It's something you could definitely consider, but I think I would honestly rather run Tezzeret the Seeker, and just tutor up [card]Cursed Totem[\card]. I've had a pretty hard line against creatures because I don't want to be in situations where I have dead cards.
Humility makes creatures worthless, Lethal Vapors makes creatures worthless, The Abyss makes creatures (at least single creatures) worthless. Do you want to cast that wrath, or save that single creature you have? Just my opinion. I much rather find options that are non-creature based to solve issues such as.
I think you are pretty spot on with your reasoning for excluding hate bears like Linvala. I have a few more creatures in my list because I don't have The Abyss, or Moat (which I've substituted with Magus of the Moat).
As for lethal vapours, I have been thinking of cutting it recently. It looks great on paper, but in reality in a 4-player game, it often reads "2BB, Random opponent skips a turn." I think that it would be amazing if not for the destroy clause, but it seems the deck is slow enough that opponents don't mind missing a turn. Maybe I'm just playing the card wrong? What would you suggest in this situation?
if you are able to generate tokens consistently, Smokestack can help clear the board. With Elspeth, Smokestack on 3 reads "I win". It might not fit this deck but still a powerful effect
I think you are pretty spot on with your reasoning for excluding hate bears like Linvala. I have a few more creatures in my list because I don't have The Abyss, or Moat (which I've substituted with Magus of the Moat).
As for lethal vapours, I have been thinking of cutting it recently. It looks great on paper, but in reality in a 4-player game, it often reads "2BB, Random opponent skips a turn." I think that it would be amazing if not for the destroy clause, but it seems the deck is slow enough that opponents don't mind missing a turn. Maybe I'm just playing the card wrong? What would you suggest in this situation?
For me, it takes a bit of time for people to really realize they have to concede a turn or find removal. Honestly, it's more than likely that people would rather look for another way to remove it, with something like Vindicate, than give up a whole turn. Maybe that's just my playgroup. Also, it sort of becomes that whole, "Well, who's going to do it?" thing.
Often times I find that people are willing to cast a creature for the ETB effect, and then let it die. Which is overall good for us, since it keeps the board clean. Even having people stall before deciding "Okay, well I guess I have to do this" or until they find removal is ultimately good for us. This deck functions a lot like a control deck, just without counterspells.
if you are able to generate tokens consistently, Smokestack can help clear the board. With Elspeth, Smokestack on 3 reads "I win". It might not fit this deck but still a powerful effect
Yeah, I would say if this deck played with more of a token theme I could definitely see myself running it. Think of Smokestack and Assemble the Legion. I've always wanted to make a more token themed version of this deck, just because tokens play so well with planeswalkers, Sliver Queen and Doubling Season; it's just a very synergistic combination of strategies. Maybe I'll write that list soon, because I haven't really had the urge to build any deck in particular but I enjoy building decks.
Is Linvala, Keeper of Silence worth considering? Most of my playgroup doesn't play black or any creature removal really, just green stuff or commanders with activated abilities. This seems like a good card to supplement artifacts like Cursed Totem, which always seem to get blown up. It's also getting reprinted in Mm17, which should bring the price down considerably.
I don't know how removal less your games really are but Platinum Angel is the nuts if it sticks on the board.
Switching out some red lands sounds like a good idea. The new cycling lands look pretty sweet.
WRT Gideon, am I missing something? He doesn't seem to do much. How often will the last ability be relevant? And aren't there several planeswalkers with similar abilities to his +1?
Well it could serve as a sort of Platinum Angel effect if it gets its emblem out and keep making it into an indestructible creature everyturn. Problem is that this combo can be countered with instant speed removal and exile effects. It does get better if you run additional Gideons though... Worst case scenario its a 4/4 indestructible creature which is not very good in edh. I dont think I'd run this...
Switching out some red lands sounds like a good idea. The new cycling lands look pretty sweet.
WRT Gideon, am I missing something? He doesn't seem to do much. How often will the last ability be relevant? And aren't there several planeswalkers with similar abilities to his +1?
I'm pretty sure Kiora, the Crashing Wave is the only one, at minus. This can be huge both early game and late game. With only one threat on the field, ensuring your planeswalkers aren't going to be blown out is a pretty big deal. Also you have to consider the fact that it's 3-mana.
Well it could serve as a sort of Platinum Angel effect if it gets its emblem out and keep making it into an indestructible creature everyturn. Problem is that this combo can be countered with instant speed removal and exile effects. It does get better if you run additional Gideons though... Worst case scenario its a 4/4 indestructible creature which is not very good in edh. I dont think I'd run this...
This makes me slightly inclined to include another Gideon or two. The 4/4 beater is just a bonus and is a nice way to put pressure on opponents.
Again, it is his plus that's such a big deal to me. Protect other planeswalkers, protect you, and protect himself when you're trying to ensure you cannot lose late game. I'll definitely be testing it.
You're right about the +1, now I'm interested. Maybe this could be a more niche pick against voltron decks and the like. The emblem is just too sweet not to try this out, and as you said, it is only 3 mana! (and in the best colour to be 1cc imo)
You're right about the +1, now I'm interested. Maybe this could be a more niche pick against voltron decks and the like. The emblem is just too sweet not to try this out, and as you said, it is only 3 mana! (and in the best colour to be 1cc imo)
Why do you think it's the best color to be 1CC?
But yeah, it deserves a spot in my opinion. Also interesting, it prevents damage from things like Ancient Tomb or Mana Crypt. While it's not necessarily a win condition like planeswalker such as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, it provides a lot of support. Consider it to be like an enchantment that locks down an creature a turn, or even more. You don't want your Karn Liberated bolted by an opposing Ugin, the Spirit Dragon now.
Also the Platinum Angel effect means a lot late game. If it's you playing the final opponent 1v1, and both of you are topdecking, this is not only going to be going in for the beats when necessary, but also ensuring you're not going to die to your Mana Crypt or Phyrexian Arena.
Also, what's nice about the various Gideon iterations is that it gets around cards like Lethal Vapors,The Abyss, and interestingly enough Humility (still fairly confused on the ruling for that, and whether or not it stays indestructible, but I know it becomes a 4/4 and reverts back).
EDIT: He keeps the indestructibility too with Humility
Turn 3 Gideon curves straight into wrath of God, humility, etc. I'd say white and green are my deepest colours, for sure. I feel the other colours are more splashable.
Overall, between this and "As Foretold", I'm pretty excited for this set.
Edit: I should mention that I only have 3 ABUR duals, and 5 fetches , so my fixing isn't as great as it could be. I have shifted my colour balance a bit to compensate.
Turn 3 Gideon curves straight into wrath of God, humility, etc. I'd say white and green are my deepest colours, for sure. I feel the other colours are more splashable.
Overall, between this and "As Foretold", I'm pretty excited for this set.
Edit: I should mention that I only have 3 ABUR duals, and 5 fetches , so my fixing isn't as great as it could be. I have shifted my colour balance a bit to compensate.
As Foretold is definitely interesting and seems like just a staple in any commander decks, probably.
I currently run 20 planeswalkers, and if I decide I want to add all three Gideon's, I may go up to 25 planeswalkers. I'll see what I think at the end of the spoilers.
Ehh indeed.. Having a board wipe on a walker is pretty nifty, and making blockers is kind of cool, but this is not super impressive.
On another note, if they keep printing planeswalkers from the Gatewatch, we may get to a point where we have too many of one type (Jace, etc.) and we'll start having to make cuts on that basis, which is a little annoying.
Ehh indeed.. Having a board wipe on a walker is pretty nifty, and making blockers is kind of cool, but this is not super impressive.
On another note, if they keep printing planeswalkers from the Gatewatch, we may get to a point where we have too many of one type (Jace, etc.) and we'll start having to make cuts on that basis, which is a little annoying.
I don't know if you use Reddit by chance, but the top post on /r/magictcg is about how Mark Rosewater said starting with the next set they are reducing the number of Gatewatch members being printed.
But definitely. I hadn't really thought of the impact of that until just now. I want to ideally keep the amount for each plansswalker to no more than 3 really.
I have seen the post you're referring to, I guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. I use reddit more than I care to admit..
I've been thinking recently about the optimal way to skew a 5-colour mana base to better optimise it compared to the non-land card suite (e.g. I want to cast Wrath of God on turn 4, and my commander on turn 5). Before adding Dack Faydan, I had very few red sources, because I only really needed red for Bolas and Obliterate.
I think this discussion may be worth having, especially for more budget-minded players. Usually, a mana base centered around green ramp with 2 additional auxiliary colours really helps ease the strain on the colour requirements. When I started, I focused on Junk colours for the boardwipes, ramp, and tutors. The idea then was to avoid cards that required more than one coloured mana with cmc<5/6 in red or blue.
I am mentioning this because the traditional approach I've seen for 5 colour decks is to add the shocks, fetches, and OG duals, and call it a day. Now, we have some more options, with more fetchable lands in White, Blue, Green, and Black introduced in BFZ and Amonkhet.
I have seen the post you're referring to, I guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. I use reddit more than I care to admit..
I've been thinking recently about the optimal way to skew a 5-colour mana base to better optimise it compared to the non-land card suite (e.g. I want to cast Wrath of God on turn 4, and my commander on turn 5). Before adding Dack Faydan, I had very few red sources, because I only really needed red for Bolas and Obliterate.
I think this discussion may be worth having, especially for more budget-minded players. Usually, a mana base centered around green ramp with 2 additional auxiliary colours really helps ease the strain on the colour requirements. When I started, I focused on Junk colours for the boardwipes, ramp, and tutors. The idea then was to avoid cards that required more than one coloured mana with cmc<5/6 in red or blue.
I am mentioning this because the traditional approach I've seen for 5 colour decks is to add the shocks, fetches, and OG duals, and call it a day. Now, we have some more options, with more fetchable lands in White, Blue, Green, and Black introduced in BFZ and Amonkhet.
Any thoughts?
Lol I think anyone who uses Reddit quickly realizes how much it consumers their lives, often times though it can be very helpful.
But I understand. For me, its WUB that is more important colors and green then red less important. I don't really ever have too many issues with fixing, to be honest, but I understand your sentiment. I like the duals coming out of Amonkhet, since they can be tutored and have additional value late game, but the BFZ lands are meh since they are pretty much ETB lands than can be tutored.
But outside of Chandra and Nissa, I don't really have any other red or black cards that require more than one of each of their mana. So yes, I'm shifting some of the red lands to the new Amonkhet lands, and if we get a full cycle I may shift even more.
The new sandwurms card looks cool. Probably too expensive, but protection + token generator + immediate 5/5 seems nifty, and Sand Wurms are too sweet not to try (we really need more Dune-themed cards).
The new sandwurms card looks cool. Probably too expensive, but protection + token generator + immediate 5/5 seems nifty, and Sand Wurms are too sweet not to try (we really need more Dune-themed cards).
Was just about to post about it:
Anyway, yeah I agree. It would be really nice to play, but 8 mana is really, really expensive.
I'm currently assembling this deck but the mana base is pretty expensive. I can afford almost every cards except the ABUR lands. I'm looking for replacements for those 10 cards. I tried the following but failed to decide.
I'm currently assembling this deck but the mana base is pretty expensive. I can afford almost every cards except the ABUR lands. I'm looking for replacements for those 10 cards. I tried the following but failed to decide.
Almost. I'm also missing Moat and a few other $100+ cards but I have decent replacements. I tried the above lands but they slow down the deck (as expected). Amonkhet lands would be a good alternative but I need to fill the remaining slots.
Yeah, I can definitely understand that.
Well, I would suggest maybe switching to Atraxa, Praetors' Voice to reduce colors, or there's a few options if you want to stick to 5-color.
I would suggest possibly running something like this:
Humility makes creatures worthless, Lethal Vapors makes creatures worthless, The Abyss makes creatures (at least single creatures) worthless. Do you want to cast that wrath, or save that single creature you have? Just my opinion. I much rather find options that are non-creature based to solve issues such as.
As for lethal vapours, I have been thinking of cutting it recently. It looks great on paper, but in reality in a 4-player game, it often reads "2BB, Random opponent skips a turn." I think that it would be amazing if not for the destroy clause, but it seems the deck is slow enough that opponents don't mind missing a turn. Maybe I'm just playing the card wrong? What would you suggest in this situation?
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
Often times I find that people are willing to cast a creature for the ETB effect, and then let it die. Which is overall good for us, since it keeps the board clean. Even having people stall before deciding "Okay, well I guess I have to do this" or until they find removal is ultimately good for us. This deck functions a lot like a control deck, just without counterspells.
Yeah, I would say if this deck played with more of a token theme I could definitely see myself running it. Think of Smokestack and Assemble the Legion. I've always wanted to make a more token themed version of this deck, just because tokens play so well with planeswalkers, Sliver Queen and Doubling Season; it's just a very synergistic combination of strategies. Maybe I'll write that list soon, because I haven't really had the urge to build any deck in particular but I enjoy building decks.
I don't know how removal less your games really are but Platinum Angel is the nuts if it sticks on the board.
This card seems great for this deck.
WRT Gideon, am I missing something? He doesn't seem to do much. How often will the last ability be relevant? And aren't there several planeswalkers with similar abilities to his +1?
This makes me slightly inclined to include another Gideon or two. The 4/4 beater is just a bonus and is a nice way to put pressure on opponents.
Again, it is his plus that's such a big deal to me. Protect other planeswalkers, protect you, and protect himself when you're trying to ensure you cannot lose late game. I'll definitely be testing it.
But yeah, it deserves a spot in my opinion. Also interesting, it prevents damage from things like Ancient Tomb or Mana Crypt. While it's not necessarily a win condition like planeswalker such as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, it provides a lot of support. Consider it to be like an enchantment that locks down an creature a turn, or even more. You don't want your Karn Liberated bolted by an opposing Ugin, the Spirit Dragon now.
Also the Platinum Angel effect means a lot late game. If it's you playing the final opponent 1v1, and both of you are topdecking, this is not only going to be going in for the beats when necessary, but also ensuring you're not going to die to your Mana Crypt or Phyrexian Arena.
Also, what's nice about the various Gideon iterations is that it gets around cards like Lethal Vapors,The Abyss, and interestingly enough Humility (still fairly confused on the ruling for that, and whether or not it stays indestructible, but I know it becomes a 4/4 and reverts back).
EDIT: He keeps the indestructibility too with Humility
Overall, between this and "As Foretold", I'm pretty excited for this set.
Edit: I should mention that I only have 3 ABUR duals, and 5 fetches , so my fixing isn't as great as it could be. I have shifted my colour balance a bit to compensate.
T1: Tundra + Mana Crypt, As Foretold just seems crazy.
Sacred Foundry -> Irrigated Farmland
Blood Crypt -> Fetid Pools
Stomping Grounds -> Scattered Groves
+ Gideon of the Trials (not too sure on what I plan on dropping)
MAYBE:
+As Foretold
+Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
+Gideon Jura
I currently run 20 planeswalkers, and if I decide I want to add all three Gideon's, I may go up to 25 planeswalkers. I'll see what I think at the end of the spoilers.
ehhh
On another note, if they keep printing planeswalkers from the Gatewatch, we may get to a point where we have too many of one type (Jace, etc.) and we'll start having to make cuts on that basis, which is a little annoying.
But definitely. I hadn't really thought of the impact of that until just now. I want to ideally keep the amount for each plansswalker to no more than 3 really.
I've been thinking recently about the optimal way to skew a 5-colour mana base to better optimise it compared to the non-land card suite (e.g. I want to cast Wrath of God on turn 4, and my commander on turn 5). Before adding Dack Faydan, I had very few red sources, because I only really needed red for Bolas and Obliterate.
I think this discussion may be worth having, especially for more budget-minded players. Usually, a mana base centered around green ramp with 2 additional auxiliary colours really helps ease the strain on the colour requirements. When I started, I focused on Junk colours for the boardwipes, ramp, and tutors. The idea then was to avoid cards that required more than one coloured mana with cmc<5/6 in red or blue.
I am mentioning this because the traditional approach I've seen for 5 colour decks is to add the shocks, fetches, and OG duals, and call it a day. Now, we have some more options, with more fetchable lands in White, Blue, Green, and Black introduced in BFZ and Amonkhet.
Any thoughts?
But I understand. For me, its WUB that is more important colors and green then red less important. I don't really ever have too many issues with fixing, to be honest, but I understand your sentiment. I like the duals coming out of Amonkhet, since they can be tutored and have additional value late game, but the BFZ lands are meh since they are pretty much ETB lands than can be tutored.
But outside of Chandra and Nissa, I don't really have any other red or black cards that require more than one of each of their mana. So yes, I'm shifting some of the red lands to the new Amonkhet lands, and if we get a full cycle I may shift even more.
Another meh for me. I wish I did like the abilities on this card, because it's an interesting design with the X cost.
Anyway, yeah I agree. It would be really nice to play, but 8 mana is really, really expensive.
Well, I would suggest maybe switching to Atraxa, Praetors' Voice to reduce colors, or there's a few options if you want to stick to 5-color.
I would suggest possibly running something like this:
10x Fetches
10x Shocks
5x Bicycles (Amonkhet Lands)
3x BFZ duals (Prarie Stream, Canopy Vista, Sunken Hollow)
1 Swamp
1 Islans
1 Plains
I would toy around something like this, but here is at least what I suggest.