As a way to help the curve a bit I plan on testing mana vault and grim monolith as we have a few planes that can untap them ( Ral Tezz and Teferi) and not enough early plays.
I will try sorin because he kills rector if needed, and the plus can be quite damaging under protection. The ult is alright, most of my wins have been from token swarm and either sorin's emblem or elspeth's.
I don't really like Chandra because all three abilities are irrelevant at 6 mana.
As a way to help the curve a bit I plan on testing mana vault and grim monolith as we have a few planes that can untap them ( Ral Tezz and Teferi) and not enough early plays.
I will try sorin because he kills rector if needed, and the plus can be quite damaging under protection. The ult is alright, most of my wins have been from token swarm and either sorin's emblem or elspeth's.
I don't really like Chandra because all three abilities are irrelevant at 6 mana.
I like Mana Vault, sort of, but I'm pretty iffy on Grim Monolith, but I think its a respectable decision. I think what I may end up doing is adding Mana Vault and maybe a Mana Crypt. My current updates for SOI are siting at:
New Jace --> Little Jace
Sorin --> Chandra
Anguished Unmaking --> Utter End
Savor the Moment --> The Chain Veil
But now that I'm looking at my list, I think might make another big change. I was thinking I have a couple "filler" planeswalker, to get to 25. I'm thinking I might move my planeswalker count to 20, which opens up 5 additional slots. I would be dropping probably Nissa, Ajani, Kiora, Gideon and I'm unsure on the last one. Maybe Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. If I did make this change, my deck would definitely be leaving behind a lot of the token swarm as a win condition, which is fine for me. I would probably add some ramp, maybe a board wipe or something like Meekstone/Ensnaring Bridge. The deck seems like it would run more efficient that way, getting rid of The Chain Veil and the unnecessary walkers. If I do make this change, at some point I'll go back to 25 planeswalkers, when more worthy planeswalkers are released.
Bridge can be good but I found that it drew me unjustified hate from creature decks. Its also counter intuitive to all the draw effects in the deck. I'm still on the fence, I'd put it in depending on the meta.
Overall I agree with your proposed changes. I'm not 100% sure about them all but they are all valid tests at least.
Bridge can be good but I found that it drew me unjustified hate from creature decks. Its also counter intuitive to all the draw effects in the deck. I'm still on the fence, I'd put it in depending on the meta.
Overall I agree with your proposed changes. I'm not 100% sure about them all but they are all valid tests at least.
Yeah, I played Bridge for awhile and it was good, but it would definitely a bad interaction with draw. It does typically shut down stuff like eldrazi, or even anything >= 7 power. Plus since I dropped Tezz it's not a good tutor, but maybe Tezz could be added back in if I end up adding more mana rocks. Although, I'll admit, I was never a huge fan of Tezz.
Here's the update I'm considering, tell me what you guys think:
+1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
+1 Savor the Moment
+1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster
+1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
+1 Anguished Unmaking
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
-1 The Chain Veil
-1 Utter End
Some weird additions, but just for testing sake. When looking for what changes to make to the deck, and considering I wanted go down to 20 walkers, I was looking for good enchantments for the deck. Then I realize that planeswalkers are virtually enchantments, and that I'll just keep the list at 25 instead of going down. Anyways, the additions that seem to stick out for me is Chandra and Ashiok. Ashiok I think might not be a bad addition for being cheap, playing into a little bit of disruption, and occasionally snagging the occasional Clever Impersonator, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, etc. Chandra I figured is just another relatively cheap draw engine, especially when coupled with something like Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top. I'm still pretty skeptical of her, though, since its not an actual draw and her plus isn't that great. Maybe Jace, Architect of Thought would be better? I'm just worried about the uniqueness ruling. I think with the added draw power, though, I can up the board wipes and push more conrol. It's something I'll be looking into.
I like Jace AoT more than Unraveler because of the wincond potential with the ult (doubling season) and the fact that he basically voids all combat damage when used with humility. I plan on keeping utter end, I removed Beast Within because the token can be problematic plus exiling is very relevant. I don't like the fact that its 4CMC though.
Let me know how ashiok works. I think the next test I will do will be to try and ramp into 5-6+ CMC planeswalker faster rather than playing low CMC subpar planes.
I like Jace AoT more than Unraveler because of the wincond potential with the ult (doubling season) and the fact that he basically voids all combat damage when used with humility. I plan on keeping utter end, I removed Beast Within because the token can be problematic plus exiling is very relevant. I don't like the fact that its 4CMC though.
Let me know how ashiok works. I think the next test I will do will be to try and ramp into 5-6+ CMC planeswalker faster rather than playing low CMC subpar planes.
I like Jace AoT, sort of, but I think Unraveler and AoT both have pretty damning ultimates. Granted, AoT's ultimate is pretty much GG. Yeah Humility + Jace AoT is pretty good stuff. I guess maybe I should reconsider AoT, potentially over Kiora? I think Kiora can be pretty decent, too, since if there's a big fatty she can lock it down. But, at the same time, 2 starting loyalty plus not being able to do anything about hexproof or something like annihilator kind of sucks. I don't know, I like that with more and more planeswalkers coming out it's getting harder to decide which ones to run. That can only be a good thing.
I think you have a good point about Utter End and Beast Within. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's pretty reasonable to never want to put a creature on your opponents board for this deck. 3 cmc is definitely a lot better, especially considering it hits lands. So I'm still considering both options.
Maybe I'll look at a list similar to what you suggested about ramping into higher cost planeswalkers. That would be a lot better for a 20 planeswalker list, versus a 25, at least for me.
Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm going back to the drawing board after you comment, it definitely made me reconsider some of what I'm doing with the list. Thanks @Yalpe!
Here's a list I made in response to what @Yaple said about ramping into higher cmc planeswalkers. I didn't really add any higher cmc planeswalker, instead I just trimmed off the cheap ones and added ramp and some removal spells. So now I kept both Utter End and Beast Within, added another wrath with Akroma's Vengeance (which takes out everything besides planeswalkers and lands), and then added more ramp with Mana Crypt, Three Visits, and Skyshroud Claim. Basically, the way I look at it, the deck is just getting more and more control oriented. Increased draw power with both Sorin, Grim Nemesis and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, and then even another extra turn card with Savor the Moment. Which, I think, is ultimately better for the deck because it means being able to lock down the board more often and ultimating planeswalkers more often. Which, I would say, a lot of our planeswalker's ultimates can win the game outright.
Which leads me to my next point: so I'm currently running Dack Fayden, who has been pretty good. Filters through your cards, snags a Sword or Sol Ring, and he's cheap. But, sometimes filtering through your cards isn't the best, and another thing is his ultimate does nothing for this deck. The only targeted spells I have are removal spells, meaning after I gain control of said permanent it is removed. What I'm trying to say is, with what @Yalpe said about Jace, AoT, do you guys think I should run should I run that Jace over Dack?
I think Dack is a meta call. In my meta, mana crypts/vaults are showing up a lot more often than before so dack's value is increasing a lot. His plus is oftentimes awkward, I agree. Especially if you are early game and low on cards. Lategame crypt/vault oftentimes can be a gilded lotus.
I'm interested in the ramp list once you're done. Mines on the last page (missing some ramp but close).
I think Dack is a meta call. In my meta, mana crypts/vaults are showing up a lot more often than before so dack's value is increasing a lot. His plus is oftentimes awkward, I agree. Especially if you are early game and low on cards. Lategame crypt/vault oftentimes can be a gilded lotus.
I'm interested in the ramp list once you're done. Mines on the last page (missing some ramp but close).
Hi there, I've been a longtime superfriends player in a casual-ish multiplayer (3-5 people) group for a number of years and this was my first deck and is my pet deck also. Here is my deck list.
I have gone through a lot of updates recently with taking considerations from both Yalpe and Trav_Ragnar so our lists look similar now. There are a couple quirks to my deck that are a little different and I wanted to talk to you guys about them. I recently wanted to try to work in Basalt Monolith for the infinite colorless combo with Rings of Brighthearth to dump infinite slivers onto the board but I notice no one else does that. Also what are your thoughts on Mirari's Wake, even if you can get one turn out of it you're reaping a lot of benefits from it plus its a must answer mana doubler.
I'd appreciate any feedback as I plan on being pretty active.
Hi there, I've been a longtime superfriends player in a casual-ish multiplayer (3-5 people) group for a number of years and this was my first deck and is my pet deck also. Here is my deck list.
I have gone through a lot of updates recently with taking considerations from both Yalpe and Trav_Ragnar so our lists look similar now. There are a couple quirks to my deck that are a little different and I wanted to talk to you guys about them. I recently wanted to try to work in Basalt Monolith for the infinite colorless combo with Rings of Brighthearth to dump infinite slivers onto the board but I notice no one else does that. Also what are your thoughts on Mirari's Wake, even if you can get one turn out of it you're reaping a lot of benefits from it plus its a must answer mana doubler.
I'd appreciate any feedback as I plan on being pretty active.
Hey! Great to add you to the thread! Yeah, as you are going through a couple updates so am I. I'm pretty consistently shifting the deck, not by too much but just trying different things occasionally.
Anyway, I tend to shy away from infinite combos in EDH. When I started playing the format I loved infinite combos, but I realized quickly that they can lead to very redundant games, often ending in said infinite combo. I also think its a lot more fun to have crazy, epic games when playing EDH, and I feel like infinite combos does not help that too much. At the same time, I don't discourage players from playing infinite combos, and I'll even give advice when I can/asked.
On Mirari's Wake, I actually played it in the first iteration of this deck (about two or so years ago). I found out quickly that it just eats removal, instantly. The way I pilot the deck is trying to stay fairly lowkey and controlly, until I have amassed some board presence with planeswalkers to start going in for the kill. This is even more so with some updates that may be coming along shortly, where I want to be playing a fairly heavy control strategy, taking out the biggest threats, until (like I said) I establish a board presence with a path to victory. Although, as I was saying earlier, I played Mirari's Wake in my earlier deck strategy because it had a little sub theme I no longer play: tokens. Sliver Queen is a token producer, Doubling Season doubles your tokens, and we have numerous planeswalkers that drop tokens. Mirari's Wake is awesome for that because it's also an anthem. Sliver Queen + Mirari's Wake is super fun, and can often take out a player or two. I don't know, maybe I'll think about adding it back in after I play test this upcoming strategy a few times.
Anyways, I definitely appreciate having more players come here and give their thoughts to the strategy. It helps the deck grow a lot.
Great deck so far, which post contains your most up-to-date incarnation as you originally intended it?
Hey, that's awesome! Below is what I'll like update the deck to as of now. Although the majority of the deck and its strategy is solidified, I'll always be tweaking nobs and such. Right now, with the release of both the new Sorin and Jace, I am pushing for more ramp and more control, and reducing my planeswalker count from 25 to 20. The ramp increase is so that I can cast larger planeswalkers, which often times help close out the game. I haven't updated the deck, or the OP, but this is likely what I'll be running for my Shadows Over Innistrad update and I'll likely make a post and update the OP this week regarding my SOI update. Anyway, here's the deck list:
Exciting developments! I'm having a hard time dropping Jace, Architect of Thought. I think this is due to recently winning two different games with a JAoT + Doubling Season explosion. Its even better when opponents have walkers too (like a Ral Zarek mwuahahhahah. I ended both of those games playing solitaire with 7-10 walkers on board until people scooped. But I admit, his +1 is weak, so is he worth keeping? IDK. At least the ultimate is timmy-rific.
Exciting developments! I'm having a hard time dropping Jace, Architect of Thought. I think this is due to recently winning two different games with a JAoT + Doubling Season explosion. Its even better when opponents have walkers too (like a Ral Zarek mwuahahhahah. I ended both of those games playing solitaire with 7-10 walkers on board until people scooped. But I admit, his +1 is weak, so is he worth keeping? IDK. At least the ultimate is timmy-rific.
Exciting developments! I'm having a hard time dropping Jace, Architect of Thought. I think this is due to recently winning two different games with a JAoT + Doubling Season explosion. Its even better when opponents have walkers too (like a Ral Zarek mwuahahhahah. I ended both of those games playing solitaire with 7-10 walkers on board until people scooped. But I admit, his +1 is weak, so is he worth keeping? IDK. At least the ultimate is timmy-rific.
Honestly, I do like Jace, AoT but I have a few things that I'm unsure about him. For one, I'm not sure what I would drop. I should note that I want to either keep my planeswalkers at 20 or 25, which means I would have to drop another planeswalker and I'm unsure which one I would drop. Secondly, even without AoT, Jace has the highest count of planeswalker type out of all my planeswalkers. I'm not too worried about running 4, maybe MAYBE even 5, but it does increase the chance of running into sticky situations. I don't know, I suppose I can think about it. I'm not a huge fan of Dack Fayden, since his ultimate is flat-out bad, but his other two abilities aren't terrible and he's the cheapest planeswalker in the deck.
So I took one last look at my updated list, and realized that I don't want to run Three Visits. I don't think I need that much ramp, and I don't want to pay $40 for a Nature's Lore
Could you guys take a look at my list and suggest a non-planeswalker card to add, that's ~2 mana:
Good suggestions. Yeah, I'm not too sure what type of card I want, but I don't think I need anymore ramp. I think I'll consider Rhystic Study and Toxic Deluge, but I'm still on the fence.
temp mastery is the best card not in the decklist for sure. Its one of the most powerful cards in my version of the deck.
Okay, so it seems like a lot of you guys are, and have been for awhile, suggesting Temporal Mastery. Here's my few concerns: I just added Savor the Moment, but I have yet to test it. Now that's obviously a debate between the two of which is better for the deck. I don't think I want to run five extra turn cards, though they work pretty good with the strategy of the deck, it's not particularly the most liked thing in the format. So, that would mean if I add Temporal I would drop Savor, but what to replace that with? Another gripe about Temporal is the occasional casting for seven, and then the exile. Savor dodges both, though can't be casted for 2, can't be casted on an opponent's turn, and also has the drawbacks built into the card.
I think there might be a difference of opinion for those who run Regrowth, Treasured Find and Yawgmoth's Will for Temporal Mastery. All that being said, I definitely need to consider the card since so many of you seem to run it and like it.
WHITE: Declaration in Stone - A piece of sorcery speed, exile removal that isn't too noteworthy, but could potentially be considered when playing against token themes. Not particularly good when compared to something like Swords to Plowshares, but it could be used depending on your meta.
Descend upon the Sinful - A new Final Judgment but with a decent upside. Prior to the rule update, this card would quickly be replaced by things such as Hallowed Burial for the versatility of tucking generals, though that no longer occurs. Instead, Descend upon the Sinful can be a decent wrath consideration since not only does it wipe the board, exiling everything, but it can potentially leave you with a 4/4 blocker for your planeswalkers and maybe even a beater.
BLUE: Jace, Unraveler of Secrets - Another Jace variant, with some pretty good abilities. Basically, the way I look at this Jace is the blue Ob Nixilis, Reignited. He's boring, but he's effective. He's sort of expensive, but not THAT expensive. He draws you cards, deals with creatures, and his ultimate is pretty back-breaking. Not only is his ultimate pretty back-breaking for your opponents, but it can be cracked off with a Doubling Season on board and he will stick afterwards. Since I'm pushing the deck into a more control playstyle he fits right in.
BLACK: (...)
RED: (...)
GREEN: (...)
MULTICOLORED: Anguished Unmaking - For those who have seen this deck from its earlier stages, you know that I love my ~3 converted mana cost removal spells. Vindicate, Beast Within, Oblation, Utter End, Chaos Warp, Maelstrom Pulse all have once had spots in this deck, or still do. Either way, Anguished Unmaking is probably one of the better ones given its cheap cost, instant speed and exile removal. Since the format can be so "Battle Cruiser"-esque, casting huge permanents like eldrazi titans or even an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, dealing with these spells can be huge, especially considering the fact that exiling them will make them unrecurrable (yes, I know, not a word).
Arlinn Kord/Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon - Just another RG planeswalker that this deck really gets no value out of. When I heard we would be getting a RG flip planeswalker this set, I was excited by the idea that maybe the planeswalker would turn into a 5/5, 6/6 beater or something along those lines and become useful. But nope, just another RG planeswalker that interacts well with creatures, which this deck runs 0 of.
Nahiri, the Harbinger - To me this planeswalker is pretty underwhelming. You have to discard first and then draw and her ultimate is almost useless for this deck. The minus ability isn't terrible, but not the greatest either.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis - I will admit I was first pretty hesitant of this planeswalker, but when I started making changes to the deck and thinking about it more, I realize that it's pretty good. First off, it comes down with 6 loyalty. That's already pretty significant. Secondly, it gives draw power, removal and lifegain in the same ability, and then a win-condition; it's all you could want for a control style deck. At the same time, I could definitely see testing proving this card to be a little worse than expected. With the deck focusing more on control, ramp, and higher converted mana cost planeswalkers, this planeswalker fits in perfect for right now.
COLORLESS: (...)
LANDS: (...)
ANNOUNCEMENT:
I first want to address the fact that the deck is going through a slightly significant change, and I would like to explain that. Prior to the update, the deck was running 25 planeswalker, some of which were often sub-par planeswalker, run for their low converted mana cost and to keep the deck at 25 planeswalkers. With this update, I am going to be trimming the deck down from 25 planeswalker to 20, trimming off the "fat" of the planeswalker. With this, the deck is slightly changing the play style, increasing the control themes of the deck. This means more focus on mass creature removal, another extra turn card, more ramp, and another tutor. This means the deck is going to work towards dropping planeswalkers and focusing on getting them to ultimate by keeping the board clear and dealing with threats. I'll also be updating the original post shortly, and also seeing if anyone wants a budget list included in the original post. Anyways, with that out of the way, here are the updates.
DECK CHANGES:
- Ajani Vengeant - One of my biggest problems with Ajani was that he wasn't particularly versatile and he was too narrow. In a multiplayer game, tapping one land down or Lightning Helixing a creature just didn't really cut it, and his ultimate, while good, just didn't go off often. Whenever I drew him I wasn't that satisfied, and found myself wanting to cast other spells.
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - Although I did like this Gideon because he was decently low converted mana cost, his abilities were pretty underwhelming. Swinging in occasionally with a 5/5 doesn't do much in EDH, especially since you typically wanted to put out 2/2's. If the deck had a more token focus, I would suggest him, but he doesn't do too much with out it.
- Jace, Architect of Thought - I really like this Jace, and I want to find a spot for him, but I'm just not sure where. Another problem going for this Jace is that he, in my opinion, is still behind the three in the deck, and playing superfriends you have to be aware of the planeswalker uniqueness rule.
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy - I also really liked this Jace, but again planeswalker uniqueness and being a creature he does a couple things. One is he takes some hoops to jump through to become a planeswalker, he effectively becomes useless with something like Humility, and lastly he just throws off the whole "no creatures" theme.
- Kiora, the Crashing Wave - Although her abilities aren't that bad, her starting loyalty kills her. I like the idea of being able to blank something, and I like being able to cast Explore, or even put out 9/9 crackens. But when you start off at 2 loyalty, your chances of doing most of that is slim.
- Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - The only thing bad about her is really her minus, and the fact she doesn't really do too much. Otherwise I like this card. Again, if your deck had a token theme, I would suggest her.
- Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - Basically a recurring problem with some of these planeswalkers is them interacting with tokens or creatures. His plus and ultimate aren't too bad, but then again, they aren't that great.
- The Chain Veil - Dropping this is probably a shocker to a lot of people, especially for those on the outside looking in or new comers. Let me explain it this way, the card is just too slow and can even hit you for 2 damage occasionally. While it does provide some awesome, and even powerful, plays, most of the other times you would rather just cast a Savor the Moment.
+ Akroma's Vengeance - A wrath that hits everything besides lands and planeswalkers, which can often times leave you with a board state completely ahead of everyone. Also it cycles to boot.
+ Enlightened Tutor - Honestly this was a flex decision, as I'm still sort of looking for what I really want to add to the deck. I figured since tutors are just so good, and one of our major cards (Doubling Season) is an enchantment, and you can even go turn one tutor for Sol Ring, testing this wouldn't be too bad.
+ Mana Crypt - Expensive addition, and maybe even unwarranted due to the life loss, but if you play with others who play this card, you will quickly realize why it needs to be added. The card makes for insane game openers. Honestly I'll admit I would run it if other people in my playgroup didn't play it or stuff like Mana Vault, but you have to fight fire with fire on this one.
+ Savor the Moment - Sort of covered above, but extra turns are just good for this deck. While I know most times you won't be able to cast into more planeswalker, what you can do is tick up to ultimate loyalty, and then take an extra turn to then ultimate. I know often times my opponents will wait to deal with a planeswalker until their loyalty is ready for ultimate, but with this you can catch them off-guard and for cheap. Obviously it's also another draw, land play, and whatever else you do with an extra turn. I think I'm open for debate right now on this versus Temporal Mastery, since so many of you like Temporal and I haven't tested this yet.
+ Skyshroud Claim - This is what is going to help the deck transition into really big spells before your opponents, and control decks need the mana to do stuff they want to.
I will try sorin because he kills rector if needed, and the plus can be quite damaging under protection. The ult is alright, most of my wins have been from token swarm and either sorin's emblem or elspeth's.
I don't really like Chandra because all three abilities are irrelevant at 6 mana.
New Jace --> Little Jace
Sorin --> Chandra
Anguished Unmaking --> Utter End
Savor the Moment --> The Chain Veil
But now that I'm looking at my list, I think might make another big change. I was thinking I have a couple "filler" planeswalker, to get to 25. I'm thinking I might move my planeswalker count to 20, which opens up 5 additional slots. I would be dropping probably Nissa, Ajani, Kiora, Gideon and I'm unsure on the last one. Maybe Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. If I did make this change, my deck would definitely be leaving behind a lot of the token swarm as a win condition, which is fine for me. I would probably add some ramp, maybe a board wipe or something like Meekstone/Ensnaring Bridge. The deck seems like it would run more efficient that way, getting rid of The Chain Veil and the unnecessary walkers. If I do make this change, at some point I'll go back to 25 planeswalkers, when more worthy planeswalkers are released.
Overall I agree with your proposed changes. I'm not 100% sure about them all but they are all valid tests at least.
+1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
+1 Savor the Moment
+1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster
+1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
+1 Anguished Unmaking
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
-1 The Chain Veil
-1 Utter End
Some weird additions, but just for testing sake. When looking for what changes to make to the deck, and considering I wanted go down to 20 walkers, I was looking for good enchantments for the deck. Then I realize that planeswalkers are virtually enchantments, and that I'll just keep the list at 25 instead of going down. Anyways, the additions that seem to stick out for me is Chandra and Ashiok. Ashiok I think might not be a bad addition for being cheap, playing into a little bit of disruption, and occasionally snagging the occasional Clever Impersonator, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, etc. Chandra I figured is just another relatively cheap draw engine, especially when coupled with something like Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top. I'm still pretty skeptical of her, though, since its not an actual draw and her plus isn't that great. Maybe Jace, Architect of Thought would be better? I'm just worried about the uniqueness ruling. I think with the added draw power, though, I can up the board wipes and push more conrol. It's something I'll be looking into.
Let me know how ashiok works. I think the next test I will do will be to try and ramp into 5-6+ CMC planeswalker faster rather than playing low CMC subpar planes.
I think you have a good point about Utter End and Beast Within. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's pretty reasonable to never want to put a creature on your opponents board for this deck. 3 cmc is definitely a lot better, especially considering it hits lands. So I'm still considering both options.
Maybe I'll look at a list similar to what you suggested about ramping into higher cost planeswalkers. That would be a lot better for a 20 planeswalker list, versus a 25, at least for me.
Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm going back to the drawing board after you comment, it definitely made me reconsider some of what I'm doing with the list. Thanks @Yalpe!
1 Sliver Queen
//Planeswalkers
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin Markov
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ral Zarek
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Sorceries
1 Austere Command
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Savor the Moment
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Treasured Find
1 Wargate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Utter End
//Enchantments
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 Oath of Jace
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 The Abyss
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Sylvan Library
1 Doubling Season
//Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
//Lands
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mana Confluence
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Kor Haven
1 Academy Ruins
1 Kher Keep
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Here's a list I made in response to what @Yaple said about ramping into higher cmc planeswalkers. I didn't really add any higher cmc planeswalker, instead I just trimmed off the cheap ones and added ramp and some removal spells. So now I kept both Utter End and Beast Within, added another wrath with Akroma's Vengeance (which takes out everything besides planeswalkers and lands), and then added more ramp with Mana Crypt, Three Visits, and Skyshroud Claim. Basically, the way I look at it, the deck is just getting more and more control oriented. Increased draw power with both Sorin, Grim Nemesis and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, and then even another extra turn card with Savor the Moment. Which, I think, is ultimately better for the deck because it means being able to lock down the board more often and ultimating planeswalkers more often. Which, I would say, a lot of our planeswalker's ultimates can win the game outright.
Which leads me to my next point: so I'm currently running Dack Fayden, who has been pretty good. Filters through your cards, snags a Sword or Sol Ring, and he's cheap. But, sometimes filtering through your cards isn't the best, and another thing is his ultimate does nothing for this deck. The only targeted spells I have are removal spells, meaning after I gain control of said permanent it is removed. What I'm trying to say is, with what @Yalpe said about Jace, AoT, do you guys think I should run should I run that Jace over Dack?
I'm interested in the ramp list once you're done. Mines on the last page (missing some ramp but close).
1 Sliver Queen
//Creatures
1 Academy Rector
//Planeswalkers
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ral Zarek
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Sorceries
1 Rout
1 Austere Command
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Temporal Trespass
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Wargate
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Capsize
1 Vampirirc Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Counterflux
//Enchantments
1 Humility
1 Rhystic Study
1 Omniscience
1 Bitterblossom
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 The Abyss
1 Sylvan Library
1 Doubling Season
1 Sterling Grove
//Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Torpor Orb
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Contagion Engine
//Lands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
and this:
http://deckstats.net/deck-9603619-77be7b00c2fe53d8ccf228dc62e78e7b.html
1 Sliver Queen
//Planeswalkers
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Dack Fayden
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Jace, Architecht of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Liliana Vess
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Ral Zarek
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
//Sorceries
1 Austere Command
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Nature's Lore
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Savor the Moment
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Tempt with Discovery
1 Terminus
1 Time Warp
1 Vindicate
1 Wargate
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Utter End
1 Vampiric Tutor
//Enchantments
1 Doubling Season
1 Humility
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Necropotence
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Sterling Grove
1 Sylvan Library
1 The Abyss
//Artifacts
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Contagion Engine
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Vault
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
//Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Torpor Orb
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Exploration
1 Jace Beleren
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Skullclamp
1 Beast Within
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Mana Crypt
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Also the list is here.
I have gone through a lot of updates recently with taking considerations from both Yalpe and Trav_Ragnar so our lists look similar now. There are a couple quirks to my deck that are a little different and I wanted to talk to you guys about them. I recently wanted to try to work in Basalt Monolith for the infinite colorless combo with Rings of Brighthearth to dump infinite slivers onto the board but I notice no one else does that. Also what are your thoughts on Mirari's Wake, even if you can get one turn out of it you're reaping a lot of benefits from it plus its a must answer mana doubler.
I'd appreciate any feedback as I plan on being pretty active.
Anyway, I tend to shy away from infinite combos in EDH. When I started playing the format I loved infinite combos, but I realized quickly that they can lead to very redundant games, often ending in said infinite combo. I also think its a lot more fun to have crazy, epic games when playing EDH, and I feel like infinite combos does not help that too much. At the same time, I don't discourage players from playing infinite combos, and I'll even give advice when I can/asked.
On Mirari's Wake, I actually played it in the first iteration of this deck (about two or so years ago). I found out quickly that it just eats removal, instantly. The way I pilot the deck is trying to stay fairly lowkey and controlly, until I have amassed some board presence with planeswalkers to start going in for the kill. This is even more so with some updates that may be coming along shortly, where I want to be playing a fairly heavy control strategy, taking out the biggest threats, until (like I said) I establish a board presence with a path to victory. Although, as I was saying earlier, I played Mirari's Wake in my earlier deck strategy because it had a little sub theme I no longer play: tokens. Sliver Queen is a token producer, Doubling Season doubles your tokens, and we have numerous planeswalkers that drop tokens. Mirari's Wake is awesome for that because it's also an anthem. Sliver Queen + Mirari's Wake is super fun, and can often take out a player or two. I don't know, maybe I'll think about adding it back in after I play test this upcoming strategy a few times.
Anyways, I definitely appreciate having more players come here and give their thoughts to the strategy. It helps the deck grow a lot.
1 Sliver Queen
//Planeswalkers
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin Markov
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ral Zarek
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Sorceries
1 Austere Command
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Savor the Moment
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Treasured Find
1 Wargate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Utter End
//Enchantments
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 Oath of Jace
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 The Abyss
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Sylvan Library
1 Doubling Season
//Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
//Lands
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mana Confluence
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Kor Haven
1 Academy Ruins
1 Kher Keep
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
he's also great with humility
Do you have a list by chance?
Could you guys take a look at my list and suggest a non-planeswalker card to add, that's ~2 mana:
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin Markov
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ral Zarek
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
//Sorceries
1 Austere Command
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Savor the Moment
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Treasured Find
1 Wargate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Utter End
//Enchantments
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 Oath of Jace
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 The Abyss
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Sylvan Library
1 Doubling Season
//Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
//Lands
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mana Confluence
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Kor Haven
1 Academy Ruins
1 Kher Keep
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
Okay, so it seems like a lot of you guys are, and have been for awhile, suggesting Temporal Mastery. Here's my few concerns: I just added Savor the Moment, but I have yet to test it. Now that's obviously a debate between the two of which is better for the deck. I don't think I want to run five extra turn cards, though they work pretty good with the strategy of the deck, it's not particularly the most liked thing in the format. So, that would mean if I add Temporal I would drop Savor, but what to replace that with? Another gripe about Temporal is the occasional casting for seven, and then the exile. Savor dodges both, though can't be casted for 2, can't be casted on an opponent's turn, and also has the drawbacks built into the card.
I think there might be a difference of opinion for those who run Regrowth, Treasured Find and Yawgmoth's Will for Temporal Mastery. All that being said, I definitely need to consider the card since so many of you seem to run it and like it.
WHITE:
Declaration in Stone - A piece of sorcery speed, exile removal that isn't too noteworthy, but could potentially be considered when playing against token themes. Not particularly good when compared to something like Swords to Plowshares, but it could be used depending on your meta.
Descend upon the Sinful - A new Final Judgment but with a decent upside. Prior to the rule update, this card would quickly be replaced by things such as Hallowed Burial for the versatility of tucking generals, though that no longer occurs. Instead, Descend upon the Sinful can be a decent wrath consideration since not only does it wipe the board, exiling everything, but it can potentially leave you with a 4/4 blocker for your planeswalkers and maybe even a beater.
BLUE:
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets - Another Jace variant, with some pretty good abilities. Basically, the way I look at this Jace is the blue Ob Nixilis, Reignited. He's boring, but he's effective. He's sort of expensive, but not THAT expensive. He draws you cards, deals with creatures, and his ultimate is pretty back-breaking. Not only is his ultimate pretty back-breaking for your opponents, but it can be cracked off with a Doubling Season on board and he will stick afterwards. Since I'm pushing the deck into a more control playstyle he fits right in.
BLACK:
(...)
RED:
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GREEN:
(...)
MULTICOLORED:
Anguished Unmaking - For those who have seen this deck from its earlier stages, you know that I love my ~3 converted mana cost removal spells. Vindicate, Beast Within, Oblation, Utter End, Chaos Warp, Maelstrom Pulse all have once had spots in this deck, or still do. Either way, Anguished Unmaking is probably one of the better ones given its cheap cost, instant speed and exile removal. Since the format can be so "Battle Cruiser"-esque, casting huge permanents like eldrazi titans or even an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, dealing with these spells can be huge, especially considering the fact that exiling them will make them unrecurrable (yes, I know, not a word).
Arlinn Kord/Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon - Just another RG planeswalker that this deck really gets no value out of. When I heard we would be getting a RG flip planeswalker this set, I was excited by the idea that maybe the planeswalker would turn into a 5/5, 6/6 beater or something along those lines and become useful. But nope, just another RG planeswalker that interacts well with creatures, which this deck runs 0 of.
Nahiri, the Harbinger - To me this planeswalker is pretty underwhelming. You have to discard first and then draw and her ultimate is almost useless for this deck. The minus ability isn't terrible, but not the greatest either.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis - I will admit I was first pretty hesitant of this planeswalker, but when I started making changes to the deck and thinking about it more, I realize that it's pretty good. First off, it comes down with 6 loyalty. That's already pretty significant. Secondly, it gives draw power, removal and lifegain in the same ability, and then a win-condition; it's all you could want for a control style deck. At the same time, I could definitely see testing proving this card to be a little worse than expected. With the deck focusing more on control, ramp, and higher converted mana cost planeswalkers, this planeswalker fits in perfect for right now.
COLORLESS:
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LANDS:
(...)
ANNOUNCEMENT:
I first want to address the fact that the deck is going through a slightly significant change, and I would like to explain that. Prior to the update, the deck was running 25 planeswalker, some of which were often sub-par planeswalker, run for their low converted mana cost and to keep the deck at 25 planeswalkers. With this update, I am going to be trimming the deck down from 25 planeswalker to 20, trimming off the "fat" of the planeswalker. With this, the deck is slightly changing the play style, increasing the control themes of the deck. This means more focus on mass creature removal, another extra turn card, more ramp, and another tutor. This means the deck is going to work towards dropping planeswalkers and focusing on getting them to ultimate by keeping the board clear and dealing with threats. I'll also be updating the original post shortly, and also seeing if anyone wants a budget list included in the original post. Anyways, with that out of the way, here are the updates.
DECK CHANGES: