All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
This deck exists to cast a very early Maelstrom Wanderer and enjoy the ensuing chaos. This went from being a whimsical joke deck to being ultra-competitive once it was realized just how quickly he can wander in from the command zone and bring his powerful friends along. There are a lot of powerful spells just hanging around in the Maelstrom, and he wanders by them all and invites them to come back with him. High in power and fun, this is probably at this point in time my all-time favorite EDH deck.
While we may lack the versatility and resiliency of some other decks, the raw freight-train of power and wacky random fun make this deck rewarding and worthwhile.
What are we doing here?
Put your hands down, this is not an existential musing about our existence or (in)significance, simply a fun summary of why this deck may interest you. When I first looked at this particular tri-color "shard", it stood out to me that Riku of Two Reflections was clearly the go-to commander for EDH. A slightly high, but manageable CMC, two crazy powerful abilities, and a world of synergy at his fingertips, Riku casts a long shadow across the RUG (pun obviously intended). So I set out to put together a solid Riku list and acquire the parts necessary to build a prototype. My brother stumbled across the ol' Maelstrom Wanderer during this time, and once he showed me, there was a definite need to make a pet deck out of him (Maelstrom Wanderer, not my brother #ambiguousmodifiers). But still, before I spend my money on my pet decks, I like to finish off my competitive decks first. We got an invitation from our friend Greg, with whom we used to play competitive (typically standard) Magic, to get away for a fun EDH weekend, and it was too much to pass up. As we busted out our compilation of decks, we saw he had a Maelstrom Wanderer build put together, so my brother jumped at the chance to pilot the deck, since ours was no more than a vision at the time. We shuffled up, cut, and before I untapped for turn 4 with my mono Chainer build, Maelstrom Wanderer had stopped by with his friends and wiped out the entire table. While that version of the deck is not the same one you see me posting today, nor is Greg's still the same, it was that realization of wild power that lead to the months turning into years of extensive tuning to give us the list I present today. The goal remains the same: make it faster, make it more consistent, make it more resilient.
No doubt this deck can always completely flop on its face, even with a perfect draw. You can run out a turn 2 Maelstrom Wanderer, flip a Somberwald Sage and a Fyndhorn Elder, eat a Damnation and be left with no board and no hand. It happens. It happens a lot more rarely now than when the deck started. We have gotten the build consistent and deadly enough that it is typically arch enemy before a card has been drawn or a die has been rolled. There are exceptions. It is not more consistent or devastating than the brilliant Edric, Spymaster of Trest. It doesn't have the control or versatility of Zur the Enchanter, or the inevitability of Thada Adel, Acquisitor. But this is a deck that must be reckoned with at the most powerful circles, and if it is not jabbed through the heart and finished, can win out of nowhere.
The premise is very simple: put as much quality ramp as possible into the deck (ideally land ramp, as it maintains efficacy through inevitable board wipes), split that with cards that crush souls when flipped off of the Wanderer, fill in the rest with cards that add resilience and synergy, and sit back and watch the madness unfold.
This deck has some definite strong points:
Very fast. This list is able to consistently Wander on turn four. Often the game ends that turn. Usually if not that, the turn after (depending on resistance).
Crazy good in top deck mode: a high percentage of the list is bomb cards, and we thin lands out so efficiently, we feast off of the top of the deck
Tons of fun to play. Once the deck takes off, the options for what to do on your turn are nearly limitless. Ever flipped a Food Chain off of a Maelstrom Wanderer? Try it, and 15-20 spells later when you mercifully end the game, don't forget to wipe the stupid grin off of your face.
Competitive. This seemed far fetched in the early stages, but a tuned MW list can compete with anything.
Versatile Win-Cons. You can win the game so many different ways. And not just with different cards, but you can go from Voltron kills to straight aggro, to pseudo-combo, to "I keep taking turns until the game is over"
Good against counter-magic. While our opponents can pick which guys to counter, "cascade, cascade" happens regardless of the resolution of our commander.
Likewise, this deck has a lot of flaws and weaknesses:
Can randomly just fizzle. As I pointed out in an example earlier, when you are capitalizing on fun randomness, sometimes it comes back to nip you in the tush. If you can't stand losing to "bad luck", stay away from this deck!
Somewhat of a glass cannon. Although very powerful, this deck can really wilt under targeted hate. It wins off of the top incredibly well if left alone after being snipped, but if the hate is followed with pressure, we tend to lose.
Difficult to pilot. While this can be a pro or con, and while the deck can just win by itself, you have to make a lot of calculations and weigh risk/reward strategies to consistently succeed against other top tier decks. I personally view this as a strength of the deck, but I know a lot of people will dislike this aspect.
Requires you to play red. Gross.
Reliant on expensive cards. This is a really big prohibitive factor. If your meta is not ultra-competitive, you can get by with a budget version, but understand that the truly scary starts involve the truly expensive cards like Mana Crypt or multiple fetch lands into dual lands with Lotus Cobra and the like.
Difficult mulligan decisions. The changing of the mulligan rule turned this on its head. Used to be easy, now require lots of calculations.
There are a lot of double-edge sword qualities to this deck, but you will win a lot of games in incredibly fun fashion if you try a similar build to this. This is one of my decks that no one at the local shop agrees to play against unless they are borrowing one of my other decks in this category. In my other, more competitive meta, this deck holds its own and wins a fair percentage of games going up against fully optimized lists of very frightening commanders. On to the deck, eh?
Packages: (useful for understanding some of the terminology we use in the discussion, as well as how to remove/insert chunks of cards effectively into your build)
Tooth and Nail: The TnN package typically goes with one of a few finishes depending on the surrounding deck construction.
Avenger/Hoof: (Avenger of Zendikar/Craterhoof Behemoth) to create a giant, hasty, trampling army and strike the board. This is stronger in our deck than most, because Wanderer grants all of our creatures haste, so we can alpha strike off of the TnN turn. What's nice here is that there is a good argument for both cards being in the deck outside of simply the combo finish, meaning fewer dead "oh look, half of my combo, it will catch my tears as I die" draws.
Another prevalent package is Kiki/Conscripts (Kiki Jiki/Zealous Conscripts) to create an infinite army of 3/3s. To make this route work, Conscripts trigger targets Kiki Jiki, gaining control of (whatever *eye roll*) and untapping (Ah!) Kiki, who then retaps to copy Conscripts ad infinitum. The downside here is that, while good in tandem, I don't like either of these cards for the deck based off of just their own merit.
Deadeye/Palinchron is a favorite infinite mana combo. For quite some time I played under the impression that you could then blink Deadeye, souldbond him to Wanderer, blink Wanderer, use the replacement effect to take him to the command zone, and recast him to cascade the entire deck. As it turns out, that doesn't work (sad face). He is brought back from the command zone as per the resolution of the ability.
Notable exceptions to the man ramp plan include Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Somberwald Sage, and Joraga Treespeaker, as they all perform either a different function or simply at a higher level. This guys should be auto-includes, even if you go with the "Rampant Growth/Spell Ramp" plan.
Notable exceptions to this plan include our four mana ramps spells, who may seem like they would be included given that they are, indeed spell ramp, but serve an entirely different function in the deck.
Landfall: The landfall package includes Rampaging Baloths, Roil Elemental, Boundless Realms, and debatably Avenger of Zendikar. These guys do not function much on their own, and are here to take advantage of our fetch land suite and the fact that we cascade/draw into plenty of land search spells, and they work to gain value out of our early-game ramp when presented in the late game. I am of the opinion that Avenger of Zendikar is strong enough in his own right to be excluded from being lumped in here, but others may disagree.
Notable exceptions include: Lotus Cobra, who is himself an early-game ramp spell, and is not here to gain value late-game, and arguable Avenger of Zendikar, who is a house even by himself.
DEN: The DEN package includes (obviously) Deadeye Navigator, along with his payoff buddies Palinchron and Brutalizer Exarch. While DEN himself work with multiple other cards in the deck, these guys come or go in tow with him, whereas the other cards that work with him are there for other reasons.
Godo: The Godo package revolves around Godo, Bandit Warlord. If it weren't for Godo, I don't know if I would find space for Sword of Feast and Famine or Sword of Fire and Ice, because, while they are both good, and at times spectacular in their own right, I don't think they quite fit the streamlined version of what this deck is trying to do by themselves.
Notable exception to this is Phyrexian Metamorph. Do not lump this hoss in with Image. The ability to copy artifacts is just too nuts. If aaaaaanybody gets Sol Ring or Crypt, so do we. If anyone turbos out a Gilded Lotus or Thran Dynamo, so do we. If anyone drops a quick Terastadon or Sylvan Primordial so do we. Saucy!
The Fetches are pretty simple: run all of them that you can. They enable the deck to do almost everything it strives for: produce by turn 3 for fast Wanderers, they double-trigger landfall, and they enable us to keep a high quantity of forests in play to power super-ramp guys like Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary (who shamefully I do not have yet). In fact, in writing this I realize that I need to add my Bloodstained Mire to the list. The fetches get quite silly with any of the landfall guys (Lotus Cobra, Rampaging Baloths, Roil Elemental, Avenger of Zendikar) plus Oracle of Mul Daya, whether you are ramping for a Wanderer with Lotus Cobra or trying to put people away with the likes of Roil Elemental, Rampaging Baloths, or the mighty Avenger of Zendikar.
As for the fetchable duals (Tropical Island, Volcanic Island, Taiga, Breeding Pool, Steam Vents, Stomping Ground), these cards are the absolute tops. In instances in which you don't need the mana immediately, you find the shocks. If you do need the mana immediately, you find the original duals. These guys are extremely important to our game plan, and allow us to get color fixing from cards that search for Forests, as well as interact profitably with cards like the aforementioned Rofellos.
The other non-basic lands (NBLs) are actually a category where I am very interested in where the forum conversation might take this deck. I want to keep the basic count as high as possible without sacrificing the ability to hit all my colors with extreme consistency. Thus far I have run into almost no trouble whatsoever with color-fixing, but I am always open to new, better suggestions, or perhaps cutting the NBLs I have completely out in favor of the basics. Right now, aside from Command Tower and Ancient Tomb (um, Mana Crypt on a land? Hellz yeah) my choices are entirely arbitrary. Very interested in the comments in this regard.
Note: I have flirted with Ancient Ziggurat, but it always seems a little on the cute side, to where it will hurt us when we are trying to make non-Maelstrom plays. It is still on the edge of my mind, though. May test it.
As for the basics, the high forest count reflects the importance in fixing that green represents for us. If we can access just one of our colors early, it is assuredly green, as many of our green spells find lands or can add mana of any color to our mana pool (Lotus Cobra). Green gives us seven spells capable of finding early fixing, and many more that enable us to ramp into other cards (such as Gilded Lotus) that provide fixing.
After green, blue is the second most important color. We often need :symu::symu: to hard-cast our card draw spells, or, in the case of the Future Sight twins, is required. The green ramp and blue card draw are the two main factors that keep this deck running, and that reflects in our basic land spread. The two mountains are there so that we can avoid being completely shut down by Back to Basics and NBL hate. Since we have a number of means of finding basic lands, we are surprisingly resilient under conditions of NBL hate.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE SUGGESTIONS FOR HOW TO HASH OUT MY "OTHER NBL" MANABASE? I AM WINGING IT AT THE MOMENT. I definitely want to keep my basic count high, especially the Forest count (see Rofellos, "Forest" search spells), but aside from some vague ideas, I am pretty lost and overwhelmed. The mana base has held up well so far over the year+ of testing and modification, but such a delicate balance is never complete, and "sufficient" does not make me as happy as "optimal".
Overview: This deck is looking to ramp into a back-breakingly early Maelstrom Wanderer. Because of this, we are looking for ramp spells that take the most turns off of the otherwise eight turn countdown. We have tons of great options at and which take 2-3 turns off of the clock. Because of the abundance of three and four mana quality ramp spells, and the slim pickings on quality one and two mana ramp spells (I don't like the Birds of Paradise or Rampant Growth effects), the most valuable ramp guys to draw are the turn one and turn two guys we play who scale over the course of the game. I don't like the guys who tap for only , as they don't take enough turns off of the clock. The value they do bring is in enabling the ramp spells a turn earlier. The problem I have with this, is that trying to construct a perfect curve in a 99 card deck seems generally folly, and it forces us to dilute our deck far too much with garbage cards. Along the same vein, the Rampant Growth effects are likewise off the table for not providing enough of a boost to warrant their inclusion. So we are typically trying to mulligan into a t1-t2 ramp spell plus a or ramp spell. This enables lots of t4 or earlier Wanderers, and should be the primary objective of our opening hands. Have faith in the Wanderer to bring in friends to reload and threaten, focus on helping him wander his way onto the table as early as possible.
The first three artifacts go without saying in my mind. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are simply the best, and belong in every deck. I guess I can spare some time to discuss Mana Vault, as it does not belong in every deck. Since our primary concern is firing off as fast of a Maelstrom Wanderer as possible, the untap clause of Mana Vault is not really of much concern to us. For our purposes, this is a colorless, tutorable dark ritual on a stick. Pretty ill. While they are few and far between, I actually have run into a few scenarios in which I bothered to untap the Vault. Typically this means that the game is not going our way, however, as most often we leave it tapped because we are winning through aggression, or we have business spells to play and cannot afford the upkeep mana due to tempo. But rare draws have seen me run out a t1 Vault into a t2 ramp guy into t3 upkeep Vault untap to prepare for a t4 Wanderer. [/rambling]
Carpet of Flowers is conditional, but against a table of top tier decks will almost always be Sol Ring or better by the time we need to Wander. Exactly what we are looking for.
Joraga Treespeaker is nice, in that he has the effect of our ramp guys but becomes active on turn 2. The ability to split up his cost goes the extra mile for us, and gets him into that coveted t1-t2 ramp slot. However, while he does occupy that prime real estate, he occupies allll of it. So while you can still cast more spells after leveling him up on turn two, he can lead to some clunky draws where it is annoying to have to devote two turns to him.
Grim Monolith is where it's at. This comes down turn one or two, gives us + , and is just the best thing. Love this card.
Lotus Cobra is easily on the short list of best cards in this deck. He enables so many early shenanigans, and is our best-bet for a t3 or the rarer t2 Maelstrom Wanderer. This guys is crazy synergistic with our suite of fetch lands, and he gives us value back on our land grabbing spells. A Skyshroud Claim with this fellow in play is not only free, but it filters our mana into of any color (two duals and two hits off of Cobra). I would never have imagined all the scenarios in which Cobra enabled us to go nuts if I had not actually tested him in the deck. This guy is money!
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary is a investment who taps for on turn 3. Pretty darn bananas. It is very easy for us to get a big forest count early, and he scales well into the late game! SO good! He comes down in the ultra-important t1-t2 ramp stage, and he taps for by the time he is active. This is exactly what the deck needs in the early stages, and the fact that he scales so well is just icing on the cake. Nuts good card.
We are going to cover Overgrowth, Nantuko Elder, Fyndhorn Elder, and Greenweaver Druid all as one. While these guys do have subtle differences, they are all here for the exact same function: 3 mana permanent that take 2 turns off of the Maelstrom clock. Harmless-looking and efficient, the density of these nearly identical effects is what makes this deck consistent.
Somberwald Sage manages to get his own segment away from the other similar characters in that he adds a ridiculous , and it's of any color. While his mana can only be used for creatures, thus cutting into his versatility, this is crazy-good and ramping out Maelstrom Wander. Very good at getting down a Wanderer, very annoying when casting draw spells to reload. Still, rarely does a turn go by in which he is not useful. His upside far outweighs the downside.
Coalition Relic is a very powerful card that allows us to ramp of any color on a given turn. This is amazing at getting the Wanderer out quickly, although is a bit annoying the turn after, since you don't get a charge counter. Still, fantastic card.
Basalt Monolith is like the other ramp guys, except he taps for . Really nutty good. In a Mana Vaultesque manner, this little fellow has to have an investment paid to untap him, but unlike the Vault, it is at lesser of a tempo loss, and can be done at any time. (I will not say at no tempo loss, because if you untap it the turn you use it, you are not generating any value, you are simply transforming colored mana into colorless mana, which is typically fairly silly)
Worn Powerstone is the weakest of the bunch. Still does the same effect, tapping for and costing , but this guy enters tapped, so whereas with a Wanderer in play, the creatures tap for mana immediately, this guy needs a turn to come online. Still, this is the bread and butter we look for in this deck. True salt-of-the-Earth style card for our purposes.
Oracle of Mul Daya is a card that needs no introduction for players who have used it. It reads like a powerful card, and performs better than it reads. Lands off the top to fix draws, multiple activations of landfall, ramp, etc. Very much beastly.
Garruk Wildspeaker adds an additional each turn, including the turn he hits play. Even crazier with Overgrowth. This is a very blue collar card for us, who comes down t3, +1s to keep us going, +1s again on t4 to enable a Wanderer, then t5 ends games with his overrun effect (while staying alive to boot).
Skyshroud Claim, Ranger's Path, Explosive Vegetation, and Hunting Wilds can be covered as one unit. While less explosive than their turn three +2 mana brethren, these guys have the benefit of not dying to board sweepers, and adding resiliency past the initial casting of Wanderer. They activate landfall and fix colors. The ones that say "forest" find duals, and the ones that say "basic lands" fix with basics and find our colors through NBL hate. These are fantastic, and the number of landfall triggers in the deck make these effects good to hit off of the Wanderer (Roil Elemental in play, fetch for turn, then one of these guys lets you steal the best 4 creatures on the board or simply clear our blockers).
GOOD PEOPLE OF THE FORUMS, AM I MISSING ANY QUALITY RAMP??? I am greedy, and do not want to miss out on any cards that may help our collective deckbuilding. Even if I end up not agreeing that it makes the cut, I really appreciate any and all suggestions that can be made toward the betterment of this deck. I am only one man, and while I browse your collective works for inspiration, I still miss lots of great ideas, whether they are card ideas, quality interactions, or slick plays that do not always meet the eye. So while this is a seemingly random spot in the middle of my ramblings, I want to point out my pre-emptive appreciation for all of the help.
So for me, this is easily the most difficult part of the deck, philosophically. On paper, to me this deck is (roughly) 1/3 land, 1/3 ramp, 1/3 bombs. While that is a fun idea, it has not made for an optimized list. There are certain things decks need access to, and plenty of "role player" cards that, when combined with the rest of the deck, are much more than the sum of the parts. I want to keep this part of the list lean and tight, to enable as much ramping and bombing as possible.
Mana Drain will be cut once I acquire some of the cards I need for the deck. I loved the idea: add a versatile "catch all" answer card which is still useful when cascaded. But the more I test this card, the more I realize I almost never want to Drain my Maelstrom Wanderer, because too often I want to be attacking with haste. I never want to keep Drain in an opening hand, because it is neither ramp, land, nor card draw. I don't want to sit around with mana open and play defense, because the whole deck is offensive fire power. Just not a good fit.
Oblivion Stone annoys me that it needs to be here, but it needs to be here. We can't rely on winning every game in the first couple turns. We need access to this. It is really annoying that Thada Adel, Acquisitor snags this from us at will, though...
Sword of Feast and Famine does what Sword of Feast and Famine does. This deck turbos out lands, and with the card draw density, is only constrained by how much mana it can produce. This ends games.
Sword of Fire and Ice is not at its best in this deck, but it is A) Always good B) Functions off of Godo, Bandit Warlord and C) Provides us with resiliency by enabling our mana dorks to become card draw engines when the chips are down. Don't sleep on SwoFI just because it's better in a Rafiq deck.
Eternal Witness is crazy versatile and an amazing in EDH. In our deck, however, it has roughly one function: get back extra turn spells. While we don't use it to its full versatility, it is probably more back breaking in our deck than most, even with nearly-singular function. And then there comes the fact that, again, when the chips are down, he gets back our Concentrate to get us back into the game. This card is too good to exclude in decks that produce
Archaeomancer is a 4cmc, blue, narrower version of E-Witness. I shall not mince words. This is the lesser of two witnesses.
Glen Elendra Archmage is in the running for "most devastating card for the guy who is winning to possess". We are frontrunners. This is the frontrunner card. Just bonkers to have in play, and about the only reason to ever leave mana open with our game plan. Even if our opponents manage to wipe us through this guy, it means they spent all their resources and three must-counter cards to deal with our board, meaning we get to reload with our powerful draw spells without fear of resistance from the peanut gallery.
Terastadon seems like an odd card to have listed under "utility spells". I hear you. It really does. But this cannot be cascaded into, and what it does is provide us the versatility to deal with threats or end games in decisive and devastating manner. We create the mana to hard cast this puppy on turn 3. We have clone effects. The big scare here, is that our opponents cast clone effects, too. This guy is best reserved for the turn on which you are trying to win. Don't let him get turned against you.
AM I EITHER OVER OR UNDER COMMITING TO VERSATILITY? ARE MY CHOICES OR REASONING SUSPECT? LET ME KNOW! Mana Drain is already on the way out. Cards like Oblivion Stone, Glen Elendra Archmage, and Terastadon I like, are good, but are also potentially cuttable for various reasons. If I need space, I could conceivably cut Godo and the Sword package. Any thoughts or ideas?
Food Chain is the only card in the deck that may win a higher percentage of games upon resolution than Time Stretch. The game ends the turn this hits play such an astronomically high percentage of the time, saying "nearly 100%" is not hyperbole. It caaaaaaan happen. Theoretically. One guy may be holding Krosan Grip with open or some other weird thing, but holy cow. Exile Maelstrom Wanderer for of any color, recast Maelstrom Wanderer. Exile Maelstrom Wanderer and a mana dork, recast Maelstrom Wanderer. Cascade into Molten Primordial? Beat face, then second main phase exile Molten Primordial for of any color, our opponents creatures for whatever their CMC +1 is, and Maelstron Wanderer, wash, rinse, repeat. You will hit extra turn spells. You will recur them. This simply ends games. But get a pen and paper ready to keep track of the mana.
Fact or Fiction is fun in that it doubles as a payoff spell and an easy to cast, versatile draw spell early. This card is great. We dig 5 deep for that one card we need, we utilize our bin fairly well, so the dumped cards are rarely lost for good, and it simply creates card advantage. Only single in the casting cost, so it is easy on our mana base. Bread and butter type of card. Good stuff.
Rite of Replication is super-nuts for a number of reasons. First off, it "all" it is is a clone spell, so be it. However, we can kick it off of cascade aaaaaand once we stumble across E-Witness or Archaeomancer it becomes recursive (copy the Witness 5 times, get back Rite of Rep plus four other cards). If there is also an extra turn spell, we go infinite on turns. Or we just draw into it and get five extra primordials. Or now we have 6 Rampaging Baloths or 6 Avenger of Zenikars, which means 6 instances of landfall.
Concentrate and its color-shifted cousin Harmonize are two more cards whose descriptions are very similar to Fact or Fiction. These are both quality off of cascade, or can simply be hard cast at any point in the game. These are also on the short list of spells that we at times keep in your opening hand that do not tap for mana or search for lands.
Natural Order is extremely powerful, but also one of our spells that can whiff off of cascade. The cascade triggers resolve before Maelstrom Wanderer, so we cannot sac the commander to Natural Order. However, we run a very high density of mana dorks, so this is still a high-percentage cascade. On top of which, for some ridiculous reason, it only costs four mana, so we can just hard cast this at any time. This versatility is nice, because drawing into it with Wanderer in play means we can sac him and cascade some more, on top of fetching a nasty brute or timely Eternal Witness. Another game ender.
Time Warp, Temporal Manipulation, Walk the Aeons, and Temporal Mastery can be covered together in one paragraph. The thing is, when you take extra turns in this deck, your opponents do not live. Maelstrom Wanderer alone kills someone in three hits, so the rest of your army gets to focus on somebody else. These cascade well, and Time Warp and Tempy Nips cast easily. Walk the Aeons is tougher on the mana base, but there will be occasions in which the buyback wins games. We can pay buyback costs off of a cascaded spell, so keep that in the ol' noggin. Mastery is easily the worst of these spells, but on rare occasion we get to miracle it (and I mean rare), and regardless of the 7cmc, still cascades off of the Wanderer.
Future Sight and Magus of the Future are bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S. Bad Gwen Stefani jokes aside, these guys absolutely wreck face. The enchantment version hold the advantage of being harder to get rid of, the man version has the advantage of being tutorable and removable to/playable with Food Chain. With the mana we can produce, it is easy to play off of the top of our deck for a very long time. Additionally, uncracked fetch lands leave us an open shuffle in case we hit lands, as do any of our land-search spells that may find their way into our hand. Not quiiiiiiite game enders, but they often can end the game the turn they hit play, and almost always will within 2-3 turns. Even when they don't straight up end the game, these two create major advantage that is often extremely difficult to undo.
Tidings. Ho hum. Big draw spell. Castable from hand. Moving forward.
Garruk, Primal Hunter typically draws us seven cards. That is very good. We hate when someone responds to the draw ability with spot removal, but it is a risk well worth taking. When cast from hand he tends to be weaker, but even if he is only drawing 3 cards, this is the type of spell that keeps us moving forward and plugging along.
Rampaging Baloths is one of our landfall based payoff guys. This gent makes an awful lot of 4/4s, and turns our inevitable later-game "find two land" spells into a deadly army. Add in haste from Maelstrom Wanderer and he kills very fast. And once in a rare while you will get to cast Boundless Realms with him in play. Like an alarm clock, w00t w00t!
Recurring Insight is one of the crazier draw spells for EDH. People keep full grips, son. Cast it from your hand and enjoy the rebound. Hit it off cascade, and while you don't rebound, you draw a ton of cards for free. This guy tends to draw counters. Might just be bad luck, but I see this get countered a LOT.
Godo, Bandit Bad Ass is a scary sight to stare down. He brings Feast and Famine with him, he swings twice, he is fun to exile with Food Chain, he leaves behind a nasty gift if he gets removed (the aformentioned sword), and he means your lands all untap (again, the sword). This is all grade A, quality beef. Throw him on the grill and watch him sizzle. Man, I'm getting kinda tired
Roil Elemental is another of our payoff guys who feasts off of our otherwise neutered land fetch spells in the mid game. Steals people. Maelstrom Wanderer means people have haste. This guy is fragile. He is a removal magnet. However, you can also put him to good political use by stealing from the opponents of the most likely guy to have spot removal. And if he goes unanswered, he single-handedly wins games. Please, please cast Consecrated Sphinx
Tooth and Nail is pretty ballin'. Can be entwined off of cascade, wins the game when entwined. Can be hard cast with entwine, wins the game when entwined. My build goes the Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth route for victory. Some play Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts. To each his own. In my build Avenger/Hoof is stronger because they operate better for me independently (Hoof is good with mana dorks).
Sylvan Primordial has actually been quite disappointing so far. It's not that it isn't good --it always is-- but I always want it to be a game winner or a blow out card, and it never is. Incremental advantage is good, and again, this adds versatility with its disruption and resiliency by finding forests (meaning dual lands, often).
Molten Primordial is far better for us than he looks on paper. This is just the type of deck where cards like this excel. Fast, out-of-nowhere damage, splashy, sexy, blow out plays... if you are looking at this inclusion with a puzzled expression, I implore you to test him out before passing judgement. This card is very rarely disappointing, and leads to very huge blow out plays. Insaaaaaane with Food Chain or if you are running Greater Good.
Sphinx of Uthuun is Fact or Fiction on a large, evasive body. This is one of the few decks I play in which incremental combat damage can end games, so the 5 power of flying damage is surprisingly relevant. This is also another way to keep our card draw density super-high so that we just keep gaining momentum.
Avenger of Zendikar is probably the finisher of choice in this deck. Splashy, powerful, sexy, utilizes landfall, and excels with a high land count in play. This guy does all the stuff. Packs a powerful body, and interacts very will with Garruk Wildspeaker and Craterhoof Behemoth. The haste of of Maelstrom Wander makes this guy a nightmare for our opponents.
Knowledge Exploitation find our opponents' Time Stretches. This is an A+ card in a meta full of Stretches. This is a B maybe B+ card in a meta full of Time Warps but not Stretches. This is an over-costed hunk of garbage in most other metas. This is only in my list because of all of the extra turn spells that see play. Adjust your list accordingly. But for Time Stretch alongside the fact that this means your deck packs an extra Time Stretch makes this card pure insanity. (note: if your opponent is also playing Knowledge Exploitation, you often want to hit their Exploitation with your Exploitation, then use their Exploitation to find their Time Stretch. This prevents them from doing it back to you. Additionally, if you know opponents A and B are both playing Exploitation, use yours to find player A's to find player B's to find Time Stretch. This does leave open Graveyard shenanigans. But then again, you just cast Time Stretch)
Craterhoof Behemoth comes down and wins games. Crazy, crazy pump effect. Very good with mana dorks, very good with Avenger of Zendikar, very good with Tooth and Nail, very good with Tooth and Nail and Avenger of Zendikar.
Boundless Realms was in an earlier build of this deck, but was cut for... well, not doing anything. Since my recent inclusion of Rampaging Baloths and Roil Elemental, this is back for another test, but it largely just a place holder until I get my wish list acquired.
DO YOU GUYS SEE ANY GOOD KILL SPELLS I AM MISSING? ARE THE ONES I AM RUNNING STUPID? LET ME KNOW! ALSO, ANY GOOD CARD DRAW SUGGESTIONS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME. Ideally Arcanis the Omnipotent, Capture of Jingzhou, Tooth and Nail, and Bribery would be on this list, but I either don't have them, or they are in other decks. I shooooould make a section of notable exclusions to minimize redundant conversation and maximize efficiency, but it is late, homies, and I am a lazy man.
Commentary: TnN was supposed to be in the whole time, I just didn't have one. Its arrival means Craterhoof comes in to be part of TnN for Hoof/Avenger. Also strong on its own because of the volume of mana dorks in the deck. Rofellos was also supposed to be in the whole time, but for my lack of having one (same with Grim). Duck turned me on to Carpet and Tomb, both of which have been great so far.
When adding ramp, it only makes sense to cut ramp to not dilute the deck too far. Cultivate/Reach are fine place holder cards, but just don't make the final cut. Tender is not good early ramp in this build because I don't get early permanents of other colors unless I draw Trinket Mage. Myr got cut for better ramp as well. He is the weakest of the mana dorks. Reflection was a place holder that was never intended to run the course. Grove seemed like the best land to pull for Tomb, as I am already down to two mountains and want to keep them in order to play around Back to Basics, and I need to keep the forest count as high as possible for Rofellos. And red is just the least important color. And I don't really care to have each opponent gain a life each time I need color.
Kiki doesn't have enough targets in my build, and is too hard to cast from hand with his red requirement.
Huh, turns out I just have a Blatant thievery. In my binder of all places. Don't know why I never check for things like this.
Other considered cards:
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are functional reprints for our intents and purposes. We aren't splicing anything onto the arcane (shocker, I know), so they perform 100% the same way. These guys fix colors for us. They activate landfall. While they only ramp us +1, they ensure we keep hitting our land drops, so as soon as you would have otherwise missed a drop, they become +2. These enable us to play through NBL hate. They perform at a much higher functionality than their basic mathematics would indicate. It is important to pack some resiliency, and that is exactly what these spells encompass.
Mana Reflection is fun, and all-around an ok card, and who ever doesn't want more mana? The effect is purely insane. I don't feel as if it adds enough of a dimension to the deck to warrant inclusion, but I may be demented or wrong. The big issue is that this isn't exactly a ramp spell, since it doesn't get us to a faster Wanderer, and it doesn't interact well with our land-fetch spells later on. we don't play draw spells because they fizzle off of Wanderer, and while we can often chain spells together for a long time with this in play, we have to untap with it if we hit it off of cascade, and it seems unreliable. Crazy good with Future Sight in play.
There are a few different ways we set about to win. We are in the UGx ramp shell, using Tooth and Nail as a finisher. It is definitely worth distinguishing TnN as a go-to win-con. This is a fairly common way for EDH decks to win, and because of its potency and success, one that will often be prepared for.
Our plan 1(b) to TnN's 1(a) is that we are a time walk deck. We can loop infinite turns, although it is rarely necessary to take more than one extra turn in a row to lock up a victory, and we have access to lots of time walk effects. We also play Knowledge Exploitation to steal our opponents time walks (priority: Time Stretch). Extra turns mean lots of mana to cast lots of spells and attack for lots of damage.
Next up in order is commander damage. An unmodified Wanderer kills in 3 hits. Remember that we are in the UG ramp shell, though, so a Kessig Wolf Run'd Wanderer kills in one hit. And KWR is uncounterable. This element plays nicely with our extra turn theme.
Our next reliance comes by way of a one-card wrecking show: if Food Chain ever sticks, the game is over. We are a Food Chain deck. I have never lost upon its unanswered arrival (and I mean the turn it hits. No one else will ever see another turn). This is a convenient "oops, I win" scenario, which plays well into the deck because people tend to have to scramble to stop our other win cons, and can be dead in the water to a 3 mana enchantment.
Last on the list, and least reliable, we can win off of raw combat damage. We play some big guys who hit hard. We play Blatant Thievery and take their guys who hit hard. Never be afraid to just turn 'em sideways and wax dat ass. This is where Garruk Wildspeaker shines. Early-game he ramps, then he can turn our dorks and plants into an army of death to spread across the land.
All the card explanations/reasonings are up, and so is the intro. So... bump!! I'm sure y'all beautiful creatures have some advice for me. Or just want to talk some S about my deck because you hate it/hate me/hate people who play too many Time Walks. All of this is acceptable. Hopefully we can generate a little buzz about this deck, because I think a lot of you would have a blast playing it/your own version of it, and I want some people to see it so we can collectively advance the design and get people playing some fun decks!
Other stuff like notable exclusions and change logs still to come. Other suggestions for sections to add are welcome as well
With at least 20 spells you don't want to hit with your cascades, how can this be so consistent? Thinking of Mana Drain. This card is good, especially in this deck. But a friend of mine ended up removing it because he cascaded into it every game (no joke). And you have plenty of artifact acceleration that you must it most of the time too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
With at least 20 spells you don't want to hit with your cascades, how can this be so consistent? Thinking of Mana Drain. This card is good, especially in this deck. But a friend of mine ended up removing it because he cascaded into it every game (no joke). And you have plenty of artifact acceleration that you must it most of the time too.
That is a very good question. I do not have the mathematics to explain it. What I do have is over a year of experience backing up that it is consistent, and I can make a few attempts as to figure why.
20 Cards is only 1/5 of the deck. The odds of hitting that 1/5 twice is then 1/25. Ok, so this is actually not good math. Because the lands and the two spells that cost 8+ do not factor in. So the odds are much higher of double bad cascade. Let's say there are roughly 24 spells you aren't enthralled to cascade into. There are roughly 36 that you do want to cascade into. So 24/60 reduces to 4/10. So... 40% chance each cascade is a bit of a dud. That actually means there is only a 16% chance both will be duds. Probably lower still, because we have to factor in that at least two ramp pieces are already on the board. Regardless, there is a roughly 16... we'll call it 20% chance of double dud. So once every 5 times you play the guy, he duds twice.
So, if we are in double dud situation, we have four ramp pieces and 7/5 haste who kills a person in 3 swings. If no one sweeps the board, we bash someone until they kill it or they die. This is a horrible scenario for us. Don't win a ton of games that way, but you can always recast, hit a landfall guy + land search spell (heaven forbid Boundless Realms) or just find Food Chain and win instantly. This is a low percentage game, but it also assume we drew no card draw spells or business spells while waiting to go off (very unlikely, as we noted that roughly 36 of our cards fit the bill here. So let's call it conservatively an even third, and we have a 66% chance of missing each turn. This leaves us with only a 19% chance of not drawing business by turn 4. So that means that in only 4% of games (.2*.2) will you double dud and not draw business by turn 4. So in 1 out of every 20 games you run into a the aformentioned scenario. Sometimes there will be a sweeper (killing the Wanderer, but also killing all man-based ramping). Of the cards we don't want to hit, 9 of them are men. Odds are very low that in this 1 in 20 games, all four ramp pieces are men (which compose <50% of our ramp). Still, assuming 50% of our ramp is men, that means the odds of all 4 being men is 6.25%. So in 6.25% of 5% of our games (0.3% of games) we are royally and utterly screwed. A non-sweeper means of Wanderer dying means that in all likelihood we still have ramp and can replay him.
Now, we play a fairly astounding 10 different cards that draw three or more cards. I believe I included Godo (fetching Fire and Ice, attacking twice/turn) which makes the count imperfect, but whatever. Additionally, we play three different cards that allow us to play cards off the top of our library (in the instance of Oracle of Mul Daya it is powering us through land duds and setting up content). We play Sword of Fire and Ice which is good as an engine even without Godo (SwoFI was not included in my "10 different cards" from earlier, although Godo was) because of our dork density. Also, at any given time with Wanderer in play, resolving Food Chain almost always ends the game. We also play four extra turn spells that are good for if nothing else an untap and draw (with Wanderer in play also for 7 commander at someone's face) and two extra turn spells good for two untaps, draws and 14 commander with Wanderer in play (potentially finishing off whoever got nipped when he came down).
Now, again, I am using very basic and poor math (which is why I consistently rounded in favor of failure), but what I am attempting to illustrate, while agreeing that a combination of bad luck and some targeted hate really does put us out of games more often than will happen with some other decks, is that this deck is a bit more resilient than it appears on the surface, and if we are not finished off entirely, we are always still in the game.
My issues with Mana Drain are as follows: I don't want to keep in my opening hand, because the turn I can wait to drain something is a turn I can be casting reliable ramp spells. I don't want to cascade into it, because I would rather kill people than wait around for next turn's Wanderer. This deck doesn't like to leave mana up for defense, much less double (non-green) color, so it just doesn't fit in this particular Maelstrom Wanderer variant. It bugs me, because I love my Mana Drains, and this means one of them will be unemployed for the time being.
Few suggestions for you. First, I will preface this by saying take a look at ambivalentduck's list, which is one of the better MW lists available. When I played MW I based my list off of his, and I was not disappointed. Here are a few highlight cards, with suggested cuts:
Carpet of Flowers - if your opponents are playing blue, this thing is a supercharged sol ring. If you're opponents aren't playing blue, congrats, MW has a 90-10 advantage already unless someone happens to be playing junk hermit druid. Remove a 3-cmc mana dork. Actually, try to remove all of these except coalition relic and worn powerstone. Where the heck is Nature's Lore or it's chinese brother, Three Visits? You can also run Renew, which is Nature's Lore for any dual land + lose 1 life, given the density of fetches you run. Can also randomly snag utility lands. You really want to have a high density of 2-cmc into 4 cmc ramp spells. 3-cmc is an awkward cost that you don't ever want to be paying unless it's mana crypt into coalition turn 1. Cast 2-cmc turn 2, 4-cmc turn 3, MW turn 4 like clockwork. A grim monolith should replace another 3-cmc dork if you own/can acquire one.
Blatant Thievery - remove roil elemental for this. Advantages: you get to take non-creature permanents too. You get to take them RIGHT NOW. You don't risk losing them all to a removal spell. Disadvantages - let me get back to you on that one.
Tooth and Nail - put your deck in a hat. Draw one out at random. Burn that card. Replace with T&N. Your deck is now better. It's a 4-dollar card, you're running Mana Drain and duals, go out and buy a second one.
Kiki-Jiki - you get bonus points if you swamp Molten for Zealous, which comes down faster and can steal spicy non-creatures, and randomly wins you the game. Remove another 3-cmc ramp spell for this, you have too much ramp as it is. If Sylvan is disappointing you, try cascading into SP and Kiki turn 4 and making another SP. 19 damage, 6 forests, 6 dead permanents, seems good. Kiki is insane value for copying bombs, and gives you an insta-win with conscripts.
Mana Drain - don't cut this. Consider - it's turn three and you could either cast mana drain or Nantuko Elder. Which is the more reliable ramp spell? Drain acts as disruption AND typically higher ramp, anywhere from 2-6 (feels good to mana drain that Sharuum which would have just killed you. Instead, Time Stretch! I'd like to see Nantuko do that). Consider adding spelljack too, which I thought was cute at first but is way better than it looks on paper.
Mind's Desire - this card. At worst it's like an extra, high-risk high-reward cascade in that it can hit a land or hit a Time Stretch. But nothing ends the game like hitting this with storm count around 6 or 8 after Food Chaining a bit. This is another card that seems a little too cute or high-variance on paper. It's not. It can absolutely end the game on the spot if you hit the right cards.
Jace 2.0 - again, you're running duals and drain, so I assume budget isn't a big deal here. Brainstorm effects are better in this deck that almost any other. Stacking the top of your library is just unfair with MW. Consider removing concentrate/harmonize for it. Yes, they're better CA. But CA is only important insofar as it helps you win the game. Stacking your deck with Time Warp and T&N also, coincidentally, helps you win the game.
There's more to say, but I need to wrap this up. Basically, consider cutting down on the sheer quantity of ramp spells, try to focus on 2 into 4-cmc ramp as much as possible, and consider removing the landfall critters (except cobra, which is obviously fine) for more reliable effects.
Lmao, I appreciate your zeal and candor. Let's start with the good!
Carpet of Flowers: where have you been my whole life?! Ha ha, this is phenomenal, and I did not even realize it existed, despite playing back in Urza block. Great under-the-radar find. One sided Eladamri's Vineyard? Ok, chumps! Definite add.
I am a bit annoyed that I have overlooked Blatant Thievery for so long. I have been aware of its existence, and used to own one. I'll have to at least give it a test.
Now allow me a disclaimer: I have been playing Magic since roughly 1997, so while it may not look like I am on a budget because of some of the cards I own, that is not the case. I am simply not in a spot where I can afford to budget Magic over... most other things So, you are definitely correct that I can afford cards like Tooth and Nail (on my wish list ;p), I am waiting for Christmas to roll around before I fill in some of the gaps.
So, that said, I do have a Mindsculpter, it is just in another deck at the moment. Might bump him over here to see what's up. Obviously strong synergy with this deck, although I am not sure his value to this deck is higher than his value to my Jenara deck. Then again, I am currently playing this one far more often, so he'll find his way in for testing.
Also, the cascade (yes, pun intended) of responses imploring me to keep Drain will stay its execution for now. Guy is on notice, though. Underperforming for me, Drain!!
Ha ha, wow, I will give Mind's Desire a try, but on a short leash. We'll see what that puppy brings to the table. I look forward to being pleasantly surprised.
Quick oversights --I have noted that I plan to include Grim Monolith, Tooth and Nail, so rest assure those will be included. I cannot expect you to have gone through all my text with a fine toothed comb, I wrote an awful lot, so just a quick bit to clarify
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is a guy I'd have to get a hold of to test. I see a lot of downside to him, but I agree that there have to be so many nutty plays that I can't even think about right now that a dude that powerful is worth testing. Now, as for Zealous Conscripts... man, it is better with Kiki-Jiki, but that guy played his way right out of my deck, whereas Molten Primordial has consistently been a powerhouse. I'm have to keep an eye on that. I feel like in most non-Kiki situations I heavily prefer the Primordial, but every time he hits play for me (or sits in my hand), I'll be sure to ask "what if".
I can definitely see cutting Roil Elemental and Rampaging Baloths, as I have never actually gotten to have either enter play since I picked them up. The idea was to turn my excess land spells into business a la Avenger of Zendikar (totally not getting cut) and Lotus Cobra, but I agree that while they have a high ceiling, they also have a pretty low floor, and I cannot make a good argument that either is a better risk/reward than, say, Kiki-Jiki.
Now, on to the really interesting part. While my ramp plan has been working very well so far as consistent t4 Wandering, if what you are suggesting is equally consistent in terms of ramping and cuts down the total number of ramp spells, I would be an arrogant fool not to give it a try. Here's to hoping that advice works out! This should be especially easy to test since I can simply goldfish to test this for max repetition.
Thanks for all of the terrific suggestions. Even in the unlikely event that not a single one of them sticks, this lit a fire in my soul and gives me a lot to think about and refine. Good stuff, good stuff!!
Er, I may be missing something on the math here, but if you play a two mana rampant growth effect on turn two, on turn three you play land number four. You proceed to tap out for a four mana "get two land" spell (lands 5+6). On turn four you play land for the turn (land 7) and are short of Maelstrom Wanderer mana by :sym1:. Now, were you to hit, say, a Grim Monolith or a Rofellos instead on turn two, you are cascading on turn 4, but it seems to me that the two mana rampant growth spells hold little intrinsic value over the Palladium Myr effects, which are stronger off of Maelstrom Wanderer, hold swords, and interact with Food Chain. Am I missing something?
Ah yes, I might have gotten overexcited and accidentally some math there.
A 2-cmc that isn't Grim followed by a 4-cmc ramp spell that isn't Thran won't get you to 8 mana turn 4 by themselves, as you astutely pointed out. Having said that, neither will your current 3-cmc heavy setup. The reality is T4 MW requires either a sol ring, crypt, grim, thran, vault, or claim into another 1-2 cmc spell in order to net that extra 1 mana.
Both methods require that extra little oomph. Of course, MW still comes down turn 4 plenty of games because frankly we run a lot of cards that provide that oomph.
If you truly want consistent turn 4 wanderers, you have to accelerate everything by a turn. You need to cast palladium myrs turn 3 consistently, and to do that, you need dorks. Mounds of elvish dorks. If you're not willing to run dorks, your current setup is no faster than land-based ramp. So why not do that?
The only reason not to run creature-based ramp is that it's easier to disrupt. That's the trade-off. It's always one mana cheaper to get a creature with the same ramp value as a spell, but at the cost of fragility. If you don't anticipate much disruption, I recommend swapping all your 4-cmc ramp spells into "_____ elf" and go to town. Having said that, always remember that this deck has one goal every single game: ramp into MW. Until that happens, extra utility with swords, greater value off cascades, etc are all irrelevant. I don't care about ANYTHING except magic number 8. My opponents know this. They also know that keeping me off magic number 8 keeps them in the game. So they'll counter my ramp. Luckily, that's all they can do, since targeted land destruction is comparatively sparse. But if my ramp is creature based... oh boy. They're gonna **** that up. You open up a whole new avenue of disruption. What if someone casts Toxic Deluge turn three and kills your nantuko elder and birds of paradise? After they see you go bananas and win the game turn 5 once or twice, using that swords that they were saving for an eldrazi on your somberwald sage will start to look mighty attractive.
Rambling aside, that's basically it. Creature based ramp is easier to disrupt. If your meta doesn't take advantage of that, scale down your ramp into 1 cmc into 3 cmc creatures and go to town. Once your group has adjusted and hated out that strategy (which they will, or they will lose), I find 2 cmc into 4 cmc to be only a turn slower and far more difficult to interact with.
Edit: On the topic of broken ramp cards, I just noticed your landbase lacks an Ancient Tomb. That should go in regardless of your other choice of ramp.
Edit2: Because I suspect some pedant is going to have the gall to actually double-check my math again, duly note that 1-into-3 cmc dorks still only get you to seven. The point is that they open up turn 3 to cast any ramp spell in your deck, in contrast to 2-into-4, which only leaves turn 1 which has far fewer available plays.
Ah yes, I might have gotten overexcited and accidentally some math there.
A 2-cmc that isn't Grim followed by a 4-cmc ramp spell that isn't Thran won't get you to 8 mana turn 4 by themselves, as you astutely pointed out. Having said that, neither will your current 3-cmc heavy setup. The reality is T4 MW requires either a sol ring, crypt, grim, thran, vault, or claim into another 1-2 cmc spell in order to net that extra 1 mana.
Both methods require that extra little oomph. Of course, MW still comes down turn 4 plenty of games because frankly we run a lot of cards that provide that oomph.
If you truly want consistent turn 4 wanderers, you have to accelerate everything by a turn. You need to cast palladium myrs turn 3 consistently, and to do that, you need dorks. Mounds of elvish dorks. If you're not willing to run dorks, your current setup is no faster than land-based ramp. So why not do that?
The only reason not to run creature-based ramp is that it's easier to disrupt. That's the trade-off. It's always one mana cheaper to get a creature with the same ramp value as a spell, but at the cost of fragility. If you don't anticipate much disruption, I recommend swapping all your 4-cmc ramp spells into "_____ elf" and go to town. Having said that, always remember that this deck has one goal every single game: ramp into MW. Until that happens, extra utility with swords, greater value off cascades, etc are all irrelevant. I don't care about ANYTHING except magic number 8. My opponents know this. They also know that keeping me off magic number 8 keeps them in the game. So they'll counter my ramp. Luckily, that's all they can do, since targeted land destruction is comparatively sparse. But if my ramp is creature based... oh boy. They're gonna **** that up. You open up a whole new avenue of disruption. What if someone casts Toxic Deluge turn three and kills your nantuko elder and birds of paradise? After they see you go bananas and win the game turn 5 once or twice, using that swords that they were saving for an eldrazi on your somberwald sage will start to look mighty attractive.
Rambling aside, that's basically it. Creature based ramp is easier to disrupt. If your meta doesn't take advantage of that, scale down your ramp into 1 cmc into 3 cmc creatures and go to town. Once your group has adjusted and hated out that strategy (which they will, or they will lose), I find 2 cmc into 4 cmc to be only a turn slower and far more difficult to interact with.
Edit: On the topic of broken ramp cards, I just noticed your landbase lacks an Ancient Tomb. That should go in regardless of your other choice of ramp.
Edit2: Because I suspect some pedant is going to have the gall to actually double-check my math again, duly note that 1-into-3 cmc dorks still only get you to seven. The point is that they open up turn 3 to cast any ramp spell in your deck, in contrast to 2-into-4, which only leaves turn 1 which has far fewer available plays.
Yes, Ancient Tomb is a very good suggestion. I saw it on Duck's list on that link and it got me to thinking. Pretty sure I used to have one. Not sure wtf I did with it
I think we can assuredly agree that the most important ramp spells are the 2+ mana spells on turns one and two. I didn't see Rofellos in his list, and that guy seems like he should be a house. I am also very interested to test my current ramp list with Carpet of Flowers, because that is another enabler of a turn two Palladium Myr guy.
For now I plan to keep refining my list in terms of the man-plan, but if either of my main metas starts to to hate off my dorks, or if I can find a Three Visits for trade or for cheap somewhere, I'll hop on testing the Rampant Growth strategy. I want to at least optimize my balance of rampers in this method before moving to a new one.
As long as I am seeing no hate for my guys, I think this strategy is a little more potentially explosive, especially with the addition of Carper (once I get one). Mana Crypt is brutally good with the plethora of 3cmc dorks, Carpet will drop them turn two, Vault hits Palladium Myr but none of the colored guys, and the two strategies operate the same off of Sol Ring. I am probably luck in some regard that no one hates my guys off, but it's a two sided coin, as no one hates them off because they are busy setting up as-or-more-powerful things. Cut-throat group o' blokes.
Edit: I highly recommend Somberwald Sage (and Rofellos) if you are doing a Rampant Growth build. Rampant + Sage = t4 Wanderer
Few suggestions for you. First, I will preface this by saying take a look at ambivalentduck's list, which is one of the better MW lists available. When I played MW I based my list off of his, and I was not disappointed.
While that was Tazriel's quote, I'm gonna chime in on the fact that not more than 40 minutes ago I just picked up an Ancient Tomb and Carpet of Flowers for some testing. Really looking forward to those two cards in particular.
Fabricate is also a big deal. It either grabs Mana Crypt/Sol Ring early or Metamorph/Scroll Rack late. And on that note, Tez is almost always amazing.
The biggest thing from your list that's a potential oversight from mine is Garruk, Primal Hunter. Drawing 7 is cute and removal on Wanderer just lets us replay him, but his ultimate is win-more and his +1 is pretty awful. In comparison, Tamiyo's ultimate wins the game almost on its own, she can lock someone down, and she can draw cards too. A lot of the duel lists run her.
There's also a brutal version that runs Wildfire/Devastation/Burning of Xinye/Devastating Force on the theory that wiping the board and then resolving a hasty 7/5 general is good. The issue is that with 3-4 players, someone can float the mana and then deal with your general. Then you just have a table of people who really don't like you.
Fairly minor changes. I think I took out Sneak Attack (which it looks like you no longer run) for Peregrine Drake, which gave me redundancy for infinite mana via DEN, and also interacted nicely with Food Chain early game. I also took out Brutalizer Exarch to put in Venser, Shaper Savant. Primarily because he functions similarly to Exarch as a DEN win condition, and because I wanted a counter more than a tutor early game. Lots of turn 4 boseiju'ed T&Ns running around in my meta. I also ran Cavern of Souls for uncounterable MW and Avenger. Lots of people saved Hinder for MW, which was cramping my style. I didn't run Defense of the Heart, found it got removed too quickly. I also ran Time Spiral, which was insane. I kept Mulldrifter, which I see you cut. It wasn't the strongest card, but the first time I evoked it then sac it to food chain with the trigger on the stack, I was hooked. Definitely not necessary, though.
Fabricate is also a big deal. It either grabs Mana Crypt/Sol Ring early or Metamorph/Scroll Rack late. And on that note, Tez is almost always amazing.
The biggest thing from your list that's a potential oversight from mine is Garruk, Primal Hunter. Drawing 7 is cute and removal on Wanderer just lets us replay him, but his ultimate is win-more and his +1 is pretty awful. In comparison, Tamiyo's ultimate wins the game almost on its own, she can lock someone down, and she can draw cards too. A lot of the duel lists run her.
There's also a brutal version that runs Wildfire/Devastation/Burning of Xinye/Devastating Force on the theory that wiping the board and then resolving a hasty 7/5 general is good. The issue is that with 3-4 players, someone can float the mana and then deal with your general. Then you just have a table of people who really don't like you.
I agree about Fabricate, I simply have not gotten my hands on one yet. Basically Trinket Mage #2 with a little versatility.
Tez I'm on the fence about, because I don't want to be ramping at 5, I don't have a whole lot of business to search for that warrants him as a search card, and I don't like Planeswalkers that require me to ultimate in order to be effective. He may see testing if I end up with some slots available after I make some changes here in a bit.
Yeah, Garruk P is exclusively a draw spells, no two ways about it. And Tamiyo I would certainly look at if I were running a duel version, but it lacks power in multiplayer, imo.
I have also seen the Wildfire Wanderer lists, but opted otherwise because A) it is not my style and B) there is no way in my meta that I kill multiple people before it eats removal... if there is a good list in the forums somewhere let me know and I will link it in my OP.
Tez isn't a ramp spell unless you want him to be. He can ramp, but he can also get Rack/Top/Metamorph. Ie. Use Top to draw, then search it again with Tez getting shuffle along the way. He's never dead and he's also seldom threatening.
Not sure I agree with the reasoning on Brutalizer Exarch: he's just versatile. Ie. Cascade him, put Kiki/DEN on top, then wipe people's boards. Next turn, you draw Palinchron, gg. Some people run Worldly Tutor and he's better on several fronts.
Venser is very very good. I'm cutting Defense for him. It's better on paper than in practice.
Time Spiral has been in and out. I don't like that it refills my opponents' hands in my ramp-heavy meta. Peregrine Drake also just didn't do enough.
I don't disagree on Cavern of Souls, but it's not clear to me what I should cut. Opal Palace hasn't been in very long, but I suspect that it's win-more. If I've cast Maelstrom enough times that it matters...I'm probably just winning.
Sorry I've taken my time getting around to responding. Duck, I updated my OP to add your list in a spoiler for those interested in seeing where we differ and how your ramp philosophy works in addition to mine. The more solid builds people see, the more likely they will see one they like and try playing Maelstrom Wanderer. I also have some updates to my list I need to get around to soon.
To address our conversation, I guess I just don't see the true value in Tez at that point. He isn't ramping, he isn't a particularly strong payoff card, his ultimate isn't that terrific. I don't doubt he is often good, he just screams "cuttable" to me.
I have never been particularly impress with Venser, because all of the guys who bounce or counter Wanderer the turn I play him don't allow me to attack or tap any of my other guys and sacrifices seven commander damage. It also means my mana for next turn is spent as well, and while another double cascade is excellent, I often just want to play spells, especially if I hit draw off of my other cascade. He is also not good if we used any of our artifacts that have to pay to untap to cast Wanderer.
Time Spiral I definitely agree on. I am allergic to giving my opponents cards. Simply not ok with it.
Cavern of Souls you all will have to let me know about. I am not thrilled about adding an NBL just to avoid tuck counters, especially as my list has no means of searching out utility lands. But one land slot is not a big sacrifice, and it does tap for any color. Let me know how it goes.
Opal Palace I simply cannot see being relevant. It slows you down to tap for color, and he already kills in three hits. With a sword and Palace on the second casting I guess he kills in two hits, but I see it being more inhibitive than beneficial.
Tazriel, if you post you list, I will link it to my OP as well.
Erratic Portal and/or Crystal Shard will bounce Wanderer, allowing you to get extra cascades without waiting for him to die, and used with Archeomancer/E-Wit you can take extra turns.
If you're looking for cascade-friendly counterspells, I use Hinder and Plasm Capture in my build to great effect.
Erratic Portal and/or Crystal Shard will bounce Wanderer, allowing you to get extra cascades without waiting for him to die, and used with Archeomancer/E-Wit you can take extra turns.
If you're looking for cascade-friendly counterspells, I use Hinder and Plasm Capture in my build to great effect.
I feel like if I were building more of a mid-range value engine style of deck the bounce cards would be better. However, my goal is to kill everyone on turn 4 or 5. The bounce guys really hinder that plan, and in my meta, give people too much time to either a) come up with answers or b) take infinite/functionally infinite turns and kill me. I figure if we apply pressure with Wanderer they either have to kill him, which allows us to recast him without spending our cards to do so, or they die to the onslaught.
I originally wanted to keep a number of counterspells in the deck, but the more I play it, the more I realize this build is much too proactive to be holding back mana. I always want to be using all of my mana on my turn, which leaves only Mana Drain as a potential counter that I want to use (or possibly Force of Will/Pact of Negation if I find a dire need to add counters to the list). Plasm Capture I like in theory, but since I never leave :symg::symg::symu::symu: open in this build, it is only ever a Crystal Shard type of effect and never a counter to help save my ass.
Fair enough. My Wanderer build is pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum, which is why I rarely comment in most of the threads.
Different mindsets breed different creativity, though. I appreciate any input, especially from an outside perspective that I might not otherwise have access to. I'll have to give your list a look and see what you have going on
Edit: It looks like your unicorn avatar is staring in disbelief at my poptart kitty. I find that very amusing,
Different mindsets breed different creativity, though. I appreciate any input, especially from an outside perspective that I might not otherwise have access to. I'll have to give your list a look and see what you have going on
Edit: It looks like your unicorn avatar is staring in disbelief at my poptart kitty. I find that very amusing,
Well, flying poptart kitties that poop rainbows are pretty amazing.
I play a very similar build as we usually play commander in pods of 4-8 people but I run 6 counter spells and kind of play the deck as a draw/go combo/control deck and I try my best not to attract attention to myself as much as possible, buddying up to other people until I can kill everyone at the table safely backed up with 2 or 3 counter spells and they get really butthurt and upset about it. Now, sometimes just for fun, I will try to combo out early when I know people can stop me so I can get some table interaction, it gets boring just sitting there not doing anything the entire time. Sometimes I will even combo all the way out and just decide not to kill everyone at the table so we can play the game some more, and then everyone teams up and just kills me. I feel bad killing everyone at the table so abruptly, it doesn't feel like the deck is very interactive, I even cut a lot of the more instant win cons like palinchron/deadeye (cut palinchron) and tooth and nailing ulamag/kozilek (cut the eldrazi), question is, should I just kill everyone at the table and not give them a chance to fight back and just deal with them being butthurt and not wanting to play with me? or should I just play a different deck entirely? Is there a more interactive version of the deck? maybe cascading into things that dont neccesarily win me the game, but put me marginally ahead of the curve not to piss anyone off?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have a really bad habit of editing my posts about 10 times after I post them.
I play a very similar build as we usually play commander in pods of 4-8 people but I run 6 counter spells and kind of play the deck as a draw/go combo/control deck and I try my best not to attract attention to myself as much as possible, buddying up to other people until I can kill everyone at the table safely backed up with 2 or 3 counter spells and they get really butthurt and upset about it. Now, sometimes just for fun, I will try to combo out early when I know people can stop me so I can get some table interaction, it gets boring just sitting there not doing anything the entire time. Sometimes I will even combo all the way out and just decide not to kill everyone at the table so we can play the game some more, and then everyone teams up and just kills me. I feel bad killing everyone at the table so abruptly, it doesn't feel like the deck is very interactive, I even cut a lot of the more instant win cons like palinchron/deadeye (cut palinchron) and tooth and nailing ulamag/kozilek (cut the eldrazi), question is, should I just kill everyone at the table and not give them a chance to fight back and just deal with them being butthurt and not wanting to play with me? or should I just play a different deck entirely? Is there a more interactive version of the deck? maybe cascading into things that dont neccesarily win me the game, but put me marginally ahead of the curve not to piss anyone off?
See, this is interesting. If I am playing in a game with more than four total people, I sure hope someone does something big and wins by turn 5-6 at the latest. Going to turn eight with eight people is like playing a 32 turn game in a duel, except you can't see what half of the people are doing
But for me, the best way to keep the locals from getting too salty is simple: I let them play my other decks. I make sure to carry around 3-4 other decks around the same level as the one I am trying to tune, and if they are always free to use them if they would like. While explosive, Wanderer is certainly not the best of my decks (I am the keeper of my and my brother's EDH decks), I just find it to be the most fun to play. And if I am sitting down with my competitive group, I am definitely not playing the best deck in the match.
That said, advising you to build a bunch of other decks as good or better than the one you are trying to run is not great economical advice. If you don't have the spare cards lying around, I don't really know what to tell you. My other thing is that if no one has decks up to par, I tell them I just want to play one game with Wanderer to test out my recent changes and evaluate the state it's in, and then I play with my lower tier decks afterward. If you have no other decks at all, maybe play one of theirs? If they have no other decks... uh, you sound pretty screwed.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
This deck exists to cast a very early Maelstrom Wanderer and enjoy the ensuing chaos. This went from being a whimsical joke deck to being ultra-competitive once it was realized just how quickly he can wander in from the command zone and bring his powerful friends along. There are a lot of powerful spells just hanging around in the Maelstrom, and he wanders by them all and invites them to come back with him. High in power and fun, this is probably at this point in time my all-time favorite EDH deck.
While we may lack the versatility and resiliency of some other decks, the raw freight-train of power and wacky random fun make this deck rewarding and worthwhile.
Put your hands down, this is not an existential musing about our existence or (in)significance, simply a fun summary of why this deck may interest you. When I first looked at this particular tri-color "shard", it stood out to me that Riku of Two Reflections was clearly the go-to commander for EDH. A slightly high, but manageable CMC, two crazy powerful abilities, and a world of synergy at his fingertips, Riku casts a long shadow across the RUG (pun obviously intended). So I set out to put together a solid Riku list and acquire the parts necessary to build a prototype. My brother stumbled across the ol' Maelstrom Wanderer during this time, and once he showed me, there was a definite need to make a pet deck out of him (Maelstrom Wanderer, not my brother #ambiguousmodifiers). But still, before I spend my money on my pet decks, I like to finish off my competitive decks first. We got an invitation from our friend Greg, with whom we used to play competitive (typically standard) Magic, to get away for a fun EDH weekend, and it was too much to pass up. As we busted out our compilation of decks, we saw he had a Maelstrom Wanderer build put together, so my brother jumped at the chance to pilot the deck, since ours was no more than a vision at the time. We shuffled up, cut, and before I untapped for turn 4 with my mono Chainer build, Maelstrom Wanderer had stopped by with his friends and wiped out the entire table. While that version of the deck is not the same one you see me posting today, nor is Greg's still the same, it was that realization of wild power that lead to the months turning into years of extensive tuning to give us the list I present today. The goal remains the same: make it faster, make it more consistent, make it more resilient.
No doubt this deck can always completely flop on its face, even with a perfect draw. You can run out a turn 2 Maelstrom Wanderer, flip a Somberwald Sage and a Fyndhorn Elder, eat a Damnation and be left with no board and no hand. It happens. It happens a lot more rarely now than when the deck started. We have gotten the build consistent and deadly enough that it is typically arch enemy before a card has been drawn or a die has been rolled. There are exceptions. It is not more consistent or devastating than the brilliant Edric, Spymaster of Trest. It doesn't have the control or versatility of Zur the Enchanter, or the inevitability of Thada Adel, Acquisitor. But this is a deck that must be reckoned with at the most powerful circles, and if it is not jabbed through the heart and finished, can win out of nowhere.
The premise is very simple: put as much quality ramp as possible into the deck (ideally land ramp, as it maintains efficacy through inevitable board wipes), split that with cards that crush souls when flipped off of the Wanderer, fill in the rest with cards that add resilience and synergy, and sit back and watch the madness unfold.
This deck has some definite strong points:
Tooth and Nail: The TnN package typically goes with one of a few finishes depending on the surrounding deck construction.
Avenger/Hoof: (Avenger of Zendikar/Craterhoof Behemoth) to create a giant, hasty, trampling army and strike the board. This is stronger in our deck than most, because Wanderer grants all of our creatures haste, so we can alpha strike off of the TnN turn. What's nice here is that there is a good argument for both cards being in the deck outside of simply the combo finish, meaning fewer dead "oh look, half of my combo, it will catch my tears as I die" draws.
Another prevalent package is Kiki/Conscripts (Kiki Jiki/Zealous Conscripts) to create an infinite army of 3/3s. To make this route work, Conscripts trigger targets Kiki Jiki, gaining control of (whatever *eye roll*) and untapping (Ah!) Kiki, who then retaps to copy Conscripts ad infinitum. The downside here is that, while good in tandem, I don't like either of these cards for the deck based off of just their own merit.
Deadeye/Palinchron is a favorite infinite mana combo. For quite some time I played under the impression that you could then blink Deadeye, souldbond him to Wanderer, blink Wanderer, use the replacement effect to take him to the command zone, and recast him to cascade the entire deck. As it turns out, that doesn't work (sad face). He is brought back from the command zone as per the resolution of the ability.
"Man Ramp": The man ramp package features a collection of 3-drop dudes who tap for two. This includes Fyndhorn Elder, Nantuko Elder, Greenweaver Druid, Palladium Myr, and Overgrowth (even though Overgrowth is not a man).
Notable exceptions to the man ramp plan include Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Somberwald Sage, and Joraga Treespeaker, as they all perform either a different function or simply at a higher level. This guys should be auto-includes, even if you go with the "Rampant Growth/Spell Ramp" plan.
"Rampant Growth/Spell Ramp": The rampant growth plan includes the two cost land search cards such as Nature's Lore, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Restore, Three Visits, and Farseek.
Notable exceptions to this plan include our four mana ramps spells, who may seem like they would be included given that they are, indeed spell ramp, but serve an entirely different function in the deck.
Landfall: The landfall package includes Rampaging Baloths, Roil Elemental, Boundless Realms, and debatably Avenger of Zendikar. These guys do not function much on their own, and are here to take advantage of our fetch land suite and the fact that we cascade/draw into plenty of land search spells, and they work to gain value out of our early-game ramp when presented in the late game. I am of the opinion that Avenger of Zendikar is strong enough in his own right to be excluded from being lumped in here, but others may disagree.
Notable exceptions include: Lotus Cobra, who is himself an early-game ramp spell, and is not here to gain value late-game, and arguable Avenger of Zendikar, who is a house even by himself.
DEN: The DEN package includes (obviously) Deadeye Navigator, along with his payoff buddies Palinchron and Brutalizer Exarch. While DEN himself work with multiple other cards in the deck, these guys come or go in tow with him, whereas the other cards that work with him are there for other reasons.
Godo: The Godo package revolves around Godo, Bandit Warlord. If it weren't for Godo, I don't know if I would find space for Sword of Feast and Famine or Sword of Fire and Ice, because, while they are both good, and at times spectacular in their own right, I don't think they quite fit the streamlined version of what this deck is trying to do by themselves.
Extra Turns: This seems straight forward at first. Time Warp, Temporal Manipulation, Capture of Jingzhou, Walk the Aeons, Temporal Mastery, and Time Stretch are no-brainers here. However, there is another small handfull of cards that don't carry their weight in our deck without this theme, including Eternal Witness, Archaeomancer, and Phantasmal Image. P. Image is probably the least straightforward of the bunch. He is here to copy 'Mancer and Witness. He does a lot of other things, but if not for this theme, he would not make it.
Notable exception to this is Phyrexian Metamorph. Do not lump this hoss in with Image. The ability to copy artifacts is just too nuts. If aaaaaanybody gets Sol Ring or Crypt, so do we. If anyone turbos out a Gilded Lotus or Thran Dynamo, so do we. If anyone drops a quick Terastadon or Sylvan Primordial so do we. Saucy!
Card Choices:
Fetches: 8
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothilld
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Yavimaya Coast
Basics: 20
10 Forest
8 Island
2 Mountain
As for the fetchable duals (Tropical Island, Volcanic Island, Taiga, Breeding Pool, Steam Vents, Stomping Ground), these cards are the absolute tops. In instances in which you don't need the mana immediately, you find the shocks. If you do need the mana immediately, you find the original duals. These guys are extremely important to our game plan, and allow us to get color fixing from cards that search for Forests, as well as interact profitably with cards like the aforementioned Rofellos.
The other non-basic lands (NBLs) are actually a category where I am very interested in where the forum conversation might take this deck. I want to keep the basic count as high as possible without sacrificing the ability to hit all my colors with extreme consistency. Thus far I have run into almost no trouble whatsoever with color-fixing, but I am always open to new, better suggestions, or perhaps cutting the NBLs I have completely out in favor of the basics. Right now, aside from Command Tower and Ancient Tomb (um, Mana Crypt on a land? Hellz yeah) my choices are entirely arbitrary. Very interested in the comments in this regard.
Note: I have flirted with Ancient Ziggurat, but it always seems a little on the cute side, to where it will hurt us when we are trying to make non-Maelstrom plays. It is still on the edge of my mind, though. May test it.
As for the basics, the high forest count reflects the importance in fixing that green represents for us. If we can access just one of our colors early, it is assuredly green, as many of our green spells find lands or can add mana of any color to our mana pool (Lotus Cobra). Green gives us seven spells capable of finding early fixing, and many more that enable us to ramp into other cards (such as Gilded Lotus) that provide fixing.
After green, blue is the second most important color. We often need :symu::symu: to hard-cast our card draw spells, or, in the case of the Future Sight twins, is required. The green ramp and blue card draw are the two main factors that keep this deck running, and that reflects in our basic land spread. The two mountains are there so that we can avoid being completely shut down by Back to Basics and NBL hate. Since we have a number of means of finding basic lands, we are surprisingly resilient under conditions of NBL hate.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE SUGGESTIONS FOR HOW TO HASH OUT MY "OTHER NBL" MANABASE? I AM WINGING IT AT THE MOMENT. I definitely want to keep my basic count high, especially the Forest count (see Rofellos, "Forest" search spells), but aside from some vague ideas, I am pretty lost and overwhelmed. The mana base has held up well so far over the year+ of testing and modification, but such a delicate balance is never complete, and "sufficient" does not make me as happy as "optimal".
2 Mana Drain
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Eternal Witness
4 Archaeomancer
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
8 Terastadon
10 Time Stretch
Mana Drain will be cut once I acquire some of the cards I need for the deck. I loved the idea: add a versatile "catch all" answer card which is still useful when cascaded. But the more I test this card, the more I realize I almost never want to Drain my Maelstrom Wanderer, because too often I want to be attacking with haste. I never want to keep Drain in an opening hand, because it is neither ramp, land, nor card draw. I don't want to sit around with mana open and play defense, because the whole deck is offensive fire power. Just not a good fit.
Phantasmal Image is great in this deck. It never existed in this deck to "legend rule" off opposing commanders. It copies cards like Lotus Cobra and Oracle of Mul Daya early, or becomes bombs like Molten Primordial, Terastadon, Sphinx of Uthuun or Avenger of Zendikar later. Or, my favorite function, becomes an extra copy of Eternal Witness or Archaeomancer to recast our Time Stretch, Time Warps, or Knowledge Exploitation (for Time Stretch). Game: Blouses.
Oblivion Stone annoys me that it needs to be here, but it needs to be here. We can't rely on winning every game in the first couple turns. We need access to this. It is really annoying that Thada Adel, Acquisitor snags this from us at will, though...
Sword of Feast and Famine does what Sword of Feast and Famine does. This deck turbos out lands, and with the card draw density, is only constrained by how much mana it can produce. This ends games.
Sword of Fire and Ice is not at its best in this deck, but it is A) Always good B) Functions off of Godo, Bandit Warlord and C) Provides us with resiliency by enabling our mana dorks to become card draw engines when the chips are down. Don't sleep on SwoFI just because it's better in a Rafiq deck.
Eternal Witness is crazy versatile and an amazing in EDH. In our deck, however, it has roughly one function: get back extra turn spells. While we don't use it to its full versatility, it is probably more back breaking in our deck than most, even with nearly-singular function. And then there comes the fact that, again, when the chips are down, he gets back our Concentrate to get us back into the game. This card is too good to exclude in decks that produce
Archaeomancer is a 4cmc, blue, narrower version of E-Witness. I shall not mince words. This is the lesser of two witnesses.
Phyrexian Metamorph is amazing in this deck in manners that do not make sense. It copies our ramp artifacts early. It has every function of Phantasmal Image plus it hits Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, Sol Ring, and Mana Crypt on our OR OUR OPPONENTS' boards. Never, ever, ever mulligan this card away.
Glen Elendra Archmage is in the running for "most devastating card for the guy who is winning to possess". We are frontrunners. This is the frontrunner card. Just bonkers to have in play, and about the only reason to ever leave mana open with our game plan. Even if our opponents manage to wipe us through this guy, it means they spent all their resources and three must-counter cards to deal with our board, meaning we get to reload with our powerful draw spells without fear of resistance from the peanut gallery.
Terastadon seems like an odd card to have listed under "utility spells". I hear you. It really does. But this cannot be cascaded into, and what it does is provide us the versatility to deal with threats or end games in decisive and devastating manner. We create the mana to hard cast this puppy on turn 3. We have clone effects. The big scare here, is that our opponents cast clone effects, too. This guy is best reserved for the turn on which you are trying to win. Don't let him get turned against you.
Time Stretch. Game over.
AM I EITHER OVER OR UNDER COMMITING TO VERSATILITY? ARE MY CHOICES OR REASONING SUSPECT? LET ME KNOW! Mana Drain is already on the way out. Cards like Oblivion Stone, Glen Elendra Archmage, and Terastadon I like, are good, but are also potentially cuttable for various reasons. If I need space, I could conceivably cut Godo and the Sword package. Any thoughts or ideas?
- Capture of Jingzhou
Please bear with me as I continue to develop this post. I am lazy and I have things to do, which is a terrible and dangerous combination.[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
+Tooth and Nail, Craterhoof Behemoth, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Grim Monolith, Carpet of Flowers, and Ancient Tomb
- Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, the Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker I had been testing in place of Bloom Tender, and Palladium Myr, Mana Reflection, and Grove of the Burnwillows
Commentary: TnN was supposed to be in the whole time, I just didn't have one. Its arrival means Craterhoof comes in to be part of TnN for Hoof/Avenger. Also strong on its own because of the volume of mana dorks in the deck. Rofellos was also supposed to be in the whole time, but for my lack of having one (same with Grim). Duck turned me on to Carpet and Tomb, both of which have been great so far.
When adding ramp, it only makes sense to cut ramp to not dilute the deck too far. Cultivate/Reach are fine place holder cards, but just don't make the final cut. Tender is not good early ramp in this build because I don't get early permanents of other colors unless I draw Trinket Mage. Myr got cut for better ramp as well. He is the weakest of the mana dorks. Reflection was a place holder that was never intended to run the course. Grove seemed like the best land to pull for Tomb, as I am already down to two mountains and want to keep them in order to play around Back to Basics, and I need to keep the forest count as high as possible for Rofellos. And red is just the least important color. And I don't really care to have each opponent gain a life each time I need color.
Kiki doesn't have enough targets in my build, and is too hard to cast from hand with his red requirement.
01/06/14
+Blatant Thievery
- Boundless Realms
Huh, turns out I just have a Blatant thievery. In my binder of all places. Don't know why I never check for things like this.
Other considered cards:
Mana Reflection is fun, and all-around an ok card, and who ever doesn't want more mana? The effect is purely insane. I don't feel as if it adds enough of a dimension to the deck to warrant inclusion, but I may be demented or wrong. The big issue is that this isn't exactly a ramp spell, since it doesn't get us to a faster Wanderer, and it doesn't interact well with our land-fetch spells later on. we don't play draw spells because they fizzle off of Wanderer, and while we can often chain spells together for a long time with this in play, we have to untap with it if we hit it off of cascade, and it seems unreliable. Crazy good with Future Sight in play.
Wandering on a Budget:
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
Land: 37
Duals: 3
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
Other NBLs: 1
1 Command Tower
Basics: 33
15 Forest
10 Island
8 Mountain
Ramp: 25
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Joraga Treespeaker
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Farseek
3 Cultivate
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Coalition Relic
3 Worn Powerstone
3 Fyndhorn Elder
3 Nantuko Elder
3 Greenweaver Druid
3 Somberwald Sage
3 Overgrowth
3 Trinket Mage
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Ranger's Path
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Hunting Wilds
5 Gilded Lotus
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Eternal Witness
3 Rhystic Study
3 Crystal Shard
4 Erratic Portal
4 Archaeomancer
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
8 Terastadon
10 Time Stretch
Payoff Spells (cascade): 27
3 Food Chain
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Rite of Replication
4 Harmonize
4 Concentrate
5 Time Warp
5 Future Sight
5 Magus of the Future
5 Tidings
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
6 Brutalizer Exarch
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Rampaging Baloths
6 Recurring Insight
6 Roil Elemental
6 Walk the Aeons
7 Tooth and Nail
7 Great Whale
7 Diluvian Primordial
7 Molten Primordial
7 Sylvan Primordial
7 Temporal Mastery
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Knowledge Exploitation
7 Blatant Thievery
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
How we win:
There are a few different ways we set about to win. We are in the UGx ramp shell, using Tooth and Nail as a finisher. It is definitely worth distinguishing TnN as a go-to win-con. This is a fairly common way for EDH decks to win, and because of its potency and success, one that will often be prepared for.
Our plan 1(b) to TnN's 1(a) is that we are a time walk deck. We can loop infinite turns, although it is rarely necessary to take more than one extra turn in a row to lock up a victory, and we have access to lots of time walk effects. We also play Knowledge Exploitation to steal our opponents time walks (priority: Time Stretch). Extra turns mean lots of mana to cast lots of spells and attack for lots of damage.
Next up in order is commander damage. An unmodified Wanderer kills in 3 hits. Remember that we are in the UG ramp shell, though, so a Kessig Wolf Run'd Wanderer kills in one hit. And KWR is uncounterable. This element plays nicely with our extra turn theme.
Our next reliance comes by way of a one-card wrecking show: if Food Chain ever sticks, the game is over. We are a Food Chain deck. I have never lost upon its unanswered arrival (and I mean the turn it hits. No one else will ever see another turn). This is a convenient "oops, I win" scenario, which plays well into the deck because people tend to have to scramble to stop our other win cons, and can be dead in the water to a 3 mana enchantment.
Last on the list, and least reliable, we can win off of raw combat damage. We play some big guys who hit hard. We play Blatant Thievery and take their guys who hit hard. Never be afraid to just turn 'em sideways and wax dat ass. This is where Garruk Wildspeaker shines. Early-game he ramps, then he can turn our dorks and plants into an army of death to spread across the land.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Other stuff like notable exclusions and change logs still to come. Other suggestions for sections to add are welcome as well
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
That is a very good question. I do not have the mathematics to explain it. What I do have is over a year of experience backing up that it is consistent, and I can make a few attempts as to figure why.
20 Cards is only 1/5 of the deck. The odds of hitting that 1/5 twice is then 1/25. Ok, so this is actually not good math. Because the lands and the two spells that cost 8+ do not factor in. So the odds are much higher of double bad cascade. Let's say there are roughly 24 spells you aren't enthralled to cascade into. There are roughly 36 that you do want to cascade into. So 24/60 reduces to 4/10. So... 40% chance each cascade is a bit of a dud. That actually means there is only a 16% chance both will be duds. Probably lower still, because we have to factor in that at least two ramp pieces are already on the board. Regardless, there is a roughly 16... we'll call it 20% chance of double dud. So once every 5 times you play the guy, he duds twice.
So, if we are in double dud situation, we have four ramp pieces and 7/5 haste who kills a person in 3 swings. If no one sweeps the board, we bash someone until they kill it or they die. This is a horrible scenario for us. Don't win a ton of games that way, but you can always recast, hit a landfall guy + land search spell (heaven forbid Boundless Realms) or just find Food Chain and win instantly. This is a low percentage game, but it also assume we drew no card draw spells or business spells while waiting to go off (very unlikely, as we noted that roughly 36 of our cards fit the bill here. So let's call it conservatively an even third, and we have a 66% chance of missing each turn. This leaves us with only a 19% chance of not drawing business by turn 4. So that means that in only 4% of games (.2*.2) will you double dud and not draw business by turn 4. So in 1 out of every 20 games you run into a the aformentioned scenario. Sometimes there will be a sweeper (killing the Wanderer, but also killing all man-based ramping). Of the cards we don't want to hit, 9 of them are men. Odds are very low that in this 1 in 20 games, all four ramp pieces are men (which compose <50% of our ramp). Still, assuming 50% of our ramp is men, that means the odds of all 4 being men is 6.25%. So in 6.25% of 5% of our games (0.3% of games) we are royally and utterly screwed. A non-sweeper means of Wanderer dying means that in all likelihood we still have ramp and can replay him.
Now, we play a fairly astounding 10 different cards that draw three or more cards. I believe I included Godo (fetching Fire and Ice, attacking twice/turn) which makes the count imperfect, but whatever. Additionally, we play three different cards that allow us to play cards off the top of our library (in the instance of Oracle of Mul Daya it is powering us through land duds and setting up content). We play Sword of Fire and Ice which is good as an engine even without Godo (SwoFI was not included in my "10 different cards" from earlier, although Godo was) because of our dork density. Also, at any given time with Wanderer in play, resolving Food Chain almost always ends the game. We also play four extra turn spells that are good for if nothing else an untap and draw (with Wanderer in play also for 7 commander at someone's face) and two extra turn spells good for two untaps, draws and 14 commander with Wanderer in play (potentially finishing off whoever got nipped when he came down).
Now, again, I am using very basic and poor math (which is why I consistently rounded in favor of failure), but what I am attempting to illustrate, while agreeing that a combination of bad luck and some targeted hate really does put us out of games more often than will happen with some other decks, is that this deck is a bit more resilient than it appears on the surface, and if we are not finished off entirely, we are always still in the game.
My issues with Mana Drain are as follows: I don't want to keep in my opening hand, because the turn I can wait to drain something is a turn I can be casting reliable ramp spells. I don't want to cascade into it, because I would rather kill people than wait around for next turn's Wanderer. This deck doesn't like to leave mana up for defense, much less double (non-green) color, so it just doesn't fit in this particular Maelstrom Wanderer variant. It bugs me, because I love my Mana Drains, and this means one of them will be unemployed for the time being.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Carpet of Flowers - if your opponents are playing blue, this thing is a supercharged sol ring. If you're opponents aren't playing blue, congrats, MW has a 90-10 advantage already unless someone happens to be playing junk hermit druid. Remove a 3-cmc mana dork. Actually, try to remove all of these except coalition relic and worn powerstone. Where the heck is Nature's Lore or it's chinese brother, Three Visits? You can also run Renew, which is Nature's Lore for any dual land + lose 1 life, given the density of fetches you run. Can also randomly snag utility lands. You really want to have a high density of 2-cmc into 4 cmc ramp spells. 3-cmc is an awkward cost that you don't ever want to be paying unless it's mana crypt into coalition turn 1. Cast 2-cmc turn 2, 4-cmc turn 3, MW turn 4 like clockwork. A grim monolith should replace another 3-cmc dork if you own/can acquire one.
Blatant Thievery - remove roil elemental for this. Advantages: you get to take non-creature permanents too. You get to take them RIGHT NOW. You don't risk losing them all to a removal spell. Disadvantages - let me get back to you on that one.
Tooth and Nail - put your deck in a hat. Draw one out at random. Burn that card. Replace with T&N. Your deck is now better. It's a 4-dollar card, you're running Mana Drain and duals, go out and buy a second one.
Kiki-Jiki - you get bonus points if you swamp Molten for Zealous, which comes down faster and can steal spicy non-creatures, and randomly wins you the game. Remove another 3-cmc ramp spell for this, you have too much ramp as it is. If Sylvan is disappointing you, try cascading into SP and Kiki turn 4 and making another SP. 19 damage, 6 forests, 6 dead permanents, seems good. Kiki is insane value for copying bombs, and gives you an insta-win with conscripts.
Mana Drain - don't cut this. Consider - it's turn three and you could either cast mana drain or Nantuko Elder. Which is the more reliable ramp spell? Drain acts as disruption AND typically higher ramp, anywhere from 2-6 (feels good to mana drain that Sharuum which would have just killed you. Instead, Time Stretch! I'd like to see Nantuko do that). Consider adding spelljack too, which I thought was cute at first but is way better than it looks on paper.
Mind's Desire - this card. At worst it's like an extra, high-risk high-reward cascade in that it can hit a land or hit a Time Stretch. But nothing ends the game like hitting this with storm count around 6 or 8 after Food Chaining a bit. This is another card that seems a little too cute or high-variance on paper. It's not. It can absolutely end the game on the spot if you hit the right cards.
Jace 2.0 - again, you're running duals and drain, so I assume budget isn't a big deal here. Brainstorm effects are better in this deck that almost any other. Stacking the top of your library is just unfair with MW. Consider removing concentrate/harmonize for it. Yes, they're better CA. But CA is only important insofar as it helps you win the game. Stacking your deck with Time Warp and T&N also, coincidentally, helps you win the game.
There's more to say, but I need to wrap this up. Basically, consider cutting down on the sheer quantity of ramp spells, try to focus on 2 into 4-cmc ramp as much as possible, and consider removing the landfall critters (except cobra, which is obviously fine) for more reliable effects.
Carpet of Flowers: where have you been my whole life?! Ha ha, this is phenomenal, and I did not even realize it existed, despite playing back in Urza block. Great under-the-radar find. One sided Eladamri's Vineyard? Ok, chumps! Definite add.
I am a bit annoyed that I have overlooked Blatant Thievery for so long. I have been aware of its existence, and used to own one. I'll have to at least give it a test.
Now allow me a disclaimer: I have been playing Magic since roughly 1997, so while it may not look like I am on a budget because of some of the cards I own, that is not the case. I am simply not in a spot where I can afford to budget Magic over... most other things So, you are definitely correct that I can afford cards like Tooth and Nail (on my wish list ;p), I am waiting for Christmas to roll around before I fill in some of the gaps.
So, that said, I do have a Mindsculpter, it is just in another deck at the moment. Might bump him over here to see what's up. Obviously strong synergy with this deck, although I am not sure his value to this deck is higher than his value to my Jenara deck. Then again, I am currently playing this one far more often, so he'll find his way in for testing.
Also, the cascade (yes, pun intended) of responses imploring me to keep Drain will stay its execution for now. Guy is on notice, though. Underperforming for me, Drain!!
Ha ha, wow, I will give Mind's Desire a try, but on a short leash. We'll see what that puppy brings to the table. I look forward to being pleasantly surprised.
Quick oversights --I have noted that I plan to include Grim Monolith, Tooth and Nail, so rest assure those will be included. I cannot expect you to have gone through all my text with a fine toothed comb, I wrote an awful lot, so just a quick bit to clarify
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is a guy I'd have to get a hold of to test. I see a lot of downside to him, but I agree that there have to be so many nutty plays that I can't even think about right now that a dude that powerful is worth testing. Now, as for Zealous Conscripts... man, it is better with Kiki-Jiki, but that guy played his way right out of my deck, whereas Molten Primordial has consistently been a powerhouse. I'm have to keep an eye on that. I feel like in most non-Kiki situations I heavily prefer the Primordial, but every time he hits play for me (or sits in my hand), I'll be sure to ask "what if".
I can definitely see cutting Roil Elemental and Rampaging Baloths, as I have never actually gotten to have either enter play since I picked them up. The idea was to turn my excess land spells into business a la Avenger of Zendikar (totally not getting cut) and Lotus Cobra, but I agree that while they have a high ceiling, they also have a pretty low floor, and I cannot make a good argument that either is a better risk/reward than, say, Kiki-Jiki.
Now, on to the really interesting part. While my ramp plan has been working very well so far as consistent t4 Wandering, if what you are suggesting is equally consistent in terms of ramping and cuts down the total number of ramp spells, I would be an arrogant fool not to give it a try. Here's to hoping that advice works out! This should be especially easy to test since I can simply goldfish to test this for max repetition.
Thanks for all of the terrific suggestions. Even in the unlikely event that not a single one of them sticks, this lit a fire in my soul and gives me a lot to think about and refine. Good stuff, good stuff!!
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Ah yes, I might have gotten overexcited and accidentally some math there.
A 2-cmc that isn't Grim followed by a 4-cmc ramp spell that isn't Thran won't get you to 8 mana turn 4 by themselves, as you astutely pointed out. Having said that, neither will your current 3-cmc heavy setup. The reality is T4 MW requires either a sol ring, crypt, grim, thran, vault, or claim into another 1-2 cmc spell in order to net that extra 1 mana.
Both methods require that extra little oomph. Of course, MW still comes down turn 4 plenty of games because frankly we run a lot of cards that provide that oomph.
If you truly want consistent turn 4 wanderers, you have to accelerate everything by a turn. You need to cast palladium myrs turn 3 consistently, and to do that, you need dorks. Mounds of elvish dorks. If you're not willing to run dorks, your current setup is no faster than land-based ramp. So why not do that?
The only reason not to run creature-based ramp is that it's easier to disrupt. That's the trade-off. It's always one mana cheaper to get a creature with the same ramp value as a spell, but at the cost of fragility. If you don't anticipate much disruption, I recommend swapping all your 4-cmc ramp spells into "_____ elf" and go to town. Having said that, always remember that this deck has one goal every single game: ramp into MW. Until that happens, extra utility with swords, greater value off cascades, etc are all irrelevant. I don't care about ANYTHING except magic number 8. My opponents know this. They also know that keeping me off magic number 8 keeps them in the game. So they'll counter my ramp. Luckily, that's all they can do, since targeted land destruction is comparatively sparse. But if my ramp is creature based... oh boy. They're gonna **** that up. You open up a whole new avenue of disruption. What if someone casts Toxic Deluge turn three and kills your nantuko elder and birds of paradise? After they see you go bananas and win the game turn 5 once or twice, using that swords that they were saving for an eldrazi on your somberwald sage will start to look mighty attractive.
Rambling aside, that's basically it. Creature based ramp is easier to disrupt. If your meta doesn't take advantage of that, scale down your ramp into 1 cmc into 3 cmc creatures and go to town. Once your group has adjusted and hated out that strategy (which they will, or they will lose), I find 2 cmc into 4 cmc to be only a turn slower and far more difficult to interact with.
Edit: On the topic of broken ramp cards, I just noticed your landbase lacks an Ancient Tomb. That should go in regardless of your other choice of ramp.
Edit2: Because I suspect some pedant is going to have the gall to actually double-check my math again, duly note that 1-into-3 cmc dorks still only get you to seven. The point is that they open up turn 3 to cast any ramp spell in your deck, in contrast to 2-into-4, which only leaves turn 1 which has far fewer available plays.
Yes, Ancient Tomb is a very good suggestion. I saw it on Duck's list on that link and it got me to thinking. Pretty sure I used to have one. Not sure wtf I did with it
I think we can assuredly agree that the most important ramp spells are the 2+ mana spells on turns one and two. I didn't see Rofellos in his list, and that guy seems like he should be a house. I am also very interested to test my current ramp list with Carpet of Flowers, because that is another enabler of a turn two Palladium Myr guy.
For now I plan to keep refining my list in terms of the man-plan, but if either of my main metas starts to to hate off my dorks, or if I can find a Three Visits for trade or for cheap somewhere, I'll hop on testing the Rampant Growth strategy. I want to at least optimize my balance of rampers in this method before moving to a new one.
As long as I am seeing no hate for my guys, I think this strategy is a little more potentially explosive, especially with the addition of Carper (once I get one). Mana Crypt is brutally good with the plethora of 3cmc dorks, Carpet will drop them turn two, Vault hits Palladium Myr but none of the colored guys, and the two strategies operate the same off of Sol Ring. I am probably luck in some regard that no one hates my guys off, but it's a two sided coin, as no one hates them off because they are busy setting up as-or-more-powerful things. Cut-throat group o' blokes.
Edit: I highly recommend Somberwald Sage (and Rofellos) if you are doing a Rampant Growth build. Rampant + Sage = t4 Wanderer
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Thanks! What did you change?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
While that was Tazriel's quote, I'm gonna chime in on the fact that not more than 40 minutes ago I just picked up an Ancient Tomb and Carpet of Flowers for some testing. Really looking forward to those two cards in particular.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
The biggest thing from your list that's a potential oversight from mine is Garruk, Primal Hunter. Drawing 7 is cute and removal on Wanderer just lets us replay him, but his ultimate is win-more and his +1 is pretty awful. In comparison, Tamiyo's ultimate wins the game almost on its own, she can lock someone down, and she can draw cards too. A lot of the duel lists run her.
There's also a brutal version that runs Wildfire/Devastation/Burning of Xinye/Devastating Force on the theory that wiping the board and then resolving a hasty 7/5 general is good. The issue is that with 3-4 players, someone can float the mana and then deal with your general. Then you just have a table of people who really don't like you.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Fairly minor changes. I think I took out Sneak Attack (which it looks like you no longer run) for Peregrine Drake, which gave me redundancy for infinite mana via DEN, and also interacted nicely with Food Chain early game. I also took out Brutalizer Exarch to put in Venser, Shaper Savant. Primarily because he functions similarly to Exarch as a DEN win condition, and because I wanted a counter more than a tutor early game. Lots of turn 4 boseiju'ed T&Ns running around in my meta. I also ran Cavern of Souls for uncounterable MW and Avenger. Lots of people saved Hinder for MW, which was cramping my style. I didn't run Defense of the Heart, found it got removed too quickly. I also ran Time Spiral, which was insane. I kept Mulldrifter, which I see you cut. It wasn't the strongest card, but the first time I evoked it then sac it to food chain with the trigger on the stack, I was hooked. Definitely not necessary, though.
I agree about Fabricate, I simply have not gotten my hands on one yet. Basically Trinket Mage #2 with a little versatility.
Tez I'm on the fence about, because I don't want to be ramping at 5, I don't have a whole lot of business to search for that warrants him as a search card, and I don't like Planeswalkers that require me to ultimate in order to be effective. He may see testing if I end up with some slots available after I make some changes here in a bit.
Yeah, Garruk P is exclusively a draw spells, no two ways about it. And Tamiyo I would certainly look at if I were running a duel version, but it lacks power in multiplayer, imo.
I have also seen the Wildfire Wanderer lists, but opted otherwise because A) it is not my style and B) there is no way in my meta that I kill multiple people before it eats removal... if there is a good list in the forums somewhere let me know and I will link it in my OP.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Not sure I agree with the reasoning on Brutalizer Exarch: he's just versatile. Ie. Cascade him, put Kiki/DEN on top, then wipe people's boards. Next turn, you draw Palinchron, gg. Some people run Worldly Tutor and he's better on several fronts.
Venser is very very good. I'm cutting Defense for him. It's better on paper than in practice.
Time Spiral has been in and out. I don't like that it refills my opponents' hands in my ramp-heavy meta. Peregrine Drake also just didn't do enough.
I don't disagree on Cavern of Souls, but it's not clear to me what I should cut. Opal Palace hasn't been in very long, but I suspect that it's win-more. If I've cast Maelstrom enough times that it matters...I'm probably just winning.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
To address our conversation, I guess I just don't see the true value in Tez at that point. He isn't ramping, he isn't a particularly strong payoff card, his ultimate isn't that terrific. I don't doubt he is often good, he just screams "cuttable" to me.
I have never been particularly impress with Venser, because all of the guys who bounce or counter Wanderer the turn I play him don't allow me to attack or tap any of my other guys and sacrifices seven commander damage. It also means my mana for next turn is spent as well, and while another double cascade is excellent, I often just want to play spells, especially if I hit draw off of my other cascade. He is also not good if we used any of our artifacts that have to pay to untap to cast Wanderer.
Time Spiral I definitely agree on. I am allergic to giving my opponents cards. Simply not ok with it.
Cavern of Souls you all will have to let me know about. I am not thrilled about adding an NBL just to avoid tuck counters, especially as my list has no means of searching out utility lands. But one land slot is not a big sacrifice, and it does tap for any color. Let me know how it goes.
Opal Palace I simply cannot see being relevant. It slows you down to tap for color, and he already kills in three hits. With a sword and Palace on the second casting I guess he kills in two hits, but I see it being more inhibitive than beneficial.
Tazriel, if you post you list, I will link it to my OP as well.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
If you're looking for cascade-friendly counterspells, I use Hinder and Plasm Capture in my build to great effect.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I feel like if I were building more of a mid-range value engine style of deck the bounce cards would be better. However, my goal is to kill everyone on turn 4 or 5. The bounce guys really hinder that plan, and in my meta, give people too much time to either a) come up with answers or b) take infinite/functionally infinite turns and kill me. I figure if we apply pressure with Wanderer they either have to kill him, which allows us to recast him without spending our cards to do so, or they die to the onslaught.
I originally wanted to keep a number of counterspells in the deck, but the more I play it, the more I realize this build is much too proactive to be holding back mana. I always want to be using all of my mana on my turn, which leaves only Mana Drain as a potential counter that I want to use (or possibly Force of Will/Pact of Negation if I find a dire need to add counters to the list). Plasm Capture I like in theory, but since I never leave :symg::symg::symu::symu: open in this build, it is only ever a Crystal Shard type of effect and never a counter to help save my ass.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Different mindsets breed different creativity, though. I appreciate any input, especially from an outside perspective that I might not otherwise have access to. I'll have to give your list a look and see what you have going on
Edit: It looks like your unicorn avatar is staring in disbelief at my poptart kitty. I find that very amusing,
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Well, flying poptart kitties that poop rainbows are pretty amazing.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
See, this is interesting. If I am playing in a game with more than four total people, I sure hope someone does something big and wins by turn 5-6 at the latest. Going to turn eight with eight people is like playing a 32 turn game in a duel, except you can't see what half of the people are doing
But for me, the best way to keep the locals from getting too salty is simple: I let them play my other decks. I make sure to carry around 3-4 other decks around the same level as the one I am trying to tune, and if they are always free to use them if they would like. While explosive, Wanderer is certainly not the best of my decks (I am the keeper of my and my brother's EDH decks), I just find it to be the most fun to play. And if I am sitting down with my competitive group, I am definitely not playing the best deck in the match.
That said, advising you to build a bunch of other decks as good or better than the one you are trying to run is not great economical advice. If you don't have the spare cards lying around, I don't really know what to tell you. My other thing is that if no one has decks up to par, I tell them I just want to play one game with Wanderer to test out my recent changes and evaluate the state it's in, and then I play with my lower tier decks afterward. If you have no other decks at all, maybe play one of theirs? If they have no other decks... uh, you sound pretty screwed.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer