Because it was released December of 2014, almost a year and a half ago, and I'm just now posting in here about it.
For a primer I understand questions about the inclusion of cards from the last set or 2, I assume I either missed its discussion or it wasn't worth even discussing.
Edit: I should have used quote instead of reply, this post was in response to Serberus_08's reply to my question.
I see what you're saying I just don't think it's that old personally. Also people suggest 'older' cards all that time, and the age of a card doesn't matter so much as long as it's a valid suggestion.
More towards that actual removal question, I think that Naya has a handful of better removal spells mainly Chaos Warp (although not as powerful due to anti tuck), Beast Within is a personal favourite, and Oblation (same as chaos warp) for the same CMC. I think that Song of the Dryads is on the weaker side, mainly because it's a lot like Oring/Banishing Light because they can be destroyed giving back the removed items. Unless you run Sterling Grove to prevent targeting, but then you're moving to enchantress-y stuff and away from the Marath synergy and strategy which will make you less consistent and such.
A lot of this updated is centered around cards that were conditionally effective, as well as cutting down on the token theme I had, because I've cut back on a lot of the support for it over the last year. I've also removed the Kiki/Great Oak Guardian combo, because while I do still feel the deck needs a non-combat oriented win condition, I disliked feeling obligated to tutor for them constantly.
In their place, I've added in Mana Echoes and Earthcraft for some of Marath's more traditional combo pieces. They are more difficult to pull off, but don't leave me feeling quite as bored. I also have added more generically good cards that don't rely so heavily on having a specific board state to be useful.
---
I realize I never discussed Shadows over Innistrad in much depth, but to be honest the set didn't have many interesting cards. There were a lot of cards that could potentially fit into different deck setups, but nothing that really stood out as super amazing. EMA, on the other hand, gave us a lot of solid reprints like Enlightened Tutor for players who may not have been able to get a hold of them before now.
I've also updated the OP of the primer to include a quick guide to how some of the more common combos work, as it was something I'd seen requested a few times on Reddit and the like.
Great choices all - I've been using most of them in my list for quite some time. I've appreciated Earthcraft so much, I've tossed Cryptolith Rite in and it's good so far.
Hi great deck! I built it and its really a strong one. I just have a few questions. What do you think about Cultivate rather than Exploration? It seems useless on mid to end games. It only seems useful when I get it early.
2nd, what do you think about Primal Vigor rather than Hardened Scales when used in a very timely manner?
I've been running both cultivate and kodama's reach in the deck for years, and they're unlikely to get cut before enemy fetches are reprinted. It's guaranteed card advantage, and you should be thirsty enough for mana that you still want the lands in the mid to late game.
Realistically Vigor benefits you much more than 90% of opponents, but I wouldn't cut Scales for it. Scales is one of the most mana efficient cards in the deck and is only like a dollar, which makes it one of the most money efficient cards to boot. I would recommend Vigor if and only if you can't afford Doubling Season.
I am also running both kodama and I liked what it does than what exploration/burgeoning does on green decks.
I am already running Doubling Season, I am just curious of putting together Vigor and Doubling Season than Scales although yes I agree that nothing can beat Scales in efficiency.
Hi great deck! I built it and its really a strong one. I just have a few questions. What do you think about Cultivate rather than Exploration? It seems useless on mid to end games. It only seems useful when I get it early.
It is also nice when you've got wheel or other draw effects (something I've been trying to increase in my deck), in addition to potentially granting you a turn 2 Marath. I have a few sorcery ramp spells, so I wanted to add in at least one more 'extra land per turn' static effect.
2nd, what do you think about Primal Vigor rather than Hardened Scales when used in a very timely manner?
Thank you would appreciate your insight.
I'm generally not a fan of Primal Vigor unless you're going all in on the combo theme. It has a lot of potential to backfire otherwise, and I definitely wouldn't want to swap out Hardened Scales. It's a low mana spell that, with nothing else, at least lets you refill the counters on Marath early on so that you don't need to worry about recasting him, and can even just help you work on taking out your biggest threat with general damage. I think it's too important to cut, even if it isn't as splashy as something like Doubling Season.
I don't have a full up to date list online, but Worn Powerstone is probably the next card that was on the block.
It's not that Seasons Past is a bad card, on the contrary. But what does it bring to your deck you desperately need? What hole does it fill? Wouldn't you get more mileage out of pure draw like Shamanic Revelation?
I don't have a full up to date list online, but Worn Powerstone is probably the next card that was on the block.
Scrying is good, but I'm a huge fan of Crop Rotation if you have high-end lands to support it.
I'm a huge fan of Spike Weaver in this deck. It's incredible.
It's not that Seasons Past is a bad card, on the contrary. But what does it bring to your deck you desperately need? What hole does it fill? Wouldn't you get more mileage out of pure draw like Shamanic Revelation?
I run Revelation and Seasons Past. Seasons has allowed me to traverse twice in one turn for both halves of a Kikki combo, but it seems to be one of those cards that likes to hide from me, so I don't get to cast it much. I don't have a feel for how many cards I can reasonably expect out of it.
@burntgerbil
Running both is not out of the question, but I would rather pay 1 than sac a land. Scrying comes in first outside of Titania decks.
@burntgerbil
Running both is not out of the question, but I would rather pay 1 than sac a land. Scrying comes in first outside of Titania decks.
For me, the cost difference is less relevant than them being sorcery vs. instant. Being instant is often worth more than worth the sac and the 1 to me.
@Airithne: have you considered Nature's Lore instead of Farseek? It can get you an untapped dual.
Both are good, I've been running Farseek because W/R lands are ones I typically have more problems getting access too. I should probably try out Nature's Lore after adding in three fetchlands, however.
Season's Past is one I've been thinking about (I'm not sure where it would go, though), but it's one I need to figure out how much value I'd actually be getting out of first.
Has anyone tested Selvala, Heart of the Wilds in Marath? You can respond to the trigger and put counters on the creatures that enters the battlefield so you can draw a card or just ensure that your creatures are larger as opponents creatures enter the battlefield. And the mana ability seems just absurd.
Opinions?
I think Animation module could be interesting because of its low casting cost, however it essentially enables "2: Put a 1/1 into play" and I don't know if that's strong enough to warrant an inclusion. If you run a planeswalker-heavy list, there's more of an argument, of course.
Has anyone tested Selvala, Heart of the Wilds in Marath? You can respond to the trigger and put counters on the creatures that enters the battlefield so you can draw a card or just ensure that your creatures are larger as opponents creatures enter the battlefield. And the mana ability seems just absurd.
I haven't gotten one yet but I think she's good. Turn one dork, turn two Selvala, turn three Marath draw a card and have three mana available.
I'm not sure how I feel about Selvala. She competes with Marath on turn 3, barring a super good start, and her effect being global has a lot of potential to backfire.
I'm not sure how I feel about Selvala. She competes with Marath on turn 3, barring a super good start, and her effect being global has a lot of potential to backfire.
Counterpoint: Marath is infinitely reusable and is bigger each time he enters the battlefield. That means you will usually have access to the biggest creature in the mid to late game to draw cards and the mana ability scales up with Marath's size. The more I think about it the more I think she's just perfect for this deck.
That was exactly my line of thinking. There is probably no other deck that can play around the effect being global as well as Marath and also no other commander that can potentially extract the maximum value from the first ability. And even if an opponent may draw some cards of her, we are the ones who have access to that crazy mana ability.
A random chance to draw one card or give my opponents a free card is not where competition with Marath's casting cost wants to be. That said though, the second ability is the one that makes or breaks the card. If you can get this out with Marath (and this is where the clunkiness of the casting costs becomes apparent) and guarantee X = 3 most of the time, you're in a decent place. Like, a turn two Selvala followed up by turn three Marath + another three drop (plus maybe draw a card) is a great play, and not too far from average case scenario. If you can get this out with a fat Marath in the mid to late game, making anything more than 3 mana is amazing.
My notifications for this thread got buried among other things, and I'm sorry. >.<
I just generally don't like the somewhat symmetrical nature of Selvala, but I run a slower control drck, so I'm often stuck when it comes to excess mana, as well as playing in a meta where I would often have to fight for having the biggest creature of field, even against another Marathon list. I think she has her place in some lists, I don't believe my particular set up is one of them.
My notifications for this thread got buried among other things, and I'm sorry. >.<
I just generally don't like the somewhat symmetrical nature of Selvala, but I run a slower control drck, so I'm often stuck when it comes to excess mana, as well as playing in a meta where I would often have to fight for having the biggest creature of field, even against another Marathon list. I think she has her place in some lists, I don't believe my particular set up is one of them.
Oh geez, haha. I got a new phone, and it hasn't kept up with all of the MTG names very well. Expect typos in card names until I can get it up to speed!
I see what you're saying I just don't think it's that old personally. Also people suggest 'older' cards all that time, and the age of a card doesn't matter so much as long as it's a valid suggestion.
More towards that actual removal question, I think that Naya has a handful of better removal spells mainly Chaos Warp (although not as powerful due to anti tuck), Beast Within is a personal favourite, and Oblation (same as chaos warp) for the same CMC. I think that Song of the Dryads is on the weaker side, mainly because it's a lot like Oring/Banishing Light because they can be destroyed giving back the removed items. Unless you run Sterling Grove to prevent targeting, but then you're moving to enchantress-y stuff and away from the Marath synergy and strategy which will make you less consistent and such.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Out
Anger
Genesis
Great-Oak Guardian
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Parallel Lives
Secure the Wastes
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
In
Earthcraft
Exploration
Fires of Yavimaya
Mana Echoes
Natural Order
Wheel of Fortune
Xenagos, God of Revels
A lot of this updated is centered around cards that were conditionally effective, as well as cutting down on the token theme I had, because I've cut back on a lot of the support for it over the last year. I've also removed the Kiki/Great Oak Guardian combo, because while I do still feel the deck needs a non-combat oriented win condition, I disliked feeling obligated to tutor for them constantly.
In their place, I've added in Mana Echoes and Earthcraft for some of Marath's more traditional combo pieces. They are more difficult to pull off, but don't leave me feeling quite as bored. I also have added more generically good cards that don't rely so heavily on having a specific board state to be useful.
---
I realize I never discussed Shadows over Innistrad in much depth, but to be honest the set didn't have many interesting cards. There were a lot of cards that could potentially fit into different deck setups, but nothing that really stood out as super amazing. EMA, on the other hand, gave us a lot of solid reprints like Enlightened Tutor for players who may not have been able to get a hold of them before now.
I've also updated the OP of the primer to include a quick guide to how some of the more common combos work, as it was something I'd seen requested a few times on Reddit and the like.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
2nd, what do you think about Primal Vigor rather than Hardened Scales when used in a very timely manner?
Thank you would appreciate your insight.
Realistically Vigor benefits you much more than 90% of opponents, but I wouldn't cut Scales for it. Scales is one of the most mana efficient cards in the deck and is only like a dollar, which makes it one of the most money efficient cards to boot. I would recommend Vigor if and only if you can't afford Doubling Season.
I am already running Doubling Season, I am just curious of putting together Vigor and Doubling Season than Scales although yes I agree that nothing can beat Scales in efficiency.
It is also nice when you've got wheel or other draw effects (something I've been trying to increase in my deck), in addition to potentially granting you a turn 2 Marath. I have a few sorcery ramp spells, so I wanted to add in at least one more 'extra land per turn' static effect.
I'm generally not a fan of Primal Vigor unless you're going all in on the combo theme. It has a lot of potential to backfire otherwise, and I definitely wouldn't want to swap out Hardened Scales. It's a low mana spell that, with nothing else, at least lets you refill the counters on Marath early on so that you don't need to worry about recasting him, and can even just help you work on taking out your biggest threat with general damage. I think it's too important to cut, even if it isn't as splashy as something like Doubling Season.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
out:
In:
I don't have a full up to date list online, but Worn Powerstone is probably the next card that was on the block.
It's not that Seasons Past is a bad card, on the contrary. But what does it bring to your deck you desperately need? What hole does it fill? Wouldn't you get more mileage out of pure draw like Shamanic Revelation?
Scrying is good, but I'm a huge fan of Crop Rotation if you have high-end lands to support it.
I'm a huge fan of Spike Weaver in this deck. It's incredible.
I run Revelation and Seasons Past. Seasons has allowed me to traverse twice in one turn for both halves of a Kikki combo, but it seems to be one of those cards that likes to hide from me, so I don't get to cast it much. I don't have a feel for how many cards I can reasonably expect out of it.
@burntgerbil
Running both is not out of the question, but I would rather pay 1 than sac a land. Scrying comes in first outside of Titania decks.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
For me, the cost difference is less relevant than them being sorcery vs. instant. Being instant is often worth more than worth the sac and the 1 to me.
Season's Past is one I've been thinking about (I'm not sure where it would go, though), but it's one I need to figure out how much value I'd actually be getting out of first.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Opinions?
I think Animation module could be interesting because of its low casting cost, however it essentially enables "2: Put a 1/1 into play" and I don't know if that's strong enough to warrant an inclusion. If you run a planeswalker-heavy list, there's more of an argument, of course.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
I'm not sure how I feel about Selvala. She competes with Marath on turn 3, barring a super good start, and her effect being global has a lot of potential to backfire.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I think that in that case redundancy is always a good thing Did you check any other recently spoiled cards for Marath?
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Counterpoint: Marath is infinitely reusable and is bigger each time he enters the battlefield. That means you will usually have access to the biggest creature in the mid to late game to draw cards and the mana ability scales up with Marath's size. The more I think about it the more I think she's just perfect for this deck.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
I just generally don't like the somewhat symmetrical nature of Selvala, but I run a slower control drck, so I'm often stuck when it comes to excess mana, as well as playing in a meta where I would often have to fight for having the biggest creature of field, even against another Marathon list. I think she has her place in some lists, I don't believe my particular set up is one of them.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
What are the colors of the Marathon Commander?
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf