Thinking of building this as my third EDH deck. Thoughts on new Chandra and the recently spoiled Arlinn?
If you have open slots, Chandra, Firebrand is a solid inclusion. She does get stronger in two and (especially) mono-colored lists, but her abilities are solid. I tend to prefer Elspeth, Sun's Champion, as they occupy similar slots and while you miss the card draw, Elspeth has built in protection.
Arlinn Kord // Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon I'm not sure I can give an objective answer to at the moment, just because I really adore her as a card on a personal level. She has the upside of being very flexible which is ideally something that I'd want in this kind of deck, but he drawback is that she's slow. The requirement to flip even makes her fail the Doubling Season check. However, she has a nice set of abilities, giving you access to a combination of a small, large scale pump effect, a targeted pump effect, tokens, and a lightning bolt without even factoring in her ult. The ability to flip her at will (unlike Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed) is also a plus.
Thinking of building this as my third EDH deck. Thoughts on new Chandra and the recently spoiled Arlinn?
If you have open slots, Chandra, Firebrand is a solid inclusion. She does get stronger in two and (especially) mojo-colored lists, but her abilities are solid. I tend to prefer Elspeth, Sun's Champion, as they occupy similar slots and while you miss the card draw, Elspeth has built in protection.
Arlinn Kord // Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon I'm not sure I can give an objective answer to at the moment, just because I really adore her as a card on a personal level. She has the upside of being very flexible which is ideally something that I'd want in this kind of deck, but he drawback is that she's slow. The requirement to flip even makes her fail the Doubling Season check. However, she has a nice set of abilities, giving you access to a combination of a small, large scale pump effect, a targeted pump effect, tokens, and a lightning bolt without even factoring in her ult. The ability to flip her at will (unlike Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed) is also a plus.
It's hard to say more without testing her though.
Agreed. I'm having visions of curving from Arlinn, flipped, into Chandra and pumping an entire team of large tokens in standard. With Xenegos, it seems bonkers. Might have to try it out! I appreciate the thoughts. I really think she has a nice "toolbox" of utility but who knows how that always plays out, right?
I really like both of the Planeswalkers spoiled in SOI for Marath.
Nahiri filters if you're flooded/need a combo piece.
Gets rid of a pesky enchantment/potentially an artifact/or creature
If you cast her with doublling season you can ult right away--Playing Emrakul/Blightsteel/etc
Arlin is a nice add to token builds
Make a token to flip her, anthem all your guys a few turns or cast her off doublingn season, ult on her 2nd turn out
Emblem acts as a haste enabler and a win con.
I run a fairly combo heavy build. The goal is always to win via horde effect while building towards infinite guys/damage. Part of making the combo work is a very heavy enchantment build.
1. Any advice on the mana base would be appreciated. It started as a pre-con and as I've gathered lands that fit, they've gone in. There are still some crap stragglers though. I've thought about going from Temples to Battle Lands/tangos. Is the scry 1 THAT good in a 100 card deck? What else needs to go? I'd obviously like to get the other 2 duals and fetches, but that'll come with time.
Any feedback on potential adds/cuts would be greatly appreciated
2. Cards I'm considering cutting:
a. Defense of the Heart. Too easy to blow up. A lot of decks aren't that creature heavy.
b. Warstorm Surge: The idea is to go infinite, but more often than not--I do a few points of damage here and there. With Purphoros and Impact tremors in the deck--is the 3rd worth it at cmc 6?
c. Assemble the Legion--does things if unchecked, but at 5 cmc and taking several turns to get going--definitely slow
d. Bow of Nylea--I like the swiss army knife ability of it, but none of the effects are that powerful.
e. Fervor. There to enable haste--with other haste enablers--it's just awkward at times.
f. Elesh Norn--feels very win more.
g. Armageddon--the idea was always get a ton of dudes with cradle/altars and blow up lands. More often than not I have Amageddon w/o position
h. Plea for Guidance--can tutor up earthcraft/squirrel nest combo, or whatever else I need. At 6, it often has to eat an entire turn.
i. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes--counters are ok, I really liked him for the Look at the top 4 cards--I just don't run enough creatures/planeswalkers anymore to make him consistent.
j. Mind's eye--I just often tap out to advance the board state, and 4 to cast it followed by the activation cost--just always seems underwhelming when I have it.
I run a fairly combo heavy build. The goal is always to win via horde effect while building towards infinite guys/damage. Part of making the combo work is a very heavy enchantment build.
1. Any advice on the mana base would be appreciated. It started as a pre-con and as I've gathered lands that fit, they've gone in. There are still some crap stragglers though. I've thought about going from Temples to Battle Lands/tangos. Is the scry 1 THAT good in a 100 card deck? What else needs to go? I'd obviously like to get the other 2 duals and fetches, but that'll come with time.
Generally, I rate my lands like this: ABUR Duels > Fetch Lands*= Shock Lands > Checks=Tango Lands* > Temples=Filter Lands* > Pretty much everything else
Fetch lands are a matter of price, I’m less likely to use them in U/x/x/ decks, for that reason, especially if I need enemy colored versions. I only run Tango Lands in decks like my list for Marath, where I have a lot of fetch lands, as well as cards that care about land type and enough basics to comfortably use them. Otherwise, I default to check lands. Filters are in the same boat as Fetch Lands, I use them if I have them, otherwise I use temples (or both, in some decks if I have the room). The scry is actually pretty solid and they’re one of the best ETB tapped lands in the format, in my personal opinion.
a. Defense of the Heart. Too easy to blow up. A lot of decks aren't that creature heavy.
I wouldn’t worry too much about Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail unless you either have a higher density of creatures, or some way to instantly win in your creature suite without a board presence (think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos). Defense is definitely a potential cut if your group can’t consistently trigger it.
b. Warstorm Surge: The idea is to go infinite, but more often than not--I do a few points of damage here and there. With Purphoros and Impact tremors in the deck--is the 3rd worth it at cmc 6?
I generally lean towards no if you’re just using it as a combo finisher. It’s quite expensive, and you’re not getting much out of it with your current list if you’re not winning.
c. Assemble the Legion--does things if unchecked, but at 5 cmc and taking several turns to get going--definitely slow
d. Bow of Nylea--I like the swiss army knife ability of it, but none of the effects are that powerful.
I agree with both of these cuts, but I’d look in to other ways to get deathtouch in place of Bow. It’s invaluable to be able to kill most creatures at will for 1 and a +1/+1 counter. Basilisk’s Collar, Nighshade Peddler, and Gorgon’s Head are examples of decent cards you could slot in.
e. Fervor. There to enable haste--with other haste enablers--it's just awkward at times.
I’d cut Anger first, as you don’t have anything like Survival of the Fittest or Fauna Shaman in your list, which means he really costs 5R and two +1/+1 counters in most situations.
f. Elesh Norn--feels very win more.
This one depends on your group, but remember that she can just be a board wipe that you can easily tutor in the colors in many situations. That said, if you feel she doesn’t do enough, go ahead and cut her.
g. Armageddon--the idea was always get a ton of dudes with cradle/altars and blow up lands. More often than not I have Amageddon w/o position
I’d agree that this probably isn’t the deck for Armageddon. It interfere’s with your combos, and you’re not enough of an aggro deck to take advantage of the mana denial.
h. Plea for Guidance--can tutor up earthcraft/squirrel nest combo, or whatever else I need. At 6, it often has to eat an entire turn.
It does also tutor your other combo pieces like Mana Echoes and Cathar's Crusade, but Idyllic Tutor might be a good alternative to look in to, if you can afford it.
i. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes--counters are ok, I really liked him for the Look at the top 4 cards--I just don't run enough creatures/planeswalkers anymore to make him consistent.
j. Mind's eye--I just often tap out to advance the board state, and 4 to cast it followed by the activation cost--just always seems underwhelming when I have it.
I cut Ajani, because while he’s great in theory, he tends to fall flat in practice. Mind's Eye you could potentially replace with something like Harmonize for immediate straight up card draw.
I’d also look into cards like Illusionist's Bracers, for a bit more combo density. Grand Abolisher might also be a nice addition to protect your turn while you try to win. I also like Bloom Tender as a 2 drop mana dork, over the two you have listed, as it's a bit more impactful.
I run a fairly combo heavy build. The goal is always to win via horde effect while building towards infinite guys/damage. Part of making the combo work is a very heavy enchantment build.
1. Any advice on the mana base would be appreciated. It started as a pre-con and as I've gathered lands that fit, they've gone in. There are still some crap stragglers though. I've thought about going from Temples to Battle Lands/tangos. Is the scry 1 THAT good in a 100 card deck? What else needs to go? I'd obviously like to get the other 2 duals and fetches, but that'll come with time.
Generally, I rate my lands like this: ABUR Duels > Fetch Lands*= Shock Lands > Checks=Tango Lands* > Temples=Filter Lands* > Pretty much everything else
Fetch lands are a matter of price, I’m less likely to use them in U/x/x/ decks, for that reason, especially if I need enemy colored versions. I only run Tango Lands in decks like my list for Marath, where I have a lot of fetch lands, as well as cards that care about land type and enough basics to comfortably use them. Otherwise, I default to check lands. Filters are in the same boat as Fetch Lands, I use them if I have them, otherwise I use temples (or both, in some decks if I have the room). The scry is actually pretty solid and they’re one of the best ETB tapped lands in the format, in my personal opinion.
a. Defense of the Heart. Too easy to blow up. A lot of decks aren't that creature heavy.
I wouldn’t worry too much about Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail unless you either have a higher density of creatures, or some way to instantly win in your creature suite without a board presence (think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos). Defense is definitely a potential cut if your group can’t consistently trigger it.
b. Warstorm Surge: The idea is to go infinite, but more often than not--I do a few points of damage here and there. With Purphoros and Impact tremors in the deck--is the 3rd worth it at cmc 6?
I generally lean towards no if you’re just using it as a combo finisher. It’s quite expensive, and you’re not getting much out of it with your current list if you’re not winning.
c. Assemble the Legion--does things if unchecked, but at 5 cmc and taking several turns to get going--definitely slow
d. Bow of Nylea--I like the swiss army knife ability of it, but none of the effects are that powerful.
I agree with both of these cuts, but I’d look in to other ways to get deathtouch in place of Bow. It’s invaluable to be able to kill most creatures at will for 1 and a +1/+1 counter. Basilisk’s Collar, Nighshade Peddler, and Gorgon’s Head are examples of decent cards you could slot in.
e. Fervor. There to enable haste--with other haste enablers--it's just awkward at times.
I’d cut Anger first, as you don’t have anything like Survival of the Fittest or Fauna Shaman in your list, which means he really costs 5R and two +1/+1 counters in most situations.
f. Elesh Norn--feels very win more.
This one depends on your group, but remember that she can just be a board wipe that you can easily tutor in the colors in many situations. That said, if you feel she doesn’t do enough, go ahead and cut her.
g. Armageddon--the idea was always get a ton of dudes with cradle/altars and blow up lands. More often than not I have Amageddon w/o position
I’d agree that this probably isn’t the deck for Armageddon. It interfere’s with your combos, and you’re not enough of an aggro deck to take advantage of the mana denial.
h. Plea for Guidance--can tutor up earthcraft/squirrel nest combo, or whatever else I need. At 6, it often has to eat an entire turn.
It does also tutor your other combo pieces like Mana Echoes and Cathar's Crusade, but Idyllic Tutor might be a good alternative to look in to, if you can afford it.
i. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes--counters are ok, I really liked him for the Look at the top 4 cards--I just don't run enough creatures/planeswalkers anymore to make him consistent.
j. Mind's eye--I just often tap out to advance the board state, and 4 to cast it followed by the activation cost--just always seems underwhelming when I have it.
I cut Ajani, because while he’s great in theory, he tends to fall flat in practice. Mind's Eye you could potentially replace with something like Harmonize for immediate straight up card draw.
I’d also look into cards like Illusionist's Bracers, for a bit more combo density. Grand Abolisher might also be a nice addition to protect your turn while you try to win. I also like Bloom Tender as a 2 drop mana dork, over the two you have listed, as it's a bit more impactful.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I tried and tried to deck tag it, and it would only show the land base as a "deck."
I don't know why I haven't been running Illusionist bracers. I've considered Grand Abolisher for a long time. Dromoka definitely gets it done, and the same for 2 is nice. Bloom Tinder seems good as well.
Other cards I'm considering: After earlier discussions here, Garruk Wildspeaker seems like a must. Mina and Dinn Wildspeaker also seem ridiculous with Cradle/Sanctum/Wrath effects. I've considered adding other multiple lands creatures--Azusa/Oracle of Mul Daya/Courser of Kruphix. I figure ramping is always good, and getting lands into player=more quickly drawing into combo pieces. And Maybe an Eternal Witness?
Definitely need a Krosan Grip as well.
I'm hoping to hit up one of the upcoming SCG opens or grand prixs and pick up some HP Revised duals on the cheap.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I tried and tried to deck tag it, and it would only show the land base as a "deck."
No problem! To make deck tags work, you have to put a number before each card (I use the number to represent the CMC of the card, but putting 1x or something similar to show the quantity is also acceptable). So this:
[deck]Commander (1)
3 Marath, Will of the Wild[/deck]
Other cards I'm considering: After earlier discussions here, Garruk Wildspeaker seems like a must. Mina and Dinn Wildspeaker also seem ridiculous with Cradle/Sanctum/Wrath effects. I've considered adding other multiple lands creatures--Azusa/Oracle of Mul Daya/Courser of Kruphix. I figure ramping is always good, and getting lands into player=more quickly drawing into combo pieces. And Maybe an Eternal Witness?
Definitely need a Krosan Grip as well.
Adding in Azusa and Courser might be over kill, mainly because we're limited in the number of ways we can draw cards in our colors. I'd probably go for something like Knight of the Reliquary before Course, if only because playing lands off of the top of your library is nice, but Knight can color fix you, or just grab your best lands. It gets better the more dual lands that you include, as well.
It's certainly a nice addition for the decks that are already running Mana Echoes or Earthcraft, but Burntgerbil is correct in that it really needs haste to do anything particularly broken.
That said, if you can get haste, it is a nice back up combo if your other fail.
As you can clearly see I wanted to add cards from all aspects of the primer shell. Could City of Solitude and Gahiji, Honored One fit?
What I like about Marath is the inevitability. One way or another he will control the battlefield. Any suggestions are welcome!
It's certainly a nice addition for the decks that are already running Mana Echoes or Earthcraft, but Burntgerbil is correct in that it really needs haste to do anything particularly broken.
That said, if you can get haste, it is a nice back up combo if your other fail.
I think even without haste and any combo this is very powerful in a token deck. Playing this on turn two, it can generate crazy amounts of mana (much more than any Rampant Growth effect, which has the same casting cost). Also, it will act like a ritual if there are a few creatures already around when we cast it. If a deck wants to play Earthcraft (and I think most Marath decks do), it probably also wants this card, not to mention that Cryptolith Ritual will probably cost less than a tenth of what Earthcraft costs, considering budget.
As you can clearly see I wanted to add cards from all aspects of the primer shell. Could City of Solitude and Gahiji, Honored One fit?
What I like about Marath is the inevitability. One way or another he will control the battlefield. Any suggestions are welcome!
I would definitely suggest Hardened Scales which is just all kinds of powerful with Marath. Also Omnath, Locus of Rage seems better than Stalking Vengeance considering that Marath pumps out large numbers of little elementals. While you don't benefit from most of your other creatures dying, the 1/1 elementals will go out with a much bigger bang, not to mention that Omnath churns out 5/5 beaters as well, especially considering the amount of ramp you run.
I also think your landbase needs some work. I can understand if you are on a budget but about half of your lands enter the battlefield tapped. That will severely hamper the power of your deck. I can understand if you want to work on a budget or with what you have, but I would really consider to invest in some battle lands, check lands, shock lands or whatnot. They will likely hold their value and be worthwhile in many decks. For the time being I would consider to cut some of the worse options (like the Timberland Ruins and Elfhame Palace and other of that sort) and replace them with more basics, because from what it looks like, the fact that so many of your lands ETB tapped will hinder you more than not getting your colors online.
I would definitely suggest Hardened Scales which is just all kinds of powerful with Marath. Also Omnath, Locus of Rage seems better than Stalking Vengeance considering that Marath pumps out large numbers of little elementals. While you don't benefit from most of your other creatures dying, the 1/1 elementals will go out with a much bigger bang, not to mention that Omnath churns out 5/5 beaters as well, especially considering the amount of ramp you run.
I also think your landbase needs some work. I can understand if you are on a budget but about half of your lands enter the battlefield tapped. That will severely hamper the power of your deck. I can understand if you want to work on a budget or with what you have, but I would really consider to invest in some battle lands, check lands, shock lands or whatnot. They will likely hold their value and be worthwhile in many decks. For the time being I would consider to cut some of the worse options (like the Timberland Ruins and Elfhame Palace and other of that sort) and replace them with more basics, because from what it looks like, the fact that so many of your lands ETB tapped will hinder you more than not getting your colors online.
Thank you for pointing out the synergy with Omnath, I didn't notice it . As for Hardened Scales ,it's in my list.
What about City of Solitude or other possible additions?
I generally try to build my paper decks on a budget, meaning that I am not inclined to spend money for ABU duals, Sylvan libraries, expensive fetchlands etc. This deck is new so I built the landbase from leftovers from my collection. I will slowly upgrade the worst lands into painlands etc. For the time being I wanted to check the color balance not the speed
As you can clearly see I wanted to add cards from all aspects of the primer shell. Could City of Solitude and Gahiji, Honored One fit?
What I like about Marath is the inevitability. One way or another he will control the battlefield. Any suggestions are welcome!
I'd maybe look into either cutting Sunforger, or upping your instant package a bit, just so that there's a bit of flexibility in what you grab. I'm on my phone, so it's a bit harder to make recommendations. I'll see what I can edit in later.
I think even without haste and any combo this is very powerful in a token deck. Playing this on turn two, it can generate crazy amounts of mana (much more than any Rampant Growth effect, which has the same casting cost). Also, it will act like a ritual if there are a few creatures already around when we cast it. If a deck wants to play Earthcraft (and I think most Marath decks do), it probably also wants this card, not to mention that Cryptolith Ritual will probably cost less than a tenth of what Earthcraft costs, considering budget.
I wasn't calling it a bad card, but people who are considering it as am addition should be aware that it is much slower without haste. It's also more susceptible to board wipes than Earthcraft if you don't have access to a haste enabler out.
Again, this doesn't make it bad, but those are things that should be kept in mind.
I am thinking of taking out Sunforger completely as well. Although I rarely saw it, most of the times I'd use it to cast Eladamri's Call for another creature. I think I want to add more control / grind oriented cards. This primer is amazing by the way!
I am thinking of taking out Sunforger completely as well. Although I rarely saw it, most of the times I'd use it to cast Eladamri's Call for another creature. I think I want to add more control / grind oriented cards. This primer is amazing by the way!
Sorry I missed replying to this. >.<
I typically like to make sure I have a full suite of things to grab with cards like Stoneforge Mystic and Sunforger before running them, so I tend to get a little biased in that regard, but I'd agree that if you aren't using it to its full potential as a toolbox card, that slot might be better served otherwise. ^.^ And thank you!
After a few games of Duskwatch Recruiter in both my Marath and Mono Green decks, I'll say that they're performing admirably as low-cost acceleration early on and instant-speed card draw mid to late game.
I'm definitely a fan of keeping everything in my decks on the lower end of the CMC spectrum - so this card has really hit the sweet spot for me and I hope it continues to.
SOI seems to be a really good EDH set. I'm currently testing Traverse the Ulvenwald and Seasons Past in Marath and could see both of them sticking. Traverse is bad around turns 4-6 when you probably don't want to get a basic or have delirium, but it makes the deck a bit more mulligan resistant and functions similarly to GSZ late. Seasons is just insane. I got 5 for 1 with it twice in the same limited game because of the fact that it tucks instead of exiling itself. Haven't cast it in EDH yet, but I'm looking forward to it. I also want to give Tireless Tracker a test run since immediately dropping a fetch and making two clues seems really solid early on.
I don't have a Nihiri to play with, but I can't see her being bad in most lists.
I'm intrigued to try out Duskwatch Recruiter, if only because it looks interesting. I also managed to pick up a copy of Arlinn Kord // Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon, so I'll be testing that for the next little while. I do still need to put together a review, and then figure out exactly what I need to pick up for all of my decks, but it might be a pay check or two before I can pick up new cards, so that might be a bit late. ^.^;
Duskwatch Recruiter was fantastic in my draft last week. It really gets nuts if you can pair it up with Oracle or Courser because they help each other hit.
I know it's an old card, but have you tested Song of the Dryads? Or does the other removal available for Naya make it not a good option?
I haven't tested it, but I think it comes down to what you want to get out of your removal. I like to keep as much of my spot removal at instant as possible. In our games, I may not get the chance to untap to lock something down. I also don't have to worry as much about things coming back from the graveyard. I do have to worry about enchantment removal, however.
Because it was released December of 2014, almost a year and a half ago, and I'm just now posting in here about it.
For a primer I understand questions about the inclusion of cards from the last set or 2, I assume I either missed its discussion or it wasn't worth even discussing.
Edit: I should have used quote instead of reply, this post was in response to Serberus_08's reply to my question.
Arlinn Kord // Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon I'm not sure I can give an objective answer to at the moment, just because I really adore her as a card on a personal level. She has the upside of being very flexible which is ideally something that I'd want in this kind of deck, but he drawback is that she's slow. The requirement to flip even makes her fail the Doubling Season check. However, she has a nice set of abilities, giving you access to a combination of a small, large scale pump effect, a targeted pump effect, tokens, and a lightning bolt without even factoring in her ult. The ability to flip her at will (unlike Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed) is also a plus.
It's hard to say more without testing her though.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Agreed. I'm having visions of curving from Arlinn, flipped, into Chandra and pumping an entire team of large tokens in standard. With Xenegos, it seems bonkers. Might have to try it out! I appreciate the thoughts. I really think she has a nice "toolbox" of utility but who knows how that always plays out, right?
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Nahiri filters if you're flooded/need a combo piece.
Gets rid of a pesky enchantment/potentially an artifact/or creature
If you cast her with doublling season you can ult right away--Playing Emrakul/Blightsteel/etc
Arlin is a nice add to token builds
Make a token to flip her, anthem all your guys a few turns or cast her off doublingn season, ult on her 2nd turn out
Emblem acts as a haste enabler and a win con.
1. Any advice on the mana base would be appreciated. It started as a pre-con and as I've gathered lands that fit, they've gone in. There are still some crap stragglers though. I've thought about going from Temples to Battle Lands/tangos. Is the scry 1 THAT good in a 100 card deck? What else needs to go? I'd obviously like to get the other 2 duals and fetches, but that'll come with time.
Any feedback on potential adds/cuts would be greatly appreciated
2. Cards I'm considering cutting:
a. Defense of the Heart. Too easy to blow up. A lot of decks aren't that creature heavy.
b. Warstorm Surge: The idea is to go infinite, but more often than not--I do a few points of damage here and there. With Purphoros and Impact tremors in the deck--is the 3rd worth it at cmc 6?
c. Assemble the Legion--does things if unchecked, but at 5 cmc and taking several turns to get going--definitely slow
d. Bow of Nylea--I like the swiss army knife ability of it, but none of the effects are that powerful.
e. Fervor. There to enable haste--with other haste enablers--it's just awkward at times.
f. Elesh Norn--feels very win more.
g. Armageddon--the idea was always get a ton of dudes with cradle/altars and blow up lands. More often than not I have Amageddon w/o position
h. Plea for Guidance--can tutor up earthcraft/squirrel nest combo, or whatever else I need. At 6, it often has to eat an entire turn.
i. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes--counters are ok, I really liked him for the Look at the top 4 cards--I just don't run enough creatures/planeswalkers anymore to make him consistent.
j. Mind's eye--I just often tap out to advance the board state, and 4 to cast it followed by the activation cost--just always seems underwhelming when I have it.
Hello! Hopefully you don’t mind, but I threw your deck into a deck list. Using [deck][/deck] tags usually makes it a bit easier to read.
Generally, I rate my lands like this: ABUR Duels > Fetch Lands*= Shock Lands > Checks=Tango Lands* > Temples=Filter Lands* > Pretty much everything else
Fetch lands are a matter of price, I’m less likely to use them in U/x/x/ decks, for that reason, especially if I need enemy colored versions. I only run Tango Lands in decks like my list for Marath, where I have a lot of fetch lands, as well as cards that care about land type and enough basics to comfortably use them. Otherwise, I default to check lands. Filters are in the same boat as Fetch Lands, I use them if I have them, otherwise I use temples (or both, in some decks if I have the room). The scry is actually pretty solid and they’re one of the best ETB tapped lands in the format, in my personal opinion.
I wouldn’t worry too much about Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail unless you either have a higher density of creatures, or some way to instantly win in your creature suite without a board presence (think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos). Defense is definitely a potential cut if your group can’t consistently trigger it.
I generally lean towards no if you’re just using it as a combo finisher. It’s quite expensive, and you’re not getting much out of it with your current list if you’re not winning.
I agree with both of these cuts, but I’d look in to other ways to get deathtouch in place of Bow. It’s invaluable to be able to kill most creatures at will for 1 and a +1/+1 counter. Basilisk’s Collar, Nighshade Peddler, and Gorgon’s Head are examples of decent cards you could slot in.
I’d cut Anger first, as you don’t have anything like Survival of the Fittest or Fauna Shaman in your list, which means he really costs 5R and two +1/+1 counters in most situations.
This one depends on your group, but remember that she can just be a board wipe that you can easily tutor in the colors in many situations. That said, if you feel she doesn’t do enough, go ahead and cut her.
I’d agree that this probably isn’t the deck for Armageddon. It interfere’s with your combos, and you’re not enough of an aggro deck to take advantage of the mana denial.
It does also tutor your other combo pieces like Mana Echoes and Cathar's Crusade, but Idyllic Tutor might be a good alternative to look in to, if you can afford it.
I cut Ajani, because while he’s great in theory, he tends to fall flat in practice. Mind's Eye you could potentially replace with something like Harmonize for immediate straight up card draw.
I’d also look into cards like Illusionist's Bracers, for a bit more combo density. Grand Abolisher might also be a nice addition to protect your turn while you try to win. I also like Bloom Tender as a 2 drop mana dork, over the two you have listed, as it's a bit more impactful.
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I tried and tried to deck tag it, and it would only show the land base as a "deck."
I don't know why I haven't been running Illusionist bracers. I've considered Grand Abolisher for a long time. Dromoka definitely gets it done, and the same for 2 is nice. Bloom Tinder seems good as well.
Other cards I'm considering: After earlier discussions here, Garruk Wildspeaker seems like a must. Mina and Dinn Wildspeaker also seem ridiculous with Cradle/Sanctum/Wrath effects. I've considered adding other multiple lands creatures--Azusa/Oracle of Mul Daya/Courser of Kruphix. I figure ramping is always good, and getting lands into player=more quickly drawing into combo pieces. And Maybe an Eternal Witness?
Definitely need a Krosan Grip as well.
I'm hoping to hit up one of the upcoming SCG opens or grand prixs and pick up some HP Revised duals on the cheap.
[deck]Commander (1)
3 Marath, Will of the Wild[/deck]
Would look like this:
3 Marath, Will of the Wild
Adding in Azusa and Courser might be over kill, mainly because we're limited in the number of ways we can draw cards in our colors. I'd probably go for something like Knight of the Reliquary before Course, if only because playing lands off of the top of your library is nice, but Knight can color fix you, or just grab your best lands. It gets better the more dual lands that you include, as well.
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10/10, breaks tokens
"Breaks" is strong - I'd put Mana Echoes up as a more likely candidate for brokeness for tokens in Marath.
That said, if you can get haste, it is a nice back up combo if your other fail.
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
3 Marath, Will of the Wild
CREATURES(18)
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Nightshade Peddler
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Mentor of the Meek
3 Auramancer
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Mirror Entity
3 Eternal Witness
4 Ivy Lane Denizen
4 Trostani, Selsnya's Voice
4 Bloodspore Thrinax
4 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Forgotten Ancient
5 Seedborn Muse
6 Sun Titan
7 Emeria Shepherd
7 Stalking Vengeance
8 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
ENCHANTMENTS(18)
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Impact Tremors
2 Goblin Bombardment
3 Aura Shards
3 Beastmaster Ascension
3 Fires of Yavimaya
3 Martyr's Cause
4 Tooth and Claw
4 Mana Echoes
5 Cathar's Crusade
5 Sphere of Safety
5 Dictate of Heliod
5 Mirari's Wake
5 Doubling Season
5 Berserkers' Onslaught
6 Warstorm Surge
6 Death's Presence
6 True Conviction
1 Skullclamp
1 Gorgon's Head
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Sunforger
3 Chromatic Lantern
5 Gilded Lotus
SORCERIES(8)
2 Farseek
2 Rampant Growth
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Harmonize
4 Triumph of the Hordes
5 Tragic Arrogance
5 Shamanic Revelation
6 Austere Command
INSTANTS(6)
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Eladamri's Call
3 Harrow
3 Oblation
3 Krosan Grip
PLANESWALKERS(3)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
6 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
LANDS
5 Forest
5 Plains
4 Mountain
0 Selesnya Sanctuary
0 Blossoming Sands
0 Naya Panorama
0 Tinder Farm
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Boros Guildgate
0 Tranquil Thicket
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Wind-Scarred Crag
0 Elfhame Palace
0 Battlefield Forge
0 Gruul Guildgate
0 Sandstone Needle
0 Ravaged Highlands
0 Secluded Steppe
0 City of Brass
0 Rugged Highlands
0 Gavony Township
0 Windswept Heath
0 Jungle Shrine
0 Gruul Turf
0 Timberland Ruins
0 Temple of the False God
As you can clearly see I wanted to add cards from all aspects of the primer shell. Could City of Solitude and Gahiji, Honored One fit?
What I like about Marath is the inevitability. One way or another he will control the battlefield. Any suggestions are welcome!
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I think even without haste and any combo this is very powerful in a token deck. Playing this on turn two, it can generate crazy amounts of mana (much more than any Rampant Growth effect, which has the same casting cost). Also, it will act like a ritual if there are a few creatures already around when we cast it. If a deck wants to play Earthcraft (and I think most Marath decks do), it probably also wants this card, not to mention that Cryptolith Ritual will probably cost less than a tenth of what Earthcraft costs, considering budget.
I would definitely suggest Hardened Scales which is just all kinds of powerful with Marath. Also Omnath, Locus of Rage seems better than Stalking Vengeance considering that Marath pumps out large numbers of little elementals. While you don't benefit from most of your other creatures dying, the 1/1 elementals will go out with a much bigger bang, not to mention that Omnath churns out 5/5 beaters as well, especially considering the amount of ramp you run.
I also think your landbase needs some work. I can understand if you are on a budget but about half of your lands enter the battlefield tapped. That will severely hamper the power of your deck. I can understand if you want to work on a budget or with what you have, but I would really consider to invest in some battle lands, check lands, shock lands or whatnot. They will likely hold their value and be worthwhile in many decks. For the time being I would consider to cut some of the worse options (like the Timberland Ruins and Elfhame Palace and other of that sort) and replace them with more basics, because from what it looks like, the fact that so many of your lands ETB tapped will hinder you more than not getting your colors online.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Thank you for pointing out the synergy with Omnath, I didn't notice it . As for Hardened Scales ,it's in my list.
What about City of Solitude or other possible additions?
I generally try to build my paper decks on a budget, meaning that I am not inclined to spend money for ABU duals, Sylvan libraries, expensive fetchlands etc. This deck is new so I built the landbase from leftovers from my collection. I will slowly upgrade the worst lands into painlands etc. For the time being I wanted to check the color balance not the speed
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I wasn't calling it a bad card, but people who are considering it as am addition should be aware that it is much slower without haste. It's also more susceptible to board wipes than Earthcraft if you don't have access to a haste enabler out.
Again, this doesn't make it bad, but those are things that should be kept in mind.
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I typically like to make sure I have a full suite of things to grab with cards like Stoneforge Mystic and Sunforger before running them, so I tend to get a little biased in that regard, but I'd agree that if you aren't using it to its full potential as a toolbox card, that slot might be better served otherwise. ^.^ And thank you!
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I'm definitely a fan of keeping everything in my decks on the lower end of the CMC spectrum - so this card has really hit the sweet spot for me and I hope it continues to.
I don't have a Nihiri to play with, but I can't see her being bad in most lists.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsMy Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
For a primer I understand questions about the inclusion of cards from the last set or 2, I assume I either missed its discussion or it wasn't worth even discussing.
Edit: I should have used quote instead of reply, this post was in response to Serberus_08's reply to my question.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsLike I said, it's totally a viable option, it just comes down to how much removal you want, and what you want that removal to do for you.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf