I'm going to update here, and I'll attempt to update the original post within the next couple of days. Unfortunately, with certain characters being disallowed at the moment, I'll have to fix the primer post before I can add the update there.
Exploration typically allows for a decent early start, but this deck doesn't run enough draw to take advantage of it. At the moment I feel that Chaos Warp, despite still being a powerful card, is no longer the best option, as it can be abused with top of the library tutors when used on commanders. Beastmaster Ascension can be an incredibly powerful pump effect, but it requires either time or a lot of board presence to turn on which makes it much more difficult to effectively use.
I may add Unexpectedly Absent in the future as a way to get rid of indestructible permanents, should they become a problem in my group, but for now, I'm replacing Chaos Warp with Austere Command, as a flexible answer that can deal with multiple problems.
Dragonlord Dromoka has been much stronger than I originally anticipated. Despite her high CMC, having a secondary Grand Abolisher effect for spells that can't be countered has helped me win games that I wouldn't have been able to fight through otherwise.
Secure the Wastes has been extremely powerful effect. It doesn't have an intense color requirement like White Sun's Zenith did, but still generates an effecient amount of tokens for the cost (almost 1 token to 1 mana). Because it's an instant, you can leave counters on Marath and cast this instead at the end of turn, or even give yourself some board presence after a board wipe. They also effectively have haste.
EDIT: I can edit the OP now, and all changes have been made. ^.^
I think Martial Coup would serve you better than Secure the Wastes. I've been running it for a few months and it's been fantastic, especially in conjunction with certain support cards like Glory of Warfare and Warstorm Surge. Ashnod's Altar lets trade in your doomed dudes in for two soldiers apiece, and Earthcraft, or the budget equivalent Citanul Hierophants adds anther one soldier per dude. I've actually had opponents blow their sweepers on my soldier tokens, which feels amazing.
I think Martial Coup would serve you better than Secure the Wastes. I've been running it for a few months and it's been fantastic, especially in conjunction with certain support cards like Glory of Warfare and Warstorm Surge. Ashnod's Altar lets trade in your doomed dudes in for two soldiers apiece, and Earthcraft, or the budget equivalent Citanul Hierophants adds anther one soldier per dude. I've actually had opponents blow their sweepers on my soldier tokens, which feels amazing.
My problem with Martial Coup is that my list isn't set up nearly as well to deal with it as other decks I've seen are.
Because I'm am aggro deck, using it as a board wipe can really hurt me of I'm not in a good position for it. I like Secure the Wastes specifically because it doesn't wipe the board, and it's an instant. It lets me leave counters on Marath so that I have an instant reaction which can be invaluable in my play group (like stopping a Lab Maniac for example).
I do think it's more valuable in decks that aren't so creature based, though. I can see it being really strong in a combo variant of the deck, or even a list that had more support cards that synergize with it.
I know my sig says combo, but I'd estimate that's half my wins at most. It's kind of like the old Melira Pod deck in that respect, the threat of a combo gives it inevitability/forces opponents to play conservatively. I had some similar reservations about Coup, but like I said it's just been great for me as one of the two wrath effects I run. Possibly better than Austere Command for decks with token support, though two has been a good number of wraths to pack in my experience (three if you count my Burning Wish).
I know my sig says combo, but I'd estimate that's half my wins at most. It's kind of like the old Melira Pod deck in that respect, the threat of a combo gives it inevitability/forces opponents to play conservatively. I had some similar reservations about Coup, but like I said it's just been great for me as one of the two wrath effects I run. Possibly better than Austere Command for decks with token support, though two has been a good number of wraths to pack in my experience (three if you count my Burning Wish).
Give it a shot at some point.
I know, I checked to see what you were running before I commented. I do try to keep my comments a bit more... general when talking strategy though, for anyone else who may be reading because there are so many different ways to run him.
I'll try it, but even from what I've seen of it in both my tiny leaders Marath list, and my Elesh Norn list, I don't think it fits, partially due to the amount of removal other decks in my playgroup run.
Really awesome list! I've been using it to replace any card that I knew there must have been something better for. Thanks for keeping it updated for all this time, it's far superior to anything else I've ever seen. I agree with the Beastmaster Ascension remove even if simply because it generates far too much aggro from other players. I'm also going to try out Secure the Wastes because it definitely looks better than anything else printed so far.
Really awesome list! I've been using it to replace any card that I knew there must have been something better for. Thanks for keeping it updated for all this time, it's far superior to anything else I've ever seen. I agree with the Beastmaster Ascension remove even if simply because it generates far too much aggro from other players. I'm also going to try out Secure the Wastes because it definitely looks better than anything else printed so far.
Thanks again!
I'm happy that you found my primer helpful.
Good luck smashing faces with our Moose-Bear Overlord!
Secure the wastes is the best token producer created in a long time. There is no card out there with no draw backs and the mana to tokens created efficiency it has. Tempt with vengeance is the closest anf i still run that in my slightly more aggro version. Combine that with instant speed and an X cost and you have a super flexible card.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Secure the wastes is the best token producer created in a long time. There is no card out there with no draw backs and the mana to tokens created efficiency it has. Tempt with vengeance is the closest anf i still run that in my slightly more aggro version. Combine that with instant speed and an X cost and you have a super flexible card.
I enjoy it. It makes tokens as effecientky at instant speed as Marath, and I can keep counters on him for control purposes. ^.^
Hello folks, I put together an Marath Enchantress deck. Its a lot of fun to play and every aggressive and explosive, playing a little like Animar meets Ghave. The ability to draw is nuts followed by a mixture of strong aggro and combo it gets there quick. Right now I'm just doing testing on cockatrice but Ill be taking it to my local group once I can meet up with them.
Marath is probably better if you don't want Aura voltron, which this list seems to be avoiding. Uril doesn't work well without a heavy focus on Aura support.
Cool. I've been thinking of adding an enchantment subtheme to my build too, although don't think I'll go as deep on it. How do you plan to protect your enchantments? I'm having nightmares about Bane of Progress!
I feel like that shell would function better with Uril at the helm, replacing the token based enchantments with beatstick auras like Runes of the Deus. Either way I would insert Kor Spiritdancer, Heliod's Pilgrim, and Three Dreams. Maybe Skybind for the Heliod synergy.
I did Uril, then I did Bruna and after that I did Sigarda. The biggest issue I had with them was they were to linear, with Marath I can voltron, go wide for swarm or if i cant get through combo.
How do you plan to protect your enchantments? I'm having nightmares about Bane of Progress!
I havn't run into to many mass enchantment hate yet but Airithne pointed out Replenish and Open the Vaults which I will need to find room for...
I forgot to mention this before, but Arrest and Darksteel Mutation should be in your list. They're the closest equivalent you have to tuck and you'll want the relevant tutors anyway. Maybe Faith's Fetters or even some of the curses.
Small heads up for those who are curious, but I've been playing around with some of the slots in my list. Rhys the Redeemed and Voice of Resurgence are most likely coming out of my list. I haven't decided what for yet, but it's moat likely going to be two of the following: Eladamri's Call, Mentor of the Meek, or Harmonize.
I don't use Voice (and seldom get to use Rhys' second ability) but Eladamri's Call and Mentor of the Meek are both pretty fantastic in my version. I'll vouch for their utility.
I've run Mentor before, when I first built the deck. My issue with it was that I had too many static anthems, and it got shut off too easily. It should work well now that the deck has evolved a bit. I just haven't seem either card yet.
As for your deck, if you can consistently use Mentor of the Meek its worth it and Eladamri's Call is always good. Harmonize always felt awkward, id rather run Keen sense for instant speed draw and potential more.
As for your deck, if you can consistently use Mentor of the Meek its worth it and Eladamri's Call is always good. Harmonize always felt awkward, id rather run Keen sense for instant speed draw and potential more.
My problem with Snake Umbra and Keen Sense is that Marath is I've of the easiest way to get the card draw effect multiple times from the enchantment, as he can ping players multiple times in instances of 1 damage. However, because Marath kills himself to draw the cards, it becomes less efficient, especially if used early in the game.
Have recursion or something like Hardened Scales in play helps, but because it's an Aura is often easier to get rid of. Because you're running enchantress, it's a bit more efficient in your build, but in my list it would rely too much on other cards.
Now, if there were an equipment with a similar function, I would run it in a heartbeat if it were efficiently costed. I use Marath as a control engine though, so he dies fairly quickly and often.
I hope that made sense. I'm on mobile, so it's a bit harder to keep my arguments straight.
well in that sense, your already pinging with him right? if you get card draw its that much better. The problem I have with Harmonize is that its sorcery speed, where I play that can be a problem. I get what your say about how its better in my build, but it just adds more fuel when you play it early.
Example, t2 or 3 Marath in to t3 or T4 Keen sense nets you 3 cards if you remove all the counters to burn.
Anyway, I would run Eladamri's Call at vary least. It looks like you have enough card draw in the deck but then I have not played it.
It does specify opponents, unfortunately, so that makes it a lot more strict in use (My primary uses for Marath are pinging problem creatures like Azami, Lady of Scrolls and making dudes, I don't hit players very often).
Still, I appreciate the feedback and I'll update here once I've made my choice. With my track record of drawing new cards, it may take a while but hopefully we'll know soon.
Because you're running enchantress, it's a bit more efficient in your build, but in my list it would rely too much on other cards.
You still have Sun Titan though. ST into Snake Umbra is a strong move. Since you have a decent number of enchantments already you could also consider Replenish. That's very good if you also have something like Archetype of Endurance or some other enchantment creature.
Have you played with Inspiring Call already? I love the card, although neither part of the card is very optimal.
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Hopefully, he gets reprinted with tokens at some point.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Out
Exploration
Beastmaster Ascension
Chaos Warp
In
Secure the Wastes
Austere Command
Dragonlord Dromoka
Exploration typically allows for a decent early start, but this deck doesn't run enough draw to take advantage of it. At the moment I feel that Chaos Warp, despite still being a powerful card, is no longer the best option, as it can be abused with top of the library tutors when used on commanders. Beastmaster Ascension can be an incredibly powerful pump effect, but it requires either time or a lot of board presence to turn on which makes it much more difficult to effectively use.
I may add Unexpectedly Absent in the future as a way to get rid of indestructible permanents, should they become a problem in my group, but for now, I'm replacing Chaos Warp with Austere Command, as a flexible answer that can deal with multiple problems.
Dragonlord Dromoka has been much stronger than I originally anticipated. Despite her high CMC, having a secondary Grand Abolisher effect for spells that can't be countered has helped me win games that I wouldn't have been able to fight through otherwise.
Secure the Wastes has been extremely powerful effect. It doesn't have an intense color requirement like White Sun's Zenith did, but still generates an effecient amount of tokens for the cost (almost 1 token to 1 mana). Because it's an instant, you can leave counters on Marath and cast this instead at the end of turn, or even give yourself some board presence after a board wipe. They also effectively have haste.
EDIT: I can edit the OP now, and all changes have been made. ^.^
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Because I'm am aggro deck, using it as a board wipe can really hurt me of I'm not in a good position for it. I like Secure the Wastes specifically because it doesn't wipe the board, and it's an instant. It lets me leave counters on Marath so that I have an instant reaction which can be invaluable in my play group (like stopping a Lab Maniac for example).
I do think it's more valuable in decks that aren't so creature based, though. I can see it being really strong in a combo variant of the deck, or even a list that had more support cards that synergize with it.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Give it a shot at some point.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
I'll try it, but even from what I've seen of it in both my tiny leaders Marath list, and my Elesh Norn list, I don't think it fits, partially due to the amount of removal other decks in my playgroup run.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Thanks again!
Good luck smashing faces with our Moose-Bear Overlord!
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
1 Marath, Will of the Wild
Creatures (22)
1 Figure of Destiny
2 Argothian Enchantress
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Eternal Witness
3 Verduran Enchantress
3 Mesa Enchantress
3 Archetype of Aggression
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Iroas, God of Victory
5 Sigarda, Host of Herons
5 Karmic Guide
6 Sun Titan
6 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
6 Aurelia, the Warleader
7 Avenger of Zendika
Enchantments (27)
1 Keen Sense
1 Hardened Scales
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Flickering Ward
1 Rancor
1 Exploration
2 Impact Tremors
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sylvan Library
2 Sterling Grove
2 Trace of Abundance
2 Goblin Bombardment
3 Aura Shards
3 Fires of Yavimaya
3 Enchantress's Presence
3 Song of the Dryads
3 Shared Animosity
3 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Mana Echoes
4 Abundance
4 Parallel Lives
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Dictate of the Twin Gods
5 Dictate of Karametra
5 Doubling Season
6 Warstorm Surge
6 Mana Reflection
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Eladamri's Call
3 Krosan Grip
3 Beast Within
Sorcery (6)
2 Farseek
2 Nature's Lore
3 Idyllic Tutor
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Skyshroud Claim
7 Tooth and Nail
Artifacts (3)
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Bow of Nylea
Lands (37)
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Opal Palace
1 Command Tower
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
12 Forest
8 Plains
7 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Sunpetal Grove
Hello folks, I put together an Marath Enchantress deck. Its a lot of fun to play and every aggressive and explosive, playing a little like Animar meets Ghave. The ability to draw is nuts followed by a mixture of strong aggro and combo it gets there quick. Right now I'm just doing testing on cockatrice but Ill be taking it to my local group once I can meet up with them.
Horde of Notions
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I did Uril, then I did Bruna and after that I did Sigarda. The biggest issue I had with them was they were to linear, with Marath I can voltron, go wide for swarm or if i cant get through combo.
I havn't run into to many mass enchantment hate yet but Airithne pointed out Replenish and Open the Vaults which I will need to find room for...
Horde of Notions
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Small heads up for those who are curious, but I've been playing around with some of the slots in my list. Rhys the Redeemed and Voice of Resurgence are most likely coming out of my list. I haven't decided what for yet, but it's moat likely going to be two of the following: Eladamri's Call, Mentor of the Meek, or Harmonize.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
As for your deck, if you can consistently use Mentor of the Meek its worth it and Eladamri's Call is always good. Harmonize always felt awkward, id rather run Keen sense for instant speed draw and potential more.
Horde of Notions
Have recursion or something like Hardened Scales in play helps, but because it's an Aura is often easier to get rid of. Because you're running enchantress, it's a bit more efficient in your build, but in my list it would rely too much on other cards.
Now, if there were an equipment with a similar function, I would run it in a heartbeat if it were efficiently costed. I use Marath as a control engine though, so he dies fairly quickly and often.
I hope that made sense. I'm on mobile, so it's a bit harder to keep my arguments straight.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Example, t2 or 3 Marath in to t3 or T4 Keen sense nets you 3 cards if you remove all the counters to burn.
Anyway, I would run Eladamri's Call at vary least. It looks like you have enough card draw in the deck but then I have not played it.
Horde of Notions
Still, I appreciate the feedback and I'll update here once I've made my choice. With my track record of drawing new cards, it may take a while but hopefully we'll know soon.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
You still have Sun Titan though. ST into Snake Umbra is a strong move. Since you have a decent number of enchantments already you could also consider Replenish. That's very good if you also have something like Archetype of Endurance or some other enchantment creature.
Have you played with Inspiring Call already? I love the card, although neither part of the card is very optimal.