Cut the tuck spells and went with cheaper counterspells in Arcane Denial and Pact. Usually unable to pass the turn with more than 2 mana open unless Prophet is out. Swapped out Loxodon Gatekeeper with Hero of Bladehold. Battle cry is fairly nifty and the tokens are great with Stasis/Orbs in play
ey man, just tried out your Derevi list. and i gotta say this one really surprised me. i've been so used to seeing the 1v1 Derevi lists.. that when i looked at your list initially i was like "what does this thing do". well gave it a run tonight and man i was shocked at how well it ran. it disguises itself pretty well by looking like an aggro deck but then all a sudden combo happens. good job man. looking forward to how your deck develops moving forward.
Added in Weathered Wayfarer. Felt like the list needed a few more one drops. Sadly there aren't too many ones worthy of consideration. The Wayfarer can help color fix and get Cradle out so it's worth a shot. Cut Muddle the Mixture to make room for it. Muddle is good but early game always felt awkward
Weathered Wayfarer's purpose is color-fixing, acceleration, and early game board presence. Being able to get Cradle is significant. In the test draws I saw, I was pretty happy to see him. The ideal scenario is Wayfarer turn 1. Bloom Tender turn 2. Derevi turn 3. There is a lack of 1 drops in this list. Two more would be great
Weathered Wayfarer's purpose is color-fixing, acceleration, and early game board presence. Being able to get Cradle is significant. In the test draws I saw, I was pretty happy to see him. The ideal scenario is Wayfarer turn 1. Bloom Tender turn 2. Derevi turn 3. There is a lack of 1 drops in this list. Two more would be great
I had the same thoughts with Weathered Wayfarer, he doubles up as a tutor for Seaside Haven if i need to draw more, High Market is I just need a sac outlet, Alchemist Refuge for flashing stuff, and of course Gaea's Cradle. As for one drop, Serra Ascendant maybe? It doesn't really contribute mana, but serves as a clock. If I had more forests in my deck I would have run Rofellos, maybe you could try that.
I did give a good long look at Rofellos. But even counting fetches, my land composition is roughly 50% forests. Turn 4 would only put us at 2 forests. Not sure that is going to help so much. Worst case scenario is he taps for 0 mana...
Inspiration looks like a perfect match for Derevi. The ability is very powerful but needs to be built around. Being able to Untap the creature before the next untap phase is necessary so that there won't be too long of a delay between the permanent(land or creature most likely) coming in and us being able to use it. Basically the lower the cc, the more valuable the inspiration creature.
Played 5 games tonight vs Zur and Derevi/Ghave. The short version of the games summary is this list is faster than Azusa, really consistent, and will shut down the table if not disrupted early.
Some other observations I had: I wish Wall of Blossoms could swing. Hero of Bladehold without haste usually sat in my hand or was pitched to Survival. Never saw Lightning Greaves. Grand Arbiter Augustin may be too slow. List didn't seem to need him. Body Double is definately needed in case Deadeye gets killed. We need more ways to kill Humility. Only game I lost Humility shut us down. And despite my Elesh Norn being in play, the Squirrel Horde ran over us. Gaddock Teeg did a lot of good work. Maybe Bribery isn't needed. Overall I was very satisfied. Tempo was great and explosiveness high. Generated many disgusting board states
Gotta love skullclamp.. seriously.. this card wrecks and I love it.
Last night was actually the first time i was able to abuse it since I bought it and my god does it draw some cards... lol
I love Hero of Bladehold in my deck as well. It sucks when we just have to sit there and hope we can swing with it but its a threat they have to deal with immediately or... buck up and take it lol
actually now that you mention it I haven't seen either pair of shoes in my deck for awhile now and it sucks
Also, are people using Wargate in their list? I have had the pleasure of using wargate many times and this card has always been great for me
Gotta love skullclamp.. seriously.. this card wrecks and I love it.
Last night was actually the first time i was able to abuse it since I bought it and my god does it draw some cards... lol
I love Hero of Bladehold in my deck as well. It sucks when we just have to sit there and hope we can swing with it but its a threat they have to deal with immediately or... buck up and take it lol
actually now that you mention it I haven't seen either pair of shoes in my deck for awhile now and it sucks
Also, are people using Wargate in their list? I have had the pleasure of using wargate many times and this card has always been great for me
Skullclamp is a fantastic card. However for this build I'm trying to keep our guys on the table alive and kicking to generate untaps or taps. It's best in a build with lots of sac outlets.
The Hero is great in certain situations. Those being early game (turn 3 or earlier) with Winter Orb or friends out. My friend commented it was a win-more card and I tend to agree. It sat in my hand not doing much the few times I drew her. Often I had better options. And the largest problem is her size, against opponents with board advantage not being able to attack completely destroys the purpose of her inclusion in the list.
Wargate is actually pretty good. But I'm trying to make my list more Gaddock Teeg compliant. Well, may make sense to cut Bribery for Wargate
Skullclamp is a fantastic card. However for this build I'm trying to keep our guys on the table alive and kicking to generate untaps or taps. It's best in a build with lots of sac outlets.
The Hero is great in certain situations. Those being early game (turn 3 or earlier) with Winter Orb or friends out. My friend commented it was a win-more card and I tend to agree. It sat in my hand not doing much the few times I drew her. Often I had better options. And the largest problem is her size, against opponents with board advantage not being able to attack completely destroys the purpose of her inclusion in the list.
Wargate is actually pretty good. But I'm trying to make my list more Gaddock Teeg compliant. Well, may make sense to cut Bribery for Wargate
I understand about skullclamp, the only reason i was nuking pretty much every mana dork i had throughout the game was due to a Marath opponent that had a ton of mana and i wasn't drawing an answer for him so i figured i might as well until i get an answer.
My list has some similarities with the leading list but my deck has started from a lot more casual deck style and im slowly working my way up to competitiveness. Gaddock Teeg is the card im getting within a week. After playtesting a lot with my deck, i realized that i dont have the threat density that comes from other fatty/bomb decks like Jeleva and Prosh, and sometimes i dont see very many counters, I need to be able to slow them down on the bigger spells until i can start dropping reliable pressure.
I understand what you mean about Hero, honestly I have had a thing for this card since it first came out and i abused her in a white/green beatdown deck back in standard days, so i guess my opinion towards her is a little biased lol
Bribery is a nasty card... but i could understand the switch if you were to replace it with wargate. Being able to fetch Winter orb, or even a utility creature has been lifesaving in some scenarios for me.
I was going to suggest switch Wall of Blossoms for Mulldrifter earlier, but I got distracted and walked away from the computer. Looks like you did that anyway LOL!
Derevi + Homarid Spawning Bed + Earthcraft + Mirari's Wake not only nets infi critters, but also infi *untapped* critters, infi taps or your opponents' stuff, and happens entirely at instant speed. So I think it's a near-complete prison that's only vulnerable to instant-speed enchantment removal. And that still leaves infi critters and a tapped board against an untapped board on your side.
I have a multiplayer Derevi deck that is faster than anything I played (and I played Rofellos). And then again, I never run out of gas.
I took me a long to get there but now I'm using every one drop you might think of and more. For starters: all mana accelerants (BoP, Elves, Hierarch, Pilgrim, Green Sun's Zenith/Dryad Arbor, etc.). But the list goes on: Sakura-Tribe Scout (and his weaker brother Skyshroud Ranger) accompanied by the usually slow Karoo's. They are not slow in here and provide more mana with Derevi. Weathered Wayfarer also likes the Karoos. Serra Ascendant to go with Prime Speaker Zegana. Enclave Cryptologist, while slow, can grow up to draw cards and be untapped. Faerie Imposter to return anything from Coiling Oracle to Primordial (or PSZ). I even added Sage of Epityr to go with Azami. And then off course, one of the MVP's of the deck: Ranger of Eos. I added a slow Mikaeus, the Lunarch (but he's on the edge of cutting) so he can do anything: Ranger of Eos into Sakura-Tribe Scout and Faerie Imposter into Ranger of Eos into, Serra Ascendant and Sage Epityr, into PSZ or Azami on top has happened on Turn 3.
With that many one drops Stoneforge Mystic/Trinket Mage/Skullclamp are goood. Mentor of the Meek becomes good also and Edric becomes even better.
I can go for the win with the Prophet/Azami combo on T4 80% of the time. T5 feels slow. I added Vedalken Aethermage to find the other one which is a great tutor when you're untapping a Mana Crypt or Sol Ring.
That's a four-card combo. It's also weak to instant speed creature removal and tuck-counterspells. Those are all good cards, but that combo is not a solid win condition.
None of those things are true. You're using Derevi's triggered ability and the sacrifice is part of the cost hence it can't be disrupted by critter removal.
I thought I'd throw this out there: I run a somewhat similar Derevi list where I'm not really trying to combo but have a lot more of the mana denial going on. Not exactly the same but quite a few of the same cards
Anyway one card that's been working out really well for me is Helm of Possession. Try it out
In Holland our Commander tournaments have one additional ruling: no infi's. It's a super fun format.
That said I usually Prophet untap into Azami, draw three/four cards and usually tutor or draw into a counter: like Glen Elendra or Venser of Force of Will. When the turn comes back to me I will have played three extra turns, outdrawing all opponent's together and then play a Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, kill the strongest player, cripple the others and play a Hokori Dust Drinker or something. Derevi feels like having two turns in one and with Prophet it's like having even more.
In infi modus it's much easier I suspect, but I don't know.
Sounds like you have built your Derevi along the lines of an Edric list. The concept is solid so long as you can get Edric or some card advantage engine online. Being able to go infinite ends games really quickly if there is no disruption. What I really like about this build is it's filled with good stuff and is very flexible in dealing with threats. Once Derevi hits play its threat level is really high.
Derevi + Homarid Spawning Bed + Earthcraft + Mirari's Wake not only nets infi critters, but also infi *untapped* critters, infi taps or your opponents' stuff, and happens entirely at instant speed. So I think it's a near-complete prison that's only vulnerable to instant-speed enchantment removal. And that still leaves infi critters and a tapped board against an untapped board on your side.
Non-creature spells have a higher standard to meet before consideration for Derevi lists imo. Mirari's Wake is a bad fit here. There's not enough high cc spells worth casting, and a turn 2 Bloom Tender into turn 3 Derevi can get everything except Elesh Norn, SP, and Azami out. Creatures should be attacking not untapping our basic lands so don't really like Earthcraft much. The Spawning Bed would be usuable if it didn't have an activation cost. But Heliod as a token producer is a superior choice. Not only is it a creature so we can tutor/pod into it, but we can feed our infinite WG mana into it from Deadeye + Bloom Tender to creature infinite tokens. And in response to wipes which leave Heliod on the table we can float infinite mana, and recreate our token army. Lastly Heliod is a perfect fit with Stasis and Static Orb.
Ephara, God of the Polis is a nice card advantage engine which I think we can take Mulldrifter out for.
Having played my own Derevi Stax a couple of times now, I have come across some questions. Since you have quite some experience and valuable insights and your deck seems rather similar to mine, though with a few less creatures, I figured I'd just ask:
Why do you play Oblivion Stone? I understand it works even under Gaddock Teeg and is a nuclear catch-all answer. It's still rather expensive to use and it seems there's plenty of situations, where you won't want to get rid of all permanents. Has this been a good choice? I opted to have Supreme Verdict and Austere Command, despite the Teeg.
What's your opinion on Retribution of the Meek? I've ran into quite a number of situations where it would have been a blowout. Being able to answer a full board without losing much yourself sounds great! And I seem to have problems controlling a full table with just the Stax elements and (small) creatures. So much so, that I'm thinking about adding Windborn Muse.
Do you find, you have enough creatures in your list? And how well has the DEN-combo worked out for you? What do you usually do with the infinite mana?
I have included Saffi Eriksdotter and Fiend Hunter to combo with Sun Titan, using Blasting Station as a sacrifice outlet. Also Adarkar Valkyrie with Derevi and Blasting Station wins the game quite well. All these pieces are quite reasonable on their own. Though it seems rather hard to assemble with my card draw not staying on the board for long usually.
Any thoughts on this?
How's a typical game going for you? Two nights ago I had to grind out a win with just Derevi and Elesh Norn under a Stasis Lock against Talrand, Jarad and Marath, which was grueling.
Ardeyn
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My Derevi deck doesn't show a lot of resemblance with a Edric deck except for some mana accelerants. I doesn't have 14 counterspells and 4 time walk effects, it doesn't have cheap evasive creatures just because they are cheap and evasive. It doesn't die to Pyroclasm.
Maybe it looks a little bit like an Azami deck only then with Prophet, Derevi and Prime Speaker Zegana, and a lot faster.
I really think Derevi is about mana utilization. With Karoos, Derevi, mana accelerants, Cradle, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Utopia Sprawl, Wild Growth, Bloom Tender, you will be generating twice at much mana as any other deck. My job is to use all of the mana every turn. Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Mentor of the Meek, Birthing Pod, Fact or Fiction, Survival of the Fittest and other tutors help to accomplish this.
The best comparison of playing Derevi is problaby not even Azami. It feels more like playing Pokemon.
The impression I got was a mass of small creatures with extra turn effects, but things would probably be much easier if you just posted your list rather than me making assumptions about it... Haven't explored the Karoos heavily. Coming into play tapped is a delay I'm loathe to accept. After bouncing a land we still have the exact same mana as compared to if we played normal lands. We would only net a bonus in combat for our instant speed spells or activated abilities if we had multiple attackers doing damage to opponents. Also in the precombat main phase our mana is handicapped with the karoo land coming in tapped. Your card filtering and draw looks solid. You are indeed correct that Derevi loves to maximize early game mana utilization.
Having played my own Derevi Stax a couple of times now, I have come across some questions. Since you have quite some experience and valuable insights and your deck seems rather similar to mine, though with a few less creatures, I figured I'd just ask:
Why do you play Oblivion Stone? I understand it works even under Gaddock Teeg and is a nuclear catch-all answer. It's still rather expensive to use and it seems there's plenty of situations, where you won't want to get rid of all permanents. Has this been a good choice? I opted to have Supreme Verdict and Austere Command, despite the Teeg.
What's your opinion on Retribution of the Meek? I've ran into quite a number of situations where it would have been a blowout. Being able to answer a full board without losing much yourself sounds great! And I seem to have problems controlling a full table with just the Stax elements and (small) creatures. So much so, that I'm thinking about adding Windborn Muse.
Do you find, you have enough creatures in your list? And how well has the DEN-combo worked out for you? What do you usually do with the infinite mana?
I have included Saffi Eriksdotter and Fiend Hunter to combo with Sun Titan, using Blasting Station as a sacrifice outlet. Also Adarkar Valkyrie with Derevi and Blasting Station wins the game quite well. All these pieces are quite reasonable on their own. Though it seems rather hard to assemble with my card draw not staying on the board for long usually.
Any thoughts on this?
How's a typical game going for you? Two nights ago I had to grind out a win with just Derevi and Elesh Norn under a Stasis Lock against Talrand, Jarad and Marath, which was grueling.
Ardeyn
I don't have that much actual experience playing Derevi. But I have lots playing Bant. Oblivion Stone can be used to protect key pieces on our board before wiping the table. One-sided wipes are usually quite devasating to opponents. Being able to put 3-4 counters on our permanents in one turn is a neat trick. And as you noticed, it is Gaddock Teeg compliant - one of the few board wipes which is. I've had a hard time deciding whether Academy Ruins or High Market is the best utility land to use with Derevi. May just decide I need both. The list is focused on imposing its will on the table really fast and board wipes as much as they hurt the board leader, don't really move us towards our goals. Retribution of the Meek is decent but situational, I've been pretty happy with Oblivion Stone and Cyclonic Rift. I don't think Windborn Muse is worth a slot.
The creature count could probably be slightly higher but being able to interact with the stack is important and there are few enough creatures which can do that. Maybe I could squeeze in 3 more creatures. I think the sweet spot for this build would be around 37 creatures. Deadeye combo is the fastest way to end games. It's been a champ. Turn 3 is the earliest I've gotten it off. Gilded Lotus with Derevi and Deadeye out can tap down the table. With Fierce Empath out we can get to Sylvan Primordial and eliminate all nonland permanents. With Birthing Pod we can get to Venser and bounce everything. Going infinite with Bloom Tender is less clean. Basically we get to Heliod and make infinite tokens - a one turn delay.
Your list would probably want more of a sacrifice theme with Adarkar Valkyrie and Blasting Station. Deadeye doesn't like creatures in the graveyard. Deadeye is probably faster since it doesn't have summoning sickness and only needs one other piece with Derevi in play to go infinite and once we go infinite getting to the third piece, an outlet is usually very quick with all our creature tutors. Blasting Station is probably hard to dig up without a ton of tutors.
Well like I stated on the first page, only have 20 games under my belt. Winrate is probably about 40%. 2/3 of the wins are concessions after comboing out with Deadeye. The other third, combat damage with orbs/hokori/stasis out. The list takes a LOT of hate.
I can understand that if someone suggested Karoo's, you're first impressing would be like: NOoooo, not someone like that, someone that doesn't understand what competitive means.
The decks I played were Rofellos, Azami, Momir, Sharuum, Edric, Azami, Azusa, the Mimeoplasm and Proshh. People around me would probably describe me as being too competitive for Commander.
I have never ever played Karoos before. I have never ever played alot of 1 casting cost creatures before. My first rule for a creature was that it had an ETB ability at least (or someting like that, Oracle of Mul Day, red.), but I still think Karoo's play their part to the solution of Derevi's powers.
Commander 2013 has changed things. At least 4 commanders from that set are Tier 1 in Duel Commander as well as Multiplayer. The world has changed.
And I think Derevi is the mistake in this set. I think Derevi was tuned down and tuned down and tuned down to what it is now, and Wizards thought this was not broken. But they were wrong. The day people understand Derevi for what it is, is the day it's get banned as a Commander.
Please don't approach Derevi as a Bant Commander with the Karmic Guide and the Consecrated Sphinx and a lot of ETB and some control. Approach Derevi for what it is: the most broken commander in Magic ever. (>> Edric, Azami, Rofellos, Azusa).
I think the only deck that has a 50% change against it in 1vs1 or multiplayer is Marath.
That's a very fast opening. It's more aggressive developing its early board than any other Derevi list I've come across. Very nice list. Beautiful curve. I don't see a finisher but once you hit Azami + Prophet or Edric you're good unless someone manages to wipe the board. Not sure I want to commit that many resources to a fast start.
So I cut Trinket Mage and SDT, replacing them with Ephara, God of the Polis and Avacyn's Pilgrim. Trinket Mage didn't get us to our win conditions so I finally decided it was time to cut him. Likewise SDT as a card filter is not bad but true card advantage is more desirable. Out it goes. The card I'm most excited about is Ephara. An indestructible card advantage engine waiting for us to abuse. It feeds itself and makes other cards like Phyrexian Arena look like weak sauce. Potential cards I think merit a look are: Dryad Arbor (fetches which can grab a forest can bring it in on opponent's turn), Emeria Angel (fetches), Verdant Force, Snapcaster Mage, Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Glen Elendra Archmage, and I'm sure there are a ton of other ways to generate value.
Thought a lot about the Karoos and I believe without a plethora of little mana dorks to make up the loss in tempo from a karoo coming in tapped, or having one of those guys which tap to put a land into play from our hand, they're not a good fit. The emphasis here is geared towards hitting our combo pieces faster and not building our board for an aggro style finish.
I am interested to hear your results on Voidmage Prodigy. It seems like its been controversial at best in most Derevi decks.
I've had successful results with the Voidmage Prodigy. It's a good deterant for opponants and is never a dead draw because the general and 9 other creatures in the deck are wizards so "ammuniton" isn't an immediate problem when the Prodigy hits the field. Plus, it adds another layer of complexity and ability to the other wizard creatures in play... if blue is about having options, i find that the Voidmage Prodigy expands the options of the creatures in my deck.
I've had successful results with the Voidmage Prodigy. It's a good deterant for opponants and is never a dead draw because the general and 9 other creatures in the deck are wizards so "ammuniton" isn't an immediate problem when the Prodigy hits the field. Plus, it adds another layer of complexity and ability to the other wizard creatures in play... if blue is about having options, i find that the Voidmage Prodigy expands the options of the creatures in my deck.
Well among the few problems I had with the card are: sometimes finding UU early game is tough, it doesn't usually let us counter a spell the turn we play it, and opponents won't cast the card we must counter while we have it in play. I found the Prodigy to be a late-game defensive piece which also doubles as a sac outlet. Gaddock Teeg essentially replaced Voidmage Prodigy's purpose but can be active from second turn onwards and is more easily tutored for, making it better fit here in my book
I finally got serious about a Derevi build (see my sig for link) and I have a few observations:
1. Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Skullclamp/Birthing Pod vs punking artifact ramp mana bases and equipment voltron with Null Rod and Stony Silence. While Birthing Pod is amazingly solid for us, the other cards just aren't that important. It certainly seems clear that if you can expect to see Sharuum, you should go the Rod/Silence route.
2. Land Equilibrium. We can function on 2-3 lands. Most decks can't.
3. What is the best untap outlet? Probably Time Vault, but it's not legal. Ideally, we want to turn untaps into cards drawn or permanents destroyed? Lux Cannon, Heimdar, Surgespanner, Azami, and Birthing Pod seem like the standout best outlets.
I finally got serious about a Derevi build (see my sig for link) and I have a few observations:
1. Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Skullclamp/Birthing Pod vs punking artifact ramp mana bases and equipment voltron with Null Rod and Stony Silence. While Birthing Pod is amazingly solid for us, the other cards just aren't that important. It certainly seems clear that if you can expect to see Sharuum, you should go the Rod/Silence route.
2. Land Equilibrium. We can function on 2-3 lands. Most decks can't.
3. What is the best untap outlet? Probably Time Vault, but it's not legal. Ideally, we want to turn untaps into cards drawn or permanents destroyed? Lux Cannon, Heimdar, Surgespanner, Azami, and Birthing Pod seem like the standout best outlets.
Glad to see another Derevi list! Your focus on disruption is interesting. I'll add that your curve should be really low if you want to operate off 3 lands while carrying all that MLD. As for your observations
1. The early game acceleration from Mana Crypt/Sol Ring was too potent to set aside. Being able to push out bombs turn 3 is one of Derevi's goals. Birthing Pod is a champ. Skullclamp removes creatures from the battlefield and that hurts us. Derevi is creature-centric. Haven't played Sharuum with Derevi yet, might recommend Rest in Peace with some more artifact disruption.
2. 3 Lands gets us going. More lets us empty our hand faster.
3. Best untap outlet has been Bloom Tender for me. Cradle, Gilded Lotus, Birthing Pod, and Sisay have also been good. Deadeye has been really, really good
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
ey man, just tried out your Derevi list. and i gotta say this one really surprised me. i've been so used to seeing the 1v1 Derevi lists.. that when i looked at your list initially i was like "what does this thing do". well gave it a run tonight and man i was shocked at how well it ran. it disguises itself pretty well by looking like an aggro deck but then all a sudden combo happens. good job man. looking forward to how your deck develops moving forward.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I had the same thoughts with Weathered Wayfarer, he doubles up as a tutor for Seaside Haven if i need to draw more, High Market is I just need a sac outlet, Alchemist Refuge for flashing stuff, and of course Gaea's Cradle. As for one drop, Serra Ascendant maybe? It doesn't really contribute mana, but serves as a clock. If I had more forests in my deck I would have run Rofellos, maybe you could try that.
Legacy:
UWR Miracles
BUG Shardless Sultai
EDH:
GWUDerevi, Master of SynergyUWG
RWBAlesha, Legacies and RelicsBWR
0R0Daretti, More than Meets the Eye0R0
WGSelvala, Elf StaxGW
RUGRiku of Infinite InvocationsGUR
Inspiration looks like a perfect match for Derevi. The ability is very powerful but needs to be built around. Being able to Untap the creature before the next untap phase is necessary so that there won't be too long of a delay between the permanent(land or creature most likely) coming in and us being able to use it. Basically the lower the cc, the more valuable the inspiration creature.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Some other observations I had: I wish Wall of Blossoms could swing. Hero of Bladehold without haste usually sat in my hand or was pitched to Survival. Never saw Lightning Greaves. Grand Arbiter Augustin may be too slow. List didn't seem to need him. Body Double is definately needed in case Deadeye gets killed. We need more ways to kill Humility. Only game I lost Humility shut us down. And despite my Elesh Norn being in play, the Squirrel Horde ran over us. Gaddock Teeg did a lot of good work. Maybe Bribery isn't needed. Overall I was very satisfied. Tempo was great and explosiveness high. Generated many disgusting board states
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Last night was actually the first time i was able to abuse it since I bought it and my god does it draw some cards... lol
I love Hero of Bladehold in my deck as well. It sucks when we just have to sit there and hope we can swing with it but its a threat they have to deal with immediately or... buck up and take it lol
actually now that you mention it I haven't seen either pair of shoes in my deck for awhile now and it sucks
Also, are people using Wargate in their list? I have had the pleasure of using wargate many times and this card has always been great for me
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Skullclamp is a fantastic card. However for this build I'm trying to keep our guys on the table alive and kicking to generate untaps or taps. It's best in a build with lots of sac outlets.
The Hero is great in certain situations. Those being early game (turn 3 or earlier) with Winter Orb or friends out. My friend commented it was a win-more card and I tend to agree. It sat in my hand not doing much the few times I drew her. Often I had better options. And the largest problem is her size, against opponents with board advantage not being able to attack completely destroys the purpose of her inclusion in the list.
Wargate is actually pretty good. But I'm trying to make my list more Gaddock Teeg compliant. Well, may make sense to cut Bribery for Wargate
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I understand about skullclamp, the only reason i was nuking pretty much every mana dork i had throughout the game was due to a Marath opponent that had a ton of mana and i wasn't drawing an answer for him so i figured i might as well until i get an answer.
My list has some similarities with the leading list but my deck has started from a lot more casual deck style and im slowly working my way up to competitiveness. Gaddock Teeg is the card im getting within a week. After playtesting a lot with my deck, i realized that i dont have the threat density that comes from other fatty/bomb decks like Jeleva and Prosh, and sometimes i dont see very many counters, I need to be able to slow them down on the bigger spells until i can start dropping reliable pressure.
I understand what you mean about Hero, honestly I have had a thing for this card since it first came out and i abused her in a white/green beatdown deck back in standard days, so i guess my opinion towards her is a little biased lol
Bribery is a nasty card... but i could understand the switch if you were to replace it with wargate. Being able to fetch Winter orb, or even a utility creature has been lifesaving in some scenarios for me.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Derevi + Homarid Spawning Bed + Earthcraft + Mirari's Wake not only nets infi critters, but also infi *untapped* critters, infi taps or your opponents' stuff, and happens entirely at instant speed. So I think it's a near-complete prison that's only vulnerable to instant-speed enchantment removal. And that still leaves infi critters and a tapped board against an untapped board on your side.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
What's your wincon?
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
None of those things are true. You're using Derevi's triggered ability and the sacrifice is part of the cost hence it can't be disrupted by critter removal.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Anyway one card that's been working out really well for me is Helm of Possession. Try it out
Sounds like you have built your Derevi along the lines of an Edric list. The concept is solid so long as you can get Edric or some card advantage engine online. Being able to go infinite ends games really quickly if there is no disruption. What I really like about this build is it's filled with good stuff and is very flexible in dealing with threats. Once Derevi hits play its threat level is really high.
Non-creature spells have a higher standard to meet before consideration for Derevi lists imo. Mirari's Wake is a bad fit here. There's not enough high cc spells worth casting, and a turn 2 Bloom Tender into turn 3 Derevi can get everything except Elesh Norn, SP, and Azami out. Creatures should be attacking not untapping our basic lands so don't really like Earthcraft much. The Spawning Bed would be usuable if it didn't have an activation cost. But Heliod as a token producer is a superior choice. Not only is it a creature so we can tutor/pod into it, but we can feed our infinite WG mana into it from Deadeye + Bloom Tender to creature infinite tokens. And in response to wipes which leave Heliod on the table we can float infinite mana, and recreate our token army. Lastly Heliod is a perfect fit with Stasis and Static Orb.
Ephara, God of the Polis is a nice card advantage engine which I think we can take Mulldrifter out for.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Why do you play Oblivion Stone? I understand it works even under Gaddock Teeg and is a nuclear catch-all answer. It's still rather expensive to use and it seems there's plenty of situations, where you won't want to get rid of all permanents. Has this been a good choice? I opted to have Supreme Verdict and Austere Command, despite the Teeg.
What's your opinion on Retribution of the Meek? I've ran into quite a number of situations where it would have been a blowout. Being able to answer a full board without losing much yourself sounds great! And I seem to have problems controlling a full table with just the Stax elements and (small) creatures. So much so, that I'm thinking about adding Windborn Muse.
Do you find, you have enough creatures in your list? And how well has the DEN-combo worked out for you? What do you usually do with the infinite mana?
I have included Saffi Eriksdotter and Fiend Hunter to combo with Sun Titan, using Blasting Station as a sacrifice outlet. Also Adarkar Valkyrie with Derevi and Blasting Station wins the game quite well. All these pieces are quite reasonable on their own. Though it seems rather hard to assemble with my card draw not staying on the board for long usually.
Any thoughts on this?
How's a typical game going for you? Two nights ago I had to grind out a win with just Derevi and Elesh Norn under a Stasis Lock against Talrand, Jarad and Marath, which was grueling.
Ardeyn
The impression I got was a mass of small creatures with extra turn effects, but things would probably be much easier if you just posted your list rather than me making assumptions about it... Haven't explored the Karoos heavily. Coming into play tapped is a delay I'm loathe to accept. After bouncing a land we still have the exact same mana as compared to if we played normal lands. We would only net a bonus in combat for our instant speed spells or activated abilities if we had multiple attackers doing damage to opponents. Also in the precombat main phase our mana is handicapped with the karoo land coming in tapped. Your card filtering and draw looks solid. You are indeed correct that Derevi loves to maximize early game mana utilization.
I don't have that much actual experience playing Derevi. But I have lots playing Bant. Oblivion Stone can be used to protect key pieces on our board before wiping the table. One-sided wipes are usually quite devasating to opponents. Being able to put 3-4 counters on our permanents in one turn is a neat trick. And as you noticed, it is Gaddock Teeg compliant - one of the few board wipes which is. I've had a hard time deciding whether Academy Ruins or High Market is the best utility land to use with Derevi. May just decide I need both. The list is focused on imposing its will on the table really fast and board wipes as much as they hurt the board leader, don't really move us towards our goals. Retribution of the Meek is decent but situational, I've been pretty happy with Oblivion Stone and Cyclonic Rift. I don't think Windborn Muse is worth a slot.
The creature count could probably be slightly higher but being able to interact with the stack is important and there are few enough creatures which can do that. Maybe I could squeeze in 3 more creatures. I think the sweet spot for this build would be around 37 creatures. Deadeye combo is the fastest way to end games. It's been a champ. Turn 3 is the earliest I've gotten it off. Gilded Lotus with Derevi and Deadeye out can tap down the table. With Fierce Empath out we can get to Sylvan Primordial and eliminate all nonland permanents. With Birthing Pod we can get to Venser and bounce everything. Going infinite with Bloom Tender is less clean. Basically we get to Heliod and make infinite tokens - a one turn delay.
Your list would probably want more of a sacrifice theme with Adarkar Valkyrie and Blasting Station. Deadeye doesn't like creatures in the graveyard. Deadeye is probably faster since it doesn't have summoning sickness and only needs one other piece with Derevi in play to go infinite and once we go infinite getting to the third piece, an outlet is usually very quick with all our creature tutors. Blasting Station is probably hard to dig up without a ton of tutors.
Well like I stated on the first page, only have 20 games under my belt. Winrate is probably about 40%. 2/3 of the wins are concessions after comboing out with Deadeye. The other third, combat damage with orbs/hokori/stasis out. The list takes a LOT of hate.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
That's a very fast opening. It's more aggressive developing its early board than any other Derevi list I've come across. Very nice list. Beautiful curve. I don't see a finisher but once you hit Azami + Prophet or Edric you're good unless someone manages to wipe the board. Not sure I want to commit that many resources to a fast start.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Thought a lot about the Karoos and I believe without a plethora of little mana dorks to make up the loss in tempo from a karoo coming in tapped, or having one of those guys which tap to put a land into play from our hand, they're not a good fit. The emphasis here is geared towards hitting our combo pieces faster and not building our board for an aggro style finish.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I've had successful results with the Voidmage Prodigy. It's a good deterant for opponants and is never a dead draw because the general and 9 other creatures in the deck are wizards so "ammuniton" isn't an immediate problem when the Prodigy hits the field. Plus, it adds another layer of complexity and ability to the other wizard creatures in play... if blue is about having options, i find that the Voidmage Prodigy expands the options of the creatures in my deck.
Well among the few problems I had with the card are: sometimes finding UU early game is tough, it doesn't usually let us counter a spell the turn we play it, and opponents won't cast the card we must counter while we have it in play. I found the Prodigy to be a late-game defensive piece which also doubles as a sac outlet. Gaddock Teeg essentially replaced Voidmage Prodigy's purpose but can be active from second turn onwards and is more easily tutored for, making it better fit here in my book
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
1. Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Skullclamp/Birthing Pod vs punking artifact ramp mana bases and equipment voltron with Null Rod and Stony Silence. While Birthing Pod is amazingly solid for us, the other cards just aren't that important. It certainly seems clear that if you can expect to see Sharuum, you should go the Rod/Silence route.
2. Land Equilibrium. We can function on 2-3 lands. Most decks can't.
3. What is the best untap outlet? Probably Time Vault, but it's not legal. Ideally, we want to turn untaps into cards drawn or permanents destroyed? Lux Cannon, Heimdar, Surgespanner, Azami, and Birthing Pod seem like the standout best outlets.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Glad to see another Derevi list! Your focus on disruption is interesting. I'll add that your curve should be really low if you want to operate off 3 lands while carrying all that MLD. As for your observations
1. The early game acceleration from Mana Crypt/Sol Ring was too potent to set aside. Being able to push out bombs turn 3 is one of Derevi's goals. Birthing Pod is a champ. Skullclamp removes creatures from the battlefield and that hurts us. Derevi is creature-centric. Haven't played Sharuum with Derevi yet, might recommend Rest in Peace with some more artifact disruption.
2. 3 Lands gets us going. More lets us empty our hand faster.
3. Best untap outlet has been Bloom Tender for me. Cradle, Gilded Lotus, Birthing Pod, and Sisay have also been good. Deadeye has been really, really good
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL