- You enjoy a deck that is resilient enough to win through heavy disruption and boardwipes.
- You love running 16 spells of 7 CMC or more, making things like Chaos Warping Mirari's Wake often backfire.
- You want a deck that truly embraces 'the spirit of EDH' without suffering for it.
Why you might look elsewhere:
- You play versus a lot of combo with little removal. (We can probably stall and kill the average Sharuum or Azami player before they can go off, but versus 2-3 dedicated combo decks we're unable to stop them all.)
- You don't enjoy swinging fat creatures at your squishy opponents.
- You're unable to focus on the biggest threat, and/or have bad threat detection. (If you're swinging equally against snake tribal and Azami Combo, you're going to lose a lot of games.)
Remember that in this deck, almost every card is either capable of doing more than one thing or great at what it does.
Thus if you're unsure why I have so few creatures listed under beaters look at the other categories, a 6/5 Creature with Fear beats hard, but its ability allows it to be removal too, so I listed it there.
While the high average cmc of 4.6 including the general might make you think this is a slow deck, it's actually consistent and pretty fast. While early aggro might be seen as a problem, I have enough lifelink cards to stabilize and take over.
Horde of Notions: If you've tried Progenitus as a general, you'll know he almost never actually drops due to his color intensive and expensive mana cost. Horde drops easily, and is great as killing with General Damage. I suggest picking a target for him, and another for your fatties so you don't waste the general damage.
His recursion only affects a few cards here, but it's not the main reason you want him. (It helps though!)
Scourge of the Throne: At worst you're hitting people with a 5/5 dragon and have the highest life total. At best you're going to have the highest life total soon.
Spearbreaker Behemoth: So far he's worked great as a way of making people unable to kill or block your fatties, so he's gold in my book. You'll never see a Wrath of God while you have him and a few mana open.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind: Heals you while he hurts the enemy and provides a steel wall of defense!
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: Anti-Mill, Draws Cards, Destroys Boards, Ruins Faces and is totes my BFF!
Buffs
Civic Saber: Makes your General a 10/5 for easy 3 swing kills. Tiny mana investment for a big gain!
Boros Charm: Double Strike to secure a kill, or indestructibility to turn a boardwipe one-sided.
Behemoth Sledge: An allstar on Retaliator Griffin, it stabilizes life and adds threat to any creature it's on. Too bad it doesn't make creatures with lifelink give 2x life anymore.
Urabrask the Hidden: Gives you haste and makes your opponents unable to kill you instantly with infinite tokens. Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest never seemed so silly. The fact that they can't play surprise blockers and you get a turn to decide if you want to remove a creature is just extra.
Recursion
Sun Titan: He's a great beater with the ability to bring back fetches at worst for late game ramp. Given you're likely to be getting 2 mana per land tap later, it'll let you continue to play high CMC cards and keep mana open for responses.
Charnelhoard Wurm: With the buffs in this deck hitting with this guy is pretty easy, and with the mana ramp and Omniscience playing what you get it easier. I wish there were more cards like this!
Card Advantage
Not all of the card advantage comes directly from card draw, but I have a lot of cards the improve quality of the cards you draw and give you free spells on cast. That's why I chose to title it Card Advantage.
Demonic Tutor: I don't think I need to justify this. It's like if the blank scrabble piece was worth 50 points.
Vanish into Memory: This is my favorite card of all time. If you've never used it before, wait till someone tries to Go for the Throat your Retaliator Griffin and you respond by drawing 20 cards and discarding two later, while saving him. Or try using it on Spark Trooper, drawing 6, discarding one and getting another swing out of him.
Etched Monstrosity: Aside from drawing you a lot of cards and being a 10/10 beater after, he's a great Vanish into Memory target, because he'll come back as a 5/5.
Maelstrom Nexus: You can tutor Claws of Gix by playing a 1 cost card, or just playing Maelstrom Wanderer and have triple cascade, getting Enigma Sphinx for Cascade-ception. You'll get all sorts of cool stuff for playing responses on opponent's turns too, so that's cool.
Rush of Knowledge: What kind of deck runs enough high CMC permanents to consistently make this give you 7-10 cards? Oh yeah, this one.
Memory Jar: Disrupt your opponents, get a full grip of cards to play and recurs with Sharuum the Hegemon. What's not to love? Be sure not to play land for turn before using it.
Enigma Sphinx: He cascades, beats and is kinda like robot-cat-bird-jesus with his ability to come back three cards later.
Prime Speaker Zegana: The card advantage god! Turns into a huge fatty that gives you tons of cards as it hits, and therefore triggers things like Where Ancients Tread favorably.
Sphinx of Uthuun: Fact or Fiction is a great card. Maybe the best legal draw spell. This is that card on a 5/6 body. the 6 toughness gives you the ability to survive 99% of fliers in my experience, and the 5 power makes them die and any hits he deals hurt a whole lot.
Wild Pair: It's a repeatable tutor that brings them onto the battlefield. We have enough creatures that you'll rarely fail to find something. It's pretty great.
Myojin of Night's Reach: I wasn't sure if this should be in CA or Removal, but the fact is that it belongs in the deck. If it's hardcast and resolves it's almost guaranteed to win you the game.
Maelstrom Wanderer: Aside from granting haste and giving you two free spells, he also offers the ability to be recurred with cascade triggers intact with Horde of Notions. Talk about value!
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: The one stop whine shop! He'll draw you so hard you may need to discard, plain make your opponent's discard or scoop and has flash for those fancy smart players.
Removal
Qasali Pridemage: He's great for giving your general a boost on his first attack, allowing for a potential 4 swing kill. The removal is great too.
Counterflux: We're not going to win a counterspell war, so let's head that off at the pass.
Render Silent: Maelstrom Wanderer won't know what hit him! This is honestly one of my favorite counterspells ever now. Try it out!
Bant Charm: Tucks generals, avoids grave-hate, breaks artifacts, counters Cyclonic Rift and more. It's one of the best removal cards in the format.
Crib Swap: Horde of Notions can recast this any time for 5 mana, so their general can look forward to being a lot of 1/1 Merfolk Bird Advisors.
Krosan Grip: A staple in almost any deck running green! It's one of the best removal spells printed for EDH, and is one of the few cards able to stop a lot of infinite combos even with counter backup! You can blow it on Sensei's Divining Top in 1-on-1 and tell them they need to go topless too.
Warstorm Surge: One of the best cards here! Removal + Nuke is great, but the fact that the creature deals the damage means that lifelink creatures can quickly erase a life deficit!
Gruul Ragebeast: Fatties enter, and now land on the smaller creatures. Seriously, this is kinda hard to backfire in this deck.
Ashen Rider: This is one of my new favorite cards. The value from him makes him a top reanimation target, and he's gotten me out of a lot of sticky situations. Seriously sexy flier.
Avatar of Woe: It should say CMC: 2, but I can deal with that because of Rush of Knowledge. It's a 2 mana 6/5 with evasion and built in powerful, reusable removal, how can it not be great?
Overwhelming Forces: We like our board, but sometimes the opponent's got a better one. Wrath of God might be nice, but we love our board! Why can't we have our cake, and eat it too? WE CAN!
Lavalanche: How is a one sided boardwipe that also burns the player not great?
Ramp
Sol Ring: It may produce colorless, but it's still Sol Ring!
Chromatic Lantern: How could an artifact that makes every land Command Tower in addition to it's original effects, doesn't help my opponents and gives me another mana itself help my 5 color deck? /sarcasm
Burnished Hart: Great synergy with Sun Titan. The two lands from this really helps hit critical mass.
Fertilid: Ramps land at instant speed, so you can keep mana open to respond! Also is an elemental, and easily recurred with your general!
Sword of Feast and Famine: Our general is now a 3 hit kill, and becomes an amazing blocker. This is some of the most synergistic equipment available! Thanks to Volango for this and other suggestions!
Knight of the Reliquary: Aside from grabbing Gaea's Cradle and perfectly fixing your mana base what good is she? She gets huge biceps from all that work and beats them to death with old trees and stuff!
Skyshroud Claim: Ranger's Path is amazing, and this is strictly better. Seriously, who doesn't want 2 lands out untapped for only 4 mana?
Academy Rector: Oh, hello Omniscience! Just don't play him unless you can also kill him that turn, because people can stop him if they have time to prepare.
Rangers Path: Grabbing 2 shocks is a painless play here.
Prophet of Kruphix: This enables not just playing your hand, but playing very smart. Don't fall into the common trap of playing all your threats with the mana. Play enough to beat people down and hold the rest!
The shock duels are important. They'll keep your from getting color screwed. Their land-types are the most important part, so don't try to skimp and use guildgates, or you'll have a harder time getting your colors fixed.
Krosan Verge: This is ramp in a land! Note that these don't need to be non-basics, so grab whatever colors you need!
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep: Making horde even harder to block is always a good thing. Occasional political plays and other creatures in our deck are just a bonus.
Tsabo Tavoc: The format is full of legends, and with first strike the 4 toughness isn't really a handicap. TESTING.
Sliver Queen as General: Killing in three hits is awesome, and Skullclamp is better than spark trooper. It's a good swap on paper, but I'll need to try it out IRL.
Please feel free to suggest some more!
Cuts, Exclusions and Failed Tests
Bloom Tender: Dies to removal isn't a valid argument for most cards, but this guy gets blown over by a stiff breeze and rarely seems to last 2 turns. that's probably because my meta is Niv, Drana and removal heavy.
Fist of Suns: Even after winning because it made an easy turn 5 omniscience with no ramp, I feel this is a weak card. It's not useless (especially because it ignores general tax, but it's not good enough for goodstuff.
Bloodgift Demon: We'd rather play our general or a lot of our other guys than him, so he often sat in our hands. Not to mention that when cast, he provides only minor benefit a turn later and isn't a huge beater for the cost.
Solemn Simulacrum: Sad robot tends to come in at an awkward time, doesn't add to the beatdown and isn't a relevant creature type. Too bad, so sad.
Abrupt Decay: I've yet to have problems with control and combo isn't big in my meta, so this just ends up having no good targets. Bant Charm is amazing.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Time stretch is definitely win more; the card draw from demon is better.
The demon was underwhelming in that you never really played him turn 4 or 5 or 6, and likely waited until there are two to three turns left max before playing him.
There are so many better cards to play at that time, including the general, that it was basically a wasted card slot.
Actually I'll slot in Sun Titan in the spot, and consider testing Time Stetch later.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Changed Time Stretch for Sun Titan. He's very synergistic with our strategy so I expect he'll stay in.
I also swapped a few lands out for 5 fetches, as Sun Titan turns them into great ramp later.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
1- I played against Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind Combo/Control and Progenitus 5c Goodstuff. I ramped till turn 3. (Sol Ring, Kodama's Reach) and cast Horde Turn 4. When Niv didn't counter it I guessed he was holding some to back up a bigger threat and starting attacking him.
Other goodstuff was trying to get him manabase sorted out and amass threats. I paid him little mind.
I dropped Vorinclex turn 5 and ended up being Cyclonic Rifted by Niv. It didn't matter to me because I had Omniscience in hand and was close to casting it.
The other player seems mana screwed and plays some generic threat, but I untap, play Omniscience and slap lethal damage onto the board.
I've had a lot of games like that, and found this deck to run very smoothly. My meta has a LOT of spot removal and boardwipes, so combo decks tend to get roasted by 2-3 counters, removal spells and/or gravehate. While I doubt if I'd win 1v1 against the combo-laden Sharuum combo player, I'm almost certain he'd lose in a 3 or 4 man group, even if his combo was turn 3.
I'm looking to hear from users with similar decks and/or looking to make one like this. How does yours do? What do you like about this, dislike?
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I had a Cromat deck that played in a similar fashion. Ramp up. Play whatever I happend to draw. ???. PROFIT!! Though I limited myself to making it only a multicolored deck (minus a few artifacts). It was goofy, but I liked it because I could play so many big dumb multicolored creatures that I only really lost to real tight control decks (as you have already mentioned) and Back to Basics. =p
Have you had the chance to play anymore games with the deck?
I had a Cromat deck that played in a similar fashion. Ramp up. Play whatever I happend to draw. ???. PROFIT!! Though I limited myself to making it only a multicolored deck (minus a few artifacts). It was goofy, but I liked it because I could play so many big dumb multicolored creatures that I only really lost to real tight control decks (as you have already mentioned) and Back to Basics. =p
Have you had the chance to play anymore games with the deck?
I play with it all the time. It's one of my favorite decks. Even against a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in heads-up (with a forbid in hand, yuck!) I've pulled victorys. He's forced to spend all his time countering spells and eventually either runs out of steam, counters or lets enough slip through he loses.
In multiplayer I often get focused, but too late and win anyways. Even when 2-3 people attack me at once I'm generally able to muscle through and do something hilarious like attach a behemoth sledge to retaliator griffin and swing for 22, killing an opponent and earning back my lost life.
The deck has so many strong points it's hard to name them all, but it's ability to win through counters, removal, boardwipes and even occasionally mass LD is great. It has enough recursion (when you include having Horde as a general and Kozilek as a potential Elixir of Immortality.) to make the graveyard threatening, but even if they wipe your board, exile your grave and force you to discard your hand you can very well topdeck Wanderer, getting a Memory Jar and Academy Rector and find a sac outlet from the jar. (For Omniscience.)
That seems extreme, but situations like that have happened many times.
Heck, T3-4 Rector into Omniscience isn't rare, and you pretty much win on the spot.
It can be difficult to pilot, so be sure to look through the decklist and know what cards can do what when. For example if you have Maelstrom Nexus down and topdeck Academy Rector, playing a 1 drop is guaranteed to get you Claws of Gix, allowing you to Omniscience that turn. If you only have a 2 drop, consider where your one-drops are. What chance do you have of finding a Claws of Gix.
Similarly don't drop every creature you have on the board unless you KNOW you can win before a boardwipe happens. You want to be able to say "You broke my 3 fatties, aww. Here's 3 more!"
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Nice. My 5color funstuff wasn't nearly that competitive. I have actually never seen Rector played and its price tag (and goodstuff-ness) probably keeps it away from most of my playgroups decks. Though in yours, with Claws of Gix and Omniscience, it gets the job done.
Might build back up my 5color deck. Cromat is goofy if somehow I'm allowed to keep a mana doubler around, but it usually just durdles around or dies in the impending board wipe. I can feel the excitement you have for this deck oozing from the internet and you've peaked my interest in Horde of Notions. Love the haste and honestly, the first thing I noticed about the deck was that it had Spark Trooper in it. Glad that guy is getting some love. If I remake my build I'll be sure to post it up.
Nice. My 5color funstuff wasn't nearly that competitive. I have actually never seen Rector played and its price tag (and goodstuff-ness) probably keeps it away from most of my playgroups decks. Though in yours, with Claws of Gix and Omniscience, it gets the job done.
Might build back up my 5color deck. Cromat is goofy if somehow I'm allowed to keep a mana doubler around, but it usually just durdles around or dies in the impending board wipe. I can feel the excitement you have for this deck oozing from the internet and you've peaked my interest in Horde of Notions. Love the haste and honestly, the first thing I noticed about the deck was that it had Spark Trooper in it. Glad that guy is getting some love. If I remake my build I'll be sure to post it up.
Yeah. When the guys at my local game shop saw me playing Spark Trooper they thought I was nuts. "He's terrible in EDH!" they yelled. Then when I played him every turn and brought my life from ~12 to 30 while beating people to death they started seeing the use in him. He's also once helped me suddenly have enough creatures to cast Maelstrom Wanderer from Windbrisk Heights.
He's great for stabilizing life when people really have it out for you, and the fact that he alone can force them to blow their gravehate prematurely frees up the graveyard for repeated sac then plays of Maelstrom Wanderer.
Horde's great because they can't NOT remove him, but they also will need the removal for your other creatures. Unless you've got something planned lead your other 5+ drops with him to eat counters and removal.
If you choose to make this deck, Maelstrom Wanderer will be one of your favorite cards (as you may be able to tell.) so pick up one of the foil copies. You'll thank me later.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Considering trading Fist of Suns for Lotus Bloom. Does anyone agree, disagree or have a better ramp suggestion. I do love the fact that it gets rid of general tax and can make for an easy turn 4 or 5 Omniscience, but I feel it's dead too often. Even for cards like Sun Titan I generally end up casting them normally because it's easier to save the right colors for removal and answers like Negate and such.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I'm looking at my creatures and feel like Progenitus is a little weak. He's just a huge 10/10 dude that's nearly impossible to kill, and can't be blocked. Aside from feeling silly for using the word just there, it's true.
What do you guys think I should swap out, and what would you add?
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Dang it Elliot I was thinking of building a child of alara land deck but I think I might try this one out. Seems way more fun to beat face with a bunch of big dudes. Do you like this deck better than the Kozilek primer?
Dang it Elliot I was thinking of building a child of alara land deck but I think I might try this one out. Seems way more fun to beat face with a bunch of big dudes. Do you like this deck better than the Kozilek primer?
This is my favorite deck. You'd be right. I underestimated how much fun this deck would be, and that's while thinking it would be cool.
There's little better than the feeling of pulling out a win when everyone decides to kill you "because you won last game." and you have 1 turn to win. I've done it a few times, but my favorite was (with where ancients tread out) playing a memory jar, grabbing academy rector on the activation, sacing for omniscience and finding lethal through Where Anciencts Tread + Warstorm Surge while still having attack phase left over.
Hey do you find yourself paying the life for when you look up shock lands?
Very often. That + people attacking me because of reputation + being attacked for ramping is the reason some lifegain is important. I'd guess I average 8 self damage per game. (Much more when I can protect a Bringer of the Black Dawn.)
I personally find the black-style attitude towards life loss awesome. We're going to murder everyone with huge creatures, or kill ourselves trying!
ABU duels would be really good though. (Too much $$$)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Haha, I like your approach to Horde of Notions. I mean this deck is the Timmy dream!
My version has a much lower curve then yours and a bit more focused on the commander but I must say I like your style
Here are some ideas/pointers for you list:
I run Ephara and Karametra. They both create insane value and once your board is developed add to the beatdown (the devotion is surprisingly easy to get online, considering this is 5C)
I have a Sunforger in my deck. There's already a good number of spells (including Vanish into Memory, in which you definitely got me interested ;)) in your deck that can jump out of it and with some minor adjustments to your removal suite (I like Counterflux and Render Silent) Sunforger would definitely be worthwhile. It's definitly a mid- lategame tech but once you have enough mana (or Omniscience or Prophet of Kruphix) it puts you in control of the game (alongside adding 4 power to Horde).
I also very strongly recommend Sword of Feast and Famine. It's seriously insane on Horde of Notions. It makes it very hard to profitably block, protects it, puts it in triple hit kill range and the tempo advantage from untapping your lands is just stupid.
If you now are interested in adding a few equipments I can also recommend Godo, Bandit Warlord which gives Horde and all other vigilant creatures another combat phase.
It's probably a bit of a meta question but I think Swan Song might be better than Negate.
One last question do you ever find yourself with too few basic lands for your ramp?
My own Horde of Notions list is linked in my primer I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that
Haha, I like your approach to Horde of Notions. I mean this deck is the Timmy dream!
My version has a much lower curve then yours and a bit more focused on the commander but I must say I like your style
Here are some ideas/pointers for you list:
I run Ephara and Karametra. They both create insane value and once your board is developed add to the beatdown (the devotion is surprisingly easy to get online, considering this is 5C)
I have a Sunforger in my deck. There's already a good number of spells (including Vanish into Memory, in which you definitely got me interested ;)) in your deck that can jump out of it and with some minor adjustments to your removal suite (I like Counterflux and Render Silent) Sunforger would definitely be worthwhile. It's definitly a mid- lategame tech but once you have enough mana (or Omniscience or Prophet of Kruphix) it puts you in control of the game (alongside adding 4 power to Horde).
I also very strongly recommend Sword of Feast and Famine. It's seriously insane on Horde of Notions. It makes it very hard to profitably block, protects it, puts it in triple hit kill range and the tempo advantage from untapping your lands is just stupid.
If you now are interested in adding a few equipments I can also recommend Godo, Bandit Warlord which gives Horde and all other vigilant creatures another combat phase.
It's probably a bit of a meta question but I think Swan Song might be better than Negate.
One last question do you ever find yourself with too few basic lands for your ramp?
My own Horde of Notions list is linked in my primer I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that
The Sunforger idea is sexy as hell. I'm putting it in. As for Sword of Feast and Famine: I've tried not running it, but I think I need to add it now.
As for your list: I'd trade Time of Need for Demonic Tutor. (You could just grab the legendary, and a reveal isn't needed.)
I'd swap Blasphemous Act for Lavalanche (Doing this for 5-6 is enough to achieve the same effect you wanted most of the time, and spares your side. Plus it deals damage and can be a finisher.)
I personally feel Burnished Hart synergies better than Sad robot here. (Another reason for him to be sad.)
I would run a few artifact lands so you can get them via Tezzeret.
I would up the basic count a bit. Blood Moon or Back to Basics could kill you hard. Plus you can fetch them easily with high value cards like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach.
Godo seems like an easy swap for Bringer of the Black Dawn. (I know they're different in some ways, but it's my opinion.)
Add Academy Ruins. You run a lot of equipment and really enjoy it. It's worth it.
And yes, I cannot recommend Vanish Into Memory highly enough. Get a foil one, you won't regret it.
Those are the changes I can recommend with a 95% degree of certainty. Other cards I'm not sure of, but these changes are pretty big as it is.
I personally dislike the massive amount of Elementals. Some of them feel really subpar. This is more of an opinion, but something to consider. More ramp and bigger creatures becomes an easier choice the more people start running grave hate. Hell, just running better creatures that aren't elementals might be the better call.
Let me know what you think, and how any changes you go with work out!
Peace,
-Elliot S
Edit: I'd also run Omniscience and Memory Jar. Both are cards that I find I tend to win the turn I play them.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Some of the cards you mentioned, like Demonic Tutor or Kozilek, I only don't run because I don't have them and they are rather expensive. Altough I now think that I have to go an get an Academy Rector and Omniscienece
I like Blasphemous Act for various reasons: First it has awesome flavor, second it will often only cost R, meaning you have plenty mana to be the first to rebuild and third it technically has such a high cmc that you won't cascade into it. I've chosen all the boardwipes in my deck with consideration to cascade because it's already bad enough to cascade into a counter.
I definitely like Bringer of the Black Dawn and I'm looking to include it (probably cutting Time of Need) but I won't cut Godo because between the Equipment tutoring (and putting it on the BF!) and the extra attack steps he's just too versatile and synergistic with my deck not too run.
So far I liked Ingot Chewer because there's always a problematic artifact that has to be dealt with but as I raise the amount of ramp and the mana curve I'll probably be looking for something else.
Anyway thanks for your suggestions
I now have a ton of cards to pick up and somehow fit into the deck...
I now have a ton of cards to pick up and somehow fit into the deck...
Oh the joys of deck building!
EDIT: Demonic Tutor is < 7 dollars on TCG player. The seller at that price (Hot Sauce Games) is great. I remember because they are careful with the packing and extremely quick to ship. You can't go wrong with them.
Kozilek is expensive as heck now. Glad I got him when he was like 15 dollars.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
hey have you ever thought of putting in a corpse dance package in with ashnods altar?
No, mostly because I don't have enough sac outlets that I could reliably pull it off. There's a ton og great things I could throw in, but just not enough room to do it. If you try it out, let me know how it works.
Private Mod Note
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
So for the recommendations you gave to Volango are you considering any of them yourself? Like putting in lightning greaves? And what do you think about putting any swords into this deck?
So for the recommendations you gave to Volango are you considering any of them yourself? Like putting in lightning greaves? And what do you think about putting any swords into this deck?
I was saying to cut lightning greaves for super haste.
I did add the sword of feast and famine because of the ramp and how useful the discard is 1v1, but the other swords don't feel as worthwhile. Maybe if our general had double strike. They may enable 3 turn general clocks, but I find most of my wins come from a board with 3-5 beaters that I protect and replace as necessary.
I could play more than 3-5 beaters, but overextending into a board wipe is a bad move, especially because people will likely focus you once that happens. I personally plan for it, and leave my lifelink and vigillance dudes for after.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Why to play this deck:
- You like to swing big fat creatures at people
- You enjoy a deck that is resilient enough to win through heavy disruption and boardwipes.
- You love running 16 spells of 7 CMC or more, making things like Chaos Warping Mirari's Wake often backfire.
- You want a deck that truly embraces 'the spirit of EDH' without suffering for it.
Why you might look elsewhere:
- You play versus a lot of combo with little removal. (We can probably stall and kill the average Sharuum or Azami player before they can go off, but versus 2-3 dedicated combo decks we're unable to stop them all.)
- You don't enjoy swinging fat creatures at your squishy opponents.
- You're unable to focus on the biggest threat, and/or have bad threat detection. (If you're swinging equally against snake tribal and Azami Combo, you're going to lose a lot of games.)
Remember that in this deck, almost every card is either capable of doing more than one thing or great at what it does.
Thus if you're unsure why I have so few creatures listed under beaters look at the other categories, a 6/5 Creature with Fear beats hard, but its ability allows it to be removal too, so I listed it there.
While the high average cmc of 4.6 including the general might make you think this is a slow deck, it's actually consistent and pretty fast. While early aggro might be seen as a problem, I have enough lifelink cards to stabilize and take over.
1 Horde of Notions
Beaters
1 Serra Ascendant
4 Spellbreaker Behemoth
4 Dack's Duplicate
6 Scourge of the Throne
7 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
7 Spearbreaker Behemoth
8 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
8 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Buffs
1 Civic Saber
2 Boros Charm
4 Sunforger
5 Urabrask the Hidden
Recursion
2 Ashes of the Fallen
6 Sun Titan
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
7 Charnelhoard Wurm
Card Advantage (If not direct draw)
2 Demonic Tutor
4 Vanish into Memory
5 Etched Monstrosity
5 Maelstrom Nexus
5 Rush of Knowledge
5 Memory Jar
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
6 Wild Pair
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
7 Enigma Sphinx
8 Myojin of Night's Reach
8 Maelstrom Wanderer
10 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Removal
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Render Silent
3 Counterflux
3 Bant Charm
3 Crib Swap
3 Putrefy
3 Mortify
4 Decimate
5 Where Ancients Tread
6 Warstorm Surge
7 Gruul Ragebeast
8 Ashen Rider
8 Avatar of Woe
8 Overwhelming Forces
3 Lavalanche
1 Sol Ring
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Burnished Hart
3 Fertilid
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Academy Rector
4 Ranger's Path
4 Defense of the Heart
5 Prophet of Kruphix
5 Mirari's Wake
5 Maelstrom Archangel
5 Gilded Lotus
10 Omniscience
Sac Outlets
0 Claws of Gix
3 Ashnod's Altar
Lands
1 Krosan Verge
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Command Tower
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Windbrisk Heights
3 Island
1 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Card Choices:
General
Horde of Notions: If you've tried Progenitus as a general, you'll know he almost never actually drops due to his color intensive and expensive mana cost. Horde drops easily, and is great as killing with General Damage. I suggest picking a target for him, and another for your fatties so you don't waste the general damage.
His recursion only affects a few cards here, but it's not the main reason you want him. (It helps though!)
Beaters
Serra Ascendant: Brokenly Good Early, Best T1 drop here.
Spellbreaker Behemoth: Few things scare Azami more than this followed by more fatties.
Dack's Duplicate: What's better than Sphinx of Steel Wind? Sphinx of Steel Wind with Haste and Dethrone. What's the cmc though? 4! Wow.
Scourge of the Throne: At worst you're hitting people with a 5/5 dragon and have the highest life total. At best you're going to have the highest life total soon.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight: Aside from the obvious beatdown she provides, she shuts Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, Nekusar, the Mindrazer and like 500 other wincons down HARD. (If you don't get it RTFC. She prevents half, rounded up, so 1 damage pings turn into 0.)
Spearbreaker Behemoth: So far he's worked great as a way of making people unable to kill or block your fatties, so he's gold in my book. You'll never see a Wrath of God while you have him and a few mana open.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind: Heals you while he hurts the enemy and provides a steel wall of defense!
Avacyn, Angel of Hope: You win my week's internets if you flash her in response to Planar Cleansing via Prophet of Kruphix.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: Anti-Mill, Draws Cards, Destroys Boards, Ruins Faces and is totes my BFF!
Buffs
Civic Saber: Makes your General a 10/5 for easy 3 swing kills. Tiny mana investment for a big gain!
Boros Charm: Double Strike to secure a kill, or indestructibility to turn a boardwipe one-sided.
Behemoth Sledge: An allstar on Retaliator Griffin, it stabilizes life and adds threat to any creature it's on. Too bad it doesn't make creatures with lifelink give 2x life anymore.
Urabrask the Hidden: Gives you haste and makes your opponents unable to kill you instantly with infinite tokens. Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest never seemed so silly. The fact that they can't play surprise blockers and you get a turn to decide if you want to remove a creature is just extra.
Recursion
Sun Titan: He's a great beater with the ability to bring back fetches at worst for late game ramp. Given you're likely to be getting 2 mana per land tap later, it'll let you continue to play high CMC cards and keep mana open for responses.
Sheoldred, Whispering One: He does a lot of damage, both to their fields and life, while making them with they hadn't "wasted" that removal on Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger.
Charnelhoard Wurm: With the buffs in this deck hitting with this guy is pretty easy, and with the mana ramp and Omniscience playing what you get it easier. I wish there were more cards like this!
Card Advantage
Not all of the card advantage comes directly from card draw, but I have a lot of cards the improve quality of the cards you draw and give you free spells on cast. That's why I chose to title it Card Advantage.
Demonic Tutor: I don't think I need to justify this. It's like if the blank scrabble piece was worth 50 points.
Vanish into Memory: This is my favorite card of all time. If you've never used it before, wait till someone tries to Go for the Throat your Retaliator Griffin and you respond by drawing 20 cards and discarding two later, while saving him. Or try using it on Spark Trooper, drawing 6, discarding one and getting another swing out of him.
I've got a whole thread about this card, I recommend checking it out:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567283
Etched Monstrosity: Aside from drawing you a lot of cards and being a 10/10 beater after, he's a great Vanish into Memory target, because he'll come back as a 5/5.
Maelstrom Nexus: You can tutor Claws of Gix by playing a 1 cost card, or just playing Maelstrom Wanderer and have triple cascade, getting Enigma Sphinx for Cascade-ception. You'll get all sorts of cool stuff for playing responses on opponent's turns too, so that's cool.
Rush of Knowledge: What kind of deck runs enough high CMC permanents to consistently make this give you 7-10 cards? Oh yeah, this one.
Memory Jar: Disrupt your opponents, get a full grip of cards to play and recurs with Sharuum the Hegemon. What's not to love? Be sure not to play land for turn before using it.
Enigma Sphinx: He cascades, beats and is kinda like robot-cat-bird-jesus with his ability to come back three cards later.
Prime Speaker Zegana: The card advantage god! Turns into a huge fatty that gives you tons of cards as it hits, and therefore triggers things like Where Ancients Tread favorably.
Sphinx of Uthuun: Fact or Fiction is a great card. Maybe the best legal draw spell. This is that card on a 5/6 body. the 6 toughness gives you the ability to survive 99% of fliers in my experience, and the 5 power makes them die and any hits he deals hurt a whole lot.
Wild Pair: It's a repeatable tutor that brings them onto the battlefield. We have enough creatures that you'll rarely fail to find something. It's pretty great.
Myojin of Night's Reach: I wasn't sure if this should be in CA or Removal, but the fact is that it belongs in the deck. If it's hardcast and resolves it's almost guaranteed to win you the game.
Maelstrom Wanderer: Aside from granting haste and giving you two free spells, he also offers the ability to be recurred with cascade triggers intact with Horde of Notions. Talk about value!
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: The one stop whine shop! He'll draw you so hard you may need to discard, plain make your opponent's discard or scoop and has flash for those fancy smart players.
Removal
Qasali Pridemage: He's great for giving your general a boost on his first attack, allowing for a potential 4 swing kill. The removal is great too.
Counterflux: We're not going to win a counterspell war, so let's head that off at the pass.
Render Silent: Maelstrom Wanderer won't know what hit him! This is honestly one of my favorite counterspells ever now. Try it out!
Bant Charm: Tucks generals, avoids grave-hate, breaks artifacts, counters Cyclonic Rift and more. It's one of the best removal cards in the format.
Crib Swap: Horde of Notions can recast this any time for 5 mana, so their general can look forward to being a lot of 1/1 Merfolk Bird Advisors.
Putrefy, Mortify: Very Solid Removal.
Krosan Grip: A staple in almost any deck running green! It's one of the best removal spells printed for EDH, and is one of the few cards able to stop a lot of infinite combos even with counter backup! You can blow it on Sensei's Divining Top in 1-on-1 and tell them they need to go topless too.
Where Ancients Tread: Worse Warstorm Surge is still good enough to run.
Warstorm Surge: One of the best cards here! Removal + Nuke is great, but the fact that the creature deals the damage means that lifelink creatures can quickly erase a life deficit!
Gruul Ragebeast: Fatties enter, and now land on the smaller creatures. Seriously, this is kinda hard to backfire in this deck.
Ashen Rider: This is one of my new favorite cards. The value from him makes him a top reanimation target, and he's gotten me out of a lot of sticky situations. Seriously sexy flier.
Avatar of Woe: It should say CMC: 2, but I can deal with that because of Rush of Knowledge. It's a 2 mana 6/5 with evasion and built in powerful, reusable removal, how can it not be great?
Overwhelming Forces: We like our board, but sometimes the opponent's got a better one. Wrath of God might be nice, but we love our board! Why can't we have our cake, and eat it too? WE CAN!
Lavalanche: How is a one sided boardwipe that also burns the player not great?
Ramp
Sol Ring: It may produce colorless, but it's still Sol Ring!
Chromatic Lantern: How could an artifact that makes every land Command Tower in addition to it's original effects, doesn't help my opponents and gives me another mana itself help my 5 color deck? /sarcasm
Burnished Hart: Great synergy with Sun Titan. The two lands from this really helps hit critical mass.
Fertilid: Ramps land at instant speed, so you can keep mana open to respond! Also is an elemental, and easily recurred with your general!
Sword of Feast and Famine: Our general is now a 3 hit kill, and becomes an amazing blocker. This is some of the most synergistic equipment available! Thanks to Volango for this and other suggestions!
Kodama's Reach, Cultivate: Secure a land drop and ramp!
Knight of the Reliquary: Aside from grabbing Gaea's Cradle and perfectly fixing your mana base what good is she? She gets huge biceps from all that work and beats them to death with old trees and stuff!
Skyshroud Claim: Ranger's Path is amazing, and this is strictly better. Seriously, who doesn't want 2 lands out untapped for only 4 mana?
Academy Rector: Oh, hello Omniscience! Just don't play him unless you can also kill him that turn, because people can stop him if they have time to prepare.
Rangers Path: Grabbing 2 shocks is a painless play here.
Defense of the Heart: While not exactly Ramp per se, it's amazing. Either your opponents use removal on it, hurt their tempo and play around it, or give you a free win. (Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur are only one combo that rocks.)
Prophet of Kruphix: This enables not just playing your hand, but playing very smart. Don't fall into the common trap of playing all your threats with the mana. Play enough to beat people down and hold the rest!
Mirari's Wake: More mana? Check! More punch? Check!
Maelstrom Archangel: Evasive Beater that plays fatties for free and not able to be conventionally countered? Sounds good!
Gilded Lotus: Do I need to explain how solid this is?
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger: Punches, Ramps and Destroys Tempo. While the jump from 8 to 16 mana isn't that big in some decks, we'll utilize him fully!
Omniscience: Free everything, Game Winner, Top Dog. Too bad I can't run 4!
Sac Outlets
Claws of Gix: This comes out off of any 1 drop with Maelstrom Nexus out, and I'd much rather gain a life than let them have my Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
Ashnod's Altar: Optionally replace with Phyrexian Altar. I used this because it was sitting around.
Lands
The shock duels are important. They'll keep your from getting color screwed. Their land-types are the most important part, so don't try to skimp and use guildgates, or you'll have a harder time getting your colors fixed.
Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn, Verdant Catacombs: Fetch any color in combination with shock lands. Duals would make these even better, but our deck packs plenty of lifegain so we should stabilize from a few cases of 3 self damage.
Krosan Verge: This is ramp in a land! Note that these don't need to be non-basics, so grab whatever colors you need!
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep: Making horde even harder to block is always a good thing. Occasional political plays and other creatures in our deck are just a bonus.
Rupture Spire, Transguild Promenade: Great Turn 2 lands, as we normally don't do much turn 2.
Command Tower, Reflecting Pool: Both tap for 5 colors, and enter untapped. Simply amazing.
Exotic Orchard: We have 5 colors, so this is always a good land.
Mosswort Bridge, Spinerock Knoll, Windbrisk Heights: Free Stuff? Sure!
Gaea's Cradle: Does this need explanation? If you're budget you can swap this for almost anything, but Temple of the False God is pretty good.
--------------------
Testing / To Test
Nicol Bolas: Wit's End on a huge, dragon-shaped, stick.
Tsabo Tavoc: The format is full of legends, and with first strike the 4 toughness isn't really a handicap. TESTING.
Sliver Queen as General: Killing in three hits is awesome, and Skullclamp is better than spark trooper. It's a good swap on paper, but I'll need to try it out IRL.
Please feel free to suggest some more!
Cuts, Exclusions and Failed Tests
Bloom Tender: Dies to removal isn't a valid argument for most cards, but this guy gets blown over by a stiff breeze and rarely seems to last 2 turns. that's probably because my meta is Niv, Drana and removal heavy.
Fist of Suns: Even after winning because it made an easy turn 5 omniscience with no ramp, I feel this is a weak card. It's not useless (especially because it ignores general tax, but it's not good enough for goodstuff.
Bloodgift Demon: We'd rather play our general or a lot of our other guys than him, so he often sat in our hands. Not to mention that when cast, he provides only minor benefit a turn later and isn't a huge beater for the cost.
Solemn Simulacrum: Sad robot tends to come in at an awkward time, doesn't add to the beatdown and isn't a relevant creature type. Too bad, so sad.
Time Stretch: It's win-more.
Abrupt Decay: I've yet to have problems with control and combo isn't big in my meta, so this just ends up having no good targets. Bant Charm is amazing.
Taken out for Fetch Lands to sync with Sun Titan.
Original Duels: You got that kind of money? I don't.
Wondering why I don't run a card? Feel free to ask! Try to search the thread first though, in case people have asked before.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
The demon was underwhelming in that you never really played him turn 4 or 5 or 6, and likely waited until there are two to three turns left max before playing him.
There are so many better cards to play at that time, including the general, that it was basically a wasted card slot.
Actually I'll slot in Sun Titan in the spot, and consider testing Time Stetch later.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I also swapped a few lands out for 5 fetches, as Sun Titan turns them into great ramp later.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
1- I played against Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind Combo/Control and Progenitus 5c Goodstuff. I ramped till turn 3. (Sol Ring, Kodama's Reach) and cast Horde Turn 4. When Niv didn't counter it I guessed he was holding some to back up a bigger threat and starting attacking him.
Other goodstuff was trying to get him manabase sorted out and amass threats. I paid him little mind.
I dropped Vorinclex turn 5 and ended up being Cyclonic Rifted by Niv. It didn't matter to me because I had Omniscience in hand and was close to casting it.
The next turn I cast Maelstrom Wanderer and cascade Warstorm Surge, then Mirari's Wake. He used Chaos Warp on Mirari's Wake and it turns into Avacyn, Angel of Hope. He takes 30 to the face and dies.
The other player seems mana screwed and plays some generic threat, but I untap, play Omniscience and slap lethal damage onto the board.
I've had a lot of games like that, and found this deck to run very smoothly. My meta has a LOT of spot removal and boardwipes, so combo decks tend to get roasted by 2-3 counters, removal spells and/or gravehate. While I doubt if I'd win 1v1 against the combo-laden Sharuum combo player, I'm almost certain he'd lose in a 3 or 4 man group, even if his combo was turn 3.
I'm looking to hear from users with similar decks and/or looking to make one like this. How does yours do? What do you like about this, dislike?
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Have you had the chance to play anymore games with the deck?
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
My Trade Thread
Current EDH Decks
Braids
Wrexial
Bruna
Marath
Vorel
Tariel WIP
I play with it all the time. It's one of my favorite decks. Even against a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in heads-up (with a forbid in hand, yuck!) I've pulled victorys. He's forced to spend all his time countering spells and eventually either runs out of steam, counters or lets enough slip through he loses.
In multiplayer I often get focused, but too late and win anyways. Even when 2-3 people attack me at once I'm generally able to muscle through and do something hilarious like attach a behemoth sledge to retaliator griffin and swing for 22, killing an opponent and earning back my lost life.
The deck has so many strong points it's hard to name them all, but it's ability to win through counters, removal, boardwipes and even occasionally mass LD is great. It has enough recursion (when you include having Horde as a general and Kozilek as a potential Elixir of Immortality.) to make the graveyard threatening, but even if they wipe your board, exile your grave and force you to discard your hand you can very well topdeck Wanderer, getting a Memory Jar and Academy Rector and find a sac outlet from the jar. (For Omniscience.)
That seems extreme, but situations like that have happened many times.
Heck, T3-4 Rector into Omniscience isn't rare, and you pretty much win on the spot.
It can be difficult to pilot, so be sure to look through the decklist and know what cards can do what when. For example if you have Maelstrom Nexus down and topdeck Academy Rector, playing a 1 drop is guaranteed to get you Claws of Gix, allowing you to Omniscience that turn. If you only have a 2 drop, consider where your one-drops are. What chance do you have of finding a Claws of Gix.
Similarly don't drop every creature you have on the board unless you KNOW you can win before a boardwipe happens. You want to be able to say "You broke my 3 fatties, aww. Here's 3 more!"
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Might build back up my 5color deck. Cromat is goofy if somehow I'm allowed to keep a mana doubler around, but it usually just durdles around or dies in the impending board wipe. I can feel the excitement you have for this deck oozing from the internet and you've peaked my interest in Horde of Notions. Love the haste and honestly, the first thing I noticed about the deck was that it had Spark Trooper in it. Glad that guy is getting some love. If I remake my build I'll be sure to post it up.
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
My Trade Thread
Current EDH Decks
Braids
Wrexial
Bruna
Marath
Vorel
Tariel WIP
Yeah. When the guys at my local game shop saw me playing Spark Trooper they thought I was nuts. "He's terrible in EDH!" they yelled. Then when I played him every turn and brought my life from ~12 to 30 while beating people to death they started seeing the use in him. He's also once helped me suddenly have enough creatures to cast Maelstrom Wanderer from Windbrisk Heights.
He's great for stabilizing life when people really have it out for you, and the fact that he alone can force them to blow their gravehate prematurely frees up the graveyard for repeated sac then plays of Maelstrom Wanderer.
Horde's great because they can't NOT remove him, but they also will need the removal for your other creatures. Unless you've got something planned lead your other 5+ drops with him to eat counters and removal.
If you choose to make this deck, Maelstrom Wanderer will be one of your favorite cards (as you may be able to tell.) so pick up one of the foil copies. You'll thank me later.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I'm looking at my creatures and feel like Progenitus is a little weak. He's just a huge 10/10 dude that's nearly impossible to kill, and can't be blocked. Aside from feeling silly for using the word just there, it's true.
I feel like I should swap out a few of the more vanilla beaters for ones that do more like Mindleech Mass or Spearbreaker Behemoth.
What do you guys think I should swap out, and what would you add?
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
This is my favorite deck. You'd be right. I underestimated how much fun this deck would be, and that's while thinking it would be cool.
There's little better than the feeling of pulling out a win when everyone decides to kill you "because you won last game." and you have 1 turn to win. I've done it a few times, but my favorite was (with where ancients tread out) playing a memory jar, grabbing academy rector on the activation, sacing for omniscience and finding lethal through Where Anciencts Tread + Warstorm Surge while still having attack phase left over.
Very often. That + people attacking me because of reputation + being attacked for ramping is the reason some lifegain is important. I'd guess I average 8 self damage per game. (Much more when I can protect a Bringer of the Black Dawn.)
I personally find the black-style attitude towards life loss awesome. We're going to murder everyone with huge creatures, or kill ourselves trying!
ABU duels would be really good though. (Too much $$$)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
My version has a much lower curve then yours and a bit more focused on the commander but I must say I like your style
Here are some ideas/pointers for you list:
I run Ephara and Karametra. They both create insane value and once your board is developed add to the beatdown (the devotion is surprisingly easy to get online, considering this is 5C)
I have a Sunforger in my deck. There's already a good number of spells (including Vanish into Memory, in which you definitely got me interested ;)) in your deck that can jump out of it and with some minor adjustments to your removal suite (I like Counterflux and Render Silent) Sunforger would definitely be worthwhile. It's definitly a mid- lategame tech but once you have enough mana (or Omniscience or Prophet of Kruphix) it puts you in control of the game (alongside adding 4 power to Horde).
I also very strongly recommend Sword of Feast and Famine. It's seriously insane on Horde of Notions. It makes it very hard to profitably block, protects it, puts it in triple hit kill range and the tempo advantage from untapping your lands is just stupid.
If you now are interested in adding a few equipments I can also recommend Godo, Bandit Warlord which gives Horde and all other vigilant creatures another combat phase.
It's probably a bit of a meta question but I think Swan Song might be better than Negate.
One last question do you ever find yourself with too few basic lands for your ramp?
My own Horde of Notions list is linked in my primer I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
The Sunforger idea is sexy as hell. I'm putting it in. As for Sword of Feast and Famine: I've tried not running it, but I think I need to add it now.
As for your list: I'd trade Time of Need for Demonic Tutor. (You could just grab the legendary, and a reveal isn't needed.)
I'd swap Blasphemous Act for Lavalanche (Doing this for 5-6 is enough to achieve the same effect you wanted most of the time, and spares your side. Plus it deals damage and can be a finisher.)
I'd trade Lightning Greaves for Urabrask the Hidden.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth needs to be added. Academy Rector is insane. (He's Omniscience for 4 mana.)
You should be running Mirari's Wake.
I personally feel Burnished Hart synergies better than Sad robot here. (Another reason for him to be sad.)
I would run a few artifact lands so you can get them via Tezzeret.
I would up the basic count a bit. Blood Moon or Back to Basics could kill you hard. Plus you can fetch them easily with high value cards like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach.
Godo seems like an easy swap for Bringer of the Black Dawn. (I know they're different in some ways, but it's my opinion.)
Angel of Despair should be Ashen Rider. If you want both you can, but Ashen Rider is so much better. (With Bringer of the Black Dawn in the deck Ashen Rider gains a perfect place on the Birthing Pod chain giving 2 exile effects and a 5 damage swing.)
Add Academy Ruins. You run a lot of equipment and really enjoy it. It's worth it.
And yes, I cannot recommend Vanish Into Memory highly enough. Get a foil one, you won't regret it.
Those are the changes I can recommend with a 95% degree of certainty. Other cards I'm not sure of, but these changes are pretty big as it is.
I personally dislike the massive amount of Elementals. Some of them feel really subpar. This is more of an opinion, but something to consider. More ramp and bigger creatures becomes an easier choice the more people start running grave hate. Hell, just running better creatures that aren't elementals might be the better call.
Let me know what you think, and how any changes you go with work out!
Peace,
-Elliot S
Edit: I'd also run Omniscience and Memory Jar. Both are cards that I find I tend to win the turn I play them.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I like Blasphemous Act for various reasons: First it has awesome flavor, second it will often only cost R, meaning you have plenty mana to be the first to rebuild and third it technically has such a high cmc that you won't cascade into it. I've chosen all the boardwipes in my deck with consideration to cascade because it's already bad enough to cascade into a counter.
I definitely like Bringer of the Black Dawn and I'm looking to include it (probably cutting Time of Need) but I won't cut Godo because between the Equipment tutoring (and putting it on the BF!) and the extra attack steps he's just too versatile and synergistic with my deck not too run.
Angel of Despair only was the replacement for Sylvan Primordial but Ashen Rider would probably be better (unfortunately I just traded my spare copy away :/)
So far I liked Ingot Chewer because there's always a problematic artifact that has to be dealt with but as I raise the amount of ramp and the mana curve I'll probably be looking for something else.
Anyway thanks for your suggestions
I now have a ton of cards to pick up and somehow fit into the deck...
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Oh the joys of deck building!
EDIT: Demonic Tutor is < 7 dollars on TCG player. The seller at that price (Hot Sauce Games) is great. I remember because they are careful with the packing and extremely quick to ship. You can't go wrong with them.
Kozilek is expensive as heck now. Glad I got him when he was like 15 dollars.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
No, mostly because I don't have enough sac outlets that I could reliably pull it off. There's a ton og great things I could throw in, but just not enough room to do it. If you try it out, let me know how it works.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I was saying to cut lightning greaves for super haste.
I did add the sword of feast and famine because of the ramp and how useful the discard is 1v1, but the other swords don't feel as worthwhile. Maybe if our general had double strike. They may enable 3 turn general clocks, but I find most of my wins come from a board with 3-5 beaters that I protect and replace as necessary.
I could play more than 3-5 beaters, but overextending into a board wipe is a bad move, especially because people will likely focus you once that happens. I personally plan for it, and leave my lifelink and vigillance dudes for after.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer