The only reason I mentioned her was because just the other night a player had her and Patron and was dumping land into play. But she was useful when a player tried to counter one of my spells and the Uyo player copied the counterspell in order to let my spell resolve. So while I totally understand your point about being win-more, I also see her as utility for another players Time Warp, Demonic Tutor, counterspell, etc.
PI might try Rhystic Deluge out too, because that's one that I've been leaning towards for a while.
I'm not a fan of Rystic Deluge in multiplayer because I find that I end up tapping myself out to tap one opponent, at which point others descend on me while I am vulnerable. In non-multi-player I am more inclined to put it in.
correct me if I'm wrong, but did this just recently get primer status? If so, congrats! If not, I need to pay attention more. Anyways love the deck, wish I could add any ideas to it but it looks pretty finely tuned and alot of fun.
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Sorry about any spelling mistakes, I'm typing on a phone most of the time.
The only reason I mentioned her was because just the other night a player had her and Patron and was dumping land into play. But she was useful when a player tried to counter one of my spells and the Uyo player copied the counterspell in order to let my spell resolve. So while I totally understand your point about being win-more, I also see her as utility for another players Time Warp, Demonic Tutor, counterspell, etc.
And honestly, Uyo is a pretty powerful effect, so if she were, say, a 2/2 for 4 instead of a 4/4 for 6, she'd probably make the list due exactly to her power potential. But as it is, she's not a practical option until you have 8 mana, and even then, you need a powerful spell AND very likely your general to abuse her. Compare her to another 6-drop like Tomorrow which generates value even without your general, does it without further resource investment, and goes broken with many of the same cards that Uyo does.
Love the thread, ExpiredRascals. As soon as I saw Flooded Shoreline I was reminded of my old 60-card, kitchen table Azusa-Moonfolk deck.
One card that was a real all-star in that deck was Horn of Greed. I notice no mention of it here.
The problem with Horn of Greed is that it only triggers off of lands that you play normally. This means that you generate no triggers off of Patron putting lands into play. As such, the closest similar card that you can run is Seer's Sundial — a card that's been okay for me, but panned by others such as Weebo.
I'm not a fan of Rystic Deluge in multiplayer because I find that I end up tapping myself out to tap one opponent, at which point others descend on me while I am vulnerable. In non-multi-player I am more inclined to put it in.
The other problem to consider is that when you're actually vulnerable to creatures, you're going to likely have more colourless mana than blue mana, so Rhystic Deluge hits your manabase at the choke point.
correct me if I'm wrong, but did this just recently get primer status? If so, congrats! If not, I need to pay attention more. Anyways love the deck, wish I could add any ideas to it but it looks pretty finely tuned and alot of fun.
Nah, you're on top of things, I only recieved Primer status today. Thanks for the compliments.
I really recommend trying the deck out. It's been my primary deck for quite some time and one that I've not tired of even after years of play.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Sad to see no mention of hedron crab anywhere. Its one of my favorite wincons inpatron of the moon. I've rite kicked the little crab with uyo copies enough times that each land milled 333 cards of decks. While I know that it doesnt hold well against eldrazis it still is a hilarious wincon to use (much to my friends crying)
Sad to see no mention of hedron crab anywhere. Its one of my favorite wincons inpatron of the moon. I've rite kicked the little crab with uyo copies enough times that each land milled 333 cards of decks. While I know that it doesnt hold well against eldrazis it still is a hilarious wincon to use (much to my friends crying)
Also grats on primer status
I view Hedron Crap as about equivalent to Ovinomancer for this deck. It's cute, but not good.
Let me elaborate: Hedron Crab outright kills your opponent when you can generate a rapid series of land drops. This arises when you either are infinite (and thus were already winning), were drawing a ****-ton of cards (and thus were already winning), have a non-infinite loop such as Meloku + Patron (which generates enough advantage that again, you're probably already winning), or were making a game-sealing play (Like Sunder — which means you're already winning).
If Hedron Crab doesn't outright kill your opponent, there are three scenarios:
1. It was a dead draw.
2. The opponent had an eldrazi and you just generated a massive amount of threat with no advantage.
3. You couldn't do combo-levels of milling and thus made swaths of your opponent's deck readily available for their recursion — You probably lose.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is part of the tribe. I know most of the spells in this list are of high-cost but it shouldn't be to hard to flip with the ramp present. Worth considering?
Note that my only experience with Erayo was in an Edric deck filled with 1-drops, so it routinely flipped the turn it was played, so my view of it may be biased.
I think that Beacon is just outright subpar. It's not terrible if you draw your deck, since you can then just loop it ad infinitum, but in general, it's a severely overcosted time warp that is also less recurrable (one card in the deck can fetch beacon after it's shuffled in, but if you're fetching beacon with it, why aren't you fetching time stretch to just win the game outright?). Time Warp/Temporal Mastery/Capture of Jingzhou (none of which I even run), provide that same effect at a dramatically reduced cost and can be recurred by archaeomancer/mnemonic wall. Regardless, I'm not thrilled with any of the single turn options. They feel pretty meh if they don't let us win the game on the spot, and I'd rather lean on finding that one copy of time stretch when I want that sort of effect to close out the game than use extra deck slots on a lesser effect.
As for cryptic command, that one is to taste. I'm not thrilled by needing to dedicate three coloured mana to keeping it up, since that's a tall order in the early game when more of our mana is from artifacts than lands, and four mana is a lot for a reactive counterspell (compare it to Desertion, which I'm on the cusp of dropping).
Admittedly, this isn't a totally fair comparison due to Command's overwhelming versatility, but at that point we're left to determine its potential based on meta and playstyle. It's not a card that I feel I've really wanted at all so far, but I'll start paying attention to whether it would be worth it my games. I'll be looking at Desertion each time I draw it and think "Would I rather this be a Cryptic Command? Or would I rather have a cheaper counterspell?".
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is part of the tribe. I know most of the spells in this list are of high-cost but it shouldn't be to hard to flip with the ramp present. Worth considering?
Note that my only experience with Erayo was in an Edric deck filled with 1-drops, so it routinely flipped the turn it was played, so my view of it may be biased.
Love the list though, appreciate all the work.
Erayo is interesting. I have to admit, I'd never even considered her. If she were to make the deck, I don't think it would be due to her creature type — we're not a tribal deck — but I can see the potential for power there.
In your experience, was her power because you were an aggressive deck? Your pressure thus denying opponents the opportunity to play through her to remove her and address your board at the same time?
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
In your experience, was her power because you were an aggressive deck? Your pressure thus denying opponents the opportunity to play through her to remove her and address your board at the same time?
Erayo was definitely at his best in the Edric decklist. Edric demands quick, cheap spot removal and Erayo's ability often eats those 1 cmc spells as opponents attempt to get to their second spell of the turn. Once Edric starts drawing you cards the card advantage becomes too much to overcome for even three opponents. He is also great for people who are used to leaving mana open for casting on end steps.
Ultimately, after playing around with the deck, Erayo seems to play as a more midrange cast in this deck after you have landed your first big draw spell (assuming you want the flip to occur same turn). As a result, he doesn't lock down the game as in Edric but rather forces opponents into awkward turns and occasionally leads them to cast nothing on their turn in hopes of drawing a cheap spell that will allow their big play to resolve. The main problem is the hate it draws flipped or not, the game turns into archenemy.
Erayo was definitely at his best in the Edric decklist. Edric demands quick, cheap spot removal and Erayo's ability often eats those 1 cmc spells as opponents attempt to get to their second spell of the turn. Once Edric starts drawing you cards the card advantage becomes too much to overcome for even three opponents. He is also great for people who are used to leaving mana open for casting on end steps.
Ultimately, after playing around with the deck, Erayo seems to play as a more midrange cast in this deck after you have landed your first big draw spell (assuming you want the flip to occur same turn). As a result, he doesn't lock down the game as in Edric but rather forces opponents into awkward turns and occasionally leads them to cast nothing on their turn in hopes of drawing a cheap spell that will allow their big play to resolve. The main problem is the hate it draws flipped or not, the game turns into archenemy.
Yeah, I think I agree with your analysis. When you drop Erayo, you need to be gunning for the win, because everyone will now be gunning for you. I don't think it quite fits with this deck's typical gameplay, sadly.
hi there,
very interesting deck you got there! i just looked through it and still have to understand all the little interactions.
one question though: is there any particular reason why you don't run Scrying Sheets?
sure, it is not that much, but sometimes a little extra?
I actually have tested it, but the problem with the card is that it inflates your non-island count for too small and too fringe of gains. You need to be extremely judicious with your non-basics in this deck, since you're already producing a ton of colourless mana with artifacts and a lot of your actions need islands specifically (Flow of Ideas, Gush, Thwart, Flooded Shoreline, Gauntlet of Power, and to a large extent Caged Sun). It's really easy to let that non-basic count creep up to the detriment of the core strengths of the deck.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
One week ago i started playtesting this deck (i really like strange generals like Patron!) and i have to say that this deck is really powerful but also entertaining. It's surprising how many times i won only because people undervalue Patron and the deck in general. The only changes i've made are:
- mana breach + cyclonic rift
- overwhelming intellect + curse of the swine
This changes are made because we really lack removals and in particular mass removals... When you have a bad start and people are starting crowding the board with creatures, you really hope to draw one of those two cards (if you don't have a tutor!) if you want to stay in the game longer!
I've also found that overwhelming intellect is too mana intensive for its effect and mana breach is useless if you find it in your starting hand and you have only one mana rock.
My meta is composed by: 2 Derevi - 1 Oloro - 1 Jhoira - 1 Marath - 1 Memnarch and 1 Mimeoplasm.
Sorry if i've made some errors but my english isn't perfect
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Edh Decks: Maelstrom Wanderer | Ephara, God of the Polis | Surrak Dragonclaw
Have you tried out Adventuring Gear out in your deck as a finisher? Also, my friend runs a Patron deck and I have seen High Tide used to be a cheap and effective one-shot mana doubler, what are your thoughts on the card?
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My List of Current Decks: -Modern- WMartyrProcB BBurnR -Commander-
One week ago i started playtesting this deck (i really like strange generals like Patron!) and i have to say that this deck is really powerful but also entertaining. It's surprising how many times i won only because people undervalue Patron and the deck in general. The only changes i've made are:
- mana breach + cyclonic rift
- overwhelming intellect + curse of the swine
This changes are made because we really lack removals and in particular mass removals... When you have a bad start and people are starting crowding the board with creatures, you really hope to draw one of those two cards (if you don't have a tutor!) if you want to stay in the game longer!
I've also found that overwhelming intellect is too mana intensive for its effect and mana breach is useless if you find it in your starting hand and you have only one mana rock.
My meta is composed by: 2 Derevi - 1 Oloro - 1 Jhoira - 1 Marath - 1 Memnarch and 1 Mimeoplasm.
Sorry if i've made some errors but my english isn't perfect
Mana Breach for Cyclonic Rift is a change I can totally get behind. Mana Breach is such a bipolar card — when it's good, it's utterly devastating, and when it's bad, it's utterly terrible — and it makes sense to favour something more consistent like cyclonic rift, in fact I may go that same route myself.
I'm not as sure on cutting the Overwhelming Intellect, but it has the potential to be very meta-dependent, so I can understand it. I will say though that you don't want to drop it for a non-draw spell. You're going to be running a bit light on draw power without the intellect to shore you up.
Have you tried out Adventuring Gear out in your deck as a finisher? Also, my friend runs a Patron deck and I have seen High Tide used to be a cheap and effective one-shot mana doubler, what are your thoughts on the card?
We typically aren't a beatdown deck, so adventuring gear is going to be dead until the late game when we either draw a lot of cards or establish a loop. Either way, if we reach such a point in the game, we're winning anyway and probably don't need the adventuring gear. Essentially, it falls to a lot of the same problems as hedron crab.
High Tide is one to taste. I'm not as interested in ritual-like effects in this deck. I'd rather just have my hard doublers and use them instead. It gives us a little less explosive power for those one-turn openings that sometimes happen, but in general I think we're better off playing to consistent mana development. That being said, it's an extraordinarily powerful card and I understand those who choose to run it.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I've actually had a bit of a decline in EDH. The increased amount of testing and traveling I've been doing for competitive play has dropped the amount of time I've had for casual play.
That said, it's not been a total dry spell. I'm actually going back and re-evaluating a moonfolk that I don't feel I gave a proper chance the first time around.
Soratami Mirror-Mage popped back on my radar when poking around for options for someone building their own Patron deck on the fly. It's got the downside that 3 mana and 3 lands is pretty steep as a cost, but if you stick Patron, it may be able to function as a second [worse] Flooded Shoreline, and that effect is very powerful, especially when it can be used to protect itself (and when you can dump colourless mana into its activation).
Past that, there's not much new to the deck. BNG was a tremendously lackluster set for tuned blue EDH lists, with only Vortex Elemental likely to even make a blip on people's radars (and those people are likely not us). I suppose Astral Cornucopia is an upgrade to Darksteel Ingot, but as I've said before, 3CMC rocks that produce only one mana are pretty damn awkward, so upgrading a card without addressing the actual problem is really not much of an endorsement.
Lastly, I'm doing an audit of my list to see how much it would take to shift to a more hateful build with Back to Basics, Quicksilver Fountain, and Torpor Orb. I don't necessarily think it will be better, because each of those cards (except Fountain) brings with it an opportunity cost, but I'm intrigued enough to fool around to see what it would look like.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I think I like cournocopia as while at worst it is a 3 mana for a single color, we have ways of bouncing it and dropping it with a ton of counters if we cant get a win that turn is almost as good as gold for winning the next turn.
I love Patron in my mono-blue, and that's just as one of the 99. I'd be instantly on the defensive if I saw a deck with it as the General.
Thoughts:
Land Equilibrium - not sure how much synergy this has with the rest of your deck, but it seems brutal after a Sunder Recurring Insight - this has easily been my most efficient draw spell, netting me 10-12 cards for 6 mana Leyline of Anticipation - flash is good Jushi Apprentice - shouldn't be hard to trigger in this, and then you have mass draw on a stick Descendant of Soramaro - almost an auto-include for me in any blue deck, particularly one as draw heavy as this Proteus Staff - even closer to a blue auto-include, even without a ton of token generation - the general rattle-snakiness alone is super relevant, and upgrading an early creature is always good
I love Patron in my mono-blue, and that's just as one of the 99. I'd be instantly on the defensive if I saw a deck with it as the General.
Thoughts:
Land Equilibrium - not sure how much synergy this has with the rest of your deck, but it seems brutal after a Sunder Recurring Insight - this has easily been my most efficient draw spell, netting me 10-12 cards for 6 mana Leyline of Anticipation - flash is good Jushi Apprentice - shouldn't be hard to trigger in this, and then you have mass draw on a stick Descendant of Soramaro - almost an auto-include for me in any blue deck, particularly one as draw heavy as this Proteus Staff - even closer to a blue auto-include, even without a ton of token generation - the general rattle-snakiness alone is super relevant, and upgrading an early creature is always good
Land Equilibrium to me feels a little win-more. Patron Stax builds aside, when you would want this, you need to already have stuck Patron AND a profitable bounce engine to keep your manabase fluid. If that's the case, you're either late in the game where they have lands already, or you're already winning anyway (because seriously, when are you ever losing if Patron successfully sticks?).
Recurring Insight is a totally defensible inclusion. If your meta has enough players with draw fetishes, I think it's a great choice. In mine however, I cannot rely enough on players keeping hand sizes up (due to decks that play out their hands as well as decks that like to decimate yours).
Leyline of Anticipation is also pretty sweet. I've not been able to find a slot for it, but I can totally respect the power there.
Jushi Apprentice is just too fragile. If you're playing a creature in this deck, the upside needs to be huge, and most of the time, you want it to be able to kick in without needing to lose summoning sickness. The Jayemdae Tome+ creature just doesn't do enough.
Descendant of Soramaro feels awkward for me. The effect is incredibly powerful under the right circumstances, but I think in general, I'd just rather pack more large draw than run him. Why pay mana to filter your draws with a 4-drop when you can just draw cards outright?
Proteus Staff is amazing. If your meta has enough pesky generals to demand being tucked, I can totally support running this thing. As it is, I don't feel its need in my meta though.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I have made a similar version of the deck and oh my is it fun.
This is actually the first deck I have played that was mono-blue.
Also, memory jar is better in this deck than any other deck I have played.
Yeah, when you're able to utilize the full 7, it's truly insane. The extra interaction with Sunder and Tomorrow (if you run them) is just icing on the cake.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Quote from votan »
:ER:, you suck as a hero
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One card that was a real all-star in that deck was Horn of Greed. I notice no mention of it here.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I'm not a fan of Rystic Deluge in multiplayer because I find that I end up tapping myself out to tap one opponent, at which point others descend on me while I am vulnerable. In non-multi-player I am more inclined to put it in.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
And honestly, Uyo is a pretty powerful effect, so if she were, say, a 2/2 for 4 instead of a 4/4 for 6, she'd probably make the list due exactly to her power potential. But as it is, she's not a practical option until you have 8 mana, and even then, you need a powerful spell AND very likely your general to abuse her. Compare her to another 6-drop like Tomorrow which generates value even without your general, does it without further resource investment, and goes broken with many of the same cards that Uyo does.
The problem with Horn of Greed is that it only triggers off of lands that you play normally. This means that you generate no triggers off of Patron putting lands into play. As such, the closest similar card that you can run is Seer's Sundial — a card that's been okay for me, but panned by others such as Weebo.
The other problem to consider is that when you're actually vulnerable to creatures, you're going to likely have more colourless mana than blue mana, so Rhystic Deluge hits your manabase at the choke point.
Nah, you're on top of things, I only recieved Primer status today. Thanks for the compliments.
I really recommend trying the deck out. It's been my primary deck for quite some time and one that I've not tired of even after years of play.
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Also grats on primer status
EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
I view Hedron Crap as about equivalent to Ovinomancer for this deck. It's cute, but not good.
Let me elaborate:
Hedron Crab outright kills your opponent when you can generate a rapid series of land drops. This arises when you either are infinite (and thus were already winning), were drawing a ****-ton of cards (and thus were already winning), have a non-infinite loop such as Meloku + Patron (which generates enough advantage that again, you're probably already winning), or were making a game-sealing play (Like Sunder — which means you're already winning).
If Hedron Crab doesn't outright kill your opponent, there are three scenarios:
1. It was a dead draw.
2. The opponent had an eldrazi and you just generated a massive amount of threat with no advantage.
3. You couldn't do combo-levels of milling and thus made swaths of your opponent's deck readily available for their recursion — You probably lose.
It seems to me that it's win-more at best.
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Note that my only experience with Erayo was in an Edric deck filled with 1-drops, so it routinely flipped the turn it was played, so my view of it may be biased.
Love the list though, appreciate all the work.
I think that Beacon is just outright subpar. It's not terrible if you draw your deck, since you can then just loop it ad infinitum, but in general, it's a severely overcosted time warp that is also less recurrable (one card in the deck can fetch beacon after it's shuffled in, but if you're fetching beacon with it, why aren't you fetching time stretch to just win the game outright?). Time Warp/Temporal Mastery/Capture of Jingzhou (none of which I even run), provide that same effect at a dramatically reduced cost and can be recurred by archaeomancer/mnemonic wall. Regardless, I'm not thrilled with any of the single turn options. They feel pretty meh if they don't let us win the game on the spot, and I'd rather lean on finding that one copy of time stretch when I want that sort of effect to close out the game than use extra deck slots on a lesser effect.
As for cryptic command, that one is to taste. I'm not thrilled by needing to dedicate three coloured mana to keeping it up, since that's a tall order in the early game when more of our mana is from artifacts than lands, and four mana is a lot for a reactive counterspell (compare it to Desertion, which I'm on the cusp of dropping).
Admittedly, this isn't a totally fair comparison due to Command's overwhelming versatility, but at that point we're left to determine its potential based on meta and playstyle. It's not a card that I feel I've really wanted at all so far, but I'll start paying attention to whether it would be worth it my games. I'll be looking at Desertion each time I draw it and think "Would I rather this be a Cryptic Command? Or would I rather have a cheaper counterspell?".
Erayo is interesting. I have to admit, I'd never even considered her. If she were to make the deck, I don't think it would be due to her creature type — we're not a tribal deck — but I can see the potential for power there.
In your experience, was her power because you were an aggressive deck? Your pressure thus denying opponents the opportunity to play through her to remove her and address your board at the same time?
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Erayo was definitely at his best in the Edric decklist. Edric demands quick, cheap spot removal and Erayo's ability often eats those 1 cmc spells as opponents attempt to get to their second spell of the turn. Once Edric starts drawing you cards the card advantage becomes too much to overcome for even three opponents. He is also great for people who are used to leaving mana open for casting on end steps.
Ultimately, after playing around with the deck, Erayo seems to play as a more midrange cast in this deck after you have landed your first big draw spell (assuming you want the flip to occur same turn). As a result, he doesn't lock down the game as in Edric but rather forces opponents into awkward turns and occasionally leads them to cast nothing on their turn in hopes of drawing a cheap spell that will allow their big play to resolve. The main problem is the hate it draws flipped or not, the game turns into archenemy.
Yeah, I think I agree with your analysis. When you drop Erayo, you need to be gunning for the win, because everyone will now be gunning for you. I don't think it quite fits with this deck's typical gameplay, sadly.
I actually have tested it, but the problem with the card is that it inflates your non-island count for too small and too fringe of gains. You need to be extremely judicious with your non-basics in this deck, since you're already producing a ton of colourless mana with artifacts and a lot of your actions need islands specifically (Flow of Ideas, Gush, Thwart, Flooded Shoreline, Gauntlet of Power, and to a large extent Caged Sun). It's really easy to let that non-basic count creep up to the detriment of the core strengths of the deck.
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- mana breach + cyclonic rift
- overwhelming intellect + curse of the swine
This changes are made because we really lack removals and in particular mass removals... When you have a bad start and people are starting crowding the board with creatures, you really hope to draw one of those two cards (if you don't have a tutor!) if you want to stay in the game longer!
I've also found that overwhelming intellect is too mana intensive for its effect and mana breach is useless if you find it in your starting hand and you have only one mana rock.
My meta is composed by: 2 Derevi - 1 Oloro - 1 Jhoira - 1 Marath - 1 Memnarch and 1 Mimeoplasm.
Sorry if i've made some errors but my english isn't perfect
-Modern-
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-Commander-
Mana Breach for Cyclonic Rift is a change I can totally get behind. Mana Breach is such a bipolar card — when it's good, it's utterly devastating, and when it's bad, it's utterly terrible — and it makes sense to favour something more consistent like cyclonic rift, in fact I may go that same route myself.
I'm not as sure on cutting the Overwhelming Intellect, but it has the potential to be very meta-dependent, so I can understand it. I will say though that you don't want to drop it for a non-draw spell. You're going to be running a bit light on draw power without the intellect to shore you up.
We typically aren't a beatdown deck, so adventuring gear is going to be dead until the late game when we either draw a lot of cards or establish a loop. Either way, if we reach such a point in the game, we're winning anyway and probably don't need the adventuring gear. Essentially, it falls to a lot of the same problems as hedron crab.
High Tide is one to taste. I'm not as interested in ritual-like effects in this deck. I'd rather just have my hard doublers and use them instead. It gives us a little less explosive power for those one-turn openings that sometimes happen, but in general I think we're better off playing to consistent mana development. That being said, it's an extraordinarily powerful card and I understand those who choose to run it.
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540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThat said, it's not been a total dry spell. I'm actually going back and re-evaluating a moonfolk that I don't feel I gave a proper chance the first time around.
Soratami Mirror-Mage popped back on my radar when poking around for options for someone building their own Patron deck on the fly. It's got the downside that 3 mana and 3 lands is pretty steep as a cost, but if you stick Patron, it may be able to function as a second [worse] Flooded Shoreline, and that effect is very powerful, especially when it can be used to protect itself (and when you can dump colourless mana into its activation).
Past that, there's not much new to the deck. BNG was a tremendously lackluster set for tuned blue EDH lists, with only Vortex Elemental likely to even make a blip on people's radars (and those people are likely not us). I suppose Astral Cornucopia is an upgrade to Darksteel Ingot, but as I've said before, 3CMC rocks that produce only one mana are pretty damn awkward, so upgrading a card without addressing the actual problem is really not much of an endorsement.
Lastly, I'm doing an audit of my list to see how much it would take to shift to a more hateful build with Back to Basics, Quicksilver Fountain, and Torpor Orb. I don't necessarily think it will be better, because each of those cards (except Fountain) brings with it an opportunity cost, but I'm intrigued enough to fool around to see what it would look like.
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540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicy540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThoughts:
Land Equilibrium - not sure how much synergy this has with the rest of your deck, but it seems brutal after a Sunder
Recurring Insight - this has easily been my most efficient draw spell, netting me 10-12 cards for 6 mana
Leyline of Anticipation - flash is good
Jushi Apprentice - shouldn't be hard to trigger in this, and then you have mass draw on a stick
Descendant of Soramaro - almost an auto-include for me in any blue deck, particularly one as draw heavy as this
Proteus Staff - even closer to a blue auto-include, even without a ton of token generation - the general rattle-snakiness alone is super relevant, and upgrading an early creature is always good
Land Equilibrium to me feels a little win-more. Patron Stax builds aside, when you would want this, you need to already have stuck Patron AND a profitable bounce engine to keep your manabase fluid. If that's the case, you're either late in the game where they have lands already, or you're already winning anyway (because seriously, when are you ever losing if Patron successfully sticks?).
Recurring Insight is a totally defensible inclusion. If your meta has enough players with draw fetishes, I think it's a great choice. In mine however, I cannot rely enough on players keeping hand sizes up (due to decks that play out their hands as well as decks that like to decimate yours).
Leyline of Anticipation is also pretty sweet. I've not been able to find a slot for it, but I can totally respect the power there.
Jushi Apprentice is just too fragile. If you're playing a creature in this deck, the upside needs to be huge, and most of the time, you want it to be able to kick in without needing to lose summoning sickness. The Jayemdae Tome+ creature just doesn't do enough.
Descendant of Soramaro feels awkward for me. The effect is incredibly powerful under the right circumstances, but I think in general, I'd just rather pack more large draw than run him. Why pay mana to filter your draws with a 4-drop when you can just draw cards outright?
Proteus Staff is amazing. If your meta has enough pesky generals to demand being tucked, I can totally support running this thing. As it is, I don't feel its need in my meta though.
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Won pretty hard, and it was awesome. Sunder + Memory Jar for the win. Thanks for the lulz man.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
This is actually the first deck I have played that was mono-blue.
Also, memory jar is better in this deck than any other deck I have played.
Yeah, when you're able to utilize the full 7, it's truly insane. The extra interaction with Sunder and Tomorrow (if you run them) is just icing on the cake.
In what ways does your list differ?
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