With Dack Fayden spoiled, does he have a place in the deck?
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Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Lol, now that Dack Fayden has finally been spoiled (in its entirety), of course he has a place in this deck. Not only does he give any player a free Faithless Looting (great if you have the enchantments that give pain for wheeling in play), but he steals manarocks (or any other artifact) and with his emblem obtained, just think about how brutal cards like Curse of the Swine become. Not only do you exile each creature, but you get the 2/2 Boar tokens. Too epic!
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Instead of prosperity, have you tried minds aglow? It is nearly the same, except you pay the mana when it resolves. If it gets countered, then all you've used is one blue mana. Which you can play more spells that turn. With prosperity, if it gets countered, then you've lost all that mana. Plus minds aglow can create some "political tension" between the other players...
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Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Played my Nekusar (similar to OP build, minus the money cards) recently in a few games (6man FFA and 3way 2HG). I was trying out Master of the Feast. He's not a bad card. He has more of an impact with pain effects in play. That 5 flying damage is really nice though. I may keep him in. I also like Dictate of Kruphex a bit more. With me not running the "extra turns" package, my Forks aren't as impactful. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE to fork my own wheels but they tend to sit in my hand more often than not.
Also, in one game someone decided to drop Eye of the Storm into play. That card is stupid when played against my build. Whispering Madness, Brainstorm, and Ponder were put on there first in that order. At one point we were drawing 15 cards per Madness.
Minds Aglow actually is actually better than Prosperity for the simple fact that it's only U if it gets countered - as you pointed out. Eye of the Storm seems pretty broken. And it only costs U more than Hive Mind.
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Right, I should have clarified. Eye of the storm is fun when played against us. I really wouldn't play it in the 99 for sure. You really have to think about the spells you cast. But if someone thinks that it would hurt us, I say try to break it.
I think that everyone can agree that the build of your deck is relative to your meta. This is the list that I am running at the moment. When you look at it keep in mind that my playgroup doesn't allow infinite combos (so theMind over Matter and Temple Bell combo is excluded). We only allow FIVE activiaionns of a permanent per turn.
The deck is built to keep the pace with a lot of green ramp decks and artifact heavy decks, hence I play 10 mana rocks. While also allowing me to keep pace they also regularly provide me with turn three Nekusar (land, sol ring/mana vault/mana crypt, talisman or signet on turn 1). Furthermore mana rocks are Tezzeret the Seeker's best friends.
The deck is built around wheeling and I dont play Howling Mine effects simply because in my testing I have found that unless you have many pain sources out Howling Mine effects seem to arm my opponents with answers, and provide very little advantage to myself.
You also may notice that my deck is not creature heavy. Consequently I play quite a few bounce and wrath effects. Players in my meta know that I use them for self preservation and that I dont wrath where I dont see a threat so this generally works in my favour, however it did take me a while to find that balance.
I do play a small premission package to protect my board (they are also there for political play if I need an ally).
Evacuation has also proven to be a great alternate board wips due to its instant speed. Followed by a wheel it is quite funny.
I honestly believe that you can not have eough wheels, however with the exception of Jace's Archivist I don't believe that it is worth having any creature wheels as they are too easily interrupted with a bit of spot removal.
I used to play Megrim and Liliana's Caress, however there are not enough discard wheel so I cut them.
It is important not to play combo pieces without being able to go off, as it just gives your intentions away to your opponents.
One thing that I noticed about this deck; permission spells can be troublesome as you tend to wheel away a good counter and not draw into another. Hence if you are thinking about counter spell inclusion you must run quite a few. I run five at the moment including Misdirection, however I have contemplated lifting that and including Swansong and counterspell. Alternatively I could include Leyline of Anticipation to get instant access to Yawgmoth's Will and Past in Flames.
Obviously my build wont suit all, but I thought I'd throw it up for conversation purposes.
Feel free to critique it as much as you like,or don't. However, I would love some feedback.
I think that everyone can agree that the build of your deck is relative to your meta. This is the list that I am running at the moment. When you look at it keep in mind that my playgroup doesn't allow infinite combos (so theMind over Matter and Temple Bell combo is excluded). We only allow FIVE activiaionns of a permanent per turn.
The deck is built to keep the pace with a lot of green ramp decks and artifact heavy decks, hence I play 10 mana rocks. While also allowing me to keep pace they also regularly provide me with turn three Nekusar (land, sol ring/mana vault/mana crypt, talisman or signet on turn 1). Furthermore mana rocks are Tezzeret the Seeker's best friends.
The deck is built around wheeling and I dont play Howling Mine effects simply because in my testing I have found that unless you have many pain sources out Howling Mine effects seem to arm my opponents with answers, and provide very little advantage to myself.
You also may notice that my deck is not creature heavy. Consequently I play quite a few bounce and wrath effects. Players in my meta know that I use them for self preservation and that I dont wrath where I dont see a threat so this generally works in my favour, however it did take me a while to find that balance.
I do play a small premission package to protect my board (they are also there for political play if I need an ally).
Evacuation has also proven to be a great alternate board wips due to its instant speed. Followed by a wheel it is quite funny.
I honestly believe that you can not have eough wheels, however with the exception of Jace's Archivist I don't believe that it is worth having any creature wheels as they are too easily interrupted with a bit of spot removal.
I used to play Megrim and Liliana's Caress, however there are not enough discard wheel so I cut them.
It is important not to play combo pieces without being able to go off, as it just gives your intentions away to your opponents.
One thing that I noticed about this deck; permission spells can be troublesome as you tend to wheel away a good counter and not draw into another. Hence if you are thinking about counter spell inclusion you must run quite a few. I run five at the moment including Misdirection, however I have contemplated lifting that and including Swansong and counterspell. Alternatively I could include Leyline of Anticipation to get instant access to Yawgmoth's Will and Past in Flames.
Obviously my build wont suit all, but I thought I'd throw it up for conversation purposes.
Feel free to critique it as much as you like,or don't. However, I would love some feedback.
First off, please use deck tags when you post a deck. It makes the list MUCH easier to read.
Omitting Megrim and Liliana's Caress I feel is a big mistake. With even one on the field and a draw pain effect, a single wheel can cause 21 points of damage to each opponent (7*2=14 from discard, plus 7 from drawing). Do it again, and they're all dead. This means you could win very early in the game without ever casting Nekusar.
I don't feel you play enough wizards to effectively abuse Azami, Lady of Scrolls. You'll probably get a lot more mileage out of Consecrated Sphinx. On that note, you're playing a little dangerously by having Notion Thief without a way to kill it at instant speed because an opposing Consecrated Sphinx will deck you. Thief is not a "may" trigger, so your opponent can opt to draw off their Sphinx which forces you to draw, then they choose to draw off your draw which forces you to draw more, and so on until they deck you.
Exactly at what I was gonna get to. Megrim and Liliana's Caress in a wheel deck is a must have. No question about it. Even more so if you wheel after an overloaded Cyclonic Rift. With Megrim in play, I've won so many games with Cyclonic Rift followed by a wheel that it's ridiculous. That makes Megrim and Liliana's Caress immediate targets to removal or makes it harder to choose what to remove. People love drawing cards. But burn them for discard and there's no pros to that.
EDIT:
Made some substantial changes to my current build. Will eventually post with some findings (including a decklist).
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I can see the argument for the added pain in Liliana's Caress and Megrim. The cyclonic rift argument is a good one.
Also an insta win with notion thief is also a good idea, however I am not keen on Laboratory Maniac as on his own he is junk. What other suggestions do you have? I don't want to cut Notion Thief as it is too powerful a synergy. I would rather find a different way to abuse him.
I will see where I can find room for the two discard-pain cards again and see if I can utilise them better.
What is everybodies stance on wrath vs pillow forting? I have found wraths to be more useful, especially since my list has three flashback effects and I want to gain maximum value out of each card and once a pillow fort is destroyed it tends to stay that way unless I Time Spiral and tutor.
I have abandoned fork effects as they don't protect my board against ETBs, spot removal or wraths. I can see their value in regards to countering permission spells, providing additional wheels and occasionally stealing a tutor, which is very tempting, but they seem a little win more and not versatile enough to protect my board state.
Lastly, What strategies would you recomend against a Sharuum deck that insists on Tangle Wire, Winter Orb and Ward of Bones tacitcs complemented with a nasty stax element? I have conssidered Shattering Pulse and Leyline of the Void? Has any one had any success with these cards?
Thanks for the feedback and sorry about the deck posting strategy. I am new to this forum.
No problem; here's some feedback (point by point):
It's fine if you've yet to find some use for Megrim and Liliana's Caress. Just know that you should.
Now, my biggest qualm:
If you're running Notion Thief yet want to cut Laboratory Maniac then I honestly have no idea what you want Notion Thief for. Say you cast a wheel like Windfall. Not only do your opponents not get burned by drawing a new hand (which should be the purpose of running Nekusar, the Mindrazer) but you're gonna deck yourself. If you're in a 4-way and Windfall has each player draw - say, 8 cards, that means that you'd be drawing 32 cards thanks to Notion Thief. And you've just deprived your opponents 8 x ? damage (where ? is the amount of pain per draw cards in play) and also the possibility of pain per discard. Two more wheels like that and you've just decked yourself. So you might as well be playing Laboratory Maniac. If you're intent on wanting to draw thanks to your opponents drawing, Consecrated Sphinx is much better than Notion Thief. Albeit it much more expensive to cast, but that much more worth it. You draw 2 cards per each card drawn (so in the following example you'd be drawing a whopping 56 cards and your opponents suffer the burn for it. That leaves to say if you play this kind of wheel (Whispering Madness does the trick as well) then by bouncing the board to your opponents' hands before wheeling (with cards like Sunder, Evacuation, Cyclonic Rift, Hurkyl's Recall, etc.) means some serious card draw for you and damage for opponents. Plus the fact that you just erased a large part of their battlefield.
I find wraths to be much better than pillowforting. However, I use wraths as a last alternative. I'd prefer bouncing. You're gonna send them to the graveyard anyways with a wheel. And why only destroy all creatures when you can destroy all non-land permanents as well? And yeah, you don't need forks - I don't use them either. But I steer clear from flashback effects as well. I recycle a lot of my cards (Elixir of Immortality, Psychic Spiral, Feldon's Cane, Thran Foundry are some options) and you can't recover from the exiled zone with Grixis colors.
Well, I'll assume that the Sharuum the Hedgemon query is a meta call. I got just the medicine for you and it ain't necessarily more cowbell. You gotta overload a Cyclonic Rift with enough mana left over for a wheel. Or, in this case, maybe you'd prefer Hurkyl's Recall. In your case, Hurkyl's Recall is your answer because you're getting beaten down by a stax/tax deck powered by artifacts (oh, and Builder's Bane is much better than Shattering Pulse). Hurkyl's Recall and a cheap wheel will cost you around 3UU which I think you should be able to manage by the time Sharuum locks the game down. Having Leyline of the Void is just icing on the cake. You just ruined their game. And on that note:
Leyline of the Void... how I love you so! I'm surprised nobody I play with scoops up after I start wheeling with this leyline in play. You have to run Leyline of the Void. Period. There is simply no reason not to. What they wheel they lose forever. In your face, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre!
EDIT:
A sidenote on facing Sharuum decks (or artifact heavy decks that stall, tax, and/or stax), remember that Dack Fayden will be released soon. He steals artifacts for free (assuming he's already on the board). So keep him into consideration. Either way, he only costs 1UR so you should be able to manage that amount of mana with a stalled board.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I agree with what Kirby says. People can play around wraths through indestructible or undying, but they can't get around a bounce + wheel. The only wrath I play is Damnation because it's effective in my play group.
I agree with what Kirby says. People can play around wraths through indestructible or undying, but they can't get around a bounce + wheel. The only wrath I play is Damnation because it's effective in my play group.
Lol, yeah, well in this case Mystic Retrieval is the exception that proves the rule ;). The only reason I don't run it is because I simply have no space for it. If I had to choose, I'd keep Psychic Spiral over it. I mill and I recover.
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You guys have solidified my thoughts of removing the forks (maybe a couple at first). The issues farKENoath has with them is the same problem I have. I may have to reconsider (or maybe add) Consecrated Sphinx. The Thief/Maniac combo is fun, but its really dangerous. And as Kirby stated, they are losing the damage from the draws I'm taking away. The thief is awesome in that he is just pure gas. Sphinx makes sure they still take damage from their draws. I only run Yawgmoth's Will and Snapcaster Mage as my "flashback" mechanics. Though, I tend to use Mage more than the Will. I'm not fond of the exile clause unless it will win me the game. Yawg's Will just get scary with wheels as everything I discard gets exiled. OMG Leyline of the Void. I've not read that card correctly before. Seems like a really strong include. I have Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in here for the same reason that Elixir of Immortality is in here. I've cast Kozi before and he is a house when he can get you 4 cards of more gas. Usually he is just used to shuffle my grave into my library. He is fairly easy to control, but he can be "accidently" tossed into the grave when you chain your wheels. Which can be both good and bad.
My playgroup hates Leyline of the Void so much that I can pretty much get away with playing anything else 'cause they're saving all removal and counterspells for Leyline of the Void. It's such a brutal card that it even pains your opponents without even being in play. It's psychologically damaging. I've know to have Leyline of the Void in my opening hand along with a land that gives R, Sol Ring, and Windfall. I almost crapped myself. Even I got scared of what would eventually unfold:
Turn 0: Leyline of the Void
Turn 1: Land to Sol Ring
Turn 2: Windfall
I just exiled an average of 5 cards from each of my opponents hands by turn 2. And important cards 'cause the most important hand in EDH is the starting hand. Oh, and drew a new hand as well. Leyline of the Void is hands down the greatest card ever printed for Nekusar, the Mindrazer. He might as well just have been born from the leyline.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Some excellent suggestions.
Yeah I feel justified in my fork removal.
Cons sphynx does seem like a good fit over notion thief, The reason I was keen on the thief was because of its flash ability and a low cmc usually means I can crack out a wheel on the same turn. Preventing the pain sucks and I had initially removed notion thief on that premise alone, but I have found that the CA is usually enough to win the game and I usually draw a bounce or wrath to get notion thief off the table. Ill try Cons Sphinx next week and see how I go.
I find the flashback invaluable. The ability to flash a wheel is much more efficient than shuffeling my entire GY into my library and then having to draw into tutor a or wheel. Furthermore as most of my deck consists of sorcery/instant cards the flashback mechanic is a great fit. I currently run Time Spiral for shuffle backs. My only problem with Feldon's cane and similar artifacts is that they have a single purpose and are not versitile enough. I would much rather have a wheel that puts my GY back into my library whilst also causing my opponents pain. Also, as you all know, there are so many options for the deck that I can't find room single application cards that don't advance my board state, for that reason I want to get maximum value out of each card so a card that fits multiple purposes is preferred.
Good calls on the artifact management. I really like Hurkyl's Recall and Dack Fayden looks interesting, however I wouldn't count on his ultimate. It seems that placing cards in the deck for an ultimate that nine times out of ten wont go off is a little risky. The artifact theft is awesome. He simultaneously acts as CA as well as acceleration given the number mana rocks on any given day.
In a creature heavy meta I feel like I need the wrath effects. Nekusar is seem as a bit of a pain in the ass deck and consquently (especialy if ppl get attached to their hands) he gets some hate, so I need a way to nuetralize their aggressiveness.
As to the creature destruction over permanent destruction, this deck uses a heck of a lot of artifact/enchantments that ARE the wincons. I can't afford to blow up my board aswell, furthermore that is what cards like cyclonic rift are for. I am curious to see how sunder could work. I am worried it may be too self damaging, however I can see that with forced discard and a discard pain effect it could be back breaking (or if you have managed to play omniscience or Dream Halls).
I do want to give Leyline of the Void a good crack. That alone will hurt Sharuum.
I have just realised that I ommitted my enchantments when i typed out the deck >.<
Lastly I am putting Homeward Path into the deck as I have had Nekusar stolen from me numerous times. Very annoying.
I'll repost the modified list (properly this time) when I get the chance.
I am considering Teferi, mage of zhalfir as a means to protect myself against permission and also to make sure my opponents can't abuse Dream Halls in my turn. Any thoughts?
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
Also, in one game someone decided to drop Eye of the Storm into play. That card is stupid when played against my build. Whispering Madness, Brainstorm, and Ponder were put on there first in that order. At one point we were drawing 15 cards per Madness.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
These suggestions are pretty great! I will currently switch out Prosperity for Minds Aglow
and Hive Mind for Eye of the Storm!I'm dying to get Dack Fayden and Waste Not. I don't even need to test them. They're just gonna be that good the second they're added.
edit:
After some consideration, I wouldn't switch Hive Mind for Eye of the Storm. If Eye of the Storm leaves play then all the exiled cards remained exiled. Hive Mind just works better.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
The deck is built to keep the pace with a lot of green ramp decks and artifact heavy decks, hence I play 10 mana rocks. While also allowing me to keep pace they also regularly provide me with turn three Nekusar (land, sol ring/mana vault/mana crypt, talisman or signet on turn 1). Furthermore mana rocks are Tezzeret the Seeker's best friends.
The deck is built around wheeling and I dont play Howling Mine effects simply because in my testing I have found that unless you have many pain sources out Howling Mine effects seem to arm my opponents with answers, and provide very little advantage to myself.
You also may notice that my deck is not creature heavy. Consequently I play quite a few bounce and wrath effects. Players in my meta know that I use them for self preservation and that I dont wrath where I dont see a threat so this generally works in my favour, however it did take me a while to find that balance.
I do play a small premission package to protect my board (they are also there for political play if I need an ally).
With no further ado, my list:
LANDS
ARTIFACTS
PLANESWALKERS
Tezzeret the Seeker
SORCERIES
INSTANTS
CREATURES
Insidious Dreams is a house in this deck, especially after a wheel that fills your hand. I usually cast it in an opponents end step, tutoring Time Spiral, Dream Halls, Hive Mind and another wheel, usually Winds of Change.
Evacuation has also proven to be a great alternate board wips due to its instant speed. Followed by a wheel it is quite funny.
I honestly believe that you can not have eough wheels, however with the exception of Jace's Archivist I don't believe that it is worth having any creature wheels as they are too easily interrupted with a bit of spot removal.
I used to play Megrim and Liliana's Caress, however there are not enough discard wheel so I cut them.
It is important not to play combo pieces without being able to go off, as it just gives your intentions away to your opponents.
One thing that I noticed about this deck; permission spells can be troublesome as you tend to wheel away a good counter and not draw into another. Hence if you are thinking about counter spell inclusion you must run quite a few. I run five at the moment including Misdirection, however I have contemplated lifting that and including Swansong and counterspell. Alternatively I could include Leyline of Anticipation to get instant access to Yawgmoth's Will and Past in Flames.
Obviously my build wont suit all, but I thought I'd throw it up for conversation purposes.
Feel free to critique it as much as you like,or don't. However, I would love some feedback.
First off, please use deck tags when you post a deck. It makes the list MUCH easier to read.
Omitting Megrim and Liliana's Caress I feel is a big mistake. With even one on the field and a draw pain effect, a single wheel can cause 21 points of damage to each opponent (7*2=14 from discard, plus 7 from drawing). Do it again, and they're all dead. This means you could win very early in the game without ever casting Nekusar.
I don't feel you play enough wizards to effectively abuse Azami, Lady of Scrolls. You'll probably get a lot more mileage out of Consecrated Sphinx. On that note, you're playing a little dangerously by having Notion Thief without a way to kill it at instant speed because an opposing Consecrated Sphinx will deck you. Thief is not a "may" trigger, so your opponent can opt to draw off their Sphinx which forces you to draw, then they choose to draw off your draw which forces you to draw more, and so on until they deck you.
EDIT:
Made some substantial changes to my current build. Will eventually post with some findings (including a decklist).
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Also an insta win with notion thief is also a good idea, however I am not keen on Laboratory Maniac as on his own he is junk. What other suggestions do you have? I don't want to cut Notion Thief as it is too powerful a synergy. I would rather find a different way to abuse him.
I will see where I can find room for the two discard-pain cards again and see if I can utilise them better.
What is everybodies stance on wrath vs pillow forting? I have found wraths to be more useful, especially since my list has three flashback effects and I want to gain maximum value out of each card and once a pillow fort is destroyed it tends to stay that way unless I Time Spiral and tutor.
I have abandoned fork effects as they don't protect my board against ETBs, spot removal or wraths. I can see their value in regards to countering permission spells, providing additional wheels and occasionally stealing a tutor, which is very tempting, but they seem a little win more and not versatile enough to protect my board state.
Lastly, What strategies would you recomend against a Sharuum deck that insists on Tangle Wire, Winter Orb and Ward of Bones tacitcs complemented with a nasty stax element? I have conssidered Shattering Pulse and Leyline of the Void? Has any one had any success with these cards?
Thanks for the feedback and sorry about the deck posting strategy. I am new to this forum.
It's fine if you've yet to find some use for Megrim and Liliana's Caress. Just know that you should.
Now, my biggest qualm:
If you're running Notion Thief yet want to cut Laboratory Maniac then I honestly have no idea what you want Notion Thief for. Say you cast a wheel like Windfall. Not only do your opponents not get burned by drawing a new hand (which should be the purpose of running Nekusar, the Mindrazer) but you're gonna deck yourself. If you're in a 4-way and Windfall has each player draw - say, 8 cards, that means that you'd be drawing 32 cards thanks to Notion Thief. And you've just deprived your opponents 8 x ? damage (where ? is the amount of pain per draw cards in play) and also the possibility of pain per discard. Two more wheels like that and you've just decked yourself. So you might as well be playing Laboratory Maniac. If you're intent on wanting to draw thanks to your opponents drawing, Consecrated Sphinx is much better than Notion Thief. Albeit it much more expensive to cast, but that much more worth it. You draw 2 cards per each card drawn (so in the following example you'd be drawing a whopping 56 cards and your opponents suffer the burn for it. That leaves to say if you play this kind of wheel (Whispering Madness does the trick as well) then by bouncing the board to your opponents' hands before wheeling (with cards like Sunder, Evacuation, Cyclonic Rift, Hurkyl's Recall, etc.) means some serious card draw for you and damage for opponents. Plus the fact that you just erased a large part of their battlefield.
I find wraths to be much better than pillowforting. However, I use wraths as a last alternative. I'd prefer bouncing. You're gonna send them to the graveyard anyways with a wheel. And why only destroy all creatures when you can destroy all non-land permanents as well? And yeah, you don't need forks - I don't use them either. But I steer clear from flashback effects as well. I recycle a lot of my cards (Elixir of Immortality, Psychic Spiral, Feldon's Cane, Thran Foundry are some options) and you can't recover from the exiled zone with Grixis colors.
Well, I'll assume that the Sharuum the Hedgemon query is a meta call. I got just the medicine for you and it ain't necessarily more cowbell. You gotta overload a Cyclonic Rift with enough mana left over for a wheel. Or, in this case, maybe you'd prefer Hurkyl's Recall. In your case, Hurkyl's Recall is your answer because you're getting beaten down by a stax/tax deck powered by artifacts (oh, and Builder's Bane is much better than Shattering Pulse). Hurkyl's Recall and a cheap wheel will cost you around 3UU which I think you should be able to manage by the time Sharuum locks the game down. Having Leyline of the Void is just icing on the cake. You just ruined their game. And on that note:
Leyline of the Void... how I love you so! I'm surprised nobody I play with scoops up after I start wheeling with this leyline in play. You have to run Leyline of the Void. Period. There is simply no reason not to. What they wheel they lose forever. In your face, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre!
EDIT:
A sidenote on facing Sharuum decks (or artifact heavy decks that stall, tax, and/or stax), remember that Dack Fayden will be released soon. He steals artifacts for free (assuming he's already on the board). So keep him into consideration. Either way, he only costs 1UR so you should be able to manage that amount of mana with a stalled board.
Depending on how I feel about Dack Fayden's emblem's impact, I may run this deck a little differently - and maybe this could help you get some ideas as well. Just imagine having Dack Fayden's emblem in play. Then you cast a massive Gridlock (you can also use Malicious Advice, Part Water, Reality Spasm, Wave of Indifference, Word of Binding, Aerial Formation, Blinding Flare, and Rouse the Mob to great effect as well) (thanks to Skirge Familiar - a card I love in this deck almost as much as Leyline of the Void). After you'd stolen all their nonland permanents, return their lands to their hand with Sunder. Then cast a wheel. Simply beautiful!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
The only flashback spell I run is Mystic Retrieval because it lets me re-overload Cyclonic Rift and Vandalblast, as well as acting almost like additional copies of Snapcaster Mage.
Lol, yeah, well in this case Mystic Retrieval is the exception that proves the rule ;). The only reason I don't run it is because I simply have no space for it. If I had to choose, I'd keep Psychic Spiral over it. I mill and I recover.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Turn 0: Leyline of the Void
Turn 1: Land to Sol Ring
Turn 2: Windfall
I just exiled an average of 5 cards from each of my opponents hands by turn 2. And important cards 'cause the most important hand in EDH is the starting hand. Oh, and drew a new hand as well. Leyline of the Void is hands down the greatest card ever printed for Nekusar, the Mindrazer. He might as well just have been born from the leyline.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Yeah I feel justified in my fork removal.
Cons sphynx does seem like a good fit over notion thief, The reason I was keen on the thief was because of its flash ability and a low cmc usually means I can crack out a wheel on the same turn. Preventing the pain sucks and I had initially removed notion thief on that premise alone, but I have found that the CA is usually enough to win the game and I usually draw a bounce or wrath to get notion thief off the table. Ill try Cons Sphinx next week and see how I go.
I find the flashback invaluable. The ability to flash a wheel is much more efficient than shuffeling my entire GY into my library and then having to draw into tutor a or wheel. Furthermore as most of my deck consists of sorcery/instant cards the flashback mechanic is a great fit. I currently run Time Spiral for shuffle backs. My only problem with Feldon's cane and similar artifacts is that they have a single purpose and are not versitile enough. I would much rather have a wheel that puts my GY back into my library whilst also causing my opponents pain. Also, as you all know, there are so many options for the deck that I can't find room single application cards that don't advance my board state, for that reason I want to get maximum value out of each card so a card that fits multiple purposes is preferred.
Good calls on the artifact management. I really like Hurkyl's Recall and Dack Fayden looks interesting, however I wouldn't count on his ultimate. It seems that placing cards in the deck for an ultimate that nine times out of ten wont go off is a little risky. The artifact theft is awesome. He simultaneously acts as CA as well as acceleration given the number mana rocks on any given day.
In a creature heavy meta I feel like I need the wrath effects. Nekusar is seem as a bit of a pain in the ass deck and consquently (especialy if ppl get attached to their hands) he gets some hate, so I need a way to nuetralize their aggressiveness.
As to the creature destruction over permanent destruction, this deck uses a heck of a lot of artifact/enchantments that ARE the wincons. I can't afford to blow up my board aswell, furthermore that is what cards like cyclonic rift are for. I am curious to see how sunder could work. I am worried it may be too self damaging, however I can see that with forced discard and a discard pain effect it could be back breaking (or if you have managed to play omniscience or Dream Halls).
I do want to give Leyline of the Void a good crack. That alone will hurt Sharuum.
I have just realised that I ommitted my enchantments when i typed out the deck >.<
Lastly I am putting Homeward Path into the deck as I have had Nekusar stolen from me numerous times. Very annoying.
I'll repost the modified list (properly this time) when I get the chance.
Thanks again.
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Darkwater Catacombs
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Graven Cairns
1x Homeward Path
3x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Shivan Reef
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
1x Underground Sea
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Watery Grave
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Artifact (11)
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Coalition Relic
1x Dimir Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Library of Leng
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Teferi's Puzzle Box
Sorcery (19)
1x Barter in Blood
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Curse of the Swine
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Revelation
1x Gamble
1x Mana Geyser
1x Molten Psyche
1x Past in Flames
1x Personal Tutor
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Time Spiral
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Whispering Madness
1x Windfall
1x Winds of Change
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Creature (10)
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Fate Unraveler
1x Jace's Archivist
1x Kederekt Parasite
1x Nekusar, the Mindrazer
1x Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1x Psychosis Crawler
1x Sangromancer
1x Skirge Familiar
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Bloodchief Ascension
1x Breathstealer's Crypt
1x Dream Halls
1x Forced Fruition
1x Hive Mind
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Liliana's Caress
1x Megrim
1x No Mercy
1x Omniscience
1x Phyrexian Tyranny
1x Spiteful Visions
1x Underworld Dreams
Instant (10)
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Evacuation
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Insidious Dreams
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Mana Drain
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Sunder
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Wheel and Deal
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I have removed most of the counters leaving only mana drain for its acceleration purposes and because I love that card. I replaced them with Breathstealer's crypt for more pain and Diabolic Revelation for mid game mass tutoring.
I replaced notion thief with consecrated sphinx.
liliana's caress and megrim are back.
I swapped out some of the expensive wraths like decree of pain, life's finale and overwhelming forces for bounce effects sunder and hurkyl's recall.
Omniscience is back as is Leyline of the Void.
I am considering Teferi, mage of zhalfir as a means to protect myself against permission and also to make sure my opponents can't abuse Dream Halls in my turn. Any thoughts?
Edit: He said Treachery...
Came across an interesting card today that could help out with creature swarms... smoke... Thoughts?
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix