I'd like to start off by saying that this deck was not my idea. I just happened to stumble across this list by HansonWK and thought the idea was interesting so I set out to tweak the list to my tastes. I strongly encourage you to read through his writeup as it will explain the basic concepts of the deck in far more detail than I care to do here. This is merely a place to generate discussion hopefully.
HansonWK's decklist is in the second post compliments of ISBPathfinder.
Would I like this deck?
You might like this deck if you
1. like prison strategies.
2. like counters (both kinds).
3. think it would be neat to have a Pentad Prism with over 1000 counters on it.
4. want a deck where you can play Stasis.
5. don't like it when your opponents cast spells.
You might not like this deck if
1. you feel bad when you do bad things.
This is a prison deck that is trying to prevent your opponents from casting spells. Once they cannot cast spells they've lost so you don't actually need to win because your opponents should just scoop. If they don't then you just build up a ton of mana and kill them with Blue Sun's Zenith or whatever. To make this happen we're going to lock them down with Tangle Wire, Winter Orb, and/or Stasis.
Tangle Wire - This is obviously great with Vorel because you can continually double counters and it won't ever leave play. Even better it will very quickly get to the point where every artifact, creature and land will be tapped during upkeep. This means that your opponents and you will be limited to playing instants. There are a number of ways that we're attempting to break this symmetry. Prophet of Kruphix allows some of our stuff to untap, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir prevents opponents from playing instants while allowing you to play creatures during upkeep, Capsize and Vedalken Mastermind can repeatedly bounce it at EOT, Pentad Prism doesn't need to tap to provide mana, Leyline of Anticipation lets you cast whatever, Using Vorel to double counters on Pentad Prism still lets you build up your mana fairly quickly. Tangle Wire is especially brutal with Stasis or Winter Orb in play.
Stasis - There are less things that break the symmetry of Stasis but the effect is much more potent than Tangle Wire. Frozen Aether ensures that even their meager 1 land per turn ETB tapped and is key to creating a hard lock. Vedalken Mastermind and Capsize allow you to bounce it back to your hand every turn. Pentad Prism can provide mana during a Stasis lock without the need to untap. Planeswalkers are great because they can still activate every turn. Garruk Wildspeaker can keep a lock going by untapping your land every turn and Tezzeret the Seeker can fill a similar role with artifact mana. Notably Prophet of Kruphix does not work with Stasis. Your opponents have no untap steps so you untap nothing.
Winter Orb - Similar to the cards above Worb seeks to slow the game to a glacial crawl which is just where we want the game to be. Prophet of Kruphix is excellent as is any way to bounce it back to your hand right before your turn to ensure the effect is one sided. Lands that tap for multiple mana such as Simic Growth Chamber are also nice to have as are planeswalkers to help make sure you're doing something useful even if you don't have much mana. Timing is also critical as you want to make sure your opponents are mostly tapped out when this is dropped.
So we have our game plan which is to get one of these online and prevent our opponents from playing Magic. However there are some alternate paths to victory and things to keep us busy until that happens. Endless durdling is our primary win condition however I've also had a few games were I ended up with a massive Fertilid or Spike Weaver, feel free to beat people senseless if the opportunity arises. No greater shame than being bludgeoned to death with fatties by a Stasis deck. Aside from that we probably want to build up our mana. And not die, that would be good too. So for mana we havePentad Prism, Everflowing Chalice, Gyre Sage and your standard ramp package (well my standard ramp package at least). To facilite not dying we have the amazing Spike Weaver and a few blue sweeper type cards and some bounce. Spike Weaver is great because you can build the counters on him giving you endless fogs.
This should give you a basic idea of what the deck is trying to accomplish, which is not much of anything.
9/7/13
-Gemstone Array
-Hinder
-Sylvan Primordial
-Noxious Revival
-Oracle of Mul Daya
-Blinkmoth Well
-Riptide Laboratory
-Halimar Depths
+Nature's Claim
+Tormod's Crypt
+Chrome Mox
+Simic Growth Chamber
+Forest
+Thirst for Knowledge
+Arcane Denial
+Temple of the False God
My laziness wore off momentarily and I posted up the list I'm currently running on MTGO and tidied up the OP a little to make everything more legible.
I'm trying to keep this on a budget but I'm interested in developing an ideal paper version as well. Cards like Mana Drain are in neither of our lists but should be included.
I'd also like to hear people's thoughts about other lock pieces. I'm already set up very well to abuse Winter Orb and Static Orb for example. Taxing and Staxing doesn't seem like it would be overly effective but there might be some gems I missed.
Made some changes recently that seem to be working out. I wanted another recursion spell, counter spell and land so I added in Noxious Revival, Forbid and Blinkmoth Well. Winter Orb and Static Orb were added as well giving me some more lock pieces and both have been performing well. Cut Fabricate since it never felt like it was worth the mana and with the addition of the orbs I'm less reliant on Tangle Wire. Fathom Mage never did much for me despite the synergy with Vorel. Would usually die after I drew a couple cards which wasn't worth the effort. Cut Darksteel Forge for being too expensive, Turnabout for not being that good when I drew it and Kodama's Reach for the extra land.
I thought of Helix Pinnacle and Jitte, though more cowbell never hurt. Helix Pinnacle has Shroud instead of Hexproof which is a bummer so I think Darksteel Reactor would be the best option for a win condition. Jitte could be nice since I usually have at least a creature or 2 out to equip it. Spot removal is in short supply and I have plenty of tutors. Sounds good but I need to check what they go for online since I don't currently have one.
I like the list overall, would add a merchant scroll and a back to basics. Feel the deck has some removal lack. I dont see it holding against aggro types such as Goblins, Elves etc
Welcome to the forums and thanks for leaving feedback!
Merchant Scroll is a good idea and I have been feeling a bit removal light though I don't feel I need very much. Once the lock pieces start dropping most of my opponent's permanents don't really matter. The only concerns are usually Planeswalkers and sometimes Vigilance creatures and big rocks like Gilded Lotus, pretty much just stuff that still lets them do stuff. After going through moxnix's list I'm definitely going to add in Chain of Vapor which was an oversight on my part.
I'm considering Jace Beleren in Thirst for Knowledge's slot. Jace should be pretty cheap and I think that would be a solid upgrade as I can build Jace before dropping the lock pieces and then just use him as a personal Howling Mine. Jace the Mindsculptor is not in my MTGO budget sadly.
I've been moving away from the Vorel support cards as there really isn't all that much that he works with. He's still a useful Commander but I don’t feel he needs very many cards specifically for him that aren't very useful on their own. Thousand-Year Elixir is very rarely used and I can easily cut this card I think. Illusionist's Bracers has gotten a good bit of use but I haven't played with them enough to decide whether they're win more or actually helpful. They do enable some of the splashier plays but I think once the new U/G Muse comes out they will be cut. Other than the Swiftfoot Boots and Krosan Grip haven't been that great either so I'll probably cut one of those as well. I don't think the boots have enough targets that I care about and if I really need to I can protect my stuff with bounce and counters. Krosan Grip is probably worse than Naturalize, the split second just isn't relevant very often in this deck for some reason.
The only creature that bounces permanents I can think of that I'd want to run is Temporal Adept which isn't a bad option but I think he's a bit mana hungry. I really need to play the deck some more to see what I'd be comfortable cutting but I'm definitely open to suggestions. Tried Devastation Tide but didn't like it much.
Still on the build but leave you 3 importants add u might want to consider:
Sunder
Mind Over Matter
Meekstone( u do lack protection against agro builds)
I've thought about Sunder a lot but I make a conscious effort not to run mass land wipes on MTGO, I'm quite certain I'm griefing people enough without it.:) It's definitely powerful enough to run.
Mind Over Matter is certainly something to think about. It keeps Stasis going, helps with Orbs, especially Static Orb, goes really nice with Consecrated Sphinx, yeah I'm liking this card. I'll pick one up if it's cheap.
The list above isn't entirely accurate since I know I'm running Constant Mists right now. Between Constant Mists and Spike Weaver + Vorel I've been managing to slow down regular creature attacks. Really fast aggro decks likely still a problem but I haven't had many issues so far.
I've got a list similar to yours and was wondering if you have had any thoughts of adding anything from the new set?
So far I have Prophet of Kruphix in my list. I might consider putting in Thassa, God of the Sea if I can get one for cheap enough. Horizon Chimera is a card that I'm contemplating putting in, and Fade into Antiquity is a removal card that I feel is almost necessary due to the number of indestructible enchantments now in play. And on that note I am prolly going to add in Deglamer as well.
I've got a list similar to yours and was wondering if you have had any thoughts of adding anything from the new set?
So far I have Prophet of Kruphix in my list. I might consider putting in Thassa, God of the Sea if I can get one for cheap enough. Horizon Chimera is a card that I'm contemplating putting in, and Fade into Antiquity is a removal card that I feel is almost necessary due to the number of indestructible enchantments now in play. And on that note I am prolly going to add in Deglamer as well.
I've got a list similar to yours and was wondering if you have had any thoughts of adding anything from the new set?
So far I have Prophet of Kruphix in my list. I might consider putting in Thassa, God of the Sea if I can get one for cheap enough. Horizon Chimera is a card that I'm contemplating putting in, and Fade into Antiquity is a removal card that I feel is almost necessary due to the number of indestructible enchantments now in play. And on that note I am prolly going to add in Deglamer as well.
The MVP from the set will almost certainly be the Prophet for obvious reasons. I do like Thassa for several reasons, first she acts like a mini Phyrexian Arena which is not too bad especially if the board is locked down. Making creatures unblockable can be very useful if we end up with a huge Fertilid or Spike Weaver. Lastly she's an artifact creature which makes her fairly accessible. Horizon Chimera I'm not too keen on. It's certainly an efficient creature but I think we can do more with that slot. Fade into Antiquity is really hurt by not being an instant. It feels almost like it was purposefully neutered maybe due to the nature of the set. Deglamer seems like a much better add.
Actually just cut Seedborn Muse. I feel like I have enough tutors for the Prophet. My list has changed a fair amount and I've also bought some of the more expensive cards I didn't have before, I'll try and post my changes and update my list shortly.
EDIT: I'll have to wait until I get home because I'm not sure of all the changes, something like the following
I've started replaying this deck recently and updated the list with my current version. It's still a bit slow to get started but has been doing well and very fun to play. If anyone has any ideas for cards to try out let me know.
I'd like to start off by saying that this deck was not my idea. I just happened to stumble across this list by HansonWK and thought the idea was interesting so I set out to tweak the list to my tastes. I strongly encourage you to read through his writeup as it will explain the basic concepts of the deck in far more detail than I care to do here. This is merely a place to generate discussion hopefully.
HansonWK's decklist is in the second post compliments of ISBPathfinder.
Would I like this deck?
You might like this deck if you
1. like prison strategies.
2. like counters (both kinds).
3. think it would be neat to have a Pentad Prism with over 1000 counters on it.
4. want a deck where you can play Stasis.
5. don't like it when your opponents cast spells.
You might not like this deck if
1. you feel bad when you do bad things.
Deck list
3 Vorel of the Hull Clade
Creatures
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Gyre Sage
2 Vedalken Mastermind
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
3 Eternal Witness
3 Fertilid
4 Spike Weaver
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Seedborn Muse
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
6 Consecrated Sphinx
Artifact
0 Chrome Mox
0 Everflowing Chalice
0 Mox Diamond
0 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
2 Pentad Prism
2 Simic Signet
2 Winter Orb
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Tangle Wire
Enchantment
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Exploration
2 Stasis
2 Sylvan Library
3 Rhystic Study
4 Frozen Aether
6 Mind over Matter
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
5 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
6 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Instant
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Constant Mists
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Impulse
2 Mana Drain
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Capsize
3 Forbid
4 Fact or Fiction
5 Force of Will
5 Sunder
8 Dig Through Time
Sorcery
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Personal Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Nature's Lore
2 Regrowth
3 Fabricate
3 Windfall
6 Recurring Insight
6 Time Spiral
8 Treasure Cruise
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
4 Forest
1 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Coast
Strategy
This is a prison deck that is trying to prevent your opponents from casting spells. Once they cannot cast spells they've lost so you don't actually need to win because your opponents should just scoop. If they don't then you just build up a ton of mana and kill them with Blue Sun's Zenith or whatever. To make this happen we're going to lock them down with Tangle Wire, Winter Orb, and/or Stasis.
Tangle Wire - This is obviously great with Vorel because you can continually double counters and it won't ever leave play. Even better it will very quickly get to the point where every artifact, creature and land will be tapped during upkeep. This means that your opponents and you will be limited to playing instants. There are a number of ways that we're attempting to break this symmetry. Prophet of Kruphix allows some of our stuff to untap, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir prevents opponents from playing instants while allowing you to play creatures during upkeep, Capsize and Vedalken Mastermind can repeatedly bounce it at EOT, Pentad Prism doesn't need to tap to provide mana, Leyline of Anticipation lets you cast whatever, Using Vorel to double counters on Pentad Prism still lets you build up your mana fairly quickly. Tangle Wire is especially brutal with Stasis or Winter Orb in play.
Stasis - There are less things that break the symmetry of Stasis but the effect is much more potent than Tangle Wire. Frozen Aether ensures that even their meager 1 land per turn ETB tapped and is key to creating a hard lock. Vedalken Mastermind and Capsize allow you to bounce it back to your hand every turn. Pentad Prism can provide mana during a Stasis lock without the need to untap. Planeswalkers are great because they can still activate every turn. Garruk Wildspeaker can keep a lock going by untapping your land every turn and Tezzeret the Seeker can fill a similar role with artifact mana. Notably Prophet of Kruphix does not work with Stasis. Your opponents have no untap steps so you untap nothing.
Winter Orb - Similar to the cards above Worb seeks to slow the game to a glacial crawl which is just where we want the game to be. Prophet of Kruphix is excellent as is any way to bounce it back to your hand right before your turn to ensure the effect is one sided. Lands that tap for multiple mana such as Simic Growth Chamber are also nice to have as are planeswalkers to help make sure you're doing something useful even if you don't have much mana. Timing is also critical as you want to make sure your opponents are mostly tapped out when this is dropped.
So we have our game plan which is to get one of these online and prevent our opponents from playing Magic. However there are some alternate paths to victory and things to keep us busy until that happens. Endless durdling is our primary win condition however I've also had a few games were I ended up with a massive Fertilid or Spike Weaver, feel free to beat people senseless if the opportunity arises. No greater shame than being bludgeoned to death with fatties by a Stasis deck. Aside from that we probably want to build up our mana. And not die, that would be good too. So for mana we havePentad Prism, Everflowing Chalice, Gyre Sage and your standard ramp package (well my standard ramp package at least). To facilite not dying we have the amazing Spike Weaver and a few blue sweeper type cards and some bounce. Spike Weaver is great because you can build the counters on him giving you endless fogs.
This should give you a basic idea of what the deck is trying to accomplish, which is not much of anything.
Changelog
+Noxious Revival
+Winter Orb
+Static Orb
+Blinkmoth Well
+Forbid
-Fabricate
-Darksteel Forge
-Turnabout
-Fathom Mage
-Kodama's Reach
9/7/13
-Gemstone Array
-Hinder
-Sylvan Primordial
-Noxious Revival
-Oracle of Mul Daya
-Blinkmoth Well
-Riptide Laboratory
-Halimar Depths
+Nature's Claim
+Tormod's Crypt
+Chrome Mox
+Simic Growth Chamber
+Forest
+Thirst for Knowledge
+Arcane Denial
+Temple of the False God
10/23/13
Cuts
Seedborn Muse
Illusionist's Bracers
Magistrate's Scepter
Thousand-Year Elixir
Mana Reflection
Krosan Grip
Thirst for Knowledge
Transmute Artifact
Island
Forest
Added
Jace Beleren
Exploration
Time Spiral
Mana Drain
Tropical Island
Fabricate
Prophet of Kruphix
Reflecting Pool
Chain of Vapor
2/14/16
-Island
-Prophet of Kruphix
+Dryad Arbor
+Seedborn Muse
3/14/16
-Nissa Worldwaker
+Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Darksteel Reactor
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Gemstone Array
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grim Monolith
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Lux Cannon
1x Magistrate's Scepter
1x Mana Vault
1x Pentad Prism
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Domination
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Tangle Wire
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Umbral Mantle
Instant (11)
1x Beast Within
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Capsize
1x Chord of Calling
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Force of Will
1x Hinder
1x Krosan Grip
1x Misdirection
1x Pact of Negation
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Cultivate
1x Fabricate
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Regrowth
1x Reshape
1x Sylvan Tutor
1x Transmute Artifact
Creature (16)
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fathom Mage
1x Fertilid
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Gyre Sage
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Simic Manipulator
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Spike Weaver
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Triskelion
1x Vedalken Mastermind
Land (37)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Breeding Pool
1x Buried Ruin
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Grove
14x Forest
1x Halimar Depths
1x Hinterland Harbor
10x Island
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Tolaria West
1x Tropical Island
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Enchantment (5)
1x Doubling Season
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Mana Bloom
1x Power Artifact
1x Stasis
Its an interesting concept for sure. Trolling playgroups is always fun
It sort of reminds me of Gals no wincon Azami but with intentions to win.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I'm trying to keep this on a budget but I'm interested in developing an ideal paper version as well. Cards like Mana Drain are in neither of our lists but should be included.
I'd also like to hear people's thoughts about other lock pieces. I'm already set up very well to abuse Winter Orb and Static Orb for example. Taxing and Staxing doesn't seem like it would be overly effective but there might be some gems I missed.
EDIT: Yay double post
Umezawa's Jitte?
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Welcome to the forums and thanks for leaving feedback!
Merchant Scroll is a good idea and I have been feeling a bit removal light though I don't feel I need very much. Once the lock pieces start dropping most of my opponent's permanents don't really matter. The only concerns are usually Planeswalkers and sometimes Vigilance creatures and big rocks like Gilded Lotus, pretty much just stuff that still lets them do stuff. After going through moxnix's list I'm definitely going to add in Chain of Vapor which was an oversight on my part.
I'm considering Jace Beleren in Thirst for Knowledge's slot. Jace should be pretty cheap and I think that would be a solid upgrade as I can build Jace before dropping the lock pieces and then just use him as a personal Howling Mine. Jace the Mindsculptor is not in my MTGO budget sadly.
I've been moving away from the Vorel support cards as there really isn't all that much that he works with. He's still a useful Commander but I don’t feel he needs very many cards specifically for him that aren't very useful on their own. Thousand-Year Elixir is very rarely used and I can easily cut this card I think. Illusionist's Bracers has gotten a good bit of use but I haven't played with them enough to decide whether they're win more or actually helpful. They do enable some of the splashier plays but I think once the new U/G Muse comes out they will be cut. Other than the Swiftfoot Boots and Krosan Grip haven't been that great either so I'll probably cut one of those as well. I don't think the boots have enough targets that I care about and if I really need to I can protect my stuff with bounce and counters. Krosan Grip is probably worse than Naturalize, the split second just isn't relevant very often in this deck for some reason.
I'm not sure if the utility lands could be improved. Buried Ruin, Temple of the False God and Reliquary Tower are all OK but not great. I've tried Riptide Laboratory and Blinkmoth Well (to tap Static Orb) but they were about the same. I'm thinking about running Rogue's Passage because I find myself with a massive Spike Weaver or Fertilid sometimes but they always get chump blocked.
I've thought about Sunder a lot but I make a conscious effort not to run mass land wipes on MTGO, I'm quite certain I'm griefing people enough without it.:) It's definitely powerful enough to run.
Mind Over Matter is certainly something to think about. It keeps Stasis going, helps with Orbs, especially Static Orb, goes really nice with Consecrated Sphinx, yeah I'm liking this card. I'll pick one up if it's cheap.
The list above isn't entirely accurate since I know I'm running Constant Mists right now. Between Constant Mists and Spike Weaver + Vorel I've been managing to slow down regular creature attacks. Really fast aggro decks likely still a problem but I haven't had many issues so far.
So far I have Prophet of Kruphix in my list. I might consider putting in Thassa, God of the Sea if I can get one for cheap enough. Horizon Chimera is a card that I'm contemplating putting in, and Fade into Antiquity is a removal card that I feel is almost necessary due to the number of indestructible enchantments now in play. And on that note I am prolly going to add in Deglamer as well.
Signature made by Rivenor at Miraculous Recovery Signatures
EDH
[Primer] - BRG Adun Oakenshield: Jund Stax/Recycle Bin GRB
BRG Shatterbros Shenanigans GRB
The MVP from the set will almost certainly be the Prophet for obvious reasons. I do like Thassa for several reasons, first she acts like a mini Phyrexian Arena which is not too bad especially if the board is locked down. Making creatures unblockable can be very useful if we end up with a huge Fertilid or Spike Weaver. Lastly she's an
artifactcreature which makes her fairly accessible. Horizon Chimera I'm not too keen on. It's certainly an efficient creature but I think we can do more with that slot. Fade into Antiquity is really hurt by not being an instant. It feels almost like it was purposefully neutered maybe due to the nature of the set. Deglamer seems like a much better add.She is totally not an artifact.
Just a minor fix, but it's Magistrate's Scepter
I don't even play the Scepter anymore, I should fix that in the thread.
EDIT: I'll have to wait until I get home because I'm not sure of all the changes, something like the following
Cuts
Added
I'm obviously missing at least one add, I think I might have cut Evacuation too but I'm not sure.
EDIT 2: Azusa, Lost but Seeking was also added, that might be all the changes.