This deck aims to win the game with Commander Damage from Scion of the Ur-Dragon, while dumping Dragons into the graveyard for later reanimation.
So, it's basically a voltron deck (but Scion don't need no equipment!) with a reanimator subtheme. One may also call this deck a tribal dragon deck lol.
Just a note that this deck shares some cards, such as the mana base and fixing with my Sliver Queen deck that's linked in my sig (I ain't rich >_>).
Lastly, the "Conclusion" section lists out the things I could use your help with!
Notes: Sunhome and High Market are welcome additions over two basics.
Balefire and Hoard-Smelter added for more removal. Brion wasn't doing too much for me, same with Body Double.
Savage Beating looks like it would win games and Boros Charm should be great too.
Fires added for additional haste. Asceticism to protect creatures.
Finally traded for a Sneak Attack, so can go in here.
Mystical Tutor doesn't search for too much, have VT and DT anyway.
Notes: Dragon's Maze Update. Intent has never done much without a lot of library manipulation and Chant looks like an interesting card that can either reanimate a Dragon, or act as a Phyrexian Arena. Will test it out and see how it goes.
Notes: Zirilan of the Claw seems really cool, not sure how I missed it before. Crystal Quarry should help cast Scion easier and works perfectly with Fist of Suns (which in turn works with Chromatic Lantern and Prismatic Omen. Tainted Strike looks like it could win games out of no-where, will test it out. Cut cards that were underperforming.
Notes: M14 Update. Scourge of Valkas looks pretty cool, especially with a mass reanimation spell or Rite of Replication. Although I really do like Hoard-Smelter in here, I didn't know what else to cut, so will try it out in his place.
Notes: Theros Update! Fires is good, but most of the time the turn I play Scion, is with 2 mana untapped for a haste dragon anyway, and I have never used the +2/+2 abilility of it.
Cloak has been alright, mostly for the protection part, but Scion usually gets through anyway and the shroud interacts negatively with cards such as Bear Umbra, Tainted Strike, Boros Charm, Rite of Replication, etc. Whip of Erebos seems pretty awesome in here, being able to reuse ETB effects and help get some more damage through. I'll test it out, if it doesn't work will replace it with one of the cuts. Stormbreath Dragon seems perfect for Scion, being another haste target, that can be used to protect Scion from spells such as Path/Swords, it also becomes bigger, and punishes people with huge hands.
Notes: Journey into Nyx Update! Unfortunately, no awesome new dragons for Scion. Mainly a slight adjustment to the manabase. Hopefully this makes things smoother...
Notes: Conspiracy Update! A slight change the the removal suite. I don't think the Amulet is very necessary and Draco is just a big body and other dragons are probably better. Brainstorm is not only card draw and fixing but it also helps my put any Scion targets back into the deck for his use. And from CNS, I'm going to try out Scourge of the Throne, I'm not sure how great he'll be, as his additional combat phase trigger relies on attacking the person with the highest health, but it might be alright, as I'll only ever tutor for him when that's the case, and then he'll do 13 commander damage as Scion, while leaving 2 +1/+1 counters behind. If he doesn't pull his weight, I'll replace him with something else! Other considerations for this update included: Reanimate (cheap, efficient reanimation spell, should probably try find a spot for it), Victimize, Compulsive Research (card draw/dig that also sets up GY shenanigans) and Hellkite Tyrant (another dragon I want to find a spot for).
Notes: M15 Update. The only real consideration from the set was Siege Dragon which I don't think is good enough for the deck. Have made a couple of changes however, firstly I have swapped back Skyshroud Claim for Tempt with Discovery, which I was testing in its place. Although initially opponents were tempted to grab a land, over time they stopped doing so, and therefore Claim goes back in. Another addition is Xenagos, God of Revels - which for some reason I didn't consider for this deck when first spoiled. It seems pretty good and I'm going to test it out - not only does it give Scion haste, but it also doubles his power, leading to much quicker kills. Wasn't too sure what to cut for him and Deadbridge Chant seemed like the weakest link in the deck, so I'll move it to the Maybeboard for now.
Notes: Khans of Tarkir Update.
Tap lands cut to make space for fetches, should smoothen the deck out a lot.
Other than that, going to try out Hellkite Tyrant over Kokusho, the Evening Star, have wanted to test it out for quite some time. Can lead to blow outs now and then. Kokusho was only in there in response to Scion getting killed and to reanimate it, could go back in the future if a spot opens up again.
Replaced Necromancy or Animate Dead, costing 1 less.
Replaced Tempt with Immortality with Reanimate, 1 cmc reanimation spell seems good, as for Tempt, people stopped getting tempted! Defense of the Heart and Sheoldred, Whispering One were just goodstuff cards, going to try out Sultai Charm and Compulsive Research over them. Charm is the only card from KTK to find a spot, is good removal, plus card draw/filtering that dumps reanimation targets into the yard, the sample applies for Research.
Also going to test out Cruel Ultimatum over Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, unfortunately cannot find spots for both right now. Bolas was in here not cause its a dragon planeswalker, but can take over the game all on its own, however wasn't too synergistic with the overall plan of the deck. As for Cruel Ultimatum, its removal, card draw, recursion and disruption all built into one, will see how it performs.
Clever Impersonator: Good card is good. Going to be an EDH staple. I'm not sure that Scion needs it however. Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if its actually any good. Bitter Revelation: Card draw + dumps card for reanimation. Murderous Cut: Looks like a good card, but we have better removal available to us. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: Unlike the other two Sarkhans already in the deck, this one won't be making the cut - even if he does turn into a dragon himself O_o I do like the ultimate, but the other two abilities don't do much in EDH, unfortunately. Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion... Jeskai Ascendancy: Looting effect + a small pump, not too bad. Temur Ascendancy: I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up going in at some point. Also, Fires of Yavimaya should go back in too.. Cranial Archive: Both graveyard protection, as well as hate. See the Unwritten: Can occasionally cheat one or two creatures into play, while dumping the rest for reanimation, certainly not a bad card. Abzan Charm: Good removal, card draw, and a small pump. Not bad. Sultai Ascendancy: Library manipulation-esq that dumps cards into the yard for reanimation. Utter End: Good removal, but I think we have better options available to us. Life from the Loam: Now that fetches have gone in, this could go in too. Helps dump dragons into the yard and what not. Fact or Fiction: Should find a spot for this, good card is good... Prophet of Kruphix: This card is broken in EDH, and I don't run it in a single deck. Is Scion the deck for it? Scroll Rack: Lets you place dragons in your hand into your library for Scion, among other awesome things...
Notes: C14 Update!
I usually search up Bladewing the Risen with Scion when I have a reanimation spell to get two dragons back and what not, but he's not really a great target, and getting 2 dragons back instead of 1 is just win more, so am happy to let it go. Going to try out Tyrant's Familiar in it's place, which is another haste target for Scion, plus is a 7/7 that is also removal.
Other considerations included Silverblade Paladin, True Conviction, Necromantic Selection, Faithless Looting, & Flamekin Village.
Notes: Although Hua Tuo, Honored Physician doesn't cost any mana to activate, Bow of Nylea can be activated at instant speed, has "haste", and provides some other utility too, so going to make a swap here.
+1 Deadbridge Chant: Recently cut, but was fine in the deck. Acting as card advantage, as well as reanimating a dragon from time to time, while fueling the graveyard for mass reanimation.
+1 Faithless Looting: Seems good for card filtering/setting up reanimation targets.
+1 Fact or Fiction: Great card draw that dumps reanimation targets into the yard.
+1 Fires of Yavimaya: More haste outlets are always a good addition, leading to quicker kills with Scion.
+1 Kokusho, the Evening Star: Recently cut to make space, but is a good reanimate target.
+1 Life from the Loam: Self mill for reanimation + recurs lands.
+1 Necromancy: A great cheap reanimation spell.
+1 Path to Exile: Excellent removal.
+1 Prismatic Omen: Recently cut, but is a great mana base fixer. May go back in if needed.
+1 Sarkhan Vol: Recently cut. Trying out Sarkhan Unbroken over him.
+1 Scroll Rack: EDH staple that lets me put Scion targets from my hand into my library, among other things...
+1 Swords to Plowshares: Excellent removal.
Other Considerations
Arashin Sovereign: Not a bad dragon for Scion - can place him on top in response to a removal spell. Beacon of Unrest: Great utility reanimation spell. Beast Within: One of the best removal spells available. Bitter Revelation: Card draw that also dumps cards in the yard for reanimation. Bloom Tender: Good mana elf, could tap for 5 with Scion in play. Body Double: Good reanimation spell. Bogardan Hellkite: Unfortunately Scion doesn't trigger the ETB effect, but still agood card. Bladewing the Risen: Reanimation on a dragon, also pumps the team, not too bad. Breaking // Entering: Another reanimation spell if I ever need it. The haste is useful. Brilliant Ultimatum: Can be good with library manipulation, but probably not worth it. Brion Stoutarm: Dragons can be huge, and guy can deal a bunch of damage with them. Broodmate Dragon: Again, Scion doesn't trigger ETB, but is a well coasted dragon, that is a good reanimation target. Buried Alive: Can make this a more efficient reanimator deck, but I want to keep that a subtheme, with the main objective killing with commander damage. Cairn Wanderer: Can be fetched with Scion, not sure if great though. Clever Impersonator: Going to be an EDH staple, not sure if SCion needs it however. Cyclonic Rift: Great card, does this deck need it? Defense of the Heart: Recently got cut to make space, can lead to some blowouts. I can see this going back in sometime in the future. Destructor Dragon: Blows up a noncreature permanent in response to Scion being killed. Draco: Occasionally a 6 mana 9/9 flyer, but in there as a 9/9 beater for Scion's 21 damage. Used to run it, got cut. Dromar, the Banisher: An okay Scion dragon when you have to bounce a few creatures. Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion? Elvish Piper: A great cheat outlet. Eternal Witness: Great recursion spell. Gift of Immortality: An interesting way to keep Scion alive, probably not worth it though. Gilded Lotus: Dragons cost a lot of mana, any ramp is helpful to hardcast them if need be. Hoard-Smelter Dragon: Artifact removal on a Scion target that also pumps him, certainly not bad. Intet, the Dreamer: A cool Scion target that occasionally nets you a free card. Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Good card is good. Can win the game by itself, but mainly would go in for repeatable Brainstorms. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: Dragons are big, can drain people. Jeskai Ascendancy: Each noncreature spell slightly pumps Scion/other dragons, and also loots, not too shabby. Kaalia of the Vast: Another way to cheat dragons out quickly. Karmic Guide: Good reanimation card. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: Too many dragons are legendaries for this to work I think. Legion's Initiative: An interesting anti wrath card. Lightning Greaves: Haste + shroud, good card. Mana Reflection: Dragons cost a lot of mana... Mistveil Plains: Is obviously soooo good with Scion, the only problem is controlling 2 or more white permanents...Which will probably not happen too often Moltensteel Dragon: Allows for quick kills with Skythrix, commander damage, etc. Monastery Siege: Card draw/filtering, fuels graveyard, protection. Mortify: Good removal spell. Murderous Cut: We have better removal available to us. Mystical Tutor: Finds reanimator spells, among other things. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker: One of my favorite cards. Can win the game all by itself, among other things... Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: Card draw on a Scion target. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: " Noxious Dragon: Kill a creature upon Scion dying. Numot, the Devastator: Land D on a Scion target. Primeval Bounty: An interesting card that gives you advantage over time. Progenitor Mimic: I probably have too many legendary creatures for this, still, can lead to some cool plays. Prophet of Kruphix: Great EDH card that I don't run in any deck...Is Scion the place for it? Putrefy: Excellent removal card. Quicksilver Amulet: Another way to cheat dragons into play. Ready // Willing: Don't care too much about the lifelink and deathtouch part, but wouldn't mind a second Boros Charm type indestructible effect. Regrowth: Good recursion card. Rise of the Dark Realms: Big reanimation spell. Rogue's Passage: Unblockable Scion is good, but I think he has enough evasion. Savage Summoning: Instant speed threat that can't be countered, seems good. Scourge of Kher Ridges: Removal on a stick. See the Unwritten: Can cheat a couple of dragons into play, while dumping cards in the yard for reanimation. Sheoldred, Whispering One: Recently got cut. Is a good card. Disruption + recursion/reanimation, don't have to talk this guy up too much. Spinerock Knoll: Free cards. Spoils of Victory: More ramp/fixing Steam Augury: A worse Fact or Fiction Strionic Resonator: Can lead to some silly interactions, but probably win-more Sultai Ascendancy: Can manipulate the library, while dumping reanimation targets in the yard. Sword of Feast and Famine: Great card. Lets you keep mana up for instants, or cast twice as many spells in a turn, among other things... Tempt with Discovery: Tested it. I've found that Skyshroud Claim is just better. Tempt with Immortality: Tested it. People stopped getting tempted... Temur Ascendancy: Wouldn't be surprised if this ended up in the deck at some point. Thassa, God of the Sea: Unblockable threats, along with Scry every turn, not bad. Time Reversal: Can restock the library, among other things. Time Spiral: " Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if great. Unexpectedly Absent: Good removal that only got better with fetches being reprinted. Urza's Incubator: I don't really cast many dragons... Utter End: Good removal spell, but I think we have access to better ones. Violent Ultimatum: 3 Vindicates for 8 mana, certainly not bad. Whispersilk Cloak: Unblockable + shroud, seems good. Worldly Tutor: Searches for any creature you need, when you need it.
Thanks for taking a look! Any feedback or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Specifically, I would love advice on what I could cut to make room for the cards in my Maybeboard, such as Scroll Rack, Fires of Yavimaya, Fact or Fiction, and so on.
Feel free to check out my other decks linked in my sig!
Notes: Theros Update! Fires is good, but most of the time the turn I play Scion, is with 2 mana untapped for a haste dragon anyway, and I have never used the +2/+2 abilility of it. Cloak has been alright, mostly for the protection part, but Scion usually gets through anyway and the shroud interacts negatively with cards such as Bear Umbra, Tainted Strike, Boros Charm, Rite of Replication, etc. Whip of Erebos seems pretty awesome in here, being able to reuse ETB effects and help get some more damage through. I'll test it out, if it doesn't work will replace it with one of the cuts. Stormbreath Dragon seems perfect for Scion, being another haste target, that can be used to protect Scion from spells such as Path/Swords, it also becomes bigger, and punishes people with huge hands.
Bow of Nylea: The main (or only) use would be to get Dragons back into the library for Scion to reuse, but that does conflict with the whole reanimator subtheme.
I don't know if you saw my reply to a similar thread, but it went unanswered.
Lucky for me, copy/paste exists!
Hi,
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
I posted the cards I'm using while I take time to look through any trade binders I come across, but below are listed my intended swaps:
-Forbidden Alchemy for Tainted Pact, at which point, i'd likely drop more of my draw spells and keep my draw engines.
-Glimpse the Future for Buried Alive
-My familiar/Warden of Evos Isle/Dragonspeaker Shaman package for a better system, likely involving Amulet of Vigor and Prismatic Omen and what-have-you. The familiar actually help(ed) with the wealth of tri-color dragons I started with, so I'm sort of looking for a better facet that doesn't rule out casting from my hand with ease. I'm still exploring the deck, these provide me an ample crutch (as 'worse choice' spells tend to be based on cmc) to survive in my sometimes ruthless meta.
A couple of notes:
+Belbe's Portal churns dudes out of my hand but serves mostly as an early game defense as well as a political pawn, usually someone wastes their removal on the dragon or the artifact if it's a threat, saving my uncasted general. I'm sort of on the fence about it, because it's fun to have; I'd replace it with Kaalia of the Vast.
+On the note of Dreams of the Dead, recurring Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the fly has saved me from massive damage AND helped me connect for double. It's a good answer to GY hate as well.
I don't know if you saw my reply to a similar thread, but it went unanswered.
Lucky for me, copy/paste exists!
Hi,
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
Hey, I hadn't seen that post, I'll try help as much as I can.
-My familiar/Warden of Evos Isle/Dragonspeaker Shaman package for a better system, likely involving Amulet of Vigor and Prismatic Omen and what-have-you. The familiar actually help(ed) with the wealth of tri-color dragons I started with, so I'm sort of looking for a better facet that doesn't rule out casting from my hand with ease. I'm still exploring the deck, these provide me an ample crutch (as 'worse choice' spells tend to be based on cmc) to survive in my sometimes ruthless meta.
+Belbe's Portal churns dudes out of my hand but serves mostly as an early game defense as well as a political pawn, usually someone wastes their removal on the dragon or the artifact if it's a threat, saving my uncasted general. I'm sort of on the fence about it, because it's fun to have; I'd replace it with Kaalia of the Vast.
That's a pretty cool card, don't think I've seen it too many times before. I'm not too sure if it's better than Quicksilver Amulet though? Letting you put any of your other creatures into play, at instant speed, no questions asked (such as Gisela, Blade of Goldnight) seems good.
I considered Kaalia at earlier stages of the deck too, thinking it would be cool to run it as part of a 99 for a change - bet that doesn't happen too often. She might be alright, you should try her out.
+On the note of Dreams of the Dead, recurring Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the fly has saved me from massive damage AND helped me connect for double. It's a good answer to GY hate as well.
Dreams is a neat card too, don't think I've seen it before either. Certainly a card I'd like to use at some point!
I really like Dreams of the Dead & Spirit of Resistance from your list, both of those cards I had never seen before lol. Bower Passage is a pretty cool card too (I must have probably passed it every time while drafting...it's from Avacyn and I don't remember it -.-)
Anyway, hope this helps, and that this is what you wanted? Not trying to change your list to mine lol, just letting you know what I think is good. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Thanks for the input, I'm on the look-out for Sheoldred, Karrthus, and both Fist of Suns and Prismatic Omen!
My mana-friend package has always been a crutchy staple to my 5 color EDH design of the moment, it's surprisingly excellent with 3 color cards with colorless mana as they can possibly benefit two or three times depending on the color combination and mana-friend(s). While I agree it's not the best, it's pretty efficient
I had Zirilan of the Claw in but took it out because it's not a dragon and exiles my dragons rather than putting them in the GY. I mean, it's alright for non-essential win-cons (Nicol Bolas and Dragon Tyrant), but I don't know. I'd rather have Gisela, Blade of Goldnight due to my recursion count, her effect, and DAT ART.
My mana-friend package has always been a crutchy staple to my 5 color EDH design of the moment, it's surprisingly excellent with 3 color cards with colorless mana as they can possibly benefit two or three times depending on the color combination and mana-friend(s). While I agree it's not the best, it's pretty efficient
If it works for you, then you should keep running it ^^
I had Zirilan of the Claw in but took it out because it's not a dragon and exiles my dragons rather than putting them in the GY. I mean, it's alright for non-essential win-cons (Nicol Bolas and Dragon Tyrant), but I don't know. I'd rather have Gisela, Blade of Goldnight due to my recursion count, her effect, and DAT ART.
Haha, fair enough. I only recently added Zirilan, he seemed pretty cool. He has made me want to put more sac outlets in the deck though.
They're pretty cool - I hadn't considered them for Scion before. The only other creatures they would really work with are Zirilan of the Claw and Steel Hellkite and I don't really think that justifies their inclusion. Especially when Vorosh, the Hunter and other dragons of that cycle have triggered abilities. I mean sure, it's cool to activate Scion for just 1, but I'd rather have other cards in those spots
The only cards that made me even think of Scion from BNG are Forgestoker Dragon, Chromanticore & Fated Return and I don't think any of them are good enough to make the cut. So unfortunately, no changes. Wizards needs to print more Dragons!
Notes: Journey into Nyx Update! Unfortunately, no awesome new dragons for Scion. Mainly a slight adjustment to the manabase. Hopefully this makes things smoother...
Notes: Conspiracy Update! A slight change the the removal suite. I don't think the Amulet is very necessary and Draco is just a big body and other dragons are probably better. Brainstorm is not only card draw and fixing but it also helps my put any Scion targets back into the deck for his use. And from CNS, I'm going to try out Scourge of the Throne, I'm not sure how great he'll be, as his additional combat phase trigger relies on attacking the person with the highest health, but it might be alright, as I'll only ever tutor for him when that's the case, and then he'll do 13 commander damage as Scion, while leaving 2 +1/+1 counters behind. If he doesn't pull his weight, I'll replace him with something else! Other considerations for this update included: Reanimate (cheap, efficient reanimation spell, should probably try find a spot for it), Victimize, Compulsive Research (card draw/dig that also sets up GY shenanigans) and Hellkite Tyrant (another dragon I want to find a spot for).
Notes: M15 Update. The only real consideration from the set was Siege Dragon which I don't think is good enough for the deck. Have made a couple of changes however, firstly I have swapped back Skyshroud Claim for Tempt with Discovery, which I was testing in its place. Although initially opponents were tempted to grab a land, over time they stopped doing so, and therefore Claim goes back in. Another addition is Xenagos, God of Revels - which for some reason I didn't consider for this deck when first spoiled. It seems pretty good and I'm going to test it out - not only does it give Scion haste, but it also doubles his power, leading to much quicker kills. Wasn't too sure what to cut for him and Deadbridge Chant seemed like the weakest link in the deck, so I'll move it to the Maybeboard for now.
Notes: Khans of Tarkir Update.
Tap lands cut to make space for fetches, should smoothen the deck out a lot.
Other than that, going to try out Hellkite Tyrant over Kokusho, the Evening Star, have wanted to test it out for quite some time. Can lead to blow outs now and then. Kokusho was only in there in response to Scion getting killed and to reanimate it, could go back in the future if a spot opens up again.
Replaced Necromancy or Animate Dead, costing 1 less.
Replaced Tempt with Immortality with Reanimate, 1 cmc reanimation spell seems good, as for Tempt, people stopped getting tempted! Defense of the Heart and Sheoldred, Whispering One were just goodstuff cards, going to try out Sultai Charm and Compulsive Research over them. Charm is the only card from KTK to find a spot, is good removal, plus card draw/filtering that dumps reanimation targets into the yard, the sample applies for Research.
Also going to test out Cruel Ultimatum over Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, unfortunately cannot find spots for both right now. Bolas was in here not cause its a dragon planeswalker, but can take over the game all on its own, however wasn't too synergistic with the overall plan of the deck. As for Cruel Ultimatum, its removal, card draw, recursion and disruption all built into one, will see how it performs.
Other considerations that didn't make the cut/I couldn't find a spot for: Abzan Charm: Good removal, card draw, and a small pump. Not bad. Bitter Revelation: Card draw + dumps card for reanimation. Clever Impersonator: Good card is good. Going to be an EDH staple. I'm not sure that Scion needs it however. Cranial Archive: Both graveyard protection, as well as hate. Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion... Fact or Fiction: Should find a spot for this, good card is good... Jeskai Ascendancy: Looting effect + a small pump, not too bad. Life from the Loam: Now that fetches have gone in, this could go in too. Helps dump dragons into the yard and what not. Murderous Cut: Looks like a good card, but we have better removal available to us. Prophet of Kruphix: This card is broken in EDH, and I don't run it in a single deck. Is Scion the deck for it? Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: Unlike the other two Sarkhans already in the deck, this one won't be making the cut - even if he does turn into a dragon himself O_o I do like the ultimate, but the other two abilities don't do much in EDH, unfortunately. Scroll Rack: Lets you place dragons in your hand into your library for Scion, among other awesome things... See the Unwritten: Can occasionally cheat one or two creatures into play, while dumping the rest for reanimation, certainly not a bad card. Sultai Ascendancy: Library manipulation-esq that dumps cards into the yard for reanimation. Temur Ascendancy: I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up going in at some point. Also, Fires of Yavimaya should go back in too.. Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if its actually any good. Utter End: Good removal, but I think we have better options available to us.
Only one non-fetchland card from KTK found a spot though. But don't worry Scion, we should be getting some awesome Dragons next set, all going well...!
I usually search up Bladewing the Risen with Scion when I have a reanimation spell to get two dragons back and what not, but he's not really a great target, and getting 2 dragons back instead of 1 is just win more, so am happy to let it go. Going to try out Tyrant's Familiar in it's place, which is another haste target for Scion, plus is a 7/7 that is also removal.
Scourge of the Throne relying on Dethrone is quite a downside, so have decided to cut it. In it's place I'm going to try out Atarka, World Render, which sort of plays the same role.
Hellkite Tyrant can be great when playing against an artifact deck, or even stealing a couple of Sol Rings is sweet, but it doesn't really help with the goals of the deck (primary: voltron, secondary: reanimator), so will cut it for now. In its place goes in Silumgar, the Drifting Death, which is the first ever dragon with hexproof! So it's a great way of protecting Scion. It's secondary ability may be handy from time to time against token decks or something, but isn't the reason it's being included.
The first change is fairly straightforward - Haven of the Spirit Dragon is pretty good in here. Even though I don't run Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, it produces any colour for Dragon spells, plus it can return a Dragon from my graveyard from my hand.
Dragon Tempest is also pretty good for this deck. Scion loves haste outlets, and this gives all my Dragons haste, while acting as a mini Scourge of Valkas. As the mana base of this deck has been improving (due to fetches being reprinted and what not), I'm going to try the deck out without Prismatic Omen. If I miss it too much, I'll re-add it. So, on the Maybeboard it goes.
Lastly, Sarkhan Unbroken is going to replace Sarkhan Vol. Although Sarkhan Vol was great for giving Scion etc haste, Dragon Tempest can do that for half the cost now. Sarkhan Unbroken on the other hand both draws a card and ramps me. He also produces tokens at a cheaper cost. Plus, his Ultimate pretty much winsthegame. Also, I didn't really want 3 Sarkhans in the deck, so Vol too can sit on the Maybeboard for now.
Notes: Although Hua Tuo, Honored Physician doesn't cost any mana to activate, Bow of Nylea can be activated at instant speed, has "haste", and provides some other utility too, so going to make a swap here.
I had Zirilan of the Claw in but took it out because it's not a dragon and exiles my dragons rather than putting them in the GY. I mean, it's alright for non-essential win-cons (Nicol Bolas and Dragon Tyrant), but I don't know. I'd rather have Gisela, Blade of Goldnight due to my recursion count, her effect, and DAT ART.
Okay, so the deck was originally 5-color good stuff, it had a few dragons in it, but after the new sets I made it dragon tribal.
A few things, I feel like I have to many dragons in the deck, is that the case? Plus a bunch of other non-dragon creatures. Should I cut down the number of creatures for something else?
The second issue is that I feel like the curve is way to high, with a bunch of cards that cost 5+ it takes awhile for the deck to get going.
Okay, so the deck was originally 5-color good stuff, it had a few dragons in it, but after the new sets I made it dragon tribal.
A few things, I feel like I have to many dragons in the deck, is that the case? Plus a bunch of other non-dragon creatures. Should I cut down the number of creatures for something else?
The second issue is that I feel like the curve is way to high, with a bunch of cards that cost 5+ it takes awhile for the deck to get going.
Finally, is there anything you would add that I haven't mentioned? Is there something you think has no place in this deck?
Hey there,
I don't think you have too many dragons. You're running 12, I run 19.
- I don't really find Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius worth running in here though. Note that this is if you plan on winning with Scion/Commander Damage often. You want big hitters and you want them to do something when you tutor them up (such as have hexproof to dodge removal, or have haste so you can attack with Scion the same turn you cast him, etc)
- Dragons I'd recommend you add include Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, Vorosh, the Hunter, Quicksilver Dragon, Balefire Dragon, & Dragon Tyrant (probably the best at ending games).
The curve for a Scion deck does tend to be high. You're already running several cheat cards to help with this (Another good one is Zirilan of the Claw btw). But I'd recommend you add Chromatic Lantern (EXCELLENT fixing), Fist of Suns (everything costs 5 at max...), and Farseek/Skyshroud Claim. Note that if you wanna play a deeper reanimator theme, you can run cards like Entomb, Buried Alive & Reanimate to speed things up. I'd recommend cards like Animate Dead & Unburial Rites anyway since Dragons are going to end up in your graveyard one way or another.
Most of those cards you want to add sound like fine additions, but note that Recurring Nightmare is banned. Also, you're running Balance, which is also banned. Is your list French? If so, a lot of my advice probably doesn't apply lol
I'd also recommend adding cards like Dragon Tempest, haste is really important in this deck - you want Scion to come down and kill someone as soon as possible. It's likely he won't survive an entire turn cycle often. Protection cards such as Boros Charm and Asceticism are also great in keeping him alive. Your list doesn't look like you're trying to win with commander damage too often, but note that this is my primary plan, so I personally think cards like Rafiq of the Many/Finest Hour & Xenagos, God of Revels are key.
There's nothing really that has "no place" in the deck - you have a vision for your deck and it's going to differ from everyone else's. I personally don't think you need cards like Bribery & Blatant Thievery cause you already have so many win conditions in your own deck in the form of Dragons and mass reanimation spells lol. It really depends on what you wanna be doing - I try to win mainly by commander damage, and then there's the reanimator plan. There's also a couple of combos in there like Scourge of Valkas + Rite of Replication; Hellkite Charger + Bear Umbra; etc, if it comes to that. Just make sure you know what your primary/secondary plan for the deck is, and you'll figure the rest out as you play the deck. Feel free to ask any other questions though, hope I could be of help
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Description
So, it's basically a voltron deck (but Scion don't need no equipment!) with a reanimator subtheme. One may also call this deck a tribal dragon deck lol.
Just a note that this deck shares some cards, such as the mana base and fixing with my Sliver Queen deck that's linked in my sig (I ain't rich >_>).
Lastly, the "Conclusion" section lists out the things I could use your help with!
Decklist
5 Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Scion Targets (18)
5 Scourge of Valkas [Firebreathing Target)(Also Win Condition)
5 Stormbreath Dragon [Haste & Pro White Target]
5 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [Haste, Regeneration & Infect-Win Target]
6 Hellkite Charger [Haste & Additional Combat Phase Target]
6 Vorosh, the Hunter [Pump Target]
6 Moltensteel Dragon [Pump Target]
6 Quicksilver Dragon [Redirection/Protection Target]
6 Silumgar, the Drifting Death [Hexproof/Protection Target]
6 Steel Hellkite [Pump Target](Also Removal)
6 Teneb, the Harvester (Also Reanimation)
7 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund [Haste Target]
7 Balefire Dragon (Also Removal)
7 Tyrant's Familiar [Haste Target](Also Removal)
7 Atarka, World Render
8 Hellkite Overlord [Haste, Regeneration & Firebreathing Target]
8 Nicol Bolas [Disruption Target]
8 Utvara Hellkite (Also Win Condition)
10 Dragon Tyrant [Firebreathing Target]
Hitting 21 (12)
0 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
0 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
2 Swiftfoot Boots (Also Protection)
2 Dragon Tempest (Also Removal)
2 Boros Charm (Also Protection)
4 Bear Umbra
4 Crucible of Fire
4 Rafiq of the Many
5 Finest Hour
5 Xenagos, God of Revels (Also Haste Outlet)
5 Savage Beating
5 Asceticism (Also Protection)
Tutors (2)
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top (Also Library Manipulation)
1 Brainstorm (Also Library Manipulation)
3 Compulsive Research
3 Phyrexian Arena
7 Cruel Ultimatum (Also Removal, Recursion, & Disruption)
Mana/Ramp (7)
1 Sol Ring
2 Farseek
3 Coalition Relic
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Fist of Suns
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Mirari's Wake (Also Pump)
Removal (4)
3 Bant Charm
3 Sultai Charm (Also Card Draw)
3 Maelstrom Pulse
6 Austere Command
Reanimate/Recursion (9)
0 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead
3 Bow of Nylea (Also Pump, Removal)
4 Whip of Erebos
5 Unburial Rites
5 Patriarch's Bidding
5 Living Death (Also Removal)
6 Cauldron Dance (Also Cheat Outlet)
Cheat Outlet (3)
4 Sneak Attack
5 Zirilan of the Claw (Also Tutor)
7 Tooth and Nail (Also Tutor)
Other Win Conditions (4)
1 Tainted Strike
5 Sarkhan the Mad (Also Card Draw, Removal)
5 Sarkhan Unbroken (Also Card Draw, Ramp)
9 Rite of Replication
0 High Market
0 Phyrexian Tower
Other Non-Basic Lands (28)
0 Command Tower
0 City of Brass
0 Mana Confluence
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Badlands
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Watery Grave
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Stomping Ground
0 Steam Vents
0 Godless Shrine
0 Blood Crypt
0 Temple Garden
0 Breeding Pool
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Flooded Strand
0 Arid Mesa
0 Polluted Delta
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Windswept Heath
0 Crystal Quarry
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Cavern of Souls (Also Disruption)
0 Haven of the Spirit Dragon (Also Recursion)
0 Homeward Path (Also Protection)
Basic Lands (5)
0 Swamp (x2)
0 Forest (x2)
0 Mountain (x1)
1 Scion of the Ur-Dragon (ALTERED)
1 Rafiq of the Many (FTV FOIL)
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Zirilan of the Claw
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
1 Moltensteel Dragon
1 Quicksilver Dragon
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Steel Hellkite (PR FOIL)
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Hellkite Overlord (ALTERED)
1 Nicol Bolas
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Dragon Tyrant
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
Artifacts (6)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Coalition Relic
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Fist of Suns
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Enchantments (9)
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Mirari's Wake (COMMANDER'S ARSENAL FOIL)
1 Animate Dead (ALTERED)
1 Sneak Attack (JUDGE FOIL)
1 Dragon Tempest
1 Crucible of Fire
1 Bear Umbra
1 Finest Hour (FOIL)
1 Asceticism
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Whip of Erebos
Instants (8)
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Bant Charm
1 Sultai Charm (PROMO FOIL)
1 Cauldron Dance
1 Tainted Strike
1 Boros Charm
1 Savage Beating
Sorceries (13)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Compulsive Research
1 Farseek
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Austere Command
1 Reanimate
1 Unburial Rites
1 Living Death
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Rite of Replication
1 Cruel Ultimatum (FTV FOIL)
1 Tooth and Nail
Lands (38)
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Badlands
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Arid Mesa
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
1 Crystal Quarry
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Homeward Path
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Swamp (ZENDIKAR FULL ART)
2 Forest (ZENDIKAR FULL ART)
1 Mountain (ZENDIKAR FULL ART)
Change Log
28/12/2012
-1 Time Spiral
+1 Time Reversal
Notes: $20 USD vs $1.50 USD. A budget replacement.
10/01/2013
-1 Forest
-1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Rogue's Passage
+1 Swiftfoot Boots
Notes: Passage looks like it would help me connect better. I think Boots will be better than Greaves cause of stuff like Bear Umbra, Shizo, etc.
30/01/2013
-1 Dragonskull Summit
+1 Badlands
Notes: Now that Olivia Voldaren has been retired, I can use this in here instead.
20/03/2013
-1 Forest
-1 Plains
-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Brion Stoutarm
-1 Mystical Tutor
-1 Eternal Witness
-1 Body Double
-1 Animate Dead
-1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
+1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
+1 High Market
+1 Balefire Dragon
+1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
+1 Savage Beating
+1 Boros Charm
+1 Fires of Yavimaya
+1 Sneak Attack
+1 Asceticism
Notes: Sunhome and High Market are welcome additions over two basics.
Balefire and Hoard-Smelter added for more removal. Brion wasn't doing too much for me, same with Body Double.
Savage Beating looks like it would win games and Boros Charm should be great too.
Fires added for additional haste. Asceticism to protect creatures.
Finally traded for a Sneak Attack, so can go in here.
Mystical Tutor doesn't search for too much, have VT and DT anyway.
30/04/2013
-1 Intet, the Dreamer
+1 Deadbridge Chant
Notes: Dragon's Maze Update. Intent has never done much without a lot of library manipulation and Chant looks like an interesting card that can either reanimate a Dragon, or act as a Phyrexian Arena. Will test it out and see how it goes.
7/05/2013
-1 Elvish Piper
-1 Wrath of God
-1 Time Reversal
-1 Rogue's Passage
+1 Zirilan of the Claw
+1 Tainted Strike
+1 Fist of Suns
+1 Crystal Quarry
Notes: Zirilan of the Claw seems really cool, not sure how I missed it before. Crystal Quarry should help cast Scion easier and works perfectly with Fist of Suns (which in turn works with Chromatic Lantern and Prismatic Omen. Tainted Strike looks like it could win games out of no-where, will test it out. Cut cards that were underperforming.
1/08/2013
-1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
+1 Scourge of Valkas
Notes: M14 Update. Scourge of Valkas looks pretty cool, especially with a mass reanimation spell or Rite of Replication. Although I really do like Hoard-Smelter in here, I didn't know what else to cut, so will try it out in his place.
17/09/2013
-1 Fires of Yavimaya
-1 Whispersilk Cloak
+1 Whip of Erebos
+1 Stormbreath Dragon
Notes: Theros Update! Fires is good, but most of the time the turn I play Scion, is with 2 mana untapped for a haste dragon anyway, and I have never used the +2/+2 abilility of it.
Cloak has been alright, mostly for the protection part, but Scion usually gets through anyway and the shroud interacts negatively with cards such as Bear Umbra, Tainted Strike, Boros Charm, Rite of Replication, etc.
Whip of Erebos seems pretty awesome in here, being able to reuse ETB effects and help get some more damage through. I'll test it out, if it doesn't work will replace it with one of the cuts.
Stormbreath Dragon seems perfect for Scion, being another haste target, that can be used to protect Scion from spells such as Path/Swords, it also becomes bigger, and punishes people with huge hands.
14/11/2013
-1 Beacon of Unrest
-1 Mountain
-1 Gilded Lotus
-1 Skyshroud Claim
+1 Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
+1 Tempt with Immortality
+1 Homeward Path
+1 Tempt with Discovery
Notes: CMDR13 Update! I feel Tempt with Immortality will probably work out better than Beacon of Unrest and Tempt with Discovery vs Skyshroud Claim. Not sure what to cut for Hua Tuo, Honored Physician in Mayael yet, but it also seems pretty good in here to reuse Scion targets. I've had my own Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund used against me way too many times, so Homeward Path finally makes its way in here. Other considerations: Karmic Guide, Unexpectedly Absent, Reincarnation, Spoils of Victory, Mosswort Bridge & Tempt with Reflections.
1/05/2014
-1 Island
-1 Plains
-1 Darksteel Ingot
-1 Mana Reflection
+1 Swamp
+1 Forest
+1 Mana Confluence
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Notes: Journey into Nyx Update! Unfortunately, no awesome new dragons for Scion. Mainly a slight adjustment to the manabase. Hopefully this makes things smoother...
10/06/2014
-1 Putrefy
-1 Mortify
-1 Quicksilver Amulet
-1 Draco
+1 Bant Charm
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Brainstorm
+1 Scourge of the Throne
Notes: Conspiracy Update! A slight change the the removal suite. I don't think the Amulet is very necessary and Draco is just a big body and other dragons are probably better. Brainstorm is not only card draw and fixing but it also helps my put any Scion targets back into the deck for his use. And from CNS, I'm going to try out Scourge of the Throne, I'm not sure how great he'll be, as his additional combat phase trigger relies on attacking the person with the highest health, but it might be alright, as I'll only ever tutor for him when that's the case, and then he'll do 13 commander damage as Scion, while leaving 2 +1/+1 counters behind. If he doesn't pull his weight, I'll replace him with something else! Other considerations for this update included: Reanimate (cheap, efficient reanimation spell, should probably try find a spot for it), Victimize, Compulsive Research (card draw/dig that also sets up GY shenanigans) and Hellkite Tyrant (another dragon I want to find a spot for).
10/07/2014
-1 Tempt with Discovery
-1 Deadbridge Chant
+1 Skyshroud Claim
+1 Xenagos, God of Revels
Notes: M15 Update. The only real consideration from the set was Siege Dragon which I don't think is good enough for the deck. Have made a couple of changes however, firstly I have swapped back Skyshroud Claim for Tempt with Discovery, which I was testing in its place. Although initially opponents were tempted to grab a land, over time they stopped doing so, and therefore Claim goes back in. Another addition is Xenagos, God of Revels - which for some reason I didn't consider for this deck when first spoiled. It seems pretty good and I'm going to test it out - not only does it give Scion haste, but it also doubles his power, leading to much quicker kills. Wasn't too sure what to cut for him and Deadbridge Chant seemed like the weakest link in the deck, so I'll move it to the Maybeboard for now.
20/09/2014
-1 Hinterland Harbor
-1 Glacial Fortress
-1 Drowned Catacomb*
-1 Sunpetal Grove*
-1 Rootbound Crag
-1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
-1 Necromancy
-1 Tempt with Immortality
-1 Defense of the Heart
-1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
-1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
+1 Bloodstained Mire*
+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Polluted Delta
+1 Windswept Heath*
+1 Wooded Foothills
+1 Hellkite Tyrant
+1 Animate Dead
+1 Reanimate
+1 Sultai Charm
+1 Cruel Ultimatum
+1 Compulsive Research
Notes: Khans of Tarkir Update.
Tap lands cut to make space for fetches, should smoothen the deck out a lot.
Other than that, going to try out Hellkite Tyrant over Kokusho, the Evening Star, have wanted to test it out for quite some time. Can lead to blow outs now and then. Kokusho was only in there in response to Scion getting killed and to reanimate it, could go back in the future if a spot opens up again.
Replaced Necromancy or Animate Dead, costing 1 less.
Replaced Tempt with Immortality with Reanimate, 1 cmc reanimation spell seems good, as for Tempt, people stopped getting tempted!
Defense of the Heart and Sheoldred, Whispering One were just goodstuff cards, going to try out Sultai Charm and Compulsive Research over them. Charm is the only card from KTK to find a spot, is good removal, plus card draw/filtering that dumps reanimation targets into the yard, the sample applies for Research.
Also going to test out Cruel Ultimatum over Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, unfortunately cannot find spots for both right now. Bolas was in here not cause its a dragon planeswalker, but can take over the game all on its own, however wasn't too synergistic with the overall plan of the deck. As for Cruel Ultimatum, its removal, card draw, recursion and disruption all built into one, will see how it performs.
Clever Impersonator: Good card is good. Going to be an EDH staple. I'm not sure that Scion needs it however.
Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if its actually any good.
Bitter Revelation: Card draw + dumps card for reanimation.
Murderous Cut: Looks like a good card, but we have better removal available to us.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: Unlike the other two Sarkhans already in the deck, this one won't be making the cut - even if he does turn into a dragon himself O_o I do like the ultimate, but the other two abilities don't do much in EDH, unfortunately.
Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion...
Jeskai Ascendancy: Looting effect + a small pump, not too bad.
Temur Ascendancy: I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up going in at some point. Also, Fires of Yavimaya should go back in too..
Cranial Archive: Both graveyard protection, as well as hate.
See the Unwritten: Can occasionally cheat one or two creatures into play, while dumping the rest for reanimation, certainly not a bad card.
Abzan Charm: Good removal, card draw, and a small pump. Not bad.
Sultai Ascendancy: Library manipulation-esq that dumps cards into the yard for reanimation.
Utter End: Good removal, but I think we have better options available to us.
Life from the Loam: Now that fetches have gone in, this could go in too. Helps dump dragons into the yard and what not.
Fact or Fiction: Should find a spot for this, good card is good...
Prophet of Kruphix: This card is broken in EDH, and I don't run it in a single deck. Is Scion the deck for it?
Scroll Rack: Lets you place dragons in your hand into your library for Scion, among other awesome things...
12/11/2014
-1 Bladewing the Risen
+1 Tyrant's Familiar
Notes: C14 Update!
I usually search up Bladewing the Risen with Scion when I have a reanimation spell to get two dragons back and what not, but he's not really a great target, and getting 2 dragons back instead of 1 is just win more, so am happy to let it go. Going to try out Tyrant's Familiar in it's place, which is another haste target for Scion, plus is a 7/7 that is also removal.
Other considerations included Silverblade Paladin, True Conviction, Necromantic Selection, Faithless Looting, & Flamekin Village.
18/01/2015
-1 Scourge of the Throne
-1 Hellkite Tyrant
+1 Atarka, World Render
+1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
Notes: Fate Reforged Update!
Scourge of the Throne relying on Dethrone is quite a downside, so have decided to cut it. In it's place I'm going to try out Atarka, World Render, which sort of plays the same role.
Hellkite Tyrant can be great when playing against an artifact deck, or even stealing a couple of Sol Rings is sweet, but it doesn't really help with the goals of the deck (primary: voltron, secondary: reanimator), so will cut it for now. In its place goes in Silumgar, the Drifting Death, which is the first ever dragon with hexproof! So it's a great way of protecting Scion. It's secondary ability may be handy from time to time against token decks or something, but isn't the reason it's being included.
Other considerations from the set included Monastery Siege, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Temporal Trespass, Crux of Fate, Fearsome Awakening, Noxious Dragon, Temur Battle Rage, Destructor Dragon, Dromoka, the Eternal, & Ojutai, Soul of Winter.
20/03/2015
-1 Sulfur Falls*
-1 Prismatic Omen*
-1 Sarkhan Vol*
+1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon*
+1 Dragon Tempest*
+1 Sarkhan Unbroken*
Notes: Dragons of Tarkir Update!
The first change is fairly straightforward - Haven of the Spirit Dragon is pretty good in here. Even though I don't run Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, it produces any colour for Dragon spells, plus it can return a Dragon from my graveyard from my hand.
Dragon Tempest is also pretty good for this deck. Scion loves haste outlets, and this gives all my Dragons haste, while acting as a mini Scourge of Valkas. As the mana base of this deck has been improving (due to fetches being reprinted and what not), I'm going to try the deck out without Prismatic Omen. If I miss it too much, I'll re-add it. So, on the Maybeboard it goes.
Lastly, Sarkhan Unbroken is going to replace Sarkhan Vol. Although Sarkhan Vol was great for giving Scion etc haste, Dragon Tempest can do that for half the cost now. Sarkhan Unbroken on the other hand both draws a card and ramps me. He also produces tokens at a cheaper cost. Plus, his Ultimate pretty much wins the game. Also, I didn't really want 3 Sarkhans in the deck, so Vol can sit on the Maybeboard for now.
No actual dragons made the cut for the deck...However, the considerations were: Belltoll Dragon (second dragon with hexproof, but, its too weak), Thunderbreak Regent, Arashin Sovereign (I actually like this one, turn Scion this in response to a removal spell, and put him on top of your library. Still, probably not good enough), Dragonlord Atarka, Dragonlord Dromoka (another serious consideration, protecting Scion on my turn, however, opponents can always kill Scion before the ability resolves), Dragonlord Kolaghan (a mini Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund), Dragonlord Ojutai (damn that untapped clause!), Dragonlord Silumgar, Harbinger of the Hunt, Pristine Skywise, & Savage Ventmaw.
Other non-dragon considerations included: Profound Journey, Dragonlord's Prerogative, Mirror Mockery, Zephyr Scribe, Foul Renewal, Sarkhan's Triumph (Unfortunately, there are better tutors available to us), Sight of the Scalelords, Dromoka's Command, Ojutai's Command, & Silumgar's Command, but none of them made the cut as of now.
25/03/2015
-1 Hua Tuo, Honored Physician*
+1 Bow of Nylea*
Notes: Although Hua Tuo, Honored Physician doesn't cost any mana to activate, Bow of Nylea can be activated at instant speed, has "haste", and provides some other utility too, so going to make a swap here.
38/08/2015
-1 Yosei, the Morning Star*
+1 Moltensteel Dragon*
Notes: Origins Update. Yosei, the Morning Star is a good Scion target in response to a removal spell, but with Quicksilver Dragon and Silumgar, the Drifting Death, I'm willing to let it go. Replacing it is Moltensteel Dragon - which is infamous in Scion decks for "comboing" with Dragon Tyrant and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.
Considerations from the actual set included Animist's Awakening, Dark Petition, Tragic Arrogance, Necromantic Summons, & Nissa's Revelation.
Maybeboard
+1 Faithless Looting: Seems good for card filtering/setting up reanimation targets.
+1 Fact or Fiction: Great card draw that dumps reanimation targets into the yard.
+1 Fires of Yavimaya: More haste outlets are always a good addition, leading to quicker kills with Scion.
+1 Kokusho, the Evening Star: Recently cut to make space, but is a good reanimate target.
+1 Life from the Loam: Self mill for reanimation + recurs lands.
+1 Necromancy: A great cheap reanimation spell.
+1 Path to Exile: Excellent removal.
+1 Prismatic Omen: Recently cut, but is a great mana base fixer. May go back in if needed.
+1 Sarkhan Vol: Recently cut. Trying out Sarkhan Unbroken over him.
+1 Scroll Rack: EDH staple that lets me put Scion targets from my hand into my library, among other things...
+1 Swords to Plowshares: Excellent removal.
Other Considerations
Beacon of Unrest: Great utility reanimation spell.
Beast Within: One of the best removal spells available.
Bitter Revelation: Card draw that also dumps cards in the yard for reanimation.
Bloom Tender: Good mana elf, could tap for 5 with Scion in play.
Body Double: Good reanimation spell.
Bogardan Hellkite: Unfortunately Scion doesn't trigger the ETB effect, but still agood card.
Bladewing the Risen: Reanimation on a dragon, also pumps the team, not too bad.
Breaking // Entering: Another reanimation spell if I ever need it. The haste is useful.
Brilliant Ultimatum: Can be good with library manipulation, but probably not worth it.
Brion Stoutarm: Dragons can be huge, and guy can deal a bunch of damage with them.
Broodmate Dragon: Again, Scion doesn't trigger ETB, but is a well coasted dragon, that is a good reanimation target.
Buried Alive: Can make this a more efficient reanimator deck, but I want to keep that a subtheme, with the main objective killing with commander damage.
Cairn Wanderer: Can be fetched with Scion, not sure if great though.
Clever Impersonator: Going to be an EDH staple, not sure if SCion needs it however.
Cyclonic Rift: Great card, does this deck need it?
Defense of the Heart: Recently got cut to make space, can lead to some blowouts. I can see this going back in sometime in the future.
Destructor Dragon: Blows up a noncreature permanent in response to Scion being killed.
Draco: Occasionally a 6 mana 9/9 flyer, but in there as a 9/9 beater for Scion's 21 damage. Used to run it, got cut.
Dromar, the Banisher: An okay Scion dragon when you have to bounce a few creatures.
Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion?
Elvish Piper: A great cheat outlet.
Eternal Witness: Great recursion spell.
Gift of Immortality: An interesting way to keep Scion alive, probably not worth it though.
Gilded Lotus: Dragons cost a lot of mana, any ramp is helpful to hardcast them if need be.
Hoard-Smelter Dragon: Artifact removal on a Scion target that also pumps him, certainly not bad.
Intet, the Dreamer: A cool Scion target that occasionally nets you a free card.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Good card is good. Can win the game by itself, but mainly would go in for repeatable Brainstorms.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: Dragons are big, can drain people.
Jeskai Ascendancy: Each noncreature spell slightly pumps Scion/other dragons, and also loots, not too shabby.
Kaalia of the Vast: Another way to cheat dragons out quickly.
Karmic Guide: Good reanimation card.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: Too many dragons are legendaries for this to work I think.
Legion's Initiative: An interesting anti wrath card.
Lightning Greaves: Haste + shroud, good card.
Mana Reflection: Dragons cost a lot of mana...
Mistveil Plains: Is obviously soooo good with Scion, the only problem is controlling 2 or more white permanents...Which will probably not happen too often
Moltensteel Dragon: Allows for quick kills with Skythrix, commander damage, etc.
Monastery Siege: Card draw/filtering, fuels graveyard, protection.
Mortify: Good removal spell.
Murderous Cut: We have better removal available to us.
Mystical Tutor: Finds reanimator spells, among other things.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker: One of my favorite cards. Can win the game all by itself, among other things...
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: Card draw on a Scion target.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: "
Noxious Dragon: Kill a creature upon Scion dying.
Numot, the Devastator: Land D on a Scion target.
Primeval Bounty: An interesting card that gives you advantage over time.
Progenitor Mimic: I probably have too many legendary creatures for this, still, can lead to some cool plays.
Prophet of Kruphix: Great EDH card that I don't run in any deck...Is Scion the place for it?
Putrefy: Excellent removal card.
Quicksilver Amulet: Another way to cheat dragons into play.
Ready // Willing: Don't care too much about the lifelink and deathtouch part, but wouldn't mind a second Boros Charm type indestructible effect.
Regrowth: Good recursion card.
Rise of the Dark Realms: Big reanimation spell.
Rogue's Passage: Unblockable Scion is good, but I think he has enough evasion.
Savage Summoning: Instant speed threat that can't be countered, seems good.
Scourge of Kher Ridges: Removal on a stick.
See the Unwritten: Can cheat a couple of dragons into play, while dumping cards in the yard for reanimation.
Sheoldred, Whispering One: Recently got cut. Is a good card. Disruption + recursion/reanimation, don't have to talk this guy up too much.
Spinerock Knoll: Free cards.
Spoils of Victory: More ramp/fixing
Steam Augury: A worse Fact or Fiction
Strionic Resonator: Can lead to some silly interactions, but probably win-more
Sultai Ascendancy: Can manipulate the library, while dumping reanimation targets in the yard.
Sword of Feast and Famine: Great card. Lets you keep mana up for instants, or cast twice as many spells in a turn, among other things...
Tempt with Discovery: Tested it. I've found that Skyshroud Claim is just better.
Tempt with Immortality: Tested it. People stopped getting tempted...
Temur Ascendancy: Wouldn't be surprised if this ended up in the deck at some point.
Thassa, God of the Sea: Unblockable threats, along with Scry every turn, not bad.
Time Reversal: Can restock the library, among other things.
Time Spiral: "
Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if great.
Unexpectedly Absent: Good removal that only got better with fetches being reprinted.
Urza's Incubator: I don't really cast many dragons...
Utter End: Good removal spell, but I think we have access to better ones.
Violent Ultimatum: 3 Vindicates for 8 mana, certainly not bad.
Whispersilk Cloak: Unblockable + shroud, seems good.
Worldly Tutor: Searches for any creature you need, when you need it.
Wishlist ($)
Other Original Duals
Other Fetches
Vindicate
Conclusion
Specifically, I would love advice on what I could cut to make room for the cards in my Maybeboard, such as Scroll Rack, Fires of Yavimaya, Fact or Fiction, and so on.
Feel free to check out my other decks linked in my sig!
-1 Fires of Yavimaya
-1 Whispersilk Cloak
+1 Whip of Erebos
+1 Stormbreath Dragon
Notes: Theros Update! Fires is good, but most of the time the turn I play Scion, is with 2 mana untapped for a haste dragon anyway, and I have never used the +2/+2 abilility of it. Cloak has been alright, mostly for the protection part, but Scion usually gets through anyway and the shroud interacts negatively with cards such as Bear Umbra, Tainted Strike, Boros Charm, Rite of Replication, etc. Whip of Erebos seems pretty awesome in here, being able to reuse ETB effects and help get some more damage through. I'll test it out, if it doesn't work will replace it with one of the cuts. Stormbreath Dragon seems perfect for Scion, being another haste target, that can be used to protect Scion from spells such as Path/Swords, it also becomes bigger, and punishes people with huge hands.
Other considerations from the set:
Feel free to make any other suggestions or comments!
Lucky for me, copy/paste exists!
Hi,
I've been lurking in this thread for a while, comparing notes with my approach and the approach of others' (except hermit-druid, I can't afford that business). I'm ready to reveal my prototype as it has been hardened by battle a few times and obvious adjustments have been made. I like what you're getting, I utilize many of the same cards, but also use others you do not. Anyway, I'm ready for some >$10 per card suggestions.
0 paradise mantle
1 elixir of immortality
2 lightning greaves
2 swiftfoot boots
3 chromatic lantern
5 belbe's portal
Three Color
6 oros, the avenger
6 teneb, the harvester
6 vorosh, the hunter
6 dromar, the banisher
6 numot, the devastator
8 nicol bolas
8 nicol bolas, planeswalker
Two Color
2 manamorphose
3x gaze of granite
4 plasm capture
4 jarad's orders
4 evil twin
4 notion thief
5 vraska, the unseen
5 obzedat's aid
5 urban evolution
7 bladewing the risen
7 gisela, blade of goldnight
2 sunscape familiar
3 spirit of resistance
4 breath of life
6 terminus
Black
2 nightscape familiar
2 exhume
2 demonic tutor
4 unburial rites
5 patriarch's bidding
5 living death
5 skithiryx, the blight dragon
Green
1 Abundant Growth
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Thornscape Familiar
2 Farseek
2 Bower Passage
3 Rites of Flourishing
4 Shard Convergence
5 Soul's Majesty
Blue
2 Stormscape Familiar
3 Windfall
3 Glimpse the Future
3 Rhystic Study
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Warden of Evos Isle
3 Crackling Counterpart
4 Dreams of the Dead
5 Devastation Tide
2 thunderscape familiar
3 seething song
3 fervor
3 dragonspeaker shaman
4 seize the day
5 scourge of valkas
6 hellkite tyrant
7 balefire dragon
8 utvara hellkite
10 dragon tyrant
38 lands, still in the works
I posted the cards I'm using while I take time to look through any trade binders I come across, but below are listed my intended swaps:
-Forbidden Alchemy for Tainted Pact, at which point, i'd likely drop more of my draw spells and keep my draw engines.
-Glimpse the Future for Buried Alive
-My familiar/Warden of Evos Isle/Dragonspeaker Shaman package for a better system, likely involving Amulet of Vigor and Prismatic Omen and what-have-you. The familiar actually help(ed) with the wealth of tri-color dragons I started with, so I'm sort of looking for a better facet that doesn't rule out casting from my hand with ease. I'm still exploring the deck, these provide me an ample crutch (as 'worse choice' spells tend to be based on cmc) to survive in my sometimes ruthless meta.
A couple of notes:
+Belbe's Portal churns dudes out of my hand but serves mostly as an early game defense as well as a political pawn, usually someone wastes their removal on the dragon or the artifact if it's a threat, saving my uncasted general. I'm sort of on the fence about it, because it's fun to have; I'd replace it with Kaalia of the Vast.
+Jarad's Orders: Bladewing the Risen in the hand, answer to whatever the threat is in the GY. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is easier to reanimate, and I can place Bladewing the Risen or a mana-friend into my hand too
+We've already covered Clone-ing Bladewing the Risen with Scourge of Valkas on the board. This can be done (more efficiently IMO) with Evil Twin, Crackling Counterpart, and Dreams of the Dead.
+On the note of Dreams of the Dead, recurring Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the fly has saved me from massive damage AND helped me connect for double. It's a good answer to GY hate as well.
___________________________
For you, I suggest Belbe's Portal, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Dreams of the Dead, and a Clone/Shifty Doppelganger.
Hey, I hadn't seen that post, I'll try help as much as I can.
Just after a first look at your deck, here are some recommendations:
I personally think Forbidden Alchemy is a lot better than Tainted Pact - Pact looks like a tutor, if that's what you want you should run Vampiric Tutor, Diabolic Tutor or Increasing Ambition. Alchemy on the other hand is an Impulse with the added bonus of a flashback, also dumping big creatures into your GY for reanimation.
Glimpse is pretty bad, especially compared to alchemy and I agree that Buried Alive will be a lot better.
I 100% agree that you need to cut Nightscape Familiar, Stormscape Familiar, Sunscape Familiar, Thornscape Familiar, Warden of Evos Isle & Paradise Mantle and replace it with better mana fixing. You could leave Dragonspeaker Shaman in since its flavourful and not too bad for the deck, but the rest, yeah. For mana fixing I'd recommend Prismatic Omen, Chromatic Lantern as a priority, with them comes Fist of Suns, making your huge dragons cost just 5 mana. Sol Ring, Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, Gilded Lotus, Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, Farseek,Skyshroud Claim, Cultivate and Kondama's Reach are all also highly recommended to smooth your mana base out/accelerate you.
That's a pretty cool card, don't think I've seen it too many times before. I'm not too sure if it's better than Quicksilver Amulet though? Letting you put any of your other creatures into play, at instant speed, no questions asked (such as Gisela, Blade of Goldnight) seems good.
I considered Kaalia at earlier stages of the deck too, thinking it would be cool to run it as part of a 99 for a change - bet that doesn't happen too often. She might be alright, you should try her out.
Seems like a good addition, Jarad's Orders deserves to see more play
If you wanna clone big dragons and abuse their ETB effects...:Rite of Replication.
Dreams is a neat card too, don't think I've seen it before either. Certainly a card I'd like to use at some point!
Belbe's Portal is cool, but I think Quicksilver Amulet is better.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is obviously an amazing card but I do want to limit the number of non-dragon creatures I run.
Dreams of the Dead is definitely something I will look into!
As for the clone effects, I have Rite of Replication
Some other cuts I'd like to suggest:
Devastation Tide: Um, Cyclonic Rift!
Abundant Growth: Generally won't be worth it.
Manamorphose/Seething Song: Not entirely sure what these are doing in there lol
Some other additions I'd like to suggest:
Zirilan of the Claw: Any dragon from your library, into play.
Sheoldred, Whispering One: Self explanatory, it's good
I really like Dreams of the Dead & Spirit of Resistance from your list, both of those cards I had never seen before lol. Bower Passage is a pretty cool card too (I must have probably passed it every time while drafting...it's from Avacyn and I don't remember it -.-)
Anyway, hope this helps, and that this is what you wanted? Not trying to change your list to mine lol, just letting you know what I think is good. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Thanks for the input, I'm on the look-out for Sheoldred, Karrthus, and both Fist of Suns and Prismatic Omen!
My mana-friend package has always been a crutchy staple to my 5 color EDH design of the moment, it's surprisingly excellent with 3 color cards with colorless mana as they can possibly benefit two or three times depending on the color combination and mana-friend(s). While I agree it's not the best, it's pretty efficient
I had Zirilan of the Claw in but took it out because it's not a dragon and exiles my dragons rather than putting them in the GY. I mean, it's alright for non-essential win-cons (Nicol Bolas and Dragon Tyrant), but I don't know. I'd rather have Gisela, Blade of Goldnight due to my recursion count, her effect, and DAT ART.
What's your take on Heartstone or Training grounds?
No problem ^^
Make sure to get Chromatic Latern too
If it works for you, then you should keep running it ^^
Haha, fair enough. I only recently added Zirilan, he seemed pretty cool. He has made me want to put more sac outlets in the deck though.
They're pretty cool - I hadn't considered them for Scion before. The only other creatures they would really work with are Zirilan of the Claw and Steel Hellkite and I don't really think that justifies their inclusion. Especially when Vorosh, the Hunter and other dragons of that cycle have triggered abilities. I mean sure, it's cool to activate Scion for just 1, but I'd rather have other cards in those spots
-1 Beacon of Unrest
-1 Mountain
-1 Gilded Lotus
-1 Skyshroud Claim
+1 Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
+1 Tempt with Immortality
+1 Homeward Path
+1 Tempt with Discovery
Notes: I feel Tempt with Immortality will probably work out better than Beacon of Unrest and Tempt with Discovery vs Skyshroud Claim. Not sure what to cut for Hua Tuo, Honored Physician in Mayael yet, but it also seems pretty good in here to reuse Scion targets. I've had my own Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund used against me way too many times, so Homeward Path finally makes its way in here.
Other considerations: Karmic Guide, Unexpectedly Absent, Reincarnation, Spoils of Victory, Mosswort Bridge & Tempt with Reflections.
-1 Island
-1 Plains
-1 Darksteel Ingot
-1 Mana Reflection
+1 Swamp
+1 Forest
+1 Mana Confluence
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Notes: Journey into Nyx Update! Unfortunately, no awesome new dragons for Scion. Mainly a slight adjustment to the manabase. Hopefully this makes things smoother...
-1 Putrefy
-1 Mortify
-1 Quicksilver Amulet
-1 Draco
+1 Bant Charm
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Brainstorm
+1 Scourge of the Throne
Notes: Conspiracy Update! A slight change the the removal suite. I don't think the Amulet is very necessary and Draco is just a big body and other dragons are probably better. Brainstorm is not only card draw and fixing but it also helps my put any Scion targets back into the deck for his use. And from CNS, I'm going to try out Scourge of the Throne, I'm not sure how great he'll be, as his additional combat phase trigger relies on attacking the person with the highest health, but it might be alright, as I'll only ever tutor for him when that's the case, and then he'll do 13 commander damage as Scion, while leaving 2 +1/+1 counters behind. If he doesn't pull his weight, I'll replace him with something else! Other considerations for this update included: Reanimate (cheap, efficient reanimation spell, should probably try find a spot for it), Victimize, Compulsive Research (card draw/dig that also sets up GY shenanigans) and Hellkite Tyrant (another dragon I want to find a spot for).
-1 Tempt with Discovery
-1 Deadbridge Chant
+1 Skyshroud Claim
+1 Xenagos, God of Revels
Notes: M15 Update. The only real consideration from the set was Siege Dragon which I don't think is good enough for the deck. Have made a couple of changes however, firstly I have swapped back Skyshroud Claim for Tempt with Discovery, which I was testing in its place. Although initially opponents were tempted to grab a land, over time they stopped doing so, and therefore Claim goes back in. Another addition is Xenagos, God of Revels - which for some reason I didn't consider for this deck when first spoiled. It seems pretty good and I'm going to test it out - not only does it give Scion haste, but it also doubles his power, leading to much quicker kills. Wasn't too sure what to cut for him and Deadbridge Chant seemed like the weakest link in the deck, so I'll move it to the Maybeboard for now.
-1 Hinterland Harbor
-1 Glacial Fortress
-1 Drowned Catacomb
-1 Sunpetal Grove
-1 Rootbound Crag
-1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
-1 Necromancy
-1 Tempt with Immortality
-1 Defense of the Heart
-1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
-1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
+1 Bloodstained Mire
+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Polluted Delta
+1 Windswept Heath
+1 Wooded Foothills
+1 Hellkite Tyrant
+1 Animate Dead
+1 Reanimate
+1 Sultai Charm
+1 Cruel Ultimatum
+1 Compulsive Research
Notes: Khans of Tarkir Update.
Tap lands cut to make space for fetches, should smoothen the deck out a lot.
Other than that, going to try out Hellkite Tyrant over Kokusho, the Evening Star, have wanted to test it out for quite some time. Can lead to blow outs now and then. Kokusho was only in there in response to Scion getting killed and to reanimate it, could go back in the future if a spot opens up again.
Replaced Necromancy or Animate Dead, costing 1 less.
Replaced Tempt with Immortality with Reanimate, 1 cmc reanimation spell seems good, as for Tempt, people stopped getting tempted!
Defense of the Heart and Sheoldred, Whispering One were just goodstuff cards, going to try out Sultai Charm and Compulsive Research over them. Charm is the only card from KTK to find a spot, is good removal, plus card draw/filtering that dumps reanimation targets into the yard, the sample applies for Research.
Also going to test out Cruel Ultimatum over Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, unfortunately cannot find spots for both right now. Bolas was in here not cause its a dragon planeswalker, but can take over the game all on its own, however wasn't too synergistic with the overall plan of the deck. As for Cruel Ultimatum, its removal, card draw, recursion and disruption all built into one, will see how it performs.
Other considerations that didn't make the cut/I couldn't find a spot for:
Abzan Charm: Good removal, card draw, and a small pump. Not bad.
Bitter Revelation: Card draw + dumps card for reanimation.
Clever Impersonator: Good card is good. Going to be an EDH staple. I'm not sure that Scion needs it however.
Cranial Archive: Both graveyard protection, as well as hate.
Duneblast: Kill everything but Scion...
Fact or Fiction: Should find a spot for this, good card is good...
Jeskai Ascendancy: Looting effect + a small pump, not too bad.
Life from the Loam: Now that fetches have gone in, this could go in too. Helps dump dragons into the yard and what not.
Murderous Cut: Looks like a good card, but we have better removal available to us.
Prophet of Kruphix: This card is broken in EDH, and I don't run it in a single deck. Is Scion the deck for it?
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: Unlike the other two Sarkhans already in the deck, this one won't be making the cut - even if he does turn into a dragon himself O_o I do like the ultimate, but the other two abilities don't do much in EDH, unfortunately.
Scroll Rack: Lets you place dragons in your hand into your library for Scion, among other awesome things...
See the Unwritten: Can occasionally cheat one or two creatures into play, while dumping the rest for reanimation, certainly not a bad card.
Sultai Ascendancy: Library manipulation-esq that dumps cards into the yard for reanimation.
Temur Ascendancy: I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up going in at some point. Also, Fires of Yavimaya should go back in too..
Treasure Cruise: A sorcery speed Ancestral Recall? Not sure if its actually any good.
Utter End: Good removal, but I think we have better options available to us.
Only one non-fetchland card from KTK found a spot though. But don't worry Scion, we should be getting some awesome Dragons next set, all going well...!
-1 Bladewing the Risen
+1 Tyrant's Familiar
Notes: C14 Update!
I usually search up Bladewing the Risen with Scion when I have a reanimation spell to get two dragons back and what not, but he's not really a great target, and getting 2 dragons back instead of 1 is just win more, so am happy to let it go. Going to try out Tyrant's Familiar in it's place, which is another haste target for Scion, plus is a 7/7 that is also removal.
Other considerations included Silverblade Paladin, True Conviction, Necromantic Selection, Faithless Looting, & Flamekin Village.
-1 Scourge of the Throne
-1 Hellkite Tyrant
+1 Atarka, World Render
+1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
Notes: Fate Reforged Update!
Scourge of the Throne relying on Dethrone is quite a downside, so have decided to cut it. In it's place I'm going to try out Atarka, World Render, which sort of plays the same role.
Hellkite Tyrant can be great when playing against an artifact deck, or even stealing a couple of Sol Rings is sweet, but it doesn't really help with the goals of the deck (primary: voltron, secondary: reanimator), so will cut it for now. In its place goes in Silumgar, the Drifting Death, which is the first ever dragon with hexproof! So it's a great way of protecting Scion. It's secondary ability may be handy from time to time against token decks or something, but isn't the reason it's being included.
Other considerations from the set included Monastery Siege, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Temporal Trespass, Crux of Fate, Fearsome Awakening, Noxious Dragon, Temur Battle Rage, Destructor Dragon, Dromoka, the Eternal, & Ojutai, Soul of Winter.
-1 Sulfur Falls
-1 Prismatic Omen
-1 Sarkhan Vol
+1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
+1 Dragon Tempest
+1 Sarkhan Unbroken
Notes: Dragons of Tarkir Update!
The first change is fairly straightforward - Haven of the Spirit Dragon is pretty good in here. Even though I don't run Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, it produces any colour for Dragon spells, plus it can return a Dragon from my graveyard from my hand.
Dragon Tempest is also pretty good for this deck. Scion loves haste outlets, and this gives all my Dragons haste, while acting as a mini Scourge of Valkas. As the mana base of this deck has been improving (due to fetches being reprinted and what not), I'm going to try the deck out without Prismatic Omen. If I miss it too much, I'll re-add it. So, on the Maybeboard it goes.
Lastly, Sarkhan Unbroken is going to replace Sarkhan Vol. Although Sarkhan Vol was great for giving Scion etc haste, Dragon Tempest can do that for half the cost now. Sarkhan Unbroken on the other hand both draws a card and ramps me. He also produces tokens at a cheaper cost. Plus, his Ultimate pretty much wins the game. Also, I didn't really want 3 Sarkhans in the deck, so Vol too can sit on the Maybeboard for now.
No actual dragons made the cut for the deck...However, the considerations were: Belltoll Dragon (second dragon with hexproof, but, its too weak), Thunderbreak Regent, Arashin Sovereign (I actually like this one, turn Scion this in response to a removal spell, and put him on top of your library. Still, probably not good enough), Dragonlord Atarka, Dragonlord Dromoka (another serious consideration, protecting Scion on my turn, however, opponents can always kill Scion before the ability resolves), Dragonlord Kolaghan (a mini Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund), Dragonlord Ojutai (damn that untapped clause!), Dragonlord Silumgar, Harbinger of the Hunt, Pristine Skywise, & Savage Ventmaw.
Other non-dragon considerations included: Profound Journey, Dragonlord's Prerogative, Mirror Mockery, Zephyr Scribe, Foul Renewal, Sarkhan's Triumph (Unfortunately, there are better tutors available to us), Sight of the Scalelords, Dromoka's Command, Ojutai's Command, & Silumgar's Command, but none of them made the cut as of now.
Anyway, feel free to leave any comments or suggestions
-1 Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
+1 Bow of Nylea
Notes: Although Hua Tuo, Honored Physician doesn't cost any mana to activate, Bow of Nylea can be activated at instant speed, has "haste", and provides some other utility too, so going to make a swap here.
Zirilian was errataed as a dragon creature.
1x Scion of the Ur-Dragon
1x Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
1x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1x Nicol Bolas
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Dromar, the Banisher
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Mana-Charged Dragon
1x Utvara Hellkite
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Rimescale Dragon
1x Steel Hellkite
Other Creatures:
1x Trygon Predator
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Narset, Enlightened Master
1x Elvish Piper
1x Vesuvan Doppelganger
1x Clone
1x Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Ali from Cairo
1x Magus of the Moat
Walkers:
1x Vraska the Unseen
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sweepers:
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Damnation
1x Living Death
1x Wash Out
1x Wrath of God
1x Austere Command
1x Balance
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Sylvan Tutor
1x Praetor's Grasp
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Bribery
1x Mystical Tutor
Draw:
1x Time Reversal
1x Rhystic Study
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Mind's Eye
Disruption:
1x Vindicate
1x Desert Twister
1x Oblivion Ring
Cheating:
1x Quicksilver Amulet
1x Hypergenesis
1x Sneak Attack
1x Mirari's Wake
Other Spells:
1x Seize the Day
1x Savage Beating
1x Blatant Thievery
1x Time Warp
1x Obelisk of Alara
1x Journeyer's Kite
Mana Rocks:
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Sol Grail
1x Sol Ring
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Spectral Searchlight
2x Snow-Covered Island
2x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Snow-Covered Forest
2x Snow-Covered Plains
2x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Blood Crypt
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Watery Grave
1x Stomping Ground
1x Breeding Pool
1x Steam Vents
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Opulent Palace
1x Savage Lands
1x Grasslands
1x Bad River
1x Mountain Valley
1x Flood Plain
1x Rocky Tar Pit
1x Strip Mine
1x Krosan Verge
1x Nimbus Maze
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Tundra
1x BadLands
1x Savannah
1x Tropical Island
1x Scrubland
Okay, so the deck was originally 5-color good stuff, it had a few dragons in it, but after the new sets I made it dragon tribal.
A few things, I feel like I have to many dragons in the deck, is that the case? Plus a bunch of other non-dragon creatures. Should I cut down the number of creatures for something else?
The second issue is that I feel like the curve is way to high, with a bunch of cards that cost 5+ it takes awhile for the deck to get going.
Third I have cards that I always want to add, but I am at the point where I like what I have and it hard to pick something to remove. I want to add Silumgar, the Drifting Death, Recurring Nightmar, Mob Rule, Unexpectedly Absent. And Sarkhan's Triumph or Eladarmri's Call (I think Eladarmri is still the better choice regardless of the Dragon theme here). Oh and Soothsaying just love that card, and really want to add it in.
Finally, is there anything you would add that I haven't mentioned? Is there something you think has no place in this deck?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Hey there,
I don't think you have too many dragons. You're running 12, I run 19.
- I don't really find Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius worth running in here though. Note that this is if you plan on winning with Scion/Commander Damage often. You want big hitters and you want them to do something when you tutor them up (such as have hexproof to dodge removal, or have haste so you can attack with Scion the same turn you cast him, etc)
- Dragons I'd recommend you add include Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, Vorosh, the Hunter, Quicksilver Dragon, Balefire Dragon, & Dragon Tyrant (probably the best at ending games).
I do think you probably run too many non-dragon creatures though.
- Trygon Predator: A great removal card, but it has to connect. Maybe a removal spell such as Maelstrom Pulse/Beast Within/Chaos Warp/Oblation or whatever is better? I would suggest Aura Shards but I generally don't have that many creatures entering the battlefield in this deck.
- Sphinx of the Steel Wind is just a goodstuff finisher, you have your Commander & Dragons for that!
- Narset, Enlightened Master is going to "miss" way too often
- Clone/Vesuvan Doppelganger: I don't think they are needed, but if you like them, there are better versions out there (Phyrexian Metamorph/Clever Impersonator)
- Sun Quan, Lord of Wu: All your Dragons will have evasion anyway, sometimes in more than one form.
- Arcanis the Omnipotent: I personally would prefer something like Sphinx's Revelation or Blue Sun's Zenith over this.
- Ali from Cairo: Cool card, never seen it before. I think there are probably better pillowfort options available, if you need them.
The curve for a Scion deck does tend to be high. You're already running several cheat cards to help with this (Another good one is Zirilan of the Claw btw). But I'd recommend you add Chromatic Lantern (EXCELLENT fixing), Fist of Suns (everything costs 5 at max...), and Farseek/Skyshroud Claim. Note that if you wanna play a deeper reanimator theme, you can run cards like Entomb, Buried Alive & Reanimate to speed things up. I'd recommend cards like Animate Dead & Unburial Rites anyway since Dragons are going to end up in your graveyard one way or another.
Most of those cards you want to add sound like fine additions, but note that Recurring Nightmare is banned. Also, you're running Balance, which is also banned. Is your list French? If so, a lot of my advice probably doesn't apply lol
I'd also recommend adding cards like Dragon Tempest, haste is really important in this deck - you want Scion to come down and kill someone as soon as possible. It's likely he won't survive an entire turn cycle often. Protection cards such as Boros Charm and Asceticism are also great in keeping him alive. Your list doesn't look like you're trying to win with commander damage too often, but note that this is my primary plan, so I personally think cards like Rafiq of the Many/Finest Hour & Xenagos, God of Revels are key.
There's nothing really that has "no place" in the deck - you have a vision for your deck and it's going to differ from everyone else's. I personally don't think you need cards like Bribery & Blatant Thievery cause you already have so many win conditions in your own deck in the form of Dragons and mass reanimation spells lol. It really depends on what you wanna be doing - I try to win mainly by commander damage, and then there's the reanimator plan. There's also a couple of combos in there like Scourge of Valkas + Rite of Replication; Hellkite Charger + Bear Umbra; etc, if it comes to that. Just make sure you know what your primary/secondary plan for the deck is, and you'll figure the rest out as you play the deck. Feel free to ask any other questions though, hope I could be of help
The temptation is too... great...
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
It is tempting, but Doubling Season doesn't really do much for the rest of the deck. The only other interactions include Stormbreath Dragon, Vorosh, the Hunter, Sarkhan the Mad, Coalition Relic, & Bow of Nylea, and they are quite minor. I have enough fun with Doubling Season in my Sliver Queen deck anyway =P
-1 Yosei, the Morning Star
+1 Moltensteel Dragon
Notes: Origins Update. Yosei, the Morning Star is a good Scion target in response to a removal spell, but with Quicksilver Dragon and Silumgar, the Drifting Death, I'm willing to let it go. Replacing it is Moltensteel Dragon - which is infamous in Scion decks for "comboing" with Dragon Tyrant and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.
Considerations from the actual set included Animist's Awakening, Dark Petition, Tragic Arrogance, Necromantic Summons, & Nissa's Revelation, but none made the cut.