Hey Rach, just wanted to say that your unique deck inspired me to jump into EDH using my favourite card, Tariel. A while back I made a list nearly identical to yours and have been using it occasionally. I want to remark on how this deck was difficult to pilot the first few times I've brought it out, but that was probably my lack of experience with the playstyle required (I've typically been an aggro player in other formats so it was different having to learn to sit back and sculpt my hand).
I recently took my version of the deck to a Commander tournament at my LGS. This was my first time participating so I've never played against any of the players and their decks there. As much as I wanted to stay true to the deck's playstyle as being the "reactive spectator", I decided to adjust the list slightly towards a more "referee" type. I slotted out the Runes, Gift of Estates, Reverence, and Thunderstaff for a couple board sweepers, a couple of spot removal spells, and ramp. I only suited up the deck this way based on my understanding that the local meta had more cutthroat combo decks and that the games were one hour matches. When it came down to the games I quickly learned that the tournament brought about infinite combo decks and explosive one-turn-kill-everyone type decks. The deck performed in one game but the other times were rough in that one player was going off with their infinite combos when I was tapped out.
Anyways, as much as I'd like to continue pulling out the deck and hoping to snag some turnaround wins, I'm a little disheartened to do so in that other players will eventually learn to play around the deck. However, I'm going to keep tweaking the deck to find what's right for me or to just keep the other players on their toes.
Hi soapzz,
Not to reply for Rachmiel; I have a little commentary on your post.
I too run this deck (mostly the same - just a few differences that I rotate in and out to make it a surprise)... I played at a tourney and this is NOT the deck for competitive play. When prizes are on the line, cut throat decks come out. I won on turn 3 with my Karador/Hermit Druid deck. Literally no fun was had. No thanks were given.
Hey Rach, just wanted to say that your unique deck inspired me to jump into EDH using my favourite card, Tariel. A while back I made a list nearly identical to yours and have been using it occasionally. I want to remark on how this deck was difficult to pilot the first few times I've brought it out, but that was probably my lack of experience with the playstyle required (I've typically been an aggro player in other formats so it was different having to learn to sit back and sculpt my hand).
I recently took my version of the deck to a Commander tournament at my LGS. This was my first time participating so I've never played against any of the players and their decks there. As much as I wanted to stay true to the deck's playstyle as being the "reactive spectator", I decided to adjust the list slightly towards a more "referee" type. I slotted out the Runes, Gift of Estates, Reverence, and Thunderstaff for a couple board sweepers, a couple of spot removal spells, and ramp. I only suited up the deck this way based on my understanding that the local meta had more cutthroat combo decks and that the games were one hour matches. When it came down to the games I quickly learned that the tournament brought about infinite combo decks and explosive one-turn-kill-everyone type decks. The deck performed in one game but the other times were rough in that one player was going off with their infinite combos when I was tapped out.
Anyways, as much as I'd like to continue pulling out the deck and hoping to snag some turnaround wins, I'm a little disheartened to do so in that other players will eventually learn to play around the deck. However, I'm going to keep tweaking the deck to find what's right for me or to just keep the other players on their toes.
Glad you like the deck! Yeah, it's a bit counterintuitive at first if you're used to playing aggro or being proactive, but it sounds like you've got the hang of it. As for the tournament stuff...
Hi soapzz,
Not to reply for Rachmiel; I have a little commentary on your post.
I too run this deck (mostly the same - just a few differences that I rotate in and out to make it a surprise)... I played at a tourney and this is NOT the deck for competitive play. When prizes are on the line, cut throat decks come out. I won on turn 3 with my Karador/Hermit Druid deck. Literally no fun was had. No thanks were given.
This deck is GREAT, but not for tournament play.
Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You might get lucky once every so often, but it's generally going to get stomped in competitive tournament play. You might be able to make it more competitive, but it would probably involve adding things like tutors or sacrifice some of the deck's theme. I don't think it would still be that effective though. It would help if it at least had blue in it for counters and bounce. If you can pull it off and make it viable for tournaments, I'd love to see it though.
Won a match last weekend with Necromancer's Covenant played right after a Rout (played at the end of their turn after they killed the 3rd to last player) against an Animar Deck.
if you play against a lot of creature heavy decks like I do (slivers, Animar, karador, etc) I'd advise adding Necromancer's Covenant because people who have played against you are expecting you to win with the other turn around cards. This adds a little variation.
Won a match last weekend with Necromancer's Covenant played right after a Rout (played at the end of their turn after they killed the 3rd to last player) against an Animar Deck.
if you play against a lot of creature heavy decks like I do (slivers, Animar, karador, etc) I'd advise adding Necromancer's Covenant because people who have played against you are expecting you to win with the other turn around cards. This adds a little variation.
Good call! I hadn't considered that card for the deck. Although it gives you more resources, it definitely punishes your opponents for having too many as well. Added it to the second post in the considered cards section. Definitely a card most players don't expect.
Yeah, speaking of replacing lands, I filled my Tariel deck in with the new refuge lands for her colors, but I kind of need those since my list plays around with the life total so much. I'm also definitely planning on Crackling Doom for mine, taking out all of the biggest threats on board simultaneously for three mana at instant speed sounds like it fits very well in reactionary decks. Which reminds me, I haven't updated my online list since May or June...
Have you thought about doing any more gameplay videos for Tariel on MTGO?
Alright, soooooo after a lot of thought, I've decided to retire the Primer. There are two main reasons. The first is that a lot of work/irl stuff has been going on lately that has limited my time to play MTG and I don't see that changing in the near future. More than likely, things are only going to get busier. And the other reason is that I play Magic pretty much exclusively online and I can't stand the new V4 Client at all. I will still be responding to posts but maybe not checking the thread as often. However, since I won't be updating the list or playing, I thought it would be best to retire it for now. I may take it out of retirement at some point in the future (I'd really like to do that actually), but that might be a good bit from now. I do plan on leaving the thread exactly as it is and not removing anything. Also, I wanted to thank everyone who has been playing the deck, especially trancekat and Darty17. It's been really fun to play. Nevertheless, like I said, I'll still be responding so...
Plan on adding Nomad Outpost? Could replace one of the guildgates or Tresserhorn Sinks. I also added Mardu Banner to my list, that carddraw can sometimes be your lifeline. Deflecting Palm is awesome btw, only downside is that the card itself deals the damage, so no suprise commander damage kills...
Nomad Outpost should definitely be an auto-include if you own one. And Mardu Banner works as well for some ramp and card draw, so I like both of those. For Deflecting Palm, I would likely replace Captain's Maneuver with it since it's a lot less expensive and generally that's what we want with this deck, especially if we have to fire off multiple kill cards in a single turn. I actually like Smallpox more than Crackling Doom if one of them has to be run. Crackling Doom takes out big guys and I generally like opponents having big guys (as long as they're not swinging at me). If creature killing cards are run, I think it's better to use ones that take out super utility creatures like Prophet of Kruphix that benefit this deck in no way, shape, or form.
Yeah, speaking of replacing lands, I filled my Tariel deck in with the new refuge lands for her colors, but I kind of need those since my list plays around with the life total so much. I'm also definitely planning on Crackling Doom for mine, taking out all of the biggest threats on board simultaneously for three mana at instant speed sounds like it fits very well in reactionary decks. Which reminds me, I haven't updated my online list since May or June...
Have you thought about doing any more gameplay videos for Tariel on MTGO?
Oh, I've thought about making them alright, but that's as far as I've gotten lol. Like I said above, I just haven't been able to get into the new client at all. However, if anyone wants to make videos and either commentate them or give them to me to commentate, I'll gladly put them in the thread.
Rach,
It's a pleasure to have you and your brilliant ideas on here. I am in the same boat and rarely get to play Magic, but I absolutely enjoy playing this deck when I do. Thank you for sharing it with us, and your feedback on our ideas. I will be hanging around as well in case you do add anything to any of your deck lists on here. I hope you check back here every so often in case things ease up with work and IRL stuff.
This is a fascinating deck, and I'm interested in building something similar. Has anybody been playing this or something similar and made changes with FRF, DTK, and ORI?
Very nice deck. I was wondering if you had considered tainted strike. You could use it on an opponent's big creature that is smacking someone else (not you), or when you are using backlash, captain's maneuver, mirror strike, reflect damage, or any other damage redirecting card that keeps the source of the damage intact.
Very nice deck. I was wondering if you had considered tainted strike. You could use it on an opponent's big creature that is smacking someone else (not you), or when you are using backlash, captain's maneuver, mirror strike, reflect damage, or any other damage redirecting card that keeps the source of the damage intact.
That's a good idea! Rach has been on hiatus from here and magic for a while, but I think you have a very good call with tainted strike. I intend to update my version of his deck in the next couple of months. I love playing this deck and am glad to see people still interested in it. It really is unique.
Very nice deck. I was wondering if you had considered tainted strike. You could use it on an opponent's big creature that is smacking someone else (not you), or when you are using backlash, captain's maneuver, mirror strike, reflect damage, or any other damage redirecting card that keeps the source of the damage intact.
That's a good idea! Rach has been on hiatus from here and magic for a while, but I think you have a very good call with tainted strike. I intend to update my version of his deck in the next couple of months. I love playing this deck and am glad to see people still interested in it. It really is unique.
Knowing Rach and the deck principle (one of the game videos is me as I have this deck both IRL and Online), Tainted Strike is not a card to fit the theme. Yes, it could be brutal as a cheap shot to kill one opponent, but then you will become a target. The point of this deck is to draw all attention away from you and look like a non-threat until it is just you and one other player. Then out of nowhere, you play a card to "steal" the win. SURPRISE!!!!!!!
Very nice deck. I was wondering if you had considered tainted strike. You could use it on an opponent's big creature that is smacking someone else (not you), or when you are using backlash, captain's maneuver, mirror strike, reflect damage, or any other damage redirecting card that keeps the source of the damage intact.
That's a good idea! Rach has been on hiatus from here and magic for a while, but I think you have a very good call with tainted strike. I intend to update my version of his deck in the next couple of months. I love playing this deck and am glad to see people still interested in it. It really is unique.
Knowing Rach and the deck principle (one of the game videos is me as I have this deck both IRL and Online), Tainted Strike is not a card to fit the theme. Yes, it could be brutal as a cheap shot to kill one opponent, but then you will become a target. The point of this deck is to draw all attention away from you and look like a non-threat until it is just you and one other player. Then out of nowhere, you play a card to "steal" the win. SURPRISE!!!!!!!
I humbly disagree. Tainted Strike is exactly the type of card that this deck runs to pull wins out of nowhere. Look at the list of cards - they all exploit our opponents strength. Tainted Strike does that too; it's the same as Delirium or Backlash or phthisis.
We play our turnaround cards intelligently. We don't use them until the time is right. When is it time to use phthisis for example? When we can win the game. With tainted strike, we use it when we can eliminate the 2nd player in a 4 pod to get it to where we can use our other turnaround cards to win.
Very nice deck. I was wondering if you had considered tainted strike. You could use it on an opponent's big creature that is smacking someone else (not you), or when you are using backlash, captain's maneuver, mirror strike, reflect damage, or any other damage redirecting card that keeps the source of the damage intact.
That's a good idea! Rach has been on hiatus from here and magic for a while, but I think you have a very good call with tainted strike. I intend to update my version of his deck in the next couple of months. I love playing this deck and am glad to see people still interested in it. It really is unique.
Knowing Rach and the deck principle (one of the game videos is me as I have this deck both IRL and Online), Tainted Strike is not a card to fit the theme. Yes, it could be brutal as a cheap shot to kill one opponent, but then you will become a target. The point of this deck is to draw all attention away from you and look like a non-threat until it is just you and one other player. Then out of nowhere, you play a card to "steal" the win. SURPRISE!!!!!!!
I humbly disagree. Tainted Strike is exactly the type of card that this deck runs to pull wins out of nowhere. Look at the list of cards - they all exploit our opponents strength. Tainted Strike does that too; it's the same as Delirium or Backlash or phthisis.
We play our turnaround cards intelligently. We don't use them until the time is right. When is it time to use phthisis for example? When we can win the game. With tainted strike, we use it when we can eliminate the 2nd player in a 4 pod to get it to where we can use our other turnaround cards to win.
I stand corrected. That is a very good point. Also, as mentioned earlier (and I somehow didn't see), using it on a creature and then backlashing it is evil and delicious.
I more get the idea from the "You'll Thank Me For This" philosophy that it's out-of-nowhere wins that are also unconventional and entertaining. I don't really think someone dying from a Tainted Strike is all that neat or laudable.
I more get the idea from the "You'll Thank Me For This" philosophy that it's out-of-nowhere wins that are also unconventional and entertaining. I don't really think someone dying from a Tainted Strike is all that neat or laudable.
I used to run Tainted Strike and used it to piggy-back off big, unblocked creatures to kill people out of nowhere. It got some serious salt in my meta, so I cut it. However, playing things that make people blast themselves (Backlash comes to mind) is the best.
Just dropping in to say I'm not dead. I'm still on hiatus and have been pretty busy with lots of other stuff, but I'm glad to see people are still enjoying the deck.
As far as the Tainted Strike issue, I probably would not run the card personally, but that doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't. First, it depends on your goals. If getting a compliment at the end is your objective, then I don't think it's suitable. But on the other hand, it is much more likely to win you a tournament than something like Captain's Maneuver. The first (and probably most important) test for whether I would include a card in this deck is asking, "If this card were played against me, how would I feel?"
Among many players (including myself admittedly), infect has a stigma attached to it. Whether the discontent is rational or not (I also admit my dislike of infect is purely emotional), it is my opinion that a large enough number of people feel this way about infect. So, that's the first strike against it.
The other thing I'm not a fan of is pretty subtle and may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but remember, it's all about how it makes people feel. Imagine an Izzet Musclemancer and a Simic Biomancer are having a contest. They want to see who can make a Gruul explode in the coolest way. The Simic Biomancer injects foreign bacteria into the Gruul which causes its cells to replicate repeatedly until it bursts. A passing Rakdos cultist gives this a 7 out of 10. The Izzet Musclemancer on the other hand uses his magic to make the muscles of the Gruul expand until he pops. The Rakdos cultist thinks this is funnier and gives it a 9 out of 10. Okay, that was a really dumb example, but here's the point: a "foreign element" is used by the Simic dude while the Izzet manipulates what's already there. You might ask why this matters at all. After all, functionally, they get pretty much the same result. But the result is only part of what makes the deck work. The process is just as (if not more) important.
People have funny ideas when it comes to "ownership" of their cards. People don't like their stuff being "messed with." They don't like "things being done to them." When you give their creature infect, you're "taking an action against them" in their mind. When you just redirect or double damage, it's more like the psychological equivalent of Judo where you just sidestep your opponent and let their own weight work against them. That's the real difference. One is perceived as "this was done to me" and the other is perceived as "I did this to myself." Whether someone rationally SHOULD perceive something a certain way is irrelevant. How they actually DO perceive something is what matters and what you have to adjust your deck to take advantage of. Of course, it's very easy to argue that doubling an opponent's creature's damage is "doing something to an opponent." So I won't pretend it's a black and white thing. It just depends on the opponent.
Of course, the "this was done to me" things are a LOT easier to win games with. It's much easier to beat people when you, ya know, actually DO stuff to them instead of wait for them to fall into one of the twenty-something ridiculously specific and situational traps you have. But again, that's what I think makes the deck cool. The odds are with you that in EDH, those amazing things will happen with a high enough frequency. Using Tainted Strike on a creature and then Backlashing it is preferable to having one opponent eliminate another opponent probably. You've just got to be careful about how people perceive that action and use your best judgment in all situations which could be potentially unpleasant to an opponent by asking, "How would I feel if this was done to me?"
Ps-great to see a post from you! Hope you're well.
Thanks! I've just recently decided to go back to school to get a graduate degree, so that plus work has been sucking up my time, but it's all good. Hope you're doing well too.
And, I guess the bottom line is that if you play Tainted Strike and the opponents in your meta love it, then it belongs in the deck. If they hate it, then it doesn't. It really comes down to that.
Hello, all. It's been a year and 8 months since anyone has posted anything here, but I just stumbled here and love the idea. As such, I'd like to offer my observations/opinions and a few cards.
*Note: I haven't actually played with these cards yet. I've read your primer and these suggestions are, in my opinion, in-line with your methodology and strategy.
1. Delaying Shield: Would function somewhat like Phyrexian Unlife. Downside: Doesn't combo w/ life exchange. Upside: Prevents losing to general damage and infect; provides victory if you cast a lethal Acidic Soil.
2. Orzhov Advokist: Not only dissuades people from attacking you, but also grows their creatures (which will kill them quicker with Backlash. Downside: Creature; somewhat obvious.
3. Farsight Mask: Just another pillow fort-type card. Downside: 5 mana can be a lot. Upside: Triggers for free (unlike Mind's Eye); triggers off of any damage.
Also, I'm trying to build a Queen Marchesa deck with a similar build and I'm hoping to get some feedback.
First off, what do you guys think about the monarch mechanic? Has anyone tested with this type of thing? It seems fine if I'm not the monarch as I can sit back and let my opponents beat each other up (I also get rattlesnake tokens with Marchesa out). It also gives makes Marchesa's Decree more appealing. The downside is, when I first become the monarch, I introduce a reason to attack me.
I'm also wondering about cards with the voting mechanic (mainly Coercive Portal). These cards seem effective because they give opponents some say in what happens. In this way they can fly under the radar more easily, but also may not work out as I'd like.
Lastly, I came upon a thread on tappedout.net about political cards and the author mentioned 'targeted' hug cards likeBenevolent Offering. Again, I haven't done any testing yet, but these seem similar to cards like Pulsemage Advocate in that they grant advantage to you as well as someone else, potentially gaining allies (though I concede that I trust people less when they play these cards, but I'm in the know).
This is one of my favorite decks.. I'm about to run to work, but I will respond to your comments later tonight (if all goes well). Quickly though, the idea is not to use cards/combos that lock your opponent out - one one likes that and they probably won't say 'Thank You'. I think that's why the delaying shield combo (which I do run in another deck, and no one likes it) would not be a thematic fit here. More later!
I haven't built this yet (although I consider this Primer one of the most important pieces of writing in Commander history), but gut opinion for me is that Queen Marchesa is fine but I'd be wary of running any other "Monarch" cards. Players seeing Marchesa might gear up for a crown fight; having multiple ways to take your crown back will just add fuel to the fire. Like you said, once you take your first lump the crown is a great way to make other players logically avoid you (someone else has the crown and you have 1/1 Deathtouch dorks), but I'd worry by adding stuff like Marchesa's Decree, Palace Jailer, Knights of the Black Rose, etc, that you would start to draw a lot of ire because "you're trying to fort up and abuse the Monarch mechanic".
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I recently took my version of the deck to a Commander tournament at my LGS. This was my first time participating so I've never played against any of the players and their decks there. As much as I wanted to stay true to the deck's playstyle as being the "reactive spectator", I decided to adjust the list slightly towards a more "referee" type. I slotted out the Runes, Gift of Estates, Reverence, and Thunderstaff for a couple board sweepers, a couple of spot removal spells, and ramp. I only suited up the deck this way based on my understanding that the local meta had more cutthroat combo decks and that the games were one hour matches. When it came down to the games I quickly learned that the tournament brought about infinite combo decks and explosive one-turn-kill-everyone type decks. The deck performed in one game but the other times were rough in that one player was going off with their infinite combos when I was tapped out.
Anyways, as much as I'd like to continue pulling out the deck and hoping to snag some turnaround wins, I'm a little disheartened to do so in that other players will eventually learn to play around the deck. However, I'm going to keep tweaking the deck to find what's right for me or to just keep the other players on their toes.
Not to reply for Rachmiel; I have a little commentary on your post.
I too run this deck (mostly the same - just a few differences that I rotate in and out to make it a surprise)... I played at a tourney and this is NOT the deck for competitive play. When prizes are on the line, cut throat decks come out. I won on turn 3 with my Karador/Hermit Druid deck. Literally no fun was had. No thanks were given.
This deck is GREAT, but not for tournament play.
Glad you like the deck! Yeah, it's a bit counterintuitive at first if you're used to playing aggro or being proactive, but it sounds like you've got the hang of it. As for the tournament stuff...
Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You might get lucky once every so often, but it's generally going to get stomped in competitive tournament play. You might be able to make it more competitive, but it would probably involve adding things like tutors or sacrifice some of the deck's theme. I don't think it would still be that effective though. It would help if it at least had blue in it for counters and bounce. If you can pull it off and make it viable for tournaments, I'd love to see it though.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
if you play against a lot of creature heavy decks like I do (slivers, Animar, karador, etc) I'd advise adding Necromancer's Covenant because people who have played against you are expecting you to win with the other turn around cards. This adds a little variation.
Good call! I hadn't considered that card for the deck. Although it gives you more resources, it definitely punishes your opponents for having too many as well. Added it to the second post in the considered cards section. Definitely a card most players don't expect.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
http://mythicspoiler.com/ktk/cards/deflectingpalm.html
That one definitely caught my eye. I'm thinking it might replace Captain's Maneuver possibly. Can't wait to see how the rest of the set shakes out.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Have you thought about doing any more gameplay videos for Tariel on MTGO?
Nomad Outpost should definitely be an auto-include if you own one. And Mardu Banner works as well for some ramp and card draw, so I like both of those. For Deflecting Palm, I would likely replace Captain's Maneuver with it since it's a lot less expensive and generally that's what we want with this deck, especially if we have to fire off multiple kill cards in a single turn. I actually like Smallpox more than Crackling Doom if one of them has to be run. Crackling Doom takes out big guys and I generally like opponents having big guys (as long as they're not swinging at me). If creature killing cards are run, I think it's better to use ones that take out super utility creatures like Prophet of Kruphix that benefit this deck in no way, shape, or form.
Oh, I've thought about making them alright, but that's as far as I've gotten lol. Like I said above, I just haven't been able to get into the new client at all. However, if anyone wants to make videos and either commentate them or give them to me to commentate, I'll gladly put them in the thread.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
It's a pleasure to have you and your brilliant ideas on here. I am in the same boat and rarely get to play Magic, but I absolutely enjoy playing this deck when I do. Thank you for sharing it with us, and your feedback on our ideas. I will be hanging around as well in case you do add anything to any of your deck lists on here. I hope you check back here every so often in case things ease up with work and IRL stuff.
That's a good idea! Rach has been on hiatus from here and magic for a while, but I think you have a very good call with tainted strike. I intend to update my version of his deck in the next couple of months. I love playing this deck and am glad to see people still interested in it. It really is unique.
Knowing Rach and the deck principle (one of the game videos is me as I have this deck both IRL and Online), Tainted Strike is not a card to fit the theme. Yes, it could be brutal as a cheap shot to kill one opponent, but then you will become a target. The point of this deck is to draw all attention away from you and look like a non-threat until it is just you and one other player. Then out of nowhere, you play a card to "steal" the win. SURPRISE!!!!!!!
Concerning FRF, DTK, and ORI, cards that I would consider include Archangel of Tithes for the pillowfort, Dark Petition if you need another tutor, Orbs of Warding to protect against token rush, Outpost Siege for the card draw (KHANS!), Pyromancer's Goggles for double SLAP effects (Backlash, Captain's Manuever's, and Tainted Remedy if you have a way to flash it in (could be BRUTAL),
I humbly disagree. Tainted Strike is exactly the type of card that this deck runs to pull wins out of nowhere. Look at the list of cards - they all exploit our opponents strength. Tainted Strike does that too; it's the same as Delirium or Backlash or phthisis.
We play our turnaround cards intelligently. We don't use them until the time is right. When is it time to use phthisis for example? When we can win the game. With tainted strike, we use it when we can eliminate the 2nd player in a 4 pod to get it to where we can use our other turnaround cards to win.
I stand corrected. That is a very good point. Also, as mentioned earlier (and I somehow didn't see), using it on a creature and then backlashing it is evil and delicious.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I used to run Tainted Strike and used it to piggy-back off big, unblocked creatures to kill people out of nowhere. It got some serious salt in my meta, so I cut it. However, playing things that make people blast themselves (Backlash comes to mind) is the best.
Just dropping in to say I'm not dead. I'm still on hiatus and have been pretty busy with lots of other stuff, but I'm glad to see people are still enjoying the deck.
As far as the Tainted Strike issue, I probably would not run the card personally, but that doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't. First, it depends on your goals. If getting a compliment at the end is your objective, then I don't think it's suitable. But on the other hand, it is much more likely to win you a tournament than something like Captain's Maneuver. The first (and probably most important) test for whether I would include a card in this deck is asking, "If this card were played against me, how would I feel?"
Among many players (including myself admittedly), infect has a stigma attached to it. Whether the discontent is rational or not (I also admit my dislike of infect is purely emotional), it is my opinion that a large enough number of people feel this way about infect. So, that's the first strike against it.
The other thing I'm not a fan of is pretty subtle and may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but remember, it's all about how it makes people feel. Imagine an Izzet Musclemancer and a Simic Biomancer are having a contest. They want to see who can make a Gruul explode in the coolest way. The Simic Biomancer injects foreign bacteria into the Gruul which causes its cells to replicate repeatedly until it bursts. A passing Rakdos cultist gives this a 7 out of 10. The Izzet Musclemancer on the other hand uses his magic to make the muscles of the Gruul expand until he pops. The Rakdos cultist thinks this is funnier and gives it a 9 out of 10. Okay, that was a really dumb example, but here's the point: a "foreign element" is used by the Simic dude while the Izzet manipulates what's already there. You might ask why this matters at all. After all, functionally, they get pretty much the same result. But the result is only part of what makes the deck work. The process is just as (if not more) important.
People have funny ideas when it comes to "ownership" of their cards. People don't like their stuff being "messed with." They don't like "things being done to them." When you give their creature infect, you're "taking an action against them" in their mind. When you just redirect or double damage, it's more like the psychological equivalent of Judo where you just sidestep your opponent and let their own weight work against them. That's the real difference. One is perceived as "this was done to me" and the other is perceived as "I did this to myself." Whether someone rationally SHOULD perceive something a certain way is irrelevant. How they actually DO perceive something is what matters and what you have to adjust your deck to take advantage of. Of course, it's very easy to argue that doubling an opponent's creature's damage is "doing something to an opponent." So I won't pretend it's a black and white thing. It just depends on the opponent.
Of course, the "this was done to me" things are a LOT easier to win games with. It's much easier to beat people when you, ya know, actually DO stuff to them instead of wait for them to fall into one of the twenty-something ridiculously specific and situational traps you have. But again, that's what I think makes the deck cool. The odds are with you that in EDH, those amazing things will happen with a high enough frequency. Using Tainted Strike on a creature and then Backlashing it is preferable to having one opponent eliminate another opponent probably. You've just got to be careful about how people perceive that action and use your best judgment in all situations which could be potentially unpleasant to an opponent by asking, "How would I feel if this was done to me?"
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Ps-great to see a post from you! Hope you're well.
Thanks! I've just recently decided to go back to school to get a graduate degree, so that plus work has been sucking up my time, but it's all good. Hope you're doing well too.
And, I guess the bottom line is that if you play Tainted Strike and the opponents in your meta love it, then it belongs in the deck. If they hate it, then it doesn't. It really comes down to that.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
*Note: I haven't actually played with these cards yet. I've read your primer and these suggestions are, in my opinion, in-line with your methodology and strategy.
1. Delaying Shield: Would function somewhat like Phyrexian Unlife. Downside: Doesn't combo w/ life exchange. Upside: Prevents losing to general damage and infect; provides victory if you cast a lethal Acidic Soil.
2. Orzhov Advokist: Not only dissuades people from attacking you, but also grows their creatures (which will kill them quicker with Backlash. Downside: Creature; somewhat obvious.
3. Farsight Mask: Just another pillow fort-type card. Downside: 5 mana can be a lot. Upside: Triggers for free (unlike Mind's Eye); triggers off of any damage.
Also, I'm trying to build a Queen Marchesa deck with a similar build and I'm hoping to get some feedback.
First off, what do you guys think about the monarch mechanic? Has anyone tested with this type of thing? It seems fine if I'm not the monarch as I can sit back and let my opponents beat each other up (I also get rattlesnake tokens with Marchesa out). It also gives makes Marchesa's Decree more appealing. The downside is, when I first become the monarch, I introduce a reason to attack me.
I'm also wondering about cards with the voting mechanic (mainly Coercive Portal). These cards seem effective because they give opponents some say in what happens. In this way they can fly under the radar more easily, but also may not work out as I'd like.
Lastly, I came upon a thread on tappedout.net about political cards and the author mentioned 'targeted' hug cards likeBenevolent Offering. Again, I haven't done any testing yet, but these seem similar to cards like Pulsemage Advocate in that they grant advantage to you as well as someone else, potentially gaining allies (though I concede that I trust people less when they play these cards, but I'm in the know).
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG