Thanks for your suggestions! I think Teysa will probably replace dread just because I have a foil of her already. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker will probably replace No Mercy as well. I also just snagged a foil copy of Wild Ricochet that will also make it in. The idea of replacing Dong with delirium is also an attractive choice. Paralectric Feedback is something I would really consider because of one guy who has a couple of Enduring Ideal decks. Flashing back increasing vengeance would be good times with that. Lastly, I also have a pretty sexy fnm promo of Dictate of the Twin Gods that Id like to stick somewhere. What would you take out for them? Gunna have to keep my eyes open with Kiyomaro, but dawn charm or mana tithe might end up going in. Earnest Fellowship is something I never really thought of that would hit Zur really hard. That alone makes it good.
Ironically enough I also have a High Priest of Penance! Thank you bad Orzhov standard deck! Anyway I would still like to force the Dictate in. Anything been underperforming recently?
Ironically enough I also have a High Priest of Penance! Thank you bad Orzhov standard deck! Anyway I would still like to force the Dictate in. Anything been underperforming recently?
I'd say that Blood Oath is the most situational kill spell. You do play in a meta with an enchantment (aura) and artifact deck though, but that's probably the one I'd go with to put in Dictate unless you think you'd get a ton of use out of it. If not that, then either Divine Deflection or Captain's Maneuver depending upon which one you think would be less useful in your meta (Deflection costs less but prevents, Maneuver costs more but redirects).
Also, how crucial is Tariel? Could Oros sub, or is that unthinkable?
You could sub in Oros easily. Tariel is really just there for the colors. Kaalia provides pretty much no benefit to this deck, so it would be between Tariel and Oros. I chose Tariel since I thought the ability to reanimate stuff at random might be more useful than sweeping tokens. Usually this deck is fine with and wants opponents to have large token armies (Crawlspace, Rakdos Charm, Batwing Brume, Hissing Miasma, etc.). You can still use Oros though since the deck is supposed to work with or without Tariel.
Nah. After really thinking about it, Tariel is going to be seriously worth the price. There are an abundance of good creatures in graveyards, whereas in my meta really the only tokens are Prossh kobolds. Thanks for all the help, and when I do buy the deck, Ill tell you how it performs!
Nah. After really thinking about it, Tariel is going to be seriously worth the price. There are an abundance of good creatures in graveyards, whereas in my meta really the only tokens are Prossh kobolds. Thanks for all the help, and when I do buy the deck, Ill tell you how it performs!
Just a very small update in the second post for the latest set, Conspiracy. It doesn't have a lot for Tariel (most sets won't), but it does look like a blast to play!
I've viewed your list several times over the past year and I finally caved in and built the deck. I made a couple changes due to budget reasons (although I really shouldn't say that considering I foiled out everything that could be gotten in foil at a reasonable price since the deck was so cheap!), namely:
Dread => Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
No Mercy => Not sure, just generally replaced it with more turnaround effects I think
Dong => Delirium
Forcefield => Again, just generally replaced it
Mystifying Maze => Maze of Ith (had one laying around)
Hallowed Burial => Rout (pulled this from a Conspiracy draft the other day)
Mind's Eye => Generally replaced it (thinking about putting Erebos or something in this slot)
Weathered Wayfarer => Don't really have an excuse here, but I just didn't want to spend money on this for some reason.
Added a Boseiju as well.
Some of these pieces are probably pretty critical. I'll try to pick up a No Mercy alternative like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker in trade and likely a Weathered Wayfarer at some point, or some other card that serves the same function like Tithe or Land Tax.
I can't wait to test this deck on people at my LGS. Everyone there runs crazy overpowered stuff and it gets really boring. I'm ready to shout "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" while killing them with their own Eldrazi or Twin tokens.
I've viewed your list several times over the past year and I finally caved in and built the deck. I made a couple changes due to budget reasons (although I really shouldn't say that considering I foiled out everything that could be gotten in foil at a reasonable price since the deck was so cheap!), namely:
Dread => Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
No Mercy => Not sure, just generally replaced it with more turnaround effects I think
Dong => Delirium
Forcefield => Again, just generally replaced it
Mystifying Maze => Maze of Ith (had one laying around)
Hallowed Burial => Rout (pulled this from a Conspiracy draft the other day)
Mind's Eye => Generally replaced it (thinking about putting Erebos or something in this slot)
Weathered Wayfarer => Don't really have an excuse here, but I just didn't want to spend money on this for some reason.
Added a Boseiju as well.
Some of these pieces are probably pretty critical. I'll try to pick up a No Mercy alternative like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker in trade and likely a Weathered Wayfarer at some point, or some other card that serves the same function like Tithe or Land Tax.
I can't wait to test this deck on people at my LGS. Everyone there runs crazy overpowered stuff and it gets really boring. I'm ready to shout "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" while killing them with their own Eldrazi or Twin tokens.
As long as you're doing mostly lateral swaps like Dong for Delirium, it should be fine. Boseiju will definitely help if your meta needs it. Hopefully it provides a fun time, and let me know how it goes!
to help with the turnaround cards that punish them for having too many creatures?
I generally don't like to use stuff like that for the same reason I don't use tutors or things like Wall of Blood with Soul Conduit or Repay in Kind. It makes the victory more likely but less amazing. In this case, it's not as amazing since you "encourage" them to overextend instead of letting it be their own choice completely. It also makes you an active player who is trying to manipulate and influence the board state (which is fine, it just depends on your style of play) as opposed to a passive player who really wants nothing to do with the board state if they can help it while waiting for the best time to strike. It's kind of a personal preference though, so if it's more fun for you to give tokens (selectively or not) then I think it would be fine to do.
Played my version of your deck last night (won by the way. Repay in Kind (4 Life) + Rakdos Charm (to the Brago deck killed him) + sent four 2/2 flying vampire tokens from Bloodline Keeper to the last 2 players who couldn't block flying (thanks to Brago bouncing all their flyers away.)
And I started to really look at Tariel and how he really serves little to no function to the deck's strategy and could easily be replaced. But since the other 2 options aren't much better in RWB...I thought about any 5 color general to splash in like 5-10ish other cards and just swap out lands for ones that make any color.
Played my version of your deck last night (won by the way. Repay in Kind (4 Life) + Rakdos Charm (to the Brago deck killed him) + sent four 2/2 flying vampire tokens from Bloodline Keeper to the last 2 players who couldn't block flying (thanks to Brago bouncing all their flyers away.)
And I started to really look at Tariel and how he really serves little to no function to the deck's strategy and could easily be replaced. But since the other 2 options aren't much better in RWB...I thought about any 5 color general to splash in like 5-10ish other cards and just swap out lands for ones that make any color.
Can't think of good turnaround cards in other colors tho
thoughts?
Glad it worked well! Yeah, Tariel doesn't provide a whole lot herself.
I never wrote up anything for five color, but there is a section in the main post talking about a RWU and RGW version of the deck which I really recommend reading if you haven't already. It's called "Other Commanders". It covers a RW version too. From Blue for turnaround cards, you get Cerebral Vortex, Swerve, and Essence Backlash. Blue also gives access to Teferi's Moat, Cloud Cover, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, and Isperia, Supreme Judge.
I'm not a big fan of Edric since I feel like it would just be giving cards away, but if your version has more creatures then it might work. I also don't care for Rite of Replication since I don't like having creatures myself if possible because it makes me look dangerous sometimes. Gahiji is cool and would be the commander of the Naya version. I prefer Baleful Strix over the Recluse, Archer, Gomazoa, Wall of Denial, and Fog Bank since it replaces itself. Diviner Spirit is funny but I probably wouldn't use it since it involves attacking someone. Counterspells are fine as long as you only use them to stop things that would end the game. Or countering something that would destroy your defenses is fine too. You just don't want to use a counterspell if you really don't have to. Ramp is always welcome as long as you're not stepping on your own toes with Acidic Soil. Cards like Sphinx's Revelation that are instant speed and can be played at end of turn seem like the kind of Blue cards that would really help this deck.
I just have to say, this entire primer is mind-blowing and awesome. I have never wanted to make a Commander deck more badly than I want to make this one now, and it has made me seriously reevaluate my Zedruu deck, and my decks in general. Thank you
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I'll have to make my way back to page 1 and check out that section that I some how overlooked. Thanks for the suggestions I'll see if I have anything worth sharing after some battles with a 5 color general running the same ideals as your Tariel.
I just have to say, this entire primer is mind-blowing and awesome. I have never wanted to make a Commander deck more badly than I want to make this one now, and it has made me seriously reevaluate my Zedruu deck, and my decks in general. Thank you
I'll have to make my way back to page 1 and check out that section that I some how overlooked. Thanks for the suggestions I'll see if I have anything worth sharing after some battles with a 5 color general running the same ideals as your Tariel.
Ok, I have been glancing at this list for a while now, and I have taken a look at your you-tube videos and I am compelled to tell you that I really enjoy your commander play style.
I'm hoping to run a list similar to yours and will post it and my results playing it eventually, if your interested :), though I think mine will attempt to be a pyrohemia/pestilence/et-al package... using things like darksteel mutation to keep it around. And I realize that is probably too aggressive of a strategy, but I want to put a personal spin on it and see what comes of it.
p.s. I was wondering about your thoughts on Sydri, Galvanic Genius and a good play-style with her?
Ok, I have been glancing at this list for a while now, and I have taken a look at your you-tube videos and I am compelled to tell you that I really enjoy your commander play style.
I'm hoping to run a list similar to yours and will post it and my results playing it eventually, if your interested :), though I think mine will attempt to be a pyrohemia/pestilence/et-al package... using things like darksteel mutation to keep it around. And I realize that is probably too aggressive of a strategy, but I want to put a personal spin on it and see what comes of it.
p.s. I was wondering about your thoughts on Sydri, Galvanic Genius and a good play-style with her?
Thank you very much! I'm always interested in how people make their own take on the deck, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing about the results if you'll share them. As far as a playstyle for Sydri that seems fun:
1. Voltron where the equipments double as beaters.
2. Focus on turning other things (enchantments or lands) into artifacts (and then into creatures) and then playing cards that make keeping creatures around difficult.
3. Pingers like Acorn Catapult, Bullwhip, Armageddon Clock, Caltrops, or Ankh of Mishra taking advantage of the lifelink and deathtouch.
4. Any combination of the above.
I wanted to share some new cards that I've had success with the past few months while playing this deck, in hopes that others may find it useful when playing within their pods.
This card is super fun and very effective at dissuading players from attacking you in multiplayer games, while not necessarily making you a target. It allows you to "put the blame" on another opponent if someone decides to attack you. Our deck also doesn't play many creatures so it's rare that our creatures get chosen to receive the damage from the attack.
This card is a very effective repeatable fog. I find that in most of my games I'm constantly just looking for things to do with my mana instead of just dumping enchantments/artifacts on the field at risk of getting blown out by a board wipe. This lets me constantly look like a poor target to attack to most of my opponents and doesn't make you waste a card to do so.
The deck continues to impress my usual pod of EDH players along with new ones I meet every now and then. I'm always having a blast playing it in casual games as opposed to playing it when I don't want to "try hard" or think very much with my competitive decks. My friends are completely bewildered at how I can enjoy playing the deck when most of my turns consist of "land, pass" but as long as i'm staying busy activating my Journeyer's Kite or doing something else, i'm having fun just standing by watching... and waiting.
Hope you all continue to have as much fun and success playing this deck as I have!
I wanted to share some new cards that I've had success with the past few months while playing this deck, in hopes that others may find it useful when playing within their pods.
This card is super fun and very effective at dissuading players from attacking you in multiplayer games, while not necessarily making you a target. It allows you to "put the blame" on another opponent if someone decides to attack you. Our deck also doesn't play many creatures so it's rare that our creatures get chosen to receive the damage from the attack.
This card is a very effective repeatable fog. I find that in most of my games I'm constantly just looking for things to do with my mana instead of just dumping enchantments/artifacts on the field at risk of getting blown out by a board wipe. This lets me constantly look like a poor target to attack to most of my opponents and doesn't make you waste a card to do so.
The deck continues to impress my usual pod of EDH players along with new ones I meet every now and then. I'm always having a blast playing it in casual games as opposed to playing it when I don't want to "try hard" or think very much with my competitive decks. My friends are completely bewildered at how I can enjoy playing the deck when most of my turns consist of "land, pass" but as long as i'm staying busy activating my Journeyer's Kite or doing something else, i'm having fun just standing by watching... and waiting.
Hope you all continue to have as much fun and success playing this deck as I have!
Glad it's going well!
Nova Pentacle actually used to be in a version of this deck before I made the thread. The online meta seemed to become more competitive over time though, and I decided to ditch it for something more effective. It's a really fun card though that usually gets people saying, "Wait, it does what?" To clarify the card for those of you who have never seen it before, imagine that there are players A, B, C, and D. We're player A. Player B attacks us with a 5/5. In response, we activate the pentacle and choose player C. Player C decides to deal the damage to player D's Prophet of Kruphix, killing it.
Gossamer Chains is an interesting card because it causes people to have to over-commit resources (attackers in this case) when targeting you which is something people don't like to do. So it may do more to prevent people from swinging at you by sitting there than actually using it. While it can't evade a board wipe since you have to target an unblocked attacker, it may not be on the board at the moment when someone wipes it. And yeah, being repeatable is always nice. I put both of those cards under the "Cards I've Considered" section.
Also,
Having RfunR just standing by WwatchingW...and BwaitingB.
could easily be a tagline for the deck and is definitely something only someone who has played the deck a lot would say. That definitely brought a smile to my face because it really captures the spirit of the deck. Of course the "...and waiting" part is the great punchline you say with a knowing look in your eyes. Again, glad the deck has been providing some good times, and I'll be sure to keep looking for new cards as new sets come out!
Looking into making some variant of this deck for my playgroup, so thought I'd post up some questions as I come across them.
Harsh Justice seems like a possible inclusion even though it doesn't fog the creatures. Not sure if you view it in the same mold as Eye for an Eye.
Reverence won't have much impact in my playgroup. Wondering if there is some other options for this slot? Maybe Aurification or Silent Arbiter or something I haven't considered...?
I face Nekusar, the Mindrazer frequently so I'm hoping to add a few cards to combat him without having it viewed as hate or too narrow. Therefore, Guardian Seraph is a card I've been looking at as a cheaper form of Urza's Armor. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker maybe. Not sure if there are any other cards you would recommend?
Looking into making some variant of this deck for my playgroup, so thought I'd post up some questions as I come across them.
Harsh Justice seems like a possible inclusion even though it doesn't fog the creatures. Not sure if you view it in the same mold as Eye for an Eye.
Reverence won't have much impact in my playgroup. Wondering if there is some other options for this slot? Maybe Aurification or Silent Arbiter or something I haven't considered...?
I face Nekusar, the Mindrazer frequently so I'm hoping to add a few cards to combat him without having it viewed as hate or too narrow. Therefore, Guardian Seraph is a card I've been looking at as a cheaper form of Urza's Armor. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker maybe. Not sure if there are any other cards you would recommend?
Council's Judgment plays well against voltron and can serve as some political removal. Looking for an excuse to run it in EDH.
Wondering if recursion in the form of Replenish or Sun Titan is worth running?
Great work on the primer and thanks for any help you can provide.
Thanks! I actually did have Eye for an Eye in the deck at one point. However, as the deck evolved, I cut it for two reasons. The first is that ideally we only want to play our turnaround cards on one turn if possible: the last turn. However, if you're playing paper magic, it won't be a surprise anymore anyway. The second reason though was that since some of the turnaround cards hurts us potentially like Acidic Soil or Rakdos Charm, we really value keeping our life total higher than the other players. So while Batwing Brume may not deal as much damage as Harsh Justice, the fog effect is pretty important. They're both fun cards though, especially Harsh Justice, so if you can afford to include them, you can.
One of the posters above said that they were having luck with Gossamer Chains, so that could replace Reverence. While I'm not a huge fan of it, Ghostly Prison would also work. Out of those two, I'd much rather use Aurification. Silent Arbiter is actually counterproductive to the deck because it limits what your opponents can do to each other, and we actually want a lot of combat going on...just not directed at us.
For dealing with Nekusar, the Mindrazer, I like both Urza's Armor and Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker. I have an aversion to creatures in general with this deck, but Guardian Seraph could be okay. And both the Armor and Seraph will protect you from more than just Nekusar such as some combo decks or things like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or Pestilence which is nice. You also actually already would have No Mercy and Dread in the deck both of which kill Nekusar as well. All of the above are probably good options. It just depends if you want Nekusar to stick around and hit other people or you want to kill him before he gets going. If you want to take out a card to fit more of those in, Thunderstaff would be the one to cut. If Reverence isn't good in your meta, Thunderstaff potentially might have limited upside as well and fulfills a similar function to the cards above.
To replace Forcefield, I like them in the order you posted them: Story Circle, Righteous Aura, Nova Pentacle, Pentagram of the Ages. While Righteous Aura is more versatile than Story Circle, I really don't like that you have to pay life for it since we don't have a ton of ways to replenish life in this deck. Nova Pentacle is there if you want to have fun. Pentagram is just too expensive for my tastes.
Council's Judgment will be good in the deck, but the only things you'll ever want to take out with it are super utility creatures like Prophet of Kruphix which will never deal major damage to anyone but provide the card's owner a significant advantage.
Replenish might be okay if you have a meta where enchantments get destroyed a lot. However, I'd skip Sun Titan entirely because it's a great target to steal, reanimate, or clone, and you have to attack someone in order to use it effectively which we really don't want to do. Skull of Orm might be okay for some recursion but it's a bit expensive. It will give you something to do with extra mana though.
That looks good. Best match ups should be Talrand, Elesh Norn, and Omnath. The hardest ones will be Oloro and the colorless guys probably. Try not to get alone with them at the end. Good luck and hope it makes for a good time!
You could do:
Forcefield->High Priest of Penance
Dong->Delirium
No Mercy->Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Lightning Greaves->Parallectric Feedback
Dread->Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
I'd keep the rest of the pricier cards if you can since a lot of them are card advantage engines or ramp. And no prob!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
My Peasant-Cube-in-Progress http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/15395
My Peasant-Cube-in-Progress http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/15395
I'd say that Blood Oath is the most situational kill spell. You do play in a meta with an enchantment (aura) and artifact deck though, but that's probably the one I'd go with to put in Dictate unless you think you'd get a ton of use out of it. If not that, then either Divine Deflection or Captain's Maneuver depending upon which one you think would be less useful in your meta (Deflection costs less but prevents, Maneuver costs more but redirects).
You could sub in Oros easily. Tariel is really just there for the colors. Kaalia provides pretty much no benefit to this deck, so it would be between Tariel and Oros. I chose Tariel since I thought the ability to reanimate stuff at random might be more useful than sweeping tokens. Usually this deck is fine with and wants opponents to have large token armies (Crawlspace, Rakdos Charm, Batwing Brume, Hissing Miasma, etc.). You can still use Oros though since the deck is supposed to work with or without Tariel.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
My Peasant-Cube-in-Progress http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/15395
No problem and hope it goes well!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Dread => Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
No Mercy => Not sure, just generally replaced it with more turnaround effects I think
Dong => Delirium
Forcefield => Again, just generally replaced it
Mystifying Maze => Maze of Ith (had one laying around)
Hallowed Burial => Rout (pulled this from a Conspiracy draft the other day)
Mind's Eye => Generally replaced it (thinking about putting Erebos or something in this slot)
Weathered Wayfarer => Don't really have an excuse here, but I just didn't want to spend money on this for some reason.
Added a Boseiju as well.
Some of these pieces are probably pretty critical. I'll try to pick up a No Mercy alternative like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker in trade and likely a Weathered Wayfarer at some point, or some other card that serves the same function like Tithe or Land Tax.
I can't wait to test this deck on people at my LGS. Everyone there runs crazy overpowered stuff and it gets really boring. I'm ready to shout "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" while killing them with their own Eldrazi or Twin tokens.
As long as you're doing mostly lateral swaps like Dong for Delirium, it should be fine. Boseiju will definitely help if your meta needs it. Hopefully it provides a fun time, and let me know how it goes!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
and others
to help with the turnaround cards that punish them for having too many creatures?
I generally don't like to use stuff like that for the same reason I don't use tutors or things like Wall of Blood with Soul Conduit or Repay in Kind. It makes the victory more likely but less amazing. In this case, it's not as amazing since you "encourage" them to overextend instead of letting it be their own choice completely. It also makes you an active player who is trying to manipulate and influence the board state (which is fine, it just depends on your style of play) as opposed to a passive player who really wants nothing to do with the board state if they can help it while waiting for the best time to strike. It's kind of a personal preference though, so if it's more fun for you to give tokens (selectively or not) then I think it would be fine to do.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
And I started to really look at Tariel and how he really serves little to no function to the deck's strategy and could easily be replaced. But since the other 2 options aren't much better in RWB...I thought about any 5 color general to splash in like 5-10ish other cards and just swap out lands for ones that make any color.
Counterspells
Green mana ramp
Can't think of good turnaround cards in other colors tho
thoughts?
Glad it worked well! Yeah, Tariel doesn't provide a whole lot herself.
I never wrote up anything for five color, but there is a section in the main post talking about a RWU and RGW version of the deck which I really recommend reading if you haven't already. It's called "Other Commanders". It covers a RW version too. From Blue for turnaround cards, you get Cerebral Vortex, Swerve, and Essence Backlash. Blue also gives access to Teferi's Moat, Cloud Cover, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, and Isperia, Supreme Judge.
Green sucks with turnaround besides for Storm Seeker, but it has some awesome defensive cards like Dawnstrider, Constant Mists, Spike Weaver, Radiant Kavu, Briar Patch, Privileged Position, and especially Arboria. Chord of Calling plus Stormbreath Dragon is expensive but funny. Praetor's Counsel may help too.
I'm not a big fan of Edric since I feel like it would just be giving cards away, but if your version has more creatures then it might work. I also don't care for Rite of Replication since I don't like having creatures myself if possible because it makes me look dangerous sometimes. Gahiji is cool and would be the commander of the Naya version. I prefer Baleful Strix over the Recluse, Archer, Gomazoa, Wall of Denial, and Fog Bank since it replaces itself. Diviner Spirit is funny but I probably wouldn't use it since it involves attacking someone. Counterspells are fine as long as you only use them to stop things that would end the game. Or countering something that would destroy your defenses is fine too. You just don't want to use a counterspell if you really don't have to. Ramp is always welcome as long as you're not stepping on your own toes with Acidic Soil. Cards like Sphinx's Revelation that are instant speed and can be played at end of turn seem like the kind of Blue cards that would really help this deck.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I'll have to make my way back to page 1 and check out that section that I some how overlooked. Thanks for the suggestions I'll see if I have anything worth sharing after some battles with a 5 color general running the same ideals as your Tariel.
Haha, thanks! Glad you liked it!
Sounds good! Hopefully it goes well!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
I'm hoping to run a list similar to yours and will post it and my results playing it eventually, if your interested :), though I think mine will attempt to be a pyrohemia/pestilence/et-al package... using things like darksteel mutation to keep it around. And I realize that is probably too aggressive of a strategy, but I want to put a personal spin on it and see what comes of it.
p.s. I was wondering about your thoughts on Sydri, Galvanic Genius and a good play-style with her?
Thank you very much! I'm always interested in how people make their own take on the deck, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing about the results if you'll share them. As far as a playstyle for Sydri that seems fun:
1. Voltron where the equipments double as beaters.
2. Focus on turning other things (enchantments or lands) into artifacts (and then into creatures) and then playing cards that make keeping creatures around difficult.
3. Pingers like Acorn Catapult, Bullwhip, Armageddon Clock, Caltrops, or Ankh of Mishra taking advantage of the lifelink and deathtouch.
4. Any combination of the above.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Nova Pentacle
This card is super fun and very effective at dissuading players from attacking you in multiplayer games, while not necessarily making you a target. It allows you to "put the blame" on another opponent if someone decides to attack you. Our deck also doesn't play many creatures so it's rare that our creatures get chosen to receive the damage from the attack.
Gossamer Chains
This card is a very effective repeatable fog. I find that in most of my games I'm constantly just looking for things to do with my mana instead of just dumping enchantments/artifacts on the field at risk of getting blown out by a board wipe. This lets me constantly look like a poor target to attack to most of my opponents and doesn't make you waste a card to do so.
The deck continues to impress my usual pod of EDH players along with new ones I meet every now and then. I'm always having a blast playing it in casual games as opposed to playing it when I don't want to "try hard" or think very much with my competitive decks. My friends are completely bewildered at how I can enjoy playing the deck when most of my turns consist of "land, pass" but as long as i'm staying busy activating my Journeyer's Kite or doing something else, i'm having fun just standing by watching... and waiting.
Hope you all continue to have as much fun and success playing this deck as I have!
Glad it's going well!
Nova Pentacle actually used to be in a version of this deck before I made the thread. The online meta seemed to become more competitive over time though, and I decided to ditch it for something more effective. It's a really fun card though that usually gets people saying, "Wait, it does what?" To clarify the card for those of you who have never seen it before, imagine that there are players A, B, C, and D. We're player A. Player B attacks us with a 5/5. In response, we activate the pentacle and choose player C. Player C decides to deal the damage to player D's Prophet of Kruphix, killing it.
Gossamer Chains is an interesting card because it causes people to have to over-commit resources (attackers in this case) when targeting you which is something people don't like to do. So it may do more to prevent people from swinging at you by sitting there than actually using it. While it can't evade a board wipe since you have to target an unblocked attacker, it may not be on the board at the moment when someone wipes it. And yeah, being repeatable is always nice. I put both of those cards under the "Cards I've Considered" section.
Also, could easily be a tagline for the deck and is definitely something only someone who has played the deck a lot would say. That definitely brought a smile to my face because it really captures the spirit of the deck. Of course the "...and waiting" part is the great punchline you say with a knowing look in your eyes. Again, glad the deck has been providing some good times, and I'll be sure to keep looking for new cards as new sets come out!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Harsh Justice seems like a possible inclusion even though it doesn't fog the creatures. Not sure if you view it in the same mold as Eye for an Eye.
Reverence won't have much impact in my playgroup. Wondering if there is some other options for this slot? Maybe Aurification or Silent Arbiter or something I haven't considered...?
I face Nekusar, the Mindrazer frequently so I'm hoping to add a few cards to combat him without having it viewed as hate or too narrow. Therefore, Guardian Seraph is a card I've been looking at as a cheaper form of Urza's Armor. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker maybe. Not sure if there are any other cards you would recommend?
Can't afford Forcefield and I face a couple voltron decks in my group (all hexproof as well). Looking at Story Circle, Righteous Aura, Nova Pentacle, Pentagram of the Ages. Any suggestions?
Council's Judgment plays well against voltron and can serve as some political removal. Looking for an excuse to run it in EDH.
Wondering if recursion in the form of Replenish or Sun Titan is worth running?
Great work on the primer and thanks for any help you can provide.
Thanks! I actually did have Eye for an Eye in the deck at one point. However, as the deck evolved, I cut it for two reasons. The first is that ideally we only want to play our turnaround cards on one turn if possible: the last turn. However, if you're playing paper magic, it won't be a surprise anymore anyway. The second reason though was that since some of the turnaround cards hurts us potentially like Acidic Soil or Rakdos Charm, we really value keeping our life total higher than the other players. So while Batwing Brume may not deal as much damage as Harsh Justice, the fog effect is pretty important. They're both fun cards though, especially Harsh Justice, so if you can afford to include them, you can.
One of the posters above said that they were having luck with Gossamer Chains, so that could replace Reverence. While I'm not a huge fan of it, Ghostly Prison would also work. Out of those two, I'd much rather use Aurification. Silent Arbiter is actually counterproductive to the deck because it limits what your opponents can do to each other, and we actually want a lot of combat going on...just not directed at us.
For dealing with Nekusar, the Mindrazer, I like both Urza's Armor and Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker. I have an aversion to creatures in general with this deck, but Guardian Seraph could be okay. And both the Armor and Seraph will protect you from more than just Nekusar such as some combo decks or things like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or Pestilence which is nice. You also actually already would have No Mercy and Dread in the deck both of which kill Nekusar as well. All of the above are probably good options. It just depends if you want Nekusar to stick around and hit other people or you want to kill him before he gets going. If you want to take out a card to fit more of those in, Thunderstaff would be the one to cut. If Reverence isn't good in your meta, Thunderstaff potentially might have limited upside as well and fulfills a similar function to the cards above.
To replace Forcefield, I like them in the order you posted them: Story Circle, Righteous Aura, Nova Pentacle, Pentagram of the Ages. While Righteous Aura is more versatile than Story Circle, I really don't like that you have to pay life for it since we don't have a ton of ways to replenish life in this deck. Nova Pentacle is there if you want to have fun. Pentagram is just too expensive for my tastes.
Council's Judgment will be good in the deck, but the only things you'll ever want to take out with it are super utility creatures like Prophet of Kruphix which will never deal major damage to anyone but provide the card's owner a significant advantage.
Replenish might be okay if you have a meta where enchantments get destroyed a lot. However, I'd skip Sun Titan entirely because it's a great target to steal, reanimate, or clone, and you have to attack someone in order to use it effectively which we really don't want to do. Skull of Orm might be okay for some recursion but it's a bit expensive. It will give you something to do with extra mana though.
Hope that helps and good luck!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
(Believe I'm currently at 101 cards with 2 sideboard options, so need to make at least one cut)
7 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Creatures
1 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Burnished Hart
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Guardian Seraph
6 Dread
Enchantments
1 Land Tax
2 Righteous Aura
2 Rune of Protection: Red
2 Rune of Protection: Green
3 Hissing Miasma
3 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Story Circle
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Blood Reckoning
4 No Mercy
4 Aurification
4 Greed
5 Righteous Cause
Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Journeyer's Kite
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Boros Signet
2 Sun Droplet
3 Thunderstaff
3 Crawlspace
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Nova Pentacle
5 Mirari
5 Norn's Annex
5 Gilded Lotus
5 Mind's Eye
6 Soul Conduit
6 Staff of Nin
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tithe
1 Divine Deflection
2 Captain's Maneuver
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Batwing Brume
2 Shattering Pulse
2 Allay
2 Increasing Vengeance
2 Reverberate
3 Boros Fury-Shield
3 Delirium
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Backlash
3 Mirror Strike
4 Sudden Impact
4 Blood Oath
5 Reflect Damage
Sorceries
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Acidic Soil
3 Council's Judgment
4 Stronghold Discipline
5 Hallowed Burial
6 Merciless Eviction
7 Repay in Kind
7 Phthisis
Lands
10 Plains
8 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Kor Haven
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Command Tower
SideBoard:
1 Parallectric Feedback
1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
7 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Color Fixing
1 Sol Ring
1 Land Tax
1 Tithe
1 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Journeyer's Kite
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Boros Signet
3 Burnished Hart
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Gilded Lotus
Card Advantage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Greed
5 Mind's Eye
6 Staff of Nin
Defense
2 Sun Droplet
2 Righteous Aura
2 Rune of Protection: Red
2 Rune of Protection: Green
3 Story Circle
3 Crawlspace
3 Thunderstaff
3 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Guardian Seraph
4 Nova Pentacle
5 Righteous Cause
3 Hissing Miasma
4 Blood Reckoning
4 No Mercy
4 Aurification
5 Norn's Annex
6 Dread
Turn-abouts
1 Divine Deflection
2 Captain's Maneuver
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Batwing Brume
3 Delirium
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Backlash
3 Mirror Strike
3 Boros Fury-Shield
3 Acidic Soil
4 Sudden Impact
4 Blood Oath
4 Stronghold Discipline
5 Reflect Damage
6 Soul Conduit
7 Repay in Kind
7 Phthisis
Copy Effects
2 Increasing Vengeance
2 Reverberate
5 Mirari
Removal
2 Shattering Pulse
2 Allay
3 Council's Judgment
5 Hallowed Burial
6 Merciless Eviction
10 Plains
8 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Kor Haven
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Command Tower
SideBoard:
1 Parallectric Feedback
1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
My typical meta just for reference:
Common opponents:
Talrand, Sky Summoner: tempo/tokens
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite: tokens
Norin the Wary: chaos-control/tokens
Omnath, Locus of Mana: voltron and big-x spells/creatures
Thada Adel, Acquisitor: steal/eldrazi
Rakdos, Lord of Riots: big creatures
Uril, the Miststalker: voltron
Rosheen Meanderer / Wort, the Raidmother: big mana X-spells
Xenagos, God of Revels: trample/flying aggro
Nekusar, the Mindrazer: chainsaw (wheels)
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: control/slow-combo
Sliver Queen: tribal aggro
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Karn, Silver Golem: mono-brown/combo
That looks good. Best match ups should be Talrand, Elesh Norn, and Omnath. The hardest ones will be Oloro and the colorless guys probably. Try not to get alone with them at the end. Good luck and hope it makes for a good time!
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU