Just want to say that your Toshiro deck really inspired me to try to rebuild him. Using your decklist, with a few adjustments, I have had some amazing games with him and the deck in both 1v1 and Multiplayer 3's and 4's. Like, really, this deck is just too fun once all the right cards are in the deck.
Thanks, I just recently retrieved all my surplus cards from storage so hopefully I can get my list running and get some feedback on the build myself here shortly.
I am glad that the build is working well for you though. Its obviously got some issues with grave hate but hopefully keeping out of over committing to it can work but it will always be a problem with how heavily I have pushed on the graveyard in the build currently.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Slaughter I really do like the spell, but I really dislike removal with the restriction of non-black creatures. To be honest, I think the removal I am already running is superior to it because they are much cheaper to cast. With Toshiro I can potentially use them twice each as well. Buyback is nice but it really doesn't interact with him either and I don't like paying 4 mana + 4 life to kill non-black only creatures.
i know its pretty much useless on its own, but adds an interesting twist to the deck, if you can find room to add it to the list. Thran Lens it would pair nicely with Slaughter however, im trying to figure out different cards to pair the lens with. it will nullify the "nonblack clause" though making Slaughter much more lethal.
as far as an extended discard package and one that might fuel the decks progression and draw power as well. instead of using Bottomless Pit with Geth's Grimoire, try Anvil of Bogardan with Geth's Grimoire, because in a sense it can act like a one sided howling mine. while your opponents get the options to discard, you provide mild less politically compromising disruption to fuel your own deck and boost the value of discarding creature cards on either your or your opponents' sides.
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if you would like to strengthen this package even further though, you could add in Liliana of the Veil with Geth's Grimoire would be like a once a turn Syphon Mind, you could also add the really "unfun" card Words of Waste which combined with the grimoire is pretty hilarious.
btw, have you overlooked Mirari? even if you have to exile the instant after toshiro's trigger, at least double your effects. Mirari coupled with mono blacks mana access and doubler's, your instants get much more value. also Mirari can help "twincast" other important spells such as Demonic Tutor or even in a pinch Reanimate
i know its pretty much useless on its own, but adds an interesting twist to the deck, if you can find room to add it to the list. Thran Lens it would pair nicely with Slaughter however, im trying to figure out different cards to pair the lens with. it will nullify the "nonblack clause" though making Slaughter much more lethal.
as far as an extended discard package and one that might fuel the decks progression and draw power as well. instead of using Bottomless Pit with Geth's Grimoire, try Anvil of Bogardan with Geth's Grimoire, because in a sense it can act like a one sided howling mine. while your opponents get the options to discard, you provide mild less politically compromising disruption to fuel your own deck and boost the value of discarding creature cards on either your or your opponents' sides.
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if you would like to strengthen this package even further though, you could add in Liliana of the Veil with Geth's Grimoire would be like a once a turn Syphon Mind, you could also add the really "unfun" card Words of Waste which combined with the grimoire is pretty hilarious.
btw, have you overlooked Mirari? even if you have to exile the instant after toshiro's trigger, at least double your effects. Mirari coupled with mono blacks mana access and doubler's, your instants get much more value. also Mirari can help "twincast" other important spells such as Demonic Tutor or even in a pinch Reanimate
hope some of these suggestions helped.
Slaughter still just needs too much work to make it work for me. I like the effect but I just hate nonblack targeting spot removal that much. Trying to add more cards to make it work sort of in my mind shows that its not going to work as I am not willing to try to assemble two cards in EDH to make something I didn't quite like more useful.
Mirari - its something that could be considered. My biggest concern is that its not cheap to cast meaning it might eat a whole turn and its got a bit of a target on its face. I really hate spending a turn on a useful trinket that everyone guns down. It really depends on how much hate it gets though and what sort of value you can get from it. Similar to it I did consider Isochron Scepter and Bosium Strip. I decided in the end that Isochron had too few targets and while the Strip would be nice for backup in case I dont have my commander I didn't really want to spend a card slot on something that mimicked my commander but had less targeting options to it.
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If I had to choose one offhand it would be between my rebels or Obzedat. I dont really like making things into primers until I play the hell out of them and this deck is still very new. Offhand, if I made another primer it would probably be my rebel deck. It is a lot of work to make a primer though so I dont know how much I even want to do that right now lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Played some games this weekend and made some adjustments based off of them. The list has been a lot of fun and I am glad I finally got it put together as I had been putting it off for some time. Geth and Chainer have been really big regular targets for the deck. I might consider increasing the amount of mill the lists uses just because sometimes its really slow to get targets.
DECK CHANGES:
Dimir House Guard -> Mindslicer its really hard to abuse the house guard as rez to play isnt so impressive with him. I had on several occasions though had good setups but people holding big hands of answers screws with me. Blowing up hands gives me targets and removes shinanigans from happening.
Slum Reaper -> Burnished Hart I had a lot of roundabout ways of dealing with creatures and I dont see much voltron in all. I also ran away with someone else's Burnished Hart this weekend. I was surprised at how ridiculous he can get when you reanimate it a few times.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed -> Gray Merchant of Asphodel Xiahou Dun has been sort of awkward with how much reanimation this deck already runs. To be honest, I already abuse a lot of my things so of the things I cant abuse with my commander or reanimation is mostly artifacts, walkers, and land of which he cant recover. So.... really.... he covers enchantments and its just too narrow. Gray Merchant has been nice in my testing in other decks and I stole one several times in a turn with Chainer in my testing and ended up killing everyone.
Mutilate -> Kokusho, the Evening Star I haven't really needed my sorcery speed wraths as much due to all of the instant shenanigans I have. I have also wanted more wincons and just high impact creatures.
Maze of Ith -> Altar of Dementia it isnt that I dont like maze but I have found that this deck actually defends itself quite decently with all the creatures in this version. I have on the other hand needed more sac outlets and it seems like mill + free sac would tie together quite nicely for this deck.
Bojuka Bog -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I realized I dont really like taking out entire graveyards all that much with all my rez. On the other hand, I love me some big ramp
Crypt Incursion -> Rescue from the Underworld I realized I dont really need to and dont like to take out entire graveyards that much. If someone else runs a big grave abuse deck it could come back in but for now I think I might cut it. I am interested to see how the new theros reanimation might work but so far I tried it once and it was less impressive when I had to drop a creature in my main and my grave got swept before my next turn. I will keep testing though and see how it goes.
Hatred -> Exanguinate I...... haven't liked Hatred... On the other hand this deck can get ridiculous mana really easily.
Swamp -> Tectonic Edge never know when you need to remove a land. I would run Strip Mine.... but I have spare tech edges.
Swamp -> Miren, the Moaning Well another sac outlet. It isnt cheap but it taps for mana which is nice. Its useful to have access to in an instant based deck.
Last night I managed to pull a win out of nowhere with Lashwrithe + Altar of Dementia. I think I had 14 lands of which 10 were swamps. I dropped Lashwrithe + Altar of Dementia and saced the token to mill 10. I dropped a Solemn, equpped off of life, saced for 13 mill, reanimated with Grim Return, mill equip for life, cast Undying Evil on simulacrum, sac for 14 mill, equip for life, mill for 16. I still had my commander in play as well but he had one card left in his deck which was his Worldspine Wurm that kept cycling itself back into the deck. He had lethal damage on board on me with a few 30/30 wurm tokens that he jumbled together when his Worldspine Wurm originally died with a bunch of dudes and Death's Presence in play which pumped the heck out of his wurm tokens.
Unfortunately for him, he also had Rites of Flourishing in play and had to draw 2 cards and died lol. The Worldspine Wurm had almost saved him if not for having to draw two cards.
The recent changes and how they are going so far:
Mindslicer So far, I havent really seen him. However this deck does bounce back nicely from hand hate and this guy can be looped and works well with sac outlets. It also puts a lot of targets in the graveyards for me to potentially pick up value with my commander on. I haven't been able to use him in here yet though specifically.
Burnished Hart I really like this guy so far. I haven't abused my own that much so far but he works nicely and just runs away with ramping in a rez based deck.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel I also haven't really seen my own much yet. The fact that I am so spell heavy leaves me a little questioning how hard he can hit on average but I think it will be a good thing overall.
Kokusho, the Evening Star I got to play him yesterday, I saced him the turn I dropped him and put him on the mimic vat and activated the mimic vat and saced him again in the same turn..... it was horribly delicious. I got one more activation from the vat as well before it got offed.
Altar of Dementia its been great so far. Usually, if I am not going to try to mill someone out, I will probably hit myself with the milling. It seems great so far. Its a very versatile multi use card for this deck.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I havent really drawn it yet. The downsides though seem to mostly just be if I have coffers and no urborg though. I think it will be good but havent really gotten any testing in yet.
Rescue from the Underworld mixed feelings so far. Its nice if I can use it at the end of opponents turns, its really unimpressive if I have to use it on my own turn. I havent gotten much testing in yet but have some high hopes for it.
Exanguinate mixed feelings so far. Its still good but if I am not in lolz mana, its less impressive.
Tectonic Edge its been good so far. I had to tech edge a tech edge yesterday to open the way for coffers later which sucked but whatever. I might have to add a second one of these to deal with problematic lands though.
Miren, the Moaning Well its been solid so far. I love dropping a Lashwrithe token to this. I actually lost a game because I forgot that I could have gained a ton of life from doing that one game this last week.
Overall, so far I am considering adding some more draw into the list. Some of the spot removal I run currently cant hit black creatures and it has been a huge problem on occasion. I might have to wheel those effects into something else.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have really been enjoying the feel of this deck. It is very flavorful and just plays differently so far. I have a few changes in mind though.
DECK CHANGES:
Snuff Out -> Hero's Downfall I thought I was going to like Snuff Out more than I did. I tend to have mana to spare when I need it for spot removal though so I would rather have some better removal. I like the idea of walker or creature removal with the downfall. I will probably just proxy play it for now though as it seems to be at sort of its peak price at the moment.
Treacherous Urge -> Sudden Spoiling I had been a little under impressed by the Urge in general. I like seeing hands and screwing with them but this just wasn't enough. I had been sort of reluctant to add the spoiling but I like it as a potential answer to indestructible and it can possibly fog if the conditions are right.
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni -> Nightmare Lash Ink-Eyes had been underwhelming in general. Of my reanimation creatures, it just wasnt one of the better ones. I have however, been really impressed by Lashwrithe so far so I thought I would test a second one even if it doesnt get a body by default.
Skullclamp -> Mesmeric Orb clamp has been a little hit and miss considering I dont run a ton of creatures of my own. I like it in general but I felt too pressured to rotate the creatures I had when I would get it and I just dont seem to run enough of them and dont like burning my reanimation just to rotate cards more. Mesmeric Orb can be a wincon against the big mana decks but what I am looking at is just putting resources in graveyards both my own and opponents so I can potentially abuse them. It had been one of my more impressive mill options back when I ran my UB mill deck so I am willing to test it as a potential resource generation outlet.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I played a 2 hour game this last Tuesday that turned into sort of like a 4v1 game of 5 player FFA with me and I ended up winning it still after grinding them out for the second hour or so. It started around turn 8 or so when I did an end of turn I killed a Sun Titan so I could flashback my Corpse Dance and rez Chainer, Dementia Master for a turn. From there I dropped a cabal coffers on my turn, rezed the sun titan to rez my vesuva I had discarded in as a copy of coffers, then proceeded to drop and reanimate my Gray Merchant of Asphodel for a total of stealing 21 life from each opponent. I ended up finishing the game out by abusing kokusho until everyone died / conceded lol.
DECK CHANGES:
Damnation -> Mutilate generally, it will accomplish about the same but there are some indestructible creatures out there that just really need to die. I am hoping that swapping to mutilate is an increase in my ability to kill those creatures.
Mimic Vat -> Nim Deathmantle generally, I am abusing my own creatures anyways. I am going to try out the deathmantle instead as if I have big mana and a free sac (I probably need more of these too), it could end up being more abusive. The vat can be sort of a trap though in the fact that I can end up exiling something I really want to abuse with it and then I am without that card. Due to that, I think I would rather test something else. I just wasnt really getting an opponent's sweet value creature often enough with the vat.
Worn Powerstone -> Praetor's Grasp I had been less impressed by the powerstone in general. It gets blown up on me and the grasp can get me some of the creatures from opponents decks that ramp hard and then I can abuse them more. Plus it gives me more access to Oblivion Stone if I need it. We will see though, it seems like grasp never pans out as well as I would hope for it to. It could always be an Exsanguinate / Necro / Coffers or something though.... I will keep hoping and put it in for some playtesting.
1 Swamp -> Buried Ruin I have added some really nice artifacts to the list. Enough that I think running the ruin is worthwhile.
Nirkana Revenant -> False Cure I happen to see quite a bit of lifegain / life siphoning in my meta. I would love to see the situation where someone hits a Debt to the Deathless and I False Cure + an opponent sacs a creature and I do it a second time or something lol. People are running a lot of lifegain in my meta though to deal with siphoning decks and it would be fun to deal with an opposing siphon deck or just in response to a big Sphinx's Revelation or whatever with a kick to the groin. Nirkana Revenant.... I keep hoping for good things from but continue to not really see them.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
A few more quick changes. Nothing really major here though. I have wanted a little more continuous draw in the deck though so here goes a bit.
DECK CHANGE:
Altar's Reap -> Erebos, God of the Dead I think that Altar's Reap is a cool card and occasionally its really good, but generally speaking I want repeatable sac outlets or card draw that hits harder. It fits the theme of the deck, but I was looking for a little more continued use draw. Erebos is interesting in the fact that it stops opposing lifegain, draws me cards, and might animate for some beats. Being heavy on rez, it seems like I could potentially mill into it and then rez it back into play. I didnt have good results with my testing it earlier but being that I am delving into some mill, sacrifice, and reanimation it seems like it could fit the bill of what I am looking for here.
1 Swamp -> Volrath's Stronghold It seems like a great bit of utility to pick up on. I dont know really why I didnt have it in here earlier. Coffers have still been really solid even with adding more utility lands to the deck so until its a problem, I will just add a few more utility lands. Plus, hurting one land's efficiency to give myself more utility seems worthwhile.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well, small change but I ran into an opposing Erebos, God of the Dead last night and I realized I had relatively no good way to answer it. I had already discarded Karn to an early Necropotence discard because it was early in the game and it bit me in the ass. This deck does a decent amount of life siphoning and so it made it less impressive when I cant recover life. I was sitting on Exsanguinate the whole time too which was a kick in the teeth when I could no longer gain life. Anyways, small change but I wanted another means to deal with indestructable things so:
DECK CHANGE:
Mutiliate -> All is Dust apparently hitting noncreature indestructables is big too
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I really love commanders with 3 CMC, I also love your decks!
I've been toying around with a similar list, two cards I haven't playtested yet but am about to are Moriok Replica and Dark Prophecy. The Enchantment helps feed the Merchant's devotion and Moriok is some nice extra draw power on a stick! Also thoughts on Avatar of Woe over Dark Imposter since it triggers Toshiro's ability where as exiling wont.
If you sac your own stuff a lot, Skullclamp will be good regardless if your creatures are 1/1 or not. Also, Nether Traitor carries Lashwrithe really well.
I really love commanders with 3 CMC, I also love your decks!
I've been toying around with a similar list, two cards I haven't playtested yet but am about to are Moriok Replica and Dark Prophecy. The Enchantment helps feed the Merchant's devotion and Moriok is some nice extra draw power on a stick! Also thoughts on Avatar of Woe over Dark Imposter since it triggers Toshiro's ability where as exiling wont.
If you sac your own stuff a lot, Skullclamp will be good regardless if your creatures are 1/1 or not. Also, Nether Traitor carries Lashwrithe really well.
Yay some Toshiro love! This deck has been a lot of fun to play lately as its been one of my main testing decks at the moment.
Moriok Replica it seems like a fun toy, my only issue is that I dont really see myself using any sort of rez on it outside of possibly like Volrath's Stronghold assuming I was just swimming in mana and lacking draw. 5 mana and 2 life to draw 2 cards isn't that impressive all around.
Dark Prophecy I ended up cutting Skullclamp a while back because I dont have that many creatures in the deck and I often end up seeing people exile and tuck my creatures as their removal. I sort of see Dark Prophecy as sort of a second string Skullclamp for the most part. I think its probably ok to test but I dont foresee it having better results. The BBB devotion is sort of nice considering I do run two devotion cards now with Nykthos as the other but I dont think I am that keen on running it. I would likely want more creatures and sac style of creatures to be sort of something I would be pushing.
Avatar of Woe in general, I dislike these type of creatures because they need to untap to be used. I occasionally run into indestructible creatures and things that I just dont want my opponents to have access to at all which is why I run Dark Imposter. Generally speaking, when I drop the imposter I am still more than happy not getting my commander's triggers because the targets I am hitting probably needed to go away for good. He also has the potential to be used several times in a turn which this deck often pushes for that sort of crazy mana to do.
Skullclamp it was just an issue with not seeing that much for results from it overall. The overall quantity of creatures this deck runs isn't that high that it was crazy or anything. I tend to like running more utility dorks to really capitalize on the clamp. Its not bad at all but it also wasnt as amazing as I wanted it to be.
Nether Traitor I dont run that many death trigger sort of things. It can get in there with equipment but honestly I dont see enough synergy with this guy to run it for that purpose alone.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Oh, I totally missed your comment. Sorry about that lol.
Helm of Possession I always want to be running more sacrifice outlets to get away with this card. Without a follow up sacrifice outlet to drop the creature, I worry that the helm is too easy to smash and get the creature back or Homeward Path back. Its cool, but I generally like to be running more creatures and more sac outlets to make it work how I want it to.
Plunge Into Darkness I have a hard time really judging the value of this card. What I like about it is sort of some versatility though. I really dont know how much life I would generally pay into this card but I think 3-5 life would probably be an average of what I would try and test at. Beyond that and I would feel like I am trying to inefficiently tutor and exiling a lot of valuable cards but at 3-5 I think I would usually not care about several of the ones I exile with it. I think..... I would have to really sort of test it and see how it goes before I can give a very good verdict. It has however seemed similar to Tainted Pact in several ways except you know you will always get a card out of it and it has some slight life loss attached. I think Plunge Into Darkness might prove to be the better card of the two though....... I think it would be fun to try to get in for some testing on it though but I cant really say offhand.
Sepulchral Primordial its been mostly a miss for me. I think its cool, but its expensive and very questionable most of the time for me. Plus, people run more Homeward Path in my meta than I would expect to normally see.
Basalt Monolith generally speaking, I do not enjoy paying mana to untap my mana. I like having access to my mana each turn unless its a deck whose objective is to ramp into its commander or something like that.
Infernal Tribute I might end up trying to run this. I generally try to keep some mana up for options or fake having options.
Shallow Grave I am a bit hesitant to run it in part because it affects my own graveyard only and it exiles the creature if I dont have a sac outlet. Corpse Dance is actually a little sketchy generally speaking in this deck so I guess I would be more hesitant to run this variant for one less mana.
Rescue from the Underworld I unfortunately haven't really gotten enough testing with it yet. I like the potential capabilities of this card though. I need more testing first though as I haven't really played with it enough yet. Oddly enough, I did not catch the portion of this card that exiles itself when it resolves until just now.... Hummmmmm........ I will have to give it some thought.
Infernal Tribute and Plunge Into Darkness are cards I am interested in possibly testing though. I have to sort of look at things though and think about them offhand.
Plunge seems fairly good in non combo builds. I have only really played it in paladin storm in modern but it's a fine card. Black impulse with a drawback but potentially stronger. Hard to say I probably wouldn't play it but it's probably playable
There was just some random thread in which I suggested Toshiro, which got me browsing, so here I am in another one of your decklists, heh. With a kinda silly idea. First I thought about the hunted cards, but the black one gives creatures with pro black. Seems pretty bad, especially since edicts are generally weaker in edh than elsewhere. Then I considered forbidden orchard. That's the sort of thing I like in edh. Some convoluted potential synergy. Assuming you've played this deck a few times, have you ever come across a situation where you want to cast something in your yard but the board was just wrathed or it's been kept clean by a heavy control match? The 1/1s don't seem hugely threatening if you are forced to use it a couple times just to curve out. Plus, hey, maybe giving someone 1/1s will form an alliance.
There was just some random thread in which I suggested Toshiro, which got me browsing, so here I am in another one of your decklists, heh. With a kinda silly idea. First I thought about the hunted cards, but the black one gives creatures with pro black. Seems pretty bad, especially since edicts are generally weaker in edh than elsewhere. Then I considered forbidden orchard. That's the sort of thing I like in edh. Some convoluted potential synergy. Assuming you've played this deck a few times, have you ever come across a situation where you want to cast something in your yard but the board was just wrathed or it's been kept clean by a heavy control match? The 1/1s don't seem hugely threatening if you are forced to use it a couple times just to curve out. Plus, hey, maybe giving someone 1/1s will form an alliance.
Generally speaking, Toshiro isn't going to eat any spot removal outside of possibly a tuck but usually he isn't threatening enough to be the one that eats a spot removal tuck effect. In a wrath, if I have something I would want to cast mutliple times, I can just cast it before the wrath resolves and then again when everything is dying so it hasn't really been much of an issue yet.
Forbidden Orchard is an interesting suggestion. I could see uses of playing politically and giving someone a chump blocker to stave off damage and I get to cast a spell off of it but generally speaking, if I am having issues getting triggers for toshiro it tends to often be because people are avoiding giving them to me so I dont really know if it would work. Plus, the fact that you always have to give out a token seems sort of like a pain because in the early game I dont really want to have it because it is potentially a LOT of tokens I might have to hand out.
And I agree, the black haunted creature sounds like a lot of backfire waiting to happen lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I've been wanting to build a Toshiro deck for some time now, and Corpse Dance has long been one of my pet cards, I was thinking about this direction as well. Imagine my delight to see an ISB Toshi-reanimator deck!
One thing I've been thinking about that you haven't bothered with is having on-demand, repeatable access to Toshiro's ability, for example Avatar of Woe and her sister Visara the Dreadful. I realize you find them slow, but have you found that you've ever wanted on-demand kills, or have you found that hasn't a problem?
I assume sac outlets like Altar of Dementia are for more value out of cards like Corpse Dance and Puppeteer Clique, and to prevent the cards getting exiled?
One finisher I'm looking at is Runechanter's Pike, especially if I run more sorceries than you (I also love Dregs of Sorrow). Have you found many instants are sitting in your graveyard at a given time, or are you generally eating through them pretty quick?
It seems like mana isn't often a problem in this deck, such that you're not running cards like Black Market?
Life's Finale is a nice wrath if you're running all-graveyard reanimator. Speaking of which, Geth a bit pricey for you?
I've been wanting to build a Toshiro deck for some time now, and Corpse Dance has long been one of my pet cards, I was thinking about this direction as well. Imagine my delight to see an ISB Toshi-reanimator deck!
One thing I've been thinking about that you haven't bothered with is having on-demand, repeatable access to Toshiro's ability, for example Avatar of Woe and her sister Visara the Dreadful. I realize you find them slow, but have you found that you've ever wanted on-demand kills, or have you found that hasn't a problem?
I assume sac outlets like Altar of Dementia are for more value out of cards like Corpse Dance and Puppeteer Clique, and to prevent the cards getting exiled?
One finisher I'm looking at is Runechanter's Pike, especially if I run more sorceries than you (I also love Dregs of Sorrow). Have you found many instants are sitting in your graveyard at a given time, or are you generally eating through them pretty quick?
It seems like mana isn't often a problem in this deck, such that you're not running cards like Black Market?
Life's Finale is a nice wrath if you're running all-graveyard reanimator. Speaking of which, Geth a bit pricey for you?
Thanks, the deck is a lot of fun and its a ton of fun to toy with tweeking as well. Its far from perfect and personal preferences can play in quite a bit as well.
Visara the Dreadful / Avatar of Woe - my overall feeling on these cards is that they bring a lot of hate down on themselves and tend to achieve too little on average. Including them sort of pushes the importance of haste outlets such as Lightning Greaves a bit as well. I actually dont mind them as much in a reanimator build because sometimes people wont try gunning them down just due to the amount of recursion we have access to. Its still not my favorite style of card just due to the slow value on them but I think they are more runable in a deck like this where their abilities open you up to things and you have increased access to reanimation for them.
Altar of Dementia its really sort of a multi-purpose style of card. I have surprisingly milled a lot of people out with the alter by utilizing it with Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash chaining between my creatures and just powering out huge mills. In general terms though, I tend to focus on keeping a graveyard for myself. Putting instants into the graveyard is a resource generation and putting creatures to reanimate into the bin are also very useful giving us more access to thigns to rez. I generally try not to over do it on my own grave but even hitting opponents who have little rez or important creatures can be very useful. I also run Mesmeric Orb as a similar sort of objective to give myself resources as well as to try to punish some ramp heavy opponents.
Runechanter's Pike its not bad per say but we are already reliant on graveyards in a lot of ways. I would try to stick to the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash personally over it due to that. It sort of diversifies you a little bit and unless your meta runs MLD its usually a stronger buff.
Black Market it has sort of a slow start up time has been my usual finding with the card. I generally prefer Caged Sun / Gauntlet of Power if you are looking for more crazy mana options. I really have been meaning to get around to testing Crypt Ghast at some point too but I have a feeling its just going to be a giant target usually.
Life's Finale - its been sort of in my consideration for a bit now due to being re-animator. To be honest though, the sorcery wraths have usually been a bit awkward though just because the instant wraths have been really useful so far and the deck runs a good number of target answers.
Geth - he is a little spendy but I usually push him towards later in the game if possible. He and Chainer tend to be two of my biggest rez targets in the deck as people really start dropping fast if I can keep them in play. Geth's mill effect is useful and his repeated rez is incredible. I have spent several turns before just grabbing Sakura-Tribe Elders and such before just because of the silly amount of value in it.
DECK CHANGE:
Reckless Spite -> Slaughter it seems like both of these cards have sort of similar issues but I have had enough of reckless and the issues I have had with it so far. The other day, someone cast a Kozilek and all of the other creatures were black and I couldn't use reckless due to that and we sort of all died to it due to that due to the haste boots equip that followed it. They seem like similar sort of cards but I have had enough of reckless at the moment and its not working. I might end up trying to find another cheap spot removal that doesn't have the no nonblack to it but for now I just wanted a change and test something else. Slaughter has some potential to be sort of an engine for triggering toshiro triggers which is nice.
I honestly cant recall if I already cut Rescue from the Underworld from the list offhand in real life or not. Its likely on its way out though, I need to find out if I already replaced it or not though as it was on its way out last I could recall. I will try to check the list or think over its replacement for now. Its been an awkward card so far and the fact that it self exiles when it resolves was sort of the nail in the coffin for it really.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Alright, well slight deck update. I think my IRL list is slightly diverging somehow from my digital list so I really need to take a closer look at things when I get a chance. Somehow I got Infernal Tribute into my real list which my digital list does not reflect. I will try to weed things out later though when and if I get a chance. My intentions are more to have my IRL list reflect the digital list so its possible that I changed out rescue earlier trying to get it out of my list or something else could have gone wrong somewhere... I will figure it out later though.
DECK CHANGES:
Nightmare Lash -> Pontiff of Blight I still sort of like the Lash but considering it doesn't actually come with a token attached like the Lashwrithe its been less impressive overall. I still like it but it seems like I am trying to hard to mash it together with Altar of Dementia to be honest. Artifacts dont really have a lot of synergy with the rest of the deck here so I am trying to push for higher synergy. I like the idea of Pontiff with the instants in this deck as well as with a reanimator style of build.
Rescue from the Underworld -> Sheoldred, Whispering One Rescue has just been too odd of a card really. The fact that it has a delay in its rez has been awkward more than once and I didn't realize it exiled itself on resolution making it again really awkward. Sheoldred also has some slowness to her but it seems like she could be really solid with the rez based build of this deck. She does a lot of things that I should be trying to do and she picks up triggers for Toshiro fairly nicely just by making opponents sacrifice. She has a huge target on her face but thats not all bad in a rez based deck.
Unfortunately, both of these changes push my curve higher. I want to keep testing things though and toying with the build though. Time will tell as to how it turns out. I have been thinking about trying to move rescue out of the list for far too long though to wait much longer to make a change.
I got a really ridiculous game this weekend where I had 3 Cabal Coffers and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in play at the same time... I had an Exsanguinate in hand but was playing against like 3x blue player opponents so I had to really walk around them for a while to feel out who had a counterspell and or mana to cast one. I managed to hit it for like 19 as the X after doing like 4 other things that turn and baiting their hands out. It was funny to have that much mana at my disposal in one shot.
What about Phyrexian Delver? Maybe also [CARD]Betrayal of Flesh
[/CARD], but the mana cost is a bit high.
Phyrexian Delver it sort of resembles Karmic Guide but its quite a bit worse. Karmic Guide has flying and a relevant protection. Its true that you get to keep the delver beyond the one turn without paying for an echo cost but the body on the Delver is also less relevant than the guides. It only rezes from your own graveyard and its body is mostly irrelevant. I dont much like it due to all of this. I dont foresee myself rezing the Delver over the target I actually want ever so, in a lot of ways its just not a very good style of Zombify.
Betrayal of Flesh I actually missed the fact that it works as a rez effect. Its.... something I suppose lol. It has some versatility but to be honest if I payed 6 mana for a Murder..... I would really not be happy. As a rez effect, its mostly just a little over costed. I think due to the versatility in what it can do.... it might be playable but on the low end here. If they could have shaved a mana off I would be much happier with it but it might be something worth testing due to versatility.
Slaughter Pact? You can cast it from the graveyard when tapped out if something dies..
It is an option. I really dislike nonblack spot removal though when I can avoid it. I really haven't had much of an issue with mana though in this deck though to be honest. I really try to rez abuse early ramp creatures in here.
I think the last game I played I had the power to generate something like 30-40 mana on like turn 12.
When it comes to the free now and pay later spells, the big question is if you regularly cannot afford the mana to cast the spell that these effects are actually doing. For me, I regularly have the mana for the cheap kill spell so it makes it less interesting for me to run.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Thanks, I just recently retrieved all my surplus cards from storage so hopefully I can get my list running and get some feedback on the build myself here shortly.
I am glad that the build is working well for you though. Its obviously got some issues with grave hate but hopefully keeping out of over committing to it can work but it will always be a problem with how heavily I have pushed on the graveyard in the build currently.
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[Modern] Allies
i know its pretty much useless on its own, but adds an interesting twist to the deck, if you can find room to add it to the list. Thran Lens it would pair nicely with Slaughter however, im trying to figure out different cards to pair the lens with. it will nullify the "nonblack clause" though making Slaughter much more lethal.
as far as an extended discard package and one that might fuel the decks progression and draw power as well. instead of using Bottomless Pit with Geth's Grimoire, try Anvil of Bogardan with Geth's Grimoire, because in a sense it can act like a one sided howling mine. while your opponents get the options to discard, you provide mild less politically compromising disruption to fuel your own deck and boost the value of discarding creature cards on either your or your opponents' sides.
[edit]
if you would like to strengthen this package even further though, you could add in Liliana of the Veil with Geth's Grimoire would be like a once a turn Syphon Mind, you could also add the really "unfun" card Words of Waste which combined with the grimoire is pretty hilarious.
btw, have you overlooked Mirari? even if you have to exile the instant after toshiro's trigger, at least double your effects. Mirari coupled with mono blacks mana access and doubler's, your instants get much more value. also Mirari can help "twincast" other important spells such as Demonic Tutor or even in a pinch Reanimate
hope some of these suggestions helped.
Currently playing
EDH
:symb:Xiahou Dun, the one-eyed utility control:symb:
Modern
:symb::symr::symg:Jund:symg::symr::symb:
Legacy
:symb::symb: The Nightmare Effect:symb::symb:
Standard
taking a break
Slaughter still just needs too much work to make it work for me. I like the effect but I just hate nonblack targeting spot removal that much. Trying to add more cards to make it work sort of in my mind shows that its not going to work as I am not willing to try to assemble two cards in EDH to make something I didn't quite like more useful.
Mirari - its something that could be considered. My biggest concern is that its not cheap to cast meaning it might eat a whole turn and its got a bit of a target on its face. I really hate spending a turn on a useful trinket that everyone guns down. It really depends on how much hate it gets though and what sort of value you can get from it. Similar to it I did consider Isochron Scepter and Bosium Strip. I decided in the end that Isochron had too few targets and while the Strip would be nice for backup in case I dont have my commander I didn't really want to spend a card slot on something that mimicked my commander but had less targeting options to it.
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[Modern] Allies
Probably not lol.
If I had to choose one offhand it would be between my rebels or Obzedat. I dont really like making things into primers until I play the hell out of them and this deck is still very new. Offhand, if I made another primer it would probably be my rebel deck. It is a lot of work to make a primer though so I dont know how much I even want to do that right now lol.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Dimir House Guard -> Mindslicer its really hard to abuse the house guard as rez to play isnt so impressive with him. I had on several occasions though had good setups but people holding big hands of answers screws with me. Blowing up hands gives me targets and removes shinanigans from happening.
Slum Reaper -> Burnished Hart I had a lot of roundabout ways of dealing with creatures and I dont see much voltron in all. I also ran away with someone else's Burnished Hart this weekend. I was surprised at how ridiculous he can get when you reanimate it a few times.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed -> Gray Merchant of Asphodel Xiahou Dun has been sort of awkward with how much reanimation this deck already runs. To be honest, I already abuse a lot of my things so of the things I cant abuse with my commander or reanimation is mostly artifacts, walkers, and land of which he cant recover. So.... really.... he covers enchantments and its just too narrow. Gray Merchant has been nice in my testing in other decks and I stole one several times in a turn with Chainer in my testing and ended up killing everyone.
Mutilate -> Kokusho, the Evening Star I haven't really needed my sorcery speed wraths as much due to all of the instant shenanigans I have. I have also wanted more wincons and just high impact creatures.
Maze of Ith -> Altar of Dementia it isnt that I dont like maze but I have found that this deck actually defends itself quite decently with all the creatures in this version. I have on the other hand needed more sac outlets and it seems like mill + free sac would tie together quite nicely for this deck.
Bojuka Bog -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I realized I dont really like taking out entire graveyards all that much with all my rez. On the other hand, I love me some big ramp
Crypt Incursion -> Rescue from the Underworld I realized I dont really need to and dont like to take out entire graveyards that much. If someone else runs a big grave abuse deck it could come back in but for now I think I might cut it. I am interested to see how the new theros reanimation might work but so far I tried it once and it was less impressive when I had to drop a creature in my main and my grave got swept before my next turn. I will keep testing though and see how it goes.
Hatred -> Exanguinate I...... haven't liked Hatred... On the other hand this deck can get ridiculous mana really easily.
Swamp -> Tectonic Edge never know when you need to remove a land. I would run Strip Mine.... but I have spare tech edges.
Swamp -> Miren, the Moaning Well another sac outlet. It isnt cheap but it taps for mana which is nice. Its useful to have access to in an instant based deck.
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[Modern] Allies
Unfortunately for him, he also had Rites of Flourishing in play and had to draw 2 cards and died lol. The Worldspine Wurm had almost saved him if not for having to draw two cards.
The recent changes and how they are going so far:
Mindslicer So far, I havent really seen him. However this deck does bounce back nicely from hand hate and this guy can be looped and works well with sac outlets. It also puts a lot of targets in the graveyards for me to potentially pick up value with my commander on. I haven't been able to use him in here yet though specifically.
Burnished Hart I really like this guy so far. I haven't abused my own that much so far but he works nicely and just runs away with ramping in a rez based deck.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel I also haven't really seen my own much yet. The fact that I am so spell heavy leaves me a little questioning how hard he can hit on average but I think it will be a good thing overall.
Kokusho, the Evening Star I got to play him yesterday, I saced him the turn I dropped him and put him on the mimic vat and activated the mimic vat and saced him again in the same turn..... it was horribly delicious. I got one more activation from the vat as well before it got offed.
Altar of Dementia its been great so far. Usually, if I am not going to try to mill someone out, I will probably hit myself with the milling. It seems great so far. Its a very versatile multi use card for this deck.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I havent really drawn it yet. The downsides though seem to mostly just be if I have coffers and no urborg though. I think it will be good but havent really gotten any testing in yet.
Rescue from the Underworld mixed feelings so far. Its nice if I can use it at the end of opponents turns, its really unimpressive if I have to use it on my own turn. I havent gotten much testing in yet but have some high hopes for it.
Exanguinate mixed feelings so far. Its still good but if I am not in lolz mana, its less impressive.
Tectonic Edge its been good so far. I had to tech edge a tech edge yesterday to open the way for coffers later which sucked but whatever. I might have to add a second one of these to deal with problematic lands though.
Miren, the Moaning Well its been solid so far. I love dropping a Lashwrithe token to this. I actually lost a game because I forgot that I could have gained a ton of life from doing that one game this last week.
Overall, so far I am considering adding some more draw into the list. Some of the spot removal I run currently cant hit black creatures and it has been a huge problem on occasion. I might have to wheel those effects into something else.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Snuff Out -> Hero's Downfall I thought I was going to like Snuff Out more than I did. I tend to have mana to spare when I need it for spot removal though so I would rather have some better removal. I like the idea of walker or creature removal with the downfall. I will probably just proxy play it for now though as it seems to be at sort of its peak price at the moment.
Treacherous Urge -> Sudden Spoiling I had been a little under impressed by the Urge in general. I like seeing hands and screwing with them but this just wasn't enough. I had been sort of reluctant to add the spoiling but I like it as a potential answer to indestructible and it can possibly fog if the conditions are right.
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni -> Nightmare Lash Ink-Eyes had been underwhelming in general. Of my reanimation creatures, it just wasnt one of the better ones. I have however, been really impressed by Lashwrithe so far so I thought I would test a second one even if it doesnt get a body by default.
Skullclamp -> Mesmeric Orb clamp has been a little hit and miss considering I dont run a ton of creatures of my own. I like it in general but I felt too pressured to rotate the creatures I had when I would get it and I just dont seem to run enough of them and dont like burning my reanimation just to rotate cards more. Mesmeric Orb can be a wincon against the big mana decks but what I am looking at is just putting resources in graveyards both my own and opponents so I can potentially abuse them. It had been one of my more impressive mill options back when I ran my UB mill deck so I am willing to test it as a potential resource generation outlet.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Damnation -> Mutilate generally, it will accomplish about the same but there are some indestructible creatures out there that just really need to die. I am hoping that swapping to mutilate is an increase in my ability to kill those creatures.
Mimic Vat -> Nim Deathmantle generally, I am abusing my own creatures anyways. I am going to try out the deathmantle instead as if I have big mana and a free sac (I probably need more of these too), it could end up being more abusive. The vat can be sort of a trap though in the fact that I can end up exiling something I really want to abuse with it and then I am without that card. Due to that, I think I would rather test something else. I just wasnt really getting an opponent's sweet value creature often enough with the vat.
Worn Powerstone -> Praetor's Grasp I had been less impressed by the powerstone in general. It gets blown up on me and the grasp can get me some of the creatures from opponents decks that ramp hard and then I can abuse them more. Plus it gives me more access to Oblivion Stone if I need it. We will see though, it seems like grasp never pans out as well as I would hope for it to. It could always be an Exsanguinate / Necro / Coffers or something though.... I will keep hoping and put it in for some playtesting.
1 Swamp -> Buried Ruin I have added some really nice artifacts to the list. Enough that I think running the ruin is worthwhile.
Nirkana Revenant -> False Cure I happen to see quite a bit of lifegain / life siphoning in my meta. I would love to see the situation where someone hits a Debt to the Deathless and I False Cure + an opponent sacs a creature and I do it a second time or something lol. People are running a lot of lifegain in my meta though to deal with siphoning decks and it would be fun to deal with an opposing siphon deck or just in response to a big Sphinx's Revelation or whatever with a kick to the groin. Nirkana Revenant.... I keep hoping for good things from but continue to not really see them.
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[Modern] Allies
I like Praetor's Grasp!
My Trades
DECK CHANGE:
Altar's Reap -> Erebos, God of the Dead I think that Altar's Reap is a cool card and occasionally its really good, but generally speaking I want repeatable sac outlets or card draw that hits harder. It fits the theme of the deck, but I was looking for a little more continued use draw. Erebos is interesting in the fact that it stops opposing lifegain, draws me cards, and might animate for some beats. Being heavy on rez, it seems like I could potentially mill into it and then rez it back into play. I didnt have good results with my testing it earlier but being that I am delving into some mill, sacrifice, and reanimation it seems like it could fit the bill of what I am looking for here.
1 Swamp -> Volrath's Stronghold It seems like a great bit of utility to pick up on. I dont know really why I didnt have it in here earlier. Coffers have still been really solid even with adding more utility lands to the deck so until its a problem, I will just add a few more utility lands. Plus, hurting one land's efficiency to give myself more utility seems worthwhile.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGE:
Mutiliate -> All is Dust apparently hitting noncreature indestructables is big too
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[Modern] Allies
I've been toying around with a similar list, two cards I haven't playtested yet but am about to are Moriok Replica and Dark Prophecy. The Enchantment helps feed the Merchant's devotion and Moriok is some nice extra draw power on a stick! Also thoughts on Avatar of Woe over Dark Imposter since it triggers Toshiro's ability where as exiling wont.
Grave Betrayal has also won me games.
If you sac your own stuff a lot, Skullclamp will be good regardless if your creatures are 1/1 or not. Also, Nether Traitor carries Lashwrithe really well.
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
Yay some Toshiro love! This deck has been a lot of fun to play lately as its been one of my main testing decks at the moment.
Moriok Replica it seems like a fun toy, my only issue is that I dont really see myself using any sort of rez on it outside of possibly like Volrath's Stronghold assuming I was just swimming in mana and lacking draw. 5 mana and 2 life to draw 2 cards isn't that impressive all around.
Dark Prophecy I ended up cutting Skullclamp a while back because I dont have that many creatures in the deck and I often end up seeing people exile and tuck my creatures as their removal. I sort of see Dark Prophecy as sort of a second string Skullclamp for the most part. I think its probably ok to test but I dont foresee it having better results. The BBB devotion is sort of nice considering I do run two devotion cards now with Nykthos as the other but I dont think I am that keen on running it. I would likely want more creatures and sac style of creatures to be sort of something I would be pushing.
Avatar of Woe in general, I dislike these type of creatures because they need to untap to be used. I occasionally run into indestructible creatures and things that I just dont want my opponents to have access to at all which is why I run Dark Imposter. Generally speaking, when I drop the imposter I am still more than happy not getting my commander's triggers because the targets I am hitting probably needed to go away for good. He also has the potential to be used several times in a turn which this deck often pushes for that sort of crazy mana to do.
Skullclamp it was just an issue with not seeing that much for results from it overall. The overall quantity of creatures this deck runs isn't that high that it was crazy or anything. I tend to like running more utility dorks to really capitalize on the clamp. Its not bad at all but it also wasnt as amazing as I wanted it to be.
Nether Traitor I dont run that many death trigger sort of things. It can get in there with equipment but honestly I dont see enough synergy with this guy to run it for that purpose alone.
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[Modern] Allies
Plunge Into Darkness - Neat upgrade to Altar's Reap?
Sepulchral Primordial? - Playtest with this yet? Its usually hit or miss in my meta...
Basalt Monolith? - Over Darksteel Ingot perhaps? Monolith combos off with Mesmeric Orb. Tap monolith for and untap the monolith with the mana produced!
Infernal Tribute for more devotional love.
===
Shallow Grave over Rescue from the Underworld if the 5CMC is too much...
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
Oh, I totally missed your comment. Sorry about that lol.
Helm of Possession I always want to be running more sacrifice outlets to get away with this card. Without a follow up sacrifice outlet to drop the creature, I worry that the helm is too easy to smash and get the creature back or Homeward Path back. Its cool, but I generally like to be running more creatures and more sac outlets to make it work how I want it to.
Plunge Into Darkness I have a hard time really judging the value of this card. What I like about it is sort of some versatility though. I really dont know how much life I would generally pay into this card but I think 3-5 life would probably be an average of what I would try and test at. Beyond that and I would feel like I am trying to inefficiently tutor and exiling a lot of valuable cards but at 3-5 I think I would usually not care about several of the ones I exile with it. I think..... I would have to really sort of test it and see how it goes before I can give a very good verdict. It has however seemed similar to Tainted Pact in several ways except you know you will always get a card out of it and it has some slight life loss attached. I think Plunge Into Darkness might prove to be the better card of the two though....... I think it would be fun to try to get in for some testing on it though but I cant really say offhand.
Sepulchral Primordial its been mostly a miss for me. I think its cool, but its expensive and very questionable most of the time for me. Plus, people run more Homeward Path in my meta than I would expect to normally see.
Basalt Monolith generally speaking, I do not enjoy paying mana to untap my mana. I like having access to my mana each turn unless its a deck whose objective is to ramp into its commander or something like that.
Infernal Tribute I might end up trying to run this. I generally try to keep some mana up for options or fake having options.
Shallow Grave I am a bit hesitant to run it in part because it affects my own graveyard only and it exiles the creature if I dont have a sac outlet. Corpse Dance is actually a little sketchy generally speaking in this deck so I guess I would be more hesitant to run this variant for one less mana.
Rescue from the Underworld I unfortunately haven't really gotten enough testing with it yet. I like the potential capabilities of this card though. I need more testing first though as I haven't really played with it enough yet. Oddly enough, I did not catch the portion of this card that exiles itself when it resolves until just now.... Hummmmmm........ I will have to give it some thought.
Infernal Tribute and Plunge Into Darkness are cards I am interested in possibly testing though. I have to sort of look at things though and think about them offhand.
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[Modern] Allies
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Generally speaking, Toshiro isn't going to eat any spot removal outside of possibly a tuck but usually he isn't threatening enough to be the one that eats a spot removal tuck effect. In a wrath, if I have something I would want to cast mutliple times, I can just cast it before the wrath resolves and then again when everything is dying so it hasn't really been much of an issue yet.
Forbidden Orchard is an interesting suggestion. I could see uses of playing politically and giving someone a chump blocker to stave off damage and I get to cast a spell off of it but generally speaking, if I am having issues getting triggers for toshiro it tends to often be because people are avoiding giving them to me so I dont really know if it would work. Plus, the fact that you always have to give out a token seems sort of like a pain because in the early game I dont really want to have it because it is potentially a LOT of tokens I might have to hand out.
And I agree, the black haunted creature sounds like a lot of backfire waiting to happen lol.
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[Modern] Allies
One thing I've been thinking about that you haven't bothered with is having on-demand, repeatable access to Toshiro's ability, for example Avatar of Woe and her sister Visara the Dreadful. I realize you find them slow, but have you found that you've ever wanted on-demand kills, or have you found that hasn't a problem?
I assume sac outlets like Altar of Dementia are for more value out of cards like Corpse Dance and Puppeteer Clique, and to prevent the cards getting exiled?
One finisher I'm looking at is Runechanter's Pike, especially if I run more sorceries than you (I also love Dregs of Sorrow). Have you found many instants are sitting in your graveyard at a given time, or are you generally eating through them pretty quick?
It seems like mana isn't often a problem in this deck, such that you're not running cards like Black Market?
Life's Finale is a nice wrath if you're running all-graveyard reanimator. Speaking of which, Geth a bit pricey for you?
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Thanks, the deck is a lot of fun and its a ton of fun to toy with tweeking as well. Its far from perfect and personal preferences can play in quite a bit as well.
Visara the Dreadful / Avatar of Woe - my overall feeling on these cards is that they bring a lot of hate down on themselves and tend to achieve too little on average. Including them sort of pushes the importance of haste outlets such as Lightning Greaves a bit as well. I actually dont mind them as much in a reanimator build because sometimes people wont try gunning them down just due to the amount of recursion we have access to. Its still not my favorite style of card just due to the slow value on them but I think they are more runable in a deck like this where their abilities open you up to things and you have increased access to reanimation for them.
Altar of Dementia its really sort of a multi-purpose style of card. I have surprisingly milled a lot of people out with the alter by utilizing it with Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash chaining between my creatures and just powering out huge mills. In general terms though, I tend to focus on keeping a graveyard for myself. Putting instants into the graveyard is a resource generation and putting creatures to reanimate into the bin are also very useful giving us more access to thigns to rez. I generally try not to over do it on my own grave but even hitting opponents who have little rez or important creatures can be very useful. I also run Mesmeric Orb as a similar sort of objective to give myself resources as well as to try to punish some ramp heavy opponents.
Runechanter's Pike its not bad per say but we are already reliant on graveyards in a lot of ways. I would try to stick to the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash personally over it due to that. It sort of diversifies you a little bit and unless your meta runs MLD its usually a stronger buff.
Black Market it has sort of a slow start up time has been my usual finding with the card. I generally prefer Caged Sun / Gauntlet of Power if you are looking for more crazy mana options. I really have been meaning to get around to testing Crypt Ghast at some point too but I have a feeling its just going to be a giant target usually.
Life's Finale - its been sort of in my consideration for a bit now due to being re-animator. To be honest though, the sorcery wraths have usually been a bit awkward though just because the instant wraths have been really useful so far and the deck runs a good number of target answers.
Geth - he is a little spendy but I usually push him towards later in the game if possible. He and Chainer tend to be two of my biggest rez targets in the deck as people really start dropping fast if I can keep them in play. Geth's mill effect is useful and his repeated rez is incredible. I have spent several turns before just grabbing Sakura-Tribe Elders and such before just because of the silly amount of value in it.
DECK CHANGE:
Reckless Spite -> Slaughter it seems like both of these cards have sort of similar issues but I have had enough of reckless and the issues I have had with it so far. The other day, someone cast a Kozilek and all of the other creatures were black and I couldn't use reckless due to that and we sort of all died to it due to that due to the haste boots equip that followed it. They seem like similar sort of cards but I have had enough of reckless at the moment and its not working. I might end up trying to find another cheap spot removal that doesn't have the no nonblack to it but for now I just wanted a change and test something else. Slaughter has some potential to be sort of an engine for triggering toshiro triggers which is nice.
I honestly cant recall if I already cut Rescue from the Underworld from the list offhand in real life or not. Its likely on its way out though, I need to find out if I already replaced it or not though as it was on its way out last I could recall. I will try to check the list or think over its replacement for now. Its been an awkward card so far and the fact that it self exiles when it resolves was sort of the nail in the coffin for it really.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Nightmare Lash -> Pontiff of Blight I still sort of like the Lash but considering it doesn't actually come with a token attached like the Lashwrithe its been less impressive overall. I still like it but it seems like I am trying to hard to mash it together with Altar of Dementia to be honest. Artifacts dont really have a lot of synergy with the rest of the deck here so I am trying to push for higher synergy. I like the idea of Pontiff with the instants in this deck as well as with a reanimator style of build.
Rescue from the Underworld -> Sheoldred, Whispering One Rescue has just been too odd of a card really. The fact that it has a delay in its rez has been awkward more than once and I didn't realize it exiled itself on resolution making it again really awkward. Sheoldred also has some slowness to her but it seems like she could be really solid with the rez based build of this deck. She does a lot of things that I should be trying to do and she picks up triggers for Toshiro fairly nicely just by making opponents sacrifice. She has a huge target on her face but thats not all bad in a rez based deck.
Unfortunately, both of these changes push my curve higher. I want to keep testing things though and toying with the build though. Time will tell as to how it turns out. I have been thinking about trying to move rescue out of the list for far too long though to wait much longer to make a change.
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[Modern] Allies
Phyrexian Delver it sort of resembles Karmic Guide but its quite a bit worse. Karmic Guide has flying and a relevant protection. Its true that you get to keep the delver beyond the one turn without paying for an echo cost but the body on the Delver is also less relevant than the guides. It only rezes from your own graveyard and its body is mostly irrelevant. I dont much like it due to all of this. I dont foresee myself rezing the Delver over the target I actually want ever so, in a lot of ways its just not a very good style of Zombify.
Betrayal of Flesh I actually missed the fact that it works as a rez effect. Its.... something I suppose lol. It has some versatility but to be honest if I payed 6 mana for a Murder..... I would really not be happy. As a rez effect, its mostly just a little over costed. I think due to the versatility in what it can do.... it might be playable but on the low end here. If they could have shaved a mana off I would be much happier with it but it might be something worth testing due to versatility.
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[Modern] Allies
It is an option. I really dislike nonblack spot removal though when I can avoid it. I really haven't had much of an issue with mana though in this deck though to be honest. I really try to rez abuse early ramp creatures in here.
I think the last game I played I had the power to generate something like 30-40 mana on like turn 12.
When it comes to the free now and pay later spells, the big question is if you regularly cannot afford the mana to cast the spell that these effects are actually doing. For me, I regularly have the mana for the cheap kill spell so it makes it less interesting for me to run.
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[Modern] Allies
Anyway, I've found that Tragic Slip is a pretty damn good kill spell in this format.