I entered this before playtesting and changes this past weekend. I will have a more up to date link // list here shortly.
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
I suppose it depends on which you use more. if you find yourself consistently using the Storm Cauldron, then I would recommend cutting the stone. and vice versa. if you find both to be dead cards, I'd go with dropping the Lorestone for the card draw advantage of the Orrery.
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
Like you said, I tested Ghirapur Orrery over Loreseeker's Stone, and I had some very, very positive results. I started by playtesting on tappedout. Every game I had it was a blast. Some games I was able to drop it turn 1 (through a combination of rocks, like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt), in which cases I had access to a lot of mana turn 2, and some times I was even close to have an empty hand at that point, ready to draw a lot more cards. I was usually able to have no cards in hand by turn 4/5, making me draw 3 cards, then it usually took me 1/2 turns to empty it again, so I was drawing 3 cards out of it for free about each 2 turns.
One game, I manages to have this + Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine. I know it is not that likely to get this all togheter, but the strip game was real, and I kept doing this until nobody but me had lands available. Another game I was able to get this + Crucible of Worlds + Inventor's Fair, and I was tuting multiple cards because I had too much mana left.
Overall, even if the opponents can also benefit from the effects, I found that I was the one emptying my hand the first, so I was the first (and sometimes the only one) to draw cards off of this. Even if some opponents can also benefit playing an extra land, it helps us even more, so for now, I think it should be good over Loreseeker's Stone. I would still like to know other advices, if anyone tested it. Juwdah have you tested it yet? What with your actual list?
I played against a Prossh deck last night and he was stuck with a Red Elemental Blast in his hand. I dropped the Orrey turn 3 and was drawing 4 cards a turn at that point (3 plus the one per turn). Didn't bother to cast Kozilek - just Ulamog'ed and Emrakul'ed him out.
Yup. This is the card that proved to be the strongest from Kaladesh for us I think. What did you took out for it? Do you think removing Loreseeker's Stone for it is a good idea? I was often stuck with the Stone either in hand, or on the battlefield having to pay 10+ to draw 3 cards off something that is not even Kozilek...
I essentially rebuilt Kozilek and that card made it in, so I'm not sure what I took out for it. I'll post a list later today.
I'm not 100% happy with the current list, but it works well overall.
I would like to get an advice from people playing a deck close to Juwdah's one, because that is what I am playing right now. I know he personnaly wants to stay away from combo, but I want to make the deck even more competitive, and I think a Staff of Domination could be good? Now that we have access to another great tutor (Inventors' Fair) in addition to what we already have and all the crazy draw engines, having another two cards combo to generate infinite mana with Metalworker (also life and draw our entire deck) could be awesome... It can also serve as a mana sink and an outlet if we have infinite mana with the combo we already run (Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth). It can also be useful outside of combo to draw or even deal with problematic creatures by tapping them or untapping creatures to reuse an effect or even block. Also, with the ability to untap itself for only 1, it could do nice things with Clock of Omens...
My question is, what from the actual list could be removed for it? I was thinking maybe Tormod's Crypt, I know it is good to have some graveyard hate but if we play against decks that are not using their graveyard it is useless... Or Torpor Orb, but I am less sure on this one, even if it can be situational and prevents me from using Solemn Simulacrum and Myr Battlesphere, it can stop so many things, but will do nothing against some decks...
Also, would it be a good idea to reintroduce Homeward Path in the deck? I played a game today and had some hard time because a Brion Stoutarm player kept stealing my stuff (I still managed to win but would have been way easier with that land).
I would like to get an advice from people playing a deck close to Juwdah's one, because that is what I am playing right now. I know he personnaly wants to stay away from combo, but I want to make the deck even more competitive, and I think a Staff of Domination could be good? Now that we have access to another great tutor (Inventors' Fair) in addition to what we already have and all the crazy draw engines, having another two cards combo to generate infinite mana with Metalworker (also life and draw our entire deck) could be awesome... It can also serve as a mana sink and an outlet if we have infinite mana with the combo we already run (Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth). It can also be useful outside of combo to draw or even deal with problematic creatures by tapping them or untapping creatures to reuse an effect or even block. Also, with the ability to untap itself for only 1, it could do nice things with Clock of Omens...
Well, I could probably go on for a long time talking about the differences with the primer list and mine. If there are any more questions to specific card choices, just ask and I'll answer. I'm also open for any feedback. Cards of recent sets were discussed in my updates on Tappedout. I just recently included cards like Sol Ring and the like which are on the Duel Commander Banlist. Initially, I didn't include them cause the list would be way too strong but now I have other EDH decks to suit the power level of the table.
The big problem of Bottled Cloister is the drawback of losing your hand when someone destroys it when's not your turn. That's worse than any black discard and usually more common.
So... Ash Barrens is possibly the best new card from commander 2016. Which doesn't say much about the set, but I mean, what could we expect; they're trying to support 4 color decks with this set.
Armory Automaton is cute, maybe interesting tech if there's a lot of equipment in your meta.
Boompile is a fun card; one of those political multiplayer cards that let's you say "Are you sure you want to do that?" in response to whatever you don't like. Alas, it suffers from the same reason we don't like Nev's Disk/Oblivion Stone; it tends to hurt us the most with our heavy reliance on mana racks
Conqueror's Flail has a cool effect, although we're missing a good chunk of this card with our colorless deck. If you really want this effect, try Defense Grid first.
Crystalline Crawler Man, do we ever wish we could consistently use this card. Sure, Chromatic Lantern, Urborg, Coalition Relic, Gilded Lotus and so forth can help us get there, but usually it's just a 4 mana 1/1 with a very slow mana ramping ability. Just not what we want.
Prismatic Geoscope Unlike Crystalline Crawler, we can't even dream of making good use of this card. Not for us.
Ash Barrens Right, back to this card. Actually, I think this should be in our deck. I like it quite a bit better than any other land that tutors a basic land because A) You can always play it and tap it for mana and B) It's instant speed, from your hand, 1 mana tutoring.
I've tried making an argument for Terminal Moraine/Warped Landscape, but the utility of thinning your library, combining with Rings of Brighthearth, Crucible of Worlds, Sensei's Diving Top, Scroll Rack, etc was just too niche and slow. I feel Ash Barrens does a much better job at this.
All that said, it's a painless inclusion, but easily skipped.
Hey guys Ive lurked on this thread for about an hour, read a lot of what was said, Love the primer
Juwdah's Take on Kozilek is very fresh and the primer was done very well.
I'm afraid that i run a fair few more combos then his old list however, my play group are extremely competitive and Ive been driven to make the list as optimized as i can, (this means going a more stax/combo route) although most of the time my opponents concede after Ive hit them with annihilator 4 a few times (sometimes much more then annihilator 4 but you guys know how that is )
Your Kozilek deck looks alot more like my Kozilek, the Great Distortion deck. My Kozilek, the Great Distortion list (i think i've made some changes to the deck, like i don't think i still run Alhammaret's Archive... not sure.)
I made the change to the new one just because ppl were scooping after a swing since apparently its too much of a cheat to have annihilator in the commandzone, heh. But im not sad at all about the switch
Have you tried out his new version as the general for the deck? I've found him to be more fun and more... relevant? Since staxing and protecting my board feels more of an important thing than the beatdown even if that is still a big part of the deck and sort of the main wincon. But yeah, the relevant part is more relative because of my situation with my opponents.
And you do run more combos than me so it feels like you should try out the new one if you haven't, just countering things with huge card advantage, you feel like a god, and the Azami player in our group says im scary because i can counter more stuff than he can haha.
I don't see any graveyard hate, have you skipped it because its better to have a card that's relevant for you going for a combo or developing your board, or do you not face many player that plays alot with their graveyard?
How is Storage Matrix working out for you? As a staxplayer i gotta know
Oh and i see your little Static/Winter Orb package with Ring of Gix and Icy Manipulator, spicy.
And i see you're trying to foil out your deck? Im almost there and im... i don't know what to think of it anymore since the deck is worth quite a bit at this point haha...
But it sure is a fun project!
Just some stuff i thought of while not being able to sleep.
Im willing to take advice and pointers from you as well.
Yup I have tried the new Kozilek, He is very powerful, way more then most people give him credit for And I like that little unblockable interaction with silent arbiter we nearly always have enough cards in hand to have the right cmc to counter stuff and there are a bunch of other ways to draw, also his counter ability is an activated ability which means it cant be countered well, only stifle and squelch are coming to mind right now? which makes it even stronger But my group is extremely competitive and i just love Butcher of truths annihilator ability, ( ive tried both and it was very close for me.)
Storage matrix has won me a fair few games, its actually alot better then people think, it makes our opponents have to focus on what to untap and makes every turn a puzzle for them, now when you have storage matrix out with winter orb or static orb it really limits our opponents options. (sometimes ours too but not usually.)
I run a bunch of tap effects like icy manipulator and ring of gix as you have mentioned above, also blinkmoth well, clock of omens and SOD (with karn silver golem) and im about to add ward of bones and smokestack
Im also adding mox opal once i pick up a masterpiece series one.
Ive been thinking about adding Myr turbine as well because with clock of omens i can do a hell of alot of work with it
I have a Foil Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth from planar chaos coming in the mail been saving for it I really want to get mishras workshop, Forcefield, and candelebra of tawnos but they are a little to expensive for me to be able to justify to the missus sadly haha.
I suggest you could add mycosynth lattice? it makes Kozilek unblockable with tower of the magistrate? It also makes people less likely to use cards like Kalemnes captain and saying artifacts with merciless eviction. im sure you already know this (it says you used to play Karn silver golem as a general) me too it can also go crazy with clock of omens and unwinding clock.
I personally wouldnt run sandstone oracle? I used it for a while and found that it often made casting The great distortion for card advantage alot harder, because you had to empty your hand again.
I would maybe replace it with nullbrooch? so you can counter spells and it also lets you discard your hand so you can cast Kozi and draw 7 instead of the usual 5,4 or 3.
I havent added Relic of progenitus or tormods crypt because there are only a few graveyard decks in my meta and even though they are optimized i am normally fast enough to deal with them most of the time.
How is mage ring network working out for you? im personally not a fan? but ive just never liked storage lands anyway.
I see you have the mindslaver lock with crucible of worlds and buried ruin? Am i sensing a fellow blue tron player here? I was thinking of adding it to my deck im just not really sure what to take out just yet haha?
Im not a huge fan of Thoughtknot Seer in EDH i know how strong it is in other formats but im just not convinced of it in a singleton format yet.
I see you dont run staff of domination? any reason why? its so useful? and goes infinite with so many things. namely metalworker. but even without going infinite it has so much utility like getting twice as may untaps with Clock of Omens for 1 mana per extra untap? tapping down enemy creatures or drawing a card in the end of someones turn if you just have mana up and need a sink? this is why i also run tower of fortunes, its another way to go infinite and it gives me a mana sink for value if it gets to later turns. (its also a remnant from my old Karn list).
I can imagine that Forcefield with crawlspace or Silent arbiter out provides some pretty amazing defence
Also I play Cloudpost and Glimmerpost. alot of people dont but ive had tons of luck with them Thespians stage and vesuva make these really strong and they are more useful then the tron lands. I remember 1 game where i actually had Vesuva,Thespian Stage and Cloudposts all as Cloudposts while i had Stormcauldron out, now normally this would be bad for me but i had alhammarets archive out and i top decked Glimmer post, this led to me gaining 16 life every turn just off of continually using glimmerpost for mana and playing it as both of my land drops each turn even without Archive this can lead to some cool shenanigans
I also run Deserted temple and Scorched Ruins. Some people are terrified of running scorched ruins in case people 3 for 1 them but i havent had any trouble with it, maybe once or twice but not often. also with crucible of worlds there really isnt any downside.
Now i once Had scorched ruins on the field with thespian stage then i played vesuva copying thespian stage, then i made thespian stage a copy of scorched ruins and because its already on the battlefield i didnt have to sac lands so i just had 2 lands that tapped for 4, next turn i made my second thespian stage (vesuva) into one as well resulting in 12 mana from 3 lands it was pretty cool
plus with deserted temple it makes 7 mana from 2 lands
Thankyou for The Feed back and I hope you reply to this as well
Because It has a bunch of utility but equipping it to Kozilek can be brutal and sometimes put us out of reach with things like Alhammerats archive. Gaining 16 or 32 life and having a 16/16 With lifelink, Vigilance and Annihilator 4 every turn is just great value.
Its also good with every single other creature in our decks. Plus Colorless decks Generally dont have a ton of efficient ways to gain life so being able to recur a 4/4 with lifelink and vigilance is always handy. we lose alot of life to alot of our own cards so gaining it never hurts.
I get that, but I guess for me the difference between swinging for 12 and swinging for 16 is negligible. I can see why Lifelink would be handy, but it probably just depends how fast or slow the game is going. I'll give it a try. I've been running a list that's much closer to Judwah's, but I'm going to throw your variation together and see how I like it. I've recently changed store that I was playing at, and there are more players who are willing to play properly competitive, so there's a little more incentive to chuck in combos.
Is there a reason you don't run Mox Diamond and LED?
"Yup I have tried the new Kozilek, He is very powerful, way more then most people give him credit for And I like that little unblockable interaction with silent arbiter we nearly always have enough cards in hand to have the right cmc to counter stuff and there are a bunch of other ways to draw, also his counter ability is an activated ability which means it cant be countered well, only stifle and squelch are coming to mind right now? which makes it even stronger But my group is extremely competitive and i just love Butcher of truths annihilator ability, ( ive tried both and it was very close for me.) "
- i can see that, i did as well but like i said, my group did not enjoy at all to play against me, most of them whined if i attacked once.
"Storage matrix has won me a fair few games, its actually alot better then people think, it makes our opponents have to focus on what to untap and makes every turn a puzzle for them, now when you have storage matrix out with winter orb or static orb it really limits our opponents options. (sometimes ours too but not usually.)"
- i had a foiled one, too bad i got rid of it, at the time it didn't really suit my deck (this was a couple of years ago). I think im GOnna get one just in case and try it out again.
"I run a bunch of tap effects like icy manipulator and ring of gix as you have mentioned above, also blinkmoth well, clock of omens and SOD (with karn silver golem) and im about to add ward of bones and smokestack "
- Early like, turn 1/2 Ward of Bones is stupidly good.
"Ive been thinking about adding Myr turbine as well because with clock of omens i can do a hell of alot of work with it "
- I really like it, its a card that's been with me since i started playing standard. Sure, it can only fetch one creature in the deck, but its a good one. Its also really nice with Krark-Clan Ironworks
"I have a Foil Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth from planar chaos coming in the mail been saving for it I really want to get mishras workshop, Forcefield, and candelebra of tawnos but they are a little to expensive for me to be able to justify to the missus sadly haha."
- Damn, i only got the FTV one.
"I suggest you could add mycosynth lattice? it makes Kozilek unblockable with tower of the magistrate? It also makes people less likely to use cards like Kalemnes captain and saying artifacts with merciless eviction. im sure you already know this (it says you used to play Karn silver golem as a general) me too it can also go crazy with clock of omens and unwinding clock."
- Yeah, I know its good in some aspects, like pairing it together with a Energy Flux from the next player after me in an 10 man game.
But most players in our group run things like Vandal Blast, aka byebye board.
"I personally wouldnt run sandstone oracle? I used it for a while and found that it often made casting The great distortion for card advantage alot harder, because you had to empty your hand again. I would maybe replace it with nullbrooch? so you can counter spells and it also lets you discard your hand so you can cast Kozi and draw 7 instead of the usual 5,4 or 3. "
- I see what you mean, maybe i could replace it with another card, gonna look into it. I've also seen it as a nonbo with Torpor Orb. Null Brooch is in my oppinion too Risky but i've seen lists run it.
"I havent added Relic of progenitus or tormods crypt because there are only a few graveyard decks in my meta and even though they are optimized i am normally fast enough to deal with them most of the time."
- Lucky you, we got atleast one player each and every game thats' graveyardbased (and its usually the same dude.)
"How is mage ring network working out for you? im personally not a fan? but ive just never liked storage lands anyway."
- It has worked for me but i could cut it now that i think about it, i really want to try out Scorched Ruins, but the problem is most ppl in our group loves to strip mine/Ghost Quarter me.
"I see you have the mindslaver lock with crucible of worlds and buried ruin? Am i sensing a fellow blue tron player here? I was thinking of adding it to my deck im just not really sure what to take out just yet haha?"
- Its fun, it can be quite game breaking.
"Im not a huge fan of Thoughtknot Seer in EDH i know how strong it is in other formats but im just not convinced of it in a singleton format yet."
- same as Sandstone Oracle, another card im thinking of cutting but i thought that handdisruption has been a blowout some games.
"I see you dont run staff of domination? any reason why? its so useful? and goes infinite with so many things. namely metalworker. but even without going infinite it has so much utility like getting twice as may untaps with Clock of Omens for 1 mana per extra untap? tapping down enemy creatures or drawing a card in the end of someones turn if you just have mana up and need a sink? this is why i also run tower of fortunes, its another way to go infinite and it gives me a mana sink for value if it gets to later turns. (its also a remnant from my old Karn list)."
- I know but i felt it was too clunky, believe it or not, but i can look over it.
"I can imagine that Forcefield with crawlspace or Silent arbiter out provides some pretty amazing defence :)"
- i haven't tried out Crawlspace yet but yes, Taking 10 damange instead of 1000+ is great! Also my Crawlspace is in Spanish and its translated terribly wrong.
"Also I play Cloudpost and Glimmerpost. alot of people dont but ive had tons of luck with them Thespians stage and vesuva make these really strong and they are more useful then the tron lands. I remember 1 game where i actually had Vesuva,Thespian Stage and Cloudposts all as Cloudposts while i had Stormcauldron out, now normally this would be bad for me but i had alhammarets archive out and i top decked Glimmer post, this led to me gaining 16 life every turn just off of continually using glimmerpost for mana and playing it as both of my land drops each turn even without Archive this can lead to some cool shenanigans "
- I felt like i want all of my lands to enter untapped just so i can hit my curve and that would make the lands worse than random colorless land if i really need it untapped.
"Now i once Had scorched ruins on the field with thespian stage then i played vesuva copying thespian stage, then i made thespian stage a copy of scorched ruins and because its already on the battlefield i didnt have to sac lands so i just had 2 lands that tapped for 4, next turn i made my second thespian stage (vesuva) into one as well resulting in 12 mana from 3 lands it was pretty cool
plus with deserted temple it makes 7 mana from 2 lands "
- Swell
I get that, but I guess for me the difference between swinging for 12 and swinging for 16 is negligible. I can see why Lifelink would be handy, but it probably just depends how fast or slow the game is going. I'll give it a try. I've been running a list that's much closer to Judwah's, but I'm going to throw your variation together and see how I like it. I've recently changed store that I was playing at, and there are more players who are willing to play properly competitive, so there's a little more incentive to chuck in combos.
Is there a reason you don't run Mox Diamond and LED?
Atm im just trying it out since i had one laying around. I have about 4-5 spots im unsure about in my list and i felt like i wanted/Needed some Lifegain, i could be wrong tho.
I personally need 7 orf these cuz i play mono blue tron as well haha but there are some sweet new cards for us
I'm not a fan of the masterpiece foiling... Or lack thereof.
My kozilek is all 100% foiled at the moment anyway (apart from the annoying ones that were never printed in foil) so probably not gonna use any of the second set of masterpieces.
Some of the art is beautiful though, I just wish they were foiled like the expedition lands!
I agree with you, first time i got a look at a masterpiwcr card and held it in my hands it felt off. I like and prefer "true" foils, im missing a few cards right now to 100% butif i get a masterpiece cheaply that i need, sure,.i.can use it.
Omg, look at.those! I thought it was.odd that i've never seen these cards before but ofc, its new cards from aether revolt, and look at.those !!
Im mostly.talking about the untapper.but wow! "I'll play my tormod's crypt and untap all of my manarocks... play kozilek etc. Oh a mana crypt? Play, untap all of my stuff"
@rigeld , im basicly just.missing lands... and i do not.like to collect.lands because some of them are just rare...
I entered this before playtesting and changes this past weekend. I will have a more up to date link // list here shortly.
One game, I manages to have this + Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine. I know it is not that likely to get this all togheter, but the strip game was real, and I kept doing this until nobody but me had lands available. Another game I was able to get this + Crucible of Worlds + Inventor's Fair, and I was tuting multiple cards because I had too much mana left.
Overall, even if the opponents can also benefit from the effects, I found that I was the one emptying my hand the first, so I was the first (and sometimes the only one) to draw cards off of this. Even if some opponents can also benefit playing an extra land, it helps us even more, so for now, I think it should be good over Loreseeker's Stone. I would still like to know other advices, if anyone tested it. Juwdah have you tested it yet? What with your actual list?
Such. Value.
I'm not 100% happy with the current list, but it works well overall.
My question is, what from the actual list could be removed for it? I was thinking maybe Tormod's Crypt, I know it is good to have some graveyard hate but if we play against decks that are not using their graveyard it is useless... Or Torpor Orb, but I am less sure on this one, even if it can be situational and prevents me from using Solemn Simulacrum and Myr Battlesphere, it can stop so many things, but will do nothing against some decks...
Also, would it be a good idea to reintroduce Homeward Path in the deck? I played a game today and had some hard time because a Brion Stoutarm player kept stealing my stuff (I still managed to win but would have been way easier with that land).
I've been using Staff of Domination since forever. It's a vital part of many combos and the mana sink of choice. Just as another example, Staff of Domination + Sculpting Steel + Clock of Omens + any mana rock that produces 3 or more mana is a deadly infinite combo (generate infinite mana, draw your deck, ping your opponents infinite times with Staff of Nin). Karn, Silver Golem is another great combo card, e.g. with Salvaging Station and Mana Crypt. Another one would be Voltaic Construct with Metal Worker or Karn, Silver Golem + any mana rock that produces 3 or more mana. There are a lot of ways to do a more focused combo approach. If you want to go full combo Karn, Silver Golem as the commander might even be a better choice.
My list is widely different to Juwdah's one. For comparison: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-12-15-kozilek-butcher-of-truth/. I don't really understand some of his card choices, like Chromatic Lantern and Kyren Toy over Thought Vessel and Mind Stone. My deck has quite a few zero or one mana cycle artifacts which are great with Salvaging Station or Rings of Brighthearth or just to have cheap sacrifice fodder for Kuldotha Forgemaster (also Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace are a better choice than Tormod's Crypt cause you can cycle them if their effects are not needed besides their better synergy with the deck). I also got rid of all Wastes as they have been more of an annoyance and Solemn Simulacrum hasn't been that great to justify their inclusion. I'm much more a fan of all those great lands we have access to. I'm surprised by the lack of Cloud Post in the initial list. Also, Scorched Ruins has been performing greatly although it has a high risk. I didn't have great experiences with Sea Gate Wreckage as I basically never was hellbent.
Well, I could probably go on for a long time talking about the differences with the primer list and mine. If there are any more questions to specific card choices, just ask and I'll answer. I'm also open for any feedback. Cards of recent sets were discussed in my updates on Tappedout. I just recently included cards like Sol Ring and the like which are on the Duel Commander Banlist. Initially, I didn't include them cause the list would be way too strong but now I have other EDH decks to suit the power level of the table.
0 mana: Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble
1 mana: Phyrexian Furnace, Scrabbling Claws
And other great targets for Salvaging Station are Expedition Map, Triangle of War and Welding Jar.
Armory Automaton is cute, maybe interesting tech if there's a lot of equipment in your meta.
Boompile is a fun card; one of those political multiplayer cards that let's you say "Are you sure you want to do that?" in response to whatever you don't like. Alas, it suffers from the same reason we don't like Nev's Disk/Oblivion Stone; it tends to hurt us the most with our heavy reliance on mana racks
Conqueror's Flail has a cool effect, although we're missing a good chunk of this card with our colorless deck. If you really want this effect, try Defense Grid first.
Crystalline Crawler Man, do we ever wish we could consistently use this card. Sure, Chromatic Lantern, Urborg, Coalition Relic, Gilded Lotus and so forth can help us get there, but usually it's just a 4 mana 1/1 with a very slow mana ramping ability. Just not what we want.
Prismatic Geoscope Unlike Crystalline Crawler, we can't even dream of making good use of this card. Not for us.
Ash Barrens Right, back to this card. Actually, I think this should be in our deck. I like it quite a bit better than any other land that tutors a basic land because A) You can always play it and tap it for mana and B) It's instant speed, from your hand, 1 mana tutoring.
I've tried making an argument for Terminal Moraine/Warped Landscape, but the utility of thinning your library, combining with Rings of Brighthearth, Crucible of Worlds, Sensei's Diving Top, Scroll Rack, etc was just too niche and slow. I feel Ash Barrens does a much better job at this.
All that said, it's a painless inclusion, but easily skipped.
Juwdah's Take on Kozilek is very fresh and the primer was done very well.
I'm afraid that i run a fair few more combos then his old list however, my play group are extremely competitive and Ive been driven to make the list as optimized as i can, (this means going a more stax/combo route) although most of the time my opponents concede after Ive hit them with annihilator 4 a few times (sometimes much more then annihilator 4 but you guys know how that is )
This is my deck list: My Kozilek list
Please check it out guys and let me know what you think.
Your Kozilek deck looks alot more like my Kozilek, the Great Distortion deck. My Kozilek, the Great Distortion list (i think i've made some changes to the deck, like i don't think i still run Alhammaret's Archive... not sure.)
I made the change to the new one just because ppl were scooping after a swing since apparently its too much of a cheat to have annihilator in the commandzone, heh. But im not sad at all about the switch
Have you tried out his new version as the general for the deck? I've found him to be more fun and more... relevant? Since staxing and protecting my board feels more of an important thing than the beatdown even if that is still a big part of the deck and sort of the main wincon. But yeah, the relevant part is more relative because of my situation with my opponents.
And you do run more combos than me so it feels like you should try out the new one if you haven't, just countering things with huge card advantage, you feel like a god, and the Azami player in our group says im scary because i can counter more stuff than he can haha.
One thing im concerned about is your landcount. You don't run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to enable your Maze of Ith and Eye of Ugin to tap for mana (and Urborg is even better when your opponent runs Cabal Coffersand you're already running Vesuva AND Thespian's Stage ). But you do run Chromatic Lantern, which is quite nice.
I don't see any graveyard hate, have you skipped it because its better to have a card that's relevant for you going for a combo or developing your board, or do you not face many player that plays alot with their graveyard?
How is Storage Matrix working out for you? As a staxplayer i gotta know
Oh and i see your little Static/Winter Orb package with Ring of Gix and Icy Manipulator, spicy.
And i see you're trying to foil out your deck? Im almost there and im... i don't know what to think of it anymore since the deck is worth quite a bit at this point haha...
But it sure is a fun project!
Just some stuff i thought of while not being able to sleep.
Im willing to take advice and pointers from you as well.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Where to start? haha
Yup I have tried the new Kozilek, He is very powerful, way more then most people give him credit for And I like that little unblockable interaction with silent arbiter we nearly always have enough cards in hand to have the right cmc to counter stuff and there are a bunch of other ways to draw, also his counter ability is an activated ability which means it cant be countered well, only stifle and squelch are coming to mind right now? which makes it even stronger But my group is extremely competitive and i just love Butcher of truths annihilator ability, ( ive tried both and it was very close for me.)
Storage matrix has won me a fair few games, its actually alot better then people think, it makes our opponents have to focus on what to untap and makes every turn a puzzle for them, now when you have storage matrix out with winter orb or static orb it really limits our opponents options. (sometimes ours too but not usually.)
I run a bunch of tap effects like icy manipulator and ring of gix as you have mentioned above, also blinkmoth well, clock of omens and SOD (with karn silver golem) and im about to add ward of bones and smokestack
Im also adding mox opal once i pick up a masterpiece series one.
Ive been thinking about adding Myr turbine as well because with clock of omens i can do a hell of alot of work with it
I have a Foil Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth from planar chaos coming in the mail been saving for it I really want to get mishras workshop, Forcefield, and candelebra of tawnos but they are a little to expensive for me to be able to justify to the missus sadly haha.
I suggest you could add mycosynth lattice? it makes Kozilek unblockable with tower of the magistrate? It also makes people less likely to use cards like Kalemnes captain and saying artifacts with merciless eviction. im sure you already know this (it says you used to play Karn silver golem as a general) me too it can also go crazy with clock of omens and unwinding clock.
I personally wouldnt run sandstone oracle? I used it for a while and found that it often made casting The great distortion for card advantage alot harder, because you had to empty your hand again.
I would maybe replace it with nullbrooch? so you can counter spells and it also lets you discard your hand so you can cast Kozi and draw 7 instead of the usual 5,4 or 3.
I havent added Relic of progenitus or tormods crypt because there are only a few graveyard decks in my meta and even though they are optimized i am normally fast enough to deal with them most of the time.
How is mage ring network working out for you? im personally not a fan? but ive just never liked storage lands anyway.
I see you have the mindslaver lock with crucible of worlds and buried ruin? Am i sensing a fellow blue tron player here? I was thinking of adding it to my deck im just not really sure what to take out just yet haha?
Im not a huge fan of Thoughtknot Seer in EDH i know how strong it is in other formats but im just not convinced of it in a singleton format yet.
I see you dont run staff of domination? any reason why? its so useful? and goes infinite with so many things. namely metalworker. but even without going infinite it has so much utility like getting twice as may untaps with Clock of Omens for 1 mana per extra untap? tapping down enemy creatures or drawing a card in the end of someones turn if you just have mana up and need a sink? this is why i also run tower of fortunes, its another way to go infinite and it gives me a mana sink for value if it gets to later turns. (its also a remnant from my old Karn list).
I can imagine that Forcefield with crawlspace or Silent arbiter out provides some pretty amazing defence
Also I play Cloudpost and Glimmerpost. alot of people dont but ive had tons of luck with them Thespians stage and vesuva make these really strong and they are more useful then the tron lands. I remember 1 game where i actually had Vesuva,Thespian Stage and Cloudposts all as Cloudposts while i had Stormcauldron out, now normally this would be bad for me but i had alhammarets archive out and i top decked Glimmer post, this led to me gaining 16 life every turn just off of continually using glimmerpost for mana and playing it as both of my land drops each turn even without Archive this can lead to some cool shenanigans
I also run Deserted temple and Scorched Ruins. Some people are terrified of running scorched ruins in case people 3 for 1 them but i havent had any trouble with it, maybe once or twice but not often. also with crucible of worlds there really isnt any downside.
Now i once Had scorched ruins on the field with thespian stage then i played vesuva copying thespian stage, then i made thespian stage a copy of scorched ruins and because its already on the battlefield i didnt have to sac lands so i just had 2 lands that tapped for 4, next turn i made my second thespian stage (vesuva) into one as well resulting in 12 mana from 3 lands it was pretty cool
plus with deserted temple it makes 7 mana from 2 lands
Thankyou for The Feed back and I hope you reply to this as well
Its also good with every single other creature in our decks. Plus Colorless decks Generally dont have a ton of efficient ways to gain life so being able to recur a 4/4 with lifelink and vigilance is always handy. we lose alot of life to alot of our own cards so gaining it never hurts.
Is there a reason you don't run Mox Diamond and LED?
- i can see that, i did as well but like i said, my group did not enjoy at all to play against me, most of them whined if i attacked once.
"Storage matrix has won me a fair few games, its actually alot better then people think, it makes our opponents have to focus on what to untap and makes every turn a puzzle for them, now when you have storage matrix out with winter orb or static orb it really limits our opponents options. (sometimes ours too but not usually.)"
- i had a foiled one, too bad i got rid of it, at the time it didn't really suit my deck (this was a couple of years ago). I think im GOnna get one just in case and try it out again.
"I run a bunch of tap effects like icy manipulator and ring of gix as you have mentioned above, also blinkmoth well, clock of omens and SOD (with karn silver golem) and im about to add ward of bones and smokestack "
- Early like, turn 1/2 Ward of Bones is stupidly good.
"Ive been thinking about adding Myr turbine as well because with clock of omens i can do a hell of alot of work with it "
- I really like it, its a card that's been with me since i started playing standard. Sure, it can only fetch one creature in the deck, but its a good one. Its also really nice with Krark-Clan Ironworks
"I have a Foil Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth from planar chaos coming in the mail been saving for it I really want to get mishras workshop, Forcefield, and candelebra of tawnos but they are a little to expensive for me to be able to justify to the missus sadly haha."
- Damn, i only got the FTV one.
"I suggest you could add mycosynth lattice? it makes Kozilek unblockable with tower of the magistrate? It also makes people less likely to use cards like Kalemnes captain and saying artifacts with merciless eviction. im sure you already know this (it says you used to play Karn silver golem as a general) me too it can also go crazy with clock of omens and unwinding clock."
- Yeah, I know its good in some aspects, like pairing it together with a Energy Flux from the next player after me in an 10 man game.
But most players in our group run things like Vandal Blast, aka byebye board.
"I personally wouldnt run sandstone oracle? I used it for a while and found that it often made casting The great distortion for card advantage alot harder, because you had to empty your hand again. I would maybe replace it with nullbrooch? so you can counter spells and it also lets you discard your hand so you can cast Kozi and draw 7 instead of the usual 5,4 or 3. "
- I see what you mean, maybe i could replace it with another card, gonna look into it. I've also seen it as a nonbo with Torpor Orb.
Null Brooch is in my oppinion too Risky but i've seen lists run it.
"I havent added Relic of progenitus or tormods crypt because there are only a few graveyard decks in my meta and even though they are optimized i am normally fast enough to deal with them most of the time."
- Lucky you, we got atleast one player each and every game thats' graveyardbased (and its usually the same dude.)
"How is mage ring network working out for you? im personally not a fan? but ive just never liked storage lands anyway."
- It has worked for me but i could cut it now that i think about it, i really want to try out Scorched Ruins, but the problem is most ppl in our group loves to strip mine/Ghost Quarter me.
"I see you have the mindslaver lock with crucible of worlds and buried ruin? Am i sensing a fellow blue tron player here? I was thinking of adding it to my deck im just not really sure what to take out just yet haha?"
- Its fun, it can be quite game breaking.
"Im not a huge fan of Thoughtknot Seer in EDH i know how strong it is in other formats but im just not convinced of it in a singleton format yet."
- same as Sandstone Oracle, another card im thinking of cutting but i thought that handdisruption has been a blowout some games.
"I see you dont run staff of domination? any reason why? its so useful? and goes infinite with so many things. namely metalworker. but even without going infinite it has so much utility like getting twice as may untaps with Clock of Omens for 1 mana per extra untap? tapping down enemy creatures or drawing a card in the end of someones turn if you just have mana up and need a sink? this is why i also run tower of fortunes, its another way to go infinite and it gives me a mana sink for value if it gets to later turns. (its also a remnant from my old Karn list)."
- I know but i felt it was too clunky, believe it or not, but i can look over it.
"I can imagine that Forcefield with crawlspace or Silent arbiter out provides some pretty amazing defence :)"
- i haven't tried out Crawlspace yet but yes, Taking 10 damange instead of 1000+ is great! Also my Crawlspace is in Spanish and its translated terribly wrong.
"Also I play Cloudpost and Glimmerpost. alot of people dont but ive had tons of luck with them Thespians stage and vesuva make these really strong and they are more useful then the tron lands. I remember 1 game where i actually had Vesuva,Thespian Stage and Cloudposts all as Cloudposts while i had Stormcauldron out, now normally this would be bad for me but i had alhammarets archive out and i top decked Glimmer post, this led to me gaining 16 life every turn just off of continually using glimmerpost for mana and playing it as both of my land drops each turn even without Archive this can lead to some cool shenanigans "
- I felt like i want all of my lands to enter untapped just so i can hit my curve and that would make the lands worse than random colorless land if i really need it untapped.
"Now i once Had scorched ruins on the field with thespian stage then i played vesuva copying thespian stage, then i made thespian stage a copy of scorched ruins and because its already on the battlefield i didnt have to sac lands so i just had 2 lands that tapped for 4, next turn i made my second thespian stage (vesuva) into one as well resulting in 12 mana from 3 lands it was pretty cool
plus with deserted temple it makes 7 mana from 2 lands "
- Swell
Atm im just trying it out since i had one laying around. I have about 4-5 spots im unsure about in my list and i felt like i wanted/Needed some Lifegain, i could be wrong tho.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Our wallets are going to hurt.
I personally need 7 orf these cuz i play mono blue tron as well haha but there are some sweet new cards for us
I agree with you, first time i got a look at a masterpiwcr card and held it in my hands it felt off. I like and prefer "true" foils, im missing a few cards right now to 100% butif i get a masterpiece cheaply that i need, sure,.i.can use it.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Ugh. Foiling some things like Metalworker is going to *hurt*.
Omg, look at.those! I thought it was.odd that i've never seen these cards before but ofc, its new cards from aether revolt, and look at.those !!
Im mostly.talking about the untapper.but wow! "I'll play my tormod's crypt and untap all of my manarocks... play kozilek etc. Oh a mana crypt? Play, untap all of my stuff"
@rigeld , im basicly just.missing lands... and i do not.like to collect.lands because some of them are just rare...
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer