Some one told me in a tournament recently, "Wow, you're still playing Animar?" ... "I didn't know people still did that." ... "I thought that deck sucked now."
In other news I may be posting my list soon as I am stuck on a few cuts.
Animar is still great just not as amazing without Titan
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
What? Animar has always been excellant, no matter what big creature you cut. Besides Animar the best card in the set is Bloom Tender, it was never Prime Time.
bloom tender on turn 2 means you get animar on turn 3 and 3 colored mana from the tender... sage cant compete with that, however saying bloom tender is better than prime time is absurd..... no.1 hes card advantage, 2 hes acceleration, 3 hes a tutor that beats 4 hes a win condition 5 he was so good they killed him. bloom tender beats out orcish lumberjack by a narrow margin as the best accelerant for the deck but in world is bloom tender superior to primevial titan. i play sage but its mostly to play pestermite then i untap it to play kikki
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
I disagree that Animar has one card that is a clutch to his power. His power is his ability to make creatures cheaper, grow himself, and his protection from removal colors. He will only continue to get better as wizards print more and more creatures. Can anyone imagine if wizards prints Cloudstone on a body??? What about Time Warp on a body??? Also, imagine all the different directions you can take Animar and the decks are built around him, not his colors.
i agree animar is a great commander, he's my favorite, and your right, how about a draw x creature? or even if enshrined memories was a creature, all i was saying about primevial titan is that without it the deck isn't so intimidating and it also lost one of its strongest paths to victory. animar is very strong and there's a hand full of good win conditions, but a 6 mana win condition that was a creature was nice, it impacted my deck so heavily when he was banned that i took out gaeas cradle, crop rotation, cloud of faireies, and other cards because i just didn't feel the whole package was strong enough with out titan tutoring it up. but overall i agree keep playing animar and even if you don't keep the cards because he's only gonna get better, in my opinion losing erayo and sylvan primordial to bans didnt set me back as much as gaining bane of progress set me ahead, i guess we'll all just have to wait and see what the future holds.
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
The reason why Bloom Tender is better than Prime Time has nothing to do with the "real" power level of any of the cards in question, rather it has to with understanding how Animar plays. Animar is principally an aggro deck, with the ability to combo a natural biproduct of how aggressively Animar produces mana. Cards which build on Animar's ability to produce mana are thus going to be the best cards in the deck, cards like Bloom Tender or Palinchron. The "real" value of these creatures' bodies is largely irrelevant, it is simply their ability to push us over that enables victory. Size is meaningless at six mana, as you are either winning or losing by that point. If you are winning size is just win more, and if you are losing size is useless next to distruption. Animar naturally produces all the size you need to win. In fact you needn't attack with any other creature other than Animar and assuming you will even be able to is overly optimistic. As such Prime Time in Animar actually reads "4GG: Search and play two lands", in much the same way Bloom Tender actually reads "1G: At the beginning of your next turn's main phase, add three colored mana of your choice to your mana pool". Now you tell me which is better, 3 mana for 2 or 2 mana for 6?
Note that nowhere did I say Prime Time was bad, or that if it were legal I wouldn't run it, rather my argument is that Bloom Tender is a far superior card in Animar. I am also not saying that Bloom Tender is the "key card" of the deck.
If you really want to get better at building and playing Animar, try using these principals to evaluate cards both in play and in deck construction:
1) Size doesn't matter.
2) Cmc DOES matter.
3) If it costs 6, it better win.
4) Drawing lands is not card advantage.
saying prime time costs 6 and produces 2 is the most absurd thing ive ever heard. it only fetches cradle, strip, a cradle copy, or eye of ugin prime time ends up costing 2 and usually produces in excess of 6 mana or produces an eldrazi. not to mention bloom tender is trash once you have all the mana you need to win and you need to win. prime time can get you the mana you need to win or win itself by searching for eye of ugin and cradle or it can give you the tempo you need by pulling waste and strip and setting you way ahead of your opponent, however were really comparing apples and oranges, and the point is moot considering titan is banned, i just cant let it rest that you actually think bloom tender is better for animar than tiitan. i mean bloom tender is one of my all time favorites to see in my opening hand, but if your a good animar pilot with a balanced list, prime time should be more like palinchron, if it resolves, you should win. on another topic however, if you advocate bloomtender so heavily how do you feel about orcish lumberjack
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
I don't run Cradle or the Eldrazi Titans because they should be on the ban list. They are utterly broken and unfun cards which should never have seen print.
The nice thing about the Animar combo is that it is an interactive combo. No matter what you still need to cast your creatures, which means giving up priority. Nothing instantly wins you the game, especially not against good opponents. Prime Time is probably the weakest of the big mana producers (after Great Whale and Palinchron) and does nothing for us early.
Orcish Lumberjack is a completely silly comparison, and shows me you haven't actually played the deck against tough opponents. Losing even a single land puts us so far behind that we might as well give up. EDH is a format defined by free mana, which in our case is provided by Animar. However most free mana is colourless, when we need coloured mana to actually play. As I pointed out earlier there really isn't any way to win with the drop of a hat with Animar, meaning that spending lands for mana just isn't worthwhile.
dude you totally need to revise your deck if you think animar cant win at the drop of a hat, early game if an opponent only has 1-2 blockers imperial recruiter should win, late game even without animar on the field palinchron can work you to having a lethal animar, at anytime if you resolve a kiki jiki you should win, if i resolve a living wish, i usually win,i mean bro seriously, its RUG? you dont even need animar to win. pretty much a good animar list ONLY wins at the drop of a hat. the whole deck is designed around an engine called animar, why use it for synergy cards when that engine could be fueling bombs? i only run 33 lands and sacing them to lumberjack is great for me because that 3 mana either plays the tutor that wins, or the card that wins. i mean you can tap the land first so your producing 4 colored mana from the land, that land just did its job it can r.i.p. don't you think? i mean that's so explosive it should fuel a large portion of a large turn or get the board ready for something crazy to pop off after you untap. using your animar himself as anything more than ramp or lucky wins is a bit silly, i mean like your opponent didnt see that coming, hell one of my favorite plays used to be birthing pod on animar to hit combo pieces. i mean you say some off the wall stuff dude, you actually just said you didnt play cards because there too good. that's nuts. and yes i play against great opponents every week at an fnm with abt 30 people and placed in the top 5 every week this year. with the list in my signature.
URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
Woah. Blistering commentary. Feelings can still be hurt, even over the internet. But that's enough of my moral arbitration.
So I've looked at the OP and a few of the pages here, and I wanted to know if Deadeye Navigator had been considered and why he didn't make the cut. I'm pretty sure it's been talked about, so if there's a pg. number for me to go to I'd appreciate that. My friend has almost this exact list and I've grown to be quite comfortable in playing against it as it relies ehavily on Animar being in play. Red Elemental Blast in my Kaalia list has performed extraordinarily well, but that's because my meta is flooded with blue.
This is what I say in the OP: "I can see the potential he has to gain huge advantage from enter the battlefield effects, to protect creatures from spot removal (although not Animar, because he doesn't want to lose all his counters) and generate infinite mana combined with Palinchron (or other 'free' creatures) but I think at this stage he wouldn't facilitate anything the deck can't already do."
I think a major issue is the the cost 1U is often more expensive than bouncing and recasting using Cloudstone Curio and Animar's discount. Deadeye Navigator feels like it would work better in decks without Animar or simply as redundancy in case Animar never sticks.
I get that gelf, but considering we have no way to tutor for cloudstone that I've noticed isn't redundancy more important especially since we can tutor for dead eye?
Deadeye combos with Great Whale/Palinchron without the need for Cloudstone + Animar. Indeed any of the manatrip creatures work, Cloud of Faeries just needs a single Karoo to go infinite. People here are always talking about a need for an Animar backup, and I think Deadeye fills that role much better than any other creature.
I think Kruphix, God of Horizons fills in as a nice back-up as well. It actually faciliates all the other back-up win cons, fueling the colorless in the cc's of Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator.
I know most don't run Navigator because it's such a cheesy win, but I don't care. I like winning.
Hmm. Reading is tech. I guess I glossed over that part in the OP. It seems that Deadeye would still be a good thing that increases the resiliency of the deck in the late game. Animar, at least in my group, is always dead the turn after he ETB. And very frequently Animar dies a second time and then the Animar player just sadly watches while the rest of us play Magic. But then again, the Animar player plays only 31 lands, so I am definitely a little jaded in my opinions/observations of Animar. Deadeye would help increase the power of already powerful cards, giving some late game reach if the game ever goes that long. How long do games usually last for people here?
Just a note on sphere effects. They actually aren't completely mitigated by Animar as the cost reductions are applied before additional costs. So an Elvish Visionary for example would be reduced to G and then the additional cost would be applied so it would still cost 1G.
Now sphere effects would most likely still hinder the opponents more but they will still slow you down as well so that's something to keep in mind if you want to try them out.
Edit: Turns out it's the other way around. You add then subtract costs changers so Lodestone Golem could be decent.
I know someone in this thread had mentioned an artifact centric Animar build before and Lodestone Golem would be great there.
Hmm. Reading is tech. I guess I glossed over that part in the OP. It seems that Deadeye would still be a good thing that increases the resiliency of the deck in the late game. Animar, at least in my group, is always dead the turn after he ETB. And very frequently Animar dies a second time and then the Animar player just sadly watches while the rest of us play Magic. But then again, the Animar player plays only 31 lands, so I am definitely a little jaded in my opinions/observations of Animar. Deadeye would help increase the power of already powerful cards, giving some late game reach if the game ever goes that long. How long do games usually last for people here?
31 lands in a 3 color deck that is as color mana hungry as animar? That's bonkers. I have never missed deadeye in my build but I may throw him in to test him out.
Shaman of the Great Hunt - Assuming you've got him and Animar out, at the very least you'll be drawing two cards per activation, which seems pretty cool. Is he a bit winmore though?
I've been testing him out and he is just that. It's usually 2 cards which is nice, but a little lackluster. It's been especially nice when you empty your hand but then you use your G and U mana so you have to wait to cast the goodies you draw.
Lodestone Golem - I had never considered it before, but this guy can really slow some decks down whilst being completely mitigated by Animar. Is he worth the slot? If so, by extension could there be some benefit to adding some other Sphere cards too?
I hadn't thought about taxes. I like the fact that it really wouldn't affect me (10 non-creatures) I'm interested ok others opinions.
Lodestone Golem affects our creatures as well, and we run almost zero artifacts. Sphere of Resistance may be tempting but I believe we are better served keeping our non-creature spells to a minimum, for those running a more budget build though, this could work in replacement of one of the more expensive enchantments. just my opinion
I like Shaman of the Great Hunt: it may cost just for a drawing engine and dealing combat damage also with a 1/1 creature may be funny if Hardened Scales is in play.
Lodestone Golem is a creature, so it may always fit in an Animar deck. But I personally prefere a more aggro-like build, so it doesn't fit quite good for a 4 cc.
Everybody hates me for it.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
In other news I may be posting my list soon as I am stuck on a few cuts.
URGAnimar, Soul of Elements
WBRKaalia of the Vast
GGGFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
RGWHazezon Tamar
RUWNarset, Enlightened Master
BGBVarolz, the Scar-Striped
BWBAthreos, God of Passage
RRRDaretti, Scrap Savant
My 450 Unpowered Cube
My cube on CubeTutor
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
I think it has more to do with one being 2cc and the other being 3cc and thus competing with animar itself.
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
URGAnimar, Soul of Elements
WBRKaalia of the Vast
GGGFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
RGWHazezon Tamar
RUWNarset, Enlightened Master
BGBVarolz, the Scar-Striped
BWBAthreos, God of Passage
RRRDaretti, Scrap Savant
My 450 Unpowered Cube
My cube on CubeTutor
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
Note that nowhere did I say Prime Time was bad, or that if it were legal I wouldn't run it, rather my argument is that Bloom Tender is a far superior card in Animar. I am also not saying that Bloom Tender is the "key card" of the deck.
If you really want to get better at building and playing Animar, try using these principals to evaluate cards both in play and in deck construction:
1) Size doesn't matter.
2) Cmc DOES matter.
3) If it costs 6, it better win.
4) Drawing lands is not card advantage.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
The nice thing about the Animar combo is that it is an interactive combo. No matter what you still need to cast your creatures, which means giving up priority. Nothing instantly wins you the game, especially not against good opponents. Prime Time is probably the weakest of the big mana producers (after Great Whale and Palinchron) and does nothing for us early.
Orcish Lumberjack is a completely silly comparison, and shows me you haven't actually played the deck against tough opponents. Losing even a single land puts us so far behind that we might as well give up. EDH is a format defined by free mana, which in our case is provided by Animar. However most free mana is colourless, when we need coloured mana to actually play. As I pointed out earlier there really isn't any way to win with the drop of a hat with Animar, meaning that spending lands for mana just isn't worthwhile.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
So I've looked at the OP and a few of the pages here, and I wanted to know if Deadeye Navigator had been considered and why he didn't make the cut. I'm pretty sure it's been talked about, so if there's a pg. number for me to go to I'd appreciate that. My friend has almost this exact list and I've grown to be quite comfortable in playing against it as it relies ehavily on Animar being in play. Red Elemental Blast in my Kaalia list has performed extraordinarily well, but that's because my meta is flooded with blue.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think a major issue is the the cost 1U is often more expensive than bouncing and recasting using Cloudstone Curio and Animar's discount. Deadeye Navigator feels like it would work better in decks without Animar or simply as redundancy in case Animar never sticks.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
I know most don't run Navigator because it's such a cheesy win, but I don't care. I like winning.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Just a note on sphere effects. They actually aren't completely mitigated by Animar as the cost reductions are applied before additional costs. So an Elvish Visionary for example would be reduced to G and then the additional cost would be applied so it would still cost 1G.
Now sphere effects would most likely still hinder the opponents more but they will still slow you down as well so that's something to keep in mind if you want to try them out.
Edit: Turns out it's the other way around. You add then subtract costs changers so Lodestone Golem could be decent.
I know someone in this thread had mentioned an artifact centric Animar build before and Lodestone Golem would be great there.
31 lands in a 3 color deck that is as color mana hungry as animar? That's bonkers. I have never missed deadeye in my build but I may throw him in to test him out.
I've been testing him out and he is just that. It's usually 2 cards which is nice, but a little lackluster. It's been especially nice when you empty your hand but then you use your G and U mana so you have to wait to cast the goodies you draw.
I hadn't thought about taxes. I like the fact that it really wouldn't affect me (10 non-creatures) I'm interested ok others opinions.
URGAnimar, Soul of Elements
WBRKaalia of the Vast
GGGFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
RGWHazezon Tamar
RUWNarset, Enlightened Master
BGBVarolz, the Scar-Striped
BWBAthreos, God of Passage
RRRDaretti, Scrap Savant
My 450 Unpowered Cube
My cube on CubeTutor
Lodestone Golem is a creature, so it may always fit in an Animar deck. But I personally prefere a more aggro-like build, so it doesn't fit quite good for a 4 cc.
Tiny - Yasova