Guys what are your thoughts on Cryptolithrite? I currently run Earthcraft, but this new card looks even better. Would you guys run this in a not too competitive version of Animar?
Earthcraft is way better because your creatures don't need haste to use it. But could definitely find a spot in a less combo focused deck. Pairs well with Maelstrom Wanderer!
URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
As I've mentioned Animar is in storage so I'm not able to play the deck for a few months, but these are the cards from SOI that caught my eye:
Sin Prodder - I think this card is a trap. An opponent could and likely would deny you land draws for the rest of the game if that's what you're revealing. This isn't necessarily bad, provided you didn't drop Sin Prodder too early, but if you need those lands it does more harm than good. Likewise if a combo piece is revealed, an opponent would take damage instead of letting you win the game. No doubt Sin Prodder lets you see more cards and may at times do a Phyrexian Arena impression, but I don't like giving my opponents control over what goes into my hand, even if they do take a bit of damage while doing it. Ultimately in blue and green there are far better draw options that we don't really need to consider this little devil.
Cryptolith Rite - A fair impression of Earthcraft, although requiring creatures to have haste or survive a turn is a significant disadvantage over Earthcraft itself. Still I'd recommend it if Earthcraft is not an option.
Obsessive Skinner - Another trap. While an extra +1/+1 counter on each opponents upkeep seems good, this deck will struggle to activate Delirium with it's very low number of enchantment, sorcery and instant cards. It's not worth trying to accommodate delirium in this deck.
Tireless Tracker - A creature that generates incidental card draw is good. While I'm not a fan of the activation cost to draw cards, this Scout can offer some decent board wipe protection by generating a bunch of Clues as we go about our normal business. If everything goes bad, at least we can spend a turn refilling our hand later on. I think I'll value this creature in my Torsten Von Ursus ramp deck more, but he's worth considering at least as a creature that sort of 'slow cantrips.' It may be worth considering the othergreen and blue creatures that investigate, in the same light.
Traverse the Ulvenwald - It's a trap! Most of the time we won't be able to activate delirium to get the awesome tutor effect.
Ulvenwald Hydra - It can find Gaea's Cradle, so it probably deserves a spot in the deck. Of course it's nearly impossible to fit anything else in the 6 cmc spot, so I don't know how we'll fit it in. Let me know what you cut to get it in there! Cloudstone Curio shenanigans with this guy can get every land out of the deck, which incidentally also makes it huge.
Altered Ego - A clone with multiple upsides and considerable synergy with Animar. Not sure I'd be in a rush to find a spot for it in the deck, but if you're still running Clone, please replace it with Altered Ego.
Sage of Ancient Lore // Werewolf of Ancient Hunger - Most importantly it draws a card when it enters the battlefield and unlike other Elvish Visionary look-a-likes, it has the potential to be a decent size. If it ever flips (unlikely in multiplayer and especially Animar which loves to chain multiple spells together) it will likely be an enormous trampling beat stick.
Game Trail - I think this is probably worse than Copperline Gorge in terms of the likelihood of coming into play untapped. Probably pass on this, but maybe it gets better if you play the karoo bounce lands along with all the 'Forest Mountain' duel lands? It will likely be a decent budget choice if you need it.
I have tested alter ego and decided I prefer clones with a lone colored mana cost when available. Dacks duplicate is worth it to me personally, but not alter ego. I have had it resolve with free counters and it be a non issue because I was steam rolling my opponent. but there was also a moment where I couldn't cast it and the other card I needed to. It's still sleeved up but I'm going with gigantoplam in the long run
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
I see Seasons past as an amazing rebuild card. After a few wipes you'll have lots of targets. Its more of a just-incase card. I've always liked and added "plan b" into decks I build. It has great synergy no matter what though.
@trmptdrummernature's resurgence draws for your opponent as well, but it will probably net more cards, and for less, in a post wrath scenario
@Agentwise yes you build up a pool of infinite mana by return/casting peregrine drake, cast the hoverguard enough times to retun all their creatures, cast him repeatedly targeting himself till animar has infinite counters, then swing for the win. or use your mana/bounce engine to cast empath/recruiter for a better win condition that circumvents any opposition your opponent may have in place
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URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
Seems to me like you have to bounce the initial Hoverguard Sweepers instead of an opponent's creature with its own trigger and then use it to bounce itself and Peregrine Drake afterward, requiring all three blue mana to come from lands, otherwise you'll end up casting your Drake, untapping five lands, and being completely unable to do anything else.
Sorry, haven't been on MTGS for a while. I had Step 4 wrong. You don't bounce an opponent's creature, you bounce Sweepers back along with Metamorph. Once you have Drake, you bounce Drake + Sweepers until you have infinite mana. Then you can start casting Hoverguard, bouncing itself + an opponent's creature. Sorry about that.
On the topic of seasons past, i'm not sure I can be excited about a 6 mana sorcery. However, it is an amazing 6 mana sorcery. definitely on that list with cards like all sun's dawn, mangara's tome, grinning totem, cintanual flute that i really wish i had a place for in edh, but i really just don't. makes me wish people i knew still played 5-color. or hi-5 better yet.
on the hoverguard sweepers topic. I once replaced palinchron with this guy for a couple of months. he sounds amazing with animar, a reusable bounce engine that stays in the hand, or a combo piece. the problem is at a whopping 8 mana he's is a 100% dead draw if you're not already winning and kiri-onna is cheaper to hard cast while still possesing the best facet of hoverguard's utility. the ability to interact with your opponents board. kiri fits into the imperial recruiter chain and still removes the same amount of permanents. kiri-onna costs 2 counter 4 life and RRUUU whereas the way I played hoverguard sweeper cost 4 counters 2 life and RRUUU. It just really wasn't the best choice in any scenario. unless i was doing it incorrectly. Not to mention you usually have to burn a set up tutor to search for the sweepers or pay a G to incorporate fierce empath into the chain.
What was your Sweepers chain? My Recruiter chain with Sweepers costs UUURG + 4 life + 3 counters to start. But only beginning with Recruiter. You don't need to "burn a tutor" as the G for Empath is already in the chain cost. So it looks like our Sweepers chains must have differed.
That Kiri chain costs RRUUU + 4 life, but requires only 2 counters to start. So it's easier in that it requires 1 less counter, but harder in that RR is much harder than RG. Kiri also requires Dead-Eye Navigator as another slot which isn't something I'd run. But yes it's a very nice chain to know about!
I duno about Nissa but I ran Natural Order for about a year before finally cutting it. It's just an awkward card in this deck. It doesnt really grab a combo enabler and at most it grabs you like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger on turn two. Which has won me games admittedly but that was what I would consider its 'peak'
Anyone else have experience with it can probably tell you the same.
Also if it helps I play an extremely fast combo version of Animar as my playgroup is very competitive.
Seems overkill-ish, unless they have a "sacrifice a permanent:" effect or a life draining cost, then I personally don't see myself making a place for this card.
The on cast effect doesn't really allow for abuse the same way Kozilek and Ulamog do.
If you have multiple opponents you can bounce her to target each of them, but you're still giving them each a turn after the turn you've taken control, so there isn't much value in looping her. If I understand correctly, you target opponent A, B and C in your turn, then take A's turn, then A gets an additional turn, then B's turn, then B gets and additional turn, etc. There is a lot of room for things to go wrong during those interactions, barring the possibility of warping the deck around new Emrakul by including things like Ugin's Nexus or Stranglehold to prevent the extra turns taking effect.
A 13/13 flying trampler is alright if you have a haste enabler, but I don't like my creatures just to be beaters. Protection from Instants is good, but in the world of EDH not really good enough to guarantee she'll stick around to bring the beats (glad she's immune to Tragic Slip though).
The cost reduction ability, while great for other decks (particularly graveyard decks) is pretty irrelevant when Animar is in play.
I don't think she will make the grade for combo Animar, even if he can get a 13/13 for free. If you want a big beater, I would recommend Blightsteel Colossus first.
So, do we take out the titans and just run them in the sideboard with stuff like Mystical Tutor and Coax from the Blind Eternities? Could have basically an Eldrazi toolbox for the situation needed.
I still have yet to play in a meta that even does sideboards, and I've played at almost every shop in Houston, Chicago and Omaha.
Even if I did, personally I would have no intention of taking my Titans out of the main deck. They serve a purpose other than just dropping them for total ruination. They prevent mill strategies and other shenanigans.
Good point on the mill. You'd want to keep one in there for that. We allow a 10-card sideboard when we play but usually it's done prior to even commanders being announced, as we generally know what people are playing.
Maybe this card could be slightly interesting because you may cast it for free (if Animar has 7+ counters on it) and draw a card, which could be very good with Cloudstone Curio in play, but I've got an academic question:
is also the Emerge cost reduced by Animar ability?
E.g. if I have Animar with 5 counters could I pay just and sacrifice a creature to cast it?
(I know that it needs just one counter more on Animar to cast Wretched Gryff without having to sacrifice a creature, that's why I've labeled that question as "academic" ).
Edit: I forgot that the emerging cost is reduced by the sacrificed creature's mana cost, so that would mean playing it for just if Anymar has 2+ counters and the creature's cmc was 3+.
That would create this combo:
Animar reduces alternative casting costs, yes. I was considering the Gryff as well but I think I'd rather just have Mulldrifter almost 100% of the time and I don't have anything I'd be willing to cut for it, since it's a 7-drop without Animar.
It has the nice effect to put a card back on top of the opponent's library.
A 5/4 for 8 mana may be too costly, but it's colorless. And it has emerge, which may speed it a bit.
Not sold. This is only two counters (or mana) away from being Ulamog instead, and only GG away from being Terastodon. You can't even hit it off a Maelstrom Wanderer trigger.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
Sin Prodder - I think this card is a trap. An opponent could and likely would deny you land draws for the rest of the game if that's what you're revealing. This isn't necessarily bad, provided you didn't drop Sin Prodder too early, but if you need those lands it does more harm than good. Likewise if a combo piece is revealed, an opponent would take damage instead of letting you win the game. No doubt Sin Prodder lets you see more cards and may at times do a Phyrexian Arena impression, but I don't like giving my opponents control over what goes into my hand, even if they do take a bit of damage while doing it. Ultimately in blue and green there are far better draw options that we don't really need to consider this little devil.
Cryptolith Rite - A fair impression of Earthcraft, although requiring creatures to have haste or survive a turn is a significant disadvantage over Earthcraft itself. Still I'd recommend it if Earthcraft is not an option.
Obsessive Skinner - Another trap. While an extra +1/+1 counter on each opponents upkeep seems good, this deck will struggle to activate Delirium with it's very low number of enchantment, sorcery and instant cards. It's not worth trying to accommodate delirium in this deck.
Tireless Tracker - A creature that generates incidental card draw is good. While I'm not a fan of the activation cost to draw cards, this Scout can offer some decent board wipe protection by generating a bunch of Clues as we go about our normal business. If everything goes bad, at least we can spend a turn refilling our hand later on. I think I'll value this creature in my Torsten Von Ursus ramp deck more, but he's worth considering at least as a creature that sort of 'slow cantrips.' It may be worth considering the other green and blue creatures that investigate, in the same light.
Traverse the Ulvenwald - It's a trap! Most of the time we won't be able to activate delirium to get the awesome tutor effect.
Ulvenwald Hydra - It can find Gaea's Cradle, so it probably deserves a spot in the deck. Of course it's nearly impossible to fit anything else in the 6 cmc spot, so I don't know how we'll fit it in. Let me know what you cut to get it in there! Cloudstone Curio shenanigans with this guy can get every land out of the deck, which incidentally also makes it huge.
Altered Ego - A clone with multiple upsides and considerable synergy with Animar. Not sure I'd be in a rush to find a spot for it in the deck, but if you're still running Clone, please replace it with Altered Ego.
Sage of Ancient Lore // Werewolf of Ancient Hunger - Most importantly it draws a card when it enters the battlefield and unlike other Elvish Visionary look-a-likes, it has the potential to be a decent size. If it ever flips (unlikely in multiplayer and especially Animar which loves to chain multiple spells together) it will likely be an enormous trampling beat stick.
Game Trail - I think this is probably worse than Copperline Gorge in terms of the likelihood of coming into play untapped. Probably pass on this, but maybe it gets better if you play the karoo bounce lands along with all the 'Forest Mountain' duel lands? It will likely be a decent budget choice if you need it.
Enjoy!
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
URGAnimar, Soul of Elements
WBRKaalia of the Vast
GGGFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
RGWHazezon Tamar
RUWNarset, Enlightened Master
BGBVarolz, the Scar-Striped
BWBAthreos, God of Passage
RRRDaretti, Scrap Savant
My 450 Unpowered Cube
My cube on CubeTutor
@Agentwise yes you build up a pool of infinite mana by return/casting peregrine drake, cast the hoverguard enough times to retun all their creatures, cast him repeatedly targeting himself till animar has infinite counters, then swing for the win. or use your mana/bounce engine to cast empath/recruiter for a better win condition that circumvents any opposition your opponent may have in place
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
Sorry, haven't been on MTGS for a while. I had Step 4 wrong. You don't bounce an opponent's creature, you bounce Sweepers back along with Metamorph. Once you have Drake, you bounce Drake + Sweepers until you have infinite mana. Then you can start casting Hoverguard, bouncing itself + an opponent's creature. Sorry about that.
What was your Sweepers chain? My Recruiter chain with Sweepers costs UUURG + 4 life + 3 counters to start. But only beginning with Recruiter. You don't need to "burn a tutor" as the G for Empath is already in the chain cost. So it looks like our Sweepers chains must have differed.
I had never heard the Kiri-Onna chain before but I found this: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/609443-animar-the-void-burrower?comment=3
That Kiri chain costs RRUUU + 4 life, but requires only 2 counters to start. So it's easier in that it requires 1 less counter, but harder in that RR is much harder than RG. Kiri also requires Dead-Eye Navigator as another slot which isn't something I'd run. But yes it's a very nice chain to know about!
Tiny - Yasova
Anyone else have experience with it can probably tell you the same.
Also if it helps I play an extremely fast combo version of Animar as my playgroup is very competitive.
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
Emrakul, the Promised End
Tiny - Yasova
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
If you have multiple opponents you can bounce her to target each of them, but you're still giving them each a turn after the turn you've taken control, so there isn't much value in looping her. If I understand correctly, you target opponent A, B and C in your turn, then take A's turn, then A gets an additional turn, then B's turn, then B gets and additional turn, etc. There is a lot of room for things to go wrong during those interactions, barring the possibility of warping the deck around new Emrakul by including things like Ugin's Nexus or Stranglehold to prevent the extra turns taking effect.
A 13/13 flying trampler is alright if you have a haste enabler, but I don't like my creatures just to be beaters. Protection from Instants is good, but in the world of EDH not really good enough to guarantee she'll stick around to bring the beats (glad she's immune to Tragic Slip though).
The cost reduction ability, while great for other decks (particularly graveyard decks) is pretty irrelevant when Animar is in play.
I don't think she will make the grade for combo Animar, even if he can get a 13/13 for free. If you want a big beater, I would recommend Blightsteel Colossus first.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Even if I did, personally I would have no intention of taking my Titans out of the main deck. They serve a purpose other than just dropping them for total ruination. They prevent mill strategies and other shenanigans.
(Also known as Xenphire)
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
Maybe this card could be slightly interesting because you may cast it for free (if Animar has 7+ counters on it) and draw a card, which could be very good with Cloudstone Curio in play, but I've got an academic question:
is also the Emerge cost reduced by Animar ability?
E.g. if I have Animar with 5 counters could I pay just and sacrifice a creature to cast it?
(I know that it needs just one counter more on Animar to cast Wretched Gryff without having to sacrifice a creature, that's why I've labeled that question as "academic" ).
Edit: I forgot that the emerging cost is reduced by the sacrificed creature's mana cost, so that would mean playing it for just if Anymar has 2+ counters and the creature's cmc was 3+.
That would create this combo:
Tiny - Yasova
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
It has the nice effect to put a card back on top of the opponent's library.
A 5/4 for 8 mana may be too costly, but it's colorless. And it has emerge, which may speed it a bit.
What do you think about it?
Tiny - Yasova
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU