Do you often get to activate Jace three times? In my meta Planeswalkers rarely last a turn around the table and Brainstorm is not worth the four mana.
Personally I'm not sure 3 brainstorms are worth 4 mana either, but that depends a great deal on how often you can shuffle your library. If that is the effect you are after, Raven Familiar does a pretty good job of digging in a similar way. That said Jace does offer the flexibility of also being a bounce spell.
So far I'm happy with him. I can usually get 3ish activations before guy's start getting antsy with what I'm doing. I'm actually thinking of adding Jace Beleren for the politics. Everyone likes to draw cards and at 3CMC, he's an easy cast. Looking at what I took out for JTMS, I feel like I really didn't hurt the deck by removing something that's too good and honestly, an unchecked JTMS can take over a game in a few turns -- felt the upside was there.
On another note, Defense of the Heart is just stupid. It should be banned LOL. Basically an auto-win on the spot. It's AWESOME with Forbidden Orchard.
Do you often get to activate Jace three times? In my meta Planeswalkers rarely last a turn around the table and Brainstorm is not worth the four mana.
Personally I'm not sure 3 brainstorms are worth 4 mana either, but that depends a great deal on how often you can shuffle your library. If that is the effect you are after, Raven Familiar does a pretty good job of digging in a similar way. That said Jace does offer the flexibility of also being a bounce spell.
So far I'm happy with him. I can usually get 3ish activations before guy's start getting antsy with what I'm doing. I'm actually thinking of adding Jace Beleren for the politics. Everyone likes to draw cards and at 3CMC, he's an easy cast. Looking at what I took out for JTMS, I feel like I really didn't hurt the deck by removing something that's too good and honestly, an unchecked JTMS can take over a game in a few turns -- felt the upside was there.
On another note, Defense of the Heart is just stupid. It should be banned LOL. Basically an auto-win on the spot. It's AWESOME with Forbidden Orchard.
Do you often get to activate Jace three times? In my meta Planeswalkers rarely last a turn around the table and Brainstorm is not worth the four mana.
Personally I'm not sure 3 brainstorms are worth 4 mana either, but that depends a great deal on how often you can shuffle your library. If that is the effect you are after, Raven Familiar does a pretty good job of digging in a similar way. That said Jace does offer the flexibility of also being a bounce spell.
Yeah but you can respond to it and it's easier to destroy compared to most other general win conditions. I think, and this is strictly my opinion that cards like Food Chain should be banned sheerly because it doesn't really need much to go off. As a big GGG player, I am usually saddened by the inevitable ban of most good green cards, so it wouldn't be surprising to see both of the above mentioned cards banned in the future...
Yeah it's fun to just drop stuff into play, creatures, walkers, etc. and have your opponents literally unable to respond do to Teferi. Such a good EDH card, I want/need to get a 4th copy.
I'm interested in their impact on the game and what you usually target.
Thanks.
Void Winnower was a meta call, a good 75% of the commanders in my meta are even costed and it's worked out nicely. (Take that Narset, Kalia, Tasigur, Meren, etc.!). It also puts a stop to most boardwipes.
Vigor and Managorger are probably expendable, vigor more so than Managorger. Managorger can get nuts fast but Vigor feels winmore.
Progenitor Mimic I've had do some absolutely bonkers things and I like clone effects. Amazing if it sticks for a few turns which is easier if I go low profile target like Garruk's Packleader.
Signal the clans I've actually liked quite a bit since I don't have to reveal which of the 3 cards I actually get, it keeps people guessing, and instant speed to hand is nice. What I target really depends on my board state. There's enough redundancy in the deck that I can go for 3 cards with similar effects if needed or I go for things like Maelstrom Wanderer, Pathbreaker Ibex, Xenagos, or Ancestral Statue.
And on the note of Vigor being expendable, I replaced it with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir so my combos are less susceptible to a single removal/counter spell.
I think Arlinn is aweesome but not for Animar. Unless it's something very specific (Survival of the fittest, Defense of the Heart, card draw), that 4 mana is better worth getting a counter(s) on Animar ASAP.
For Animar I'm not that impressed with Arlinn. In general I have a low opinion of Planeswalkers in this deck and Arlinn isn't offering any particular synergy with the deck.
The ultimate requires her out for 5 turns to activate; +1 three times, 0 once to transform, -6 ultimate. In that time all you get is a 2/2 wolf and some combat buffs, which doesn't seem worth the effort. In a deck with doubling season it might be worth attempting to ultimate, but even then you still need to transform her first. It would be quite irritating having to constantly pull her out of a sleeve to flip her every turn too.
She is designed well and might make a splash in standard; I imagine it will always be about generating wolves and lightning bolting to get value from her. Maybe if her +1 face up ability gave trample (or other evasion) and haste I could consider it as a way to push through Commander damage, but now we're entering hypothetical territory, so I'll just say no to Arlinn.
A few weeks ago someone on Reddit suggested a new Recruiter chain and we tuned it to be pretty strong, I think.
With just Recruiter in hand, starting with 3 counters (or an extra mana of any color), it costs UUURG and 4 life for infinite mana, counters, bounce, draw, damage, etc.
Cast Metamorph as Recruiter, searching for Fierce Empath (Costs: R, 2 life. Counters: 5.)
Cast Empath, searching for Hoverguard Sweepers (Costs: RG, 2 life. Counters: 6.)
Cast Sweepers, targeting Metamorph and [removed: any opponent's creature] Hoverguard (Costs: UURG, 2 life. Counters: 7.)
Cast Metamorph as Recruiter, searching for Peregrine Drake (Costs: UURG, 4. Counters: 8.)
Cast Drake, untapping plenty of lands for you to repeat this process as much as you want. You should have infinite mana and counters. If needed, you can remove all your opponents' creatures by bouncing/recasting Sweepers. You can then Empath for a draw engine like Primordial Sage, draw out Purphoros and win. (Final cost: UUURG, 4 life. Counters: infinite.)
The biggest hurdle is UUU, though only one U needs to come from an actual land. There are some variations when you only have UU available. For example, the chain only requires UU with Shrieking Drake (or Man-o-War) in hand. With only UU and no Drake/Man-o-War, after Step 5 you can cast Metamorph as Sweepers, bouncing Metamorph and an opponent's creature. You can repeat that step for 2 life a creature.
Sweepers is not a typical card you'd play, but it's actually not bad. Better than Palinchron as a random top-deck.
TL;DR The problem with typical Imperial chain in multiplayer is that it's not always enough to take out all players. Ancestral Statue is great, but not always available since you can't find him with a Recruiter chain. This alternative chain costs a little bit more (UUURG + 4 life; typical Recruiter chain costs URG + 28 life) but is really strong and is the only one I know of that will win in multiplayer.
Seems to me like you have to bounce the initial Hoverguard Sweepers instead of an opponent's creature with its own trigger and then use it to bounce itself and Peregrine Drake afterward, requiring all three blue mana to come from lands, otherwise you'll end up casting your Drake, untapping five lands, and being completely unable to do anything else.
On the topic of seasons past, i'm not sure I can be excited about a 6 mana sorcery. However, it is an amazing 6 mana sorcery. definitely on that list with cards like all sun's dawn, mangara's tome, grinning totem, cintanual flute that i really wish i had a place for in edh, but i really just don't. makes me wish people i knew still played 5-color. or hi-5 better yet.
on the hoverguard sweepers topic. I once replaced palinchron with this guy for a couple of months. he sounds amazing with animar, a reusable bounce engine that stays in the hand, or a combo piece. the problem is at a whopping 8 mana he's is a 100% dead draw if you're not already winning and kiri-onna is cheaper to hard cast while still possesing the best facet of hoverguard's utility. the ability to interact with your opponents board. kiri fits into the imperial recruiter chain and still removes the same amount of permanents. kiri-onna costs 2 counter 4 life and RRUUU whereas the way I played hoverguard sweeper cost 4 counters 2 life and RRUUU. It just really wasn't the best choice in any scenario. unless i was doing it incorrectly. Not to mention you usually have to burn a set up tutor to search for the sweepers or pay a G to incorporate fierce empath into the chain.
URGANIMARURG In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.
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How do the following cards perform: Void Winnower, Progenitor Mimic, Vigor, Managorger Hydra and Signal the Clans?
I'm interested in their impact on the game and what you usually target.
Thanks.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Personally I'm not sure 3 brainstorms are worth 4 mana either, but that depends a great deal on how often you can shuffle your library. If that is the effect you are after, Raven Familiar does a pretty good job of digging in a similar way. That said Jace does offer the flexibility of also being a bounce spell.
On another note, Defense of the Heart is just stupid. It should be banned LOL. Basically an auto-win on the spot. It's AWESOME with Forbidden Orchard.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Add Seedborn Muse to the mix and it's just gross.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Yeah but you can respond to it and it's easier to destroy compared to most other general win conditions. I think, and this is strictly my opinion that cards like Food Chain should be banned sheerly because it doesn't really need much to go off. As a big GGG player, I am usually saddened by the inevitable ban of most good green cards, so it wouldn't be surprising to see both of the above mentioned cards banned in the future...
As far as good blue stuff, it's probably safe forever lol. I run brainstormy type effects on creatures: like you said Raven Familiar is usable - better than Sea Gate Oracle, Sages of the Anima/Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar also work for a similar sifting potential.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
You have to now that Prophet is out. Pair Seedborn with Teferi and it's a stronger Kruphix loop.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Winding Canyons, as well!
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Void Winnower was a meta call, a good 75% of the commanders in my meta are even costed and it's worked out nicely. (Take that Narset, Kalia, Tasigur, Meren, etc.!). It also puts a stop to most boardwipes.
Vigor and Managorger are probably expendable, vigor more so than Managorger. Managorger can get nuts fast but Vigor feels winmore.
Progenitor Mimic I've had do some absolutely bonkers things and I like clone effects. Amazing if it sticks for a few turns which is easier if I go low profile target like Garruk's Packleader.
Signal the clans I've actually liked quite a bit since I don't have to reveal which of the 3 cards I actually get, it keeps people guessing, and instant speed to hand is nice. What I target really depends on my board state. There's enough redundancy in the deck that I can go for 3 cards with similar effects if needed or I go for things like Maelstrom Wanderer, Pathbreaker Ibex, Xenagos, or Ancestral Statue.
Her emblem seems very good, but also other abilities are not so bad...
Tiny - Yasova
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
The ultimate requires her out for 5 turns to activate; +1 three times, 0 once to transform, -6 ultimate. In that time all you get is a 2/2 wolf and some combat buffs, which doesn't seem worth the effort. In a deck with doubling season it might be worth attempting to ultimate, but even then you still need to transform her first. It would be quite irritating having to constantly pull her out of a sleeve to flip her every turn too.
She is designed well and might make a splash in standard; I imagine it will always be about generating wolves and lightning bolting to get value from her. Maybe if her +1 face up ability gave trample (or other evasion) and haste I could consider it as a way to push through Commander damage, but now we're entering hypothetical territory, so I'll just say no to Arlinn.
With just Recruiter in hand, starting with 3 counters (or an extra mana of any color), it costs UUURG and 4 life for infinite mana, counters, bounce, draw, damage, etc.
The biggest hurdle is UUU, though only one U needs to come from an actual land. There are some variations when you only have UU available. For example, the chain only requires UU with Shrieking Drake (or Man-o-War) in hand. With only UU and no Drake/Man-o-War, after Step 5 you can cast Metamorph as Sweepers, bouncing Metamorph and an opponent's creature. You can repeat that step for 2 life a creature.
Sweepers is not a typical card you'd play, but it's actually not bad. Better than Palinchron as a random top-deck.
TL;DR The problem with typical Imperial chain in multiplayer is that it's not always enough to take out all players. Ancestral Statue is great, but not always available since you can't find him with a Recruiter chain. This alternative chain costs a little bit more (UUURG + 4 life; typical Recruiter chain costs URG + 28 life) but is really strong and is the only one I know of that will win in multiplayer.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
URGAnimar, Soul of Elements
WBRKaalia of the Vast
GGGFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
RGWHazezon Tamar
RUWNarset, Enlightened Master
BGBVarolz, the Scar-Striped
BWBAthreos, God of Passage
RRRDaretti, Scrap Savant
My 450 Unpowered Cube
My cube on CubeTutor
on the hoverguard sweepers topic. I once replaced palinchron with this guy for a couple of months. he sounds amazing with animar, a reusable bounce engine that stays in the hand, or a combo piece. the problem is at a whopping 8 mana he's is a 100% dead draw if you're not already winning and kiri-onna is cheaper to hard cast while still possesing the best facet of hoverguard's utility. the ability to interact with your opponents board. kiri fits into the imperial recruiter chain and still removes the same amount of permanents. kiri-onna costs 2 counter 4 life and RRUUU whereas the way I played hoverguard sweeper cost 4 counters 2 life and RRUUU. It just really wasn't the best choice in any scenario. unless i was doing it incorrectly. Not to mention you usually have to burn a set up tutor to search for the sweepers or pay a G to incorporate fierce empath into the chain.
In the folklore of its plane, the Animar is the ultimate source of all life—the seed from which all creation grows. In the presence of Animar, crops blossom and herds thrive, and the wake of its wanderings determines the course of the seasons.