If you increased the number of creatures in the deck that search up basic lands*, you could easily get away with a mana base made almost entirely of basics. If you're concerned about mana fixing, you can run this deck with very few red sources by cutting a lot of the red cards and just make sure you search up a red source when you want to cast Animar. Most of the non-basic lands I run is to improve the mana base consistency, but I started with a budget land base and only really ran into problems when I didn't draw my ramp creatures early.
Regarding Snap (and Palinchron too) untapping other peoples lands. I had no idea it could do that, but I like the added possibilities! Makes it really good in two-headed giant and similar team games too.
I was referring to Wolf Run and other cards that did stuff other than tap for mana. I'll also try increasing my basic land fetchers. If they work well enough, I may end up cutting even more lands.
Never thought of two headed giant before. If you manage to cast Palinchron on turn five, your partner will be at ten mana, enough to cast omniscience. Seems a little evil for my tastes.
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If you're concerned about mana fixing, you can run this deck with very few red sources by cutting a lot of the red cards and just make sure you search up a red source when you want to cast Animar.
Quoted for truthery. I've deliberately avoided any cards with RR or greater in the mana cost for this very reason. One mountain and this plan works just fine.
I was referring to Wolf Run and other cards that did stuff other than tap for mana. I'll also try increasing my basic land fetchers. If they work well enough, I may end up cutting even more lands.
Kessig Wolf Run is only there as a back up win condition, being able to pump a little creature late game, or give a large Animar trample to avoid chump blocking. It's a great card, but not essential to win (especially if you're trying to combo out).
If you're concerned about Blood Moon, in this case simply count the Wolf Run as a mountain. At least Animar can use red mana
Likewise Winding Canyons allows for some tricky play, but isn't essential for victory and again, if it ends up as a mountain you're can still use it for mana.
Blood Moon messes with mana fixing. If you include plenty of forests and islands in your mana base you will have to more carefully consider how to spend your coloured mana each turn, but Blood Moon will only be an irritation rather than game deciding.
When I said blood moon and similar non basic hate, I meant global effects that hurt non basics. Blood Moon, Ruination, and Back to Basics are very popular in my area right now, probably because five color lists were starting to get popular. Anyways, Borderland Ranger and friends are doing there job nicely. I think I will keep them in even after people finally cut their bloody moon effects.
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When I said blood moon and similar non basic hate, I meant global effects that hurt non basics. Blood Moon, Ruination, and Back to Basics are very popular in my area right now, probably because five color lists were starting to get popular. Anyways, Borderland Ranger and friends are doing there job nicely. I think I will keep them in even after people finally cut their bloody moon effects.
Ah fair enough. Blood Moon is probably the least annoying of those three for Animar. You could potentially run Crucible of Worlds if there is a lot of land destruction around, or even increase the number of effects that destroy enchantments.
At any rate I think increasing the basic land count and including more basic land tutors requires the least changes to the way the deck functions Glad to hear your Rangers are doing their jobs.
I am thinking about adding earthcraft and related combo cards shrieking drake, grinning ignus and crackleburr
all make infinite animar,crackleburr also makes bounce
what do you guys think about earthcraft? I haven't played with it and want to know if it is worth adding to my deck (no enchantment tutor and all)
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I must admit I still have not played with Earthcraft myself, however the reports I have heard (in this and other Animar threads) is that it is a powerful card that gives you extra reach using the mana you have available, which in turn increases your opportunities to find the pieces you need to go infinite or simply win by card advantage.
Honestly there are so many possible combos that can be included in an Animar deck, that you probably don't need to worry about finding Earthcraft every game.
thanks I'll probably add that the next time I'm messing with the deck, what about cloudstone curio, does it work even if you don't have a combo going on?
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Graham from Loading Ready Run
I consider Cloudstone Curio an essential piece of my Animar deck. Much like Earthcraft, when it is not enabling outright combo, it provides a lot of reach by allowing you to reuse your creatures with enter the battlefield effects while also powering up Animar itself.
It is especially good with creatures that generate mana (Palinchron although perhaps that counts as having a combo going) and get lands into play (Wood Elves). The fact that it is an optional trigger with a one time cost that can be used multiple times in a turn is what makes it the best card for the job.
thanks I'll probably add that the next time I'm messing with the deck, what about cloudstone curio, does it work even if you don't have a combo going on?
Cloudstone works especially well with morph creatures since they can get free real quick with animar. And since it says permanent, you can get an extra land tap from it each turn, or recharge llanowar reborn, which is one of my fav lands to get animar back up after a wipe or something. And speaking of lands, it also works nicely with zoetic cavern.
Oh and happy new year gelf. Been a little while since I checked up on the primer. I just wanted to mention that the misthollow Griffin and food chain combo does indeed make infinite of any mana. I can get into the exact details of how if you'd like but long story short you produce infinite blue which you use to recast misthollow a bunch of times producing infinite of another color. Food chain is also wonderful even without misthollow and can really save you when you are mana screwed.
goblin bombardment is also an interesting wipe deterrent, especially with a lot of creatures in play.
That is interesting as a cheap sacrifice engine. I'm wondering if there are any red creatures with a similar ability?, as this would be much better on a creature than as an enchantment in Animar. Magmaw unfortunately has a mana cost to sacrifice, otherwise it might be more suitable.
Of course there is also Vicious Shadows as a wipe deterrent, although it has a much higher mana cost. I think enchantments in this deck have to be around the 2 or 3 mana mark to be considered, because later in the game you end up having a choice between casting 4+ creatures or 1 expensive enchantment (or other non-creature spell). Unless that spell has dramatic impact in board position (I'm looking at you Tooth and Nail!) it usually ends up simply sitting in hand or being discarded.
Any thoughts on spoiled Gatecrash cards so far? Fathom Mage and Zameck Guildmage seem like they could find spots as extra card draw is always welcome. The Guildmage especially has excellent synergy with Animar, by either giving him extra counters when he is cast (late game obviously) or removing excess counters from Animar to draw more cards. I am concerned about the activation costs though, as coloured mana is usually the limiting factor in the deck.
How about the new Simic and Gruul keywords, Evolve and Bloodrush respectively? Also potentially mono blue Cipher and mono red Battalion?
Any thoughts on spoiled Gatecrash cards so far? Fathom Mage and Zameck Guildmage seem like they could find spots as extra card draw is always welcome. The Guildmage especially has excellent synergy with Animar, by either giving him extra counters when he is cast (late game obviously) or removing excess counters from Animar to draw more cards. I am concerned about the activation costs though, as coloured mana is usually the limiting factor in the deck.
The guildmage has me really excited. The first ability seems like it's going to be extremely helpful late game when you've got to reset Animar fast after a board-wipe or some such nonsense. I've always liked Sage of Fables's ability, so the second ability is icing on the cake.
I'm intrigued by the Fathom Mage, but not as much so as the guildmage. However, I will say that if I ever put Psychosis Crawler back into the deck, I'd give the Mage a try as another draw engine.
As far as the keyword abilities, Evolve is probably the only one I see having potential for this particular commander. The Bloodrush creatures that have been spoiled are so far unremarkable, and I think that Battalion's 3 creature requirement is asking for trouble. I really like Cipher, but I haven't got much room in my deck for noncreature nonland cards.
The guildmage has me really excited. The first ability seems like it's going to be extremely helpful late game when you've got to reset Animar fast after a board-wipe or some such nonsense. I've always liked Sage of Fables's ability, so the second ability is icing on the cake.
I'm intrigued by the Fathom Mage, but not as much so as the guildmage. However, I will say that if I ever put Psychosis Crawler back into the deck, I'd give the Mage a try as another draw engine.
As far as the keyword abilities, Evolve is probably the only one I see having potential for this particular commander. The Bloodrush creatures that have been spoiled are so far unremarkable, and I think that Battalion's 3 creature requirement is asking for trouble. I really like Cipher, but I haven't got much room in my deck for noncreature nonland cards.
I can see Bloodrush being useful if there is a creature with a cheap Bloodrush cost that grants trample or some other form of evasion. That way you can have a creature when you need it or a combat trick if you're playing aggressively.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments. Bloodrush, Cipher and Battalion will usually trigger/activate once a turn (barring extra combat phases). Evolve could trigger many times in a turn and given the way the deck functions is more likely to generate advantage. It is however self limiting (although there are some big creatures in the deck), Fathom Mage may end up not drawing enough cards to be worth it, but potentially it could act as Primordial Sage/Soul of the Harvest for a few cards at least?
I'm trying to think of a Battalion or Cipher effect that I would love to see. Potentially a Battalion effect that granted an additional combat phase would be welcome? (If it didn't untap the creature with the ability it would avoid infinite combat phases without jumping through additional hoops, although vigilance might be a problem).
I doubt there would be any mono-blue Cipher effects powerful enough to warrant a spell slot in the deck, but what would you wish for?
I doubt there would be any mono-blue Cipher effects powerful enough to warrant a spell slot in the deck, but what would you wish for?
TBH, some type of Unsummon would be neat. I'd be very surprised if we don't see CipherSummon. Animar and small utility flyers can usually connect with some consistency, so being able to bounce your own guys or keeping an enemy Kaalia (or whatever) off the board seems good.
The guildmage is the only one that just knocked my socks off. I can just see getting animar in with that and llanowar reborn for an easy 2 counters late game.
Domri Rade would be the only other card that I see a lot of synergy with. If anyone was just dying to put a planeswalker in the deck, she'd be the one.
CypherUnsummon would be so freaking cool, and it would make ethereal usher more useful.
A card that granted evolve to animar would be the only thing I could see advantageous.
I agree with a cheap trample bloodrush. Doubt we'll see it though
Can't think of much for battalion
Fathom Mage would be great in a different kind of animar deck that focused more on puttin counters on stuff. I'm sure there will be more than one person auto including it, but for this deck, it doesn't really fit the flavor.
I actually really like burning tree emissary for its filter ability (though would only be useful in a deck that ran more red). It's an infinite mana combo with aluren (which I run) and bounce effects...
While it will never find a place in the deck, it's nice to know that rapid hybridization is there in case you need creature removal.
Hellkite tyrant can't really be in a combo animar, but with all the artifacts in commander, I foresee it becoming popular for a while
Totally off topic but the new Gideon is bonkers and illusionists bracers is scary too
Burning tree emissary sounds like a possible addition to me because it can be a good free creature to play the turn after you get out animar and it means that you can make red mana out of green mana, albeit only once, if you are lacking some. (also works well with cloudstone curio).
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Graham from Loading Ready Run
Burning tree emissary sounds like a possible addition to me because it can be a good free creature to play the turn after you get out animar and it means that you can make red mana out of green mana, albeit only once, if you are lacking some. (also works well with cloudstone curio).
I think if your going that route, priest of urabrask is better because its cost is reduced by Animar, making it a potential dark ritual.
----- Imperial Recruiter is going to be released as a judge reward. Anyone else feeling the need to update their Animar deck?
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Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
However, if I have to eat these words, I will gladly be picking one up :D.
Those will be the sweetest words you ever eat. I'm half inclined to agree with you, if only so I can taste those awesome words too. Seriously though, if he levels at 150 I will be happy about it.
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Prime Speaker Zegana looks like it could be absolutely bonkers. I realize the cost is borderline prohibitive, but JEEZ
Also, Signal the Clans sounds like it could very well deserve a tutor spot!
I've recently been playing my deck online (Cockatrice) and I've been frustrated with both the many triggers and such that happen in the combo and with the inability to have enough answers. I'm going to throw together a conrol/flash/haste version of the deck and see how it works out. I'm going to try to rely less on animar and just use it as an accelerator, rather than a necessary combo piece. I'll let you guys know how it works out in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, I look forward to more gatecrash spoilers! I just love the Simic flavor!
Prime Speaker Zegana looks like it could be absolutely bonkers. I realize the cost is borderline prohibitive, but JEEZ
Also, Signal the Clans sounds like it could very well deserve a tutor spot!
I've recently been playing my deck online (Cockatrice) and I've been frustrated with both the many triggers and such that happen in the combo and with the inability to have enough answers. I'm going to throw together a conrol/flash/haste version of the deck and see how it works out. I'm going to try to rely less on animar and just use it as an accelerator, rather than a necessary combo piece. I'll let you guys know how it works out in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, I look forward to more gatecrash spoilers! I just love the Simic flavor!
I don't think the cost is prohibitive. Four mana draw 5+ is very aggressively costed. Will definitely get a spot in mine.
Signal the Clans will just be a fourth Soul of the Harvest if I include it at all.
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Given the likelyhood that Prime Speaker Zegana could draw a lot of cards, I think she deserves a spot in the deck, even if her GGUU cost limits what can be achieved in the turn she is cast.
Signal the Clans is also a decent creature tutor, but I'm not certain it should be in the deck. It certainly plays well given redundancy (could be a way to ensure a morph creature is available) and will be pretty much guaranteed to find a win condition if that is what you need, but it's less useful as a way of finding toolbox pieces, so it requires a degree of building around. Given other potential creature tutors (such as Worldly Tutor) it isn't an auto include. If only it was able to find artifacts or enchantments in addition to creatures... well it would be nice to replace (or run alongside) Gamble.
I was referring to Wolf Run and other cards that did stuff other than tap for mana. I'll also try increasing my basic land fetchers. If they work well enough, I may end up cutting even more lands.
Never thought of two headed giant before. If you manage to cast Palinchron on turn five, your partner will be at ten mana, enough to cast omniscience. Seems a little evil for my tastes.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Quoted for truthery. I've deliberately avoided any cards with RR or greater in the mana cost for this very reason. One mountain and this plan works just fine.
stuff
Kessig Wolf Run is only there as a back up win condition, being able to pump a little creature late game, or give a large Animar trample to avoid chump blocking. It's a great card, but not essential to win (especially if you're trying to combo out).
If you're concerned about Blood Moon, in this case simply count the Wolf Run as a mountain. At least Animar can use red mana
Likewise Winding Canyons allows for some tricky play, but isn't essential for victory and again, if it ends up as a mountain you're can still use it for mana.
Blood Moon messes with mana fixing. If you include plenty of forests and islands in your mana base you will have to more carefully consider how to spend your coloured mana each turn, but Blood Moon will only be an irritation rather than game deciding.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Ah fair enough. Blood Moon is probably the least annoying of those three for Animar. You could potentially run Crucible of Worlds if there is a lot of land destruction around, or even increase the number of effects that destroy enchantments.
At any rate I think increasing the basic land count and including more basic land tutors requires the least changes to the way the deck functions Glad to hear your Rangers are doing their jobs.
all make infinite animar,crackleburr also makes bounce
what do you guys think about earthcraft? I haven't played with it and want to know if it is worth adding to my deck (no enchantment tutor and all)
Graham from Loading Ready Run
Honestly there are so many possible combos that can be included in an Animar deck, that you probably don't need to worry about finding Earthcraft every game.
Graham from Loading Ready Run
It is especially good with creatures that generate mana (Palinchron although perhaps that counts as having a combo going) and get lands into play (Wood Elves). The fact that it is an optional trigger with a one time cost that can be used multiple times in a turn is what makes it the best card for the job.
Cloudstone works especially well with morph creatures since they can get free real quick with animar. And since it says permanent, you can get an extra land tap from it each turn, or recharge llanowar reborn, which is one of my fav lands to get animar back up after a wipe or something. And speaking of lands, it also works nicely with zoetic cavern.
That is interesting as a cheap sacrifice engine. I'm wondering if there are any red creatures with a similar ability?, as this would be much better on a creature than as an enchantment in Animar. Magmaw unfortunately has a mana cost to sacrifice, otherwise it might be more suitable.
Of course there is also Vicious Shadows as a wipe deterrent, although it has a much higher mana cost. I think enchantments in this deck have to be around the 2 or 3 mana mark to be considered, because later in the game you end up having a choice between casting 4+ creatures or 1 expensive enchantment (or other non-creature spell). Unless that spell has dramatic impact in board position (I'm looking at you Tooth and Nail!) it usually ends up simply sitting in hand or being discarded.
Any thoughts on spoiled Gatecrash cards so far? Fathom Mage and Zameck Guildmage seem like they could find spots as extra card draw is always welcome. The Guildmage especially has excellent synergy with Animar, by either giving him extra counters when he is cast (late game obviously) or removing excess counters from Animar to draw more cards. I am concerned about the activation costs though, as coloured mana is usually the limiting factor in the deck.
How about the new Simic and Gruul keywords, Evolve and Bloodrush respectively? Also potentially mono blue Cipher and mono red Battalion?
The guildmage has me really excited. The first ability seems like it's going to be extremely helpful late game when you've got to reset Animar fast after a board-wipe or some such nonsense. I've always liked Sage of Fables's ability, so the second ability is icing on the cake.
I'm intrigued by the Fathom Mage, but not as much so as the guildmage. However, I will say that if I ever put Psychosis Crawler back into the deck, I'd give the Mage a try as another draw engine.
As far as the keyword abilities, Evolve is probably the only one I see having potential for this particular commander. The Bloodrush creatures that have been spoiled are so far unremarkable, and I think that Battalion's 3 creature requirement is asking for trouble. I really like Cipher, but I haven't got much room in my deck for noncreature nonland cards.
stuff
I can see Bloodrush being useful if there is a creature with a cheap Bloodrush cost that grants trample or some other form of evasion. That way you can have a creature when you need it or a combat trick if you're playing aggressively.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments. Bloodrush, Cipher and Battalion will usually trigger/activate once a turn (barring extra combat phases). Evolve could trigger many times in a turn and given the way the deck functions is more likely to generate advantage. It is however self limiting (although there are some big creatures in the deck), Fathom Mage may end up not drawing enough cards to be worth it, but potentially it could act as Primordial Sage/Soul of the Harvest for a few cards at least?
I'm trying to think of a Battalion or Cipher effect that I would love to see. Potentially a Battalion effect that granted an additional combat phase would be welcome? (If it didn't untap the creature with the ability it would avoid infinite combat phases without jumping through additional hoops, although vigilance might be a problem).
I doubt there would be any mono-blue Cipher effects powerful enough to warrant a spell slot in the deck, but what would you wish for?
TBH, some type of Unsummon would be neat. I'd be very surprised if we don't see CipherSummon. Animar and small utility flyers can usually connect with some consistency, so being able to bounce your own guys or keeping an enemy Kaalia (or whatever) off the board seems good.
Time will tell, I guess :).
stuff
Domri Rade would be the only other card that I see a lot of synergy with. If anyone was just dying to put a planeswalker in the deck, she'd be the one.
CypherUnsummon would be so freaking cool, and it would make ethereal usher more useful.
A card that granted evolve to animar would be the only thing I could see advantageous.
I agree with a cheap trample bloodrush. Doubt we'll see it though
Can't think of much for battalion
Fathom Mage would be great in a different kind of animar deck that focused more on puttin counters on stuff. I'm sure there will be more than one person auto including it, but for this deck, it doesn't really fit the flavor.
I actually really like burning tree emissary for its filter ability (though would only be useful in a deck that ran more red). It's an infinite mana combo with aluren (which I run) and bounce effects...
While it will never find a place in the deck, it's nice to know that rapid hybridization is there in case you need creature removal.
Hellkite tyrant can't really be in a combo animar, but with all the artifacts in commander, I foresee it becoming popular for a while
Totally off topic but the new Gideon is bonkers and illusionists bracers is scary too
Graham from Loading Ready Run
I think if your going that route, priest of urabrask is better because its cost is reduced by Animar, making it a potential dark ritual.
-----
Imperial Recruiter is going to be released as a judge reward. Anyone else feeling the need to update their Animar deck?
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
I'm not holding my breath on the judge foil softening up Recruiter's price too much. I think he's in a whole different boat from Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and Loyal Retainers.
However, if I have to eat these words, I will gladly be picking one up :D.
stuff
Those will be the sweetest words you ever eat. I'm half inclined to agree with you, if only so I can taste those awesome words too. Seriously though, if he levels at 150 I will be happy about it.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Prime Speaker Zegana looks like it could be absolutely bonkers. I realize the cost is borderline prohibitive, but JEEZ
Also, Signal the Clans sounds like it could very well deserve a tutor spot!
I've recently been playing my deck online (Cockatrice) and I've been frustrated with both the many triggers and such that happen in the combo and with the inability to have enough answers. I'm going to throw together a conrol/flash/haste version of the deck and see how it works out. I'm going to try to rely less on animar and just use it as an accelerator, rather than a necessary combo piece. I'll let you guys know how it works out in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, I look forward to more gatecrash spoilers! I just love the Simic flavor!
I don't think the cost is prohibitive. Four mana draw 5+ is very aggressively costed. Will definitely get a spot in mine.
Signal the Clans will just be a fourth Soul of the Harvest if I include it at all.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Signal the Clans is also a decent creature tutor, but I'm not certain it should be in the deck. It certainly plays well given redundancy (could be a way to ensure a morph creature is available) and will be pretty much guaranteed to find a win condition if that is what you need, but it's less useful as a way of finding toolbox pieces, so it requires a degree of building around. Given other potential creature tutors (such as Worldly Tutor) it isn't an auto include. If only it was able to find artifacts or enchantments in addition to creatures... well it would be nice to replace (or run alongside) Gamble.