I think that counterspells benefit tremendously from being copied. It makes your counterspells so much harder to fight against.
At the same time if you feel like your Spin into Myth is going to be countered you can cast it twice at the same target. If it isn't going to be countered you split it into 2 targets.
It isn't that having 2 counterspells isn't good but highly situational on a high countering opponent being your target. Using targeted removal and targeted tuck allows you to split your targets or double up in the case of facing a counterspell heavy opponent.
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I also like the Elder. You're getting a guaranteed three-for-one when you play it. You get a blocker/sword carrier/cantrip guy AND two lands for three mana? The value is too good to pass up. Krosan Tusker is pretty good though.
Edit: Whoaaa what up Pathfinder Imma respond to you shortly, was hoping you'd chime in.
Eldrazi: Ok ok guys I get it. They're not so good with Riku. My goof on Artisan too. Just didnt read the card. I forgot that they nerfed all the Eldrazi for being cheated into play.
Primus: Yeah, I know the persist interaction with Riku is incredible. See Glen Elendra Archmage. I don't think I was really going to cut him anyway.
Cauldron of Souls: It used to be in here. Someone told me to take it out and I reluctantly listened. I'm the type of guy that loves to abuse ETB abilities though because I'm a sucker for value so I'll have to take a good look at what to cut for it. Also, JUST realized the interaction between Cauldron, Riku and Oran-Rief. Seems really, really good. Hm.
GSZ: I think I like it better than the transmute card too.
Non-Riku-friendly spells: Yeah, I noticed that about spell crumple. Here we go with the sacred cow slaughtering again (BRING IT). I'm not sure I even need Spin into Myth because I've already got Chaos Warp. Hm. Besides Spell Crumple, what else would you say doesn't go well with Riku? Gamble/Mystical Tutor? Capsize? I think those spells are really good on their own. I know most people don't like Gamble but when you don't have access to black it feels pretty good to go get what you need. Besides, how cool is it to gamble for something that likes to be in the yard like Loam or Genesis?
Mana Reflection: Whaaaaaa? Yeah that is a strange recommendation to cut it. You say it doesn't have any synergy with Riku but the thing is pretty much all extra mana has synergy with him because by the time you hit 9-10 mana you can start copying 8-drops. Hm. I am always looking for ways to lower the curve so I'll have to think about this one pretty hard.
EDIT: What would you think of Reap and Sow in that slot? Fetches Cradle, works as LD and it's a house copied.
Plow Under: Hot damn I know this card is good. You'll notice it is in my maybeboard right now. Maybe best in 1v1 and certainly brutal when copied. Maybe that gets into the instant/sorcery version of this deck I'll be sure to make. I think I like this guy enough to write the primer on him so that version of the deck should exist too.
I don't think Trygon Predator, Glen Elendra Archmage, Flametongue Kavu, or Pongify are doing you any favors. If you cut any of them, it would free up some space for creatures with better EtB effects.
I'll agree with Trygon and Flametongue, but Glen is an absolute house with this general. 4 Counterspells for non cretaure? Yes please.
Non-Riku-friendly spells: Yeah, I noticed that about spell crumple. Here we go with the sacred cow slaughtering again (BRING IT). I'm not sure I even need Spin into Myth because I've already got Chaos Warp. Hm. Besides Spell Crumple, what else would you say doesn't go well with Riku? Gamble/Mystical Tutor? Capsize? I think those spells are really good on their own. I know most people don't like Gamble but when you don't have access to black it feels pretty good to go get what you need. Besides, how cool is it to gamble for something that likes to be in the yard like Loam or Genesis?
I actually love Gamble. Its sort of a fun card in my mind and I have usually had great success with it. Remember to try to use it early when you have a full hand. More cards = better chance of keeping what you tutor for. Doing 2 gambles with an empty hand for Genesis + Loam or Spitting Image all sound like fun options.
Mystical Tutor another great tutor. Keep in mind that you are placing what you tutor for on top of your deck though. This means that if you copy this spell, you get the first card you want, then shuffle your library and place it on top, then you go get the second card you want, and shuffle the first target into your library and place the second on top. Long story short don't copy this one lol. I wouldnt go as far as saying it needs to be cut from the deck because I feel it is a good enabler that lets you go get the cards you need for the situation.
I would also add that I strongly suggest keeping the archmage. I tooth and nail into Avenger + her all the time as a woncon. It is great having counters on a stick to stop opponents from saving themselves from your big army.
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I actually love Gamble. Its sort of a fun card in my mind and I have usually had great success with it. Remember to try to use it early when you have a full hand. More cards = better chance of keeping what you tutor for. Doing 2 gambles with an empty hand for Genesis + Loam or Spitting Image all sound like fun options.
Mystical Tutor another great tutor. Keep in mind that you are placing what you tutor for on top of your deck though. This means that if you copy this spell, you get the first card you want, then shuffle your library and place it on top, then you go get the second card you want, and shuffle the first target into your library and place the second on top. Long story short don't copy this one lol. I wouldnt go as far as saying it needs to be cut from the deck because I feel it is a good enabler that lets you go get the cards you need for the situation.
I would also add that I strongly suggest keeping the archmage. I tooth and nail into Avenger + her all the time as a woncon. It is great having counters on a stick to stop opponents from saving themselves from your big army.
Yeah I think I have no intention of cutting any of those cards. I'm prepared to try out Kodama's Reach over Mana Reflection when I get the cards but the thing I'm having a little trouble with is finding a cut for Cauldron of Souls. I know Spell Crumple is out so it could go in there but Spin Into Myth fills the slot better and I love to err on the side of playing more spot removal (especially being able to tuck some of these commanders... sheesh!). So I want to cut something else in addition to Spell Crumple, really.
Ok running through your list here is what I have for you as potential cuts. Granted I dont know exactly how your commander will interact or your intentions for each but coming from my Jenara list I have looked at several similar types of cards / style of play.
Scavenging Ooze I understand where you are coming from here. My reluctance here is that a second copy does very little for you here. He has no comes into play ability either. In my mind you might actually consider running an artifact target that would be a target for Trinket Mage. If you don't see too much wrathing I think this guy could stick around for a bit especially if you split off a copy. I just see too much wrathing to rely on a creature to do my exiling.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker he is a heavy investment into red. I see that you have several ways in which to fix your mana and plenty of dual lands so this might not be a huge issue. Also remember he is a legend so you cannot make a copy with your commander and you cannot copy the token production off of him. He is still a great creature for abusing CIP effects but remember he does have some downsides too. I think he can probably stay though.
Seedborn Muse I know you absolutely run on mana and while I think she is very cool, you dont honestly have that many instant abilities that you need to keep mana open for. She is like a damn lightning rod and people just freak out if a good deck has a Seedborn in play. I dont think I have ever kept one of these alive for a whole turn rotation. Getting a second copy in play is cool and they will both go on the stack but unless you run a lot of instant speed stuff I just dont really see the payoff for her. And people just love to kill her. That's my experience at least.
Bogardan Hellkite I know he is good and I do like him. when it comes down to cutting something though I think there is a chance you could at least look at him. I dont think you need to actually do it for now but keep in mind that he could go. A 5/5 flyer that does 5 damage on entry is by all means decent. I just find EDH to be a world of 6/6s
Constant Mists it doesn't work really at all with your commander and unless you play against a lot of agro strategies it doesn't do too much. Another problem with this card is that unless you really really need it its sort of bad to show it. Sometimes it just turns into an everyone attack that guy to eat up his lands sort of deal. I run it myself in my Karrthus deck to stop Akroma from eating my face but it does have its limitations and little synergy with this deck.
Evacuation Personally the only real time I like Evac is to deal with token armies. I understand it allows you to reuse your comes into play guys but for dealing with a real threat it is sort of underwhelming. Their threat will just be right back in a moment. You might also consider running Echoing Truth instead as you can make use of the whole being able to copy it and selectively bounce things. It still deals with token armies as well and it can let you one sided bounce in a wrath or remove some big ass attackers that were swinging at you.
Expedition Map I would never run this card unless there was a clutch land that I absolutely needed in play. Even then I am a lot more likely to drop a GSZ for a Primeval Titan and use that to fuel my nonbasic needs. This card is by far the least needed in my mind. I understand it is a trinket mage target but you have green for the love of god. Use it to go get the land you want. Even Sylvan Scrying is probably better as it costs less to use and can be copied with your commander.
Scroll Rack -> Sylvan Library I almost always would prefur to have the library in a deck. The few times I would rather have the rack would be if I need things that I might draw back in my deck like running a Scion of Ur-Dragon deck where if I draw a dragon I need to push it back in, or I am running Land Tax and plan on setting up the combo to draw tons of cards. Short of those options the Library is just better.
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Ok running through your list here is what I have for you as potential cuts. Granted I dont know exactly how your commander will interact or your intentions for each but coming from my Jenara list I have looked at several similar types of cards / style of play.
Scavenging Ooze: I figure I can get him back with Genesis and other shenanigans and he is tutorable off of Survival and Fauna Shaman already. He's just a cool card I want to try out even if he doesn't stick in the final list.
Kiki-Jiki: He is so good with any of my creatures it'd be silly not to run him. I think I've got enough fetching and duals going on that I should be able to reliably be able to cast him lategame when he can do the most damage. It's ok that he's a nonbo with Riku because he's agruably stronger.
Seedborn Muse: She has a few cool things going for her but I can see her leaving the deck I guess. Back when I added her I added in a bunch more control elements and since those elements have dwindled quite a bit. I realize my ways to abuse her now aren't as great as they were before and I would consider cutting her for Cauldron of Souls (which, ironically, is a card she is very good with). It fills a similar function while having more cool ways to get value without being a lightning rod for removal.
Here's a crazy idea. What if, instead of (or in addition to) Cauldron of Souls, how bout Voyager Staff with my Academy Ruins? Did you test that all in Jenara? Tutorable off of Trinket Mage and it's a real beating with some of these ETB and persist guys AND it's removal/wrath protection, but on a smaller scale. Craps all over control magic and is (another) great way to abuse persist guys. Not to mention the insanity with Riku. I read about it in one of the Commandercast updates and it looks like a real contender here if nothing else.
Bogardan Hellkite: If I find that I have more than enough mana playing this deck, I might just play Kozilek in its place. I know i can't copy him but drawing four and restocking my library on a 12/12 annihilator guy is worth and the spot. I just want to try him out for now, much like Scavenging Ooze.
Constant Mists: Another card that was in when the list was more control-y. 1v1 some decks just have no answer to this. But I'd really like some graveyard recursion... Maybe I should slot some yard recursion here. Actually, this is the perfect spot for Voyager Staff. I can even use it as a fog! I'm always excited to try new cards so I'll feel better about it this way.
Evacuation: I see what you mean. I like having answers to toke armies and indestructible things... hm. Maybe, since it's good against token armies, I run Starstorm in its place? It's instant speed as well, it gets more red in the deck (always a plus) and it cycles if I don't want it. I think that's a fair swap. I just feel like Echoing Truth is a little weak in its place and the deck already has Capsize for other permanent bounce.
Expedition Map: DEATH TO THE SACRED COWS! This is my first green deck and I am not used to having the luxury of getting any land I want in this color. This card used to be Sylvan Scrying, believe it or not. When I made the switch I just liked the fact that I could recur it with Academy Ruins if necessary. I will find something to put here.
Scroll Rack: I think you've made a reasonable argument for Sylvan Library here. I'll make the swap.
Thanks so much for the opinions. I wonder if I'll have to check back for ninja edits like usual
With all the ways to dump creatures into the yard, I'm starting to think this deck really could use a Deadwood Treefolk or an All Suns' Dawn or something. Anyone got any ideas?
Another card I have had tons of success with is Rings of Brighthearth. You might have to assess this for yourself but the ability to kick a fetchland to go and ramp into 2 lands has been amazing. I can use it with my top if I have extra mana to just draw a card for 3 mana as you tap the top, pay 2 mana and draw the top card then the top itself. Pay another mana and kick the top out. It works great with Mimic Vat, Kiki Jiki, Yavimaya Elder, Sakura tribe elder, just tons of good stuff for it. I have found it good but I would say assess it for yourself to see if it would be useful.
As for Voyager Staff, there are a lot of similar cards to this. I for one really love Tawnos's Coffin as a similar style of card. As for why I dont run it personally in my Jenara deck, it is mainly due to the fact that I find the surprise factor of Momentary Blink and Ghostway to be superior to broadcasting what you could be doing. Considering you do not have white as an option to use these cards you could consider the staff but I still personally like the Coffin for a reusable effect. The biggest downside to the coffin though is that it just isnt cheap to cast / use. It could be really funny with your commander though considering he can make a copy of whatever creature you hide away. I have also used it to hide away problematic commanders briefly.
As for graveyard return cards, the ones you already have in your deck are all good options, my next favorite is probably Restock. Keep in mind with All Sun's Dawn that you use very little red in your deck so usually it just forces you to pick one white and one green card. What if you want a land, a colorless spell such as all is dust or O Stone or two green cards??? The other option is to just run more card draw and ignore what you have already run through. Regrowth is always super amazing as well and being able to cast it twice just sounds fun. For some reason I never really cared too much for Deadwood Treefolk and All Suns' Dawn. I think part of that though is both of them limit what you can choose as targets and I dont care much for that.
Sorry for the slow response, I had to run to lunch right after you posted last
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Sorry for the slow response, I had to run to lunch right after you posted last
Yeah me too :). Delicious pizza...
I'll have to see about the Rings. I'm not sure that there's enough targets for it right now and they don't work with Riku. Sounds awesome with enough fetches. Confession right now: I don't actually have a Wooded Foothills, so I've really only got two fetches in there. I'm trying to find one for trade and I don't want to spend 20 bucks on one right now. And for flavor and budget concerns, I don't want to play any off-color fetches.
I think what I like about the Voayger Staff the best is the cheap activation cost and the tutorability outweighs the clunkiness of Tawnos's Coffin. I am excited to try it and if I am underwhelmed, I will cut it.
I was looking for one more vote of confidence on Regrowth. I haven't played the card yet so I don't really know how good it is without others' input. I think I will replace Deadwood Treefolk with it for the CMC difference and versatility.
I'll have to see about the Rings. I'm not sure that there's enough targets for it right now and they don't work with Riku. Sounds awesome with enough fetches. Confession right now: I don't actually have a Wooded Foothills, so I've really only got two fetches in there. I'm trying to find one for trade and I don't want to spend 20 bucks on one right now. And for flavor and budget concerns, I don't want to play any off-color fetches.
I think what I like about the Voayger Staff the best is the cheap activation cost and the tutorability outweighs the clunkiness of Tawnos's Coffin. I am excited to try it and if I am underwhelmed, I will cut it.
I was looking for one more vote of confidence on Regrowth. I haven't played the card yet so I don't really know how good it is without others' input. I think I will replace Deadwood Treefolk with it for the CMC difference and versatility.
Nice I had pizza as well
It is understandable if you dont want to put in offcolored fetches then you might not want the rings. I run like 9 fetchlands in my Jenara deck so its totally amazing.
I understand your hesitance towards the Coffin. It is very clunkey but I used to use it with Izzet Chronarch to make an infinite turn loop. I just like how versatile it is as it can do a lot of mean things. But I do agree that it is a lot clunkier than the voyager staff. Good luck with it.
I think you will like Regrowth honestly. It costs so little to use that it is easy to still use the card that you bring back with it that turn. The option to use it twice for only 4 mana with your commander sounds bonkers. I think it will work nicely for you. It has always been one of my favorite rez cards for green.
NINJA EDIT: (ok not really this is like a 2 hours later edit...) Ohhh also dont forget about the fun interaction you can have with Rings of Brighthearth + Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman. Discarding one creature to go and get 2 more creatures is lolz amazing. Especially when it only costs you 3 mana to do. There really are a lot of cards with good interactions with it.
NINJA EDIT #2: (man I keep thinking of random things) I was just going to comment on one other thing. If you want you could have somewhat of a tutorable Insurection by running Conquering Manticore. Considering you can steal 2 creatures when you cast it out (assuming you copy with Riku) is fairly impressive. He works great with Kiki and flickering effects as well. I thought I would just mention him but he could be fun to experiment with.
I may be wrong, but in the case of Regrowth, if we copy it, does that mean we can grab something back from our library with the Regrowth, and then with the copy of Regrowth, return the original Regrowth to our hands, or does the stack force us to use the copy first?
I am also trying to add more red to my riku.
Now that worldgorger dragon is unbanned he may be fun for us, with riku we can get infinite CITP triggers I think (he comes in make token, stack triggers, original and riku + all other stuff come back, pay riku to make token again, tapping all other lands, repeat. Also triggers all your CItP stuff on your other creatures!
Now I know you don't want infinites, but you don't have to go infinite. Use it with acidic slime in play to just blow up academy ruins and a few other key lands your opponents have! The possibilities are endless!
I mean, if nothing else you can use it in a non-infinite way just to retrigger acidic slime, primeval titan, etc.
Also! My new favorite combo: thieve's auction + homeward path. Works best if you have like 3 or so creatures.
You choose path P1, then just start taking lands/utility artifacts/enchants. After other people get stuck with your creatures, steal them back!
Works even better if path is in hand, since everyone will just be like "why isn't he getting primeval titan? I WANT!" and then you go "lolownd"
Other than that... well, I'm still looking for good red stuff. I threw in vexing shusher in my build since I have a counterheavy meta. I'll keep looking and post any stuff I think would be fun for this deck.
Again with the Rings, yeah hot damn it is good with survival. Guess what else: it also works with the cycling lands to draw 2 cards for one mana. GAH! Damn it's getting better every time you bring it up. I will have to consider it even more. I don't know if it will make the final decklist but for now it does seem pretty synergistic with certain parts of the deck. I just wish it did something with Riku...
As for Conquering Manticore, I am a HUGE fan of that card. You'll see he made my Nin list and I am never upset to draw him. Between him, Inferno Titan and Bogardan Hellkite, I wonder which two should stick around... Inferno Titan doesn't need any help abusing his ability so I think he should stay. So it's down to Hellkite and Manticore. Hellkite costs two more mana but he flat out kills things where Manticore only borrows them. Both are 5/5 flyers. Manticore is more likely to come out off of a birthing pod AND more likely to be copied by Riku because of his lower CMC. I'm thinking that the Manticore might win out over the Hellkite based on that logic. Besides, I have a couple sac outlets in the deck that will allow me to dispose of whatever I steal anyway. High Market really is an auto-include, and Greater Good will just add insult to injury as long as I don't steal a creature with 1 power.
Sadly, this doesn't work. I found a similar ruling here just to be sure dealing with Pyromancer Ascension and Call to Mind. The copy goes on the stack on top of the original spell (where the original spell is not a legal target for the copy), and the original spell can't target the copy because it doesn't exist at either time targets are checked (before the copy hits the stack and after the copy vanishes on resolution).
Yeah those are some high-powered options huh? I'm going to shy away from Worldgorger because in addition to infinte ETB effects, you also get infinite mana. Since it's an easy two-card win with Riku at the helm, I think it's too easy and it's likely to piss off the kinds of people I like to play with. YMMV of course with your own playgroup- it is definitely brutal and I'd rather lose to that than Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite
Thieves' Auction/Homeward Path is potentially really powerful, but it will only work if Path is in hand when you play thieves' auction (and you haven't used your land drop yet that turn). So it's narrow in that sense. Also, it only works when you have a bunch of creatures already that you can take back in the first place, which means you're likely winning already when you play it (unless your deck with RG in it is somehow losing to a deck based on non-creatures). Thirdly, Insurrection just flat out kills a player with only one more mana and a lot less work. And finally, playing Thieves' Auction bothers a lot of people the wrong way and I don't want to risk it when meeting new players. So while in your established local meta this probably kicks total butt, I'm going to pass on it. It's a good idea though and we need that kind of ingenuity here to keep decks interesting, so thanks much for the recommendation.
Have any thoughts about Blatant Thievery? That sounds expensive, but fun to copy.
I think I'd run Decimate over Hull Breach. Destroys creatures, which you were worried about a few pages back.
I'd probably also swap out the Sylvan Library for a Future Sight, if only because your Top + Future Sight is awesome sauce. It also lets you immediately play what you grab with Mystical Tutor, which also means you can copy Mystical Tutor with Riku and use the card you grabbed with the first resolved copy, provided it was an instant and you play it before the second copy resolves and makes you shuffle it away. (hope that made sense)
I disagree with the Rings of Brighthearth recommendations, I view that as almost a build-around-me card, or at least one that needs to magnify a main theme instead of magnifying support themes. That's probably just my playstyle, though.
I find it intersting how easy it is to come up with infinite combos with Riku. There are all kinds of shenanigans available. (i.e. Palinchron army) Props for not going over to the dark side.
Have any thoughts about Blatant Thievery? That sounds expensive, but fun to copy.
I think I'd run Decimate over Hull Breach. Destroys creatures, which you were worried about a few pages back.
I'd probably also swap out the Sylvan Library for a Future Sight, if only because your Top + Future Sight is awesome sauce. It also lets you immediately play what you grab with Mystical Tutor, which also means you can copy Mystical Tutor with Riku and use the card you grabbed with the first resolved copy, provided it was an instant and you play it before the second copy resolves and makes you shuffle it away. (hope that made sense)
I disagree with the Rings of Brighthearth recommendations, I view that as almost a build-around-me card, or at least one that needs to magnify a main theme instead of magnifying support themes. That's probably just my playstyle, though.
I find it intersting how easy it is to come up with infinite combos with Riku. There are all kinds of shenanigans available. (i.e. Palinchron army) Props for not going over to the dark side.
Decimate - ohhh I like that idea. Keep in mind that the copy can target overlap some of the same targets as the original. You only need to be able to target one of each when they are on the stack. If one of them is gone before it resolves it isnt a big deal.
Sylvan Library -> Future Sight - While I agree that future sight is a great card, I do not feel it is a direct replacement for a topdeck manipulation card. Future Sight is undeniably better if you already have top in play. The reason to run Sylvan Library is to increase your chance of having a topdeck manipulation card in play. Also Future Sight costing 6 mana to play out feels really heavy. I guess here it would come down to the question of are you running Library to increase your chances to have a topdeck manipulation effect in play?
As for Rings of Brighthearth, I can understand you thinking it is a build arround it kind of card. It isnt for every deck but I think if you look at what is already in the deck and it is good then there is no problem. Honestly I find it incredible in the decks it works in. I have some like 25 or so interactions or so in my deck that can be used with the card. It is really reallly good when it works. Also another card that it works with in your deck is Birthing Pod. Sac one guy and go get 2 lol.
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Sylvan Library -> Future Sight - While I agree that future sight is a great card, I do not feel it is a direct replacement for a topdeck manipulation card. Future Sight is undeniably better if you already have top in play. The reason to run Sylvan Library is to increase your chance of having a topdeck manipulation card in play. Also Future Sight costing 6 mana to play out feels really heavy. I guess here it would come down to the question of are you running Library to increase your chances to have a topdeck manipulation effect in play?
For some reason I was thinking that Sylvan Library could only be activated in your draw step (not usually a green player). Since you can activate at any time, it looks like you could use Sylvan Library to grab your card off the top if you copied Mystical Tutor (before the 2nd copy resolved and shuffled it away). I guess that puts them on even ground there. Hrmm. After thinking about it, I probably would keep the Sylvan Library.
For some reason I was thinking that Sylvan Library could only be activated in your draw step (not usually a green player). Since you can activate at any time, it looks like you could use Sylvan Library to grab your card off the top if you copied Mystical Tutor (before the 2nd copy resolved and shuffled it away). I guess that puts them on even ground there. Hrmm. After thinking about it, I probably would keep the Sylvan Library.
Read the updated oracle text, you were correct in your original assumption.
At the beginning of your draw step, you may draw two additional cards. If you do, choose two cards in your hand drawn this turn. For each of those cards, pay 4 life or put the card on top of your library.
You can only do on your turn as you draw.
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Future Sight vs Sylvan Library: I love Future Sight. I try to play it all the time. I have a foil one and I like it very much. Right now, it's just the cost issue (:2mana::symu::symu::symu:) that's holding it back. I know what it does with Top and I understand its raw card advantage is just overpowering. I don't want to cut the library for it because the library is only 2 mana and provides a similar level of virtual card advantage because this deck has a ton of shuffle effects to abuse. The extra interaction with mystical tutor isn't enough for me to put it over the top just yet but believe me, every time I find I have an open spot in this deck I ask myself if Future Sight is right for it. I have a feeling it will be sometime.
Decimate: I'm also a lover of Decimate but I worry about the times it will be a dead card when I have no good enchantments to blow up (or worse, maybe just my own!). Copying it in a 1v1 situation can be a total blowout by hitting two lands, two mana rocks, two creatures and any old enchantment, even my own. And it can be done the turn after Riku enters play. I should have had it in the maybelist but I forgot to put it there. I'll think about spots for it and update at some point. The thing I like better about hull breach is, again, the low cost.
Blatant Thievery: Great card for the mana cost but I rarely want to play this over Knowledge Exploitation, which is just as bananas when copied. (Wrath, Bribery>Avenger? seems good). In any case, that fact that it's not a creature really counts against it in this deck and it is a much better choice for the future instant/sorcery version I'm sure I'll make when I've kicked enough butt with this one
And thanks for the anti-infinite props. I just play the style I want to play against and hope that other folks will get the idea.
On the whole subject of Sacred Cow burgers... what do you guys think of cutting Krosan Grip? Or should Hull Breach be the one to get the axe? That would be the type of card I'd like to take out for Decimate (though Chaos Warp could go too). Its uses are pretty narrow I feel like. Then again, I really haven't played with the card much so I'm not sure just how auto-include-y it is when spells like Decimate are on the sidelines and we have enchantments like Martyr's Bond out there ripping us a new one (fun side note: martyr's bond will trigger on all the other things hit by decimate as well... ugh).
Oh, and I am still considering cutting Mana Reflection for a ramp spell. I'm just trying to get over the boldness of it.
Read the updated oracle text, you were correct in your original assumption.
At the beginning of your draw step, you may draw two additional cards. If you do, choose two cards in your hand drawn this turn. For each of those cards, pay 4 life or put the card on top of your library.
You can only do on your turn as you draw.
Ah, okay (gatherer and magiccards are blocked from work, so I had to look up an image of the card on google, lol).
So since that's the case, here are my thoughts - Sylvan Library goves you access to 2 extra cards per turn. Future Sight gives you access to at least 1, and up to... maybe up to 4 or 5, depending on how much mana you have, how much you're willing to spend, and how many lands you bump into.
So it seems like Future Sight has a slight drawback for the possibility of just as good as, or greater card advantage per turn. No life payment, and it works well with 2 other cards in the deck (Top, Mystical Tutor). There is the debatable downside that your opponents see what you are drawing, but the card advantage outweighs that for me.
On the increased mana cost... yeah, you got me there. That's definitely an issue. If the CMC pushes the curve too high, that's definitely a problem. You definitely have to think about the curve in a deck with Riku, since you need open mana to take advantage of him.
If I end up cutting Mana Reflection for Kodama's Reach or something, I'll feel better about the cost issue. And as far as my opponents seeing what I'm drawing, I've quickly learned not to worry about that. Just leave removal or a counterspell up there and they'll save all their creatures for their hand because no-one will want to fall on their sword for the team.
Eh, you know what? I'm confortable cutting Spin into Myth for Decimate. I have a tuck spell in Chaos Warp that I rather like.
(silly note for fun: this thread is currently the number one Google search result for "edh riku". Cool! :banana:)
More edits: I've tried (temporarily) a batch swap:
I want to see how that goes. Maybe I won't be able to sleep like that? Pathfinder was right I think that I am perhaps expecting too much for both Mana Reflection AND Riku to make it around the board for my untap step so it's probably overkill. Future Sight just wins games too and now I get the top interaction to draw a card for :1mana:. And I still have top, tutorable off Trinket Mage, for library manipulation, which is practically invulnerable to removal. If this is a grave mistake, y'all are welcome to chime in.
How do you feel about Sundering Titan? Is he in the same category as Vorinclex, the fun ruiner? Seems like copying Sundering Titan with Kiki-Jiki or Mimic Vat might get you a punch in the face, lol (but it would still be fun).
How do you feel about Sundering Titan? Is he in the same category as Vorinclex, the fun ruiner? Seems like copying Sundering Titan with Kiki-Jiki or Mimic Vat might get you a punch in the face, lol (but it would still be fun).
Hahahaha yeah I think I'd have to punch myself in the face :rolleyes:. Not to mention it leaves my own three-color manabase extremely vulnerable. What do I do if I sit down against Skullbriar and Teysa? Get 2 of that guy's forests and lose 4 basics myself? There's a lot of power there and not much control. See, then again though, we could just survival him away, right? (At the risk of being reanimated by a stray Beacon of Unrest or Body Double though... Bribery will own us too!).
On the other hand, all the new commanders from the product are two or three colors and since they'll be popular for the next few months, this is as good a time as any to let Sundering Titan do some sundering as you are exposed to the least amount of splash damage with everyone else playing multi-colored decks.
So what I'm saying is that there's definitely some risk involved. Me? I don't think it's worth it because I don't want to be the guy copying my own Sundering Titan. I'll stick to Plow Under. You and your playgroup? He could be preeeetty ridiculous. And it's part of my own personal fun too when I don't run the guy, but laugh happily when I Bribery someone else's (much like the last time I cast Chancellor of the Spires I hit someone else's Time Stretch despite not running it myself).
As for the just running Top + Trinket Mage, that is probably fine. I used to run like 3 topdeck manipulation effects but cut back to Top + Trinket Mage + Tezzeret the Seeker. My own problem was that I would draw multiple topdeck manipulation effects at once and or people would blow up my other ones. Top is the most versatile and doesnt just cave to an artifact / ench sweeper like Oblivion Stone.
I think you will be fine without the library. If you really want the top you can always creature tutor for the the trinket mage then tutor for the top
Kodama's Reach has the potential to speed up your early game or if drawn later net you 4 lands with Riku. It draws a lot less hate to you as well. I think all in all we are reexamining your problem that you had a while back with Guilded Lotus.
As for Sundering Titan, it is always risky in a 3 colored deck. I guess I personally would say it is down to a meta call. If you have a lot of multicolored decks in your meta it can be good as there are often other targets for it. If you see a lot of monocolored decks... you will end up hurting yourself more often than not. It is a crazy good creature and I love the interaction to get 2 copies of him at the same time. Very cool. (I personally though would not risk him. He seems too easy to backfire.)
Vorinclex - Honestly... I havent seen much impressive work come from him unless you look at instant speed cheating into play effects. He is legendary so you cant double him up and he always leaves you wide open. I personally am not a big fan of him. I have seen him do some great work in a Mayael the Anima deck though. I dont feel like he is a creature to just be thrown into any old deck though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Vorinclex - Honestly... I havent seen much impressive work come from him unless you look at instant speed cheating into play effects. He is legendary so you cant double him up and he always leaves you wide open. I personally am not a big fan of him. I have seen him do some great work in a Mayael the Anima deck though. I dont feel like he is a creature to just be thrown into any old deck though.
Wow, he would be insane in a Mayael deck. One would be silly not to try him out there.
At the same time if you feel like your Spin into Myth is going to be countered you can cast it twice at the same target. If it isn't going to be countered you split it into 2 targets.
It isn't that having 2 counterspells isn't good but highly situational on a high countering opponent being your target. Using targeted removal and targeted tuck allows you to split your targets or double up in the case of facing a counterspell heavy opponent.
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Edit: Whoaaa what up Pathfinder Imma respond to you shortly, was hoping you'd chime in.
Eldrazi: Ok ok guys I get it. They're not so good with Riku. My goof on Artisan too. Just didnt read the card. I forgot that they nerfed all the Eldrazi for being cheated into play.
Primus: Yeah, I know the persist interaction with Riku is incredible. See Glen Elendra Archmage. I don't think I was really going to cut him anyway.
Cauldron of Souls: It used to be in here. Someone told me to take it out and I reluctantly listened. I'm the type of guy that loves to abuse ETB abilities though because I'm a sucker for value so I'll have to take a good look at what to cut for it. Also, JUST realized the interaction between Cauldron, Riku and Oran-Rief. Seems really, really good. Hm.
GSZ: I think I like it better than the transmute card too.
Non-Riku-friendly spells: Yeah, I noticed that about spell crumple. Here we go with the sacred cow slaughtering again (BRING IT). I'm not sure I even need Spin into Myth because I've already got Chaos Warp. Hm. Besides Spell Crumple, what else would you say doesn't go well with Riku? Gamble/Mystical Tutor? Capsize? I think those spells are really good on their own. I know most people don't like Gamble but when you don't have access to black it feels pretty good to go get what you need. Besides, how cool is it to gamble for something that likes to be in the yard like Loam or Genesis?
Mana Reflection: Whaaaaaa? Yeah that is a strange recommendation to cut it. You say it doesn't have any synergy with Riku but the thing is pretty much all extra mana has synergy with him because by the time you hit 9-10 mana you can start copying 8-drops. Hm. I am always looking for ways to lower the curve so I'll have to think about this one pretty hard.
EDIT: What would you think of Reap and Sow in that slot? Fetches Cradle, works as LD and it's a house copied.
Plow Under: Hot damn I know this card is good. You'll notice it is in my maybeboard right now. Maybe best in 1v1 and certainly brutal when copied. Maybe that gets into the instant/sorcery version of this deck I'll be sure to make. I think I like this guy enough to write the primer on him so that version of the deck should exist too.
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I'll agree with Trygon and Flametongue, but Glen is an absolute house with this general. 4 Counterspells for non cretaure? Yes please.
Heh you'll notice of the four Biomechanika recommended I cut, only one is still in the deck
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I actually love Gamble. Its sort of a fun card in my mind and I have usually had great success with it. Remember to try to use it early when you have a full hand. More cards = better chance of keeping what you tutor for. Doing 2 gambles with an empty hand for Genesis + Loam or Spitting Image all sound like fun options.
Mystical Tutor another great tutor. Keep in mind that you are placing what you tutor for on top of your deck though. This means that if you copy this spell, you get the first card you want, then shuffle your library and place it on top, then you go get the second card you want, and shuffle the first target into your library and place the second on top. Long story short don't copy this one lol. I wouldnt go as far as saying it needs to be cut from the deck because I feel it is a good enabler that lets you go get the cards you need for the situation.
I would also add that I strongly suggest keeping the archmage. I tooth and nail into Avenger + her all the time as a woncon. It is great having counters on a stick to stop opponents from saving themselves from your big army.
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Yeah I think I have no intention of cutting any of those cards. I'm prepared to try out Kodama's Reach over Mana Reflection when I get the cards but the thing I'm having a little trouble with is finding a cut for Cauldron of Souls. I know Spell Crumple is out so it could go in there but Spin Into Myth fills the slot better and I love to err on the side of playing more spot removal (especially being able to tuck some of these commanders... sheesh!). So I want to cut something else in addition to Spell Crumple, really.
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Scavenging Ooze I understand where you are coming from here. My reluctance here is that a second copy does very little for you here. He has no comes into play ability either. In my mind you might actually consider running an artifact target that would be a target for Trinket Mage. If you don't see too much wrathing I think this guy could stick around for a bit especially if you split off a copy. I just see too much wrathing to rely on a creature to do my exiling.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker he is a heavy investment into red. I see that you have several ways in which to fix your mana and plenty of dual lands so this might not be a huge issue. Also remember he is a legend so you cannot make a copy with your commander and you cannot copy the token production off of him. He is still a great creature for abusing CIP effects but remember he does have some downsides too. I think he can probably stay though.
Seedborn Muse I know you absolutely run on mana and while I think she is very cool, you dont honestly have that many instant abilities that you need to keep mana open for. She is like a damn lightning rod and people just freak out if a good deck has a Seedborn in play. I dont think I have ever kept one of these alive for a whole turn rotation. Getting a second copy in play is cool and they will both go on the stack but unless you run a lot of instant speed stuff I just dont really see the payoff for her. And people just love to kill her. That's my experience at least.
Bogardan Hellkite I know he is good and I do like him. when it comes down to cutting something though I think there is a chance you could at least look at him. I dont think you need to actually do it for now but keep in mind that he could go. A 5/5 flyer that does 5 damage on entry is by all means decent. I just find EDH to be a world of 6/6s
Constant Mists it doesn't work really at all with your commander and unless you play against a lot of agro strategies it doesn't do too much. Another problem with this card is that unless you really really need it its sort of bad to show it. Sometimes it just turns into an everyone attack that guy to eat up his lands sort of deal. I run it myself in my Karrthus deck to stop Akroma from eating my face but it does have its limitations and little synergy with this deck.
Evacuation Personally the only real time I like Evac is to deal with token armies. I understand it allows you to reuse your comes into play guys but for dealing with a real threat it is sort of underwhelming. Their threat will just be right back in a moment. You might also consider running Echoing Truth instead as you can make use of the whole being able to copy it and selectively bounce things. It still deals with token armies as well and it can let you one sided bounce in a wrath or remove some big ass attackers that were swinging at you.
Expedition Map I would never run this card unless there was a clutch land that I absolutely needed in play. Even then I am a lot more likely to drop a GSZ for a Primeval Titan and use that to fuel my nonbasic needs. This card is by far the least needed in my mind. I understand it is a trinket mage target but you have green for the love of god. Use it to go get the land you want. Even Sylvan Scrying is probably better as it costs less to use and can be copied with your commander.
Scroll Rack -> Sylvan Library I almost always would prefur to have the library in a deck. The few times I would rather have the rack would be if I need things that I might draw back in my deck like running a Scion of Ur-Dragon deck where if I draw a dragon I need to push it back in, or I am running Land Tax and plan on setting up the combo to draw tons of cards. Short of those options the Library is just better.
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Scavenging Ooze: I figure I can get him back with Genesis and other shenanigans and he is tutorable off of Survival and Fauna Shaman already. He's just a cool card I want to try out even if he doesn't stick in the final list.
Kiki-Jiki: He is so good with any of my creatures it'd be silly not to run him. I think I've got enough fetching and duals going on that I should be able to reliably be able to cast him lategame when he can do the most damage. It's ok that he's a nonbo with Riku because he's agruably stronger.
Seedborn Muse: She has a few cool things going for her but I can see her leaving the deck I guess. Back when I added her I added in a bunch more control elements and since those elements have dwindled quite a bit. I realize my ways to abuse her now aren't as great as they were before and I would consider cutting her for Cauldron of Souls (which, ironically, is a card she is very good with). It fills a similar function while having more cool ways to get value without being a lightning rod for removal.
Here's a crazy idea. What if, instead of (or in addition to) Cauldron of Souls, how bout Voyager Staff with my Academy Ruins? Did you test that all in Jenara? Tutorable off of Trinket Mage and it's a real beating with some of these ETB and persist guys AND it's removal/wrath protection, but on a smaller scale. Craps all over control magic and is (another) great way to abuse persist guys. Not to mention the insanity with Riku. I read about it in one of the Commandercast updates and it looks like a real contender here if nothing else.
Bogardan Hellkite: If I find that I have more than enough mana playing this deck, I might just play Kozilek in its place. I know i can't copy him but drawing four and restocking my library on a 12/12 annihilator guy is worth and the spot. I just want to try him out for now, much like Scavenging Ooze.
Constant Mists: Another card that was in when the list was more control-y. 1v1 some decks just have no answer to this. But I'd really like some graveyard recursion... Maybe I should slot some yard recursion here. Actually, this is the perfect spot for Voyager Staff. I can even use it as a fog! I'm always excited to try new cards so I'll feel better about it this way.
Evacuation: I see what you mean. I like having answers to toke armies and indestructible things... hm. Maybe, since it's good against token armies, I run Starstorm in its place? It's instant speed as well, it gets more red in the deck (always a plus) and it cycles if I don't want it. I think that's a fair swap. I just feel like Echoing Truth is a little weak in its place and the deck already has Capsize for other permanent bounce.
Expedition Map: DEATH TO THE SACRED COWS! This is my first green deck and I am not used to having the luxury of getting any land I want in this color. This card used to be Sylvan Scrying, believe it or not. When I made the switch I just liked the fact that I could recur it with Academy Ruins if necessary. I will find something to put here.
Scroll Rack: I think you've made a reasonable argument for Sylvan Library here. I'll make the swap.
Thanks so much for the opinions. I wonder if I'll have to check back for ninja edits like usual
With all the ways to dump creatures into the yard, I'm starting to think this deck really could use a Deadwood Treefolk or an All Suns' Dawn or something. Anyone got any ideas?
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As for Voyager Staff, there are a lot of similar cards to this. I for one really love Tawnos's Coffin as a similar style of card. As for why I dont run it personally in my Jenara deck, it is mainly due to the fact that I find the surprise factor of Momentary Blink and Ghostway to be superior to broadcasting what you could be doing. Considering you do not have white as an option to use these cards you could consider the staff but I still personally like the Coffin for a reusable effect. The biggest downside to the coffin though is that it just isnt cheap to cast / use. It could be really funny with your commander though considering he can make a copy of whatever creature you hide away. I have also used it to hide away problematic commanders briefly.
As for graveyard return cards, the ones you already have in your deck are all good options, my next favorite is probably Restock. Keep in mind with All Sun's Dawn that you use very little red in your deck so usually it just forces you to pick one white and one green card. What if you want a land, a colorless spell such as all is dust or O Stone or two green cards??? The other option is to just run more card draw and ignore what you have already run through. Regrowth is always super amazing as well and being able to cast it twice just sounds fun. For some reason I never really cared too much for Deadwood Treefolk and All Suns' Dawn. I think part of that though is both of them limit what you can choose as targets and I dont care much for that.
Sorry for the slow response, I had to run to lunch right after you posted last
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Yeah me too :). Delicious pizza...
I'll have to see about the Rings. I'm not sure that there's enough targets for it right now and they don't work with Riku. Sounds awesome with enough fetches. Confession right now: I don't actually have a Wooded Foothills, so I've really only got two fetches in there. I'm trying to find one for trade and I don't want to spend 20 bucks on one right now. And for flavor and budget concerns, I don't want to play any off-color fetches.
I think what I like about the Voayger Staff the best is the cheap activation cost and the tutorability outweighs the clunkiness of Tawnos's Coffin. I am excited to try it and if I am underwhelmed, I will cut it.
I was looking for one more vote of confidence on Regrowth. I haven't played the card yet so I don't really know how good it is without others' input. I think I will replace Deadwood Treefolk with it for the CMC difference and versatility.
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Nice I had pizza as well
It is understandable if you dont want to put in offcolored fetches then you might not want the rings. I run like 9 fetchlands in my Jenara deck so its totally amazing.
I understand your hesitance towards the Coffin. It is very clunkey but I used to use it with Izzet Chronarch to make an infinite turn loop. I just like how versatile it is as it can do a lot of mean things. But I do agree that it is a lot clunkier than the voyager staff. Good luck with it.
I think you will like Regrowth honestly. It costs so little to use that it is easy to still use the card that you bring back with it that turn. The option to use it twice for only 4 mana with your commander sounds bonkers. I think it will work nicely for you. It has always been one of my favorite rez cards for green.
NINJA EDIT: (ok not really this is like a 2 hours later edit...) Ohhh also dont forget about the fun interaction you can have with Rings of Brighthearth + Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman. Discarding one creature to go and get 2 more creatures is lolz amazing. Especially when it only costs you 3 mana to do. There really are a lot of cards with good interactions with it.
NINJA EDIT #2: (man I keep thinking of random things) I was just going to comment on one other thing. If you want you could have somewhat of a tutorable Insurection by running Conquering Manticore. Considering you can steal 2 creatures when you cast it out (assuming you copy with Riku) is fairly impressive. He works great with Kiki and flickering effects as well. I thought I would just mention him but he could be fun to experiment with.
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Now that worldgorger dragon is unbanned he may be fun for us, with riku we can get infinite CITP triggers I think (he comes in make token, stack triggers, original and riku + all other stuff come back, pay riku to make token again, tapping all other lands, repeat. Also triggers all your CItP stuff on your other creatures!
Now I know you don't want infinites, but you don't have to go infinite. Use it with acidic slime in play to just blow up academy ruins and a few other key lands your opponents have! The possibilities are endless!
I mean, if nothing else you can use it in a non-infinite way just to retrigger acidic slime, primeval titan, etc.
Also! My new favorite combo:
thieve's auction + homeward path. Works best if you have like 3 or so creatures.
You choose path P1, then just start taking lands/utility artifacts/enchants. After other people get stuck with your creatures, steal them back!
Works even better if path is in hand, since everyone will just be like "why isn't he getting primeval titan? I WANT!" and then you go "lolownd"
Other than that... well, I'm still looking for good red stuff. I threw in vexing shusher in my build since I have a counterheavy meta. I'll keep looking and post any stuff I think would be fun for this deck.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
Again with the Rings, yeah hot damn it is good with survival. Guess what else: it also works with the cycling lands to draw 2 cards for one mana. GAH! Damn it's getting better every time you bring it up. I will have to consider it even more. I don't know if it will make the final decklist but for now it does seem pretty synergistic with certain parts of the deck. I just wish it did something with Riku...
As for Conquering Manticore, I am a HUGE fan of that card. You'll see he made my Nin list and I am never upset to draw him. Between him, Inferno Titan and Bogardan Hellkite, I wonder which two should stick around... Inferno Titan doesn't need any help abusing his ability so I think he should stay. So it's down to Hellkite and Manticore. Hellkite costs two more mana but he flat out kills things where Manticore only borrows them. Both are 5/5 flyers. Manticore is more likely to come out off of a birthing pod AND more likely to be copied by Riku because of his lower CMC. I'm thinking that the Manticore might win out over the Hellkite based on that logic. Besides, I have a couple sac outlets in the deck that will allow me to dispose of whatever I steal anyway. High Market really is an auto-include, and Greater Good will just add insult to injury as long as I don't steal a creature with 1 power.
Sadly, this doesn't work. I found a similar ruling here just to be sure dealing with Pyromancer Ascension and Call to Mind. The copy goes on the stack on top of the original spell (where the original spell is not a legal target for the copy), and the original spell can't target the copy because it doesn't exist at either time targets are checked (before the copy hits the stack and after the copy vanishes on resolution).
Yeah those are some high-powered options huh? I'm going to shy away from Worldgorger because in addition to infinte ETB effects, you also get infinite mana. Since it's an easy two-card win with Riku at the helm, I think it's too easy and it's likely to piss off the kinds of people I like to play with. YMMV of course with your own playgroup- it is definitely brutal and I'd rather lose to that than Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite
Thieves' Auction/Homeward Path is potentially really powerful, but it will only work if Path is in hand when you play thieves' auction (and you haven't used your land drop yet that turn). So it's narrow in that sense. Also, it only works when you have a bunch of creatures already that you can take back in the first place, which means you're likely winning already when you play it (unless your deck with RG in it is somehow losing to a deck based on non-creatures). Thirdly, Insurrection just flat out kills a player with only one more mana and a lot less work. And finally, playing Thieves' Auction bothers a lot of people the wrong way and I don't want to risk it when meeting new players. So while in your established local meta this probably kicks total butt, I'm going to pass on it. It's a good idea though and we need that kind of ingenuity here to keep decks interesting, so thanks much for the recommendation.
Extra credit to everyone who mentioned a red card
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I think I'd run Decimate over Hull Breach. Destroys creatures, which you were worried about a few pages back.
I'd probably also swap out the Sylvan Library for a Future Sight, if only because your Top + Future Sight is awesome sauce. It also lets you immediately play what you grab with Mystical Tutor, which also means you can copy Mystical Tutor with Riku and use the card you grabbed with the first resolved copy, provided it was an instant and you play it before the second copy resolves and makes you shuffle it away. (hope that made sense)
I disagree with the Rings of Brighthearth recommendations, I view that as almost a build-around-me card, or at least one that needs to magnify a main theme instead of magnifying support themes. That's probably just my playstyle, though.
I find it intersting how easy it is to come up with infinite combos with Riku. There are all kinds of shenanigans available. (i.e. Palinchron army) Props for not going over to the dark side.
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Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Blatant Thievery - lolz tons of mana but omg yikes.
Decimate - ohhh I like that idea. Keep in mind that the copy can target overlap some of the same targets as the original. You only need to be able to target one of each when they are on the stack. If one of them is gone before it resolves it isnt a big deal.
Sylvan Library -> Future Sight - While I agree that future sight is a great card, I do not feel it is a direct replacement for a topdeck manipulation card. Future Sight is undeniably better if you already have top in play. The reason to run Sylvan Library is to increase your chance of having a topdeck manipulation card in play. Also Future Sight costing 6 mana to play out feels really heavy. I guess here it would come down to the question of are you running Library to increase your chances to have a topdeck manipulation effect in play?
As for Rings of Brighthearth, I can understand you thinking it is a build arround it kind of card. It isnt for every deck but I think if you look at what is already in the deck and it is good then there is no problem. Honestly I find it incredible in the decks it works in. I have some like 25 or so interactions or so in my deck that can be used with the card. It is really reallly good when it works. Also another card that it works with in your deck is Birthing Pod. Sac one guy and go get 2 lol.
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[Modern] Allies
For some reason I was thinking that Sylvan Library could only be activated in your draw step (not usually a green player). Since you can activate at any time, it looks like you could use Sylvan Library to grab your card off the top if you copied Mystical Tutor (before the 2nd copy resolved and shuffled it away). I guess that puts them on even ground there. Hrmm. After thinking about it, I probably would keep the Sylvan Library.
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Read the updated oracle text, you were correct in your original assumption.
At the beginning of your draw step, you may draw two additional cards. If you do, choose two cards in your hand drawn this turn. For each of those cards, pay 4 life or put the card on top of your library.
You can only do on your turn as you draw.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Decimate: I'm also a lover of Decimate but I worry about the times it will be a dead card when I have no good enchantments to blow up (or worse, maybe just my own!). Copying it in a 1v1 situation can be a total blowout by hitting two lands, two mana rocks, two creatures and any old enchantment, even my own. And it can be done the turn after Riku enters play. I should have had it in the maybelist but I forgot to put it there. I'll think about spots for it and update at some point. The thing I like better about hull breach is, again, the low cost.
Blatant Thievery: Great card for the mana cost but I rarely want to play this over Knowledge Exploitation, which is just as bananas when copied. (Wrath, Bribery>Avenger? seems good). In any case, that fact that it's not a creature really counts against it in this deck and it is a much better choice for the future instant/sorcery version I'm sure I'll make when I've kicked enough butt with this one
And thanks for the anti-infinite props. I just play the style I want to play against and hope that other folks will get the idea.
On the whole subject of Sacred Cow burgers... what do you guys think of cutting Krosan Grip? Or should Hull Breach be the one to get the axe? That would be the type of card I'd like to take out for Decimate (though Chaos Warp could go too). Its uses are pretty narrow I feel like. Then again, I really haven't played with the card much so I'm not sure just how auto-include-y it is when spells like Decimate are on the sidelines and we have enchantments like Martyr's Bond out there ripping us a new one (fun side note: martyr's bond will trigger on all the other things hit by decimate as well... ugh).
Oh, and I am still considering cutting Mana Reflection for a ramp spell. I'm just trying to get over the boldness of it.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Ah, okay (gatherer and magiccards are blocked from work, so I had to look up an image of the card on google, lol).
So since that's the case, here are my thoughts - Sylvan Library goves you access to 2 extra cards per turn. Future Sight gives you access to at least 1, and up to... maybe up to 4 or 5, depending on how much mana you have, how much you're willing to spend, and how many lands you bump into.
So it seems like Future Sight has a slight drawback for the possibility of just as good as, or greater card advantage per turn. No life payment, and it works well with 2 other cards in the deck (Top, Mystical Tutor). There is the debatable downside that your opponents see what you are drawing, but the card advantage outweighs that for me.
On the increased mana cost... yeah, you got me there. That's definitely an issue. If the CMC pushes the curve too high, that's definitely a problem. You definitely have to think about the curve in a deck with Riku, since you need open mana to take advantage of him.
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Eh, you know what? I'm confortable cutting Spin into Myth for Decimate. I have a tuck spell in Chaos Warp that I rather like.
(silly note for fun: this thread is currently the number one Google search result for "edh riku". Cool! :banana:)
More edits: I've tried (temporarily) a batch swap:
Sylvan Library-->Future Sight
Mana Reflection-->Kodama's Reach
I want to see how that goes. Maybe I won't be able to sleep like that? Pathfinder was right I think that I am perhaps expecting too much for both Mana Reflection AND Riku to make it around the board for my untap step so it's probably overkill. Future Sight just wins games too and now I get the top interaction to draw a card for :1mana:. And I still have top, tutorable off Trinket Mage, for library manipulation, which is practically invulnerable to removal. If this is a grave mistake, y'all are welcome to chime in.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Hahahaha yeah I think I'd have to punch myself in the face :rolleyes:. Not to mention it leaves my own three-color manabase extremely vulnerable. What do I do if I sit down against Skullbriar and Teysa? Get 2 of that guy's forests and lose 4 basics myself? There's a lot of power there and not much control. See, then again though, we could just survival him away, right? (At the risk of being reanimated by a stray Beacon of Unrest or Body Double though... Bribery will own us too!).
On the other hand, all the new commanders from the product are two or three colors and since they'll be popular for the next few months, this is as good a time as any to let Sundering Titan do some sundering as you are exposed to the least amount of splash damage with everyone else playing multi-colored decks.
So what I'm saying is that there's definitely some risk involved. Me? I don't think it's worth it because I don't want to be the guy copying my own Sundering Titan. I'll stick to Plow Under. You and your playgroup? He could be preeeetty ridiculous. And it's part of my own personal fun too when I don't run the guy, but laugh happily when I Bribery someone else's (much like the last time I cast Chancellor of the Spires I hit someone else's Time Stretch despite not running it myself).
Hey, I could just imagine blinking him with Tawnos's Coffin or Voyager Staff... DIE BASIC LAND TYPES DIE
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I think you will be fine without the library. If you really want the top you can always creature tutor for the the trinket mage then tutor for the top
Kodama's Reach has the potential to speed up your early game or if drawn later net you 4 lands with Riku. It draws a lot less hate to you as well. I think all in all we are reexamining your problem that you had a while back with Guilded Lotus.
As for Sundering Titan, it is always risky in a 3 colored deck. I guess I personally would say it is down to a meta call. If you have a lot of multicolored decks in your meta it can be good as there are often other targets for it. If you see a lot of monocolored decks... you will end up hurting yourself more often than not. It is a crazy good creature and I love the interaction to get 2 copies of him at the same time. Very cool. (I personally though would not risk him. He seems too easy to backfire.)
Vorinclex - Honestly... I havent seen much impressive work come from him unless you look at instant speed cheating into play effects. He is legendary so you cant double him up and he always leaves you wide open. I personally am not a big fan of him. I have seen him do some great work in a Mayael the Anima deck though. I dont feel like he is a creature to just be thrown into any old deck though.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Wow, he would be insane in a Mayael deck. One would be silly not to try him out there.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP