Indestructible nonsense is certainly a pain! My deck is admittedly soft to it. I play mostly Legacy, so I think I'm very accepting that some decks will simply "have my number". Luckily in multi-player you can hope for other opponents to be running more diverse removal or sweepers, but that doesn't always work either.
That said, I do have a few tricks that can possibly save me:
Will often remove the offender. I like Fen because it's a land - easier to tutor and easier to recur. The others are good because they hit non-creatures. Fen and Aurora also don't need to target.
The other strategy is to kill the opponent!
Inkmoth Nexus not only flies over a lot of blockers, but it also kills indestructible creatures which can block.
Marit Lage can also fly over grounded indestructibles.
A Rubblehulk activation will sometimes get the jump on them - They might not bother to block an unthreatening attacker.
Of course closing the game out is not always easy when we can't reset the board. Establishing a defensive lock will sometimes allow us to just ignore the indestructible nonsense:
Maze Of Ith can hold a single (nonshrouded) creature at bay.
EDIT - if Ulamog is the issue, Maze Of Ith is not a good answer. Ice Floe is actually better, but you might not put it into play until after Ulamog is cast!
A Constant Mist lock is always nice. The best way to achieve this is with Drownyard Temple, but as long as you can play a land a turn you can keep it going while digging for a permanent answer or win-con.
The only other option is to remove the indestructible nonsense from their deck manually. While they're outside smoking is usually the best time for this tactic, but bathroom breaks work too. Be sure to destroy any evidence (eat the card).
The quality of crimhead's reply post far surpassed mine.
I try to avoid cards that don't have 'land' printed on them somewhere. But I'm screwing myself out of a lot of efficient and versatile answers. Terminus, Plow, etc, are solid cards.
Edit - Ulamog is 10 or 11 mana. Maybe the best plan is to be aggressive with Child (taking out their permanent based ramp). You can also lean on Strip Mine (or Storm Cauldron or Mana Vortex). You don't have to stop Ulamog from ever hitting the table - just delay it long enough that you can find a solution.
I think Ulamog will always be difficult for us, though.
I'm toying around with building this deck. I've historically enjoyed land decks. I had a Borby Enraged land deck for awhile, which became The Gitrog Monster land deck but the idea of playing 5-color lands is really appealing.
In regards to the above discussion, I'd definitely play All is Dust to deal with indestructible permanents. Possibly the Karn and Ugin planeswalkers as well.
Aaaaaaand it's me! I'm back and ok-er than ever! I've posted like twice here though I'm no celebrity. Anyway my list has evolved quite a bit since the last time I popped in here so I thought I'd share it as an attempt to get feedback as well as maybe give some of you some clever ideas.
My list is built with resilience and late game dominance in mind. I want to be able to answer everything if possible and be able to win through any obstacle (but totally rely on other people for getting rid of rest in peace because i only have one Anguished Unmaking.) I'm continually upgrading the deck and just havent gotten around to buying intuition because its just so damn expensive for a pretty good effect and I'm a poor college student so thats my excuse.
Notable exclusions:
Maze's End/Guildgates - Honestly i just don't find them a fun way to win and also i dont run scapeshift so that doesnt help their case. The other reason is that I like having lots of different lands for different situations and the guildgates just take up so many deck spots.
Valakut/Prismatic Omen - I dont exactly see how hitting people for 3 for each mountain is going to win me a lot of games. Even if I have a Vesuva out and it's doubled I just dont see it. Maybe the extra reach would be worth it but I would have to playtest before buying into it. Also still no scapeshift so no dice there.
Inkmoth Nexus: I don't feel like its worth it when i have so many other win conditions already. Child does everything this does except it doesnt fly but I'd rather have trample anyway.
Anyway leave me your thoughts and I should be able to get back you guys!
Prismatic Omen and Valakut is more than 3 damage at a time though. However, you're not running fetchlands so it's reasonable why you don't want to run it.
In my game last week, I had the Prismatic Omen + Valakut setup. Then I used Tolaria West for Thespian Stage. Maze's End activation for a guildgate (6 damage), replay Maze's End (6 damage). That's pretty gross. And that's without any of the extra-land-drop cards.
I'm toying around with building this deck. I've historically enjoyed land decks. I had a Borby Enraged land deck for awhile, which became The Gitrog Monster land deck but the idea of playing 5-color lands is really appealing.
In regards to the above discussion, I'd definitely play All is Dust to deal with indestructible permanents. Possibly the Karn and Ugin planeswalkers as well.
Gitrog and Bobo are very different land builds. Child is much more about building the engine in play, less about the general. Definitely worth a spin, especially if you already have the cards.
I've often wondered if the Scry Lands would be better in the place of Guildgates. Just being able to smooth out draws seems worthwhile. The Karoo lands seem interesting since some turns I can play 3-4 lands.
Prismatic Omen and Valakut is more than 3 damage at a time though. However, you're not running fetchlands so it's reasonable why you don't want to run it.
In my game last week, I had the Prismatic Omen + Valakut setup. Then I used Tolaria West for Thespian Stage. Maze's End activation for a guildgate (6 damage), replay Maze's End (6 damage). That's pretty gross. And that's without any of the extra-land-drop cards.
Minamo is in there because it's part of how I triple mindslaver lock as well as other utility like being able to untap a phyrexian tower if someone forced me to tap it. Also I play the card in modern so I can't sell it and even if i could that wouldn't cover an intuition. Anyway, like you said, lack of fetchlands is a good reason not to run valakut and, like i said, I think I have enough win conditions at the moment to justify not running it. Maybe there's something about Valakut that I'm missing but im not so sure.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What is treesgobark playing right now?
Modern
Esper Control
Emeria Titan
EDH
Child of Alara Lands.dec
Paradox Sisay
Legacy
LED Dredge
Dreadstill
I've often wondered if the Scry Lands would be better in the place of Guildgates. Just being able to smooth out draws seems worthwhile. The Karoo lands seem interesting since some turns I can play 3-4 lands.
I totally understand why someone would want to move away from mazes end. It does free up a lot of slots. For me, it'd be 12 slots (gates, maze, amulet of vigor). And then I'd not play trinket mate anymore.
Minamo is in there because it's part of how I triple Mindslaver lock as well as other utility like being able to untap a Phyrexian Tower if someone forced me to tap it. Also I play the card in modern so I can't sell it and even if i could that wouldn't cover an intuition. Anyway, like you said, lack of fetchlands is a good reason not to run valakut and, like i said, I think I have enough win conditions at the moment to justify not running it. Maybe there's something about Valakut that I'm missing but im not so sure.
Cutting Gates wouldn't free much deck space for me because I would need to add other colour fixers (I run only just enough). Without Gates I would probably run fetches with duals and/or shocks; which would eat those freed up slots.
Often I find myself with a Gate in exile, which prevents me from winning with Maze's End anyway. But I do win that way occasionally, and it's fun to win through such a lands-centric means. It also provides an out to a number of locks that shut down our other win-conditions. And sometimes it helps to make the deck look weak. Fetching up ABUR duals is apt to be a red flag which telegraphs a powerful deck. Dropping a Gate helps me look more casual.
Minamo is in there because it's part of how I triple Mindslaver lock as well as other utility like being able to untap a Phyrexian Tower if someone forced me to tap it. Also I play the card in modern so I can't sell it and even if i could that wouldn't cover an intuition. Anyway, like you said, lack of fetchlands is a good reason not to run valakut and, like i said, I think I have enough win conditions at the moment to justify not running it. Maybe there's something about Valakut that I'm missing but im not so sure.
What do you think of Crystal Quarry & Cascading Cataracts? They fix the mana to cast Child quite well. Thoughts? Before I buy them in foil
Also, I'm running Astral Slide and Ubul Sar Gatekeepers + the new Cycling Duals (- Canyon Slough). Slide works well with Witness, Gatekeeper and Sun Titan and blinks out Indestructible creatures.
If I've commented on this thread it was a long time ago, but I've got about 2 to 2.5 years with CoA as my primary multiplayer commander deck. Crystal Quarry has always and will always be in my list. Cascading Cataracts is a new addition that will join it as a permanent feature. I utilize these lands to play CoA asap when being focused down by a more aggressive deck.
It is exciting that this thread is still reasonably checked in on. I'll have to post my list and talk about my card choices.
I notice some discussion at the top of this page (or previous page pending where this post falls) regarding basics. I only run a full set of Forests (4). No other basics included.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GBR Elves UBR ANT R Burn
UR Gift Storm GB/GR/GW/G Karn Tron GW Aura RW Burn
GBWUR Child of Alara BWR Kaalia of the Vast UWR Narset, Enlightened Master GWR Uril, the Miststalker
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." - Henry Ford
What do you think of Crystal Quarry & Cascading Cataracts? They fix the mana to cast Child quite well. Thoughts? Before I buy them in foil
I think about running Quarry and/or Cataracts sometimes. I never have because deck space is tight and I like the colour fixers I run.
Those lands are fantastic for casting Child, but not so hot for everything else. I'd say if you're colour-screwed too often, you need to add different fixers. If colour is rarely a problem but getting all five online at once is - these are perfect additions. And of course if you are almost never colour screwed at all, you don't need these (and might consider cutting back on fixers for more business).
I'm meaning to build a sideboard, and these lands will be great options for those games where I figure I'll need to lean extra hard on Child.
Also, I'm running Astral Slide and Ubul Sar Gatekeepers + the new Cycling Duals (- Canyon Slough). Slide works well with Witness, Gatekeeper and Sun Titan and blinks out Indestructible creatures.
This is really interesting, and makes a case for a fetchland + cycle-duals mana base. Are you running Lightning Rift? Seems like it would be pretty sweet.
Maybe worth throwing in some Onslaught or Saga lands too.
If you're going to emphasize a cycling-engine, isn't it best to solely focus on using Onslaught cycling lands? The difference in mana-efficiency between Onslaught cycling lands and the new Bicycle lands is huge. And since you're planning to cycle them, their fetchable + color-fixing nature will hardly ever matter.
When it comes down to it, building and designing a 5-color deck means having a solid manabase that means never having to resort to Bicycle lands or Cascading Cataracts/Crystal Quarry for fixing.
Not that those cards don't have their own place in other decks. For example, Cascading Cataracts seems best utilized in a deck with Mana Reflection.
Nitpicking would be saying it should cost 1 less because of the drawback of being a creature. But it does do something the turn you play it, despite the missed opportunity to add to the Magus cycle.
Nitpicking would be saying it should cost 1 less because of the drawback of being a creature.
EDH is not the only format. A legacy KotR deck would vastly prefer an attacker over a rock, and its stats aren't half bad either (the 3 toughness dodges most removal from the format's best LD deck). One could argue that being a 2/3 creature should increase the CMC.
If you're going to emphasize a cycling-engine, isn't it best to solely focus on using Onslaught cycling lands? The difference in mana-efficiency between Onslaught cycling lands and the new Bicycle lands is huge. And since you're planning to cycle them, their fetchable + color-fixing nature will hardly ever matter.
I was assuming a completed cycle (10 duals) when I posted.
I feel if you are going to make room for things like Slide and Rift, you want a healthy package of cyclers - and the only way I can see making the space is by cutting other colour fixers. Since these naturally demand a fetchland base, that means replacing Shocklands (or running them with Shocks as a budget alternative to ABUR duals).
This is why it matters to fetch them. And don't forget we can fetch them, feed them to Crop Rotation, Chasm, or Knight, only to Loam them back for cycling.
Wanting to cycle them also doesn't make the colour fixing irrelevant. With Crucible and the new Magus, we will want to cycle them and then play them from the yard. With a loam engine online, the cycling becomes redundant so we want some in-play value when we have these in multiples.
Does the utility from Slide and Rift offset the tempo set back of entering tapped? Probably not, but that might depend on how hostile your meta is. Decks not running Gates wouldn't mind as much - we can handles some of our fixers coming in tapped. And of course for those who can't or won't shell out for ABUR duals, it's a great way to build a KotR friendly fetchland mana base without breaking the bank.
If I were going to run these, I'd be tempted to run Onslaught cyclers too, maybe instead of basics.
In the case of running the full bicycle suite, I agree the shocks could be easily cut. They aren't really needed, especially when you're running abur duals already.
The cipt is not the main issue. When you get the engine going, the activation cost difference in cycling is huge though. Given the choice, you'd never want to be paying 2.
The cipt is not the main issue. When you get the engine going, the activation cost difference in cycling is huge though. Given the choice, you'd never want to be paying 2.
The higher activation cost is a concession we'd trade for the ability to conserve deck space.
Even in Legacy I am now running Sheltered Thicket and not Tranquil Thicket. Believe me, that extra mana makes a difference in that format! But Sheltered Thicket lets me skimp on Taigas, thus saving space for other utility.
Also, as good as the Onslaught cyclers are, there are not enough for me if I wanted to run Rift and Slide. If I'm running these, I want to reliably see cyclers every game.
I'm think perhaps this Strategy is best in a deck with no Gates or ABUR duals at all. Run 11 fetches, 10 bicyclers, 5 unicyclers, 5 basics, and Edge Of Autumn. I don't think I like Slide and Rift enough for this, but if I wanted to run them I'd consider this mana-base.
I could never 20 Duals, 10 Fetches and 10 Gates myself. I don’t think it's bad, just that personally I'm far too greedy for utility.
If paying 2 isn't too much, have you played Tireless Tracker? He's something that I want to try out.
I don't play 10 fetches. But after going all-in with Valakut, I've considered cutting shocks for more fetches. I like utility also, I think I just put it more towards non-land cards than you do at the moment. But I don't have sweetness like Island of Wak-Wak to show-off with.
I am all foil though. However, I'm considering going completely foil-less.
Also, as good as the Onslaught cyclers are, there are not enough for me if I wanted to run Rift and Slide. If I'm running these, I want to reliably see cyclers every game.
At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to for me as well. Slide just isn't for a lands.dec
If paying 2 isn't too much, have you played Tireless Tracker? He's something that I want to try out.
I've enjoyed Tracker very much in Legacy. It's another one that's destined for that wishing board I'm going to build one day soon. Seer's Sundial is similar but almost strictly worse (unless you see a lot more creature hate than artifact hate).
My issue with these is deck space. That's why the bicycle lands are worth considering - they don't really take slots because they replace other colour fixers. I don't think I'll be running any, but at the very least they make excellent budget options with fetches and Knight.
Looks like Tracker isn't even in the primer. Time for an update soon...
That said, I do have a few tricks that can possibly save me:
The other strategy is to kill the opponent!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
By the way, since you mentioned Song of Dryads, has anyone Vesuva'd something enchanted with Imprisoned in the Moon or Song of Dryads yet?
I try to avoid cards that don't have 'land' printed on them somewhere. But I'm screwing myself out of a lot of efficient and versatile answers. Terminus, Plow, etc, are solid cards.
Edit - Ulamog is 10 or 11 mana. Maybe the best plan is to be aggressive with Child (taking out their permanent based ramp). You can also lean on Strip Mine (or Storm Cauldron or Mana Vortex). You don't have to stop Ulamog from ever hitting the table - just delay it long enough that you can find a solution.
I think Ulamog will always be difficult for us, though.
Sadly not yet. It will be all the sweeter, though!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
In regards to the above discussion, I'd definitely play All is Dust to deal with indestructible permanents. Possibly the Karn and Ugin planeswalkers as well.
My list is built with resilience and late game dominance in mind. I want to be able to answer everything if possible and be able to win through any obstacle (but totally rely on other people for getting rid of rest in peace because i only have one Anguished Unmaking.) I'm continually upgrading the deck and just havent gotten around to buying intuition because its just so damn expensive for a pretty good effect and I'm a poor college student so thats my excuse.
Notable exclusions:
Maze's End/Guildgates - Honestly i just don't find them a fun way to win and also i dont run scapeshift so that doesnt help their case. The other reason is that I like having lots of different lands for different situations and the guildgates just take up so many deck spots.
Valakut/Prismatic Omen - I dont exactly see how hitting people for 3 for each mountain is going to win me a lot of games. Even if I have a Vesuva out and it's doubled I just dont see it. Maybe the extra reach would be worth it but I would have to playtest before buying into it. Also still no scapeshift so no dice there.
Inkmoth Nexus: I don't feel like its worth it when i have so many other win conditions already. Child does everything this does except it doesnt fly but I'd rather have trample anyway.
Anyway leave me your thoughts and I should be able to get back you guys!
1 Child of Alara
8 Artifact
1 Expedition Map
1 Horn of Greed
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mindslaver
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
7 Creature
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Riftsweeper
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ashen Rider
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Enchantment
1 Exploration
1 Burgeoning
1 Sacred Ground
1 Manabond
8 Instant
1 Crop Rotation
1 Punishing Fire
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pull from Eternity
1 Entomb
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force
14 Sorcery
1 Life from the Loam
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Reap and Sow
1 Tempt with Discovery
1 Runic Repetition
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Diabolic Revelation
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Gamble
1 Bring to Light
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Wargate
1 Academy Ruins
1 Command Tower
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 High Market
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Rupture Spire
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tolaria West
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Savage Lands
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Opulent Palace
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Turf
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Maze of Ith
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Blighted Fen
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Deserted Temple
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cascading Cataracts
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
Modern
Esper Control
Emeria Titan
EDH
Child of Alara Lands.dec
Paradox Sisay
Legacy
LED Dredge
Dreadstill
Prismatic Omen and Valakut is more than 3 damage at a time though. However, you're not running fetchlands so it's reasonable why you don't want to run it.
In my game last week, I had the Prismatic Omen + Valakut setup. Then I used Tolaria West for Thespian Stage. Maze's End activation for a guildgate (6 damage), replay Maze's End (6 damage). That's pretty gross. And that's without any of the extra-land-drop cards.
Gitrog and Bobo are very different land builds. Child is much more about building the engine in play, less about the general. Definitely worth a spin, especially if you already have the cards.
Minamo is in there because it's part of how I triple mindslaver lock as well as other utility like being able to untap a phyrexian tower if someone forced me to tap it. Also I play the card in modern so I can't sell it and even if i could that wouldn't cover an intuition. Anyway, like you said, lack of fetchlands is a good reason not to run valakut and, like i said, I think I have enough win conditions at the moment to justify not running it. Maybe there's something about Valakut that I'm missing but im not so sure.
Modern
Esper Control
Emeria Titan
EDH
Child of Alara Lands.dec
Paradox Sisay
Legacy
LED Dredge
Dreadstill
I totally understand why someone would want to move away from mazes end. It does free up a lot of slots. For me, it'd be 12 slots (gates, maze, amulet of vigor). And then I'd not play trinket mate anymore.
Mindslaver causes you to sacrifice it as part of its cost, how are you locking people with Mindslaver and Minamo, School at Water's Edge?
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Often I find myself with a Gate in exile, which prevents me from winning with Maze's End anyway. But I do win that way occasionally, and it's fun to win through such a lands-centric means. It also provides an out to a number of locks that shut down our other win-conditions. And sometimes it helps to make the deck look weak. Fetching up ABUR duals is apt to be a red flag which telegraphs a powerful deck. Dropping a Gate helps me look more casual.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
They might have meant academy ruins
My Trade Thread
If I've commented on this thread it was a long time ago, but I've got about 2 to 2.5 years with CoA as my primary multiplayer commander deck. Crystal Quarry has always and will always be in my list. Cascading Cataracts is a new addition that will join it as a permanent feature. I utilize these lands to play CoA asap when being focused down by a more aggressive deck.
It is exciting that this thread is still reasonably checked in on. I'll have to post my list and talk about my card choices.
I notice some discussion at the top of this page (or previous page pending where this post falls) regarding basics. I only run a full set of Forests (4). No other basics included.
UBR ANT
R Burn
GB/GR/GW/G Karn Tron
GW Aura
RW Burn
BWR Kaalia of the Vast
UWR Narset, Enlightened Master
GWR Uril, the Miststalker
Welcome. As a fellow Legacy RUG-Lander, I'm sure you'll love this deck!
I think about running Quarry and/or Cataracts sometimes. I never have because deck space is tight and I like the colour fixers I run.
Those lands are fantastic for casting Child, but not so hot for everything else. I'd say if you're colour-screwed too often, you need to add different fixers. If colour is rarely a problem but getting all five online at once is - these are perfect additions. And of course if you are almost never colour screwed at all, you don't need these (and might consider cutting back on fixers for more business).
I'm meaning to build a sideboard, and these lands will be great options for those games where I figure I'll need to lean extra hard on Child.
This is really interesting, and makes a case for a fetchland + cycle-duals mana base. Are you running Lightning Rift? Seems like it would be pretty sweet.
Maybe worth throwing in some Onslaught or Saga lands too.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
When it comes down to it, building and designing a 5-color deck means having a solid manabase that means never having to resort to Bicycle lands or Cascading Cataracts/Crystal Quarry for fixing.
Not that those cards don't have their own place in other decks. For example, Cascading Cataracts seems best utilized in a deck with Mana Reflection.
I'll get back to you about this (busy day today).
For now I'd like to present:
Enjoy!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Auto-include, makes me feel very good about my inclusion Green Sun's Zenith.
EDH is not the only format. A legacy KotR deck would vastly prefer an attacker over a rock, and its stats aren't half bad either (the 3 toughness dodges most removal from the format's best LD deck). One could argue that being a 2/3 creature should increase the CMC.
Because WotC used to be cool but now they suck? MaRo totally sold his soul when he denounced Time Spiral. That was his baby! Shame on him.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I was assuming a completed cycle (10 duals) when I posted.
I feel if you are going to make room for things like Slide and Rift, you want a healthy package of cyclers - and the only way I can see making the space is by cutting other colour fixers. Since these naturally demand a fetchland base, that means replacing Shocklands (or running them with Shocks as a budget alternative to ABUR duals).
This is why it matters to fetch them. And don't forget we can fetch them, feed them to Crop Rotation, Chasm, or Knight, only to Loam them back for cycling.
Wanting to cycle them also doesn't make the colour fixing irrelevant. With Crucible and the new Magus, we will want to cycle them and then play them from the yard. With a loam engine online, the cycling becomes redundant so we want some in-play value when we have these in multiples.
Does the utility from Slide and Rift offset the tempo set back of entering tapped? Probably not, but that might depend on how hostile your meta is. Decks not running Gates wouldn't mind as much - we can handles some of our fixers coming in tapped. And of course for those who can't or won't shell out for ABUR duals, it's a great way to build a KotR friendly fetchland mana base without breaking the bank.
If I were going to run these, I'd be tempted to run Onslaught cyclers too, maybe instead of basics.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
The cipt is not the main issue. When you get the engine going, the activation cost difference in cycling is huge though. Given the choice, you'd never want to be paying 2.
The higher activation cost is a concession we'd trade for the ability to conserve deck space.
Even in Legacy I am now running Sheltered Thicket and not Tranquil Thicket. Believe me, that extra mana makes a difference in that format! But Sheltered Thicket lets me skimp on Taigas, thus saving space for other utility.
Also, as good as the Onslaught cyclers are, there are not enough for me if I wanted to run Rift and Slide. If I'm running these, I want to reliably see cyclers every game.
I'm think perhaps this Strategy is best in a deck with no Gates or ABUR duals at all. Run 11 fetches, 10 bicyclers, 5 unicyclers, 5 basics, and Edge Of Autumn. I don't think I like Slide and Rift enough for this, but if I wanted to run them I'd consider this mana-base.
I could never 20 Duals, 10 Fetches and 10 Gates myself. I don’t think it's bad, just that personally I'm far too greedy for utility.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I don't play 10 fetches. But after going all-in with Valakut, I've considered cutting shocks for more fetches. I like utility also, I think I just put it more towards non-land cards than you do at the moment. But I don't have sweetness like Island of Wak-Wak to show-off with.
I am all foil though. However, I'm considering going completely foil-less.
At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to for me as well. Slide just isn't for a lands.dec
I've enjoyed Tracker very much in Legacy. It's another one that's destined for that wishing board I'm going to build one day soon. Seer's Sundial is similar but almost strictly worse (unless you see a lot more creature hate than artifact hate).
My issue with these is deck space. That's why the bicycle lands are worth considering - they don't really take slots because they replace other colour fixers. I don't think I'll be running any, but at the very least they make excellent budget options with fetches and Knight.
Looks like Tracker isn't even in the primer. Time for an update soon...
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Land: Desert
T: Add {C} to your mana pool.
2, T, Sacrifice a desert: Exile all card from all graveyards.
It's Bog number 2, but nice that we can trigger it instantly from the battlefield.
Edit - now that I've actually read the card text, it's not very good. For some reason I thought it hit only a single graveyard.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats