Also, what is your guys' opinion on Gauntlet of Power? Has this card helped you enough to nullify the downside of helping opponents? Have there been instances where the group hug-ness has screwed you over? Just interested in hearing your thoughts.
Also, what is your guys' opinion on Gauntlet of Power? Has this card helped you enough to nullify the downside of helping opponents? Have there been instances where the group hug-ness has screwed you over? Just interested in hearing your thoughts.
Yeah, given how frequently an Urborg is usually on the table, I don't think it's worth giving your opponent the extra mana.
Your opponents can only tap their basic lands for black mana if black is in their commander's color identity. So Urborg is not that big of a deal with Gauntlet, typically.
Also, what is your guys' opinion on Gauntlet of Power? Has this card helped you enough to nullify the downside of helping opponents? Have there been instances where the group hug-ness has screwed you over? Just interested in hearing your thoughts.
From a competitive Magic standpoint, the mana doublers are about the only reason to limit yourself to one color. If you think the downside is too great, mono-colored commanders are not for you. With that out of the way, the card is a wrecking machine. If you untap with it, you should most typically win the following turn.
I see people posting about the downside of this and extraplanar lens so often, and it drives me nuts. Guess what: if the board state is a bad scenario for that card, simply do not play it. You mulligan them away in your opening hand, and then when you draw one with a developed board, you do stupid things like drop it, reanimate a Sakura-Tribe Elder or something a couple times, then All is Dust the board away. The ability to follow it up with strong plays is so high. The upside, at least assuming your deck is built to abuse tons of mana, is too good to ignore.
Actually, Urborg plus Gauntlet does turn your opponents' lands into better Ancient Tombs. See rule 117.12; Gauntlet sees that they tried to tap for black and adds an additional black mana. That black mana is then converted into colorless. It's usually not a problem though. My list only runs Caged Sun for my artifact doubles just in case regardless.
So why have so many of you guys cut the Stax element out of your Chainer decks? I've been reading the last few pages and it seems like everyone has cut Smokestack, Bitterblossom, etc. Were these cards just not performing for you guys? It seems like they're quite useful for hitting things Black can't normally deal with, plus the effect is very asymmetrical when you're able to recur creatures as easily as Chainer (and lands with Crucible).
So why have so many of you guys cut the Stax element out of your Chainer decks? I've been reading the last few pages and it seems like everyone has cut Smokestack, Bitterblossom, etc. Were these cards just not performing for you guys? It seems like they're quite useful for hitting things Black can't normally deal with, plus the effect is very asymmetrical when you're able to recur creatures as easily as Chainer (and lands with Crucible).
It's because Chainer lends himself to being a very creature based combo-aggro deck with cheating creatures into play. Stax decks are slow and difficult to build because in order for them to be effective you need to go deep into the Stax effects or they just turn into "Oh I drew this card. I guess I can use it".
Hey all! Updating my own Chainer list and was pondering a thought...
Has anyone considered adding MTG Origins Liliana when she is available. Either as part of the 99, or building around her in a similar fashion to Chainer?
Hey all! Updating my own Chainer list and was pondering a thought...
Has anyone considered adding MTG Origins Liliana when she is available. Either as part of the 99, or building around her in a similar fashion to Chainer?
What does this deck do when someone sticks a Graffdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace? I love mono black, but hate being nigh-unable to deal with artifacts and enchantments (at least in a mana-efficient way).
Those types of effects are really rough on Chainer and there really isn't a wide range of options we have to get rid of them. Karn Liberated is probably the best but is very expensive in all respects (I don't own one). Spine of Ish Sah is also expensive in terms of mana but gets the job done. Personally I run Nevinyrral's Disk which serves as my big answer to those pesky enchantments and artifacts. Trading Post and Junk Diver are around to recur it if necessary. I don't like to run any tutors besides Buried Alive and Dimir House Guard so I have a hard time searching it up when I need it. Assuming I can't go find it, I usually just do all I can to screw up that player's boardstate while making it very clear I wouldn't be doing it if they had not cast their Rest in Peace.
Other than those options, your best bet is to pray someone else takes care of it.
What does this deck do when someone sticks a Graffdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace? I love mono black, but hate being nigh-unable to deal with artifacts and enchantments (at least in a mana-efficient way).
This is another reason why I really push my build away from having my own deck rely on its graveyard. Chainer is powerful enough that he does not need to be built around in cute ways. If you just build a powerful MBC deck that has a few narrow card choices tweaked for the commander, you don't have to worry about graveyard shenanigans shutting you down. Turns out that just reanimating your opponents Avenger of Zendikar is a more efficient kill than playing a mediocre card because it's a sac outlet, hoping we have tons of mana, reanimating a mediocre card like Grey Merchant (if not being looped this is a 5 mana chump blocker who gains us a non-game-changing amount of life), and hoping every opponent ignored the graveyard while deck building. And hoping to somehow be able to continue this for a couple turns.
This is also why Myojin of Night's Reach is sooooo gross for us. People talk about the cost (8cmc) being prohibitive, then go on diatribes about "looping" creatures (3 activations being 9 mana). Instead of looping a Merchant (again, a very poor card in a vacuum), we can make every opponent discard their hand (end of their draw step for added value), then reanimate everything worthwhile. They have a one-turn window to draw an out.
Hi, I've been following this thread for over 2 years now and Chainer has been good to me with the OP's decklist (although to be honest, Chainer rarely even has to come out for me to win :p). Recently though, our playgroup suddenly played a lot of land destruction sweeps, eg Armageddon and Jokulhaups, with Jokulhaups having 3 copies soon to be 4, which means all my opponents will have one (we're 5 ppl). I just want to ask if there are any way of hastening our recovery or even weathering the storm. I just got Soul of New Phyrexia and haven't tested it yet, but are there more options for us?
Hi, I've been following this thread for over 2 years now and Chainer has been good to me with the OP's decklist (although to be honest, Chainer rarely even has to come out for me to win :p). Recently though, our playgroup suddenly played a lot of land destruction sweeps, eg Armageddon and Jokulhaups, with Jokulhaups having 3 copies soon to be 4, which means all my opponents will have one (we're 5 ppl). I just want to ask if there are any way of hastening our recovery or even weathering the storm. I just got Soul of New Phyrexia and haven't tested it yet, but are there more options for us?
Thanks in advance
First of all, I feel bad for you, having to play in a group that actually enjoys Armageddon effects in EDH.
Finally, a meta like that would make me load up as many extra artifact mana sources as possible. From the mostobvious to the lesspopular. Even the reallyodd choices could mean the difference between playing the game and sitting there with a hand full of junk you can't cast.
I'm seriously considering running Vulturous Aven in my Chainer list. A nice, repeatable Sign in Blood on a body seems good to me. Not saying it's an auto-include by a longshot, but it's a nice budget card that could do a lot of good in the right decklist.
Also on the budget side of things, I've been considering adding Dark Prophecy to my list for a while. It does things the deck wants, and it adds to devotion, which is a nice little addition. It's not as good as Necropotence or Phyrexian Arena, but I like the idea of it.
I'm seriously considering running Vulturous Aven in my Chainer list. A nice, repeatable Sign in Blood on a body seems good to me. Not saying it's an auto-include by a longshot, but it's a nice budget card that could do a lot of good in the right decklist.
The only problem would be that reanimating him with Chainer is almost entirely out of the question because you'd be using BBB and 5 life for just 2 cards.
I still need to read through this thread, but I'm interested in building this soon. I'm thinking of running Merciless Executioner in addition to Fleshbag Marauder and Slum Reaper since I'll be without a few of the pieces like Nirkana Revenant for a while. Just curious if that's too many of the same effect.
I still need to read through this thread, but I'm interested in building this soon. I'm thinking of running Merciless Executioner in addition to Fleshbag Marauder and Slum Reaper since I'll be without a few of the pieces like Nirkana Revenant for a while. Just curious if that's too many of the same effect.
Chainer is flexible enough that you can auto-tune it to your own meta, so if you need to run more Edicts, it's probably fine. Same thing with Nirkana Revenant: it's a mana-doubler, so it's nice to have when you want to make a big turn, but it's also a creature that dies to most removal, so it's not going to last as long as a Caged Sun or the like, but then it also could come back with Chainer, and so on. Point being, there are very few individual cards that you simply MUST own, and the Revenant isn't one of them.
I use Nirkana Revenant as a mana-doubler. It's funny, but the +1/+1 buff can be a detriment when it comes to Skullclamp and Bloodghast/Reassembling Skeleton without a sac outlet.
Sometimes Urborg + Gauntlet helps non-black opponents, as well.
Modern: G/R Tron + RUG Scapeshift
Legacy: Reanimator
Standard: G/b Devotion
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Your opponents can only tap their basic lands for black mana if black is in their commander's color identity. So Urborg is not that big of a deal with Gauntlet, typically.
From a competitive Magic standpoint, the mana doublers are about the only reason to limit yourself to one color. If you think the downside is too great, mono-colored commanders are not for you. With that out of the way, the card is a wrecking machine. If you untap with it, you should most typically win the following turn.
I see people posting about the downside of this and extraplanar lens so often, and it drives me nuts. Guess what: if the board state is a bad scenario for that card, simply do not play it. You mulligan them away in your opening hand, and then when you draw one with a developed board, you do stupid things like drop it, reanimate a Sakura-Tribe Elder or something a couple times, then All is Dust the board away. The ability to follow it up with strong plays is so high. The upside, at least assuming your deck is built to abuse tons of mana, is too good to ignore.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
It's because Chainer lends himself to being a very creature based combo-aggro deck with cheating creatures into play. Stax decks are slow and difficult to build because in order for them to be effective you need to go deep into the Stax effects or they just turn into "Oh I drew this card. I guess I can use it".
Has anyone considered adding MTG Origins Liliana when she is available. Either as part of the 99, or building around her in a similar fashion to Chainer?
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Also... Sidisi, Undead Vizier, IMO, is an auto include for Chainer. So good!
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
I will certainly be adding both of them to my list in the near future.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Other than those options, your best bet is to pray someone else takes care of it.
This is another reason why I really push my build away from having my own deck rely on its graveyard. Chainer is powerful enough that he does not need to be built around in cute ways. If you just build a powerful MBC deck that has a few narrow card choices tweaked for the commander, you don't have to worry about graveyard shenanigans shutting you down. Turns out that just reanimating your opponents Avenger of Zendikar is a more efficient kill than playing a mediocre card because it's a sac outlet, hoping we have tons of mana, reanimating a mediocre card like Grey Merchant (if not being looped this is a 5 mana chump blocker who gains us a non-game-changing amount of life), and hoping every opponent ignored the graveyard while deck building. And hoping to somehow be able to continue this for a couple turns.
This is also why Myojin of Night's Reach is sooooo gross for us. People talk about the cost (8cmc) being prohibitive, then go on diatribes about "looping" creatures (3 activations being 9 mana). Instead of looping a Merchant (again, a very poor card in a vacuum), we can make every opponent discard their hand (end of their draw step for added value), then reanimate everything worthwhile. They have a one-turn window to draw an out.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Thanks in advance
First of all, I feel bad for you, having to play in a group that actually enjoys Armageddon effects in EDH.
Second, the best option is probably Crucible of Worlds, a card you really should already be playing. I run it myself with only Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse as "fetches" and it's amazing.
Finally, a meta like that would make me load up as many extra artifact mana sources as possible. From the most obvious to the less popular. Even the really odd choices could mean the difference between playing the game and sitting there with a hand full of junk you can't cast.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Also on the budget side of things, I've been considering adding Dark Prophecy to my list for a while. It does things the deck wants, and it adds to devotion, which is a nice little addition. It's not as good as Necropotence or Phyrexian Arena, but I like the idea of it.
WU Bruna UW | R Kiki-Jiki R | RB New Chainer BR
Legacy - Burn | Pauper - Reanimator | Aristocrats | Burn
@votechainer2016
I already have Crucible of Worlds and a few swamp fetches (Polluted Delta, Bloodstained Mire) Thanks to KTK. Only one person plays Armageddon, and 3 of them plays Jokulhaups which wipes the board save for enchantments and planeswalkers. I would like some insight to Soul of New Phyrexia especially when combined with Entomb and also maybe Nevinyrral's Disk >:D
@reltastic
I might also try Vulturous Aven.
Has anyone tried Grave Betrayal? I really am looking for options to either subvert/prevent the effects of Jokulhaups
I still need to read through this thread, but I'm interested in building this soon. I'm thinking of running Merciless Executioner in addition to Fleshbag Marauder and Slum Reaper since I'll be without a few of the pieces like Nirkana Revenant for a while. Just curious if that's too many of the same effect.
old thread
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old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Chainer is flexible enough that you can auto-tune it to your own meta, so if you need to run more Edicts, it's probably fine. Same thing with Nirkana Revenant: it's a mana-doubler, so it's nice to have when you want to make a big turn, but it's also a creature that dies to most removal, so it's not going to last as long as a Caged Sun or the like, but then it also could come back with Chainer, and so on. Point being, there are very few individual cards that you simply MUST own, and the Revenant isn't one of them.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani