The fact that only one person has mentioned Oversold Cemetery thus far strikes me as slightly ridiculous. I mean, things are GOING to die, and your graveyard IS going to get filled, so why not include a free way to recur utility creatures? I mean, think about it.
Sac Eternal Witness -> Back into hand with Oversold Cemetery -> Cast it, getting back Awesome Tutor #7 -> Cast Awesome Tutor #7.
My personal take on this deck thus far is proving more "Play stuff -> Nuke the living s*** out of the board -> Get it all back." The backup plan seems to be bouncing Avenger of Zendikar between the graveyard and the battlefield to create a nutso amount of tokens that growGROWGROW whenever I play land. I might even throw in Ruin Ghost to improve this strategy. That and a Seedborn Muse would be pretty freakin sweet in a multiplayer game.
The fact that only one person has mentioned Oversold Cemetery thus far strikes me as slightly ridiculous. I mean, things are GOING to die, and your graveyard IS going to get filled, so why not include a free way to recur utility creatures? I mean, think about it.
Sac Eternal Witness -> Back into hand with Oversold Cemetery -> Cast it, getting back Awesome Tutor #7 -> Cast Awesome Tutor #7.
My personal take on this deck thus far is proving more "Play stuff -> Nuke the living s*** out of the board -> Get it all back." The backup plan seems to be bouncing Avenger of Zendikar between the graveyard and the battlefield to create a nutso amount of tokens that growGROWGROW whenever I play land. I might even throw in Ruin Ghost to improve this strategy. That and a Seedborn Muse would be pretty freakin sweet in a multiplayer game.
Oversold Cemetery is nice but the scenario you set up is already possible with our General. Yes, it can be Hindered or tucked in some other fashion, but, depending on your play group, he, plus the other creature based recursion, gets the job done. I can see how it and Genesis can be good if you are in a blue heavy meta that does mean things like that, however. I'd like to see your list when it's done as well to see your take. I love Karador because he isn't a General with a quintessential build.
1. It puts the creature in your hand and not staight onto the board. There are too many good cards that put creatures straight into play that we don't need this.
2. It's an enchanntment and not a creature. The same arguements that apply to Debtors' Knell can be applied here. It's harder to tutor and harder to recur.
I have played the card and did not feel it was right in this deck. I do believe that it is a good card but have not been upset at not running it since I cut it many moons ago.
I play both. I tested Momentous because I had a foil of it, and it turned out to be amazing since I had very little ways of gaining life. The reason I used Greater Good over Momentous before I ran both was that you can do silly things like Terastadon, sac him, replay him out of grave and repeat every turn. It enables silly things like Yosei locks, etc. and requires no mana open after you play it, keeping all of your guys safe from tuck/exile so they end up in the grave/command zone like you want them to.
Xiaos, I think the rest of the people in the thread covered this better than I could. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. You also share my idea that Oversold Cemetery is a great card, but that we need more value from our reanimation.
Deafbeats, I'm glad you kinda handled that query on your own. I've been in that sort of moment before. >.<;; That said, I think both of those cards are fine, but the repeated usability of Greater Good makes it the more attractive option. It's a card I keep wanting to test, but I never get around to. Maybe that Mind's Eye in my list can come out... Worth a look. Darchow, thanks for clarifying that all for me as well.
Metalheadmarker, I have two things to mention to you. One, welcome to the thread. Two, you've given me some of the highest praise a magic player can ask for. I'm incredibly flattered that you would base your deck design on mine, and I hope it plays as well for you as it has for me. If you ever have questions or if you find some super cool stuff while you're building your deck, shoot me a pm, or post in here. I'd really like to see how it works out for you.
Has everyone gotten there copies of the Graveborn special edition deck? Have to say I love those foil copies of Entomb and Buried Alive. There are some other great cards in the list too but I love thes most since they let me finish my entire foil EDH decklist XD.
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Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door, But Knowledge is a skeleton key. ~Jace Beleren~
I haven't picked up my copy of Graveborn yet, though I probably should. >.< Well, now I know what I'm spending some holiday money on. I was about to ask if Entomb was really worth it, until I realized that it is good for the same reason Buried Alive is: it is essentially a creature tutor for 1 at instant speed whenever Karador is out. Worth picking up I suppose. Thanks Hughes for the excellent plan.
But now for the tricky part: what do I cut for Entomb?
I see you still run Garruk Wildspeaker I would cut him for Entomb. He just doesn't do enough, double so if you play multiplayer. Entomb gets any card to your graveyard at instant speed which sets you up for your mid to late game where as Garruk takes too long to give overkill and overkill should be win more most of the time and thus not necessary.
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Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door, But Knowledge is a skeleton key. ~Jace Beleren~
I use Garruk mostly as a means of untapping my lands. He's been pretty useful in that regard, but Entomb is SO GOOD. I guess he'll be the one to cut. So many changes for this deck recently (read: 3, if I like the Yosei and Greater Good plan). We will see once I pick up my copy of Graveborn.
Greater Good is always great, and I recomend droping Night's Whisper (it just feels too one shot in my opinion. If you want to run Yosei I would recommend going combo or you will think he is lack luster. A great threat at most any stage is Serra Acsendant, turn one it is huge threat and mid-late game it can bring you out of a bad spot easyily by itself (and it is so easy to recur with Karador).
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Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door, But Knowledge is a skeleton key. ~Jace Beleren~
Hey guys, thanks for the feeback. Hughes, you pointed out the fact that I still have a Night's Whisper on my posted list, which I believe came out a long time ago. Time to fix that. >.< The Combo with Yosei and with Karmic Guide and Reveillark is one of the reasons I am hesitant to put Greater Good in to begin with, much less Yosei. I'm not quite sure what I wanna do quite yet. Not a huge fan of Serra Ascendant though. Maybe Puppeteer Clique could go in here, but I'm not terribly impressed with that either. We'll have to see. I want something different in the list, and we'll just see what happens.
Cedrix, I think that Volrath's Stronghold is a little unnecessary in my build. I've tested it before, and I am not a fan. Phyrexian Tower, however, should totally be in here somewhere. Probably gonna cut the Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for it, since I want that one for another deck.
Also, the Night's Whisper that was in there came out some time ago for a Bloodgift Demon. I figured it was much better. Thanks again Hughes for pointing that out.
Glad to hear you have already cut night whisper, rune scarred demon is a great card. I still think Greater Good is great even if you don't plan on going infinite, sac a chump blocker to dump even 3 cards after one draw can still lead to more options with Karador. I don't know if Phyrexian Tower is better than High Market, but the market seems to draw less hate (IMO).
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Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door, But Knowledge is a skeleton key. ~Jace Beleren~
Is any one trying out Deathrender or Nim Deathmantle? The former has a lot of synergy with sac outlets or skullclamp, turning your 1/1s into huge guys, while the latter has combo potential with any sac engine, Yosei lock any1?
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
I like the idea that Deathrender can cheat dudes into play for you, but at that rate I would almost rather go with Lurking Predators. I know they're vastly different in some ways, but the end goal is similar. I wanna avoid Nim Deathmantle if I can because playing infinite combos is not my style. A powerful addition though, if that's your thing.
Also, Hughes, why not play both? Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth does nothing for me really in this deck, and other decks could use it more. I would rather have Phyrexian Tower in that slot.
Oh I think they are both great cards. But the market gets less hate in my meta, the tower usually gets blown up a soon as it hits the board (though I don't understand the irrational hate for the tower). Also don't forget that Urborg sets up your swampwalkers like sheoldred, not always something to jump up for joy but it has resulted a win for me more than once.
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Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door, But Knowledge is a skeleton key. ~Jace Beleren~
I actually took the death render out last night, lol. I figured in the long run it wouldn't help that much neway. But the deathmantle, that is staying in. Games on cockatrice can be very cutthroat. Btw, on the stronghold topic, I'd totally leave it in bear, its so good, especially in the scenarios where Karador isn't an option. Also, it can be used as pseudo anti-yard hate.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Made an enormous (read: expensive) overhaul on this bad boy, and she is playing better than ever (and is apparently gender confused). I'm trying to put together two other decks right now as well, and have no idea what to do, but this one is staying stationary as hell. I love the was this goes, and I wanna thank you guys for steering me the right way.
I see you still have the Rav karoo lands in your list. Is this because of budget constraints? Honestly, they're not that good and if you could replace them you should.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Glad I could make ya smile Mkxyz. And yes Blackkithkin, those are due to budget constraints, unfortunately. I've gotten 2-for-1'd (felt more like a 10-for-1, considering how far back I felt like I went) like, three times in the past two days with those things and a Strip Mine. As soon as I bite the bullet (read: lose my mind) and buy the duals, I'm replacing these things.
I cut the escort because he never felt like he did enough. Yosei offers the same protection against wrath spells, albeit in a more rattlesnake kind of way. He was cue, but I was not a fan of Mr. Rhinoceros.
Hi IceBear, I've been lurking in the forums for a while now and just registered to thank you for a nice deck you constructed with the help of everyone. Primer is definitely awesome. I would like to use your list as a baseline on my upcoming karador deck since I'm on a slight budget and needs to cut off some cards on the official list.
Can you suggest me some alternatives for some of the expensive ones? I just came back from playing and I would be starting to build from scratch.
Sac Eternal Witness -> Back into hand with Oversold Cemetery -> Cast it, getting back Awesome Tutor #7 -> Cast Awesome Tutor #7.
Wash, rinse, repeat. I don't know about you, but the ability to Tooth and Nail or Demonic Tutor or other general awesomeness each turn strikes me as being pretty cool. Combine that with Genesis, Debtors' Knell, Reya Dawnbringer and, of course, our fearless leader, as well as ways to stock the graveyard and you've got the makings of some mad, mad shenanigans.
My personal take on this deck thus far is proving more "Play stuff -> Nuke the living s*** out of the board -> Get it all back." The backup plan seems to be bouncing Avenger of Zendikar between the graveyard and the battlefield to create a nutso amount of tokens that growGROWGROW whenever I play land. I might even throw in Ruin Ghost to improve this strategy. That and a Seedborn Muse would be pretty freakin sweet in a multiplayer game.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Oversold Cemetery is nice but the scenario you set up is already possible with our General. Yes, it can be Hindered or tucked in some other fashion, but, depending on your play group, he, plus the other creature based recursion, gets the job done. I can see how it and Genesis can be good if you are in a blue heavy meta that does mean things like that, however. I'd like to see your list when it's done as well to see your take. I love Karador because he isn't a General with a quintessential build.
n0 c0mb0z Sharuum:symw::symu::symb:
Seton Druid Party:symg:
Drana Big Mana Black
Baru Landfall:symg:
Venser:symu:
Animar tempo:symu::symr::symg: (Retired)Azami, Lady of Card Advantage(Retired =[ )1. It puts the creature in your hand and not staight onto the board. There are too many good cards that put creatures straight into play that we don't need this.
2. It's an enchanntment and not a creature. The same arguements that apply to Debtors' Knell can be applied here. It's harder to tutor and harder to recur.
I have played the card and did not feel it was right in this deck. I do believe that it is a good card but have not been upset at not running it since I cut it many moons ago.
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
But. As I was typing this, I figure some people, like people who would play this would love to discard 3 creatures, that's it isn't it.
I feel silly now, I've thought about why people make this choice over and over and it never came to me.
Decks:
WUG Jenara, Asura of War
WR Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
WU Lavinia of the Tenth
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
Deafbeats, I'm glad you kinda handled that query on your own. I've been in that sort of moment before. >.<;; That said, I think both of those cards are fine, but the repeated usability of Greater Good makes it the more attractive option. It's a card I keep wanting to test, but I never get around to. Maybe that Mind's Eye in my list can come out... Worth a look. Darchow, thanks for clarifying that all for me as well.
Metalheadmarker, I have two things to mention to you. One, welcome to the thread. Two, you've given me some of the highest praise a magic player can ask for. I'm incredibly flattered that you would base your deck design on mine, and I hope it plays as well for you as it has for me. If you ever have questions or if you find some super cool stuff while you're building your deck, shoot me a pm, or post in here. I'd really like to see how it works out for you.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
But now for the tricky part: what do I cut for Entomb?
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
Cedrix, I think that Volrath's Stronghold is a little unnecessary in my build. I've tested it before, and I am not a fan. Phyrexian Tower, however, should totally be in here somewhere. Probably gonna cut the Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for it, since I want that one for another deck.
EDIT: Actually, I can't go infinite with just the Greater Good, the Reveillark, and the Karmic Guide. I can reanimate a lot, but the ability to go infinite there would require Saffi Eriksdotter or Mirror Entity, so I may actually be comfortable with putting it in, as well as Yosei, the Morning Star. Time to go card hunting.
Also, the Night's Whisper that was in there came out some time ago for a Bloodgift Demon. I figured it was much better. Thanks again Hughes for pointing that out.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Also, Hughes, why not play both? Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth does nothing for me really in this deck, and other decks could use it more. I would rather have Phyrexian Tower in that slot.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Brute force can sometimes knock down a locked door,
But Knowledge is a skeleton key.
~Jace Beleren~
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
this deck, IceBear
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
How has Greater Good been for you? I found it slightly underwhelming.
Experimental Kraj
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Can you suggest me some alternatives for some of the expensive ones? I just came back from playing and I would be starting to build from scratch.
'Greatness, at any cost.'
Rafiq - Karador - Teferi - Momir Vig - Reaper King - Daretti