DuskHorizons, you don't really need infinite counters, all you need is counters at least equal to the highest CMC creature in your deck. Further experience counters are unneccessary. So realistically if you have six or seven tokens out, resolve Meren, and immediately feed your tokens to a sac outlet like Vish Kal or Ashnod's Altar or some such, you will immediately have all the experience counters you'll ever need. Then you can just loop Meren indefinitely (albeit a bit clunkily) with Saffi Eriksdotter ("the other Reveillark"), and chain them all together with other reanimator bodies like Lark, Karmic Guide, or Phyrexian Delver to repeatedly bring sizeable groups of bodies back to the battlefield.
Personally I don't favor this scheme because I see Meren as simply a slower and less reliable Karmic Guide / Phyrexian Delver type effect, and my Karador list was already overstuffed with such effects. Meren requires creature deaths to become better than Gravedigger, and, while she has a decent cost for her ability and body, lacks other relevant abilities. Frankly I think I'd rather spend a slot on good old Genesis. Meren is great if she is the deck's General, since you can get her back repeatedly (obviously you'd want to voltron her up with some good equipments / enchantments, like Asceticism, Darksteel Plate, and Swiftfoot Boots). But as a member of the 99, I think she's a bit on the weak side as body-plus-reanimators go.
Besides, my Karador list of old - the dedicated pure-Dredge variant - became extremely boring to play a long time ago; too many of its games ended very similarly ("if no one has a Tormod's Crypt effect this turn, I'm going off and killing everyone"). So now I'm rebuilding him as a Tribal Spirits deck focused around Kamigawa's Soulshift and Spiritcrafting abilities. It'll be lower on the raw power scale, but much higher on FUN factor - and just how often does the average EDH game get to see cards like Elder Pine of Jukai doing their thing?
Sorry if Necro-ing, but I have worked on my own karador. I find dimir house guard is very useful, more so with the release of Utter End. I am also curious if anyone has tried using one of the big 3 x/y swords or more in him? Famine for mana, ice for draw, shadow for extra recursion. I don't enjoy the new combo variant as I don't find it as true to the Junk creature toolbox idea that I/we love playing and am running Saffi - Lark - Guide for combo finishing.
I do not run fleshbag which I know is odd for Karador but it doesn't recur to Lark and often isnt worth the recursion from other sources. I have only been running one free sac outlet (viscera seer) for the infinite combo. Anyone running this kind of combo finisher run only one to leave room for more toolbox and just search it when needed?
I have played Karador for years and I play it as sort of a toolbox with combo finisher. I don't think the swords are necessary for a deck like this....they seem like win more, and you have utility creatures that can be recurred for the same effects. I don't run fleshbag either....but I run a handfull of kill spells. Also, spore frog is an mvp.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Holy crap, is IceBear necro'ing his own thread? That'd be fitting right? Since it's reanimator and all, and I play Karador, Ghost Chieftain? Alright, bad pun is bad. What's happening peeps? It's been a LONG while since I've been on here, or really thought about anything Magic related in general; real life is a hell of a drug, kids. 0/10, would not recommend. I know I lost my primer status and I'm not salty about it at all; I wasn't around to maintain the thread anymore and I was barely keeping up with new sets. I'm happy to let you young whippersnappers run primers for the deck which I will shamelessly borrow from when testing new card ideas.
That said, I got the itch to dig this old beast back out to play again and I fell in love all over again. Still my favorite deck to play, still pilots like a dream. Naturally I wanted to see if there was anything cool and shiny and new to try out, but after going through all the sets I missed I was not that impressed by anything I saw. Might cut Disciple of Bolas for Sidisi, Undead Vizier but I'm not 100% certain quite yet if the guaranteed tutor is worth losing the draw. Another 5 mana creature helps out Birthing Pod, but eh... I'm on the fence. Maybe I'll drop someone else like Jens who might be a TINY bit redundant. Plenty more testing to be done. I'm also open to suggestions, so if people want to throw more cards I should be playing at me I am all for it.
I'm not gonna reopen the doors to making this a primer... but I'll answer questions via message or via comments on occasion. Magic is doing it for me right now (along with BattleCON; anyone else in this community try that game? it's amazing) and I'll ride the (very expensive) wave as long as it holds my interest. Cheers y'all.
EDIT:
So I had some time to look at more stuff, and now I wanna see if I can make room for Ashen Rider, Reclamation Sage, and Recruiter of the Guard because they all seem excellent. Ashen Rider just seems like insane advantage at the top end of the spectrum (and a 5/5 flier is nothing to sneeze at either), Reclamation Sage is a powerful removal tool in creature form that can be reused over and over (via Reveillark AND Sun Titan, my favorite) which also wears Skullclamp like a SkullCHAMP (I'm sorry), and Recruiter of the Guard can tutor for 19 of our guys including ramp and removal and general utility. Might want Abzan Charm in there too, potentially. But it might not be good enough.
Seems pretty good to me, what would you guys suggest cutting? I've been out of this so I'm kinda rusty, but I'm considering dropping Mortify and Putrefy for the two new weenies, but I don't know what to cut for Ashen Rider. I want to run Sidisi, Undead Vizier also but I have no idea what cuts to make there either. HALP. Please and thank you.
Hi guys, im new in this forum, i love Karador, he is my first and main commander, recently i made a lot of changes, and was hopping to get your feedback, sugestions or critics, i dont play alot of competitive, but i try to set up a good kitchen tablew multiplayer at least once a week, most of the time i play against animar, grisselbrand, talrand and omnath. anyway thx for the help!!!!
I tried to fill the void you left behind, but yeah RL got in the way and stuff. Anyways take a look at my list for a more up to date version. Don't think I've added in any of my additions from EDM or since, but hey its more updated than this.
One of my favorite toys out of the latest sets has been Matter Reshaper. Totally abusable in our list to give us either a ton of cards or a ton of board presence.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer has been the first planeswalker to make it into my list, but if she didn't start as a creature there'd be no way she would had gotten in there. Can't tell you how easy it is to protect her and just beat in with worms for the win.
Don't think I'd cut Agent for Sidisi, I'd look elsewhere. A one time use of Greater Good is still really amazing.
Instead of using Rec Sage I opted for Leonin Relic-Warder for those chances at perma-exiling and generating value.
Call the Bloodline has been very useful to me, doing what Bitterblossom wanted to do but doing even more by dropping ANY card into my yard for me to mess around with. And of course it makes clampable tokens!
Tireless Tracker has made its way into my list just because he gives me some good options for either a decently sized beater or extra gas.
Westvale Abbey is great for a late game threat that can you can eke out and just destroy people with.
Mirrorpool is a bit awkward, but I love that it can be abused with Sun Titan for some lulz.
i had Disciple and Sidisi for a long time but i took bith of them a while, its not bc they are bad cards, but there are better cards for those slots. Ashen Rider is an MVP in my deck, he has a spot since the eraly versions and and never hit the maybeboard of my deck, hes even better with saffi in game. Reclamation is a really good card, but imo caustic caterpillar is way better, and cheaper. Recruiter is a most, he gets 90% of our deck, includong all the hate cards and most of the combo cards, if u have it, givr him a spot, your not going to regret it. Regarding removal i had Mortify and Putrefy (and unmake) in my deck, but switch them for abrupt decay and anguished unmaking. i dont like to use abzan charm, i think the 3 mana spot has way better options in creatures, i really dont see it like a good option. Also you should try Cataclysmic Gearhulk, that card was made for this deck
Matter Reshaper has been in my mind for a lot of time, but i have a problem, i dont have many lands that add colorless, that why i havent tried in my 99, im gonna take ur advice and give him a try.
Nissa is really good, same exp as you, been a creature makes her really good and been able to reanimate her in late game is just great, as a PW she gaves a lot of gas, another must for this deck
i like rec sage and leonin relic, but i think that cautic caterpillar and fiend hunter are better, way better.
if u have SOTF i think evlutionary leap is a little redundant
I dont see the need of using Call the Bloodline, i use carrion feeder and Viscera Seer, with blood artist. wich is basiclky the same thing but with creatures and without paying mana for activation.
Tireless tracker and westvale are good, but not good enough, the fisrt one couse it depends on making land drops and having mana to draw, and westvale is just to expesive, why pay 5 mana to make a token with no extra abilities if u can spen that 5 mana and win the game.
Mirropool is sick, sicen u can copy tons of comes into play or leave the game, like academy rector or just copy titan/karmic and return tons of permanent
Matter Reshaper has been in my mind for a lot of time, but i have a problem, i dont have many lands that add colorless, that why i havent tried in my 99, im gonna take ur advice and give him a try.
Nissa is really good, same exp as you, been a creature makes her really good and been able to reanimate her in late game is just great, as a PW she gaves a lot of gas, another must for this deck
i like rec sage and leonin relic, but i think that cautic caterpillar and fiend hunter are better, way better.
if u have SOTF i think evlutionary leap is a little redundant
I dont see the need of using Call the Bloodline, i use carrion feeder and Viscera Seer, with blood artist. wich is basiclky the same thing but with creatures and without paying mana for activation.
Tireless tracker and westvale are good, but not good enough, the fisrt one couse it depends on making land drops and having mana to draw, and westvale is just to expesive, why pay 5 mana to make a token with no extra abilities if u can spen that 5 mana and win the game.
Mirropool is sick, sicen u can copy tons of comes into play or leave the game, like academy rector or just copy titan/karmic and return tons of permanent
Evolutionary Leap is a sac mechanic that allows you to get another creature. Offing what has already been used and is no longer needed is actually quite a powerful ability. Got random tokens lying around? Turn it into a guy. Rec Sage just sitting there? Turn him into something else.
Call the Bloodline is um...well nothing like those cards you mentioned at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. The ability to pitch anything to our yard for shenanigans is highly useful. It's almost like Zombie Infestation except without the awkwardness of having to pitch two cards.
Tireless Tracker not good? What world are you living in? 3cmc guy that gives you extra draw options? And can become a decent beater? Dependent on hitting lands? You mean the thing you're naturally going to do anyways and don't have to spend extra resources? Something you do just by playing the game?
Westvale Abbey is just a win condition tacked onto a land. I rarely ever use it for anything other than mana, but I always have the option of turning it into a huge demon threat.
But alas, take everything I've said about these with a grain of salt. My deck is built to be a control list, so it may function vastly differently from your own. As such, what works within my list may not be that good for you for many different reasons.
Forgive me for not reading through all 43 pages, but I'm interested in building Karador, and have a few questions. Would something like Bazaar of Baghdad and/or other graveyard enablers be good in this deck? Is the goal not to fill the graveyard? Maybe a payoff like Living Death? Perhaps you've tried all these options, so again forgive me for not reading through the thread, but I was just curious what you thought as I'm looking for the best way to build this deck.
Personally I don't favor this scheme because I see Meren as simply a slower and less reliable Karmic Guide / Phyrexian Delver type effect, and my Karador list was already overstuffed with such effects. Meren requires creature deaths to become better than Gravedigger, and, while she has a decent cost for her ability and body, lacks other relevant abilities. Frankly I think I'd rather spend a slot on good old Genesis. Meren is great if she is the deck's General, since you can get her back repeatedly (obviously you'd want to voltron her up with some good equipments / enchantments, like Asceticism, Darksteel Plate, and Swiftfoot Boots). But as a member of the 99, I think she's a bit on the weak side as body-plus-reanimators go.
Besides, my Karador list of old - the dedicated pure-Dredge variant - became extremely boring to play a long time ago; too many of its games ended very similarly ("if no one has a Tormod's Crypt effect this turn, I'm going off and killing everyone"). So now I'm rebuilding him as a Tribal Spirits deck focused around Kamigawa's Soulshift and Spiritcrafting abilities. It'll be lower on the raw power scale, but much higher on FUN factor - and just how often does the average EDH game get to see cards like Elder Pine of Jukai doing their thing?
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
I do not run fleshbag which I know is odd for Karador but it doesn't recur to Lark and often isnt worth the recursion from other sources. I have only been running one free sac outlet (viscera seer) for the infinite combo. Anyone running this kind of combo finisher run only one to leave room for more toolbox and just search it when needed?
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
That said, I got the itch to dig this old beast back out to play again and I fell in love all over again. Still my favorite deck to play, still pilots like a dream. Naturally I wanted to see if there was anything cool and shiny and new to try out, but after going through all the sets I missed I was not that impressed by anything I saw. Might cut Disciple of Bolas for Sidisi, Undead Vizier but I'm not 100% certain quite yet if the guaranteed tutor is worth losing the draw. Another 5 mana creature helps out Birthing Pod, but eh... I'm on the fence. Maybe I'll drop someone else like Jens who might be a TINY bit redundant. Plenty more testing to be done. I'm also open to suggestions, so if people want to throw more cards I should be playing at me I am all for it.
I'm not gonna reopen the doors to making this a primer... but I'll answer questions via message or via comments on occasion. Magic is doing it for me right now (along with BattleCON; anyone else in this community try that game? it's amazing) and I'll ride the (very expensive) wave as long as it holds my interest. Cheers y'all.
EDIT:
So I had some time to look at more stuff, and now I wanna see if I can make room for Ashen Rider, Reclamation Sage, and Recruiter of the Guard because they all seem excellent. Ashen Rider just seems like insane advantage at the top end of the spectrum (and a 5/5 flier is nothing to sneeze at either), Reclamation Sage is a powerful removal tool in creature form that can be reused over and over (via Reveillark AND Sun Titan, my favorite) which also wears Skullclamp like a SkullCHAMP (I'm sorry), and Recruiter of the Guard can tutor for 19 of our guys including ramp and removal and general utility. Might want Abzan Charm in there too, potentially. But it might not be good enough.
Seems pretty good to me, what would you guys suggest cutting? I've been out of this so I'm kinda rusty, but I'm considering dropping Mortify and Putrefy for the two new weenies, but I don't know what to cut for Ashen Rider. I want to run Sidisi, Undead Vizier also but I have no idea what cuts to make there either. HALP. Please and thank you.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
This is my deck:
1x Academy Rector
1x Acidic Slime
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Animate Dead
1x Arbor Elf
1x Ashen Rider
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Birthing Pod
1x Blood Artist
1x Boonweaver Giant
1x Buried Alive
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Caustic Caterpillar
1x Command Tower
1x Cultivate
1x Damnation
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Eternal Witness
1x Farseek
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Fleshbag Marauder
6x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Greater Good
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Grim Haruspex
1x Hermit Druid
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Kami of False Hope
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kor Haven
1x Life from the Loam
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Living Death
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mindslicer
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Pattern of Rebirth
1x Phyrexian Tower
3x Plains
1x Reanimate
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reveillark
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Shriekmaw
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spore Frog
1x Strip Mine
1x Sun Titan
1x Sungrass Prairie
1x Sunpetal Grove
4x Swamp
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
1x Temple Garden
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Unburial Rites
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vindicate
1x Viscera Seer
1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1x Wall of Roots
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wood Elves
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
KARADOR FTWWHitEBlaCkGREEn
I tried to fill the void you left behind, but yeah RL got in the way and stuff. Anyways take a look at my list for a more up to date version. Don't think I've added in any of my additions from EDM or since, but hey its more updated than this.
One of my favorite toys out of the latest sets has been Matter Reshaper. Totally abusable in our list to give us either a ton of cards or a ton of board presence.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer has been the first planeswalker to make it into my list, but if she didn't start as a creature there'd be no way she would had gotten in there. Can't tell you how easy it is to protect her and just beat in with worms for the win.
Don't think I'd cut Agent for Sidisi, I'd look elsewhere. A one time use of Greater Good is still really amazing.
Instead of using Rec Sage I opted for Leonin Relic-Warder for those chances at perma-exiling and generating value.
Evolutionary Leap may look like a weaker version of Survival of the Fittest but its still very very strong.
Vampiric Rites looks weak but its still solid.
Call the Bloodline has been very useful to me, doing what Bitterblossom wanted to do but doing even more by dropping ANY card into my yard for me to mess around with. And of course it makes clampable tokens!
Tireless Tracker has made its way into my list just because he gives me some good options for either a decently sized beater or extra gas.
Westvale Abbey is great for a late game threat that can you can eke out and just destroy people with.
Mirrorpool is a bit awkward, but I love that it can be abused with Sun Titan for some lulz.
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
KARADOR FTWWHitEBlaCkGREEn
Nissa is really good, same exp as you, been a creature makes her really good and been able to reanimate her in late game is just great, as a PW she gaves a lot of gas, another must for this deck
i like rec sage and leonin relic, but i think that cautic caterpillar and fiend hunter are better, way better.
if u have SOTF i think evlutionary leap is a little redundant
I dont see the need of using Call the Bloodline, i use carrion feeder and Viscera Seer, with blood artist. wich is basiclky the same thing but with creatures and without paying mana for activation.
Tireless tracker and westvale are good, but not good enough, the fisrt one couse it depends on making land drops and having mana to draw, and westvale is just to expesive, why pay 5 mana to make a token with no extra abilities if u can spen that 5 mana and win the game.
Mirropool is sick, sicen u can copy tons of comes into play or leave the game, like academy rector or just copy titan/karmic and return tons of permanent
KARADOR FTWWHitEBlaCkGREEn
KARADOR FTWWHitEBlaCkGREEn
Evolutionary Leap is a sac mechanic that allows you to get another creature. Offing what has already been used and is no longer needed is actually quite a powerful ability. Got random tokens lying around? Turn it into a guy. Rec Sage just sitting there? Turn him into something else.
Call the Bloodline is um...well nothing like those cards you mentioned at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. The ability to pitch anything to our yard for shenanigans is highly useful. It's almost like Zombie Infestation except without the awkwardness of having to pitch two cards.
Tireless Tracker not good? What world are you living in? 3cmc guy that gives you extra draw options? And can become a decent beater? Dependent on hitting lands? You mean the thing you're naturally going to do anyways and don't have to spend extra resources? Something you do just by playing the game?
Westvale Abbey is just a win condition tacked onto a land. I rarely ever use it for anything other than mana, but I always have the option of turning it into a huge demon threat.
But alas, take everything I've said about these with a grain of salt. My deck is built to be a control list, so it may function vastly differently from your own. As such, what works within my list may not be that good for you for many different reasons.
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG