"The conditions of the contract must be met. Death does not release you from those obligations, only we can do that. You will continue to serve."....Ghost Council of Orzhova
Thanks to Nakamura for the great banner!
Vorthos :
Under the facade of an organized religion, the Orzhov hold the economic reins of Ravnica. No matter how poor a person is, the Orzhov will benevolently offer whatever that person needs to survive. They remember who owes them, however, and every person who makes a deal with a member of this guild will have to repay that debt someday, even after death. Like some form of magical Mafia, the Orzhov use the resources taken from their debtors to finance whatever interests the Guild requires, though making sure that none of their "cattle" come to be free from their grip. .
What kind of deck is this? How does it play?
This is not a fast, fat creature beatdown deck and if you try to play it that way you'll lose horribly! It's more of a "finesse" deck. It wins by abusing etb/ltb abilities through sacrifice and recursion strategies, along with tons of synergy and lots of backbreaking little "mini-combos". Utilizing all this gives it a big advantage in long wars of attrition, and there are several ways for the deck to combo out and win out of nowhere. It's theoretically possible (with a "god hand") to lock a single player out of the game on turn 3, though I've never pulled that off.
Why Choose Ghost Council:
Because sacrificing things for profit is fun!
Having a card sitting in the command zone that acts as a reliable sac outlet is great for abusing "enters the battlefield" and "dies", or "leaves the battlefield" abilities that are so powerful in this format, and this deck does that without having to rely solely on the commander for success. As an added benefit, GCO rarely draws any aggression from other players, partly becuase he's not seen as an immediate threat on his own, and partly because he's got built-in evasion (providing you have something to sacrifice). As long as your political skills are up to par, you can usually get by "flying under the radar" until it's too late for your opponents to stop you.
Weaknesses:
Archenemy - Focused aggression from multiple opponents is extremely difficult for the deck to deal with, as we don't have a lot of defensive spells to hide behind. This is one reason why finesse, and being able to play politics well is essential to your success as a GCO pilot. If you often find yourself in this "archenemy" situation anyway, you may want to make sure you include an additional defensive package to help you out (discussed below in the optional packages section).
Graveyard Hate - Since our most valuable resource is very often our own graveyard, a meta that includes a lot of grave hate cards can give us problems. First and foremost, try to not get too many threat creatures built up in your graveyard at one time. Use the grave as a short-term place to keep a threat before re-using it. If you have the option of playing a new threat from hand or re-using a threat from the grave, it's usually best to go with the latter option. Another possibility is an additional package of graveyard protection cards (also discussed below in the optional packages section).
How to play it:
Remember, that when playing this deck, politics is paramount. Protect yourself and build your infrastructure without drawing attention to yourself, letting other aggressive players hit each other until you've got the resources to play out/re-play/abuse serious threats and/or combos.
Try not to telegraph your plays. For example, if you've got a combo ready to go with Nim Deathmantle and a threat creature in hand, don't play out the Deathmantle and hope it survives a turn so you can combo out, wait until you can do it all at once, or you have some way of recurring the Deathmantle if it gets killed (like Sun Titan or Beacon of Unrest).
Once politics are "out the window", you'll hopefully be far enough along that you can continually play out and recycle threats. Most of the mini-combos in the deck have variations using different/alternate cards, and because of heavy recursion, nothing stays dead forever, so you should be able to continually set up threatening boardstates in the late game.
All my decks try to adhere to these guidelines:
1) Be able to win.
2) Be mostly true to a flavor and a theme.
3) Be fun to pilot or to play against and interactive.
4) Have multiple paths to victory.
5) Have lots of cool interactions and synergy.
6) Play out differently every game to keep it fun over a long time.
7) Be streamlined and fast to play without excessive upkeep, time-consuming play or overcomplicated boardstates.
8) Integrate the Commanders abilities into the strategy at least a little, but be able to win without ever playing the commander.
Orzhov was my first serious attempt at an EDH deck (I think it was 2008? I'm old and my memory is shot).
It started out as a Teysa, Orzhov Scion build using lots of tokens. Ghost Council was in the deck as one of the 99. After swapping out the two commanders a couple times, it became clear that GCO had a few advantages over Teysa, primarily being a dependable sac outlet, so it became and has remained GCO ever since. The deck has gone through numerous direction changes over the years, from tokens, to pure combo, bleeder, and everything in between.
. Check Your Package! Taking the deck in your own direction:
I love this deck, and I've been changing/tuning it for a long time, but I'll never make the claim that I have the best possible list, nor do I even believe such a thing even exists. When I tweak the deck, it's to my specific meta and my own tastes, or because I just want to try out a cool new card or slightly different direction. I like to win, but I like to have fun even more. The deck is so versatile, I encourage everyone to take it in their own direction, especially if you report back here on any cool stuff you come across!
Some Possibilities that I've used:
Combo Heavy:
Probably the most competitive route, up the tutor count as far as you're comfortable with and put all the possible combo pieces in there. See the combos/tips/tricks section after the decklist for all the possible combo packages.
There's "Lark/Guide", "Titan/Renewal", "Insta-Bleed", and a few others. Be sure to have Academy Rector in the build if you're combo focused, and Bitter Ordeal helps to kill the table after a Titan or Lark Loop.
Defensive Package:
If you often find yourself on the wrong end of an aggressive streak by multiple players, you may want to include a package of cards designed to hold off and/or discourage attacks while you build your board or set up a combo.
Possibilities include.....
Rattlesnakes:
False Prophet (great rattlesnake, and easily recurrable for multiple uses)
No Mercy (decent rattlesnake that can be fetched instantly with Academy Rector)
Equipment Package:
If you like for your critters to be armed with equipment, we have some really good options there. And don't forget, two of our "auto-include" cards are already equipments, Nim Deathmantle and Skullclamp, with some support coming from Enlightened Tutor, Buried Ruin, and Argivian Find.
Spirit Tribal:
Some minor tweaks can keep the basic function of the deck while going in a more flavorful, tribal direction with it. Some great spirits or related cards would be: Cavern of Souls - Naming "spirit" makes it an auto-include:
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Karmic Guide
Yosei, the Morning Star
Bloodghast is also a spirit and should be in there anyway.
Myojin of Night's Reach
Belfry Spirit
Angel of Flight Alabaster
Eternal Dragon
Iname, Death Aspect
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Graveyard Protection Package:
If your meta is full of grave hate cards, a few of these may be well worth a card slot.
Lowering the Power Level and Adding More Fun for Everyone:
If you're playgroup isn't very competitive and you want to focus on everyone having more fun there are some good options. Start by taking out cards and combos that casual players hate (Sorin, Yosei, Corpse Dance, Blasting Station, and maybe Nim Deathmantle and Academy Rector) and put in some cards that have interesting but less powerful interactions. For this approach, you'll probably want to steer clear of the Stax and Discard packages.
Some of my favorite multiplayer cards that are strictly for fun are: Abyssal Persecutor - Not a bad beater on his own, he can add some really interesting politics to the game. Necrotic Plague - Everybody share the love, and the disease. Curse of the Cabal - When suspended it starts a kind of game of "chicken". Treacherous Urge - Hit/miss card, but can be great at times and is always unexpected Kor Dirge - Fun combat trick nobody ever sees coming. Pain's Reward - Who wants the cards the most? Enslave - Because beating someone over the head with their own creature and making them pay life for it is... well, fun. Withering Boon - Nobody expects a hard creature counter in B/W. Imp's Mishchief - Very useful card, I wouldn't call using it "lowering" the power level by much. It's fun if somewhat limited in use.
A fun, and fairly competitive version of any Orzhov build is completely manageable on a budget. I've created several decklists that weigh in at under $100 and even managed to get one under $60.
A full description of how to do it, as well as a sample $66 decklist is available HERE.
. My Current Decklist:
Approx:
Deckstats Value = $394
Average CMC = 3.44
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16 Oct 2011 - Praetors Grasp out, Buried Alive in. PG is a strong card, but I hate going through others libraries, and Buried Alive will give me more combo power or get me a ghast in the yard to get the clamp engine going.
28 Nov 2011 - Imp's Mischief out, Entomb in. Thinking maybe I should drop a tutor instead of Imps.
. Individual Card Choices by Function with Alternatives:
Please keep in mind, when I classify a card as one of "the best" (or not), it's only my opinion that takes into account my own preferred style of play and my meta. I would never pretend to be the high authority on card choices for everyone, just for myself.
Optional Grave Pact Package:
I ran this package in the deck for a LONG time, and just recently decided to remove it for other things. It's great for card draw and board control, and gets stronger the more "token-oriented" your build is.
The idea is to be constantly producing and sacrificing creatures and profiting from that.
The Best:
Bloodghast - Comes back for free every time you play a land. Bitterblossom - Flying, chump blocking, sac fodder every turn. Well worth the cost. Butcher of Malakir - Another Grave Pact on a flying beatstick. Grave Pact - Great board control. Knight-Captain of Eos - Good defensive card anyway, becomes nearly an auto include if you're running this package. Reassembling Skeleton - Small cost to recur sac fodder. Skullclamp - Amazing card draw, I run this card even without the rest of the package.
Other Quality Options:
Brood of Cockroaches - Not stellar, but still decent. Martyr's Bond - The white Grave Pact. Nether Traitor - Decent self-recurring creature, gets a lot better if you have powerful equipment in the deck as he has shadow. Stoneforge Mystic - Great way to tutor up Skullclamp or Nim Deathmantle. Gets better if you're running any swords or other powerful equipments.
Exquisite Blood, while powerful in it's own right, outright kills the table with either Sanguine Bond or Vizkopa Guildmage (2nd ability activated) and any source of lifegain, which we have many options for, including our beloved commander.
Ashnod's Altar - The gold standard for this deck. Repeats infinitely and adds mana every time you use it, enabling ramp and infi-mana kills with Exsanguinate, Debt of the Deathless and Profane Command. Recurs with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Especially useful for recurring creatures multiple times with buying back Corpse Dance. Blasting Station - The "tap/untap" makes you have to manipulate the stack, often requiring a lot more planning/thought, but it's a quality sac outlet that kills the table with any infinite creature etb/ltb loop, such as Reveillark + Karmic Guide, or Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal. Ghost Council of Orzhova - Don't forget that the most reliable sac outlet is sitting in the command zone! He doesn't go infinite, but he's there when you need him. High Market - The other sac outlet on a land. Not as good as the Tower, but still a "must have" in a deck like this. Martyr's Cause - Unusual option in that it's an enchantment, but still very good. If necessary, you can fetch it with Academy Rector. Phyrexian Tower - Not repeatable, but it's a land, which is great! It works very well for mana-ramping with evergreen creatures like Bloodghast and Reassembling Skeleton. Spawning Pit - Another very good option that gives you additional sac fodder in return. Viscera Seer - He doesn't kill the table, but scry does have value, and if it's in an infi-loop, it basically says "tutor any card to the top of library and win". Being very easily recurable is a big bonus. Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Nice option as he's VERY recurable, decent beater, and gets infi-big with etb/ltb loops.
Other Quality Options:
Altar of Dementia - Can infi-mill kill the table, but that's not as good as it used to be since an Eldrazi creature (that gets shuffled in on dying) spoils the plan. Carrion Feeder - Another very recurable sac outlet on a body to abuse, he can also get infi-big and kill someone after an etb loop. Dimir House Guard - He doesn't add any value to the sacrifices, but he's still a repeatable sac outlet on a body that can be further abused with Skullclamp, Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir, GCO, etc. He's "Larkable" and if you don't need the sac outlet, he's a good transumte tutor for Damnation or Wrath of God. Disciple of Bolas - Interesting option. Can't sac anything instantly or repeatedly, but he draws you cards and is Larkable. Phyrexian Altar - Quality outlet that can infi-mana with an etb loop, or provide ramp with sac fodder.
Tutors:
The Best:
Academy Rector - A good rattlesnake, he's instant speed fetching and "play for free" of Debtors' Knell or any other enchantment you might need as long as you have a sac outlet. Amazing card. Demonic Tutor - The gold standard of tutors. It's a sorcery, but it's cheap to cast and fetches anything to hand without revealing it. Enlightened Tutor - Cheap and Instant! Card goes to top of library rather than hand, but that's ok here. Best played at the end of your opponents turn. Entomb - Another great card. When all you need to win the game is a card like Yosei, the Morning Star or Karmic Guide in the gravyard, this card does it instantly. Expedition Map - Limited in that it can only fetch a land, it's still great. It comes down early, nobody messes with it, it ensures a land drop and gets you a sac outlet land or mana-fixer. Rune-Scarred Demon - This guy is amazing in here. It's fairly easy to end up fetching multiple cards in a single turn by looping him. Being a 6/6, flying beater is gravy. Vampiric Tutor - Any card to top of library at instant speed for B. Yes!
Angelic Renewal - Combos for a loop with Sun Titan. Beacon of Unrest - Solid way to get back a bomb creature or important artifact from your graveyard or someone elses. Shuffles back in to be used again. Buried Ruin - Need an artifact back to combo out? Here ya go. Corpse Dance - With buyback, it's probably the most broken card in the deck. Instant speed recursion of any creature. Avoid having to remove the creature at eot by saccing it. Using Ashnod's Altar as a sac outlet, you can often cast Corpse Dance several times in a turn doing massive harm with cards like Angel of Serenity, Yosei, the Morning Star, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Fleshbag Marauder, many more. Debtors' Knell - Good, every-turn recursion but high mana cost, it gets much better when Academy Rector puts it directly into play at your opponents eot. Solid component for a "Triangle Choke". Karmic Guide - Easily one of the best recursion creatures. She infi-combos with Lark and even puts herself in the graveyard if you don't want to pay the echo cost. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - Helps all the etb/ltb baddies come back for further abuse, combos with persist creatures (puppeteer clique), and has value as a rattlesnake. Necromancy - Solid, instant, cheap recursion, becomes near broken with Sun Titan. Nim Deathmantle - Got a sac outlet? Got Deathmantle? Then you have tons of mini-combos ready to go. If the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar, then you can likely repeat the combo several times in a turn. Abuses the etb/ltb of your creatures and easily recurs with Titan, Beacon, Yawgwin. Profane Command - Versatility is big in EDH, and this card has it. Removal, Recursion, Alpha Strike, and Life Drain/Finisher all in one card. It also combos with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed to use it every turn. Puppeteer Clique - Recurs other peoples creatures to be used as you see fit, doubles as very good "graveyard hate", and infi-loop combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to repeat as many times as you want. Using that combo you can steal all creatures from all opps graveyards and hasty alpha strike with them, or sac them all to Ashnod's Altar for a big, nasty Profane Command or Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless. Reveillark - So pretty, and so deadly. Has evoke, so doesn't even need a sac outlet to recur two creatures to the battlefield. Infi-combos with Guide. Sheoldred, Whispering One - My favorite "triangle choke" piece, she's generally a bomb that has to be dealt with any time she hits the board. Removal and recursion in one that can be recurred herself. Not a bad beater in her own right, since she has swampwalk. Sun Titan - Don't play the deck without him! He recurs sac lands, fetch lands, sac outlets, mana rocks, and more. Infi-loops with Angelic Renewal. Volrath's Stronghold - Not the best option for recursion, but works in a pinch and is a mana producing land, so why not run it. Can also protect a key creature from graveyard removal. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - Self-saccing recursion. He doesn't come back with Lark or Titan, but he brings back lots of spells we need to hand. Being able to recur non-creature cards is big. He also mini-combos with Profane Command. Use the command to finish off a player or as removal/whatever, play and sac Xiahou, get profane back to hand, next turn play profane again to finish off another player/whatever and get Xiahou back in the process, repeat. Another plus for Xiahou is that "horsemanship" make him practically unblockable, so if you're running powerful equipments, he gets more valuable. Yawgmoth's Will - Nicknamed "Yawgs Win" for a reason. Lets you play any card from your graveyard, even a land card. Coffin Queen - Versatile card that recurs opponents creatures or your own, just make sure to have a sac outlet ready so you don't have to exile it. She's easily recurrable with Lark or Titan.
Other Quality Options:
Animate Dead - Less effective, but still useful version of Necromancy. Argivian Find - Limited to artifacts and enchantments, but we often need it to get back combo pieces. Dread Return - Decent option that works as a sac outlet when flashed back, it's much more at home in a token heavy build. Emeria, the Sky Ruin - If you're running lots of non-basic lands, then leave this one out, but if you're on a budget and using lots of basics, this land is amazing in here. Be sure to include Expedition Map to fetch it, and recur it with Petrified Field, Sun Titan, Grim Discovery, Yawmoth's Will. Grim Discovery - Good option if you are running Emeria, the Sky Ruin and/or lots of fetch lands. Mimic Vat - Staple EDH powerhouse for abusing etb/ltb abilities. Pull from Eternity - If you often find your Yosei, Kokusho, or other bomb gets exiled, this is your answer. Reanimate - Solid card that casts for cheap, but better in a 1v1 deck for early game combos. Unburial Rites - Decent budget option with flashback. Undying Evil - Handy, instant recursion to keep in hand for when it's needed most, for the low cost of B Reya Dawnbringer - Expensive to cast and easy to kill, she's not a top choice, but she is an option I thought I'd mention. She's just very outclassed by Sheoldred.
ETB/LTB Creatures:
Here's the good stuff. These creatures are the "meat and bones" of the deck that you abuse repeatedly to win the game.
The Best:
Angel of Despair - Vindicate on a flying, repeatable beatstick! Loop her multiple times to cripple your opponents. Angel of Serenity - Total BEAST!! You can let her hit the field to temporarily remove threats, or eventually return etb/ltb baddies to your hand. But her real power is in saccing her while her etb ability is still on the stack, that way, her ltb ability resolves first (doing nothing), then her etb ability resolves, removing up to 3 target creatures from the game forever. Solid graveyard hate using this strategy as well. Archon of Justice - Smaller, cheaper version of Angel of Despair that requires dying to use its ability, it is still just as deadly when repeatedly sacced and recurred. Added benefit is exiling permanents rather than destroying them, and makes a good rattlesnake. Fleshbag Marauder - Small, but still useful effect, this fat little dude can ravage a board when looped. Kokusho, the Evening Star - Brother to Yosei, he doesn't lock down the table, but in a loop, he can easily kill them all. Even just looped twice with 3 other players will do 10 damage to all opps and gain you 30 life. Just be prepared to finish them off after doing that, because you will be group enemy number one. Wurmcoil Engine - Nice lifelinking, deathtouching beater that leaves behind very good tokens, he has lots of value when recurred often. Wurmcoil, or any creature that brings along 2 or more tokens (Grave Titan, Knight-Captain of Eos) plus Ashnod's Altar and Nim Deathmantle, gets you infinite tokens and infinite mana, all at the same time. See combo section for full details. Yosei, the Morning Star - Crazy good dragon. Great rattlesnake, when looped enough times, he "soft-locks" or "Yosei Locks" the entire table. You will often only have enough mana to loop him a couple times in a turn, so make sure you can finish off what you started, as other players who aren't locked out will almost certainly go aggro on you.
Other Quality Options:
Fiend Hunter - A miniature version of Angel of Serenity, you can abuse the etb/ltb trigger in the same way. Grave Titan - Another infinite token and mana combo piece, he's not on my first team anymore, but he's very much worth a slot in a token heavy build. Knight-Captain of Eos - Very good defensive card and sac fodder generator, can combo (like Wurmcoil Engine) for infinite tokens and mana. Mangara of Corondor - A slower version of Fiend Hunter, you can put his ability on the stack, then sac him, avoiding having to remove him from the game, so you can now re-use him many times with things like Corpse Dance. Necrotic Sliver - I don't like his activation cost, but he can be very good and recurs with Lark or Titan.
Card Draw:
The Best:
Necropotence - I don't personally use the card, but many swear by it. It is extremely powerful. Phyrexian Arena - Staple draw for any deck running black. Well worth the life cost. Promise of Power - Gets you 5 cards and/or a beater token/sac fodder. Skullclamp - Amazing draw that recurs with Titan. Gets better the more token producers you have in the deck. Solemn Simulacrum - Too good not to run. Draw and ramp in one on a body to abuse. Syphon Mind - Good option with 3 other players at the table. Wall of Omens - Early defense and repeatable draw.
Other Quality Options:
Ambition's Cost - Decent, generic, black draw. Bloodgift Demon - Not bad if you're looking for more draw, but we've got better. Disciple of Bolas - Interesting option that can normally get you some really good draw and doubles as a sorcery speed sac outlet. Graveborn Muse - Lesser version of Bloodgift Demon. Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper- Budget options.
Spot Removal (not attached to a creature):
Obviously, this deck uses a LOT of removal attached to creatures (187 effects), but it's always good to have some Instant and Sorcery based removal around.
The Best:
Mortify - Versatile, intant, and cheap. Oblation - Solid removal and tuck. Swords to Plowshares - Quick, cheap, effective. Vindicate - Staple BW, sorcery speed, kill almost anything spell.
Other Quality Options:
Aura of Silence - Decent removal that gets recurred by Sun Titan. Condemn - Great against voltron commanders, decent otherwise. Eyeblight's Ending - Generic but good Faith's Fetters - Very versatile as it can shut down Planeswalkers and Utility Lands. Path to Exile - Good, but I don't like giving my opponent a land. Rend Flesh - Another quality generic killer
Sweepers:
Always good to have a few of these around. I prefer sweepers that put creatures in the graveyard rather than exiling or tucking everything, but those are still viable options as long as you can keep a sac outlet in play.
The Best:
Austere Command - Best of the best here. Amazing versatility with this selective sweeper. Black Sun's Zenith - I like this sweeper for its ability to leave an opposing voltron commander at 1 power and basically useless instead of killing him to just be recast again next turn. Catastrophe - Good versatility. If you've got superior board position (enough to win the game), nuke all lands and go for it. Damnation and Wrath of God - Being fetchable with Dimir House Guard give them a little more value. False Prophet - Interesting option that's easily re-useable, the "exile" part still makes me leary. Terminus - Especially good for tucking problem commanders. Rout - Nice added flexibility of casting as an instant. Decree of Pain - High costed, but amazing draw power. Cycling is always a nice added option.
Other Quality Options:
Day of Judgment - Slightly lesser version of Wrath Hallowed Burial - There's that pesky "not to graveyard" sweep again. Still a solid card and helps dispose of problem commanders. Oblivion Stone - I don't like that it kills off so much of my own stuff, but some players swear by it.
Merciless Eviction - Versatile exile. Can be good, but still wary of exiling my own stuff.
Graveyard Hate:
I don't like to run dedicated grave hate cards. If you don't need it, it's a dead card in your hand, so if you need some, try to get it on a card that can do other things too.The Best:
Puppeteer Clique - Adds theft and a body to abuse repeatedly. Angel of Serenity - Functions as grave hate if you sac her before her etb ability resolves. Nezumi Graverobber - Hates any card out of a grave, not just creatures. Recurrable clamp target, pact trigger, and can become a serious recursion threat on his own. Coffin Queen - Fun card that gives you lots of options. She's grave hate with theft and recurs our own creatures too, just make sure you have a sac outlet handy so you don't have to exile them.
Other Quality Options:
Nihil Spellbomb - It can get you a card and be re-used with Sun Titan. Withered Wretch - Good hate with a body to abuse. Stonecloaker - Good hate with the ability to just bounce himself back to hand and be re-used, or bounce one of your fatties back to hand in response to a wrath or just to abuse it's etb ability again.
Miscellaneous Cards:
Cards not covered in other sections for whatever reason.
The Best:
Vizkopa Guildmage - Easily recurrable and VERY powerful if you're running lots of lifegain. Mini-combos with Kokusho, the Evening Star and kills the table with Exquisite Blood plus any source of lifegain (which she can give to any creature).
Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless - Late game bomb can easily win you the game. Knight of the White Orchid - Solid choice for mana help/ramp. Kor Cartographer - Another good ramp card if you need it. He's not as good as green ramping creatures, but we have limited options. Stinkweed Imp - Good defensive creature that recurs himself to hand while dumping reanimation targets into the graveyard. Trading Post - I don't know if there is a card more versatile than this one. Sac Fodder, Creature Dumping, Card Draw, Lifegain, Sac Outlet, Artifact Recursion.... Ok, I'm sold.
Other Quality Options:
Imp's Mischief - Interesting card that has saved my butt on occasion. Tithe - Helps to ensure land drops. Eternal Dragon - A possibility for helping with land drops along with a body to repeatedly abuse.
Cabal Coffers: Cabal Coffers is a VERY powerful land and wins games in a mono-black deck. In a multi-color deck, even just two-color, it will hold you back far more than it will help, and it loses games. You have to have Coffers plus 4 swamps in play to see any profit from it not just being a basic land. And once it's active, if you run many non-swamp lands at all, it's power is greatly diminished. If it's not active, it's a completely dead land, sitting on the field doing nothing but hurting you. It can severely hinder tempo/early game development. I've lost several games because of an inactive coffers. Yes, Urborg makes everthing a swamp, the two of them are great together, but you can nowhere near count on drawing them both, even with tutors, nor can you count on the other players not giggling when they Strip Mine Urborg to leave you with an inactive coffers again. The only multi-color decks that can effectively use coffers must have green in them. With green you can tutor them both up and instantly have it online with something like Primeval Titan, or tutor for more needed basic swamps, but even in the case of green, I'm still shy of the card for hampering early game development.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin: Emeria, the Sky Ruin - Not as bad as Coffers since it can always tap for mana, It's truly powerful, but if you run it, you need to keep non-plains cards as low as you can get away with to make sure it can go active. In this deck, and in consideration of my meta, I've decided to forego Emeria for a strong suite of utility lands.
Crypt of Agadeem: Crypt of Agadeem - There are never enough creatures in my yard to justify including this.
Oblivion Ring: Oblivion Ring - I used to run this all the time, but far too often, whatever I removed with it would come back to haunt me later. It protects its target from the next sweeper to hit the board and just waits for the next enchantment removal to allow that thing to be a threat again. I started running Faith's Fetters in its place and have been much happier. Fetters cost 1 more, and is still a temporary fix, but it stops most everything that O-ring stops, doesn't protect its target from sweepers, and also shuts down troublesome utility lands like Maze of Ith. The 4 life is a nice little bonus that may seem insignificant in edh, but I'm always surprised how often games come down to just a couple life points.
A Note About Ghost Councils Ability:
GCO reads - 1, Sacrifice a creature: Exile Ghost Council of Orzhova. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Keep in mind that if you exile GCO at the end of a turn, he will not return to play until the next end of turn trigger.
------------------------- . The Triangle Choke:
One of the strategies of the deck is to set up an ongoing sac/recursion engine with one of it's etb/ltb baddies to win a war of attrition. This isn't a fast "insta-win" combo, but a slow-grinding down of your opponents turn after turn, and since the pieces are interchangeable with so many alternatives, it's hard to not have a triangle choke set up at least once or twice during a game. With only one opponent remaining (due to late game or a 1v1 match), a good triangle choke is pretty much game over.
The choke can be applied easily with one card in each of 3 categories (hence, "triangle"), they are all somewhat interchangeable, and become even stronger with Grave Pact, Martyr's Bond, or Butcher of Malakir in play. Of course, Skullclamp helps get some extra profit from this too.
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------------------------ . The Yosei Lock: Yosei, the Morning Star offers several ways to effectively lock out a single player rather easily, and he can even lock out a whole table with enough mana available.
Here are several ways you can accomplish it:
Yosei + any sac outlet + Sheoldred, Whispering One or Debtors' Knell = Lock out a single player every turn. Mimic Vat - Sac him, tap down player, imprint him on the vat, repeat every turn. The token still works like the real Yosei.
Mimic Vat with Karmic Guide imprinted or Reveillark imprinted and Karmic in the gy will do the same.
Nim Deathmantle - Sac him, tap down player and pay 4 to return him to play. Repeat next turn. 8 locks out two players, 12 locks out 3 players, etc. If your sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you can lock out 3 other players with just 8 mana.
Corpse Dance -Sac Yosei, the Morning Star, tap player down, Corpse Dance with buyback repeat. If you can produce 9 mana and have Ashnods out, you can lock out 3 players for one turn. 11 mana locks out 3 players for good.
----------------------- . Using Corpse Dance:
Corpse Dance is a one card recursion engine if you've got a sac outlet in place and enough mana for the buyback cost. Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Tower as the sac outlet make playing it multiple times in a turn very doable.
As an added bonus, Corpse Dance is an "Instant" rather than "Sorcery" like most recursion, so it can reanimate an emergency blocker or in response to graveyard hate to save a creature you don't want to lose forever (then sac it back after hate resolves).
Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Continuing Sac Outlet = An infinite loop of Lark and Guide entering/leaving the battlefield. The third piece of the combo can have varying effects:
You can also follow the 1,000 Lark/Guide recursions with a Bitter Ordeal and exile everyones library.
If you're not familiar with how the Lark/Guide combo works, I'll explain it here as best I can:
Here is how you manage an ifinite loop of Karmic Guide and Reveillark with Blasting Station as your sac outlet (henceforth known as Guide, Lark, and BS), by manipulating the stack.
With Guide in the graveyard, doesn't matter how she got there, she self sacs if you don't pay her echo.
You BS sac (or evoke) Lark, which returns Guide to play. When Guide comes into play, 2 triggers happen...
Trigger 1 = Return Lark to play
Trigger 2 = Untap BS
You control both triggers, so you get to decide what order they go on the stack. Stack them just like that.
Trigger 2 comes off the stack first and untaps BS. With Trigger 1 still on the stack, BS sac Guide. Now let Trigger 1 resolve and Lark comes into play untapping BS again.
That puts you back where you started. With Guide in the gy, Lark in play, and an untapped Blasting Station (and an opponent -2 life).
You can also do it with Lark in the graveyard and Guide in hand. You'll figure it out.
Vizkopa Guildmage has a few powerful but non-infinite combos that can be extremely powerful. Many people don't realize that her second ability can be used multiple times for some devastating blows.
Her second ability with multiple activations and a Kokusho, the Evening Star being sacrificed, or a big Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless can easily end or completely turn a game around.
She has great, natural synergy with any lifelinker/life gaining cards like:
Angel of Serenity is an extremely powerful and versatile card when used properly.
If you need cards from your graveyard or from play back to your hand in order to abuse their etb/ltb abilities, let her resolve then sac her off, giving you those cards back in hand. That's easy.
But
If you need to kill opposing creatures or to exile cards in someones graveyard forever, here's how it's done:
Play her, her etb ability (exile 3) goes on the stack. In response, sac her to whatever. Her ltb ability (return the 3 to hand) will now resolve first, and since you haven't exiled the 3 to start with, it fizzles. Now her etb ability resolves and exiles the 3 creatures forever.
Angel of Serenity + Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle = Sac Angel to Altar (putting two mana in pool), pay two more to bring her back with Deathmantle, sac her again before her etb ability resolves, it resolves, remove 3 opponent creatures from play or graveyard, repeat until all threats are gone. You may want to use her final entrance onto the battlefield to exile and eventually recur some of your own stuff.
This mini-combo can also be used with Corpse Dance instead of Deathmantle, but it takes a little more mana.
--------------------- . Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar Mini-combo:
Here's how it works with Knight-Captain of Eos:
KC in play with the 2 tokens he brought. Sac the two tokens to Ashnods which puts 4 in the pool. Now sac KC himself to the altar. 6 in pool, using 4 of it to bring KC back with Deathmantle. Now you're at your starting state and up 2 in the pool. Repeat for as many times as you need to kill the table with an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless.
NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT INIF-MANA: It's time to get infi-tokens.
Just sac off KC and one token instead of both tokens, and use the 4 mana that generates to return KC to play on the Deathmantle. Now you're even on mana and +1 token. Repeat.
There's also a cool trick with this combo and Persist Creatures. See the Puppeteer Clique trick below.
Deathmantle + Ummmm + ANYTHING!:
Just having Deathmantle and a sac outlet out makes abusing etb/ltb abilities so cheap and easy it's crazy. Archon of Justice or Angel of Despair with 8 mana on board = Destroy any 2 target permanents. If the sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you get to kill 4 permanents. How many turns can someone hold up losing 2 to 4 target perms each time?
Karmic Guide + Nim Deathmantle: Karmic Guide + Nim Deathmantle - KG kills itself every upkeep, pay 4, get KG and another creature back every upkeep.
--------------------------
.. Sun Titan Renewal Combo:
Sun Titan plus Angelic Renewal plus any repeatable sac outlet gives you an infinite etb/ltb loop that you can take advantage of in several ways, or just follow up with a Bitter Ordeal and win.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter + Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal = Infinite Removal, and Infi-Big Vish swinging for max damage and lifegain. Sac Titan to Vish, bring it back with Renewal, bring Renewal back with Titan, repeat.
If your sac outlet is Blasting Station, you can kill the table with infi-damage.
If your sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you can generate infi mana for a game winning Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless/Profane Command.
Sun Titan also infi combos with Fiend Hunter and a repeatable sac outlet (see Fiend Hunter section below).
As long as you have a sac outlet and repeatable recursion, Fiend Hunter is an exile machinegun. When FH comes into play, let the first ability go on the stack. With that still on the stack, sac FH. FH will go to the graveyard to be used again, the second ability goes on the stack and fizzles, and the first abilty will resolve, exiling target creature forever. Repeat.
This kind of combo works especially well with Nim Deathmantle and Ashnod's Altar, but there are lots of other ways to abuse it, like Corpse Dance, or just doing it once per turn with recursion like Sheoldred, Whispering One.
Fiend Hunter goes infinite with Sun Titan and a repeatable sac outlet. This time, when FH comes into play, exile your Sun Titan. Let everything resolve. Sac Fiend Hunter, bringing back Sun Titan, which brings back Hunter again, repeat as many times as you want.
With Viscera Seer as a sac outlet, any infinite loop, such as Reveillark + Karmic Guide or Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal turns into "fetch any card". Since you can scry every time you use her sac ability, you can just keep scrying through your deck until you find Blasting Station, play it and use it as the sac outlet now, and kill the table.
*** Note - Since you have to draw the card you scry to the top of the library, this trick has to be done either at your upkeep (or end of opps turn), or with a draw spell in your hand if your plan is to kill the table immediately.
-------------------------- . Mangara of Corondor Trick:
Mangara of Corondor can be repeatedly used as a Vindicate as long as you have a sac outlet. You activate her ability, and with that on the stack, sac her. She goes to gy instead of being exiled, so you can now reanimate her and use her again next turn.
Mangara + Corpse Dance + Sac Outlet = Vindicating Machinegun as long as your mana holds out. If the sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, the mana goes farther.
-------------------------- . Puppeteer Clique Tricks: Puppeteer Clique + Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle = Massive hasty alpha strike with every creature from every other graveyard. Here's how it works:
Sac Clique to Altar (2 mana in pool), persist brings it back.
Sac it again (4 in pool), use the 4 mana to bring it back with deathmantle, not persist. You control both triggers so you get to stack it however you want. Now you've got clique and two opponent reanimated hasty creatures. Do that as many times as you want, swing.
Clique + Corpse Dance - You can reanimate Clique (+ another creature) with Corpse Dance and never have to remove Clique from the game. Sac him to whatever outlet, he persists and comes back (+ another creature) as a completely new creature, so Corpse Dance can't find him at eot.
Clique + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + any sac outlet - Lets you repeat Clique as many times as you want.
------------------------- . The Ghost Council/Vat Protection Trick:
If you have a creature on Mimic Vat and someone tries to kill the vat, you can lose an important creature like Yosei to the exile zone when you need him in the graveyard. A way to protect yourself from the exile is:
Killing or Sacrificing any creature in response to the "kill vat" spell. Imprint the new creature on the vat which returns your important one to your graveyard. This can also be accomplished by (Thanks to Kyusurugi):
Saccing Ghost Council to himself.
Allow him to go to the graveyard.
Imprint him on the vat.
When the vat sends him to exile, choose to place him back in the command zone.
------------------------ . Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed Shenanigans:
If you're lucky enough to own a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, he can be used in several powerful ways, again, this becomes considerably more powerful if you have a Grave Pact effect in play.
Xiahou + Nim Deathmantle or Mimic Vat or Corpse Dance = Return black card to hand every turn.
Xiahou + Profane Command = Every turn you cast Profane to drain life and recur Xiahou, then sac Xiahou to get the Profane back.
Xiahou is particularly at home in a build that includes an equipment package. With "horsemanship", he is virtually unblockable.
------------------------
. Recommended Playlist:
Don't Fear the Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult
Dead Man's Party - Oingo Boingo
Cemetery Gates - Pantera
Advanced Deck Analysis:
A little out of date, but still pretty close. I'll leave it up as an example.
I plugged it into Deckstats (had to make a few subs for cards they don't recognize) and here is what I got:
Average CMC = 3.47 (happy with that)
The color distribution to sources is pretty much spot on, and the mana curve is sexy!
Now for the craziness that I did myself (I may have miscounted something, and some of it's open to slight interperetation, but it gives a good idea of the densities).
And where something says "single-use" keep in mind everything is re-useable with Yawgmoth's Will, so there really is no such thing as only "single use". And Praetor's Grasp can become just about anything, so I didn't include it in any of the counts.
Sac Outlets:
Total - 9
One use per turn = 4
Rapid Fire = 3
Single Use = 2
Tutoring - Cards that can fetch...
Anything = 2
Utility Land = 4
Creature = 2
Enchantment = 4
Artifact = 3
Instant/Sorc = 2
Removal A: Uses 2 numbers (mostly single use/easily repeatable)
Total Mass Removal = 3/0 = 3
Untargetted Spot Removal = 3/4 = 7
Removal B: (also using the same 2 numbers) Cards that can remove....
Any permanent = 1/3 = 4
Land = 3/3 = 6
Creature = 13/8 = 21
Enchantment = 4/3 = 7
Artifact = 3/3 = 6
Planeswalker = 2/3 = 5
Indestructible Creature = 6/5 = 11
Graveyard Hate = 2
Cards that do/can ramp:
As a primary purpose = 8
As a possibility but can't count on = 2
Pump/Evasion = 6
Beaters: Obviously open to interperetation. I don't count anything with 3 or less power and no evasion. 3-4 power with evasion is "medium". 5 power with evasion is "large".
I call Archon of Justice, Ghost Council of Orzhova, and Sun Titan (no evasion) "Medium".
Medium = 4
Large = 9
Recursion: (again using single use/easily repeatable) Cards that can recur....
Land = 2/1 = 3
Creature = 5/9 = 14
Artifact = 2/1 = 3
Planeswalker = 2/0 = 2
Enchantment = 2/0 = 2
Instant/Sorc = 2/0 = 2
Draw = 5
Cards that primarily are or produce sac fodder = 4
Cards that gain me life:
Minor gains = 3
Major gains possible = 4
Cards that Drain other players life or deal direct damage:
Minor = 3
Major = 3
I guess my idea was to be a bit more defense oriented, just because I feel like that can work out good in multiplayer games. I personally am going to stay away from the infinite combos and probably replace those spots and the tutors for some walls (souls of the faultless and wall of glare come to mind first) because I really like the deterrent strategy in multiplayer. Maybe some more spot removal too. Theres definitely an overlap of a lot of the cards I was thinking of and some of your other choices give me good ideas too. I guess I'm just taking it in a bit of a different direction!
I am a little light on the sweepers for multiplayer, but I've found that with all the creatures I'm running that act as removal themselves, and as much as they get recurred, if anything, it's actually heavy on the removal side. I do play a lot of 1vs1 with the deck too, so I prefer to go a bit more on the spot side than the sweepers. I do agree about Decree of pain, Wrath, Rout, and the other sweepers you mentioned though, they are great, but I just decided to stick with the Damnation as it's got an extra tutor for it if I really need it for an answer in the form of Dimir House Guard.
I have tried several of the cards you mentioned, especially when I was running a more defensive/lifegain version. If you go that way with it I will recommend the Ghostly Prison, and No Mercy. I've used both and they worked well for that strategy. I was a little underwhelmed with Reassembling Skeleton, and since have just stuck with Bloodghast as my eternal sac fodder. Test of Endurance is also a great alt-win with all that lifegain. And you may look to some extra enchantment recursion like Argivian Find or Auramancer.
Oh, about Reya.... I used her for a long time, and hated to finally take her out, but there were just sooo many times the game was already decided before she ever hit the board, and Debtor's Knell works better than her anyway as it's harder to remove and takes creatures from anyones gravyard, not just your own. She has more merit in long multiplayer games though, so I wouldn't rule her out completely. Ever since Mimic Vat and Deathmantle were printed, she's lost some of her shine.
Build the deck, you'll be glad you did.... Ghost Council has been a GREAT general for me. It's incredibly versatile.
I'm super new to Magic, and have been working on trying to build a B/W EDH deck. I first chose Selenia as my Commander, but wasn't really happy with the results. I started searching for a better one, when I came across your post about Ghost Council! What a great deck. I am in love with it, and am currently building it, with a few extras not on your list. As for Reya, I'm gonna try it a bit and see how it goes. I agree, that she is not as good as debtor's knell though. Anyway, thanks for sharing your decklist, I can't wait to play this deck!
Also, your EDH building post was AMAZING and super helpful. Thank you for all the work you put into it. I have finally found the help I was looking for!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by the amazing RIVENOR
BRWKaalia of the VastBRW GWRMayael the AnimaGWR GWRUril the MiststalkerGWR GRThromok the InsatiableGR
This deck list and general is very inspiring!, I am interested in trying it out with some of my spares,(I got a good 60 of those cards sitting around somewhere)
So what other cards would you like to put in to optimize this edh? like a Scrubland? or Sensei's top? (for some crystal ball+ sensei top awesomeness)or Extraplanar lens (using snow swamps and snow plains instead to not help your opponents.) Cabal coffers? for some awesome mana ramp, and Sadistic Sacrament to decimate those super tech infinite combo decks (since you've already accommodated for other types recurrsion, voltron, blue decks. )
Also!, I'd like to know what cards you would be switching out for your side board ie. the sol ring, armageddon, sorin, recurring nightmare during a lets say "cutthroat" game to increase your "cruelty"
This deck list and general is very inspiring!, I am interested in trying it out with some of my spares,(I got a good 60 of those cards sitting around somewhere)
So what other cards would you like to put in to optimize this edh? like a Scrubland? or Sensei's top? (for some crystal ball+ sensei top awesomeness)or Extraplanar lens (using snow swamps and snow plains instead to not help your opponents.) Cabal coffers? for some awesome mana ramp, and Sadistic Sacrament to decimate those super tech infinite combo decks (since you've already accommodated for other types recurrsion, voltron, blue decks. )
Also!, I'd like to know what cards you would be switching out for your side board ie. the sol ring, armageddon, sorin, recurring nightmare during a lets say "cutthroat" game to increase your "cruelty"
Ty ahead of time :D:D:p
Thanks for the compliment. I have more fun with this deck than any other I've ever played.
When I use the "board":
Recurring Nightmare goes in for either Dread Return or Nim Deathmantle.
Sol Ring goes in for a basic land
Sorin and Armageddon usually only go in for 1v1 duels, I usually take out Exsanguinate (since that's so much stronger in multiplayer) and whatever other random card I feel like at the moment. Deathless Angel/Mindcensor/Wayfarer.
Optimizations that I want to put in:
Scrubland
Wastelnd
Vampiric Tutor
Off color fetchlands (polluted delta, bloodstained mire, windswept heath flooded strand, arid mesa)
and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed! I want a copy of that card SO BAD in here! I've really got my hopes up for a FTV:Legends reprint. I can't think of another card that would be so deadly in this build. If it doesn't get reprinted, I'll probably just break down and shell out the 100+ bucks.
On the cards you mentioned:
Sensei's Top - No doubt it's good, I chose to run ball instead for simplicity and to save a bit of money. I've been very satisfied with ball so far and I probably won't end up with both in there since card slots are at such a premium at this point. I certainly wouldn't doubt anyones decision to run both though.
I've tried extraplanar lens and it was nice at times, but I usually found myself wanting something else. And it is a bit of a setback if someone decides to blow it up once you've exiled a land with it. I do run it in my mono black Geth deck where I love it.
Cabl Coffers I've tried in several decks and have removed it from all but my mono black (where it's the mvp). With all the non-swamp cards in the deck there were just too many games that it sat on the field doing nothing but making me mad that it wasn't a basic land.
Sadistic Sacrament - I have mixed feelings about it, and I have run it before. Casting it early has usually been underwhelming. Casting it late pretty much says "I win" against most decks, but so does a lot of other cards. I also had some decent results with Bitter Ordeal place of it. Played after a big Damnation (at least in multiplayer) it pretty much guts a deck, and adds the flexibility of being able to take cards from multiple players decks since each copy can choose a new target. It also adds another way to kill the table with the Lark/Guide combo (though if your sac outlet for that is blasting station or altar of dementia it's not needed). I think either SadSac or Ordeal are good choices for the deck, it's mostly just personal preference that I don't run them anymore. If I manage to get a Xiahou Dun for the deck, I might have to re-evaluate both cards as they could become much more deadly with his recurring them for multiple uses.
Hmm interestingly enough, I have some of the kingdom set, I need to double check if I have Xiahou Dun, that would be extremely nice..I wonder how much Xiahou Dun would change the dynamics of this deck, the cruelty and possibilities would be endless...
Yeah I understand the feeling with the cabal coffers and extraplanar lens space is highly valued and you gotta pull your own weight. I'll be gathering the last few cards I need for the GCO line up and see how this deck work and see if I got any tweaks, keep me updated on any new idea or changes.
i've thought about B/W a ton of times. so it's nice to see it all layed out in front of me.
but i was wondering about Sorrin Markov? is he just not that great because it's a one shot to the dome for only one person? i would think that putting some one who's getting a little ahead of the group down to ten and beatting them for 10+ would be a little sobering for them.
but i was wondering about Sorrin Markov? is he just not that great because it's a one shot to the dome for only one person? i would think that putting some one who's getting a little ahead of the group down to ten and beatting them for 10+ would be a little sobering for them.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't think he's good. He's great, but I usually only bring him in for 1v1 because in multiplayer, which is usually very casual/non cutthroat where I play, I either have to listen to the "unfair" complaining, or if I do take soemone down to 10, everyone at the table immediately focuses on me. I'm not suggesting anyone not run him by any stretch.
So i just had a run through 1v1 with the deck with the teysa conversion and my group pointed out that recurssion nightmare was banned but i stated the french banned list and they very happily also pointed out that painter's servant is banned in both french and multi :'(
So i just had a run through 1v1 with the deck with the teysa conversion and my group pointed out that recurssion nightmare was banned but i stated the french banned list and they very happily also pointed out that painter's servant is banned in both french and multi :'(
Wow! Talk about knowing your way around the rules haha! I guess I better get more better at arguing the clarification of the rules :P. Btw i managed to get xiahou dun and used sadistic sacrament and Corpse dance!! Super fun shena☺☺☺☺☺ns! Do you have any suggestions? / devious ideas?
Btw i managed to get xiahou dun and used sadistic sacrament and Corpse dance!! Super fun shena☺☺☺☺☺ns! Do you have any suggestions? / devious ideas?
Sweeet. I'm jealous!
Make sure you're running Profane Command. You should be anyway, but it and Xiahou keep recurring each other ftw.
With Xiahou in the deck besides the Corpse Dance, I'd probably run an extra recursion spell or two just to make sure. Probably Reanimate/Dread Return
Xiahou + plenty of recursion makes several cards in the build go from strong to insanely powerful:
Mimic Vat and Nim Deathmantle become just silly good.
Profane Command
Vindicate
Victimize - Christ what you can do with Victimize and Xiahou!
Victimize + Xiahou +:
Angel of Despair
Archon of Justice
Twilight Shepherd
Yosei, the Morning Star
It makes me giggle.
I can't stand it anymore.... if Xiahou doesn't get reprinted in FTV Legends, I'm buying one anyway.
Oh yeah, I forgot I wanted to ask you this, so, I put some of the off color fetch lands into the deck also (polluted delta, bloodstained mire, windswept heath, flooded strand, arid mesa)
I replaced just the basic swamp and plains for the fetch lands, but then I realized, that by putting in and 5 more fetch lands and taking out 5 basics that the maximum potential of the mana pool shrinks by 5 mana with the added benefit that I could pull scrubland and godless shrine early on.
However, in a land hate game (or just a long game that has gone through too many Armageddons)that kinda detrimental in the long run. I was wondering if you hand a different substitution in mind? or would you just sub in the fetch for basic and just hope for the best?
Also for Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, I subbed him in for Deathless Angel since you've remarked that she is somewhat lackluster for this deck (although I could see something funny with her and Damnation with something like sun titan or some other ridiculous creature). And I was wondering if you had any better subs than that?
Furthermore, to address the extra recursion spells for Xiahou's Almightly presence corpse dance, Reanimate and Dread return (coincidentally I replaced Dread return for corpse dance :o) What sub ins would you do? I'm having a hard time determining which cards are less valuable than the others (Yeah, if this deck was a piece of land, the cost for a spot would probably be the equivalent of living in Hollywood or your own private island or something :-/)
In addition, for your "currently auditioning spots" I haven't subbed in geth or treacherous urge or lifeline (since this deck is soo tight and for me: "if it ain't broke don't fix it") But!!! I'm curious as to whether or not you think those who are auditioning can make the cut, and if so, how?
For the fetch lands - I can't imagine the game with so much LD that I'd rather run more basics than have the advantage of fetchlands. That said, there isn't a lot of mass LD in my meta so I don't have much to draw on there. If LD is a big problem where you play, I'd recommend Flagstones of Troikair. The only reason it's not on my list is that I don't have one yet. I would say Crucible of Worlds, but that's on both 1v1 banned lists.
With Xiahou in the deck (Just theorycrafting here), Grim Discovery might warrant a second look. It would act as not only as some extra recursion, but it also makes a loop with Xiahou to replay lands from out of the graveyard every turn to help with that LD problem. If you test that out, I'd like to know how it goes.
About subbing out Deathless Angel - As you said, real estate is at a serious premium, and I hate to cut out anything at this point. So many of the cards I just consider to be "un-cuttable". I think the possibilities are:
Deathless Angel
Aven Mindcensor
Weathered Wayfarer
Eternal Dragon
Wall of Reverence
maybe Necrotic Sliver
maybe World Queller
Geth - He's probably going to get a permanent spot. He's been doing pretty well.
Treacherous Urge - Probably not for 1v1. It's been extremely fun and useful in multiplayer though. And nobody ever sees it coming.
Lifeline - I haven't been able to play it enough yet to say really. I'm thinking it's kind of unnecessary, but I'm not sure yet.
Hmm Grim Discovery seems like a good idea! I'll be sure to test it out next time my friends meet up and I'll tell you how it goes.:link:
As for the LD, in my meta, we generally just have normal edh games, and then when we are ever feeling frisky we'll instate "Cutthroat" in which we start a game just brawling with each other as hard as possible, no politics, no ***** footing, no mercy and grudge matches are welcome. (with the exception that whatever happens in cutthroat stays in cutthroat) and so my friends will switch to their not so nice cards into their decks. Two of the generals I often face are Numot, the devastator and Scion of the Ur-Dragon (which subsequently has Numot in his deck anyways) and with cutthroat, there is probably a good 1 or 2 Armageddons or Global Ruin (for the 5 color generals with dual lands) going off per game if a player gains board control and wants to hold it.
Also not to mention that I have a friend who runs Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief for a general with Colbalt Coffers , Extraplanar lens, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and with snow covered swamps (so he only benefits from the lens) in which he is generally very happy to use Helldozer to destroy all our fancy dual lands, legendary lands, and all nonbasic lands with his extraplanar lens+cabal coffers+ urborg for 50-100(god knows how much mana sometimes) in one fell swoop when we're too busy brawling to notice. (he's kinda a the quiet sneaky type too so he gets away with it! :facepalm:)
Overall, its pretty good fun to blow off some steam and completely annihilate your entire meta for fun. Often these combos are not seen too often, but when cutthroat comes around that's when we start to see massive LD and board wipes. This is just to give you and idea of what type of LD I was theory crafting around.:teach:
So I've just giving you an update of Grim Discovery. With Xiahou Dun, its just too good to keep out, after playing a couple of rounds I've found it to be a life saver for those games that go just a little south when land and board wipes run rampant. And it helps pull ahead in 1v1, with wasteland and strip mine recurrsion. And even when there's no land in your gy, its just nice to have a recursion method. So I've decided to keep it
Also, I see you've been testing out black sun's zenith i was wondering how that was working out for you. And have you gotten a xiahou dun yet?
So after playing this deck for awhile with xiahou dun and corpse dance. I think you should consider Solemn Simulacrum, for mana acceleration and card draw. This card is soo useful, especially with the amount of recurrsion/sac going on in this deck and the possible Mimic Vat combo. In addition with the 4 mana cost, you can tutor this up with 3 ways, including dimir house guard easily, this can help with just overall deck speed.
I feel this would be a extremely strong addition although he is neither white or black, I believe speeding up this deck and strengthening it's mana base and card draw is the next best move.
Another card I would suggest after would be Crucible of Worlds this will assist with cruelty by having a crippling land destruction by recurring strip mine and destroying your opponent(s) lands. It is as easily tutor-able as mimic vat since the cost are the same.This also goes well, after Solemn Simulacrum and a late game Armageddon is cast (by your opponent or yourself). This will allow you to return your lands lost, and increase the decks resilience against all types of mass wipes.
I hope you're having fun this GCO deck, because I'm definitely enjoying it. Hope you're still reading these posts ;):p and I look forward to hearing your thoughts
I've actually thought about both Simulacrum and Crucible quite a bit but don't have either yet. Very likely they'll go in if I can trade for copies at some point.
I did put Weathered Wayfarer in/back in to help me get more land. My LGS is having a multiplayer tourney in two weeks so I'm tweaking things back to a more multiplayer focus instead of trying to be versatile mp/duels with it.
Black Sun's Zenith has been working out very well, I'd recommend giving it a shot as it deals with a few things that damnation/wrath doesn't.
Glad you're enjoying the deck, how has Xiahou been playing out for you? I'm still hoping to see him in the FTV:Legends release later this year. I'll probably put Grim Discovery back in when I do get him.
p.s. Don't know it you've seen the new spoilers yet, but there's a few cards that might do pretty well in here. Praetor's Grip looks really good (especially with Xiahou Dun).
Knight-Captain of Eos could be pretty good in here since he provides multiple bodies to sac and can fog lock with some recursion. I also like lands that are creatures or produce creatures like Spawning Pool and Springjack Pasture because they can make useful emergency sac fodder. Recumbant Bliss could easily be replaced with Unmake or Ashes to Ashes.
This built is very inclined ito reanimation...so i see a few cards that would work better with a more token-heavy theme, like Gravepact, however this card is so good that could work in most of the decks.It also seems that you could use a few more sac outlets.
Thanks to Nakamura for the great banner!
Under the facade of an organized religion, the Orzhov hold the economic reins of Ravnica. No matter how poor a person is, the Orzhov will benevolently offer whatever that person needs to survive. They remember who owes them, however, and every person who makes a deal with a member of this guild will have to repay that debt someday, even after death. Like some form of magical Mafia, the Orzhov use the resources taken from their debtors to finance whatever interests the Guild requires, though making sure that none of their "cattle" come to be free from their grip.
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What kind of deck is this? How does it play?
What kind of deck is this?
Deck History
Alternate Playstyles/Customization
Building it on a Budget
The Current Decklist(s)
Wish List
Change Log
Individual Card Choices
Notable Card Omissions
Combos, Tips & Tricks
Music, please
Why Choose Ghost Council:
Because sacrificing things for profit is fun!
Having a card sitting in the command zone that acts as a reliable sac outlet is great for abusing "enters the battlefield" and "dies", or "leaves the battlefield" abilities that are so powerful in this format, and this deck does that without having to rely solely on the commander for success. As an added benefit, GCO rarely draws any aggression from other players, partly becuase he's not seen as an immediate threat on his own, and partly because he's got built-in evasion (providing you have something to sacrifice). As long as your political skills are up to par, you can usually get by "flying under the radar" until it's too late for your opponents to stop you.
Weaknesses:
Archenemy - Focused aggression from multiple opponents is extremely difficult for the deck to deal with, as we don't have a lot of defensive spells to hide behind. This is one reason why finesse, and being able to play politics well is essential to your success as a GCO pilot. If you often find yourself in this "archenemy" situation anyway, you may want to make sure you include an additional defensive package to help you out (discussed below in the optional packages section).
Graveyard Hate - Since our most valuable resource is very often our own graveyard, a meta that includes a lot of grave hate cards can give us problems. First and foremost, try to not get too many threat creatures built up in your graveyard at one time. Use the grave as a short-term place to keep a threat before re-using it. If you have the option of playing a new threat from hand or re-using a threat from the grave, it's usually best to go with the latter option. Another possibility is an additional package of graveyard protection cards (also discussed below in the optional packages section).
How to play it:
Remember, that when playing this deck, politics is paramount. Protect yourself and build your infrastructure without drawing attention to yourself, letting other aggressive players hit each other until you've got the resources to play out/re-play/abuse serious threats and/or combos.
Try not to telegraph your plays. For example, if you've got a combo ready to go with Nim Deathmantle and a threat creature in hand, don't play out the Deathmantle and hope it survives a turn so you can combo out, wait until you can do it all at once, or you have some way of recurring the Deathmantle if it gets killed (like Sun Titan or Beacon of Unrest).
Once politics are "out the window", you'll hopefully be far enough along that you can continually play out and recycle threats. Most of the mini-combos in the deck have variations using different/alternate cards, and because of heavy recursion, nothing stays dead forever, so you should be able to continually set up threatening boardstates in the late game.
All my decks try to adhere to these guidelines:
1) Be able to win.
2) Be mostly true to a flavor and a theme.
3) Be fun to pilot or to play against and interactive.
4) Have multiple paths to victory.
5) Have lots of cool interactions and synergy.
6) Play out differently every game to keep it fun over a long time.
7) Be streamlined and fast to play without excessive upkeep, time-consuming play or overcomplicated boardstates.
8) Integrate the Commanders abilities into the strategy at least a little, but be able to win without ever playing the commander.
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Deck History:
It started out as a Teysa, Orzhov Scion build using lots of tokens. Ghost Council was in the deck as one of the 99. After swapping out the two commanders a couple times, it became clear that GCO had a few advantages over Teysa, primarily being a dependable sac outlet, so it became and has remained GCO ever since. The deck has gone through numerous direction changes over the years, from tokens, to pure combo, bleeder, and everything in between.
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Check Your Package! Taking the deck in your own direction:
I love this deck, and I've been changing/tuning it for a long time, but I'll never make the claim that I have the best possible list, nor do I even believe such a thing even exists. When I tweak the deck, it's to my specific meta and my own tastes, or because I just want to try out a cool new card or slightly different direction. I like to win, but I like to have fun even more. The deck is so versatile, I encourage everyone to take it in their own direction, especially if you report back here on any cool stuff you come across!
Some Possibilities that I've used:
Combo Heavy:
Probably the most competitive route, up the tutor count as far as you're comfortable with and put all the possible combo pieces in there. See the combos/tips/tricks section after the decklist for all the possible combo packages.
There's "Lark/Guide", "Titan/Renewal", "Insta-Bleed", and a few others. Be sure to have Academy Rector in the build if you're combo focused, and Bitter Ordeal helps to kill the table after a Titan or Lark Loop.
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Token Heavy:
If you like playing a lot of tokens, you are in the right place. More token makers like Cloudgoat Ranger, Knight-Captain of Eos, Bitterblossom, Grave Titan, Skeletal Vampire, Belfry Spirit, Ogre Slumlord, Twilight Drover, and Martial Coup. Self Recursion like Nether Traitor, Bloodghast, and Reassembling Skeleton help.
Then ways to pump them like Cathars' Crusade, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite really shine. Of course, Skullclamp is a must. Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter is especially fun with them.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad gains a lot of power in a token heavy build.
More ways to profit from lots of tokens:
Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond
- Skullclamp
- Blood Artist
- Mentor of the Meek
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Heavy Stax Package:
GCO/Orzhov makes a great core platform for a proper Stax molestation of your opponents. I should note that heavy token production goes very well with this. Cards like Smokestack, Braids, Cabal Minion, Sheoldred, Whispering One, and World Queller get the sacrifice fest rolling. Additional profit from cards like Grave Pact, Martyr's Bond, Skullclamp, and Butcher of Malakir pile on the injury. Just make sure to not skimp on sac outlets and especially sac fodder like Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, Bitterblossom, and Nether Traitor.
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Bleeder Package (lifegain/drain):
Lots of people like lifegain. It's less relevant in edh than other formats due to lots of combo and Commander Damage, but it's still nice to gain a lot of life, especially if you can win with it using cards like Test of Endurance or Felidar Sovereign, or use it as a resource with cards like Necropotence. Sanguine Bond is really scary here, and can finish the game with Exquisite Blood. Exsanguinate, Debt of the Deathless, Divinity of Pride, Beacon of Immortality, Reverse the Sands, Serra Ascendant, and Death Grasp are all possibilities.
Vizkopa Guildmage, powerful enough on her own, really shines when this package is included. She combos very well with Kokusho, the Evening Star.
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Defensive Package:
If you often find yourself on the wrong end of an aggressive streak by multiple players, you may want to include a package of cards designed to hold off and/or discourage attacks while you build your board or set up a combo.
Possibilities include.....
Rattlesnakes:
- False Prophet (great rattlesnake, and easily recurrable for multiple uses)
- No Mercy (decent rattlesnake that can be fetched instantly with Academy Rector)
- Vampire Nighthawk (recurs by Sun Titan and Reveillark)
- Stinkweed Imp (recurrable like Nighthawk or by dredge, he adds the fun of dredging threats into the yard for later use)
- Yosei, the Morning Star (Nobody wants to get on his bad side)
- Archon of Justice
.Pillows:
- Kor Haven
- Maze of Ith
- Knight-Captain of Eos (my favorite as he provides sac fodder and enables a couple combos)
.Sweepers:
A few good sweepers can go a long way in holding off multiple aggressors.
- Wrath of God
- Damnation
- Black Sun's Zenith
- Decree of Pain
- Hallowed Burial
- Final Judgment
- False Prophet (recurrable sweeper on a body)
- Merciless Eviction
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Equipment Package:
If you like for your critters to be armed with equipment, we have some really good options there. And don't forget, two of our "auto-include" cards are already equipments, Nim Deathmantle and Skullclamp, with some support coming from Enlightened Tutor, Buried Ruin, and Argivian Find.
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Steelshaper's Gift
- Stonehewer Giant
plus a couple of your favorite beater equips, maybe:- Sword of Light and Shadow
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Sword of War and Peace
- Loxodon Warhammer
- Batterskull
A couple cards worth noting that are nearly unblockable and useful for other aspects of our deck include:- Xiahou Dun-the One Eyed
- Nether Traitor
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Spirit Tribal:
Some minor tweaks can keep the basic function of the deck while going in a more flavorful, tribal direction with it. Some great spirits or related cards would be:
Cavern of Souls - Naming "spirit" makes it an auto-include:
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Karmic Guide
Yosei, the Morning Star
Bloodghast is also a spirit and should be in there anyway.
Myojin of Night's Reach
Belfry Spirit
Angel of Flight Alabaster
Eternal Dragon
Iname, Death Aspect
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Graveyard Protection Package:
If your meta is full of grave hate cards, a few of these may be well worth a card slot.
- True Believer (very recurrable)
- Leyline of Sanctity
- Witchbane Orb
There are a couple of lands that can help out in a pinch:- Mistveil Plains
- Volrath's Stronghold
------------------------Heavy Discard Package:
Not one of my personal favorites, but can be effective and especially cruel. Keep your opponents hands empty with Syphon Mind, Sadistic Hypnotist, Mind Twist, Mind Shatter, Identity Crisis, and especially Myojin of Night's Reach. Liliana of the Veil and Liliana Vess can provide some additional support. Further global discard can be had in Necrogen Mists and Smallpox/Death Cloud. Mindslicer is a powerful but tricky option, and Painful Quandary is a really fun card that gains a lot of power here. Bloodchief Ascension is always an option for profiting from all the discard.
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Lowering the Power Level and Adding More Fun for Everyone:
If you're playgroup isn't very competitive and you want to focus on everyone having more fun there are some good options. Start by taking out cards and combos that casual players hate (Sorin, Yosei, Corpse Dance, Blasting Station, and maybe Nim Deathmantle and Academy Rector) and put in some cards that have interesting but less powerful interactions. For this approach, you'll probably want to steer clear of the Stax and Discard packages.
Some of my favorite multiplayer cards that are strictly for fun are:
Abyssal Persecutor - Not a bad beater on his own, he can add some really interesting politics to the game.
Necrotic Plague - Everybody share the love, and the disease.
Curse of the Cabal - When suspended it starts a kind of game of "chicken".
Treacherous Urge - Hit/miss card, but can be great at times and is always unexpected
Kor Dirge - Fun combat trick nobody ever sees coming.
Pain's Reward - Who wants the cards the most?
Enslave - Because beating someone over the head with their own creature and making them pay life for it is... well, fun.
Withering Boon - Nobody expects a hard creature counter in B/W.
Imp's Mishchief - Very useful card, I wouldn't call using it "lowering" the power level by much. It's fun if somewhat limited in use.
How to build a decent Orzhov deck on a budget:
A fun, and fairly competitive version of any Orzhov build is completely manageable on a budget. I've created several decklists that weigh in at under $100 and even managed to get one under $60.
A full description of how to do it, as well as a sample $66 decklist is available HERE.
My Current Decklist:
Approx:
Deckstats Value = $394
Average CMC = 3.44
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1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
Lands:
8 Swamp
8 Plains
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Godless Shrine
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Kor Haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Artifacts:
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Blasting Station
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Orzhov Keyrune
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Spawning Pit
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Academy Rector
1 Angel of Despair
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Archon of Justice
1 False Prophet
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Karmic Guide
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Reveillark
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Viscera Seer
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Instants:
1 Argivian Find
1 Corpse Dance
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Mortify
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Austere Command
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Profane Command
1 Vindicate
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Enchantments:
1 Angelic Renewal
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Necromancy
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
Mana Lands:
8 Swamp
8 Plains
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
Utility Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Kor Haven
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Mana Help:
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Orzhov Keyrune
1 Solemn Simulacrum (+ draw)
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Academy Rector
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Vampiric Tutor
Recursion:
1 Angelic Renewal
1 Argivian Find
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Corpse Dance
1 Karmic Guide
1 Necromancy
1 Nezumi Graverobber (+ Grave Hate)
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Profane Command (+ Removal, Evasion, Life Drain)
1 Puppeteer Clique (+ Graveyard Hate/Sac Fodder)
1 Reveillark
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One (plus removal)
1 Sun Titan
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Additional Sac Outlets/Combo:
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Blasting Station
1 Spawning Pit (+ Sac Fodder)
1 Viscera Seer
Additional Card Draw:
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Skullclamp (partial sac outlet)
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Mortify
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
Sweepers:
1 Austere Command
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 False Prophet
Other Creatures:
1 Angel of Despair (removal)
1 Angel of Serenity (Removal, Bounce, Recursion, Grave Hate)
1 Archon of Justice (removal)
1 Fiend Hunter (removal)
1 Fleshbag Marauder (removal)
1 Knight-Captain of Eos (defense)
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star (lifegain, combo)
1 Mangara of Corondor (removal)
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter (Sac Outlet/combo, removal)
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Yosei, the Morning Star (combo)
1 Wurmcoil Engine (lifegain, sac fodder)
Misc Spells:
1 Exsanguinate (Lifegain/drain)
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Wish List:
Scrubland
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Change Log:
23 Jun 2011 - In: Corpse Dance, Solemn Simulacrum, Mangara of Corondor, Vampiric Tutor, Culling Dais
Out: Dread Return, Crystal Ball, Innocent Blood, Dimir House Guard, Syphon Mind
28 Jun 2011 - Spawning Pit in for Culling Dais (Dais was a short-lived and ill-advised experiment)
MAJOR CHANGES:
02 July 2011 - IN: Puppeteer Clique, Unmake, Knight-Captain of Eos, and Nether Traitor and Pre-release Rune-Scarred Demon
Out: Wall of Reverence, Eyeblight's Ending, Lightning Greaves, Victimize, and Twilight Shepherd.
Net Effect - More Fodder, More Defense, More Tutoring, Stronger Beaters, Weaker Lifegain.
04 July 2011 - Mistveil Plains in for Plains
07 July 2011 - Reassembling Skeleton in for Nether Traitor
09 Oct 2011 - Out - Deathbringer Liege, Unmake, Barren Moor
In - Angelic Renewal, Unburial Rites, Isolated Chapel
16 Oct 2011 - Praetors Grasp out, Buried Alive in. PG is a strong card, but I hate going through others libraries, and Buried Alive will give me more combo power or get me a ghast in the yard to get the clamp engine going.
28 Nov 2011 - Imp's Mischief out, Entomb in. Thinking maybe I should drop a tutor instead of Imps.
10 Nov 2012 - Out - Sorin Markov, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Damnation, Buried Alive
In - Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Fiend Hunter, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Argivian Find
17 Nov 2012 - Out - Path to Exile, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Unburial Rites
In - Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed YES!!
Undying Evil
Disciple of Bolas
23 Jan 2013:
Massive Update:
Out:
- Bitterblossom
- Bloodghast
- Butcher of Malakir
- Reassembling Skeleton
- Grave Pact
- Debtors' Knell
- Divinity of Pride
- Disciple of Bolas
- Mimic Vat
- Promise of Power
- Undying Evil
- Vivid Marsh
- Vivid Meadow
- Secluded Steppe
.In:
- Angel of Serenity
- Kor Cartographer
- Nezumi Graverobber
- Orzhov Keyrune
- Sepulchral Primordial
- Viscera Seer
- False Prophet
- Necropotence
- Orzhov Guildgate
- Cavern of Souls
- Swamp
- Fellwar Stone
- Necromancy
- Knight-Captain of Eos
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02 Feb 2013
Rend Flesh out for Eyeblight's Ending
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15 Feb 2013
Out - Sepulchral Primordial
In - Vizkopa Guildmage
Individual Card Choices by Function with Alternatives:
Please keep in mind, when I classify a card as one of "the best" (or not), it's only my opinion that takes into account my own preferred style of play and my meta. I would never pretend to be the high authority on card choices for everyone, just for myself.
Optional Grave Pact Package:
I ran this package in the deck for a LONG time, and just recently decided to remove it for other things. It's great for card draw and board control, and gets stronger the more "token-oriented" your build is.
The idea is to be constantly producing and sacrificing creatures and profiting from that.
The Best:
Bloodghast - Comes back for free every time you play a land.
Bitterblossom - Flying, chump blocking, sac fodder every turn. Well worth the cost.
Butcher of Malakir - Another Grave Pact on a flying beatstick.
Grave Pact - Great board control.
Knight-Captain of Eos - Good defensive card anyway, becomes nearly an auto include if you're running this package.
Reassembling Skeleton - Small cost to recur sac fodder.
Skullclamp - Amazing card draw, I run this card even without the rest of the package.
Other Quality Options:
Brood of Cockroaches - Not stellar, but still decent.
Martyr's Bond - The white Grave Pact.
Nether Traitor - Decent self-recurring creature, gets a lot better if you have powerful equipment in the deck as he has shadow.
Stoneforge Mystic - Great way to tutor up Skullclamp or Nim Deathmantle. Gets better if you're running any swords or other powerful equipments.
Optional Insta-Bleed Package:
The Core Pieces:
Exquisite Blood
Sanguine Bond
Vizkopa Guildmage
Exquisite Blood, while powerful in it's own right, outright kills the table with either Sanguine Bond or Vizkopa Guildmage (2nd ability activated) and any source of lifegain, which we have many options for, including our beloved commander.
Valuable, but Optional Support Cards:
Academy Rector - Amazing for fetching a combo piece straight into play
Enlightened Tutor - Fetch a combo piece at opponents EOT and win
Demonic Tutor - Cheap and discreet
Argivian Find - For combo piece recursion
Auramancer - Additional combo piece recursion
Sacrifice Outlets:
The Best:
Ashnod's Altar - The gold standard for this deck. Repeats infinitely and adds mana every time you use it, enabling ramp and infi-mana kills with Exsanguinate, Debt of the Deathless and Profane Command. Recurs with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Especially useful for recurring creatures multiple times with buying back Corpse Dance.
Blasting Station - The "tap/untap" makes you have to manipulate the stack, often requiring a lot more planning/thought, but it's a quality sac outlet that kills the table with any infinite creature etb/ltb loop, such as Reveillark + Karmic Guide, or Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal.
Ghost Council of Orzhova - Don't forget that the most reliable sac outlet is sitting in the command zone! He doesn't go infinite, but he's there when you need him.
High Market - The other sac outlet on a land. Not as good as the Tower, but still a "must have" in a deck like this.
Martyr's Cause - Unusual option in that it's an enchantment, but still very good. If necessary, you can fetch it with Academy Rector.
Phyrexian Tower - Not repeatable, but it's a land, which is great! It works very well for mana-ramping with evergreen creatures like Bloodghast and Reassembling Skeleton.
Spawning Pit - Another very good option that gives you additional sac fodder in return.
Viscera Seer - He doesn't kill the table, but scry does have value, and if it's in an infi-loop, it basically says "tutor any card to the top of library and win". Being very easily recurable is a big bonus.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Nice option as he's VERY recurable, decent beater, and gets infi-big with etb/ltb loops.
Other Quality Options:
Altar of Dementia - Can infi-mill kill the table, but that's not as good as it used to be since an Eldrazi creature (that gets shuffled in on dying) spoils the plan.
Carrion Feeder - Another very recurable sac outlet on a body to abuse, he can also get infi-big and kill someone after an etb loop.
Dimir House Guard - He doesn't add any value to the sacrifices, but he's still a repeatable sac outlet on a body that can be further abused with Skullclamp, Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir, GCO, etc. He's "Larkable" and if you don't need the sac outlet, he's a good transumte tutor for Damnation or Wrath of God.
Disciple of Bolas - Interesting option. Can't sac anything instantly or repeatedly, but he draws you cards and is Larkable.
Phyrexian Altar - Quality outlet that can infi-mana with an etb loop, or provide ramp with sac fodder.
Tutors:
The Best:
Academy Rector - A good rattlesnake, he's instant speed fetching and "play for free" of Debtors' Knell or any other enchantment you might need as long as you have a sac outlet. Amazing card.
Demonic Tutor - The gold standard of tutors. It's a sorcery, but it's cheap to cast and fetches anything to hand without revealing it.
Enlightened Tutor - Cheap and Instant! Card goes to top of library rather than hand, but that's ok here. Best played at the end of your opponents turn.
Entomb - Another great card. When all you need to win the game is a card like Yosei, the Morning Star or Karmic Guide in the gravyard, this card does it instantly.
Expedition Map - Limited in that it can only fetch a land, it's still great. It comes down early, nobody messes with it, it ensures a land drop and gets you a sac outlet land or mana-fixer.
Rune-Scarred Demon - This guy is amazing in here. It's fairly easy to end up fetching multiple cards in a single turn by looping him. Being a 6/6, flying beater is gravy.
Vampiric Tutor - Any card to top of library at instant speed for B. Yes!
Other Quality Options:
Beseech the Queen - Decent budget tutor.
Diabolic Tutor - Decent budget tutor.
Dimir House Guard - Uncounterable fetching of Damnation, Grave Pact, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, and Ghost Council (in case he gets tucked). Added value as a sac outlet and body to abuse.
Dimir Machinations - Also transmutes to combo pieces.
Idyllic Tutor - Slightly less $expensive alternative to Enlightened Tutor.
Shred Memory - Transmutes to a combo piece or use as graveyard hate.
Weathered Wayfarer - Nice card in that it searches for "any" land.
Recursion:
The Best:
Angelic Renewal - Combos for a loop with Sun Titan.
Beacon of Unrest - Solid way to get back a bomb creature or important artifact from your graveyard or someone elses. Shuffles back in to be used again.
Buried Ruin - Need an artifact back to combo out? Here ya go.
Corpse Dance - With buyback, it's probably the most broken card in the deck. Instant speed recursion of any creature. Avoid having to remove the creature at eot by saccing it. Using Ashnod's Altar as a sac outlet, you can often cast Corpse Dance several times in a turn doing massive harm with cards like Angel of Serenity, Yosei, the Morning Star, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Fleshbag Marauder, many more.
Debtors' Knell - Good, every-turn recursion but high mana cost, it gets much better when Academy Rector puts it directly into play at your opponents eot. Solid component for a "Triangle Choke".
Karmic Guide - Easily one of the best recursion creatures. She infi-combos with Lark and even puts herself in the graveyard if you don't want to pay the echo cost.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - Helps all the etb/ltb baddies come back for further abuse, combos with persist creatures (puppeteer clique), and has value as a rattlesnake.
Necromancy - Solid, instant, cheap recursion, becomes near broken with Sun Titan.
Nim Deathmantle - Got a sac outlet? Got Deathmantle? Then you have tons of mini-combos ready to go. If the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar, then you can likely repeat the combo several times in a turn. Abuses the etb/ltb of your creatures and easily recurs with Titan, Beacon, Yawgwin.
Profane Command - Versatility is big in EDH, and this card has it. Removal, Recursion, Alpha Strike, and Life Drain/Finisher all in one card. It also combos with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed to use it every turn.
Puppeteer Clique - Recurs other peoples creatures to be used as you see fit, doubles as very good "graveyard hate", and infi-loop combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to repeat as many times as you want. Using that combo you can steal all creatures from all opps graveyards and hasty alpha strike with them, or sac them all to Ashnod's Altar for a big, nasty Profane Command or Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless.
Reveillark - So pretty, and so deadly. Has evoke, so doesn't even need a sac outlet to recur two creatures to the battlefield. Infi-combos with Guide.
Sheoldred, Whispering One - My favorite "triangle choke" piece, she's generally a bomb that has to be dealt with any time she hits the board. Removal and recursion in one that can be recurred herself. Not a bad beater in her own right, since she has swampwalk.
Sun Titan - Don't play the deck without him! He recurs sac lands, fetch lands, sac outlets, mana rocks, and more. Infi-loops with Angelic Renewal.
Volrath's Stronghold - Not the best option for recursion, but works in a pinch and is a mana producing land, so why not run it. Can also protect a key creature from graveyard removal.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - Self-saccing recursion. He doesn't come back with Lark or Titan, but he brings back lots of spells we need to hand. Being able to recur non-creature cards is big. He also mini-combos with Profane Command. Use the command to finish off a player or as removal/whatever, play and sac Xiahou, get profane back to hand, next turn play profane again to finish off another player/whatever and get Xiahou back in the process, repeat. Another plus for Xiahou is that "horsemanship" make him practically unblockable, so if you're running powerful equipments, he gets more valuable.
Yawgmoth's Will - Nicknamed "Yawgs Win" for a reason. Lets you play any card from your graveyard, even a land card.
Coffin Queen - Versatile card that recurs opponents creatures or your own, just make sure to have a sac outlet ready so you don't have to exile it. She's easily recurrable with Lark or Titan.
Other Quality Options:
Animate Dead - Less effective, but still useful version of Necromancy.
Argivian Find - Limited to artifacts and enchantments, but we often need it to get back combo pieces.
Dread Return - Decent option that works as a sac outlet when flashed back, it's much more at home in a token heavy build.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin - If you're running lots of non-basic lands, then leave this one out, but if you're on a budget and using lots of basics, this land is amazing in here. Be sure to include Expedition Map to fetch it, and recur it with Petrified Field, Sun Titan, Grim Discovery, Yawmoth's Will.
Grim Discovery - Good option if you are running Emeria, the Sky Ruin and/or lots of fetch lands.
Mimic Vat - Staple EDH powerhouse for abusing etb/ltb abilities.
Pull from Eternity - If you often find your Yosei, Kokusho, or other bomb gets exiled, this is your answer.
Reanimate - Solid card that casts for cheap, but better in a 1v1 deck for early game combos.
Unburial Rites - Decent budget option with flashback.
Undying Evil - Handy, instant recursion to keep in hand for when it's needed most, for the low cost of B
Reya Dawnbringer - Expensive to cast and easy to kill, she's not a top choice, but she is an option I thought I'd mention. She's just very outclassed by Sheoldred.
ETB/LTB Creatures:
Here's the good stuff. These creatures are the "meat and bones" of the deck that you abuse repeatedly to win the game.
The Best:
Angel of Despair - Vindicate on a flying, repeatable beatstick! Loop her multiple times to cripple your opponents.
Angel of Serenity - Total BEAST!! You can let her hit the field to temporarily remove threats, or eventually return etb/ltb baddies to your hand. But her real power is in saccing her while her etb ability is still on the stack, that way, her ltb ability resolves first (doing nothing), then her etb ability resolves, removing up to 3 target creatures from the game forever. Solid graveyard hate using this strategy as well.
Archon of Justice - Smaller, cheaper version of Angel of Despair that requires dying to use its ability, it is still just as deadly when repeatedly sacced and recurred. Added benefit is exiling permanents rather than destroying them, and makes a good rattlesnake.
Fleshbag Marauder - Small, but still useful effect, this fat little dude can ravage a board when looped.
Kokusho, the Evening Star - Brother to Yosei, he doesn't lock down the table, but in a loop, he can easily kill them all. Even just looped twice with 3 other players will do 10 damage to all opps and gain you 30 life. Just be prepared to finish them off after doing that, because you will be group enemy number one.
Wurmcoil Engine - Nice lifelinking, deathtouching beater that leaves behind very good tokens, he has lots of value when recurred often. Wurmcoil, or any creature that brings along 2 or more tokens (Grave Titan, Knight-Captain of Eos) plus Ashnod's Altar and Nim Deathmantle, gets you infinite tokens and infinite mana, all at the same time. See combo section for full details.
Yosei, the Morning Star - Crazy good dragon. Great rattlesnake, when looped enough times, he "soft-locks" or "Yosei Locks" the entire table. You will often only have enough mana to loop him a couple times in a turn, so make sure you can finish off what you started, as other players who aren't locked out will almost certainly go aggro on you.
Other Quality Options:
Fiend Hunter - A miniature version of Angel of Serenity, you can abuse the etb/ltb trigger in the same way.
Grave Titan - Another infinite token and mana combo piece, he's not on my first team anymore, but he's very much worth a slot in a token heavy build.
Knight-Captain of Eos - Very good defensive card and sac fodder generator, can combo (like Wurmcoil Engine) for infinite tokens and mana.
Mangara of Corondor - A slower version of Fiend Hunter, you can put his ability on the stack, then sac him, avoiding having to remove him from the game, so you can now re-use him many times with things like Corpse Dance.
Necrotic Sliver - I don't like his activation cost, but he can be very good and recurs with Lark or Titan.
Card Draw:
The Best:
Necropotence - I don't personally use the card, but many swear by it. It is extremely powerful.
Phyrexian Arena - Staple draw for any deck running black. Well worth the life cost.
Promise of Power - Gets you 5 cards and/or a beater token/sac fodder.
Skullclamp - Amazing draw that recurs with Titan. Gets better the more token producers you have in the deck.
Solemn Simulacrum - Too good not to run. Draw and ramp in one on a body to abuse.
Syphon Mind - Good option with 3 other players at the table.
Wall of Omens - Early defense and repeatable draw.
Other Quality Options:
Ambition's Cost - Decent, generic, black draw.
Bloodgift Demon - Not bad if you're looking for more draw, but we've got better.
Disciple of Bolas - Interesting option that can normally get you some really good draw and doubles as a sorcery speed sac outlet.
Graveborn Muse - Lesser version of Bloodgift Demon.
Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper- Budget options.
Spot Removal (not attached to a creature):
Obviously, this deck uses a LOT of removal attached to creatures (187 effects), but it's always good to have some Instant and Sorcery based removal around.
The Best:
Mortify - Versatile, intant, and cheap.
Oblation - Solid removal and tuck.
Swords to Plowshares - Quick, cheap, effective.
Vindicate - Staple BW, sorcery speed, kill almost anything spell.
Other Quality Options:
Aura of Silence - Decent removal that gets recurred by Sun Titan.
Condemn - Great against voltron commanders, decent otherwise.
Eyeblight's Ending - Generic but good
Faith's Fetters - Very versatile as it can shut down Planeswalkers and Utility Lands.
Path to Exile - Good, but I don't like giving my opponent a land.
Rend Flesh - Another quality generic killer
Sweepers:
Always good to have a few of these around. I prefer sweepers that put creatures in the graveyard rather than exiling or tucking everything, but those are still viable options as long as you can keep a sac outlet in play.
The Best:
Austere Command - Best of the best here. Amazing versatility with this selective sweeper.
Black Sun's Zenith - I like this sweeper for its ability to leave an opposing voltron commander at 1 power and basically useless instead of killing him to just be recast again next turn.
Catastrophe - Good versatility. If you've got superior board position (enough to win the game), nuke all lands and go for it.
Damnation and Wrath of God - Being fetchable with Dimir House Guard give them a little more value.
False Prophet - Interesting option that's easily re-useable, the "exile" part still makes me leary.
Terminus - Especially good for tucking problem commanders.
Rout - Nice added flexibility of casting as an instant.
Decree of Pain - High costed, but amazing draw power. Cycling is always a nice added option.
Other Quality Options:
Day of Judgment - Slightly lesser version of Wrath
Hallowed Burial - There's that pesky "not to graveyard" sweep again. Still a solid card and helps dispose of problem commanders.
Oblivion Stone - I don't like that it kills off so much of my own stuff, but some players swear by it.
Merciless Eviction - Versatile exile. Can be good, but still wary of exiling my own stuff.
Graveyard Hate:
I don't like to run dedicated grave hate cards. If you don't need it, it's a dead card in your hand, so if you need some, try to get it on a card that can do other things too.The Best:
Puppeteer Clique - Adds theft and a body to abuse repeatedly.
Angel of Serenity - Functions as grave hate if you sac her before her etb ability resolves.
Nezumi Graverobber - Hates any card out of a grave, not just creatures. Recurrable clamp target, pact trigger, and can become a serious recursion threat on his own.
Coffin Queen - Fun card that gives you lots of options. She's grave hate with theft and recurs our own creatures too, just make sure you have a sac outlet handy so you don't have to exile them.
Other Quality Options:
Nihil Spellbomb - It can get you a card and be re-used with Sun Titan.
Withered Wretch - Good hate with a body to abuse.
Stonecloaker - Good hate with the ability to just bounce himself back to hand and be re-used, or bounce one of your fatties back to hand in response to a wrath or just to abuse it's etb ability again.
Miscellaneous Cards:
Cards not covered in other sections for whatever reason.
The Best:
Vizkopa Guildmage - Easily recurrable and VERY powerful if you're running lots of lifegain. Mini-combos with Kokusho, the Evening Star and kills the table with Exquisite Blood plus any source of lifegain (which she can give to any creature).
Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless - Late game bomb can easily win you the game.
Knight of the White Orchid - Solid choice for mana help/ramp.
Kor Cartographer - Another good ramp card if you need it. He's not as good as green ramping creatures, but we have limited options.
Stinkweed Imp - Good defensive creature that recurs himself to hand while dumping reanimation targets into the graveyard.
Trading Post - I don't know if there is a card more versatile than this one. Sac Fodder, Creature Dumping, Card Draw, Lifegain, Sac Outlet, Artifact Recursion.... Ok, I'm sold.
Other Quality Options:
Imp's Mischief - Interesting card that has saved my butt on occasion.
Tithe - Helps to ensure land drops.
Eternal Dragon - A possibility for helping with land drops along with a body to repeatedly abuse.
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Notable Card Omissions:
Cabal Coffers:
Cabal Coffers is a VERY powerful land and wins games in a mono-black deck. In a multi-color deck, even just two-color, it will hold you back far more than it will help, and it loses games. You have to have Coffers plus 4 swamps in play to see any profit from it not just being a basic land. And once it's active, if you run many non-swamp lands at all, it's power is greatly diminished. If it's not active, it's a completely dead land, sitting on the field doing nothing but hurting you. It can severely hinder tempo/early game development. I've lost several games because of an inactive coffers. Yes, Urborg makes everthing a swamp, the two of them are great together, but you can nowhere near count on drawing them both, even with tutors, nor can you count on the other players not giggling when they Strip Mine Urborg to leave you with an inactive coffers again. The only multi-color decks that can effectively use coffers must have green in them. With green you can tutor them both up and instantly have it online with something like Primeval Titan, or tutor for more needed basic swamps, but even in the case of green, I'm still shy of the card for hampering early game development.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin:
Emeria, the Sky Ruin - Not as bad as Coffers since it can always tap for mana, It's truly powerful, but if you run it, you need to keep non-plains cards as low as you can get away with to make sure it can go active. In this deck, and in consideration of my meta, I've decided to forego Emeria for a strong suite of utility lands.
Crypt of Agadeem:
Crypt of Agadeem - There are never enough creatures in my yard to justify including this.
Oblivion Ring:
Oblivion Ring - I used to run this all the time, but far too often, whatever I removed with it would come back to haunt me later. It protects its target from the next sweeper to hit the board and just waits for the next enchantment removal to allow that thing to be a threat again. I started running Faith's Fetters in its place and have been much happier. Fetters cost 1 more, and is still a temporary fix, but it stops most everything that O-ring stops, doesn't protect its target from sweepers, and also shuts down troublesome utility lands like Maze of Ith. The 4 life is a nice little bonus that may seem insignificant in edh, but I'm always surprised how often games come down to just a couple life points.
More Coming Soon
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Cool Interactions/Combos/Tricks/Tips:
The Triangle Choke
The Yosei Lock
Corpse Dance
Lark/Guide Combo
Insta-Bleed Combos and Vizkopa Guildmage
Angel of Serenity
Nim Deathmantle Combos
Sun Titan/Renewal Combo
Fiend Hunter
Viscera Seer Infi-Scry
Mangara of Corondor
Puppeteer Clique
Ghost Council/Mimic Vat Trick
Xiahou Dun
A Note About Ghost Councils Ability:
GCO reads - 1, Sacrifice a creature: Exile Ghost Council of Orzhova. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Keep in mind that if you exile GCO at the end of a turn, he will not return to play until the next end of turn trigger.
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The Triangle Choke:
One of the strategies of the deck is to set up an ongoing sac/recursion engine with one of it's etb/ltb baddies to win a war of attrition. This isn't a fast "insta-win" combo, but a slow-grinding down of your opponents turn after turn, and since the pieces are interchangeable with so many alternatives, it's hard to not have a triangle choke set up at least once or twice during a game. With only one opponent remaining (due to late game or a 1v1 match), a good triangle choke is pretty much game over.
The choke can be applied easily with one card in each of 3 categories (hence, "triangle"), they are all somewhat interchangeable, and become even stronger with Grave Pact, Martyr's Bond, or Butcher of Malakir in play. Of course, Skullclamp helps get some extra profit from this too.
The Sac Outlet:
- Ghost Council of Orzhova
- Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
- Phyrexian Tower
- High Market
- Blasting Station
- Ashnod's Altar
- Phyrexian Altar
- Dimir House Guard
- Trading Post
- Viscera Seer
- Spawning Pit
..
The Recursion Engine:
- Debtors' Knell
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Mikaeus the Unhallowed
- Nezumi Graverobber
- Mimic Vat
- Nim Deathmantle
- Reya Dawnbringer
- Coffin Queen
- Karmic Guide (on Mimic Vat or Nim Deathmantle)
- Corpse Dance (with buyback)
...
The ETB/LTB Creature:
- Yosei, the Morning Star
- Kokusho, the Evening Star
- Angel of Serenity
- Angel of Despair
- Archon of Justice
- Mangara of Corondor (if you're using Corpse Dance to give her haste for her ability)
- Fiend Hunter
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The Yosei Lock:
Yosei, the Morning Star offers several ways to effectively lock out a single player rather easily, and he can even lock out a whole table with enough mana available.
Here are several ways you can accomplish it:
Yosei + any sac outlet +
Sheoldred, Whispering One or Debtors' Knell = Lock out a single player every turn.
Mimic Vat - Sac him, tap down player, imprint him on the vat, repeat every turn. The token still works like the real Yosei.
Mimic Vat with Karmic Guide imprinted or Reveillark imprinted and Karmic in the gy will do the same.
Nim Deathmantle - Sac him, tap down player and pay 4 to return him to play. Repeat next turn. 8 locks out two players, 12 locks out 3 players, etc. If your sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you can lock out 3 other players with just 8 mana.
Corpse Dance -Sac Yosei, the Morning Star, tap player down, Corpse Dance with buyback repeat. If you can produce 9 mana and have Ashnods out, you can lock out 3 players for one turn. 11 mana locks out 3 players for good.
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Using Corpse Dance:
Corpse Dance is a one card recursion engine if you've got a sac outlet in place and enough mana for the buyback cost. Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Tower as the sac outlet make playing it multiple times in a turn very doable.
Corpse Dance (w/buyback) + Sac Outlet +:
Reveillark or Karmic Guide = Super Recursion
Angel of Despair or Archon of Justice or Mangara of Corondor = Destroy any permanent every turn.
Yosei, the Morning Star = Lock down as many players as you can afford to.
Wurmcoil Engine = Big Hasty Deathtouching, Lifelinking suicide beater that leaves behind two (or more) tokens to keep.
Butcher of Malakir or Fleshbag Marauder = A sweep if you have the mana for multiples.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - His own sac outlet....Just SIIICK!
Fiend Hunter - Creature Exiling Machine Gun.
Kokusho, the Evening Star - Bleed everyone dry while boosting your own life.
Endless possibilities!
As an added bonus, Corpse Dance is an "Instant" rather than "Sorcery" like most recursion, so it can reanimate an emergency blocker or in response to graveyard hate to save a creature you don't want to lose forever (then sac it back after hate resolves).
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Lark/Guide Combo!!:
Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Continuing Sac Outlet = An infinite loop of Lark and Guide entering/leaving the battlefield. The third piece of the combo can have varying effects:
Blasting Station = Kill the table
Altar of Dementia = Mill the table (iffy due to Eldrazi creatures)
Ashnod's Altar = Infinite Mana for an Exsanguinate, Debt of the Deathless or Profane Command
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter = Infinite creature kill and infinitely large vampire.
Viscera Seer - Infinite scry, which equates to (if done at upkeep) put any card in your hand (blasting station), play it and kill the table.
You can also follow the 1,000 Lark/Guide recursions with a Bitter Ordeal and exile everyones library.
If you're not familiar with how the Lark/Guide combo works, I'll explain it here as best I can:
Here is how you manage an ifinite loop of Karmic Guide and Reveillark with Blasting Station as your sac outlet (henceforth known as Guide, Lark, and BS), by manipulating the stack.
With Guide in the graveyard, doesn't matter how she got there, she self sacs if you don't pay her echo.
You BS sac (or evoke) Lark, which returns Guide to play. When Guide comes into play, 2 triggers happen...
Trigger 1 = Return Lark to play
Trigger 2 = Untap BS
You control both triggers, so you get to decide what order they go on the stack. Stack them just like that.
Trigger 2 comes off the stack first and untaps BS. With Trigger 1 still on the stack, BS sac Guide. Now let Trigger 1 resolve and Lark comes into play untapping BS again.
That puts you back where you started. With Guide in the gy, Lark in play, and an untapped Blasting Station (and an opponent -2 life).
You can also do it with Lark in the graveyard and Guide in hand. You'll figure it out.
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Insta-Bleed Combo:
Exquisite Blood is the centerpiece card here.
Add Vizkopa Guildmage (second ability) or Sanguine Bond with any source of lifegain and you kill the table.
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Vizkopa Guildmage Mini-Combos:
Vizkopa Guildmage has a few powerful but non-infinite combos that can be extremely powerful. Many people don't realize that her second ability can be used multiple times for some devastating blows.
Her second ability with multiple activations and a Kokusho, the Evening Star being sacrificed, or a big Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless can easily end or completely turn a game around.
She has great, natural synergy with any lifelinker/life gaining cards like:
- Divinity of Pride
- Wurmcoil Engine
- Death Grasp
- Beacon of Immortality
- Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
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Using Angel of Serenity:
Angel of Serenity is an extremely powerful and versatile card when used properly.
If you need cards from your graveyard or from play back to your hand in order to abuse their etb/ltb abilities, let her resolve then sac her off, giving you those cards back in hand. That's easy.
But
If you need to kill opposing creatures or to exile cards in someones graveyard forever, here's how it's done:
Play her, her etb ability (exile 3) goes on the stack. In response, sac her to whatever. Her ltb ability (return the 3 to hand) will now resolve first, and since you haven't exiled the 3 to start with, it fizzles. Now her etb ability resolves and exiles the 3 creatures forever.
And of course, she is VERY abuseable with any sac outlet and Nim Deathmantle, Corpse Dance, Karmic Guide, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, and many more.
Angel of Serenity + Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle = Sac Angel to Altar (putting two mana in pool), pay two more to bring her back with Deathmantle, sac her again before her etb ability resolves, it resolves, remove 3 opponent creatures from play or graveyard, repeat until all threats are gone. You may want to use her final entrance onto the battlefield to exile and eventually recur some of your own stuff.
This mini-combo can also be used with Corpse Dance instead of Deathmantle, but it takes a little more mana.
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Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar Mini-combo:
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar
I've won many games off having these two cards in play with a good etb/ltb creature. 8 mana lets you trigger the creatures' ability 4 times. If the creature is Angel of Despair or Archon of Justice, you can cripple an opponent (or Mangara of Corondor if you've also got Lightning Greaves in play). Karmic Guide let's you reanimate most or all of your creatures, Fleshbag Marauder or Butcher of Malakir lets you sweep the board, and as stated earlier, Yosei, the Morning Star can permanently lock out 3 other players with just that 8 mana.
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar Combo for Infinite Mana & Tokens:
Nim Deathmantle plus Ashnod's Altar plus any creature that brings at least two tokens into play with it = Infinite Tokens and Mana. The creature could be Grave Titan, Skeletal Vampire, Knight-Captain of Eos, Cloudgoat Ranger, Marsh Flitter, or Wurmcoil Engine. Whatever.
Here's how it works with Knight-Captain of Eos:
KC in play with the 2 tokens he brought. Sac the two tokens to Ashnods which puts 4 in the pool. Now sac KC himself to the altar. 6 in pool, using 4 of it to bring KC back with Deathmantle. Now you're at your starting state and up 2 in the pool. Repeat for as many times as you need to kill the table with an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless.
NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT INIF-MANA: It's time to get infi-tokens.
Just sac off KC and one token instead of both tokens, and use the 4 mana that generates to return KC to play on the Deathmantle. Now you're even on mana and +1 token. Repeat.
There's also a cool trick with this combo and Persist Creatures. See the Puppeteer Clique trick below.
Deathmantle + Ummmm + ANYTHING!:
Just having Deathmantle and a sac outlet out makes abusing etb/ltb abilities so cheap and easy it's crazy. Archon of Justice or Angel of Despair with 8 mana on board = Destroy any 2 target permanents. If the sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you get to kill 4 permanents. How many turns can someone hold up losing 2 to 4 target perms each time?
Karmic Guide + Nim Deathmantle:
Karmic Guide + Nim Deathmantle - KG kills itself every upkeep, pay 4, get KG and another creature back every upkeep.
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Sun Titan Renewal Combo:
Sun Titan plus Angelic Renewal plus any repeatable sac outlet gives you an infinite etb/ltb loop that you can take advantage of in several ways, or just follow up with a Bitter Ordeal and win.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter + Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal = Infinite Removal, and Infi-Big Vish swinging for max damage and lifegain. Sac Titan to Vish, bring it back with Renewal, bring Renewal back with Titan, repeat.
If your sac outlet is Blasting Station, you can kill the table with infi-damage.
If your sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, you can generate infi mana for a game winning Exsanguinate/Debt of the Deathless/Profane Command.
Sun Titan also infi combos with Fiend Hunter and a repeatable sac outlet (see Fiend Hunter section below).
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Fiend Hunter Combos:
As long as you have a sac outlet and repeatable recursion, Fiend Hunter is an exile machinegun. When FH comes into play, let the first ability go on the stack. With that still on the stack, sac FH. FH will go to the graveyard to be used again, the second ability goes on the stack and fizzles, and the first abilty will resolve, exiling target creature forever. Repeat.
This kind of combo works especially well with Nim Deathmantle and Ashnod's Altar, but there are lots of other ways to abuse it, like Corpse Dance, or just doing it once per turn with recursion like Sheoldred, Whispering One.
Fiend Hunter goes infinite with Sun Titan and a repeatable sac outlet. This time, when FH comes into play, exile your Sun Titan. Let everything resolve. Sac Fiend Hunter, bringing back Sun Titan, which brings back Hunter again, repeat as many times as you want.
Profit from this loop depends on the sac outlet:
Blasting Station = Kill the table
Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar = Infinite Mana
Viscera Seer = Infinite Scry
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter = Infi targeted creature removal and infi big Vampire smack down.
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Viscera Seer Infinite Scry:
With Viscera Seer as a sac outlet, any infinite loop, such as Reveillark + Karmic Guide or Sun Titan + Angelic Renewal turns into "fetch any card". Since you can scry every time you use her sac ability, you can just keep scrying through your deck until you find Blasting Station, play it and use it as the sac outlet now, and kill the table.
*** Note - Since you have to draw the card you scry to the top of the library, this trick has to be done either at your upkeep (or end of opps turn), or with a draw spell in your hand if your plan is to kill the table immediately.
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Mangara of Corondor Trick:
Mangara of Corondor can be repeatedly used as a Vindicate as long as you have a sac outlet. You activate her ability, and with that on the stack, sac her. She goes to gy instead of being exiled, so you can now reanimate her and use her again next turn.
Mangara + Corpse Dance + Sac Outlet = Vindicating Machinegun as long as your mana holds out. If the sac outlet is Ashnod's Altar, the mana goes farther.
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Puppeteer Clique Tricks:
Puppeteer Clique + Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle = Massive hasty alpha strike with every creature from every other graveyard. Here's how it works:
Sac Clique to Altar (2 mana in pool), persist brings it back.
Sac it again (4 in pool), use the 4 mana to bring it back with deathmantle, not persist. You control both triggers so you get to stack it however you want. Now you've got clique and two opponent reanimated hasty creatures. Do that as many times as you want, swing.
Clique + Corpse Dance - You can reanimate Clique (+ another creature) with Corpse Dance and never have to remove Clique from the game. Sac him to whatever outlet, he persists and comes back (+ another creature) as a completely new creature, so Corpse Dance can't find him at eot.
Clique + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + any sac outlet - Lets you repeat Clique as many times as you want.
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The Ghost Council/Vat Protection Trick:
If you have a creature on Mimic Vat and someone tries to kill the vat, you can lose an important creature like Yosei to the exile zone when you need him in the graveyard. A way to protect yourself from the exile is:
Killing or Sacrificing any creature in response to the "kill vat" spell. Imprint the new creature on the vat which returns your important one to your graveyard. This can also be accomplished by (Thanks to Kyusurugi):
Saccing Ghost Council to himself.
Allow him to go to the graveyard.
Imprint him on the vat.
When the vat sends him to exile, choose to place him back in the command zone.
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Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed Shenanigans:
If you're lucky enough to own a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, he can be used in several powerful ways, again, this becomes considerably more powerful if you have a Grave Pact effect in play.
Xiahou + Nim Deathmantle or Mimic Vat or Corpse Dance = Return black card to hand every turn.
Xiahou + Profane Command = Every turn you cast Profane to drain life and recur Xiahou, then sac Xiahou to get the Profane back.
Xiahou is particularly at home in a build that includes an equipment package. With "horsemanship", he is virtually unblockable.
------------------------
.
Recommended Playlist:
Don't Fear the Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult
Dead Man's Party - Oingo Boingo
Cemetery Gates - Pantera
Advanced Deck Analysis:
A little out of date, but still pretty close. I'll leave it up as an example.
I plugged it into Deckstats (had to make a few subs for cards they don't recognize) and here is what I got:
Average CMC = 3.47 (happy with that)
The color distribution to sources is pretty much spot on, and the mana curve is sexy!
Now for the craziness that I did myself (I may have miscounted something, and some of it's open to slight interperetation, but it gives a good idea of the densities).
And where something says "single-use" keep in mind everything is re-useable with Yawgmoth's Will, so there really is no such thing as only "single use". And Praetor's Grasp can become just about anything, so I didn't include it in any of the counts.
Sac Outlets:
Total - 9
One use per turn = 4
Rapid Fire = 3
Single Use = 2
Tutoring - Cards that can fetch...
Anything = 2
Utility Land = 4
Creature = 2
Enchantment = 4
Artifact = 3
Instant/Sorc = 2
Removal A: Uses 2 numbers (mostly single use/easily repeatable)
Total Mass Removal = 3/0 = 3
Untargetted Spot Removal = 3/4 = 7
Removal B: (also using the same 2 numbers) Cards that can remove....
Any permanent = 1/3 = 4
Land = 3/3 = 6
Creature = 13/8 = 21
Enchantment = 4/3 = 7
Artifact = 3/3 = 6
Planeswalker = 2/3 = 5
Indestructible Creature = 6/5 = 11
Graveyard Hate = 2
Cards that do/can ramp:
As a primary purpose = 8
As a possibility but can't count on = 2
Pump/Evasion = 6
Beaters: Obviously open to interperetation. I don't count anything with 3 or less power and no evasion. 3-4 power with evasion is "medium". 5 power with evasion is "large".
I call Archon of Justice, Ghost Council of Orzhova, and Sun Titan (no evasion) "Medium".
Medium = 4
Large = 9
Recursion: (again using single use/easily repeatable) Cards that can recur....
Land = 2/1 = 3
Creature = 5/9 = 14
Artifact = 2/1 = 3
Planeswalker = 2/0 = 2
Enchantment = 2/0 = 2
Instant/Sorc = 2/0 = 2
Draw = 5
Cards that primarily are or produce sac fodder = 4
Cards that gain me life:
Minor gains = 3
Major gains possible = 4
Cards that Drain other players life or deal direct damage:
Minor = 3
Major = 3
Cards that prevent damage = 1
Cards that Double Trigger Deathbringer Liege = 8
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
I guess my idea was to be a bit more defense oriented, just because I feel like that can work out good in multiplayer games. I personally am going to stay away from the infinite combos and probably replace those spots and the tutors for some walls (souls of the faultless and wall of glare come to mind first) because I really like the deterrent strategy in multiplayer. Maybe some more spot removal too. Theres definitely an overlap of a lot of the cards I was thinking of and some of your other choices give me good ideas too. I guess I'm just taking it in a bit of a different direction!
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
I have tried several of the cards you mentioned, especially when I was running a more defensive/lifegain version. If you go that way with it I will recommend the Ghostly Prison, and No Mercy. I've used both and they worked well for that strategy. I was a little underwhelmed with Reassembling Skeleton, and since have just stuck with Bloodghast as my eternal sac fodder. Test of Endurance is also a great alt-win with all that lifegain. And you may look to some extra enchantment recursion like Argivian Find or Auramancer.
Oh, about Reya.... I used her for a long time, and hated to finally take her out, but there were just sooo many times the game was already decided before she ever hit the board, and Debtor's Knell works better than her anyway as it's harder to remove and takes creatures from anyones gravyard, not just your own. She has more merit in long multiplayer games though, so I wouldn't rule her out completely. Ever since Mimic Vat and Deathmantle were printed, she's lost some of her shine.
Build the deck, you'll be glad you did.... Ghost Council has been a GREAT general for me. It's incredibly versatile.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
It's banned on the official multiplayer list, but it's not on the French List for 1v1 or the MTGS list.
If I'm playing competitive 1v1 it goes in.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Also, your EDH building post was AMAZING and super helpful. Thank you for all the work you put into it. I have finally found the help I was looking for!
Sig by the amazing RIVENOR
BRWKaalia of the VastBRW
GWRMayael the AnimaGWR
GWRUril the MiststalkerGWR
GRThromok the InsatiableGR
I'm glad you found the stuff helpful. If I can be of any further assistance feel free to ask in one of my threads or even pm me.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
So what other cards would you like to put in to optimize this edh? like a Scrubland? or Sensei's top? (for some crystal ball+ sensei top awesomeness)or Extraplanar lens (using snow swamps and snow plains instead to not help your opponents.) Cabal coffers? for some awesome mana ramp, and Sadistic Sacrament to decimate those super tech infinite combo decks (since you've already accommodated for other types recurrsion, voltron, blue decks. )
Also!, I'd like to know what cards you would be switching out for your side board ie. the sol ring, armageddon, sorin, recurring nightmare during a lets say "cutthroat" game to increase your "cruelty"
Ty ahead of time :D:D:p
Thanks for the compliment. I have more fun with this deck than any other I've ever played.
When I use the "board":
Recurring Nightmare goes in for either Dread Return or Nim Deathmantle.
Sol Ring goes in for a basic land
Sorin and Armageddon usually only go in for 1v1 duels, I usually take out Exsanguinate (since that's so much stronger in multiplayer) and whatever other random card I feel like at the moment. Deathless Angel/Mindcensor/Wayfarer.
Optimizations that I want to put in:
Scrubland
Wastelnd
Vampiric Tutor
Off color fetchlands (polluted delta, bloodstained mire, windswept heath flooded strand, arid mesa)
and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed! I want a copy of that card SO BAD in here! I've really got my hopes up for a FTV:Legends reprint. I can't think of another card that would be so deadly in this build. If it doesn't get reprinted, I'll probably just break down and shell out the 100+ bucks.
On the cards you mentioned:
Sensei's Top - No doubt it's good, I chose to run ball instead for simplicity and to save a bit of money. I've been very satisfied with ball so far and I probably won't end up with both in there since card slots are at such a premium at this point. I certainly wouldn't doubt anyones decision to run both though.
I've tried extraplanar lens and it was nice at times, but I usually found myself wanting something else. And it is a bit of a setback if someone decides to blow it up once you've exiled a land with it. I do run it in my mono black Geth deck where I love it.
Cabl Coffers I've tried in several decks and have removed it from all but my mono black (where it's the mvp). With all the non-swamp cards in the deck there were just too many games that it sat on the field doing nothing but making me mad that it wasn't a basic land.
Sadistic Sacrament - I have mixed feelings about it, and I have run it before. Casting it early has usually been underwhelming. Casting it late pretty much says "I win" against most decks, but so does a lot of other cards. I also had some decent results with Bitter Ordeal place of it. Played after a big Damnation (at least in multiplayer) it pretty much guts a deck, and adds the flexibility of being able to take cards from multiple players decks since each copy can choose a new target. It also adds another way to kill the table with the Lark/Guide combo (though if your sac outlet for that is blasting station or altar of dementia it's not needed). I think either SadSac or Ordeal are good choices for the deck, it's mostly just personal preference that I don't run them anymore. If I manage to get a Xiahou Dun for the deck, I might have to re-evaluate both cards as they could become much more deadly with his recurring them for multiple uses.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Yeah I understand the feeling with the cabal coffers and extraplanar lens space is highly valued and you gotta pull your own weight. I'll be gathering the last few cards I need for the GCO line up and see how this deck work and see if I got any tweaks, keep me updated on any new idea or changes.
but i was wondering about Sorrin Markov? is he just not that great because it's a one shot to the dome for only one person? i would think that putting some one who's getting a little ahead of the group down to ten and beatting them for 10+ would be a little sobering for them.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't think he's good. He's great, but I usually only bring him in for 1v1 because in multiplayer, which is usually very casual/non cutthroat where I play, I either have to listen to the "unfair" complaining, or if I do take soemone down to 10, everyone at the table immediately focuses on me. I'm not suggesting anyone not run him by any stretch.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Painter's Servant is banned on the official multiplayer list and the French list, but it isn't banned on the MTGS banned list
Recurring Nightmare is on the multiplayer, but isn't on either of the 1v1 lists, French or MTGS.
I'll put another note about that under the Teysa section.
Your playgroup uses both multi and french 1v1 lists for their 1v1? I'd go with GCO in that case.
But just for the record, your decklist was completely legal under MTGS rules.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Sweeet. I'm jealous!
Make sure you're running Profane Command. You should be anyway, but it and Xiahou keep recurring each other ftw.
With Xiahou in the deck besides the Corpse Dance, I'd probably run an extra recursion spell or two just to make sure. Probably Reanimate/Dread Return
Xiahou + plenty of recursion makes several cards in the build go from strong to insanely powerful:
Mimic Vat and Nim Deathmantle become just silly good.
Profane Command
Vindicate
Victimize - Christ what you can do with Victimize and Xiahou!
Victimize + Xiahou +:
Angel of Despair
Archon of Justice
Twilight Shepherd
Yosei, the Morning Star
It makes me giggle.
I can't stand it anymore.... if Xiahou doesn't get reprinted in FTV Legends, I'm buying one anyway.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
I replaced just the basic swamp and plains for the fetch lands, but then I realized, that by putting in and 5 more fetch lands and taking out 5 basics that the maximum potential of the mana pool shrinks by 5 mana with the added benefit that I could pull scrubland and godless shrine early on.
However, in a land hate game (or just a long game that has gone through too many Armageddons)that kinda detrimental in the long run. I was wondering if you hand a different substitution in mind? or would you just sub in the fetch for basic and just hope for the best?
Also for Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, I subbed him in for Deathless Angel since you've remarked that she is somewhat lackluster for this deck (although I could see something funny with her and Damnation with something like sun titan or some other ridiculous creature). And I was wondering if you had any better subs than that?
Furthermore, to address the extra recursion spells for Xiahou's Almightly presence corpse dance, Reanimate and Dread return (coincidentally I replaced Dread return for corpse dance :o) What sub ins would you do? I'm having a hard time determining which cards are less valuable than the others (Yeah, if this deck was a piece of land, the cost for a spot would probably be the equivalent of living in Hollywood or your own private island or something :-/)
In addition, for your "currently auditioning spots" I haven't subbed in geth or treacherous urge or lifeline (since this deck is soo tight and for me: "if it ain't broke don't fix it") But!!! I'm curious as to whether or not you think those who are auditioning can make the cut, and if so, how?
-Thanks!
For the fetch lands - I can't imagine the game with so much LD that I'd rather run more basics than have the advantage of fetchlands. That said, there isn't a lot of mass LD in my meta so I don't have much to draw on there. If LD is a big problem where you play, I'd recommend Flagstones of Troikair. The only reason it's not on my list is that I don't have one yet. I would say Crucible of Worlds, but that's on both 1v1 banned lists.
With Xiahou in the deck (Just theorycrafting here), Grim Discovery might warrant a second look. It would act as not only as some extra recursion, but it also makes a loop with Xiahou to replay lands from out of the graveyard every turn to help with that LD problem. If you test that out, I'd like to know how it goes.
About subbing out Deathless Angel - As you said, real estate is at a serious premium, and I hate to cut out anything at this point. So many of the cards I just consider to be "un-cuttable". I think the possibilities are:
Deathless Angel
Aven Mindcensor
Weathered Wayfarer
Eternal Dragon
Wall of Reverence
maybe Necrotic Sliver
maybe World Queller
Geth - He's probably going to get a permanent spot. He's been doing pretty well.
Treacherous Urge - Probably not for 1v1. It's been extremely fun and useful in multiplayer though. And nobody ever sees it coming.
Lifeline - I haven't been able to play it enough yet to say really. I'm thinking it's kind of unnecessary, but I'm not sure yet.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
As for the LD, in my meta, we generally just have normal edh games, and then when we are ever feeling frisky we'll instate "Cutthroat" in which we start a game just brawling with each other as hard as possible, no politics, no ***** footing, no mercy and grudge matches are welcome. (with the exception that whatever happens in cutthroat stays in cutthroat) and so my friends will switch to their not so nice cards into their decks. Two of the generals I often face are Numot, the devastator and Scion of the Ur-Dragon (which subsequently has Numot in his deck anyways) and with cutthroat, there is probably a good 1 or 2 Armageddons or Global Ruin (for the 5 color generals with dual lands) going off per game if a player gains board control and wants to hold it.
Also not to mention that I have a friend who runs Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief for a general with Colbalt Coffers , Extraplanar lens, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and with snow covered swamps (so he only benefits from the lens) in which he is generally very happy to use Helldozer to destroy all our fancy dual lands, legendary lands, and all nonbasic lands with his extraplanar lens+cabal coffers+ urborg for 50-100(god knows how much mana sometimes) in one fell swoop when we're too busy brawling to notice. (he's kinda a the quiet sneaky type too so he gets away with it! :facepalm:)
Occasionally we'll see an Arcum Dagsson with a Darksteel forge+ Mycosynth Lattice+ Nevinyrral's Disk rear his ugly head and cry when it happens :swear::crying::crying:.
Overall, its pretty good fun to blow off some steam and completely annihilate your entire meta for fun. Often these combos are not seen too often, but when cutthroat comes around that's when we start to see massive LD and board wipes. This is just to give you and idea of what type of LD I was theory crafting around.:teach:
So I've just giving you an update of Grim Discovery. With Xiahou Dun, its just too good to keep out, after playing a couple of rounds I've found it to be a life saver for those games that go just a little south when land and board wipes run rampant. And it helps pull ahead in 1v1, with wasteland and strip mine recurrsion. And even when there's no land in your gy, its just nice to have a recursion method. So I've decided to keep it
Also, I see you've been testing out black sun's zenith i was wondering how that was working out for you. And have you gotten a xiahou dun yet?
So after playing this deck for awhile with xiahou dun and corpse dance. I think you should consider Solemn Simulacrum, for mana acceleration and card draw. This card is soo useful, especially with the amount of recurrsion/sac going on in this deck and the possible Mimic Vat combo. In addition with the 4 mana cost, you can tutor this up with 3 ways, including dimir house guard easily, this can help with just overall deck speed.
I feel this would be a extremely strong addition although he is neither white or black, I believe speeding up this deck and strengthening it's mana base and card draw is the next best move.
Another card I would suggest after would be Crucible of Worlds this will assist with cruelty by having a crippling land destruction by recurring strip mine and destroying your opponent(s) lands. It is as easily tutor-able as mimic vat since the cost are the same.This also goes well, after Solemn Simulacrum and a late game Armageddon is cast (by your opponent or yourself). This will allow you to return your lands lost, and increase the decks resilience against all types of mass wipes.
I hope you're having fun this GCO deck, because I'm definitely enjoying it. Hope you're still reading these posts ;):p and I look forward to hearing your thoughts
I've actually thought about both Simulacrum and Crucible quite a bit but don't have either yet. Very likely they'll go in if I can trade for copies at some point.
I did put Weathered Wayfarer in/back in to help me get more land. My LGS is having a multiplayer tourney in two weeks so I'm tweaking things back to a more multiplayer focus instead of trying to be versatile mp/duels with it.
Black Sun's Zenith has been working out very well, I'd recommend giving it a shot as it deals with a few things that damnation/wrath doesn't.
Glad you're enjoying the deck, how has Xiahou been playing out for you? I'm still hoping to see him in the FTV:Legends release later this year. I'll probably put Grim Discovery back in when I do get him.
p.s. Don't know it you've seen the new spoilers yet, but there's a few cards that might do pretty well in here. Praetor's Grip looks really good (especially with Xiahou Dun).
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
How about:
Miraculos Recovery, Attrition, High Market(to dodge Steal effects or stuff like that), Sadistic Hypnotists, Myoyin of the Night Reach, Oversold Cementery, Martyr's Cause...
Also, your best and maybe only target worth fetching with Academy Rector is Debtor's Knell. I think you should take a second look at that.
My built is more token oriented with bunch of sac outlets and Armagedon Effects. I'll link my built under my Sig Banner.