I'm having the same doubts about Stolen Strategy. It's a lot of value though if it sticks around. No idea what it should replace though. I'm kinda thinking something like Mind's Eye?
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
Mind's Eye has been very lackluster in my experience. It's great if it survives a few turns, but I never want to tap out to cast it or keep mana open to use it. I almost never have it out unless I Goblin Welder it into play.
Maybe I'm just jaded by my group's Azusa player who gets it out turn 2 with mana to activate it.
i'm trying to find space for Stolen Strategy. same reasoning as with dire fleet devil, sometimes you are not in a position to have enchantment removal by diplomacy and you have to steal effects from the color wheel.
Yeah, I've been looking into Oracle too. I l'd love to see it combined with Sensei's Divining Top in order to secure extra land drops. However I'd be reluctant in activating his ability before turn 6 or so, since losing our wincon 6-drops to our own guy would be quite a bummer.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
I feel like I wanna abuse Apex of Power. It's another draw-seven. It's just that we won't be able to work around the steep mana cost, and we can't copy or use it twice either.
Thoughts?
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
Yeah you're probably right. It's just that I don't want you to be ;). I'll find another list for it I guess.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
Trashmaster seems totally worth running but doesn't really seem to require additional goblin support. We make enough goblins still i doubt hell be wanting for targets to chuck at artifacts. And he can always chuck himself. Im just putting him in as is.
Oracle im still torn on. But his effect just wants tokens to turn into cards. Nothing gobbo specific.
Dont really like enchanter's bane. Seems like way too weak of a punishment effect to actually matter. For the enchantments i want/need to kill people will just soak up the small bonus damage and keep them. Itll only get rid of the ones they dont really care about. Or confusion in the ranks, gives opponents an easy sac outlet when they swap for the bane and collaborate
But yea. Good cards, exciting times. Not seeing any particularly strong reasons to return to heavier gobbos.
well, i just removed krenko because of the lack of synergy, i am at the very least thinking of including it again. not saying to bring back goblin recruiter, lightning crafter and the rest of the tribe, at least not yet.
i'm a bit torn as well on enchanter's bane, but, worst case scenario, you could target and sacrifice it to itself, and even if the damage isn't relevant (especially now that it can't be done to planeswalkers), it might be useful for diplomatic purposes.
Isolated Watchtower is not the ramp we wanted, but it is the ramp we needed. and it can't replace scrying sheets, but i would need to lower my non-basic count for sure.
anyone up for some math about the optimal number of basics vs fetches?
Isolated Watchtower is not the ramp we wanted, but it is the ramp we needed. and it can't replace scrying sheets, but i would need to lower my non-basic count for sure.
anyone up for some math about the optimal number of basics vs fetches?
With this in mind I began myself to thinking: in a format where mono-Red already has the short end of the stick, in many cases, and with WotC's attempts at making Red better (maybe not directly, but still), where does Norin fall in the grand scheme of Red being a contender?
I've always loved this deck. If you recall I made a Facebook page giving praise to the unsung messiah we have as our commander (link in sig lmao). But is he simply outclasses by stronger, more-focused decks? Or is Norin meant to be more of a sort of jack-of-all-trades?
Just some things to ponder whilst we have cool toys from c18 to muck around with.
With this in mind I began myself to thinking: in a format where mono-Red already has the short end of the stick, in many cases, and with WotC's attempts at making Red better (maybe not directly, but still), where does Norin fall in the grand scheme of Red being a contender?
I've always loved this deck. If you recall I made a Facebook page giving praise to the unsung messiah we have as our commander (link in sig lmao). But is he simply outclasses by stronger, more-focused decks? Or is Norin meant to be more of a sort of jack-of-all-trades?
Just some things to ponder whilst we have cool toys from c18 to muck around with.
~Lil Kalki
While you are right on all of those counts, those generals are all more threatening and playing any those generals signals to your opponent what your strategy is. Norin lets us fly under the radar and while they are a few cards synonymous with Norin (e.g. Confusion in the Ranks, Genesis Chamber) people don't know how the deck would work by just seeing the general.
you just missed how norin is better than the above at big red control strategy. not because he is a stronger general, but because the other ones are too focused on their own theme to be able to do anything else than either push the table or do nothing.
daretti won't be able to drop something huge in his gy without rising eyebrows. purphoros' player has a target on its head since turn 1. krenko will force the table to wrath, and the coin flip tribal can't be compared to norin because of the presence of blue.
norin instead will come into play turn 1 and give the player the incremental advantage sorely needed by mono-red with almost every other card in the deck. these resources can then be used to talk with other players to show they can be used "for the good of the table" (pandemonium can keep athraxa in check and so on). then, and only then, norin will try to win with purphoros or confusion in the ranks. good luck doing that with the other mono red commanders!
While you are right on all of those counts, those generals are all more threatening and playing any those generals signals to your opponent what your strategy is. Norin lets us fly under the radar and while they are a few cards synonymous with Norin (e.g. Confusion in the Ranks, Genesis Chamber) people don't know how the deck would work by just seeing the general.
you just missed how norin is better than the above at big red control strategy. not because he is a stronger general, but because the other ones are too focused on their own theme to be able to do anything else than either push the table or do nothing.
daretti won't be able to drop something huge in his gy without rising eyebrows. purphoros' player has a target on its head since turn 1. krenko will force the table to wrath, and the coin flip tribal can't be compared to norin because of the presence of blue.
norin instead will come into play turn 1 and give the player the incremental advantage sorely needed by mono-red with almost every other card in the deck. these resources can then be used to talk with other players to show they can be used "for the good of the table" (pandemonium can keep athraxa in check and so on). then, and only then, norin will try to win with purphoros or confusion in the ranks. good luck doing that with the other mono red commanders!
I suppose you're both absolutely in the right here. I assume I've just had a lapse of clarity in the year+ that I've not been playing Norin. While I don't think my third take on the deck is as powerful as I necessarily want it, I think it nails the problem of over-focusing pretty well. Of the mono-R commanders I listed above, I only don't run Krenko... Though I probably could stand to? Idk. I want to prioritize a Crucible of Worlds over that if anything (I only play with cards I own soooo).
Anyway, I am happy to be back in the fold. I miss you lot.
Maybe I'm just jaded by my group's Azusa player who gets it out turn 2 with mana to activate it.
Desecrated Tomb is okay if you're super starved for token creation.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Thoughts?
Nah. But this is good.
I also like the new Loyal Apprentice and Enchanter's Bane.
From m19 the only two goblins worth considering in my mind are goblin trashmaster and dark-dweller oracle.
Trashmaster seems totally worth running but doesn't really seem to require additional goblin support. We make enough goblins still i doubt hell be wanting for targets to chuck at artifacts. And he can always chuck himself. Im just putting him in as is.
Oracle im still torn on. But his effect just wants tokens to turn into cards. Nothing gobbo specific.
New guys - i absolutely love treasure nabber and loyal apprentice. Both going straight in.
Dont really like enchanter's bane. Seems like way too weak of a punishment effect to actually matter. For the enchantments i want/need to kill people will just soak up the small bonus damage and keep them. Itll only get rid of the ones they dont really care about. Or confusion in the ranks, gives opponents an easy sac outlet when they swap for the bane and collaborate
But yea. Good cards, exciting times. Not seeing any particularly strong reasons to return to heavier gobbos.
i'm a bit torn as well on enchanter's bane, but, worst case scenario, you could target and sacrifice it to itself, and even if the damage isn't relevant (especially now that it can't be done to planeswalkers), it might be useful for diplomatic purposes.
edit: forgot to mention how i like Nesting Dragon, especially if goblin bombardment finds its way into my main list.
anyone up for some math about the optimal number of basics vs fetches?
Just under half basics.
I was thinking about it, but I think you really have to dig deep into the big Mana route for it to be worth it. Maybe, though.
1) Daretti, Scrap Savant does Artifacts better than him.
2) Purphoros, God of the Forge does ETBs better than him.
3) Krenko, Mob Boss does Goblin tribal better than him (with Grenzo, Havoc Raiser close behind).
4) Zndrsplt, Eye of Wisdom with Okaun, Eye of Chaos does coin flippery (and, arguably, chaos as a whole, as a result of that) better than him.
With this in mind I began myself to thinking: in a format where mono-Red already has the short end of the stick, in many cases, and with WotC's attempts at making Red better (maybe not directly, but still), where does Norin fall in the grand scheme of Red being a contender?
I've always loved this deck. If you recall I made a Facebook page giving praise to the unsung messiah we have as our commander (link in sig lmao). But is he simply outclasses by stronger, more-focused decks? Or is Norin meant to be more of a sort of jack-of-all-trades?
Just some things to ponder whilst we have cool toys from c18 to muck around with.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
While you are right on all of those counts, those generals are all more threatening and playing any those generals signals to your opponent what your strategy is. Norin lets us fly under the radar and while they are a few cards synonymous with Norin (e.g. Confusion in the Ranks, Genesis Chamber) people don't know how the deck would work by just seeing the general.
daretti won't be able to drop something huge in his gy without rising eyebrows. purphoros' player has a target on its head since turn 1. krenko will force the table to wrath, and the coin flip tribal can't be compared to norin because of the presence of blue.
norin instead will come into play turn 1 and give the player the incremental advantage sorely needed by mono-red with almost every other card in the deck. these resources can then be used to talk with other players to show they can be used "for the good of the table" (pandemonium can keep athraxa in check and so on). then, and only then, norin will try to win with purphoros or confusion in the ranks. good luck doing that with the other mono red commanders!
I suppose you're both absolutely in the right here. I assume I've just had a lapse of clarity in the year+ that I've not been playing Norin. While I don't think my third take on the deck is as powerful as I necessarily want it, I think it nails the problem of over-focusing pretty well. Of the mono-R commanders I listed above, I only don't run Krenko... Though I probably could stand to? Idk. I want to prioritize a Crucible of Worlds over that if anything (I only play with cards I own soooo).
Anyway, I am happy to be back in the fold. I miss you lot.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Granted, as I said earlier it's not the best list ever, and has a budget to work with, but it's pretty fun.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
So, next on the list of "questionable WotC printing moves"...
What all do we think of this? Obviously it doesn't replace Siege-Gang Commander but are we apt to make a cut?
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary