Less effective, yes. Far less effective, no. Mono-red doesn't have a lot of tutors, and it happens to be one of the best.
Has there been anything from the newer sets (Khans block) that is worth putting in here?
Gaka has said it before (I think), but if you need to replace something a good start is the change log. The deck will still run without the recruiter, it just won't be as effective. I ran without one for a while, Until I got my hands on one. Kiki + Recruiter is just brutal.
I noticed that, even against unfair matchups (any tier1 deck at the table for example), the deck can play the police role by playing against the most powerful deck at the table.
in this mindset, i feel the need to have even more fast mana (as it often happened to me to have the answers in hand when a game would end, but with just 1 mana short), i wouldn't know if risking an extraplanar lens would do or if i needed to go for even faster mana such as chrome mox or mox diamond. i wish i had a glove of might, because glove of power doesn't cut it.
i had the idea by noticing how rare it has become to mulligan to lower than 6 cards lately, as most of the cards in the deck are now a game plan by themselves - so i wouldn't care much about the card disadvantage, also, we have the deck which is packing wheels.
speaking of wheels, i will need to test out sensation gorger soon as a n-th wheel.
i would consider cutting goblin settler, as it shines with cloudstone curio/mimic vat, which i cut from the deck for some time now. just too little of an effect even if you needed to ruin just one player's day. with the new tucking rule, i'm in doubt on stingscourger and teferi's puzzle box as well.
don't count out the shaku. besides drums, it's the single mana rock i want to have throughout a game, as it can untap with any legendary permanent, which usually means norin and purphoros. you could also play a squee late game to use it as a mana rock, too, and do so with all the other legendary permanents in the deck. i had a game in which shaku was worth 4 mana (norin, purphoros and a venser stolen with helm).
Well, here's some thoughts for cards I'm not playing in my list: Conjurer's Closet: Win more card. Goblin Recruiter: So slow. Cloudstone Curio: Another win more card IMO. Relic of Progenitus: Not reliable enough in mono-red when you can't tutor it anyway. Teferi's Puzzle Box: Not that good and I was playing that card until really recently. Rummaging Goblin: Another card I was playing until recently, but it's really underwhelming with all the Wheel of Fortune effects this deck packs. Widespread Panic: It hurts Norin more than your non-green opponents most of the time...
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
just wanted to share this play last night:
nothing interesting on the table. a couple of mana rocks, but that's it.
opponent plays aura shards t3. my turn, i slam down an ancient tomb and a confusion in the ranks, steal aura shards and destroy confusion in the ranks with norin etb.
easily one of the best (and shortest) uses of confusion in the ranks I can recall.
That's actually pretty funny. I've actually never considered doing that with Confusion. I have a buddy that plays Trostani and this would be a good way to get rid of shards.... I'll have to keep that one in my pocket.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yeah, happened to me a while back too, Aura Shards with Norin is... good? Hehe.
I think good is an understatement. Why can't we have a red one of these? Blast something every turn, essentially. WOTC, make it happen. Red Aura Shards.
Yeah, happened to me a while back too, Aura Shards with Norin is... good? Hehe.
I think good is an understatement. Why can't we have a red one of these? Blast something every turn, essentially. WOTC, make it happen. Red Aura Shards.
If it happens, enchantments won't be part of the deal, since it's something red can't deal with. Maybe artifacts and non-flying creatures? Still would be nice.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
i don't know if its been mentioned, but Goblin Chirurgeon could be a decent card to save the board state after a board wipe... being that there are a number of goblins
Somewipes just don't care if you have the ability to regenerate or not. Exile is also a problem for Regen. All of these are a thing in my meta. There are more but yeah. Toxic Deluge and it's ilk are also problems. The only saving grace is that we hopefully have a Norin Engine up and can keep going AFTER the board is wiped.
Best confusion target I've ever seen for Norin is Ephara, God of the Polis..good lord, Norin is busted with that. If I could play Norin in Ephara, well, that would be a great day
Somewipes just don't care if you have the ability to regenerate or not. Exile is also a problem for Regen. All of these are a thing in my meta. There are more but yeah. Toxic Deluge and it's ilk are also problems. The only saving grace is that we hopefully have a Norin Engine up and can keep going AFTER the board is wiped.
i don't know if its been mentioned, but Goblin Chirurgeon could be a decent card to save the board state after a board wipe... being that there are a number of goblins
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I ran my build this past weekend for a spree of 4 games with two designated chaos decks.. Boardstates got insane.. Coin flips were happening 3 or more times a turn, two copies of impulsive maneuvers after a warp world allowed me to kill a player with 4 goblins from 40 life.... So much hilarity
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The card should only ever be in a deck that can tutor lands. Here, aside from expedition map, you won't see it that much. If you desperately need that effect, take a look at glaring spotlight , which at the very least can be recurred as an artifact.
The card should only ever be in a deck that can tutor lands. Here, aside from expedition map, you won't see it that much. If you desperately need that effect, take a look at glaring spotlight , which at the very least can be recurred as an artifact.
This. Glaring Spotlight is already a lot better in here. The only deck I run Arcane Lighthouse is Horobi, and once you have read what Horobi does, you understand why.
Also remember that if you get to trade Confusion in the Ranks, it can target creatures with Hexproof controlled by the player controlling Confusion in the Ranks (even if YOU choose the target).
Red has a couple board wipes (I play 4). I don't think Hexproof/Shroud is as much as a problem as indestructible. Gods are a problem, but luckily, they aren't completely broken (besides well-built Purphoros decks maybe). Especially with the new tuck rule.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
speaking of wheels, i will need to test out sensation gorger soon as a n-th wheel.
Can we talk about this for a second? I've never seen this guy before. This guy seems awesome, why aren't we playing him? I just put in Commune with Lavabut now I kinda want to cut it for him. It's a wheel on a stick that meets all our tutoring requirements. I should probably do some goblin math to see how often it will actually be a wheel but Idk, Initial impression is that it seems solid.
speaking of wheels, i will need to test out sensation gorger soon as a n-th wheel.
Can we talk about this for a second? I've never seen this guy before. This guy seems awesome, why aren't we playing him? I just put in Commune with Lavabut now I kinda want to cut it for him. It's a wheel on a stick that meets all our tutoring requirements. I should probably do some goblin math to see how often it will actually be a wheel but Idk, Initial impression is that it seems solid.
I considered it previously in my more tribal oriented list, but it's definitely not on the same power level as Commune with Lava. It's tutorable, yes, but with Imperial Recruiter and Moggcatcher. Since Moggcatcher usually wins the game and Imperial Recruiter can get Moggcatcher, I would probably never tutor Sensation Gorger, which leaves it as a worse Chandra Ablaze.
It's still a good card though, but if you list is more tribal oriented like mine, you won't tutor this with Recruiter/Moggcatcher, you have better creatures/goblins that actually win the game.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
@buddha84 yea that's why I said I have to do the math. Rummager is definitely better to me because its filtering for just me on demand. And personally I love seeing rummager, I've gotten so much use out of him in this deck. I like deal broker better but it's not as easy to find him. I'm not sure if gorger is good enough I was just commenting on the fact that we could possibly add a new tool to our toolbox, we don't have a tutorable wheel.
@dnLL The problem with that logic is you might as well cut the whole toolbox then. If you are only ever looking for guys that win the game then what's the point of playing Goblin Settler, Duplicant, Goblin Welder, Magus of the Moon, Manic Vandal, Tuktuk Scrapper, Outrage Shaman, Goblin Assassin, etc. None of those guys are really going to win you the game, they're all situation dependent tools we have available. You never know what situation is going to crop up in EDH so you have to be prepared with a wide variety of tools to handle it. A wheel effect isn't a tool in our toolbox currently but its one I wished was before. I'm leaning away from him after going through the list more only because I don't think he'll end up being a reliable enough wheel unless you get him with Goblin Recruiter but he's still definitely interesting.
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Has there been anything from the newer sets (Khans block) that is worth putting in here?
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
in this mindset, i feel the need to have even more fast mana (as it often happened to me to have the answers in hand when a game would end, but with just 1 mana short), i wouldn't know if risking an extraplanar lens would do or if i needed to go for even faster mana such as chrome mox or mox diamond. i wish i had a glove of might, because glove of power doesn't cut it.
i had the idea by noticing how rare it has become to mulligan to lower than 6 cards lately, as most of the cards in the deck are now a game plan by themselves - so i wouldn't care much about the card disadvantage, also, we have the deck which is packing wheels.
speaking of wheels, i will need to test out sensation gorger soon as a n-th wheel.
i would consider cutting goblin settler, as it shines with cloudstone curio/mimic vat, which i cut from the deck for some time now. just too little of an effect even if you needed to ruin just one player's day. with the new tucking rule, i'm in doubt on stingscourger and teferi's puzzle box as well.
don't count out the shaku. besides drums, it's the single mana rock i want to have throughout a game, as it can untap with any legendary permanent, which usually means norin and purphoros. you could also play a squee late game to use it as a mana rock, too, and do so with all the other legendary permanents in the deck. i had a game in which shaku was worth 4 mana (norin, purphoros and a venser stolen with helm).
Well, here's some thoughts for cards I'm not playing in my list:
Conjurer's Closet: Win more card.
Goblin Recruiter: So slow.
Cloudstone Curio: Another win more card IMO.
Relic of Progenitus: Not reliable enough in mono-red when you can't tutor it anyway.
Teferi's Puzzle Box: Not that good and I was playing that card until really recently.
Rummaging Goblin: Another card I was playing until recently, but it's really underwhelming with all the Wheel of Fortune effects this deck packs.
Widespread Panic: It hurts Norin more than your non-green opponents most of the time...
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
nothing interesting on the table. a couple of mana rocks, but that's it.
opponent plays aura shards t3. my turn, i slam down an ancient tomb and a confusion in the ranks, steal aura shards and destroy confusion in the ranks with norin etb.
easily one of the best (and shortest) uses of confusion in the ranks I can recall.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
If it happens, enchantments won't be part of the deal, since it's something red can't deal with. Maybe artifacts and non-flying creatures? Still would be nice.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
[EDH In Development] Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Queen Marchesa | Ruhan of the Fomori | Yahenni, Undying Partisan
[EDH Retired] Ertai, The Corrupted | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Tariel, Reckoner of Souls | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
[Modern] Stuffy Doll Combo Burn | Demigod of Revenge
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I think the situation is pretty well summarized. I have a big emphasis on the goblin subtheme and would never play Goblin Chirurgeon. There are better goblins out there, even if you play Blasphemous Act, Mogg Infestation and Chain Reaction.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
No.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This. Glaring Spotlight is already a lot better in here. The only deck I run Arcane Lighthouse is Horobi, and once you have read what Horobi does, you understand why.
Also remember that if you get to trade Confusion in the Ranks, it can target creatures with Hexproof controlled by the player controlling Confusion in the Ranks (even if YOU choose the target).
Red has a couple board wipes (I play 4). I don't think Hexproof/Shroud is as much as a problem as indestructible. Gods are a problem, but luckily, they aren't completely broken (besides well-built Purphoros decks maybe). Especially with the new tuck rule.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Can we talk about this for a second? I've never seen this guy before. This guy seems awesome, why aren't we playing him? I just put in Commune with Lavabut now I kinda want to cut it for him. It's a wheel on a stick that meets all our tutoring requirements. I should probably do some goblin math to see how often it will actually be a wheel but Idk, Initial impression is that it seems solid.
I considered it previously in my more tribal oriented list, but it's definitely not on the same power level as Commune with Lava. It's tutorable, yes, but with Imperial Recruiter and Moggcatcher. Since Moggcatcher usually wins the game and Imperial Recruiter can get Moggcatcher, I would probably never tutor Sensation Gorger, which leaves it as a worse Chandra Ablaze.
It's still a good card though, but if you list is more tribal oriented like mine, you won't tutor this with Recruiter/Moggcatcher, you have better creatures/goblins that actually win the game.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
@dnLL The problem with that logic is you might as well cut the whole toolbox then. If you are only ever looking for guys that win the game then what's the point of playing Goblin Settler, Duplicant, Goblin Welder, Magus of the Moon, Manic Vandal, Tuktuk Scrapper, Outrage Shaman, Goblin Assassin, etc. None of those guys are really going to win you the game, they're all situation dependent tools we have available. You never know what situation is going to crop up in EDH so you have to be prepared with a wide variety of tools to handle it. A wheel effect isn't a tool in our toolbox currently but its one I wished was before. I'm leaning away from him after going through the list more only because I don't think he'll end up being a reliable enough wheel unless you get him with Goblin Recruiter but he's still definitely interesting.