The only thing I'm worrying about is the hate that could be generated by a half purphoros. I fear it won't be half the hate, somehow (people tend to remember deaths by purphoros, I suppose).
Great way to keep planeswalkers in check, too!
It will probably bring nearly as much hate as Purphoros without being indestructible and as quick, but hey, it's Norin plan A, some people do actually like the fact that games tend to be quicker with a great Norin Pilot since we can do 20 damage to everyone in a game.
I will start to focus more and more on plan A (not saying I will play Vigilante Justice though, it's too narrow for 4 mana I think).
Imagine a turn 1 Drum, turn 2 Norin + Chamber, turn 3 Impact Tremors + Skullclamp + equip. That's pretty much game over if you untap with everything.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yea I've just been too busy to figure out what to cut but I'm definitely putting it in. I mean yea its not as good as purphoros but were still talking about a card that if played on turn 2 will have hit your opponents for 16 to 20 total damage by the time you could play purphoros on turn 4. And that's just from Norin.
Descent of the dragons
Impact Tremors
Lightning Berserker
Sarkhan's Triumph(with a good dragon target like Steel Hellkite or Spawn of Thraxes)
Volcanic Vision
Have had a lot of fun with Norin and the synergy of the deck is just crazy. But anyway I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to play test these new cards that you guys expressed interest in. How have they been working out for you and do you find yourself missing the cards they replaced?
Impact tremors is a staple now for me , still analizing the power level of commune with lava and dragons descent; this last one really surprised me so far, winning a lots of games in a nasty way
When i finnally settle my 99 i will post my updated list here
Descent of the Dragons definitely seems like a very flexible card, acting as multi spot removal as well as potential buffs to your own side of the field. Mogg Infestation can only do one or the other, although it does get by hexproof/shroud. I can certainly see arguments for each and might even run both. I feel as though there is enough artifact removal already built in the deck that maybe Descent of the Dragons could take out aftershock as the flexible spot remover card?
Descent of the dragons is definitely a strong choice... Outpost Siege is really solid in the deck as well, working as card advantage or a kill card. Impact tremors is definitely a mainstay in the deck.. I like the moon effects in the deck, but I am really thinking of dropping them, I would not be able to effectively tutor for then unless I imperial recruiter for magus, and they can shut someone out of the game, which is not what I am looking for I suppose.
Descent of the Dragons
I didn't try it because I don't like it, I don't see how it replaces Mogg Infestation because Infestation gives you more creatures for ETB/LTB triggers (like Goblin Bombardment with Outpost Siege) and it can't target hexproof/shroud creatures your opponents control (Sigarda is a real pain for Norin, Aura Shards is a real nightmare). Also, giving 4/4s that you can't block can be a pain too.
So I'd really like to hear about your positive experiences with the card, how you won games with it over say Mogg Infestation or Aftershock (the later is probably the card I'd cut to add Descent of the Dragons). It's also 6 mana.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
dnLL, i still doesn't find the spot for Descent Dragons. I know i want to play it in my 99, but don't know where. Mogg Infestation and Aftershock are not going anywhere and i really don't think that the new card replaces any of these 2. I think that it might be time for Iron Myr to go, but don't know for sure. What's your opinion on the small Myr ?
dnLL, i still doesn't find the spot for Descent Dragons. I know i want to play it in my 99, but don't know where. Mogg Infestation and Aftershock are not going anywhere and i really don't think that the new card replaces any of these 2. I think that it might be time for Iron Myr to go, but don't know for sure. What's your opinion on the small Myr ?
There are a couple of things to take into account here. A 3-cmc artifact that taps for 2 has more value than a 2-cmc artifact that taps for 1. Creatures are also more vulnerable than non-creature artifacts. Also, looking at my curve right now, from 1 to 6 mana, I have respectively 8, 8, 12, 18, 10 and 5 spells. I can pretty much say that the best cards in this deck are in the 4-cmc and 5-cmc slots, with a couple of 6-cmc slots. 2-CMC ramp like Iron Myr gets me to 4 mana on turn 3, and I have 18 spells at 4 mana. That's huge. Pandemonium, Outpost Siege and Aftershock can all be strong turn 4. Solemn Simulacrum and Gauntlet of Might are pretty much the best turn 3 you can have with this deck. When playing 1v1, Goblin Settler can be added to this list. 3-CMC ramp like Worn Powerstone gets me to 6 mana on turn 4. I can pretty much play everything in my deck this way. Grinning Ignus, Honor-Worn Shaku and Springleaf Drum are the only other ramp I run, besides the 2 Gauntlets (mana doublers). Drum is even better than any 2-CMC ramp because of Norin, but we still need the first 2 turns to set it up properly (since we can't play both Norin and Drum on turn 1). Shaku... okay, this is SLIGHTLY better than Worn Powerstone. Grinning Ignus is a basically a delayed Dark Ritual with the possibility of having a lot of ETB/LTB triggers.
I think this deck likes to ramp. But we are playing mono-red. We don't ramp as much as green. But we still do.
Now that I established that we want to play the 4-5-6 cmc spells as fast as possible (or even a turn 6 Warp World after a turn 2 Genesis Chamber can be game-winning, you know), I don't think I can remove any of the ramp I'm actually playing.
Finally, if Worn Powerstone is more valuable than Palladium Myr, why isn't Fire Diamond over Iron Myr? 3 things to consider. 3 tiny details: Anger, Myr Battlesphere and Kiki-Jiki. It can make a difference, and in the case of a 2-CMC ramp (for +1 mana), I think it's worth the risk (while it's not for a 3-CMC +2 mana ramp).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
About the Manastones: People always forget Fellwar Stone. I've been playing it for a while now and the chance that none of your opponents is red is really low in a multiplayer match with about 3 opponents. So in the normal case it's a strictly better Fire Diamond. In the worst case it's a Fractured Powerstone and I would even play the Powerstone over the Diamond, simply for having "haste".
There are a really high number of cases when I'm playing 1v1 games where my opponent doesn't have a color-producing land after turn 1 or 2, which makes Fellwar Stone a 2-CMC artifact with no text. That's enough for me to never ever play this card.
It's more vulnerable. But that's the point, if your opponent uses spot removal on a 2-CMC artifact that ramps for 1, that's fine with me. If it goes into a board wipe late game, that's fine too. The 3-CMC artifact that ramps for 2 is not worth the extra vulnerability IMO though, which is why I run Worn Powerstone over Palladium Myr.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This deck seems really cool to build, but there are some extremely expensive cards (money wise) in here (Mana Crypt, Gauntlet of Might, Imperial Recruiter are the big suspects). Would people know of more budget options for these cards?
You can "replace" mana crypt with fellwar stone, the beta gauntlet for gauntlet of power or caged sun, and the recruiter cant be replaced.
Is the Recruiter essential for the deck to run (like will it far less effective if I do not have one)?
I just want to know before I try to assemble this deck. I have some of the more valuable cards, and some of the others are not terribly expensive, so I can deal with that.
This is also for me to have an alternate multiplayer deck than my current few:
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
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Great way to keep planeswalkers in check, too!
I will start to focus more and more on plan A (not saying I will play Vigilante Justice though, it's too narrow for 4 mana I think).
Imagine a turn 1 Drum, turn 2 Norin + Chamber, turn 3 Impact Tremors + Skullclamp + equip. That's pretty much game over if you untap with everything.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Really looking forward to see what Gaka thinks of these new cards.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Norin the Wary (BRB) R
Blind Seer (Hose Everything) U
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy (Double Dipping) UBR
Borborygmos Enraged (Crush Mountains, Eat Forests) GR
Kresh the Bloodbraided (Get Wild) GRB
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Test Your Math) WUR
Toshiro Umezawa (Instant Reanimation) B
Dralnu, Lich Lord (Mill then Will) UB
Rakdos the Defiler (Death at any Cost) BR
Iwamori of the Open Fist (Wheel and Deal) G
Crovax, Ascendant Hero (Balancing Eggs) W
I'm surprised to see no one seems interested enough in this card to actually comment on this thread.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Legacy: UBRG Czech Pile, WWW Death & Taxes, many other things
Modern: UBR Grixis, RWG Burn, UR UR Storm, BBB 8 Rack, whatever other control deck I can force
Multiplayer EDH: RR Norin the Wary, UU Barrin, Master Wizard, UB Wrexial, the Risen Deep, GR Borborygmos, Enraged
Working my brain off in the cuts and improvements of the deck
Descent of the dragons
Impact Tremors
Lightning Berserker
Sarkhan's Triumph(with a good dragon target like Steel Hellkite or Spawn of Thraxes)
Volcanic Vision
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Have had a lot of fun with Norin and the synergy of the deck is just crazy. But anyway I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to play test these new cards that you guys expressed interest in. How have they been working out for you and do you find yourself missing the cards they replaced?
Impact tremors is a staple now for me , still analizing the power level of commune with lava and dragons descent; this last one really surprised me so far, winning a lots of games in a nasty way
When i finnally settle my 99 i will post my updated list here
I didn't try it because I don't like it, I don't see how it replaces Mogg Infestation because Infestation gives you more creatures for ETB/LTB triggers (like Goblin Bombardment with Outpost Siege) and it can't target hexproof/shroud creatures your opponents control (Sigarda is a real pain for Norin, Aura Shards is a real nightmare). Also, giving 4/4s that you can't block can be a pain too.
So I'd really like to hear about your positive experiences with the card, how you won games with it over say Mogg Infestation or Aftershock (the later is probably the card I'd cut to add Descent of the Dragons). It's also 6 mana.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It honestly has been good so far.
I did a review once of Iron Myr, Palladium Myr, Fire Diamond and Worn Powerstone and the motivation and the reasoning behind playing Iron Myr and Worn Powerstone. Why not the other way around? Can't find the post where I compared the 4 cards.
There are a couple of things to take into account here. A 3-cmc artifact that taps for 2 has more value than a 2-cmc artifact that taps for 1. Creatures are also more vulnerable than non-creature artifacts. Also, looking at my curve right now, from 1 to 6 mana, I have respectively 8, 8, 12, 18, 10 and 5 spells. I can pretty much say that the best cards in this deck are in the 4-cmc and 5-cmc slots, with a couple of 6-cmc slots. 2-CMC ramp like Iron Myr gets me to 4 mana on turn 3, and I have 18 spells at 4 mana. That's huge. Pandemonium, Outpost Siege and Aftershock can all be strong turn 4. Solemn Simulacrum and Gauntlet of Might are pretty much the best turn 3 you can have with this deck. When playing 1v1, Goblin Settler can be added to this list. 3-CMC ramp like Worn Powerstone gets me to 6 mana on turn 4. I can pretty much play everything in my deck this way. Grinning Ignus, Honor-Worn Shaku and Springleaf Drum are the only other ramp I run, besides the 2 Gauntlets (mana doublers). Drum is even better than any 2-CMC ramp because of Norin, but we still need the first 2 turns to set it up properly (since we can't play both Norin and Drum on turn 1). Shaku... okay, this is SLIGHTLY better than Worn Powerstone. Grinning Ignus is a basically a delayed Dark Ritual with the possibility of having a lot of ETB/LTB triggers.
I think this deck likes to ramp. But we are playing mono-red. We don't ramp as much as green. But we still do.
Now that I established that we want to play the 4-5-6 cmc spells as fast as possible (or even a turn 6 Warp World after a turn 2 Genesis Chamber can be game-winning, you know), I don't think I can remove any of the ramp I'm actually playing.
Finally, if Worn Powerstone is more valuable than Palladium Myr, why isn't Fire Diamond over Iron Myr? 3 things to consider. 3 tiny details: Anger, Myr Battlesphere and Kiki-Jiki. It can make a difference, and in the case of a 2-CMC ramp (for +1 mana), I think it's worth the risk (while it's not for a 3-CMC +2 mana ramp).
Edit: I also run Solemn Simulacrum, Koth of the Hammer, Terrain Generator and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, which could all be considered ramp but I put those cards in a different category.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Definitely a good way to use it, but it's as good as Sign in Blood (draw 2 for 1 card). Except when you have Homeward Path or Confusion in the Ranks hehe.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
There are a really high number of cases when I'm playing 1v1 games where my opponent doesn't have a color-producing land after turn 1 or 2, which makes Fellwar Stone a 2-CMC artifact with no text. That's enough for me to never ever play this card.
Iron Myr is starting to add up corner cases. Skullclamp, Anger, Pandemonium, Outpost Siege, Purphoros, Warstorm Surge, Impact Tremors, Myr Battlesphere, Genesis Chamber, Kiki-Jiki (did happen to me a couple of times to need the extra mana), Feldon (that however never happened), Confusion in the Ranks, Goblin Bombardment, Ogre Battledriver, Trading Post. This is what the extra super type changes. If my count is good, that's 15 corner cases. I wouldn't call that a corner case anymore.
It's more vulnerable. But that's the point, if your opponent uses spot removal on a 2-CMC artifact that ramps for 1, that's fine with me. If it goes into a board wipe late game, that's fine too. The 3-CMC artifact that ramps for 2 is not worth the extra vulnerability IMO though, which is why I run Worn Powerstone over Palladium Myr.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Is the Recruiter essential for the deck to run (like will it far less effective if I do not have one)?
I just want to know before I try to assemble this deck. I have some of the more valuable cards, and some of the others are not terribly expensive, so I can deal with that.
This is also for me to have an alternate multiplayer deck than my current few:
Mogis, God of Slaughter Group Slug
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury (The usual green ramp and stomp with an elf sub theme)
Captain Sisay Which is more of my 1v1 deck which is primarily Maverick.
Less effective, yes. Far less effective, no. Mono-red doesn't have a lot of tutors, and it happens to be one of the best.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.