What are you all thinking of removing for him? I thought of Norin as well but want sure what to pull for him. I'm running Koth for ritual ramp already.
What are you all thinking of removing for him? I thought of Norin as well but want sure what to pull for him. I'm running Koth for ritual ramp already.
Not sure what I should take out for him, but I'm running the same build as Gaka. A while back he said the following:
The curse was discussed some pages ago - Racketeer took the cake then, because the critter was more useful than the potential to filter.
In any case, it's main purpose is filler. With every new set that comes out, he's near the top of the chopping list. Fun value is usually better than a loot on a body.
So with that, I will probably try out Mana Ogre in the Viashino Racketeer slot. Just to test it out. But outside of that I'm not sure what I want to remove for Treasonous Ogre.
My list is similar to Gaka's build , but with a little more artifact hate because my meta is flooded with artifact ramp.
Recently I been testing with Liquimetal Coating and I must say the card is an MVP .
It has great synergy with the deck and open possibilities for a lot of random stuff to happen like:
1-turning a planeswalker in to an artifact and copying it with sculpting steel .
2-making any card on the field a legal target for Goblin Welder
3-giving red ability to destroy anything once you turn it in to an artifact.
4-Land D every turn for 1 in conjunction with Gorilla Shaman
No more activity down here ? No Conspiracy updates ? No card discussion ?
About Treasonous Ogre, i tested it and i must say that its not THAT good, only in some specific scenarios it shines, but overall is a regular (to bad) card.
I'm currently testing in 1vs1 matches Mana Clash. The card is hilarious and won me several matches against slow decks (control - combo/control)
No more activity down here ? No Conspiracy updates ? No card discussion ?
About Treasonous Ogre, i tested it and i must say that its not THAT good, only in some specific scenarios it shines, but overall is a regular (to bad) card.
I'm currently testing in 1vs1 matches Mana Clash. The card is hilarious and won me several matches against slow decks (control - combo/control)
Honestly these past few sets haven't had much of anything for Norin to play with.
There are a couple fringe case cards, but nothing that makes me go "ooh, that definitely belongs in here."
The interesting phase for new red cards has moved away from weird effects and ETB triggers, and moved once more towards combination damage spells and unwieldy creatures.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm just happy to see Norin back on the first page... was getting back there... way back there.
Nothing terribly cool spoiled in the new core set aside from the Aggressive Mining and only for possible trade away shenanigans, but it's meh before that.
Been a rough go for Norin at me table. My friend has been running Marath and it's just been impossible to keep the Wary one alive...
teferi's puzzle box is getting the axe for me. Besides failing to be able to play it when i have more than 4 cards, I have a fellow player who uses Spirit of the Labyrinth in his Zur deck, and this combo gives him several turns' worth of time to close the game.
has wurmcoil engine already been discussed here? it's a decent card by itself, and bonkers with either pandemonium or goblin welder (and functional copies).
You could always just not cast it when zur is a possibility, that way your not drowned In CA, and it has been discussed, some play it, it has good interactions with a variety of other cards.
teferi's puzzle box is getting the axe for me. Besides failing to be able to play it when i have more than 4 cards, I have a fellow player who uses Spirit of the Labyrinth in his Zur deck, and this combo gives him several turns' worth of time to close the game.
has wurmcoil engine already been discussed here? it's a decent card by itself, and bonkers with either pandemonium or goblin welder (and functional copies).
Wurmcoil engine is just a bad EDH card. It's a ground beater that doesn't fly in for damage and it only gives you three creatures. Myr battlesphere does everything wurmcoil does, but better. You know those genesis chamber myrs? Yep yep :D. It's 8 power off pandemonius and surge, but you get to snipe utility bears better and it's better with purphoros. The 4/7 colorless body is great at blocking sworded critters too.
A large percentage of the time, too large, it's not a mana source. In those cases, only with a moon does it generate anything, and in that case why not run another snow-mountain and make Scrying Sheets slightly better?
It can generate some explosive turns, but this isn't a big-mana red deck, and our explosive turns generally come later in the game. At that point, the possible extra two mana isn't going to be as noticeable as a stabler early game.
On a more practical note, I have no interest in buying a workshop.
teferi's puzzle box is getting the axe for me. Besides failing to be able to play it when i have more than 4 cards, I have a fellow player who uses Spirit of the Labyrinth in his Zur deck, and this combo gives him several turns' worth of time to close the game.
has wurmcoil engine already been discussed here? it's a decent card by itself, and bonkers with either pandemonium or goblin welder (and functional copies).
Wurmcoil engine is just a bad EDH card. It's a ground beater that doesn't fly in for damage and it only gives you three creatures. Myr battlesphere does everything wurmcoil does, but better. You know those genesis chamber myrs? Yep yep :D. It's 8 power off pandemonius and surge, but you get to snipe utility bears better and it's better with purphoros. The 4/7 colorless body is great at blocking sworded critters too.
On Puzzle Box - while it has a lot of really nice interactions both with your own deck and others, it's perfectly fine to cut it if the resident Zur player is consistently tutoring for Spirit of the Stop It, Stop It Now. Of course, in this case you'll be wanting to find an anti-zur card, or at least anti-spirit, since this is the primary reason for the release of Pandora's Fun Time. Flame Slash, or Parch are great burn options, if you need to kill the general. Flametongue Kavu, if you want to burn them as well as triggering various Norin effects.
Alternatively, take your pick of the dozens of other weird and interesting artifacts and red cards. You know your meta better than I do!
On wurmcoil - It's a battle between it and Myr Battlesphere for the large, fantastic artifact creatures. I'm personally a fan of the Myr for all of the listed reasons, but sometimes you really need the lifelink. It's up to how confident you are in your myr creating abilities.
It's the first realistic card we've had in awhile! But... as the current list stands, it's not useful. We don't run many activated ability artifacts relative to a core that he would require. We're not guaranteed to get his ability off, and it's not necessary to have. He's cool, but.. not quite there.
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():
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
[quote from="osieorb18 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217201-norin-the-wary-heads-i-win-tails-you-lose?comment=2017"]
On Puzzle Box - while it has a lot of really nice interactions both with your own deck and others, it's perfectly fine to cut it if the resident Zur player is consistently tutoring for Spirit of the Stop It, Stop It Now. Of course, in this case you'll be wanting to find an anti-zur card, or at least anti-spirit, since this is the primary reason for the release of Pandora's Fun Time. Flame Slash, or Parch are great burn options, if you need to kill the general. Flametongue Kavu, if you want to burn them as well as triggering various Norin effects.
...
That being said, if this is the advent of more red draw spells, I'm totally down.
i went as far as removing mind's eye because i usually never lasted so long to get some use from it, so that's the card that's coming in.
i'm trying taurean mauler, which is a really large goblin, as well.
i still feel the need for some creature based removal, so far the best i can think of is goblin sharpshooter and basilisk collar, but i don't want to put them in as they are terrible on their own. jaya ballard, task mage maybe (considering my zur infested meta)?
as for the new draw spell, i fear wizard's fearful of looting effects, as they can be crucial in dropping a t2 griselbrand in modern (for example). i can't foresee anything good for red draw spells for commander in general.
i went as far as removing mind's eye because i usually never lasted so long to get some use from it, so that's the card that's coming in.
i'm trying taurean mauler, which is a really large goblin, as well.
i still feel the need for some creature based removal, so far the best i can think of is goblin sharpshooter and basilisk collar, but i don't want to put them in as they are terrible on their own. jaya ballard, task mage maybe (considering my zur infested meta)?
as for the new draw spell, i fear wizard's fearful of looting effects, as they can be crucial in dropping a t2 griselbrand in modern (for example). i can't foresee anything good for red draw spells for commander in general.
I've never been a huge fan of the mauler. Either it becomes gigantic and wins the game, or it dies to a random wrath and could have been more useful as an ETB effect. But that's an entirely meta-based decision.
For critter removal - Sharpshooter has always been on the verge of being played in the deck. It's truly a fantastic way to machine gun down tokens and chip your way through bigger ones using some shenanigans. Collar is far too useless without the goblin to be put in the deck despite the combo. Unlike Sharpshooter, it doesn't do anything unless you fulfill the requirement to have a burn engine of some sort out. We've precious few.
Jaya Ballard is awesome and you should definitely try her out. Killing off blue permanents and the occasional burn is not to be underestimated. Get a squee or Crucble going, and suddenly Jaya is one of the scarier removal spells available. She's great against Zur.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
still experimenting here. i'm currently playing a multiplayer commander league at my LGS, which allows use of sideboards. i've been using burning wish since a long time (if interested i can list the wishboard and reasoning behind the card choices), and i'm rather amazed at the overall usefullness of anarchy. enchantment removal is usually not expected from red, but this can fetch everyone by surprise. there hasn't been a game where i had an active norin+purphoros engine that didn't got detention sphered or oblivion ringed by someone around the table.
what do you think?
Greetings! I'm currently working on an update to my decklist so i'm not as active in the forums as few months ago, but as i soon as i finish with that i will post it to discuss
About the wishboard you can do a lot of thinks, of course Anarchy work in heavy white enviroments as Jaya would work on heavy blue, it all depends on your meta. I always use 1 or 2 slot for meta purposes.
I'm currently testing 10 different cards to make an upgrade to my Norin list, here's the list of cards:
- Goblin Warrens: Goblin tokens, inevitability.
- Burn at the Stake: Meh, it could be a finisher and do tons of damage ... I don't know, it just caught my attention in the past and now that i'm testing cards i wish to give this one a chance.
- Heat Shimmer: Copy a creature until end of turn. This card could give us the capacity to "oops i win" situations (stealing wincons, combos, etc)
- Jokulhaups: Reset button. This is like with Burn at the Stake to me, it just deserves a chance even if i think that it wouldnt get the spot.
- Avalanche Raiders: My replacement to Goblin Settler. I'm from Argentina and the Settler is imposible to get here, my parents travel to Spain and there were no Goblin Settler in LGS there neither x_X
- Keldon Firebombers: It was this or Epicenter. Mass destroyland win games in this deck. The Firebombers got a lot of advantages over Epicenter (being a creature, leaving a few lands online).
- Myr Battlesphere: The fattie of the deck. I used to play this before and with Purphoros it only get better, i just need to figure out if i want a fattie or not.
- Druidic Satchel: A very versatile artifact. Can ramp, can generate tokens, can win life. All relevant effects to us and at a very cheap cost.
- Eldrazi Monument: Well, the monument. Steroids for our minions, but the most important thing: the indestructible clause. If that enough to win the spot ? I don't know, but i definitely try it.
- Smokestack: The good ol' Smokestack. Giving the same amount of fear and headaches to players since 1998. This is the card that makes the deck serious, and in my testing wins me a LOT of games. This one with a Genesis Chamber online clear your oponents board in just a few turns. You need to decide if you want to leave the fun behind or not, but definitely worth further testing in the deck.
I'm giving goblin kaboomist a try. The artifacts he generates are nice with trading post and confusion in the ranks. Plus, they really add up. They stick around after the goblin dies too. My meta is rampant with stuff like hero of bladehold and small beaters.
I quickly removed smokestack after a few games. there is no right moment to use it: you have a token producer out and you play it, everyone turns on you. it's early game, no sac fodder, everyone turns on you from then on anyway. you topdeck it late game, everyone sacrifices whatever they like (to their advantage often).
i think gaka chose tangle wire to achieve the same effect and avoid the hate. the card is annoying, and yes, we're not as vulnerable to it as other decks, but it's a problem to the table that it's solved by itself. now, if you also have goblin welder that's another story.. i just don't use it currently because of the lack of power late game.
might i point out viashino heretic for everyone running imperial recruiter? it's not just a repeatable artifact removal, it's also a damage dealer. that blightsteel colossus? yes it will survive, but good luck trying to win with 12 impending damage if its owner attacks me. i used it recently to deal 7 to close out a game, removing a spine of ish sah.
i'm also running possibility storm, both for the pseudo-lockout and for the fun factor. i'd need a good red instant to pair with chaos warp, so far i'm running with punishing fire to get some reuse (it was initially a lightning bolt, but i suppose the reusability trumps the 1 damage). any suggestions?
Not sure what I should take out for him, but I'm running the same build as Gaka. A while back he said the following:
So with that, I will probably try out Mana Ogre in the Viashino Racketeer slot. Just to test it out. But outside of that I'm not sure what I want to remove for Treasonous Ogre.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Recently I been testing with Liquimetal Coating and I must say the card is an MVP .
It has great synergy with the deck and open possibilities for a lot of random stuff to happen like:
1-turning a planeswalker in to an artifact and copying it with sculpting steel .
2-making any card on the field a legal target for Goblin Welder
3-giving red ability to destroy anything once you turn it in to an artifact.
4-Land D every turn for 1 in conjunction with Gorilla Shaman
About Treasonous Ogre, i tested it and i must say that its not THAT good, only in some specific scenarios it shines, but overall is a regular (to bad) card.
I'm currently testing in 1vs1 matches Mana Clash. The card is hilarious and won me several matches against slow decks (control - combo/control)
Honestly these past few sets haven't had much of anything for Norin to play with.
There are a couple fringe case cards, but nothing that makes me go "ooh, that definitely belongs in here."
The interesting phase for new red cards has moved away from weird effects and ETB triggers, and moved once more towards combination damage spells and unwieldy creatures.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Nothing terribly cool spoiled in the new core set aside from the Aggressive Mining and only for possible trade away shenanigans, but it's meh before that.
Been a rough go for Norin at me table. My friend has been running Marath and it's just been impossible to keep the Wary one alive...
Keeping the faith, though.
has wurmcoil engine already been discussed here? it's a decent card by itself, and bonkers with either pandemonium or goblin welder (and functional copies).
Wurmcoil engine is just a bad EDH card. It's a ground beater that doesn't fly in for damage and it only gives you three creatures. Myr battlesphere does everything wurmcoil does, but better. You know those genesis chamber myrs? Yep yep :D. It's 8 power off pandemonius and surge, but you get to snipe utility bears better and it's better with purphoros. The 4/7 colorless body is great at blocking sworded critters too.
What do we think of the new Ogre?
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
A large percentage of the time, too large, it's not a mana source. In those cases, only with a moon does it generate anything, and in that case why not run another snow-mountain and make Scrying Sheets slightly better?
It can generate some explosive turns, but this isn't a big-mana red deck, and our explosive turns generally come later in the game. At that point, the possible extra two mana isn't going to be as noticeable as a stabler early game.
On a more practical note, I have no interest in buying a workshop.
Nothing interesting.
On Puzzle Box - while it has a lot of really nice interactions both with your own deck and others, it's perfectly fine to cut it if the resident Zur player is consistently tutoring for Spirit of the Stop It, Stop It Now. Of course, in this case you'll be wanting to find an anti-zur card, or at least anti-spirit, since this is the primary reason for the release of Pandora's Fun Time. Flame Slash, or Parch are great burn options, if you need to kill the general. Flametongue Kavu, if you want to burn them as well as triggering various Norin effects.
Alternatively, take your pick of the dozens of other weird and interesting artifacts and red cards. You know your meta better than I do!
On wurmcoil - It's a battle between it and Myr Battlesphere for the large, fantastic artifact creatures. I'm personally a fan of the Myr for all of the listed reasons, but sometimes you really need the lifelink. It's up to how confident you are in your myr creating abilities.
It's not great for us. Early game it's irrelevant, late game it's not what the deck is looking for.
That being said, if this is the advent of more red draw spells, I'm totally down.
It's the first realistic card we've had in awhile! But... as the current list stands, it's not useful. We don't run many activated ability artifacts relative to a core that he would require. We're not guaranteed to get his ability off, and it's not necessary to have. He's cool, but.. not quite there.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
i went as far as removing mind's eye because i usually never lasted so long to get some use from it, so that's the card that's coming in.
i'm trying taurean mauler, which is a really large goblin, as well.
i still feel the need for some creature based removal, so far the best i can think of is goblin sharpshooter and basilisk collar, but i don't want to put them in as they are terrible on their own. jaya ballard, task mage maybe (considering my zur infested meta)?
as for the new draw spell, i fear wizard's fearful of looting effects, as they can be crucial in dropping a t2 griselbrand in modern (for example). i can't foresee anything good for red draw spells for commander in general.
I've never been a huge fan of the mauler. Either it becomes gigantic and wins the game, or it dies to a random wrath and could have been more useful as an ETB effect. But that's an entirely meta-based decision.
For critter removal - Sharpshooter has always been on the verge of being played in the deck. It's truly a fantastic way to machine gun down tokens and chip your way through bigger ones using some shenanigans. Collar is far too useless without the goblin to be put in the deck despite the combo. Unlike Sharpshooter, it doesn't do anything unless you fulfill the requirement to have a burn engine of some sort out. We've precious few.
Jaya Ballard is awesome and you should definitely try her out. Killing off blue permanents and the occasional burn is not to be underestimated. Get a squee or Crucble going, and suddenly Jaya is one of the scarier removal spells available. She's great against Zur.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
what do you think?
About the wishboard you can do a lot of thinks, of course Anarchy work in heavy white enviroments as Jaya would work on heavy blue, it all depends on your meta. I always use 1 or 2 slot for meta purposes.
I'm currently testing 10 different cards to make an upgrade to my Norin list, here's the list of cards:
- Goblin Warrens: Goblin tokens, inevitability.
- Burn at the Stake: Meh, it could be a finisher and do tons of damage ... I don't know, it just caught my attention in the past and now that i'm testing cards i wish to give this one a chance.
- Heat Shimmer: Copy a creature until end of turn. This card could give us the capacity to "oops i win" situations (stealing wincons, combos, etc)
- Jokulhaups: Reset button. This is like with Burn at the Stake to me, it just deserves a chance even if i think that it wouldnt get the spot.
- Avalanche Raiders: My replacement to Goblin Settler. I'm from Argentina and the Settler is imposible to get here, my parents travel to Spain and there were no Goblin Settler in LGS there neither x_X
- Keldon Firebombers: It was this or Epicenter. Mass destroyland win games in this deck. The Firebombers got a lot of advantages over Epicenter (being a creature, leaving a few lands online).
- Myr Battlesphere: The fattie of the deck. I used to play this before and with Purphoros it only get better, i just need to figure out if i want a fattie or not.
- Druidic Satchel: A very versatile artifact. Can ramp, can generate tokens, can win life. All relevant effects to us and at a very cheap cost.
- Eldrazi Monument: Well, the monument. Steroids for our minions, but the most important thing: the indestructible clause. If that enough to win the spot ? I don't know, but i definitely try it.
- Smokestack: The good ol' Smokestack. Giving the same amount of fear and headaches to players since 1998. This is the card that makes the deck serious, and in my testing wins me a LOT of games. This one with a Genesis Chamber online clear your oponents board in just a few turns. You need to decide if you want to leave the fun behind or not, but definitely worth further testing in the deck.
Hope to see your thoughts on this!
Plus, I absolutely adore the flavor of the card.
i think gaka chose tangle wire to achieve the same effect and avoid the hate. the card is annoying, and yes, we're not as vulnerable to it as other decks, but it's a problem to the table that it's solved by itself. now, if you also have goblin welder that's another story.. i just don't use it currently because of the lack of power late game.
might i point out viashino heretic for everyone running imperial recruiter? it's not just a repeatable artifact removal, it's also a damage dealer. that blightsteel colossus? yes it will survive, but good luck trying to win with 12 impending damage if its owner attacks me. i used it recently to deal 7 to close out a game, removing a spine of ish sah.
i'm also running possibility storm, both for the pseudo-lockout and for the fun factor. i'd need a good red instant to pair with chaos warp, so far i'm running with punishing fire to get some reuse (it was initially a lightning bolt, but i suppose the reusability trumps the 1 damage). any suggestions?
But yeah, nothing exciting from the new sets of note. Kind of sad, really, but oh well.
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control