Defenitely. Truthfully, most of the time I actually did cast Planar Chaos i didn't have a thumb in sight, but it still did what i wanted. It's best used late-game after dropping a couple gobbos and following up with this for protection. Folks who want to live will do their best to take out your forces, while this gives a nice bit of "screw you" to the mix.
I'll echo this. Had a few games the other night where Planar Chaos just totally ruined the night of everyone trying to stop me.
Sometimes this deck has randomly poor hands...but when you get that massively explosive hand, this is one of the best ways to protect yourself. I think I countered over 6 removal spells directed at Genesis Chamber or Planar Chaos in the course of two turns (6 player game, norin triumphs).
The inconsistency is annoying at times, but man....when you get that hand that lets you do completely stupid things like mana vault into genesis chamber and skullclamp on turn 1...then lock down the table with planar chaos and tangle wire by turn 4...it's a thing of beauty.
Usually, the hand is decent enough to get started, but the presence or absence of a draw/norin engine usually decides how the game goes. I make it a rule to always find someway of getting advantage before i keep a hand, or else you need to rely on luck to keep you going. Thankfully, this deck is very good with luck.
Besides, if the deck was completely stable, it wouldn't be fun.
I read this decklist and decided to proxy it out because it seems so ridiculous and disruptive and would be a neat deck to play with my fairly competitive play group. I have two 1 v 1 decks, and wanted to build an interesting multi-player deck, and nornin just sounded the most fun.
I have a few questions about how to play it exactly though; I am not sure if it is huge errors on my part (very likely) or just not getting the best possible draws or opening hands with this deck.
What should I look for in my opening hands? There seems to be a few different ways to win with this deck and I am just not sure when to mulligan and when to just hope draw into something. I have played against quick beatdown decks, and had no way to defend myself but also did not have any
creatures or token producing engines out to slow the assault.
I did not end up playing Norin in any of the games I played, and after reading through this thread I realized that I am definitely doing something wrong with this deck.
I honestly just need someone to spell out how to use this deck, what to look for in opening hands or what I should have as my main goals and/or combos. I understand that this deck is usually board situational, and I apologize in advance for this being an extremely open-ended question, I just want to do this deck justice and stomp the board as it was designed too.
My coolest card is blightsteel colossus ive only been playing for like 2 weeks so i dnt know how good it is but its a 11/11 mythic so i guess pretty good
I will eventually be updating the original post with a full-blown how-to-guide that will hopefully erase much of the confusion folks that arent me have with the deck. Once i finish editting and typing it, you'll have a nice little repository of knowledge. The current OP is fairly useless beyond the decklist
On opening hands:
Mulliganing is one of the hardest skills to master, particularly in a singleton 100 format. A deck with little in the way of tutoring needs to rely on it even more. A typical opener for me has:
2 lands
disruption
draw or norin engine
with the rest being gravy.
The opening hand with norin usually dictates how the game will progress. A turn one Norin (almost always your turn 1) into a turn 2 genesis chamber is your best bet vs aggro (easily the weakest matchup) and also wrecks havoc with pretty much any deck type. Control can't deal with 15 power by turn 5.
A slower hand can be just as effective - one without a norin engine can still win. Quietly ramping on the side into an explosive turn 6 or 7 can be devastating enough to keep you in the game or move you outright ahead. You're an annoying deck - be disruptive. An early moon or Tangle Wire slows the game down until you're ready to strike.
As i mentioned, aggro is the weakest matchup. As I dont usually face aggro, i didnt focus on shoring that matchup.
Countering aggro might involve returning to the more staxy approach Norin originally took, or trying to become a bit more interactive with the number of sweepers. The big three red ones are all insanely good, but can damage your plan if you've got a norin engine going. Use as a last resort.
I think, in a nutshell - using this deck is just trying to find the best possible play. Keeping someone from winning or utilizing a broken artifact gives you the time you need to set up. It also makes you look like the good guy, you did deal with that one combo, after all.
Wait until I finish the primer (with shiny pictures and sample hands!) and let me know if it answers your question more fully. Go-go Norin.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Forgive me if someone mentioned this card already, but Grab the Reins is a solid / flexible red removal spell
It doesnt do enough in this deck. The threaten effect doesnt help when i can just steal creatures permanentely off of Confusion, while the burn is card disadvantage and really doesnt do that much damage. I dont run many high-powered creatures in the deck, paying 4 mana to shock or worse something sucks.
Entwined, it's just too expensive. 7 mana threaten and removal... i could just cast Insurrection and win the game.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
In general - High Market is probably a good idea since i'm stealing stuff anyways. But i really don't want to hunt for it around here.
I've been fine with just the LD to stop Homeward path. If you dont have LD, just dont play your confusion until you get some. And then show them what it means to... FEAR.
Bronze Bombshell sucks unless i have confusion, so, however awesome it might be to kill someone with it, it's a no-go.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
That's the typical first time response to seeing a Norin deck.
That's also the typical first time response to proving Norin is badass.
Isn't he fun?
I do like Destructive Force and Wildfire - I used to use a 5-card mass LD package with crucible of worlds for extra fun. Now though, the goblin package makes them a bit worse, so i dont run most of it anymore, but it sure is fun to put it back in for a game and go "sup folks, nice mana bases"
Enjoy mauling people to death with Norin!
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
(What the hell did you RL MTG players do to Portal? Did you hate it so much that you had deck burning bonfires to get rid of the cards, thus increasing the rarity and prices? Did people mail back their fat packs to WotC in droves, demanding refunds?)
Skirk Fire Marshall - I usually dont have too many goblins in play. If i do, it's because i am winning. I dont think i would be able to trigger marshall, even if i wanted to.
For those interested:
I am updating the front page - Norin will become a true primer!
It will be a lot more helpful and will look much, much better.
Unfortunately, I suck with the formatting, so most of the stuff (the stuff you care about) wont be added until i get it to look good.
For now, enjoy what i've added.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
it happened awhile ago - i came to the conclusion that i'd rather have flexible, constant mana than the one-shot that mana vault gives me. This deck doesn't win in one turn - I am doing little things every turn that add up to the end stage. As such, continually taking one with no return sucks. I usually am not going to have a turn where i have nothing better to do with my mana than untap the vault, so i might as well save a few bucks while i'm at it. Did i mention the art on Chalice is awesome too?
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'll echo this. Had a few games the other night where Planar Chaos just totally ruined the night of everyone trying to stop me.
Sometimes this deck has randomly poor hands...but when you get that massively explosive hand, this is one of the best ways to protect yourself. I think I countered over 6 removal spells directed at Genesis Chamber or Planar Chaos in the course of two turns (6 player game, norin triumphs).
The inconsistency is annoying at times, but man....when you get that hand that lets you do completely stupid things like mana vault into genesis chamber and skullclamp on turn 1...then lock down the table with planar chaos and tangle wire by turn 4...it's a thing of beauty.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
Although i agree, sometimes you get such medicore hands, or sometimes you just die to your own Pandemonium
Usually, the hand is decent enough to get started, but the presence or absence of a draw/norin engine usually decides how the game goes. I make it a rule to always find someway of getting advantage before i keep a hand, or else you need to rely on luck to keep you going. Thankfully, this deck is very good with luck.
Besides, if the deck was completely stable, it wouldn't be fun.
Now, to find room for Orcish Librarian...
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The deck on the front page is currently the build i'm running. No major updates until Innistrad, i'd assume.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I have a few questions about how to play it exactly though; I am not sure if it is huge errors on my part (very likely) or just not getting the best possible draws or opening hands with this deck.
What should I look for in my opening hands? There seems to be a few different ways to win with this deck and I am just not sure when to mulligan and when to just hope draw into something. I have played against quick beatdown decks, and had no way to defend myself but also did not have any
creatures or token producing engines out to slow the assault.
I did not end up playing Norin in any of the games I played, and after reading through this thread I realized that I am definitely doing something wrong with this deck.
I honestly just need someone to spell out how to use this deck, what to look for in opening hands or what I should have as my main goals and/or combos. I understand that this deck is usually board situational, and I apologize in advance for this being an extremely open-ended question, I just want to do this deck justice and stomp the board as it was designed too.
On opening hands:
Mulliganing is one of the hardest skills to master, particularly in a singleton 100 format. A deck with little in the way of tutoring needs to rely on it even more. A typical opener for me has:
2 lands
disruption
draw or norin engine
with the rest being gravy.
The opening hand with norin usually dictates how the game will progress. A turn one Norin (almost always your turn 1) into a turn 2 genesis chamber is your best bet vs aggro (easily the weakest matchup) and also wrecks havoc with pretty much any deck type. Control can't deal with 15 power by turn 5.
A slower hand can be just as effective - one without a norin engine can still win. Quietly ramping on the side into an explosive turn 6 or 7 can be devastating enough to keep you in the game or move you outright ahead. You're an annoying deck - be disruptive. An early moon or Tangle Wire slows the game down until you're ready to strike.
As i mentioned, aggro is the weakest matchup. As I dont usually face aggro, i didnt focus on shoring that matchup.
Good options include:
Countering aggro might involve returning to the more staxy approach Norin originally took, or trying to become a bit more interactive with the number of sweepers. The big three red ones are all insanely good, but can damage your plan if you've got a norin engine going. Use as a last resort.
I think, in a nutshell - using this deck is just trying to find the best possible play. Keeping someone from winning or utilizing a broken artifact gives you the time you need to set up. It also makes you look like the good guy, you did deal with that one combo, after all.
Wait until I finish the primer (with shiny pictures and sample hands!) and let me know if it answers your question more fully. Go-go Norin.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
It doesnt do enough in this deck. The threaten effect doesnt help when i can just steal creatures permanentely off of Confusion, while the burn is card disadvantage and really doesnt do that much damage. I dont run many high-powered creatures in the deck, paying 4 mana to shock or worse something sucks.
Entwined, it's just too expensive. 7 mana threaten and removal... i could just cast Insurrection and win the game.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've been fine with just the LD to stop Homeward path. If you dont have LD, just dont play your confusion until you get some. And then show them what it means to... FEAR.
Bronze Bombshell sucks unless i have confusion, so, however awesome it might be to kill someone with it, it's a no-go.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
That's also the typical first time response to proving Norin is badass.
Isn't he fun?
I do like Destructive Force and Wildfire - I used to use a 5-card mass LD package with crucible of worlds for extra fun. Now though, the goblin package makes them a bit worse, so i dont run most of it anymore, but it sure is fun to put it back in for a game and go "sup folks, nice mana bases"
Enjoy mauling people to death with Norin!
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
because, all your threatens suddenly become full-time controls
Outside of that, it's too narrow to be even casually thrown in this deck, sadly.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
For those interested:
I am updating the front page - Norin will become a true primer!
It will be a lot more helpful and will look much, much better.
Unfortunately, I suck with the formatting, so most of the stuff (the stuff you care about) wont be added until i get it to look good.
For now, enjoy what i've added.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
A creature-light Norin might want it, though.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
when that happen and out of curiosity, why?
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-BornUB
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild GRW
RGOmnath, Locus of RageGR
WBTeysa, Orzhov ScionBW
URThe Locust GodRU
W(W/R)RAkiri, Line-SlingerW(W/R)R
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Buried Ruin might be replacing Mouth of Ronom.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary