Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite -> Phyrexian Processor norn is cool but I have no way to really tutor her up. Generally speaking, Mirror Entity is a lot more reliable and powerful than norn. But I wanted them in the same situation where as processor can be a good by itself card to draw and its really good with Children of Korlis leading its way in.
Rings of Brighthearth -> Idyllic Tutor I didnt find rings to be all that good as haste was more important. People were a lot less willing to let me sit behind my commander and mana when I had something like rings out as well which was annoying. If I ran some infinite mana stones / fetchlands as well it might stay but I am not so it was really narrow usually making Thousand-Year Elixir out to be the better option. The tutor has a few nice options to run into and I like variety when I can get it.
Tectonic Edge -> Thespian's Stage the new stage has been great for me so far. Other than a few coffers I dont end up needing my land destruction too often in my meta. I do like the versatility of the stage though.
EDIT:Swords to Plowshares -> Martial Coup Swords hasn't been what I needed in here for a while now due to how defensive it is. Its still great against things like C Sphinx and against combo creatures but mostly everything else I seem to be doing ok against. On the other hand I like how Coup works as normally I dislike wrathing myself but with coup it sets me up with a bunch of tokens as well and I can always use my champion changeling at EOT to cover my commander going into a max mana coup. I really did want another X spawn and it should be nice having a wrath attached to it.
On the block:
Swords to Plowshares creature based control is one thing that this deck does really well with. I just haven't found myself as blown away with swords of late and I have been contemplating replacing it... I have a few ideas such as bringing back Faith's Reward or what... I dont know for now. I haven't been as impressed with it of late though in here. I could also see Karn Liberated coming back in however I hate seeing a card swap go from one mana instant to 7 mana sorcery...
I have been dabbling a bit more in my rebels of late. Its been fun and I really like them so its a fun option to kick around from time to time. I am a little concerned about the mana increase from these changes to the deck but I seem to be ramping and hitting my land drops very effectively in here so I think its alright. It adds a little more punch and card draw to the deck which I had wanted for a while.
DECK CHANGES
Gideon Jura -> Karn Liberated I really love Gideon and think he is an amazing planeswalker but sadly he just isn't as great in multiplayer EDH as he was in heads up. Karn has better removal and while I liked the fact that Gideon could animate, its not something I found that useful on average. His taunt into good rebel blockers was fun but Karn just seems to be more reliable.
Thousand-Year Elixir -> Slate of Ancestry this increases my card draw in the deck. Honestly I haven't found myself really ever wishing I could tutor two rebels at a time and its really mana intensive. Its nice for recovery from a wrath but the psudo haste is about all I was using it for so meh. I like the extra draw that slate adds though.
Faith's Fetters -> Kozilek, Butcher of Truth I decided I wanted to bring up my draw package further and I tend to have a lot of mana in this deck and I can usually lock creatures up fairly effective so I thought Kozilek could be a good asset for this deck. I worry about bringing up the curve so much but in general I can defend myself in the early game with the rebels so having a bit of a higher curve isn't overly concerning.
I've been playing huge rebel decks forever, but haven't considered making it into EDh until recently.
Reading through here, I see you are still updating. Have you considered distorting lens? I like running that (wish it was Grindstone and not Painter's Servant that was banned) to make Lawbringer/Lightbringer never miss: then you have recurrable exile for any color. I also like to use one (or both) of the gliders (Thermal/Nightwind) rather than Rappelling Scouts, as both a cheaper search target and not using continual mana costs for pro-color.
I've been playing huge rebel decks forever, but haven't considered making it into EDh until recently.
Reading through here, I see you are still updating. Have you considered distorting lens? I like running that (wish it was Grindstone and not Painter's Servant that was banned) to make Lawbringer/Lightbringer never miss: then you have recurrable exile for any color. I also like to use one (or both) of the gliders (Thermal/Nightwind) rather than Rappelling Scouts, as both a cheaper search target and not using continual mana costs for pro-color.
The Lens is a cool piece of tech. I usually dont worry about it too much though. I usually use the Lightbringer / Lawbringers to hit multicolored commanders more than anything. It would be possible to run the Lens to expand that but it wasnt a huge concern of mine. They are usually useful somewhere in a 4 player game which is usually enough for me to be happy.
Thermal / Nightwind I considered them but I didnt feel that they packed enough punch regularly. Its cool if you can get something like Lens but in general I just run Rappelling as sort of a catch all flying defense creature. There are plenty of times where I dont even need to activate his protections to block off an attack as well. Plus if you are facing down a flying voltron commander there is always the Whipcorder and Bound in Silence that you can throw at it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Rebels have still been doing quite well for me. I tend to win via one of the several means to make a big X wave of tokens at the end of my opponents turns then swinging out with the entity buffing crazy big. I have come to notice though that card draw and ramp are two very key parts of this deck. It is also interesting but often I have found that not bringing out additional rebels beyond having like 2-3 guys at a time useful to keep people from thinking I need to be wrathed.
DECK CHANGE:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre -> Stoneforge Mystic I have been playing with both eldrazi for a while now and outside of a situation where I get shut out by means of Elesh Norn, I haven't found Ulamog all that useful to me. I end up throwing away big things in opening hands and my card draw isn't that great so I think I am going to scrap him and go where I think I can get more card draw. I am moving a little more draw back into an equipment package so we will see if its enough for him to come back or not. I like the fact that Ulamog gives me an alt wincon but I don't like how high on the curve he is and I think I would get better results from in increase to my draw package.
Idyllic Tutor -> Mobilization I don't have that many targets to pick from to be honest. I had actually moved to this a while back but forgot to mention it here. I just need options to make tokens at instant speed in this deck. I am very focused on big mana too so I have been getting good results from this when I draw it.
Gift of Estates -> Mask of Memory it adds another means of drawing cards. I often go for the 2 mana bird rebel as a backup to targeted spot tuck on my commander and the mask goes well with him to filter my hand a bit. It drops for less and equips for less than SoF&I which I like and I mainly run it for the draw. I tend to have things I am willing to filter out so it digs me better which I like and for a lot less investment.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The deck is working really nicely for being mono white. I have been making an effort to play it more often of late so I usually try to play it about once a week of late. Its actually got somewhat of an alarming win ratio at the moment. It actually handles voltron commanders and BR decks quite well due to how it is confugured. I still have some srious issues with playing against token opposition though and my ability to defend myself from big overkill overrun effects is sort of cruddy here. I looked at a lot of options though and am not really sold on any of them but I might try to make some room for some fog effects in the future.
DECK CHANGES:
Stoneforge Mystic -> Ramosian Captain I drew the stoneforge the other day and it was very underwhelming. I got skullclamp and put it on and never drew any cards with it. I still like the clamp but its still situational in when I want it. In the case where I got the mystic, a red player had an active Valakut that was just keeping me like completely off the board at the time. I have been tucked a few times of late which has been sort of surprising to me so the ability to tutor into another rebel has been put into question a few times due to this. I realized that I really only run a handful of tutoring rebels so I figured it might need to go up by one. I really like the toolbox of other rebels I have so unfortunately it looks like I need to expand my rebel package to be safer on being tucked. The Captain is essentially just the next cheapest rebel with the lowest costing rebel tutor that I wasn't already running. As a creature, its not great... but its another tutor effect for when I get myself into a jam.
Mask of Memory -> Distorting Lens I haven't had many situations where I have been able to use the mask yet. To be honest, I think the bird is about the only rebel I would really consider putting the mask on. In the end I think its a little narrow. I like the effect that the Lens could give me to nuke other colored creatures. Green has been sort of a thorn in my side of late and so I like the idea of just surprise nuking some of their valuable creatures with this.
Relic of Progenitus -> Stonecloaker outside of drawing a card with the relic, I don't want to hit my own things. I like the cloaker here because I am already playing a draw go deck. I like responding to people who think their cool rez spells are going to work and crush their dreams.
Martial Coup -> Terminus I have noticed on several occasions that tuck wraths can be utilized fairly well in this deck. I still have the option of casting this when my commander isn't out or trying to champion her the turn leading into it. Generally speaking though the times in which I want to wrath are most often when I cant stick my commander. I have had several cases as well where miracle cards have been incredibly useful to me too as I have some topdeck manipulation that also give me the option to draw things when I want.
EDIT: More Changes:
Maze of Ith -> Prismatic Strands maze is focusing on single attackers which I tend to have really good defense against already. Instead I think I will free up a slot and take some overrun defense which I tend to have more of a hard time dealing with. It also protects me from some of the big red burns spells that might hit all my creatures and or myself. I like that it has flashback which means two uses of it.
Terrain Generator -> Buried Ruin It surprised me when I noticed that I don't run the ruin in here considering how many artifacts I run. I think its a better card for my land slot than the generator. I don't really have the draw output to keep the generator going all that well and if I am riding land tax then I run the risk of pushing myself out of land tax range.
Thawing Glaciers -> Winding Canyons I just haven't been blown away by the glaciers. Having to always tap land and have it come in tapped has been sort of odd. I like the idea of Canyons jumping my commander back in after a wrath as there have been several times of late that I have a hard time re-establishing after being pushed off the board.
Plains -> Tower of the Magistrate I like telling people not to pick up boots and fun artifacts. They don't need those things. Especially that godo...
Glad to see you're still playing this list. I've been thinking about remaking mine, because I jut love Sivvi as a character. My biggest problem with my list was the ability to close out games. Besides mirror entity and rebel pokes, I had nothing really.
Glad to see you're still playing this list. I've been thinking about remaking mine, because I jut love Sivvi as a character. My biggest problem with my list was the ability to close out games. Besides mirror entity and rebel pokes, I had nothing really.
I know what you mean. There are a few good finishers outside of that though looking at like Coat of Arms and Leonin Sun Standard. I used to run Elesh Norn in the list but it was more likely that someone would Bribery her out on me than me actually playing her. Homeward Path could be an option but even then its unlikely that I draw that when I need it either so its safer to just not bother with her. Even without the entity, I tend to swarm with big numbers later in the game. Entity is still a big focus of the deck though but with the inclusion of things like Phyrexian Processor, Luminarch Ascension, and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth it isn't my only means of attack. In a pinch Gauntlet of Might and Caged Sun work alright as anthems too.
I have been sort of interested in the idea of running a more equipment centric build rather than a high mana X token spawn. It would be more of a slow progress style of deck but white is good with equipment and there are some solid evasive rebels out there.
One of the best parts of this deck which is part of why it never comes apart is that it costs so little to keep assembled. I only have like $150 - $200 tied up in this deck and even with that a lot of that isnt really what I would consider to be staples that I can spread around that easily. I don't think I could bring myself to make any other mono white deck at the moment with just how well rebels have been doing for me.
Agreed on all points. I lean a bit heavier on equipment and synergy, but have been thinking of adding more of a stax/denial theme.
On another note, I've been trying to pimp my list, so it hasn't been as cheap, and some rebel are hard to find! I also despise lin sivvi's artwork. The one on Restock is so much better imo. Her original art looks too manly and she has that huge adams apple ><
Just sort of looking at Theros so far for my decks and I thought I would just sort of drop a line for anyone who might read my rebel page.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion there is like.... no possible way I can possibly not include new elspeth here. Her wrath option misses like all the rebels in the deck except for the champion changeling. Her +1 gets me much closer to being able to go off on opponents and its POSITIVE which is totally sick. Her ult even fits the token swarm style of play this deck does so literally.... I love everything she does. She will definitely make it in for some gameplay.
Heliod, God of the Sun so..... mixed feelings here. Vigilance, isnt that productive especially on a bunch of 1/1s. I like the idea of an indestructable token producer but this deck actually runs a lot of board presence so its likely that he will be a creature which in this case (and I think most) is probably not a good thing as it opens him up to a lot more removal. His tokens are a little overcosted as well for general token generation costs. I wish his tokens had lifelink or something.... i mean, they are freaking clerics.... annoyed. Anyways, I think I will probably pass on him for now due to the fact that he will probably animate and vigilance not being that productive for me / cost per token being a bit high.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx on the flip side of Heliod, my devotion is fairly strong in this deck so I think I can fairly easily pull some good mana generation from this. It taps for colorless mana still so the only real downside is getting land screwed / nonbasic hate. I think this will actually do some good work in here as far as generating some mana. Generally speaking I really need the big x mana when I have a little bit of board state already and I am going big into an attack.
I wont bother trying to make room yet for anything as I want to sort of see if there are any other adds I want to consider before I make changes. We still havent seen Heliod's Spear so I am keeping high hopes that it enables tokens. Vigilance / First Strike are not what I hope for from it....
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Having quite a bit of mass destruction in my deck, I'd suggest you find a way to squeeze in Faith's Reward. I have found it to be incredibly useful.
Both Austere Command and Terminus are powerful cards that, in my opinion, can only really help you win the game if there is a swing or you are able to protect your own permanents somehow.
Having quite a bit of mass destruction in my deck, I'd suggest you find a way to squeeze in Faith's Reward. I have found it to be incredibly useful.
Both Austere Command and Terminus are powerful cards that, in my opinion, can only really help you win the game if there is a swing or you are able to protect your own permanents somehow.
Thanks for the help with my deck!
Also, I'm working on changing that as well.
I have considered Faith's Reward on a few occasions, but the problem I have is that I still seem to see a lot of tuck wraths and exile removal. Ghostway has just proven to be more robust at jumping a wrath for me due to this.
I do like Faith's Reward though and this type of deck is where it should ideally be run. I happen to sort of swarm all at once though rather than through my rebels though. So.... its questionable as to how much I really need it since I also have the changeling to jump Lin Sivvi through wraths.
I would love to see rebels reprinted and perhaps have an actual beater.... nothings is more annoying than trying to start the beatings with 1/1s and a 4/6 vigilant....
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would love to see rebels reprinted and perhaps have an actual beater.... nothings is more annoying than trying to start the beatings with 1/1s and a 4/6 vigilant....
I completely agree, though I doubt we will see them anytime soon; this block doesn't seem conducive to the rebel.
True story! Lin Sivvi is the only choice here, but I thought I'd point Cho Manno out in case you didn't know about him. I found your thread as my next project is to build a budget Commander deck, as the Cube and Sliver Commander deck I've just built were relatively expensive!
Are you satisfied with the price-to-success ratio? I guess the manabase alone makes it super cheap.
I really enjoy rebels as its a very different style of play. I love playing draw-go and its essentially that in mono white for me. I really love the change of pace as its a defensive deck for the most part rather than an offensive one. It is really really good against aggro and voltron decks and it can still play just fine against some control (if you get wrathed every turn it will still hurt though). My current build is really not set up to play against opposing combo though so if playing against combo and LD its.... not built for that. I occasionally have some issues with overrun type of decks as well but its a bit rarer as I am also sort of an overrun style of deck.
I love this deck because its a different style of play. Its sort of like draw-go pillowfort tutors if I had to describe it. Having access to all the rebel utility means that you can push your way into a lot of different effects as you need them. Overall, I have been very happy with this deck. It tends to work well in metas where you might draw a lot of attention by default as it protects itself incredibly well.
Terminus and Hallowed Burial must be the sweepers of choice for any rebel deck, as they don't disadvantage rebels so much. Obviously, you'll need to keep Sivvi safe and sound though...
I generally speaking pop them off when I am not doing so well or I set myself up into them by championing Lin Sivvi at the end of turn before I do them. It still runs a risk of someone having spot removal for the champion creature though in response to the wrath but we can also reassemble from tuck better than any other mono white commander.
I plan to try out Spear of Heliod. I've been seeing many unblockable creatures in my meta. This seems like it could be a good solution.
It would depend somewhat on what sort of creatures you are running into. Remember that Whipcorder and Bound in Silence are also answers for unblockable. In general, I only really worry about unblockable commanders as most other things that might be unblockable are mostly not important.
I could see the spear being.... ok. But my concerns when I play this deck dont tend to be how to defend myself from a single creature like.... ever. My concerns tend to focus more on swarm tactics, combo, and heavy control lists. I just see most of what the spear will do being areas I already seem to have good coverage on.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Trying to run through my lists and do Theros reviews. Here is what I have.
Theros Set Review:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion she does like everything I want to be doing in rebels. She makes TONS of guys as a +1? Yes please. She wraths opponents creatures but misses all my utility guys? Yes please. She drops a giant anthem effect to make my guys swing hard and possibly muder everyone outright? Yes PLEASE. ALL OF HER ABILITIES FIT THIS DECK VERY WELL. The only downside I have seen from her so far is that everyone does a lot to try to take her out. Its a usual walker issue but she just has so much value with every turn she gets its scarry and her ult is game endingly good. I have found that occasionally leading with her -3 means she might last longer which is handy because if you just run for the ult people freak out.
Heliod, God of the Sun This guy changes in my mind with every deck you compare him against. In here he unfortunately would probably be animated more often than I care to have him as thats where he will get zapped by creature removal. His tokens are overcosted but the mast vigilance is interesting from the perspective of possibly doing an equipment or aggro rebel build. He also makes tokens at instant speed so I am interested in him but my build doesnt quite fit warranting vigilance into my deck. In the end, I dont benefit from enchantment tokens and 4 mana per token is a bit too high to offset the cons it has. I think it would be cool though for like an equipment rebel build though potentially but again I think the fact that he likely will get animated is bad here...
Spear of Heliod its very interesting because of its ability to snipe creatures off. I generally dont really go for small anthem effects though and most of what it does is a defensive measure which rebels are already good at doing. Its cool, but I also dont care much about a single p/t buff anthem.
Burnished Hart I like ramp. Its a bit expensive to drop and pop but it can be split up when you do it which is nice. I always want more land in this deck so land ramp is always something I take a look at when I get a chance. It still seems a little clunky but interesting that they made this.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx my devotion in this deck is actually often fairly decent. My commander alone sets up two devotion and there are a few rebels with 2 devotion as well. I think I will test this as a potential ramp land and see how it goes. This is like my only mono color deck that I will be trying this out in but I tend to stick a lot of things to the board in this deck so lets give it a shot.
Well, its a nice set overall in my opinion. There arent a lot of cards that MUST go in all decks but a lot of cards that do work nicely for EDH in the right roles. I think I will go forward with the following:
DECK CHANGES:
Teferi's Puzzle Box -> Elspeth, Sun's Champion I LOVE puzzle box. That being said, there are too many value decks in my meta and they know to just blow their hands up as big as they can and float around doing just one or two big things while continuing to blow their hands up huge. I dont like watching someone with no max handsize and 15 cards just roll from big hand to big hand... I love the effect and I have had some good results but I have also had bad results from it. Its just too random as to how it will pan out for me overall. It screws with some combos but my meta doesn't really play much for traditional combo so usually its value generation decks that just abuse it against me. I am not here to play hug. Like I mentioned earlier, elspeth does like everything I want her to do in this deck.
Plains -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx going to see how hitting another basic out of the list goes. I have felt like I could add more utility lands to the list for a while but hadnt had any in specific I wanted. Lets try this and see how it goes.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I finally got to get some testing in with Distorting Lens the other night. I have to say, it was really cool to play with. Somehow I just never really draw it but I finally did the other day and got to play with it. It is great for both of the exile rebels but beyond that, I was playing against a bunch of swords so I was also able to use it politically and shift colors of creatures if I wanted. I ran into a situation too where one of my exile rebels had been binned but I needed to tutor for an exile and hit the color of the binned exile guy for little mana. I used the lens to change a Kokusho to red and exile him
Also, new elspeth has been wacky. She fits token builds so well.
Fixed my list too, I forgot to remove Teferi's Puzzle Box but added the new cards.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have been testing this deck on Cockatrice (1v1) and have enjoyed the way it plays out. Now I am looking to build a paper version of the deck for 4-player FFA and have a few questions regarding certain cards.
Elspeth Tirel/Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Elspeth, Sun's Champion: The planeswalkers have proven easy to protect in 1v1, however, I know that they will be targeted pretty hard in my playgroup - not to mention paint a target on me. Do you use your rebel search to protect the planeswalker and risk getting hit by another opponent directly or simply let it through?
Thermal Glider/Nightwind Glider: I regularly face a Kaalia of the Vast deck and one of these would seem nice to have at my disposal. Rappelling Scouts are great and I wouldn't cut them obviously, but the 2-powered glider(s) would serve as an effective rattlesnake vs Kaalia. Curious which other rebel you find least critical if I were to make a swap?
Karn Liberated: Was too slow in my hand for 1v1, so I can't comment how useful it may prove. Main issue is that he is too expensive $$ for me. Would Swords to Plowshares, or All is Dust serve as a reasonable substitute?
Lastly, I face a Captain Sisay deck which will probably pose major problems for this deck (Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). Outside of Aven Mindcensor are there any cards would recommend looking at for this kind of matchup?
Love the deck, I think it will perform well in my aggro/voltron heavy playgroup. Appreciate any advice.
I have been testing this deck on Cockatrice (1v1) and have enjoyed the way it plays out. Now I am looking to build a paper version of the deck for 4-player FFA and have a few questions regarding certain cards.
Elspeth Tirel/Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Elspeth, Sun's Champion: The planeswalkers have proven easy to protect in 1v1, however, I know that they will be targeted pretty hard in my playgroup - not to mention paint a target on me. Do you use your rebel search to protect the planeswalker and risk getting hit by another opponent directly or simply let it through?
Thermal Glider/Nightwind Glider: I regularly face a Kaalia of the Vast deck and one of these would seem nice to have at my disposal. Rappelling Scouts are great and I wouldn't cut them obviously, but the 2-powered glider(s) would serve as an effective rattlesnake vs Kaalia. Curious which other rebel you find least critical if I were to make a swap?
Karn Liberated: Was too slow in my hand for 1v1, so I can't comment how useful it may prove. Main issue is that he is too expensive $$ for me. Would Swords to Plowshares, or All is Dust serve as a reasonable substitute?
Lastly, I face a Captain Sisay deck which will probably pose major problems for this deck (Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). Outside of Aven Mindcensor are there any cards would recommend looking at for this kind of matchup?
Love the deck, I think it will perform well in my aggro/voltron heavy playgroup. Appreciate any advice.
Elspeth Tirel/Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Elspeth, Sun's Champion: One of the advantages behind the elspeths is that they defend themselves fairly well on their own. Sun's Champion has a wrath option that misses like all of the rebels except for the changeling hero which likely wont be in play when I would be considering using her -3 ability. They all give tokens though and can defend themselves to some degree. I often do bother defending them if possible but I dont always bother tutoring into rebels to defend them on the spot. I often like to have the flying 1/1 bird rebel in play anyways and I often drop him into chump blocking when needed. I try to not tutor during attacks unless its something really big generally speaking. I will defend them though if need be or just let them take small damage pokes if need be. I often will defend them though if its a matter of letting them die or tutoring to defend them. Its sort of a case by case scenario though.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - mana wise, this guy is really expensive. He works as an alt wincon and card draw though which are both handy. I generally try to drop him after a wrath or if my rebels aren't working though as he often provokes a wrath after cast. He isnt a necessity though as I ran the deck for a long time without him. You can go with draw or a wincon if you want. I think its sort of a personal preference as to what you want instead. Cathars' Crusade could work as a wincon if you are looking for other options. It gets out of hand quickly but I generally dislike how it has to be cast prior to getting a big token wave. Coat of Arms could also be another option which works after the token wave which I like.
Thermal Glider/Nightwind Glider specifically against kaalia I like having these. I dont know if you need both or not offhand though. I have found them usually underwhelming against other decks as we also have the Lightbringer and Lawbringer who hate on red and black and do so a lot better I think. I like the gliders against Kaalia though as they can take her out if she attacks you first which should make her learn for future attempts. Realistically though, the first thing I do to kaalia though is drop my Bound in Silence on her assuming they dont get ramp + haste established before me. I really havent had that much of an issue with Kaalia decks with rebels as they need to get a really good start (or control which most kaalia decks seem to not run enough of).
Karn Liberated I find that most of what I exile with him are not creatures to be honest. I think if you are looking to replace him, I would be hesitant to replace it with creature removal. Rebels push creatures around fairly well already. There are a few creatures like C Sphinx, Deadeye Navigator, Elesh Norn that specifically kind of are problems still without attacking but most can sort of be pushed around us when playing rebels. Its, again sort of your call. Creature spot removal can still be very useful but in general I haven't found it as necessary in most cases.
Captain Sisay / Elesh Norn: It is possible to out anthem her but its a total pain in the ass since it usually takes two anthems to do that. You could also consider spot exile after they blow you up and just accept that she wont have access to it again. Jester's Cap is about the only other thing I can sort of recommend. Toolbox commanders tend to go for setting things up so the cap could be nice for disrupting combos sisay might run and stopping elesh norn from happening to you. The spot exile might be the easiest of them though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Elspeth Tirel -> Thermal Glider: Found Tirel to be the least useful of the three Elspeths. Going to make this switch as a meta decision to help rattlesnake against Kaalia of the Vast.
Karn Liberated -> Unexpectedly Absent: Instant speed non-land permanent removal that also can be used effectively in response to Captain Sisay to shuffle her away. Definitely will be testing this out.
How often do you find the indestructibility on Darksteel Ingot relevant?
I tried working on a Lin Sivvi list for a while, but I couldn't get one that I liked. But one of the things I used in my old Innistrad block Curse Deck was Vessel of Endless Rest to recycle my curses if they were destroyed.
I know you already have Lin Sivvi and Mistveil Plains for this, but it's just an additional effect. And this one can even be used offensively to tuck a card in an opponent's graveyard in a pinch.
Elspeth Tirel -> Thermal Glider: Found Tirel to be the least useful of the three Elspeths. Going to make this switch as a meta decision to help rattlesnake against Kaalia of the Vast.
Karn Liberated -> Unexpectedly Absent: Instant speed non-land permanent removal that also can be used effectively in response to Captain Sisay to shuffle her away. Definitely will be testing this out.
Glad I could be of some use. With the Unexpectedly Absent, just remember that sisay can search for herself in that situation. It still looks to be a very interesting card though. I will have to put some thought into its use.
How often do you find the indestructibility on Darksteel Ingot relevant?
I tried working on a Lin Sivvi list for a while, but I couldn't get one that I liked. But one of the things I used in my old Innistrad block Curse Deck was Vessel of Endless Rest to recycle my curses if they were destroyed.
I know you already have Lin Sivvi and Mistveil Plains for this, but it's just an additional effect. And this one can even be used offensively to tuck a card in an opponent's graveyard in a pinch.
My meta in particular runs a lot of noncreature sweepers. I dont know if its really the norm overall but I loose a lot of mana stones to being swept. Darksteel to me is one of the few that I can get away with and not worry about them sweeing it for the most part (outside of a very few). Its not key by any means but its nice to drop it in with relatively low chances of it getting caught in a sweeper.
As far as tucking rebels goes, I dont do it real often but the utility is nice. As far as Vessel of Endless Rest goes, its a little expensive to drop for its mana output in general. There is nothing wrong with running it though if you value the tuck effect. I have seen it used offensively against someone else to push grave targets back into decks with some decent effect before but in general I have found it a little lacking on its tuck ability. It would be funny though if anyone had a commander that stays in the grave well though.
Well, I have been putting a bit of time into improving the OP here in hopes of making this my next primer. I have a long ways to go yet on that front. Still, there has been a lot of info added to the OP and a long ways to go.
Commander 2013 Review:
Angel of Finality its decent grave hate but we dont really work on ETB here. In fact, I sort of hate on it a little bit. I dont have any way to abuse it and the creature itself is relatively unimpressive. I think I would actually be better off with other grave hate like bringing Relic of Progenitus back in or looking at Scrabbling Claws over this just due to the draw option as well and the instant speed use portion of them.
Mystic Barrier this, I actually find quite humorous. This could work amazingly well to turn aggro overrun style of decks and turn them to deal with someone else first. Those type of decks often build arround killing someone really hard or killing a few players in one shot so the option of just turning them to face someone else seems hilarious. This deck does play somewhat fort like so it could be an interesting card to consider but I think it really depends on how much aggro overrun style of decks you see. Amusing sort of sums up my thoughts on this card.
Darksteel Mutation its sort of tuck like but keeps the target in play. It only works on creatures and they still get to use it as a blocker. Its.... ok I guess. Nothing especially fantastic but it is a little like Faith's Fetters in general. I would probably run Faith's Fetters over it though in most cases due to the ability to cast it on other things and not allow blocking. The fact that it takes away static abilities are nice though.
Unexpectedly Absent this seems like fun. Its instant speed and it works on anything. I really like where this is going. We can cast this for two mana in response to a shuffle effect as a tuck for anything. I think it would be a mistake not to consider this in here considering we are already playing draw / go here. In general, I dont like how expensive it could be to tuck a commander deep enough that it matters but instant speed and versatile targeting really makes me think its probably worth testrunning.
Surveyor's Scope potential for ramp. I will have to weigh this against other ramp that I run and what I think the chances of getting ramp and how much are but it has potential. I might have to run it though to be honest to know what the average return is but its nice. I dont run that much artifact recovery so its probably just a one shot thing but ramp is good.
Opal Palace I think it is amusing but I dont really see myself ever using this effect. Lin Sivvi has enough toughness as is to do her job and increasing her size isn't really going to really do much. I think its interesting but I just dont see a lot of situations where having a bigger commander is going to accomplish much for this deck. I think there are better utility lands to consider offhand.
DECK CHANGES:
Prismatic Strands -> Unexpectedly Absent I always want to make fog effects work even knowing that they just sort of wont. I guess swapping it out for a tuck any permanent is a decent swap.
Knight of the White Orchid -> Surveyor's Scope going to try moving my ramp arround and see how it goes. I couldn't really consistently run the Knight in here on time as generally speaking you have to lead it on turn 3 and that's when I play my commander. I will see if I can swap the scope in and see if it goes anywhere. It also leaves me with one less bad synergy card with Torpor Orb.
I have galspanic working on a new little project for me that I should be able to show off sometime in the range of like one to two months out. Stay tuned for that
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
DECK CHANGES
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite -> Phyrexian Processor norn is cool but I have no way to really tutor her up. Generally speaking, Mirror Entity is a lot more reliable and powerful than norn. But I wanted them in the same situation where as processor can be a good by itself card to draw and its really good with Children of Korlis leading its way in.
Rings of Brighthearth -> Idyllic Tutor I didnt find rings to be all that good as haste was more important. People were a lot less willing to let me sit behind my commander and mana when I had something like rings out as well which was annoying. If I ran some infinite mana stones / fetchlands as well it might stay but I am not so it was really narrow usually making Thousand-Year Elixir out to be the better option. The tutor has a few nice options to run into and I like variety when I can get it.
Tectonic Edge -> Thespian's Stage the new stage has been great for me so far. Other than a few coffers I dont end up needing my land destruction too often in my meta. I do like the versatility of the stage though.
EDIT: Swords to Plowshares -> Martial Coup Swords hasn't been what I needed in here for a while now due to how defensive it is. Its still great against things like C Sphinx and against combo creatures but mostly everything else I seem to be doing ok against. On the other hand I like how Coup works as normally I dislike wrathing myself but with coup it sets me up with a bunch of tokens as well and I can always use my champion changeling at EOT to cover my commander going into a max mana coup. I really did want another X spawn and it should be nice having a wrath attached to it.
On the block:
Swords to Plowshares creature based control is one thing that this deck does really well with. I just haven't found myself as blown away with swords of late and I have been contemplating replacing it... I have a few ideas such as bringing back Faith's Reward or what... I dont know for now. I haven't been as impressed with it of late though in here. I could also see Karn Liberated coming back in however I hate seeing a card swap go from one mana instant to 7 mana sorcery...
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DECK CHANGES
Gideon Jura -> Karn Liberated I really love Gideon and think he is an amazing planeswalker but sadly he just isn't as great in multiplayer EDH as he was in heads up. Karn has better removal and while I liked the fact that Gideon could animate, its not something I found that useful on average. His taunt into good rebel blockers was fun but Karn just seems to be more reliable.
Thousand-Year Elixir -> Slate of Ancestry this increases my card draw in the deck. Honestly I haven't found myself really ever wishing I could tutor two rebels at a time and its really mana intensive. Its nice for recovery from a wrath but the psudo haste is about all I was using it for so meh. I like the extra draw that slate adds though.
Faith's Fetters -> Kozilek, Butcher of Truth I decided I wanted to bring up my draw package further and I tend to have a lot of mana in this deck and I can usually lock creatures up fairly effective so I thought Kozilek could be a good asset for this deck. I worry about bringing up the curve so much but in general I can defend myself in the early game with the rebels so having a bit of a higher curve isn't overly concerning.
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Reading through here, I see you are still updating. Have you considered distorting lens? I like running that (wish it was Grindstone and not Painter's Servant that was banned) to make Lawbringer/Lightbringer never miss: then you have recurrable exile for any color. I also like to use one (or both) of the gliders (Thermal/Nightwind) rather than Rappelling Scouts, as both a cheaper search target and not using continual mana costs for pro-color.
The Lens is a cool piece of tech. I usually dont worry about it too much though. I usually use the Lightbringer / Lawbringers to hit multicolored commanders more than anything. It would be possible to run the Lens to expand that but it wasnt a huge concern of mine. They are usually useful somewhere in a 4 player game which is usually enough for me to be happy.
Thermal / Nightwind I considered them but I didnt feel that they packed enough punch regularly. Its cool if you can get something like Lens but in general I just run Rappelling as sort of a catch all flying defense creature. There are plenty of times where I dont even need to activate his protections to block off an attack as well. Plus if you are facing down a flying voltron commander there is always the Whipcorder and Bound in Silence that you can throw at it.
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DECK CHANGE:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre -> Stoneforge Mystic I have been playing with both eldrazi for a while now and outside of a situation where I get shut out by means of Elesh Norn, I haven't found Ulamog all that useful to me. I end up throwing away big things in opening hands and my card draw isn't that great so I think I am going to scrap him and go where I think I can get more card draw. I am moving a little more draw back into an equipment package so we will see if its enough for him to come back or not. I like the fact that Ulamog gives me an alt wincon but I don't like how high on the curve he is and I think I would get better results from in increase to my draw package.
Idyllic Tutor -> Mobilization I don't have that many targets to pick from to be honest. I had actually moved to this a while back but forgot to mention it here. I just need options to make tokens at instant speed in this deck. I am very focused on big mana too so I have been getting good results from this when I draw it.
Gift of Estates -> Mask of Memory it adds another means of drawing cards. I often go for the 2 mana bird rebel as a backup to targeted spot tuck on my commander and the mask goes well with him to filter my hand a bit. It drops for less and equips for less than SoF&I which I like and I mainly run it for the draw. I tend to have things I am willing to filter out so it digs me better which I like and for a lot less investment.
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DECK CHANGES:
Stoneforge Mystic -> Ramosian Captain I drew the stoneforge the other day and it was very underwhelming. I got skullclamp and put it on and never drew any cards with it. I still like the clamp but its still situational in when I want it. In the case where I got the mystic, a red player had an active Valakut that was just keeping me like completely off the board at the time. I have been tucked a few times of late which has been sort of surprising to me so the ability to tutor into another rebel has been put into question a few times due to this. I realized that I really only run a handful of tutoring rebels so I figured it might need to go up by one. I really like the toolbox of other rebels I have so unfortunately it looks like I need to expand my rebel package to be safer on being tucked. The Captain is essentially just the next cheapest rebel with the lowest costing rebel tutor that I wasn't already running. As a creature, its not great... but its another tutor effect for when I get myself into a jam.
Mask of Memory -> Distorting Lens I haven't had many situations where I have been able to use the mask yet. To be honest, I think the bird is about the only rebel I would really consider putting the mask on. In the end I think its a little narrow. I like the effect that the Lens could give me to nuke other colored creatures. Green has been sort of a thorn in my side of late and so I like the idea of just surprise nuking some of their valuable creatures with this.
Relic of Progenitus -> Stonecloaker outside of drawing a card with the relic, I don't want to hit my own things. I like the cloaker here because I am already playing a draw go deck. I like responding to people who think their cool rez spells are going to work and crush their dreams.
Martial Coup -> Terminus I have noticed on several occasions that tuck wraths can be utilized fairly well in this deck. I still have the option of casting this when my commander isn't out or trying to champion her the turn leading into it. Generally speaking though the times in which I want to wrath are most often when I cant stick my commander. I have had several cases as well where miracle cards have been incredibly useful to me too as I have some topdeck manipulation that also give me the option to draw things when I want.
EDIT: More Changes:
Maze of Ith -> Prismatic Strands maze is focusing on single attackers which I tend to have really good defense against already. Instead I think I will free up a slot and take some overrun defense which I tend to have more of a hard time dealing with. It also protects me from some of the big red burns spells that might hit all my creatures and or myself. I like that it has flashback which means two uses of it.
Terrain Generator -> Buried Ruin It surprised me when I noticed that I don't run the ruin in here considering how many artifacts I run. I think its a better card for my land slot than the generator. I don't really have the draw output to keep the generator going all that well and if I am riding land tax then I run the risk of pushing myself out of land tax range.
Thawing Glaciers -> Winding Canyons I just haven't been blown away by the glaciers. Having to always tap land and have it come in tapped has been sort of odd. I like the idea of Canyons jumping my commander back in after a wrath as there have been several times of late that I have a hard time re-establishing after being pushed off the board.
Plains -> Tower of the Magistrate I like telling people not to pick up boots and fun artifacts. They don't need those things. Especially that godo...
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I know what you mean. There are a few good finishers outside of that though looking at like Coat of Arms and Leonin Sun Standard. I used to run Elesh Norn in the list but it was more likely that someone would Bribery her out on me than me actually playing her. Homeward Path could be an option but even then its unlikely that I draw that when I need it either so its safer to just not bother with her. Even without the entity, I tend to swarm with big numbers later in the game. Entity is still a big focus of the deck though but with the inclusion of things like Phyrexian Processor, Luminarch Ascension, and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth it isn't my only means of attack. In a pinch Gauntlet of Might and Caged Sun work alright as anthems too.
I have been sort of interested in the idea of running a more equipment centric build rather than a high mana X token spawn. It would be more of a slow progress style of deck but white is good with equipment and there are some solid evasive rebels out there.
One of the best parts of this deck which is part of why it never comes apart is that it costs so little to keep assembled. I only have like $150 - $200 tied up in this deck and even with that a lot of that isnt really what I would consider to be staples that I can spread around that easily. I don't think I could bring myself to make any other mono white deck at the moment with just how well rebels have been doing for me.
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On another note, I've been trying to pimp my list, so it hasn't been as cheap, and some rebel are hard to find! I also despise lin sivvi's artwork. The one on Restock is so much better imo. Her original art looks too manly and she has that huge adams apple ><
Elspeth, Sun's Champion there is like.... no possible way I can possibly not include new elspeth here. Her wrath option misses like all the rebels in the deck except for the champion changeling. Her +1 gets me much closer to being able to go off on opponents and its POSITIVE which is totally sick. Her ult even fits the token swarm style of play this deck does so literally.... I love everything she does. She will definitely make it in for some gameplay.
Heliod, God of the Sun so..... mixed feelings here. Vigilance, isnt that productive especially on a bunch of 1/1s. I like the idea of an indestructable token producer but this deck actually runs a lot of board presence so its likely that he will be a creature which in this case (and I think most) is probably not a good thing as it opens him up to a lot more removal. His tokens are a little overcosted as well for general token generation costs. I wish his tokens had lifelink or something.... i mean, they are freaking clerics.... annoyed. Anyways, I think I will probably pass on him for now due to the fact that he will probably animate and vigilance not being that productive for me / cost per token being a bit high.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx on the flip side of Heliod, my devotion is fairly strong in this deck so I think I can fairly easily pull some good mana generation from this. It taps for colorless mana still so the only real downside is getting land screwed / nonbasic hate. I think this will actually do some good work in here as far as generating some mana. Generally speaking I really need the big x mana when I have a little bit of board state already and I am going big into an attack.
I wont bother trying to make room yet for anything as I want to sort of see if there are any other adds I want to consider before I make changes. We still havent seen Heliod's Spear so I am keeping high hopes that it enables tokens. Vigilance / First Strike are not what I hope for from it....
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So..... one might say there is only one legendary rebel still....
I will get it changed. He is technically a legendary rebel.... but as a commander???? I don't think that would work out well.
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Both Austere Command and Terminus are powerful cards that, in my opinion, can only really help you win the game if there is a swing or you are able to protect your own permanents somehow.
Thanks for the help with my deck!
Also, I'm working on changing that.
– Albert Camus
I have considered Faith's Reward on a few occasions, but the problem I have is that I still seem to see a lot of tuck wraths and exile removal. Ghostway has just proven to be more robust at jumping a wrath for me due to this.
I do like Faith's Reward though and this type of deck is where it should ideally be run. I happen to sort of swarm all at once though rather than through my rebels though. So.... its questionable as to how much I really need it since I also have the changeling to jump Lin Sivvi through wraths.
I would love to see rebels reprinted and perhaps have an actual beater.... nothings is more annoying than trying to start the beatings with 1/1s and a 4/6 vigilant....
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I completely agree, though I doubt we will see them anytime soon; this block doesn't seem conducive to the rebel.
– Albert Camus
I really enjoy rebels as its a very different style of play. I love playing draw-go and its essentially that in mono white for me. I really love the change of pace as its a defensive deck for the most part rather than an offensive one. It is really really good against aggro and voltron decks and it can still play just fine against some control (if you get wrathed every turn it will still hurt though). My current build is really not set up to play against opposing combo though so if playing against combo and LD its.... not built for that. I occasionally have some issues with overrun type of decks as well but its a bit rarer as I am also sort of an overrun style of deck.
I love this deck because its a different style of play. Its sort of like draw-go pillowfort tutors if I had to describe it. Having access to all the rebel utility means that you can push your way into a lot of different effects as you need them. Overall, I have been very happy with this deck. It tends to work well in metas where you might draw a lot of attention by default as it protects itself incredibly well.
I generally speaking pop them off when I am not doing so well or I set myself up into them by championing Lin Sivvi at the end of turn before I do them. It still runs a risk of someone having spot removal for the champion creature though in response to the wrath but we can also reassemble from tuck better than any other mono white commander.
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It would depend somewhat on what sort of creatures you are running into. Remember that Whipcorder and Bound in Silence are also answers for unblockable. In general, I only really worry about unblockable commanders as most other things that might be unblockable are mostly not important.
I could see the spear being.... ok. But my concerns when I play this deck dont tend to be how to defend myself from a single creature like.... ever. My concerns tend to focus more on swarm tactics, combo, and heavy control lists. I just see most of what the spear will do being areas I already seem to have good coverage on.
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Theros Set Review:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion she does like everything I want to be doing in rebels. She makes TONS of guys as a +1? Yes please. She wraths opponents creatures but misses all my utility guys? Yes please. She drops a giant anthem effect to make my guys swing hard and possibly muder everyone outright? Yes PLEASE. ALL OF HER ABILITIES FIT THIS DECK VERY WELL. The only downside I have seen from her so far is that everyone does a lot to try to take her out. Its a usual walker issue but she just has so much value with every turn she gets its scarry and her ult is game endingly good. I have found that occasionally leading with her -3 means she might last longer which is handy because if you just run for the ult people freak out.
Heliod, God of the Sun This guy changes in my mind with every deck you compare him against. In here he unfortunately would probably be animated more often than I care to have him as thats where he will get zapped by creature removal. His tokens are overcosted but the mast vigilance is interesting from the perspective of possibly doing an equipment or aggro rebel build. He also makes tokens at instant speed so I am interested in him but my build doesnt quite fit warranting vigilance into my deck. In the end, I dont benefit from enchantment tokens and 4 mana per token is a bit too high to offset the cons it has. I think it would be cool though for like an equipment rebel build though potentially but again I think the fact that he likely will get animated is bad here...
Spear of Heliod its very interesting because of its ability to snipe creatures off. I generally dont really go for small anthem effects though and most of what it does is a defensive measure which rebels are already good at doing. Its cool, but I also dont care much about a single p/t buff anthem.
Burnished Hart I like ramp. Its a bit expensive to drop and pop but it can be split up when you do it which is nice. I always want more land in this deck so land ramp is always something I take a look at when I get a chance. It still seems a little clunky but interesting that they made this.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx my devotion in this deck is actually often fairly decent. My commander alone sets up two devotion and there are a few rebels with 2 devotion as well. I think I will test this as a potential ramp land and see how it goes. This is like my only mono color deck that I will be trying this out in but I tend to stick a lot of things to the board in this deck so lets give it a shot.
Well, its a nice set overall in my opinion. There arent a lot of cards that MUST go in all decks but a lot of cards that do work nicely for EDH in the right roles. I think I will go forward with the following:
DECK CHANGES:
Teferi's Puzzle Box -> Elspeth, Sun's Champion I LOVE puzzle box. That being said, there are too many value decks in my meta and they know to just blow their hands up as big as they can and float around doing just one or two big things while continuing to blow their hands up huge. I dont like watching someone with no max handsize and 15 cards just roll from big hand to big hand... I love the effect and I have had some good results but I have also had bad results from it. Its just too random as to how it will pan out for me overall. It screws with some combos but my meta doesn't really play much for traditional combo so usually its value generation decks that just abuse it against me. I am not here to play hug. Like I mentioned earlier, elspeth does like everything I want her to do in this deck.
Plains -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx going to see how hitting another basic out of the list goes. I have felt like I could add more utility lands to the list for a while but hadnt had any in specific I wanted. Lets try this and see how it goes.
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Also, new elspeth has been wacky. She fits token builds so well.
Fixed my list too, I forgot to remove Teferi's Puzzle Box but added the new cards.
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Elspeth Tirel/Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Elspeth, Sun's Champion: The planeswalkers have proven easy to protect in 1v1, however, I know that they will be targeted pretty hard in my playgroup - not to mention paint a target on me. Do you use your rebel search to protect the planeswalker and risk getting hit by another opponent directly or simply let it through?
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: Little expensive for me at present. He provides draw and can serve as a win condition - two things the deck benefits from greatly. Would you recommend replacing this with an alternate win-condition or additional draw? Only other win conditions I've looked at are: Blightsteel Colossus, Coat of Arms, Cathars' Crusade, Leonin Sun Standard.
Thermal Glider/Nightwind Glider: I regularly face a Kaalia of the Vast deck and one of these would seem nice to have at my disposal. Rappelling Scouts are great and I wouldn't cut them obviously, but the 2-powered glider(s) would serve as an effective rattlesnake vs Kaalia. Curious which other rebel you find least critical if I were to make a swap?
Karn Liberated: Was too slow in my hand for 1v1, so I can't comment how useful it may prove. Main issue is that he is too expensive $$ for me. Would Swords to Plowshares, or All is Dust serve as a reasonable substitute?
Lastly, I face a Captain Sisay deck which will probably pose major problems for this deck (Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). Outside of Aven Mindcensor are there any cards would recommend looking at for this kind of matchup?
Love the deck, I think it will perform well in my aggro/voltron heavy playgroup. Appreciate any advice.
Elspeth Tirel/Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Elspeth, Sun's Champion: One of the advantages behind the elspeths is that they defend themselves fairly well on their own. Sun's Champion has a wrath option that misses like all of the rebels except for the changeling hero which likely wont be in play when I would be considering using her -3 ability. They all give tokens though and can defend themselves to some degree. I often do bother defending them if possible but I dont always bother tutoring into rebels to defend them on the spot. I often like to have the flying 1/1 bird rebel in play anyways and I often drop him into chump blocking when needed. I try to not tutor during attacks unless its something really big generally speaking. I will defend them though if need be or just let them take small damage pokes if need be. I often will defend them though if its a matter of letting them die or tutoring to defend them. Its sort of a case by case scenario though.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - mana wise, this guy is really expensive. He works as an alt wincon and card draw though which are both handy. I generally try to drop him after a wrath or if my rebels aren't working though as he often provokes a wrath after cast. He isnt a necessity though as I ran the deck for a long time without him. You can go with draw or a wincon if you want. I think its sort of a personal preference as to what you want instead. Cathars' Crusade could work as a wincon if you are looking for other options. It gets out of hand quickly but I generally dislike how it has to be cast prior to getting a big token wave. Coat of Arms could also be another option which works after the token wave which I like.
Thermal Glider/Nightwind Glider specifically against kaalia I like having these. I dont know if you need both or not offhand though. I have found them usually underwhelming against other decks as we also have the Lightbringer and Lawbringer who hate on red and black and do so a lot better I think. I like the gliders against Kaalia though as they can take her out if she attacks you first which should make her learn for future attempts. Realistically though, the first thing I do to kaalia though is drop my Bound in Silence on her assuming they dont get ramp + haste established before me. I really havent had that much of an issue with Kaalia decks with rebels as they need to get a really good start (or control which most kaalia decks seem to not run enough of).
Karn Liberated I find that most of what I exile with him are not creatures to be honest. I think if you are looking to replace him, I would be hesitant to replace it with creature removal. Rebels push creatures around fairly well already. There are a few creatures like C Sphinx, Deadeye Navigator, Elesh Norn that specifically kind of are problems still without attacking but most can sort of be pushed around us when playing rebels. Its, again sort of your call. Creature spot removal can still be very useful but in general I haven't found it as necessary in most cases.
Captain Sisay / Elesh Norn: It is possible to out anthem her but its a total pain in the ass since it usually takes two anthems to do that. You could also consider spot exile after they blow you up and just accept that she wont have access to it again. Jester's Cap is about the only other thing I can sort of recommend. Toolbox commanders tend to go for setting things up so the cap could be nice for disrupting combos sisay might run and stopping elesh norn from happening to you. The spot exile might be the easiest of them though.
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Elspeth Tirel -> Thermal Glider: Found Tirel to be the least useful of the three Elspeths. Going to make this switch as a meta decision to help rattlesnake against Kaalia of the Vast.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth -> Coat of Arms: Simply a cost saving switch. Coat of Arms seems preferable to Cathars' Crusade as it won't telegraph the inevitable token spell to follow.
Karn Liberated -> Unexpectedly Absent: Instant speed non-land permanent removal that also can be used effectively in response to Captain Sisay to shuffle her away. Definitely will be testing this out.
I tried working on a Lin Sivvi list for a while, but I couldn't get one that I liked. But one of the things I used in my old Innistrad block Curse Deck was Vessel of Endless Rest to recycle my curses if they were destroyed.
I know you already have Lin Sivvi and Mistveil Plains for this, but it's just an additional effect. And this one can even be used offensively to tuck a card in an opponent's graveyard in a pinch.
Thread | Draft
Glad I could be of some use. With the Unexpectedly Absent, just remember that sisay can search for herself in that situation. It still looks to be a very interesting card though. I will have to put some thought into its use.
My meta in particular runs a lot of noncreature sweepers. I dont know if its really the norm overall but I loose a lot of mana stones to being swept. Darksteel to me is one of the few that I can get away with and not worry about them sweeing it for the most part (outside of a very few). Its not key by any means but its nice to drop it in with relatively low chances of it getting caught in a sweeper.
As far as tucking rebels goes, I dont do it real often but the utility is nice. As far as Vessel of Endless Rest goes, its a little expensive to drop for its mana output in general. There is nothing wrong with running it though if you value the tuck effect. I have seen it used offensively against someone else to push grave targets back into decks with some decent effect before but in general I have found it a little lacking on its tuck ability. It would be funny though if anyone had a commander that stays in the grave well though.
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[Modern] Allies
Commander 2013 Review:
Angel of Finality its decent grave hate but we dont really work on ETB here. In fact, I sort of hate on it a little bit. I dont have any way to abuse it and the creature itself is relatively unimpressive. I think I would actually be better off with other grave hate like bringing Relic of Progenitus back in or looking at Scrabbling Claws over this just due to the draw option as well and the instant speed use portion of them.
Mystic Barrier this, I actually find quite humorous. This could work amazingly well to turn aggro overrun style of decks and turn them to deal with someone else first. Those type of decks often build arround killing someone really hard or killing a few players in one shot so the option of just turning them to face someone else seems hilarious. This deck does play somewhat fort like so it could be an interesting card to consider but I think it really depends on how much aggro overrun style of decks you see. Amusing sort of sums up my thoughts on this card.
Darksteel Mutation its sort of tuck like but keeps the target in play. It only works on creatures and they still get to use it as a blocker. Its.... ok I guess. Nothing especially fantastic but it is a little like Faith's Fetters in general. I would probably run Faith's Fetters over it though in most cases due to the ability to cast it on other things and not allow blocking. The fact that it takes away static abilities are nice though.
Unexpectedly Absent this seems like fun. Its instant speed and it works on anything. I really like where this is going. We can cast this for two mana in response to a shuffle effect as a tuck for anything. I think it would be a mistake not to consider this in here considering we are already playing draw / go here. In general, I dont like how expensive it could be to tuck a commander deep enough that it matters but instant speed and versatile targeting really makes me think its probably worth testrunning.
Surveyor's Scope potential for ramp. I will have to weigh this against other ramp that I run and what I think the chances of getting ramp and how much are but it has potential. I might have to run it though to be honest to know what the average return is but its nice. I dont run that much artifact recovery so its probably just a one shot thing but ramp is good.
Opal Palace I think it is amusing but I dont really see myself ever using this effect. Lin Sivvi has enough toughness as is to do her job and increasing her size isn't really going to really do much. I think its interesting but I just dont see a lot of situations where having a bigger commander is going to accomplish much for this deck. I think there are better utility lands to consider offhand.
DECK CHANGES:
Prismatic Strands -> Unexpectedly Absent I always want to make fog effects work even knowing that they just sort of wont. I guess swapping it out for a tuck any permanent is a decent swap.
Knight of the White Orchid -> Surveyor's Scope going to try moving my ramp arround and see how it goes. I couldn't really consistently run the Knight in here on time as generally speaking you have to lead it on turn 3 and that's when I play my commander. I will see if I can swap the scope in and see if it goes anywhere. It also leaves me with one less bad synergy card with Torpor Orb.
I have galspanic working on a new little project for me that I should be able to show off sometime in the range of like one to two months out. Stay tuned for that
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[Modern] Allies