Welcome to Orzhova life matters.deck. I am currently reworking some of this thread to expand on the information I provide here but the general premise of the deck is to sap the life out of its opponents via lifestealing and mass damage everywhere via pestilence effects. Feel free to shoot me any questions you might have on it. I have been through a lot of renditions of this deck but its a lot of fun. This is still sort of being worked on so I apologize if things are still incomplete.
Pros of Obzedat:
He naturally protects himself against many sweepers.
He provides us with additional life for sustain and or card drawing.
He forces opponents to tie up resources to try to block him.
He can poke people regardless of their board positions. This helps drop opponents who tend to have blockers and or gain life.
Cons of Obzedat:
Being a 5/5 makes him awkwardly smaller than most fatty creatures of the format.
He lacks evasion to connect to opponents forcing you to often just swing him wherever is open. This also makes him sort of bad at commander damaging people out.
He doesn't use equipment very well since he flickers every turn.
Alternative Commanders:
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Oloro is a decent commander for sure. My issue with him is that most players I have seen using him have to either 1) not play him and just use him for the life buffer or 2) play him out assuming he will be tucked / killed very quickly after casting him. He is a good commander but I just havent really seen him do that much overall when I have seen others play him. He is generally used as a means to stay in the game later via the lifegain but nobody wants to let him stick to the board because of the card drawing he can do. I also happen to have built heavily on pestilance effects which require a heavy black committment so it would be difficult to port that strategy into three colors and not be splashing very lightly or not using a color at all.
Ghost Council of Orzhova - I used to actually have a Ghost Council of Orzhova deck so I can speak from experience. In my mind, Ghost Council of Orzhova is superior at being a creature based deck as well as being a sacrifice style of deck. I do really enjoy the playstyle of Ghost Council of Orzhova but in the end, I did not like how much work it was to try to keep him in play as if anyone used a sweeper I found him vulnerable again after he returned to play. I spent a lot of time just trying to keep people from having access to my commander who acted as my primary sacrifice outlet. I really enjoy the way that Obzedat happens to function in that he is a fire and forget style of creature that just sort of evades a lot of the incidental removal on his own.
MonoBlackCommanders - The benefit of running a mono black commander is that your manabase is much easier to handle so if you do end up with a pestilance style of build you can easier juggle those effects as well as use better mana doubling tactics. The downside is that most of them will be a black goodstuff commander that you just happen to push in the direction of lifestealing and mass damage. Its something to consider though for sure as the landbase does simplify quite a bit and its easier to hit bigger mana numbers for the big X effects.
Why I chose Obzedat:
Personally, I really like BW's life siphoning tactics. When wizards got to RTR block I was really excited for a potential second release of Ghost Dad. I was originally actually very displeased with how Obzedat turned out from an EDH perspective but I ended up changing my mind later. When I used to play Ghost Council of Orzhova I was constantly having issues with trying to keep my commander in play and playing creatures essentially just to make sure I had something I could sacrifice to keep him around. It was a lot of work and so when I did finally try out Obzedat I was pleased with how he was more fire and forget rather than something I needed to maintain. It also opened me up to running more creature light in my build which I appreciated the extra freedom in building. Moving forward to more recently, I really enjoy Obzedat's ability to poke at my opponents both with his life stealing abilities as well as with his random swings for damage. I have considered moving to something like Oloro, Ageless Ascetic before but the problem with that is that it makes my build of being black heavy and pushing pestilence effects very difficult. In the end, the tactics that I use in this deck are not unique in that they could not be adapted to another commander but moving up in colors makes the build very difficult to continue so if I were to change commanders and keep the build it would likely be to another BW commander or down to mono black. Obzedat just seems to fit the build the best for me though as he helps put additional pressure on one player or sort of balance out someone who might be gaining life. I really enjoy Obzedat in this build because he fits the theme very well and is still fire and forget in that I dont have to cast him a lot but he does good work with even just one cast and doesn't rely on additional cards to get his own value.
There are a lot of elements to the deck and how you might consider building and or playing it. I will run through several elements on gameplay strategies as well as deck construction here. If there is anything you feel I dont answer, dont hesitate to ask.
Utilizing Obzedat:
Obzedat is what I like to consider a fire and forget style of commander. He generally doesn't need to be cast very much in a game and doesn't really need any assistance beyond being cast to get his work done. While fire and forget commanders are often goodstuff in nature, Obzedat fits the theme of the deck nicely and does a lot of work on his own.
Stats: Obzedat is a 5/5 for 1WWBB which is really not that impressive to be honest. Lots of beater class creatures like the titan cycle will outclass him in size but he also tends to outclass many utility based creatures with his size. He lacks evasion which means that he will literally trip over anything and everything that gets in his way but his blink evasion keeps him out of wraths making him able to connect for hits through a wrath heavy meta.
Where he Shines: Obzedat is fantastic in a wrath heavy meta. I run the deck as sort of a wrath heavy deck as well due to all of the pestilance effects in it. Each turn he should always leave play and it makes any situations where the board gets overrun and wrathed all the better as there tends to be someone without a creature after a wrath so just run him in there for some quick and easy damage.
How to Play Him: whenever possible, connect to someone's face with Obzedat. Always try to gauge what the likelihood of someone using a blocker and what it might be. You can often gauge if they will block or not but occasionally I will focus on the player who has a bad blocker like a Glen Elendra Archmage or Oracle of Mul Daya who I think its unlikely they would want to block with them.
Sorin Markov ideally, he probably should be in the list but I have such a strong dislike for the guy that I just refuse to use him. I would rather do an infinite combo and win than use this guy. He fits the deck well though and if you dont share my dislike for him I would say he probably belongs here.
I am sure the list could use some changes yet but so far it has been working out really well with a cool style of play.
Personally, I dont really care for it much. I dont like too many cards that need the support of lifegain as well to make them work as it feels too much like I am trying to assemble something. Also, Obzidat flickers in and out making him not a great target for it and I dont run all that many creatures. So, overall I would say probably not as keen on it.
EDIT:Vizkopa Guildmage and Well of Lost Dreams are sort of the few that come to mind that I run that are more or less lifegain supporting. Both of which just have really a huge impact though if they can stick though. I think the Cradle is cool but I think it has to stick longer to really see the results of it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Are you intentionally avoiding the Viszkopa-Exquisite Blood combo? And, of course, there's Exquisite's twin sibling Sanguine Bond.
Necromancer's Covenant kills a graveyard and gives you (often) a lot of Lifelink-y dudes. Plus gives your other zombies lifelink. Flavourful for this deck.
Not sure I'd rather spend an extra mana and cast Sorin's Vengeance over Feudkiller's Verdict. The immediate 10 damage is more tempting to me than a vanilla 5/5, except, perhaps, if you have the Batterskull out.
Finally, I've always found Sword of War and Peace gains me a lot of life, in addition to its nice set of additionals.
This is a pretty trim list, though, so all my suggestions seem pretty tenuous to me.
Are you intentionally avoiding the Viszkopa-Exquisite Blood combo? And, of course, there's Exquisite's twin sibling Sanguine Bond.
Necromancer's Covenant kills a graveyard and gives you (often) a lot of Lifelink-y dudes. Plus gives your other zombies lifelink. Flavourful for this deck.
Not sure I'd rather spend an extra mana and cast Sorin's Vengeance over Feudkiller's Verdict. The immediate 10 damage is more tempting to me than a vanilla 5/5, except, perhaps, if you have the Batterskull out.
Finally, I've always found Sword of War and Peace gains me a lot of life, in addition to its nice set of additionals.
This is a pretty trim list, though, so all my suggestions seem pretty tenuous to me.
Exquisite Blood / Sanguine Bond I found both of them to be slow and really dependant on other lifegain sources. I dont really care much for effects that rely on lifegain to work so I stayed away from these effects as I found myself having to slow roll into over extending with them in play. I just had too hard of a time setting them up with other good cards and getting the value from them. I also dont particularly like comboing off so that isnt really a plus here. I did play them for a while though and just found them sitting in my hand too much.
Necromancer's Covenant I really wish it hit more than just the creatures in graveyards.... my concern is that its sort of a super late game card in my opinion. I just dont really like relying on my opponents to have a specific setup for it to work but it has some potential. Usually though I would rather just have the Army of the Damned or graveyard removal for either situation though is my concern. I feel like adding another tutor would be more effective than it specifically.
Sorin's Vengeance over Feudkiller's Verdict - this is actually an interesting suggestion. I guess I had not really considered Sorin's Vengeance originally. I might need to think a bit more about this one. While the direct damage is nice, being able to defend myself with a 5/5 is also potentially useful.
Sword of War and Peace - I might have originally underestimated this effect. The life gained from effects usually turns into more draw power so dumping life into draw thus turns right back into making life back here. You have a good point here. I will see if I can make some room here.
DECK CHANGE:
Bloodgift Demon -> Sword of War and Peace I had been running the Demon and Graveborn Muse and been having issues with both of them in the fact that they are extremely easy to remove and thus difficult to get consistant draw from.
With this change I keep questioning if Disciple of Bolas will be able to continue to stay in the list or not... I have had to drop my own commander to him a few times and while its not a terrible move I generally would like a few more creatures to use him.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Beacon of Immortality - It could possibly be better than some of the lifegain I have like Feudkiller's Verdict. Pure lifegain though sort of worries me as usually I want something that has other elements to it. Its one of the biggest one shot lifegain effects I will likely see.
Slaughter the nonblack worries me here. Otherwise I agree its cool. I had it in my consideration early on but I cut it in favor of just having the cheap one mana exile removal.
Divinity of Pride I ran it early on, its cool that its big but its slow enough that I wasnt all that impressed by it. I have a hard enough time with Serra Ascendant and Wurmcoil in the list as is. I ran into too many situations where people answered them. Serra has the advantage of being really cheap to spin off and can drop super early, and the wurmcoil often splits when it dies. I just couldnt really see the same advantages for Divinity.
polluted bonds I probably should replace Shattered Angel with this.... It gives almost as much life but more importantly it steals it from opponents and it isnt a creature making it less prone to some types of removal.
What's the reason of leaving Kokusho outside the list? Lack of reanimation?
I considered him early on but I lack sac outlets and rez. Generally speaking I dont really like having to throw him out and see how it goes. Too much theft, exile, tuck, and clones in my meta for that sort of thing. I think he is a cool creature but I usually want to be invested in sac outlets / rez for him.
could Emeria, the Sky Ruin have room in there? possible reanimation that is harder to deal with.
thats an interesting idea.... Usually I find Emeria difficult to use in multicolored decks though. I will think about it but I think I would want to ramp up my plains count to really give it any real consideration here.
DECK CHANGE:
Shattered Angel -> Polluted Bonds its less lifegain but it hurts opponents and its on an enchantment instead of a creature which is nice.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
ISB are we the same person. We always seem to build the exact same decks! I was actually just considering a deck along these exact lines since I hadn't seen anything quite like it so far. Then here you go stealing my thunder!
Since I'm likely not gonna build this (hate feeling like I'm copying someone) I'm curious how you've been finding Skeletal Scrying. I've never had much success with this card.
I'm also curious why you didn't include Crypt Ghast. Feels like he'd fit the curve and style of this deck well.
ISB are we the same person. We always seem to build the exact same decks! I was actually just considering a deck along these exact lines since I hadn't seen anything quite like it so far. Then here you go stealing my thunder!
Since I'm likely not gonna build this (hate feeling like I'm copying someone) I'm curious how you've been finding Skeletal Scrying. I've never had much success with this card.
I'm also curious why you didn't include Crypt Ghast. Feels like he'd fit the curve and style of this deck well.
what can I say, I build a ton of decks. I would never let someone else's list dissuade you from building something though. I usually just ignore other people's lists when I go to build something new.
Skeletal Scrying - I run creature light and rez light so I dont really need much out of my graveyard other than the occasional Sun Titan / Yag Win stuff. I like that its instant speed and I can bluff other things while I sit behind it. I havent gotten to really use it much yet in this deck because I usually have other good draw going on when I have it but I run a TON of draw in this deck trying to keep chaining it into more draw. I havent gotten to test it much yet but I have used it before in other decks decently.
Crypt Ghast I tried running him but the problem I have is that he is really really fragile and I run somewhat rez light here. I want more robust extort but I just wasn't feeling it with him.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I still might build it since I've never tried playing an orzhov deck and I'd like to know if I like the style. But seriously I currently have Aurelia and Thrun built. As I said long ago when we first encountered each other here,you air have excellent taste.
As an aside will you be running the new vampire that was just spoiled when it comes out, cause he was basically what made me think of building something like this.
I still might build it since I've never tried playing an orzhov deck and I'd like to know if I like the style. But seriously I currently have Aurelia and Thrun built. As I said long ago when we first encountered each other here,you air have excellent taste.
As an aside will you be running the new vampire that was just spoiled when it comes out, cause he was basically what made me think of building something like this.
Generally speaking, I like every deck I have to play differently so I usually try to go for sort of a unique theme of playstyle to my decks. Its not much fun to reproduce the same deck several times in my opinion as I would usually rather just play my deck that does it the best than have three versions of it.
Due to this, sometimes I do some crazy builds.
DECK CHANGE:
Angelic Chorus -> Venser's Journal the lifegain should actually be very similar. The big difference though is that the journal adds in the option of a huge hand and a bigger turn by turn life payoff. I keep moving to a more creature light setup so it seems like it should be a good change as they both take effect at the same time and the Journal has potential to add a lot more to the deck.
Harvester of Souls -> Darksteel Sentinel I have always been a fan of the Sentinel in the fact that he is both offensive and defensive and draws very little hate. He blocks for me like a champ as well which is one thing I really like. He sends utility creatures and non evasive beaters elsewhere just by being around. I just sort of lack the ability to really abuse the Harvester in a creature light deck.
Disciple of Bolas -> Vindicate somehow or another I had had some issues making room when I first made the list so it seems as good a time as any to get it in the list.
Renounce the Guilds normally I would be focusing more on this in a mono colored deck but as my commander flickers in and out it actually makes this a lot better. It gives me a chance to potentially drop multiple commanders at instant speed. My worry here though is that I also see a lot of mono colored decks in my meta. This seems like a little bit of a meta call type of card but it also works really well against voltron commanders. Right now I stand at interested but I could definitely see it going either way for me. I would like to do some testing with it though as I could see some positive results from it at first glance.
Riot Control lifegain and a fog in one shot. On the upside as well it gives life for all opposing creatures which is nifty. On the downside, generally speaking you have to sit on fogs for some time before they are usable. Generally speaking I dont run them due to that but its interesting.
Crypt Incursion instant speed, mass graveyard purge, plus it has lifegain on it.... I like this effect a lot and I think it could be really cool. It has some competition though as black / white has good grave hate already. I dont really abuse graveyards myself much either so it could be hard to include as it would have to beat out something like Relic of Progenitus. Still, its a useful effect with lifegain on it as well so its interesting here.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa this guy is cool but definately designed more for standard play. He will have a hard time getting his p/t buff so generally speaking we have a 4/4 lifelinker. Protections dont really matter for much in EDH where wraths drop all the time so Serra Ascendant beats the pants off this guy and Divinity would likely make the list again far before I would consider this guy.
Obzedat's Aid so this is quite the interesting card. It can serve a lot of different roles and doesn't require me to be really creature based which is really cool. It sort of reminds me of Yawgmoth's Will in a lot of ways. I think its a good rez effect in a deck like this where I dont run as many creatures but I dislike how its a rez from my graveyard only where as something like Beacon of Unrest could give me a few options from any graveyard. Unfortunately I have not been able to really make up my mind on this card yet but I think its a strong candidate for consideration.
Orzhov Cluestone its an interesting stone as a lot of my cards I am trying to ramp into do sort of land in the 5+ range here but the cycle off effect feels a little overpriced. Mindstone is another good option to consider in its place and it costs less to drop / pop. Its a big question of how important I find the colored mana I guess. I dont find it better than the stones I already have though but its interesting to see new stone options.
DECK CHANGES:
Feudkiller's Verdict -> Debt to the Deathless I think Feudkiller is cool but the opportunity to add a second (AND MORE POWERFUL) Exsanguinate is too good to pass up. It fits the deck exactly to what I am trying to do which is hit my opponents and gain some life. I was literally blown away when I saw this card spoiled as it absolutely screamed to be added to this deck.
I am only committing to one change at the moment. I was surprised to see that an uncommon was the one card that I was really excited for but it just fit the deck a lot better than the other cards that were spoiled did. I am still sort of on the fence on my thoughts of Obzedat's Aid and Renounce the Guilds.
ON THE BLOCK:
Massacre Wurm he is cool but I have yet to really ever get any big results from him. I dont see as much token though in my meta right now as I once did though.
Sword of War and Peace I just havent seen much for results yet. I will hang in there and see if I cant get some play with it but so far I am unsure of it. My creature count keeps going down and the protections it gives totally suck. Plus with Obzedat I have to reequip every turn so the protections really dont work anyways against spot removal.
Army of the Damned with having Debt to the Deathless added to my arsenal, it really makes me question if I need army anymore. Cutting this would lower my curve which would be nice and last time I used army it just provoked two turns of wraths on it which wasn't very productive.
Well, a few more changes from some gameplay. The deck is still quite strong and I love that I can claw my way to killing everyone from 8 life at times which I had to do the other day after taking a Warstorm Surge hit for 36 dmg.
Skeletal Scrying -> Weathered Wayfarer I run a lot of nonbasic lands that are really nice to be able to toolbox into. Especially when trying to hit crazy big mana it helps to be able to tutor up coffers and Urborg. I like the Scrying in theory but I kept seeing it when I had better draw engines already online. Its a good card but I am going to try dropping it for now and seeing how things go.
Sword of War and Peace -> Beseech the Queen I have a lot of times wished I just had another tutor for a little more consistency. I draw really well in here but with so few tutors I was having a hard time pinpointing cards I wanted specifically. I dont want to go too crazy on tutors here but the increase in consistency is nice. Sword had been giving me issues with how bad the protections were. Plus Obzedat keeps flickering so most of the point of pro white is against spot removal so it doesn't even work there.
Massacre Wurm -> Akroma, Angel of Wrath the wurm hits the theme of the deck for sure but I was having a lot of issues really using him. There have been less token decks running around of late and while there are still some, I dont like how I cant really control who I want to be hitting with him. If he had been hitting more opponents hard or the ones I want him to be then it might be different but too often I have disliked how he has worked for me. Akroma on the other hand gives me another nice life total pressure creature who can defend me. I tax a lot of people's life totals with a lot of things so she gives me yet another poke.
Plains -> Boseiju, Who Shelters All with the addition of Debt to the Deathless to the deck people are sort of freaking out about possibly needing to run more counterspells in their decks lol. The damn thing is just absolutely backbreaking. I think it actually warrants the inclusion of Boseiju on its own. I have a few ways to make it so I can use Boseiju without taking the life hits so it should be interesting to test out.
Somehow I had my original land count off by like 3 lands so I updated that too. Perhaps 40 lands a little extreme but for now its ok by me. There is a chance I might end up cutting 1-2 of them for things like Land Tax / Tithe though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Really like what your deck is trying to do. If I'm allowed to throw out some random ideas, then:
Avacyn, Angel of Hope Pontiff of Blight major extortion Reveillark for recursion. Although this requires a different build but I think It's important to have a way to bring back vizkopa guildmage. Also, it can bring back Serra Ascendant, Weathered Wayfarer, Knight of the White Orchid, Academy Rector, Solemn Simulacrum, Kagemaro if conditions are met and if you decide to play it: Pontiff of Blight. Thrull Parasite extort durdle to kill planeswalkers and to combo with persist guys Whitemane Lion Extortion every turn. Also Stonecloaker and Dust Elemental
Avacyn, Angel of Hope my biggest annoyance is that everyone and I mean everyone tries to kill her immediately. Generally speaking when I drop her, it doesn't even matter what my board state is she usually dies within the turn rotation. She dies to clones and premium white removal and both of which are popular in my meta. I really like what she does but she just dies on me far too easily. I like her though for a nice vigilant beater but Akroma does good for me at that roll and draws less hate generally.
Pontiff of Blight I like him but I run creature light and rez light. It would be difficult to see much for results from him. I like seeing a little faster results from my creatures as well and I just feel like his results are a little slow for my own taste.
Reveillark If I wasnt as creature light I would consider it. However I have really sort of a low creature count in the deck. Generally speaking its not something I can use her or I would probably try to get him in.
Thrull Parasite I love extort but I dont like it on small body do nothing creatures. Too many of the extort options are do nothing creatures which is why I am not running them. They die too easily and often for my own like.
Whitemane Lion if I was more focused on extort specifically it could be an option. I currently only run one actual card with extort though. The same for extension on the other guys. I have sort of a low creature curve as well making these guys a little less useful for me in general.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I am assuming you are referring to Children of Korlis? Its true that they would be really cool in a situation such as Necropotence in play or getting ready to run out a Necrologia, I dont have a lot of cards that really interact with them and I am not playing rebels here. If I had more outlets that really dumped a lot of life into them then I think I would be more willing to consider them but currently I really only have two really big life drop effects in my list where I can drop a lot of life in one shot to.
Its a cool idea and sort of in theme, I just dont think I have enough ways to abuse them currently.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have been playing a few more games and noticing that my defenses are a little sketchy. I decided to scrap a few things to try to fort a little better. The longer I go the more I can steal life and such later so not taking random swings for damage is fairly important.
DECK CHANGE:
Praetor's Grasp -> Ghostly Prison there isn't really a single card that I can usually name that this deck needs that my opponents reliably have. Necropotence is probably the one card I mostly always want but my opponents don't always have it so I am less keen on keeping this tutor. Propaganda effects are surprisingly annoying to swing into and have been getting more popular in the group I am with currently. There are plenty of times where there are sudden large armies of dudes but if you have to pay for each attacker it usually turns entire waves of dudes to someone else.
Beseech the Queen -> Wall of Omens Besseach is my least favorite tutor as its very black intensive, not super cheap, and I have to reveal what I tutor for. The wall is a fast cantrip card drawing blocker which I like. Sometimes just having a single body on the ground is all I really need.
Polluted Bonds -> Rout the bond is amusing but it costs a lot of mana for a very slow rolling effect. I like the effect but its something that you really want early on and it gets less impressive later as well as costing a lot of mana for something that doesn't really hurt a ton. Rout can bail me out at instant speed which I am very interested in.
Vizkopa Guildmage -> Everflowing Chalice the deck needed more ramp and I have never really had a setup where the guildmage is what I needed or wanted. The mage is cool but its something thats good in an already good situation.
Batterskull -> Sacred Mesa batterskull has been sort of oddly expensive to cast and use. I don't really want to equip it to much of anything and it gets hated on a lot due to its ability to bounce back to hand. I like it in decks that draw less cards that need extra things to do but that hasn't been here. The Mesa might seem like an odd add but it can fort up really nice. I considered Bitterblossom instead however only one creature a turn and only at my upkeep can go a few different ways. Generally though I want to be able to stack out blockers as necessary. It also helps me against some of those pesky eldrazi annihilate triggers and such. Once I have my commander flickering in and out I can usually just try to fort up and survive so I think that the Mesa is the better pick at the moment as just pushing guys around me should work really nice with Obzedat leaching for me.
You don't have many creatures anyway and it's an asymmetrical effect with Obzedat. Might not be worth the amount of cards to make it work but seemed like an interesting interaction.
You don't have many creatures anyway and it's an asymmetrical effect with Obzedat. Might not be worth the amount of cards to make it work but seemed like an interesting interaction.
Good question, generally speaking tapping and untapping are hard to really control how good they can be. Things like Kismet work really well against haste and in combination with other things that keep things from untapping. Meekstone and some of those type of effects can be useful but only if the first swing wont be lethal to you.
I run Blind Obedience myself but mostly for the Extort option on it. Generally speaking even with that, it gets answered very very quickly for some reason for me. I don't know if I would be willing to include a version of the card that didn't have the extort on it.
Some of them are ok, I think most of them are sort of meta calls though. I really like Arena of the Ancients due to the fact that it taps down and keeps them tapped but even then, about half of the players or more have little effect from this that I play against.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Another small update. I also found out that this deck is exceptionally bad against combo decks because its slow and grindy on lifetotals. It doesn't zone in on someone all that well but I think I will have to change my tactics a little against them as I have been drawing aggro from everyone else and not putting enough pressure on them to finish them off so it ends up me vs everyone and then the combo player just executes.... I think I need to focus in a bit more with my commander when facing that style of play.
DECK CHANGE:
Moonlight Bargain -> Feudkiller's Verdict the bargain is definately the worst of my card draw. Feudkiller keeps me drawing more cards off of the big pay whatever I want sort of stuff and it gives me a dude to block which I really like.
Painful Quandary -> Mobilization painful has been an enchant for a while now that literally just drops in play and gets answered on spot. I haven't been hitting people as hard with it as I want as its sort of a slower value over time effect and people have been answering it very harshly when played. I have been pleased with the Mesa though so I figured I would give another one a chance. There is a chance it should be a Bitterblossom instead which I haven't really made a call on yet but we will see...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Just to address some of my latest changes, Feudkiller's Verdict has been really amazing in the one time I got to cast it since adding it to the list. I didn't "need" the 10 life but it pushed me back to where I was comfortable as I had been down to the low 30s when I popped it and jumped back up nicely. The token then got a lot of work done. Unlike Wurmcoil Engine, it doesn't actually generate any value other than lower opponents life totals or block for me so it has been fairly effective as a vanilla beater. I think I swung out like 4 times with him for some nice work on life totals. It even served as a blocker for a few turns for me which is useful. Mobilization has been.... acceptable so far in testing. I ended up just taking a few less beaters with it in play. It doesn't draw all that much attention either so its been acceptable but I was still annoyed with a few flyers that came over top. I haven't been as sold on the Mobilization but its not been bad for me so far either. I want more testing for sure on it as I could see the small pokes of vigilant tokens being useful. What I like about it though is it gives me a chance to just not commit more to the board and ride the value I have in play. This lets me get some work with Obzedat in and more land drops / cards drawn with little backlash.
DECK CHANGES:
Rune-Scarred Demon -> Praetor's Grasp the dang demon gets stolen and cloned from me far more often than I like. It also eats up entire turns for a beat stick that I am not overly fond of. It seems to be more annoying to me than it is an asset. I like the Grasp as I can exile something early on and save it for later. We have been using more wheel effects in our meta which is annoying so it can help against that. I can steal someone else's Debt to the Deathless and just wait for end game to cast it from exile as a surprise. It also gives me access to more Necropotence which I am always fond of.
Orzhov Signet -> Caged Sun I realized that I don't need to be overly fast in this deck and often have regretted the fact that some of my mana stones are very small and fast. I figured I would see if the Cage works out for me. I have Urborg and a lot of fixers so I could see it having good effect. I like also that it pumps my commander in size which is useful. I see this as powerful but am worried as well about just how big of a target it usually ends up being as well.
Arena of the Ancients -> Rest in Peace the arena has just not been useful like 80-90% of games so far. I tend to not even bother with it so clearly it needs to go out. I don't bother much with recovery either in here so I figured some strong grave hate might be worth playing around with. I am not sold that this shouldn't be a Relic of Progenitus but testing will show. I like the power of Rest in Peace but it can be a dud if people aren't abusing graveyards where the relic draws a card.
Coalition Relic -> Kor Cartographer been having issues with people blowing up nonlands so swapping to land ramp should help. It also gives me a blocker. This deck draws aggro like crazy since its tactic is to poke at everyone.
Ghostly Prison -> Wall of Reverence the prison was mostly a deterrent to try to keep life. I think the wall will act as a deterrent and give me life so I am interested to see the change here. Ghostly mostly works against token strategies and on average its not what I am currently facing. Its sort of annoying though that the wall has 6 toughness though as that's fairly standard EDH fatty size.... Still, I think it will keep a lot of guys off of me.
A few more changes for the deck. I have played a few games since the last change but not enough to really give much for feedback on changes yet. I did notice a few other things I wanted to move around though.
DECK CHANGES:
Caged Sun -> Sword of Feast and Famine After my last deck changes I realized that the sword seemed like better mana generation generally for me. It also gives me some better output on my commander as green and black protections are great for punching through with. My only real concern is that it will increase the chance of people mazing Obzedat for other people just to keep me off the untap option. Time will tell I suppose.
Wurmcoil Engine -> Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Wurmcoil had been annoying me for a while now because of the fact that it just gets nuked off the board with extreme prejudice. I can never keep this guy and he is usually stolen / exiled right away. His value was just too slow to work out for me. Tokens have been helping me a lot more of recent and I like Sorrin's flavor for this deck as I can drop chump tokens and I can drop anthems for my guys. Obzedat hitting harder is nice as he can then trade with the 6/6s of the format after this or just hit people harder both of which are good. I considered Elspeths for this slot but I find Sorrin interesting and I have never used him so I figure I will give him a shot before defaulting back to the elspeth options.
Darksteel Sentinel -> Massacre Wurm I decided that tokens are more of a concern for this deck than a few small creatures / whatever. I really like that the wurm fits the theme too and can just take out a token themed deck on his own.
Rest in Peace -> Honor the Fallen I decided I liked the surprise factor of Honor the Fallen and that it fit the theme of the deck better here. I also have very few creatures in the list so it keeps my utility stuff in the grave that I would want to recover is usually noncreature based. I am also interested to see how much lifegain I might be able to do off of it. The power of the exile isnt as powerful since its a one time effect but it has the surprise factor plus the lifegain for me here.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Elspeth Tirel were both high in my consideration as well as possible changes to in this change as well. My token defenses have been going up of late as they have been a productive way to low commit to the board but planeswalkers still worry me a bit as they tend to pull some threat to themselves. I will sort of experiment with them and see if they might be something I want to add in the future though.
Also as a side note on the tokens, Vault of the Archangel is really fun with them and it works as a great rattlesnake on defense.
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Welcome to Orzhova life matters.deck. I am currently reworking some of this thread to expand on the information I provide here but the general premise of the deck is to sap the life out of its opponents via lifestealing and mass damage everywhere via pestilence effects. Feel free to shoot me any questions you might have on it. I have been through a lot of renditions of this deck but its a lot of fun. This is still sort of being worked on so I apologize if things are still incomplete.
Pros of Obzedat:
Cons of Obzedat:
Alternative Commanders:
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Oloro is a decent commander for sure. My issue with him is that most players I have seen using him have to either 1) not play him and just use him for the life buffer or 2) play him out assuming he will be tucked / killed very quickly after casting him. He is a good commander but I just havent really seen him do that much overall when I have seen others play him. He is generally used as a means to stay in the game later via the lifegain but nobody wants to let him stick to the board because of the card drawing he can do. I also happen to have built heavily on pestilance effects which require a heavy black committment so it would be difficult to port that strategy into three colors and not be splashing very lightly or not using a color at all.
Ghost Council of Orzhova - I used to actually have a Ghost Council of Orzhova deck so I can speak from experience. In my mind, Ghost Council of Orzhova is superior at being a creature based deck as well as being a sacrifice style of deck. I do really enjoy the playstyle of Ghost Council of Orzhova but in the end, I did not like how much work it was to try to keep him in play as if anyone used a sweeper I found him vulnerable again after he returned to play. I spent a lot of time just trying to keep people from having access to my commander who acted as my primary sacrifice outlet. I really enjoy the way that Obzedat happens to function in that he is a fire and forget style of creature that just sort of evades a lot of the incidental removal on his own.
Mono Black Commanders - The benefit of running a mono black commander is that your manabase is much easier to handle so if you do end up with a pestilance style of build you can easier juggle those effects as well as use better mana doubling tactics. The downside is that most of them will be a black goodstuff commander that you just happen to push in the direction of lifestealing and mass damage. Its something to consider though for sure as the landbase does simplify quite a bit and its easier to hit bigger mana numbers for the big X effects.
Why I chose Obzedat:
Personally, I really like BW's life siphoning tactics. When wizards got to RTR block I was really excited for a potential second release of Ghost Dad. I was originally actually very displeased with how Obzedat turned out from an EDH perspective but I ended up changing my mind later. When I used to play Ghost Council of Orzhova I was constantly having issues with trying to keep my commander in play and playing creatures essentially just to make sure I had something I could sacrifice to keep him around. It was a lot of work and so when I did finally try out Obzedat I was pleased with how he was more fire and forget rather than something I needed to maintain. It also opened me up to running more creature light in my build which I appreciated the extra freedom in building. Moving forward to more recently, I really enjoy Obzedat's ability to poke at my opponents both with his life stealing abilities as well as with his random swings for damage. I have considered moving to something like Oloro, Ageless Ascetic before but the problem with that is that it makes my build of being black heavy and pushing pestilence effects very difficult. In the end, the tactics that I use in this deck are not unique in that they could not be adapted to another commander but moving up in colors makes the build very difficult to continue so if I were to change commanders and keep the build it would likely be to another BW commander or down to mono black. Obzedat just seems to fit the build the best for me though as he helps put additional pressure on one player or sort of balance out someone who might be gaining life. I really enjoy Obzedat in this build because he fits the theme very well and is still fire and forget in that I dont have to cast him a lot but he does good work with even just one cast and doesn't rely on additional cards to get his own value.
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
CREATURE (19)
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Wall of Omens
1 Burnished Hart
1 Crypt Rats
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Sun Titan
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Pestilence Demon
ARTIFACT (14)
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Well of Lost Dreams
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Caged Sun
1 Animate Dead
1 Aura of Silence
1 Necromancy
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Greed
1 Pestilence
1 True Conviction
1 Price of Knowledge
INSTANT (7)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Oblation
1 Return to Dust
1 Necrologia
SORCERY (11)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Vindicate
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Debt to the Deathless
1 Syphon Mind
1 Promise of Power
1 Austere Command
1 Merciless Eviction
LAND (39)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 High Market
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Kor haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Phyrexian Tower
5 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
10 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
Strategy:
There are a lot of elements to the deck and how you might consider building and or playing it. I will run through several elements on gameplay strategies as well as deck construction here. If there is anything you feel I dont answer, dont hesitate to ask.
Utilizing Obzedat:
Obzedat is what I like to consider a fire and forget style of commander. He generally doesn't need to be cast very much in a game and doesn't really need any assistance beyond being cast to get his work done. While fire and forget commanders are often goodstuff in nature, Obzedat fits the theme of the deck nicely and does a lot of work on his own.
Stats: Obzedat is a 5/5 for 1WWBB which is really not that impressive to be honest. Lots of beater class creatures like the titan cycle will outclass him in size but he also tends to outclass many utility based creatures with his size. He lacks evasion which means that he will literally trip over anything and everything that gets in his way but his blink evasion keeps him out of wraths making him able to connect for hits through a wrath heavy meta.
Where he Shines: Obzedat is fantastic in a wrath heavy meta. I run the deck as sort of a wrath heavy deck as well due to all of the pestilance effects in it. Each turn he should always leave play and it makes any situations where the board gets overrun and wrathed all the better as there tends to be someone without a creature after a wrath so just run him in there for some quick and easy damage.
How to Play Him: whenever possible, connect to someone's face with Obzedat. Always try to gauge what the likelihood of someone using a blocker and what it might be. You can often gauge if they will block or not but occasionally I will focus on the player who has a bad blocker like a Glen Elendra Archmage or Oracle of Mul Daya who I think its unlikely they would want to block with them.
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Peacekeeper
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Rhox Faithmender
1 Seht's Tiger
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Archon of Justice
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Divinity of Pride
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Treasury Thrull
1 Angel of Despair
1 Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
ARTIFACT
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Coalition Relic
1 Mind's Eye
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Land Tax
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Attrition
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Crackdown
1 Divine Presence
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Oppression
1 Path of Bravery
1 Planeswalker's Mirth
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Words of Worship
1 Dark Suspicions
1 Death Match
1 Eye of Singularity
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Grave Pact
1 Kismet
1 Lifeblood
1 Parallax Wave
1 Debtors' Knell
INSTANT
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tithe
1 Dawn Charm
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Shred Memory
1 Lapse of Certainty
1 Mortify
1 Prismatic Strands
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Hatred
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Dust to Dust
1 Lingering Souls
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Survival Cache
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Obzedat's Aid
1 Terminus
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Phthisis
1 Army of the Damned
1 Decree of Pain
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Storm Herd
PLANESWALKER
1 Gideon Jura
Sorin Markov ideally, he probably should be in the list but I have such a strong dislike for the guy that I just refuse to use him. I would rather do an infinite combo and win than use this guy. He fits the deck well though and if you dont share my dislike for him I would say he probably belongs here.
I am sure the list could use some changes yet but so far it has been working out really well with a cool style of play.
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[Modern] Allies
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Personally, I dont really care for it much. I dont like too many cards that need the support of lifegain as well to make them work as it feels too much like I am trying to assemble something. Also, Obzidat flickers in and out making him not a great target for it and I dont run all that many creatures. So, overall I would say probably not as keen on it.
EDIT: Vizkopa Guildmage and Well of Lost Dreams are sort of the few that come to mind that I run that are more or less lifegain supporting. Both of which just have really a huge impact though if they can stick though. I think the Cradle is cool but I think it has to stick longer to really see the results of it.
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[Modern] Allies
Are you intentionally avoiding the Viszkopa-Exquisite Blood combo? And, of course, there's Exquisite's twin sibling Sanguine Bond.
Necromancer's Covenant kills a graveyard and gives you (often) a lot of Lifelink-y dudes. Plus gives your other zombies lifelink. Flavourful for this deck.
Not sure I'd rather spend an extra mana and cast Sorin's Vengeance over Feudkiller's Verdict. The immediate 10 damage is more tempting to me than a vanilla 5/5, except, perhaps, if you have the Batterskull out.
Finally, I've always found Sword of War and Peace gains me a lot of life, in addition to its nice set of additionals.
This is a pretty trim list, though, so all my suggestions seem pretty tenuous to me.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Exquisite Blood / Sanguine Bond I found both of them to be slow and really dependant on other lifegain sources. I dont really care much for effects that rely on lifegain to work so I stayed away from these effects as I found myself having to slow roll into over extending with them in play. I just had too hard of a time setting them up with other good cards and getting the value from them. I also dont particularly like comboing off so that isnt really a plus here. I did play them for a while though and just found them sitting in my hand too much.
Necromancer's Covenant I really wish it hit more than just the creatures in graveyards.... my concern is that its sort of a super late game card in my opinion. I just dont really like relying on my opponents to have a specific setup for it to work but it has some potential. Usually though I would rather just have the Army of the Damned or graveyard removal for either situation though is my concern. I feel like adding another tutor would be more effective than it specifically.
Sorin's Vengeance over Feudkiller's Verdict - this is actually an interesting suggestion. I guess I had not really considered Sorin's Vengeance originally. I might need to think a bit more about this one. While the direct damage is nice, being able to defend myself with a 5/5 is also potentially useful.
Sword of War and Peace - I might have originally underestimated this effect. The life gained from effects usually turns into more draw power so dumping life into draw thus turns right back into making life back here. You have a good point here. I will see if I can make some room here.
DECK CHANGE:
Bloodgift Demon -> Sword of War and Peace I had been running the Demon and Graveborn Muse and been having issues with both of them in the fact that they are extremely easy to remove and thus difficult to get consistant draw from.
With this change I keep questioning if Disciple of Bolas will be able to continue to stay in the list or not... I have had to drop my own commander to him a few times and while its not a terrible move I generally would like a few more creatures to use him.
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[Modern] Allies
Slaughter
Divinity of Pride
polluted bonds
Beacon of Immortality - It could possibly be better than some of the lifegain I have like Feudkiller's Verdict. Pure lifegain though sort of worries me as usually I want something that has other elements to it. Its one of the biggest one shot lifegain effects I will likely see.
Slaughter the nonblack worries me here. Otherwise I agree its cool. I had it in my consideration early on but I cut it in favor of just having the cheap one mana exile removal.
Divinity of Pride I ran it early on, its cool that its big but its slow enough that I wasnt all that impressed by it. I have a hard enough time with Serra Ascendant and Wurmcoil in the list as is. I ran into too many situations where people answered them. Serra has the advantage of being really cheap to spin off and can drop super early, and the wurmcoil often splits when it dies. I just couldnt really see the same advantages for Divinity.
polluted bonds I probably should replace Shattered Angel with this.... It gives almost as much life but more importantly it steals it from opponents and it isnt a creature making it less prone to some types of removal.
I considered him early on but I lack sac outlets and rez. Generally speaking I dont really like having to throw him out and see how it goes. Too much theft, exile, tuck, and clones in my meta for that sort of thing. I think he is a cool creature but I usually want to be invested in sac outlets / rez for him.
thats an interesting idea.... Usually I find Emeria difficult to use in multicolored decks though. I will think about it but I think I would want to ramp up my plains count to really give it any real consideration here.
DECK CHANGE:
Shattered Angel -> Polluted Bonds its less lifegain but it hurts opponents and its on an enchantment instead of a creature which is nice.
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[Modern] Allies
Since I'm likely not gonna build this (hate feeling like I'm copying someone) I'm curious how you've been finding Skeletal Scrying. I've never had much success with this card.
I'm also curious why you didn't include Crypt Ghast. Feels like he'd fit the curve and style of this deck well.
Level 1 Judge
what can I say, I build a ton of decks. I would never let someone else's list dissuade you from building something though. I usually just ignore other people's lists when I go to build something new.
Skeletal Scrying - I run creature light and rez light so I dont really need much out of my graveyard other than the occasional Sun Titan / Yag Win stuff. I like that its instant speed and I can bluff other things while I sit behind it. I havent gotten to really use it much yet in this deck because I usually have other good draw going on when I have it but I run a TON of draw in this deck trying to keep chaining it into more draw. I havent gotten to test it much yet but I have used it before in other decks decently.
Crypt Ghast I tried running him but the problem I have is that he is really really fragile and I run somewhat rez light here. I want more robust extort but I just wasn't feeling it with him.
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[Modern] Allies
As an aside will you be running the new vampire that was just spoiled when it comes out, cause he was basically what made me think of building something like this.
Level 1 Judge
Generally speaking, I like every deck I have to play differently so I usually try to go for sort of a unique theme of playstyle to my decks. Its not much fun to reproduce the same deck several times in my opinion as I would usually rather just play my deck that does it the best than have three versions of it.
Due to this, sometimes I do some crazy builds.
DECK CHANGE:
Angelic Chorus -> Venser's Journal the lifegain should actually be very similar. The big difference though is that the journal adds in the option of a huge hand and a bigger turn by turn life payoff. I keep moving to a more creature light setup so it seems like it should be a good change as they both take effect at the same time and the Journal has potential to add a lot more to the deck.
Harvester of Souls -> Darksteel Sentinel I have always been a fan of the Sentinel in the fact that he is both offensive and defensive and draws very little hate. He blocks for me like a champ as well which is one thing I really like. He sends utility creatures and non evasive beaters elsewhere just by being around. I just sort of lack the ability to really abuse the Harvester in a creature light deck.
Disciple of Bolas -> Vindicate somehow or another I had had some issues making room when I first made the list so it seems as good a time as any to get it in the list.
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[Modern] Allies
Thank you for Necrologia. Didn't know it existed before but is a great black draw, especially for this build.
Finally, from personal experience, Beacon of Immortality is great. I would run it over Feudkiller's Verdict and see how it plays out for you.
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
Renounce the Guilds normally I would be focusing more on this in a mono colored deck but as my commander flickers in and out it actually makes this a lot better. It gives me a chance to potentially drop multiple commanders at instant speed. My worry here though is that I also see a lot of mono colored decks in my meta. This seems like a little bit of a meta call type of card but it also works really well against voltron commanders. Right now I stand at interested but I could definitely see it going either way for me. I would like to do some testing with it though as I could see some positive results from it at first glance.
Riot Control lifegain and a fog in one shot. On the upside as well it gives life for all opposing creatures which is nifty. On the downside, generally speaking you have to sit on fogs for some time before they are usable. Generally speaking I dont run them due to that but its interesting.
Crypt Incursion instant speed, mass graveyard purge, plus it has lifegain on it.... I like this effect a lot and I think it could be really cool. It has some competition though as black / white has good grave hate already. I dont really abuse graveyards myself much either so it could be hard to include as it would have to beat out something like Relic of Progenitus. Still, its a useful effect with lifegain on it as well so its interesting here.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa this guy is cool but definately designed more for standard play. He will have a hard time getting his p/t buff so generally speaking we have a 4/4 lifelinker. Protections dont really matter for much in EDH where wraths drop all the time so Serra Ascendant beats the pants off this guy and Divinity would likely make the list again far before I would consider this guy.
Debt to the Deathless so.... a more potent Exsanguinate... Well, I am sold already.
Obzedat's Aid so this is quite the interesting card. It can serve a lot of different roles and doesn't require me to be really creature based which is really cool. It sort of reminds me of Yawgmoth's Will in a lot of ways. I think its a good rez effect in a deck like this where I dont run as many creatures but I dislike how its a rez from my graveyard only where as something like Beacon of Unrest could give me a few options from any graveyard. Unfortunately I have not been able to really make up my mind on this card yet but I think its a strong candidate for consideration.
Orzhov Cluestone its an interesting stone as a lot of my cards I am trying to ramp into do sort of land in the 5+ range here but the cycle off effect feels a little overpriced. Mindstone is another good option to consider in its place and it costs less to drop / pop. Its a big question of how important I find the colored mana I guess. I dont find it better than the stones I already have though but its interesting to see new stone options.
DECK CHANGES:
Feudkiller's Verdict -> Debt to the Deathless I think Feudkiller is cool but the opportunity to add a second (AND MORE POWERFUL) Exsanguinate is too good to pass up. It fits the deck exactly to what I am trying to do which is hit my opponents and gain some life. I was literally blown away when I saw this card spoiled as it absolutely screamed to be added to this deck.
I am only committing to one change at the moment. I was surprised to see that an uncommon was the one card that I was really excited for but it just fit the deck a lot better than the other cards that were spoiled did. I am still sort of on the fence on my thoughts of Obzedat's Aid and Renounce the Guilds.
ON THE BLOCK:
Massacre Wurm he is cool but I have yet to really ever get any big results from him. I dont see as much token though in my meta right now as I once did though.
Sword of War and Peace I just havent seen much for results yet. I will hang in there and see if I cant get some play with it but so far I am unsure of it. My creature count keeps going down and the protections it gives totally suck. Plus with Obzedat I have to reequip every turn so the protections really dont work anyways against spot removal.
Army of the Damned with having Debt to the Deathless added to my arsenal, it really makes me question if I need army anymore. Cutting this would lower my curve which would be nice and last time I used army it just provoked two turns of wraths on it which wasn't very productive.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Army of the Damned -> Cabal Coffers with the addition of Debt to the Deathless, I just haven't felt like I am needing to put as much pressure on opponents with things like Army. Coffers gives me more access to crazy mana to slam a huge Debt to the Deathless / Exanguinate too which is always nice.
Skeletal Scrying -> Weathered Wayfarer I run a lot of nonbasic lands that are really nice to be able to toolbox into. Especially when trying to hit crazy big mana it helps to be able to tutor up coffers and Urborg. I like the Scrying in theory but I kept seeing it when I had better draw engines already online. Its a good card but I am going to try dropping it for now and seeing how things go.
Sword of War and Peace -> Beseech the Queen I have a lot of times wished I just had another tutor for a little more consistency. I draw really well in here but with so few tutors I was having a hard time pinpointing cards I wanted specifically. I dont want to go too crazy on tutors here but the increase in consistency is nice. Sword had been giving me issues with how bad the protections were. Plus Obzedat keeps flickering so most of the point of pro white is against spot removal so it doesn't even work there.
Massacre Wurm -> Akroma, Angel of Wrath the wurm hits the theme of the deck for sure but I was having a lot of issues really using him. There have been less token decks running around of late and while there are still some, I dont like how I cant really control who I want to be hitting with him. If he had been hitting more opponents hard or the ones I want him to be then it might be different but too often I have disliked how he has worked for me. Akroma on the other hand gives me another nice life total pressure creature who can defend me. I tax a lot of people's life totals with a lot of things so she gives me yet another poke.
Plains -> Boseiju, Who Shelters All with the addition of Debt to the Deathless to the deck people are sort of freaking out about possibly needing to run more counterspells in their decks lol. The damn thing is just absolutely backbreaking. I think it actually warrants the inclusion of Boseiju on its own. I have a few ways to make it so I can use Boseiju without taking the life hits so it should be interesting to test out.
Somehow I had my original land count off by like 3 lands so I updated that too. Perhaps 40 lands a little extreme but for now its ok by me. There is a chance I might end up cutting 1-2 of them for things like Land Tax / Tithe though.
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Avacyn, Angel of Hope my biggest annoyance is that everyone and I mean everyone tries to kill her immediately. Generally speaking when I drop her, it doesn't even matter what my board state is she usually dies within the turn rotation. She dies to clones and premium white removal and both of which are popular in my meta. I really like what she does but she just dies on me far too easily. I like her though for a nice vigilant beater but Akroma does good for me at that roll and draws less hate generally.
Pontiff of Blight I like him but I run creature light and rez light. It would be difficult to see much for results from him. I like seeing a little faster results from my creatures as well and I just feel like his results are a little slow for my own taste.
Reveillark If I wasnt as creature light I would consider it. However I have really sort of a low creature count in the deck. Generally speaking its not something I can use her or I would probably try to get him in.
Thrull Parasite I love extort but I dont like it on small body do nothing creatures. Too many of the extort options are do nothing creatures which is why I am not running them. They die too easily and often for my own like.
Whitemane Lion if I was more focused on extort specifically it could be an option. I currently only run one actual card with extort though. The same for extension on the other guys. I have sort of a low creature curve as well making these guys a little less useful for me in general.
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Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I am assuming you are referring to Children of Korlis? Its true that they would be really cool in a situation such as Necropotence in play or getting ready to run out a Necrologia, I dont have a lot of cards that really interact with them and I am not playing rebels here. If I had more outlets that really dumped a lot of life into them then I think I would be more willing to consider them but currently I really only have two really big life drop effects in my list where I can drop a lot of life in one shot to.
Its a cool idea and sort of in theme, I just dont think I have enough ways to abuse them currently.
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DECK CHANGE:
Praetor's Grasp -> Ghostly Prison there isn't really a single card that I can usually name that this deck needs that my opponents reliably have. Necropotence is probably the one card I mostly always want but my opponents don't always have it so I am less keen on keeping this tutor. Propaganda effects are surprisingly annoying to swing into and have been getting more popular in the group I am with currently. There are plenty of times where there are sudden large armies of dudes but if you have to pay for each attacker it usually turns entire waves of dudes to someone else.
Beseech the Queen -> Wall of Omens Besseach is my least favorite tutor as its very black intensive, not super cheap, and I have to reveal what I tutor for. The wall is a fast cantrip card drawing blocker which I like. Sometimes just having a single body on the ground is all I really need.
Polluted Bonds -> Rout the bond is amusing but it costs a lot of mana for a very slow rolling effect. I like the effect but its something that you really want early on and it gets less impressive later as well as costing a lot of mana for something that doesn't really hurt a ton. Rout can bail me out at instant speed which I am very interested in.
Vizkopa Guildmage -> Everflowing Chalice the deck needed more ramp and I have never really had a setup where the guildmage is what I needed or wanted. The mage is cool but its something thats good in an already good situation.
Batterskull -> Sacred Mesa batterskull has been sort of oddly expensive to cast and use. I don't really want to equip it to much of anything and it gets hated on a lot due to its ability to bounce back to hand. I like it in decks that draw less cards that need extra things to do but that hasn't been here. The Mesa might seem like an odd add but it can fort up really nice. I considered Bitterblossom instead however only one creature a turn and only at my upkeep can go a few different ways. Generally though I want to be able to stack out blockers as necessary. It also helps me against some of those pesky eldrazi annihilate triggers and such. Once I have my commander flickering in and out I can usually just try to fort up and survive so I think that the Mesa is the better pick at the moment as just pushing guys around me should work really nice with Obzedat leaching for me.
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[Modern] Allies
What do you think of a package including:
You don't have many creatures anyway and it's an asymmetrical effect with Obzedat. Might not be worth the amount of cards to make it work but seemed like an interesting interaction.
Good question, generally speaking tapping and untapping are hard to really control how good they can be. Things like Kismet work really well against haste and in combination with other things that keep things from untapping. Meekstone and some of those type of effects can be useful but only if the first swing wont be lethal to you.
I run Blind Obedience myself but mostly for the Extort option on it. Generally speaking even with that, it gets answered very very quickly for some reason for me. I don't know if I would be willing to include a version of the card that didn't have the extort on it.
Some of them are ok, I think most of them are sort of meta calls though. I really like Arena of the Ancients due to the fact that it taps down and keeps them tapped but even then, about half of the players or more have little effect from this that I play against.
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DECK CHANGE:
Moonlight Bargain -> Feudkiller's Verdict the bargain is definately the worst of my card draw. Feudkiller keeps me drawing more cards off of the big pay whatever I want sort of stuff and it gives me a dude to block which I really like.
Painful Quandary -> Mobilization painful has been an enchant for a while now that literally just drops in play and gets answered on spot. I haven't been hitting people as hard with it as I want as its sort of a slower value over time effect and people have been answering it very harshly when played. I have been pleased with the Mesa though so I figured I would give another one a chance. There is a chance it should be a Bitterblossom instead which I haven't really made a call on yet but we will see...
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DECK CHANGES:
Rune-Scarred Demon -> Praetor's Grasp the dang demon gets stolen and cloned from me far more often than I like. It also eats up entire turns for a beat stick that I am not overly fond of. It seems to be more annoying to me than it is an asset. I like the Grasp as I can exile something early on and save it for later. We have been using more wheel effects in our meta which is annoying so it can help against that. I can steal someone else's Debt to the Deathless and just wait for end game to cast it from exile as a surprise. It also gives me access to more Necropotence which I am always fond of.
Orzhov Signet -> Caged Sun I realized that I don't need to be overly fast in this deck and often have regretted the fact that some of my mana stones are very small and fast. I figured I would see if the Cage works out for me. I have Urborg and a lot of fixers so I could see it having good effect. I like also that it pumps my commander in size which is useful. I see this as powerful but am worried as well about just how big of a target it usually ends up being as well.
Arena of the Ancients -> Rest in Peace the arena has just not been useful like 80-90% of games so far. I tend to not even bother with it so clearly it needs to go out. I don't bother much with recovery either in here so I figured some strong grave hate might be worth playing around with. I am not sold that this shouldn't be a Relic of Progenitus but testing will show. I like the power of Rest in Peace but it can be a dud if people aren't abusing graveyards where the relic draws a card.
Coalition Relic -> Kor Cartographer been having issues with people blowing up nonlands so swapping to land ramp should help. It also gives me a blocker. This deck draws aggro like crazy since its tactic is to poke at everyone.
Ghostly Prison -> Wall of Reverence the prison was mostly a deterrent to try to keep life. I think the wall will act as a deterrent and give me life so I am interested to see the change here. Ghostly mostly works against token strategies and on average its not what I am currently facing. Its sort of annoying though that the wall has 6 toughness though as that's fairly standard EDH fatty size.... Still, I think it will keep a lot of guys off of me.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Caged Sun -> Sword of Feast and Famine After my last deck changes I realized that the sword seemed like better mana generation generally for me. It also gives me some better output on my commander as green and black protections are great for punching through with. My only real concern is that it will increase the chance of people mazing Obzedat for other people just to keep me off the untap option. Time will tell I suppose.
Wurmcoil Engine -> Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Wurmcoil had been annoying me for a while now because of the fact that it just gets nuked off the board with extreme prejudice. I can never keep this guy and he is usually stolen / exiled right away. His value was just too slow to work out for me. Tokens have been helping me a lot more of recent and I like Sorrin's flavor for this deck as I can drop chump tokens and I can drop anthems for my guys. Obzedat hitting harder is nice as he can then trade with the 6/6s of the format after this or just hit people harder both of which are good. I considered Elspeths for this slot but I find Sorrin interesting and I have never used him so I figure I will give him a shot before defaulting back to the elspeth options.
Darksteel Sentinel -> Massacre Wurm I decided that tokens are more of a concern for this deck than a few small creatures / whatever. I really like that the wurm fits the theme too and can just take out a token themed deck on his own.
Rest in Peace -> Honor the Fallen I decided I liked the surprise factor of Honor the Fallen and that it fit the theme of the deck better here. I also have very few creatures in the list so it keeps my utility stuff in the grave that I would want to recover is usually noncreature based. I am also interested to see how much lifegain I might be able to do off of it. The power of the exile isnt as powerful since its a one time effect but it has the surprise factor plus the lifegain for me here.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Elspeth Tirel were both high in my consideration as well as possible changes to in this change as well. My token defenses have been going up of late as they have been a productive way to low commit to the board but planeswalkers still worry me a bit as they tend to pull some threat to themselves. I will sort of experiment with them and see if they might be something I want to add in the future though.
Also as a side note on the tokens, Vault of the Archangel is really fun with them and it works as a great rattlesnake on defense.
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