Thinking about this deck today as a buddy of mine was talking about spellslinging UR. I also thought about the top 50 list and Dig through Time here. Thoughts?
Hey, it did just get banned in Legacy. Probably will get real cheap for us EDH players
Anyone still playing this type of deck? Just trying to find a balance between cards that just benefit general protection and damage and cards that promote the storm. Love the balance between the two ideas and it seems like shu yun, the silent tempest does not require the equipment so that might free some slots to additional cantrips that benefit either plan
I play the deck a lot less now (complaints of long turns, I can sympathize), but still have it together, and it makes the occasional appearance. I haven't really updated it in forever though, but it still works fine.
The problem (a bit, and it's a terrible problem to have) is that of all the build paths I've chosen with the deck over time, there are now commanders who simply do it better:
Wheels for win was always stronger with Niv 1.0 to begin with, but now Nekusar exists as a card as well.
Spellslinging Storm was taken over by Melek pretty handily, who incidentally also took over Storm Combo (can infinite off of just mystical tutor). Niv had curiosity combo since forever though, so that's no real loss.
Equipment Pings with Basilisk Collar and Neko-te is still viable, but again Niv 1 holds that strength well too.
Voltron Aggro - Well, Shu-Yun took that entire deck and does it all in one card. Let's be honest, he has Leering Emblem and Psychotic Fury built right in. You just want to add in a few more evasion spells instead. (He also does spell-tokens well, with the addition of Monastery Mentor compared to the standard Talrand and Pyromancer).
T&L always has the advantage of being less of an immediate threat, but they've gotten a little bit of infamy as well from this deck. To be honest, they were never the most cost efficient for their stats among legendary creatures (Even Olivia Voldaren can fit some of the archetypes, and she comes in with flying and damage built in as well).
Overall though, the UR storm is still fun to play, and T&L are still cheaper than many other commanders to drop in play, and the deck can win entirely without the Commander - so why put an extra target on your head? Further, most of the other options focus on one branch fairly intently (or two), T&L can take a more diversified approach and change it up a bit from game to game. (Shu Yun actually does that well too, as he can simply go Voltron without any dedication in the deck).
Shu Yun is definitely a high-tier commander though, and a monster in Tiny Leaders, if you're into that. The white can also help with some solid protection and disruption, which make the deck highly resilient. The addition of Silence for the turn you decide to go off can also be highly valuable protection.
Buyback, Xspells, even just getting 2-4 counters is enough for the deck and frees up a lot of the cost reducer slots. Keep a few of the cheaper ones in (because why not, plus they help him charge up), but after that he can just consistently explode.
Isn't this just a better, if slightly different, version of Melek? Granted, he does seem sick but the voltron plan is out the window now unlike with shu yun or t&l . Sometimes I just beat down with shu, the other deck or decks thinks I am a voltron deck so they spend resources dealing with him, then I explode with a storm out of nowhere.
thats a good question.... 2 might be over the top and past in flames might be better since it can be used twice in the same turn. but that overload makes them all freeeeee which is pretty sick after a mana geyser for 20.
Past in Flames will keep my #1 spot as it can easily be gotten off of intuition or Quiet Speculation. I don't think 2 of the effects is too much (If I ran black, I'd run Yawmoth's Will in a heartbeat), redundancy is good, but 2 may be about the limit that you want.
I'm more curious if Magus of the wheel is a worthwhile include, or if he's too slow without haste. Would he be better in the more voltron version, running alongside boots/greaves?
So, this is obviously in line with what the original master bobthefunny has created. This deck is only comprised of cards I own in real life, so no duals yet. Here are some of my thoughts on the deck and the list:
1. It is not trying to be the most competitive deck--my meta has some super good players and some really casual ones. In other words, I am choosing not to run Mizzix of the Izmagnus intentionally because I did that for a while and it really wasn't fun storming off every game. But, if thats fun for you there are already some awesome threads on that deck.
2. The first win-con is usually Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. This makes for an incredibly fun and challenging win con. I usually will only re-cast him once before I move onto other win cons. I wait until I can sort of protect him once and until I have a few cheap draws and evasive givers. Then, I try and go to town on at least 1 person at the table. Sometimes, I am able to just go off with him and Seize the Day and kill everyone, but that is pretty unusual. After Shu fails and becomes unbearable to cast I start setting up my Ignite the Memories win by getting 1 or 2 cost reducers and plenty of tutors for Past in Flames and Turnabout
3. I did not test at all with any of the token making creatures Talrand the Sky SummonerMonastery Mentor or Young Pyromancer originally but after I put them in I have never considered taking them out. One of the weaknesses to this deck is its board presence. People will remember the Shu attack or the Ignite Memories win and then start beating you mercilessly. The token making creatures stall that plan. They provide chumpers and some modest board presence so that you can survive long enough to get Shu through or storm out. Additionally, they can provide a formidable presence or, along with Runechanter's Pike provide an additional late-game win con.
4. Mana ramp/reduce. The artifact mana suite is something I am constantly debating--I love the speed they provide for the deck but the cost reducers are what really enable the Storm. I have been debating the moxen Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond to speed the deck up. I may cut some lands to fit those cards. Anyone have experience with them in this sort of deck? I also kind of want Grim Monolith and Mana Vault but just do not own them at the moment and have not tested with them enough. I love Thirst for Knowledge but am not sure how many artifacts I should be running to make that card great. Chump blocking and board presence is another reason why I am running Trinket Mage. It tends to fetch Top every time but that card is a boss in here. Plus, it can chump and carry a Pike in a pinch. Finally, the High Tide may seem a bit off but I have tweaked the mana base enough to make this card over the top at any point in the game really.
5. Low land count. The land count does seem low but with all the ramp, cost reducers, and draw/filter cards I have not had too much trouble with it. I am even considering cutting 1 more land and the Coalition Relic for a couple of the 0-cost moxen.
7. Lastly, I want to add that this deck is trying to be competitive but not overly so. My LGS just does not warrant it. However, I still want it to be damn good and fun. For that reason, as you can see in the addition cards on the fence, I am not including some boss storm cards. The deck would be faster and smoother with them but I would probably have to cut the token-makers and some of the stuff for Shu and I just don't want to do that.
I like the list! It seems as if you're just running a splash of white, which, honestly is all you need. It really helps tighten up that removal. It's really good to hear about your experiences with a fresh list of the archetype.
If you like the tokens, and heven't reached your peak yet, check out Goblinslide and Skywise Teachings. I haven't tried them yet personally, but they look interesting.
Not sure about those enchantments since they have activation costs. But, I might try them out.
Yeah, the white splash is slight but I think really important since it gives you access to superior removal, Monastery Mystic, and helps with the Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest activation cost. Plus, the mana base is not really harmed all that much. The card and strategy I am most debating are the artifact manas along with Trinket Mage and Thirst for Knowledge. I want to test Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Mana Vault to see if they help speed up the deck some.
I have to admit that Jori En looks pretty darn fantastic.
She's interesting in that she rewards spellcasting value over time, rather than the large burst of storm, or the more stagnant control lists (though she remains absolutely stellar at control, allowing you to keep card parity up every turn you use a counterspell - straight up crazy). I think she'll make an excellent Tempo commander.
It's also worth pointing out that she has good value in a straight up aggro/merfolk deck, acting as a personal howling mine with additional merfolk/wizard synergy. While it's tempting to try and maximize her value, even without triggering on each opposing turn, it's solid enough value.
I have upped the land count to 36 along with 11 ramp artifacts/reducers in addition to all the cheap draw spells. I think it's super important to consider the various components of the deck now with the much stricter mulligan rules.
I kinda want to test Jori En but don't think she is the card for this deck. But, it does seem like I spend a lot of time early game playing a couple of spells per turn setting things up and playing defensively. I think there is a diminishing returns on the number of unblockable type spells we can run and I think Slip through Space is not as good as the top 3 imo (Shadow Rift, Distortion Strike, Artful Dodge)
How good is Spellweaver Volute in the more Voltron-oriented Storm type decks? It seems like a long-game value card that wouldn't be as good in decks that explode out of nowhere. Also, how many sorceries are needed to make it worth it--wonder if would need a bunch of flashback sorceries and Flame Jab or Oona's Grace? I want to do some testing with it since I have never played it and it seems awesome.
Also, if anyone is still playtesting this deck, how much removal/deterrents do you usually run? I have about 9 or so (including 3 couterspells) but I feel like a few extras could be really helpful. I am thinking of testing Evacuation and Illusionist's Gambit.
Jori would be a different build of the deck - more Tempo, less boom. Still a very interesting choice for R/U spells.
Slip Through Space can slide onto that list simply due to the card draw. If you're running the aggro version, then you usually only need one turn anyways. It's most definitely inferior to shadowrift, for the sole reason of being unable to use it on an opponent's turn (sometimes you need the card, sometimes you want to mess with blocks), but Distortion Strike doesn't draw a card, and can be awkward since it forces your set up into next turn. If you fail to kill someone, and then they remove your threat, it gets left hanging. Having the Slip in the GY for future flashback could be better.
Spellweaver Volute never got run in my aggro version, simply because I hadn't discovered it yet. Don't look at it as a value over time card, it is amazing burst. With Flame Jab, it gives every single instant in your graveyard flashback for R. That is insane. The fact that it doubles up the storm count, draws free cards, etc, is huge for the one-turn boom decks.
Also, Oona's is an instant.
Removal is always dependant on your meta, how fast you can go off, and how fast you're targeted. If you run Evac, run Archaeomancer and Mnemonic Wall. People love that. (they actually don't)
Hey, it did just get banned in Legacy. Probably will get real cheap for us EDH players
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The problem (a bit, and it's a terrible problem to have) is that of all the build paths I've chosen with the deck over time, there are now commanders who simply do it better:
T&L always has the advantage of being less of an immediate threat, but they've gotten a little bit of infamy as well from this deck. To be honest, they were never the most cost efficient for their stats among legendary creatures (Even Olivia Voldaren can fit some of the archetypes, and she comes in with flying and damage built in as well).
Overall though, the UR storm is still fun to play, and T&L are still cheaper than many other commanders to drop in play, and the deck can win entirely without the Commander - so why put an extra target on your head? Further, most of the other options focus on one branch fairly intently (or two), T&L can take a more diversified approach and change it up a bit from game to game. (Shu Yun actually does that well too, as he can simply go Voltron without any dedication in the deck).
Shu Yun is definitely a high-tier commander though, and a monster in Tiny Leaders, if you're into that. The white can also help with some solid protection and disruption, which make the deck highly resilient. The addition of Silence for the turn you decide to go off can also be highly valuable protection.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Thinking the same. .do we run both our just one of this and Past in Flames
I'm more curious if Magus of the wheel is a worthwhile include, or if he's too slow without haste. Would he be better in the more voltron version, running alongside boots/greaves?
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
1 Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Talrand, the Sky Summoner
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Guttersnipe
1 Goblin Electromancer
1 Trinket Mage
Artifacts
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Izzet Signet
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Coalition Relic
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Stone Calendar
Planeswalkers
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Enchantments
1 Mystic Remora
1 Jace's Sanctum
1 Future Sight
Instants/Sorceries
1 Apostle's Blessing
1 Shadow Rift
1 Defy Gravity
1 Seize the Day
1 Artful Dodge
1 Distortion Strike
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Impulse
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Compulsive Research
1 Frantic Search
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Dig Through Time
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Time Spiral
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Intuition
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wear//Tear
1 Snap
1 Oblation
1 Chaos Warp
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Arcane Denial
1 Vex
1 Forbid
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Turnabout
1 Ignite Memories
1 Past in Flame
1 Call to Mind
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Mystic Retrieval
Land
13 Island
4 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
1 Command Tower
1 Mana Confluence
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Temple of the False God
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
So, this is obviously in line with what the original master bobthefunny has created. This deck is only comprised of cards I own in real life, so no duals yet. Here are some of my thoughts on the deck and the list:
1. It is not trying to be the most competitive deck--my meta has some super good players and some really casual ones. In other words, I am choosing not to run Mizzix of the Izmagnus intentionally because I did that for a while and it really wasn't fun storming off every game. But, if thats fun for you there are already some awesome threads on that deck.
2. The first win-con is usually Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. This makes for an incredibly fun and challenging win con. I usually will only re-cast him once before I move onto other win cons. I wait until I can sort of protect him once and until I have a few cheap draws and evasive givers. Then, I try and go to town on at least 1 person at the table. Sometimes, I am able to just go off with him and Seize the Day and kill everyone, but that is pretty unusual. After Shu fails and becomes unbearable to cast I start setting up my Ignite the Memories win by getting 1 or 2 cost reducers and plenty of tutors for Past in Flames and Turnabout
3. I did not test at all with any of the token making creatures Talrand the Sky Summoner Monastery Mentor or Young Pyromancer originally but after I put them in I have never considered taking them out. One of the weaknesses to this deck is its board presence. People will remember the Shu attack or the Ignite Memories win and then start beating you mercilessly. The token making creatures stall that plan. They provide chumpers and some modest board presence so that you can survive long enough to get Shu through or storm out. Additionally, they can provide a formidable presence or, along with Runechanter's Pike provide an additional late-game win con.
4. Mana ramp/reduce. The artifact mana suite is something I am constantly debating--I love the speed they provide for the deck but the cost reducers are what really enable the Storm. I have been debating the moxen Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond to speed the deck up. I may cut some lands to fit those cards. Anyone have experience with them in this sort of deck? I also kind of want Grim Monolith and Mana Vault but just do not own them at the moment and have not tested with them enough. I love Thirst for Knowledge but am not sure how many artifacts I should be running to make that card great. Chump blocking and board presence is another reason why I am running Trinket Mage. It tends to fetch Top every time but that card is a boss in here. Plus, it can chump and carry a Pike in a pinch. Finally, the High Tide may seem a bit off but I have tweaked the mana base enough to make this card over the top at any point in the game really.
5. Low land count. The land count does seem low but with all the ramp, cost reducers, and draw/filter cards I have not had too much trouble with it. I am even considering cutting 1 more land and the Coalition Relic for a couple of the 0-cost moxen.
6. Here is a list of cards on the fence:
7. Lastly, I want to add that this deck is trying to be competitive but not overly so. My LGS just does not warrant it. However, I still want it to be damn good and fun. For that reason, as you can see in the addition cards on the fence, I am not including some boss storm cards. The deck would be faster and smoother with them but I would probably have to cut the token-makers and some of the stuff for Shu and I just don't want to do that.
If you like the tokens, and heven't reached your peak yet, check out Goblinslide and Skywise Teachings. I haven't tried them yet personally, but they look interesting.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Yeah, the white splash is slight but I think really important since it gives you access to superior removal, Monastery Mystic, and helps with the Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest activation cost. Plus, the mana base is not really harmed all that much. The card and strategy I am most debating are the artifact manas along with Trinket Mage and Thirst for Knowledge. I want to test Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Mana Vault to see if they help speed up the deck some.
She's interesting in that she rewards spellcasting value over time, rather than the large burst of storm, or the more stagnant control lists (though she remains absolutely stellar at control, allowing you to keep card parity up every turn you use a counterspell - straight up crazy). I think she'll make an excellent Tempo commander.
It's also worth pointing out that she has good value in a straight up aggro/merfolk deck, acting as a personal howling mine with additional merfolk/wizard synergy. While it's tempting to try and maximize her value, even without triggering on each opposing turn, it's solid enough value.
This set had some interesting cards, like Slip through Space as a second Shadow Rift, and Comparative Analysis as a cheaper Inspiration/Weave Fate.
Pyromancer's Assault makes a poor Guttersnipe, but may warrant testing, as it can hit utility creatures.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I kinda want to test Jori En but don't think she is the card for this deck. But, it does seem like I spend a lot of time early game playing a couple of spells per turn setting things up and playing defensively. I think there is a diminishing returns on the number of unblockable type spells we can run and I think Slip through Space is not as good as the top 3 imo (Shadow Rift, Distortion Strike, Artful Dodge)
How good is Spellweaver Volute in the more Voltron-oriented Storm type decks? It seems like a long-game value card that wouldn't be as good in decks that explode out of nowhere. Also, how many sorceries are needed to make it worth it--wonder if would need a bunch of flashback sorceries and Flame Jab or Oona's Grace? I want to do some testing with it since I have never played it and it seems awesome.
Also, if anyone is still playtesting this deck, how much removal/deterrents do you usually run? I have about 9 or so (including 3 couterspells) but I feel like a few extras could be really helpful. I am thinking of testing Evacuation and Illusionist's Gambit.
Slip Through Space can slide onto that list simply due to the card draw. If you're running the aggro version, then you usually only need one turn anyways. It's most definitely inferior to shadowrift, for the sole reason of being unable to use it on an opponent's turn (sometimes you need the card, sometimes you want to mess with blocks), but Distortion Strike doesn't draw a card, and can be awkward since it forces your set up into next turn. If you fail to kill someone, and then they remove your threat, it gets left hanging. Having the Slip in the GY for future flashback could be better.
Spellweaver Volute never got run in my aggro version, simply because I hadn't discovered it yet. Don't look at it as a value over time card, it is amazing burst. With Flame Jab, it gives every single instant in your graveyard flashback for R. That is insane. The fact that it doubles up the storm count, draws free cards, etc, is huge for the one-turn boom decks.
Also, Oona's is an instant.
Removal is always dependant on your meta, how fast you can go off, and how fast you're targeted. If you run Evac, run Archaeomancer and Mnemonic Wall. People love that. (they actually don't)
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek