Try the Boros Charm before you cut it. Maybe your meta sees more Austere Command effects than mine. Like I said, it's an absolute blowout when you get to use it, and Wild Research does let you search for it. Just try it and let me know how your experience goes.
Yes, Hive Mind into Pact does seem like a dick move, which is why I don't run it. Here's another one that you might find fun though: Final Fortune. From Gatherer:
"If multiple "extra turn" effects resolve in the same turn, take them in the reverse of the order that the effects resolved."
Everyone gets one turn to kill you.
I finally got to test it out last week... and all i can say is wow. this deck is so much fun, consistent and powerful. both were against my grim-grin tribal which isnt competitive but i wouldnt say its completely casual either. it blew it out of the water one game without even going epic, paradox haze+ humility+ assemble the legion. not even getting up to 10+ zombies a turn with endless ranks could keep up. and those were 1v1s, i couldnt imagine how fun this will be with multiple players.
with that being said i never even got boros charm, and i do like how its tutorable,but so is a counter. quite honestly i feel i might scrap it but time will tell when i actually draw it. asfor tunnel vision im kicking that out for mystical tutor most likely. its frustrating not getting enduring ideal and not being able to use wild research to find it or an enchantment or spell that can get it.
that final fortune trick is neat, i may make a side-deck for swapping or an mtgo version that uses all the dick combos and see how that goes lol. if i did that id take out all group hug and replace with numot, which ive still been thinking of. i hate to say it but i just dont like the chick Minotaur. ive also considered getting one altered maybe or doing a simple picture swap with numots in place =). maybe using numot for looks+ defense and less 'friendly' spells would eliminate the need for zedruu. with enough ramp artifacts i might be able to run something cool like progenitus just for the odd chance to cast him some game.
in the end i like how this deck runs but i feel myself more inclined to lean towards solo-development cards. i always cringe letting my opponent draw a card thinking it can be my doom.
so far i was thinking of a few changes but i wouldnt know what to cut yet as everything seems useful
+mystical tutor-another chance to go epic, and u can tutor for this with wild research
+enlightened tutor- same as above but for any enchantment i may need at a given time
?+gisela, blade of goldnight- i feel like this is a great stax card especially if its out after going epic. doubles your dmg and halves incoming.
?+ensnaring bridge-i feel like having another pillowfort will be beneficial but honestly i had one or two both games and it was enough
?+land equilibrium/land tax-better than everyone getting land right?
?+blind obedience-sets them back that much more plus a neat little plus with extort
Galspanic tricked me into coming to his place by PMing me nudes, I rushed over and they were all just playing magic. I said what the hell, took off my leather mask, shuffled up, and played a few games.
Hey! Just wanted to say that I love the list. I've tinkered with Zedruu before to little success; either feeling like a douche for donating Celestial Dawn or sitting around doing nothing for the game. I'm probably going to build my own deck quite similar to your list. I have a question though: What do you think of the following cards:
I saw that you were running Words of War and I immediately thought of the other cards in the cycle. I also figured that since you're using Enduring Ideal, Planeswalker's Mischief would be a good card to sink mana into.
so compared to my old listing i was considering some cuts and adds perhaps to make it less group hug, but remain with the same ideas and win-cons. I couldn't however change the general as Zedruu is extremely useful, even if you just donate tokens.
so i just need to pull out one or two more but i feel some of these cards are direct replacements in a more threatening form (oath into land tax). i dont play to many people that hate on enchantments so i dont have to worry about spot removal for all my good ones. they also tend to play decent decks with great generals so they will catch more aggro than my good deck with a decent general. I also tossed in sunforger to be able to tutor for situations including more tutors, counters, and spot removal or recurrence. lemme know what ya think about the swaps?
A lot of these are buff up zedruu just in case you are out of options. I love the deck and am looking at creating one myself. I love the impending disaster move as well if it goes through!
I wanted to thank everyone for the input. I've been swamped lately with work and extracurricular stuffs as well so I haven't had time to respond to everyone. This question, though, I can answer quickly.
Is Illusions of Grandeur too narrow and oneshot-y to use in the multiplayer setting?
Illusions is neat, but it doesn't win the game and it doesn't even kill anyone. Sure, you can get Venser out to blink it turn after turn and keep donating it, but this deck is capable of so much more!
That and I just dislike the whole strategy of giving people things that hurt them. It feels more like "dick move" than "that's cute."
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
welll...you're already playing form of the dragon and solitary confinement. Seems there's a conflict of interest between your ideaologies and how you've construct your deck.
welll...you're already playing form of the dragon and solitary confinement. Seems there's a conflict of interest between your ideaologies and how you've construct your deck.
Form of the Dragon allows me to go infinite.
Like I said, though, my largest objection is the feeling of "dick move." It just feels wrong.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Funny how you link me this. It's one of the list I've checked the most when building my List. If you check my signature you'd see that you have your mark in my deck. ^^
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I'm a huge fervent of TappedOut. Most of my link will link there.
Galspanic tricked me into coming to his place by PMing me nudes, I rushed over and they were all just playing magic. I said what the hell, took off my leather mask, shuffled up, and played a few games.
How about Show and Tell to cheat your enchantments or Ulamog into play quickly while making it look like you're trying to help everyone? where's mystical tutor to find Enduring Ideal? I would cut the twincast cards they don't seem to do anything other than react, because i know i would'nt wait an extra 2 turns to cast enduring ideal just so that i could copy it, but if you're insistent on them staying in i would just suggest wild ricochet.
so i actually got to do some changes today and will test tonight. it went a little like this and i plan on doing more when i can get the cards....
-tunnel vision +mystical tutor (a way better way to find what i need without the replenish gimmick)
-oath of lieges +tithe (can fetch it with forger and its one sided. will probably swap with land tax however when i get one)
-price of glory +blind obedience (people dont like land destruction, even if it doesnt ever hit them. they dont mind stall, plus i get to extort=))
-meishin, the mind cage +sunforger (i never cast it from my hand, and when i go epic i look for dovescape and humility before form. sunforger is just all around useful. pumping tokens to chump block then searching for an answer: tutors/removal/counters)
Other cards i plan to cut:
1. rule of law?- i feel like casting this makes me a target, and as ive already said about meishin, when i go epic i look for other answers.
2.star compass- i think the ramp is okay where its at in a somewhat casual multiplayer setting. plus this doesnt help with mana im missing.
3.otherworld atlas- im moving away from the group draw, and more on the one sided. the exception is temple bell as it doesnt involve some time to work/its cheaper. have to keep in one activated draw for mind over matter.
4.twincast?-dobes has a point. im not gonna wait to cast enduring ideal just so i can find this and double it. reverberate however is the same spell, and its searchable by sunforger, a new theme in my deck =) so sunforger acts as the second reverb/twincast.
Cards ill probably add:
1.enlightened tutor- uhm.. duh. i can finish off combos with this and use forger/research to find it. i can also use this to find the forger.
2.absorb-more searchable stopping power.
3.path to exile-searchable removal.
4.argivian find?-searchable recursion.
*land tax-to go in place of tithe most likely but definitely in.
after these changes i feel the deck will be more streamlined to what im seeking. i just need a sweet altered zedruu now =).
Here are some cards I was looking through my binder that looked pretty fun! I was seeing your opinion on them!! Thanks! I love the deck and I'm trying to make one around that!
Overburden - This could be interesting since you'll be returning people lands
Price of Glory - Another land destruction agent but could draw a lot of hate
Insurrection - A win counter in case things go to crap!
I really love the idea of this deck and am building something similar myself.
It seems like a pretty robust idea except for one detail, which is that after you go Epic, isn't it pretty easy for people to just hold their counterspells and counter copies of Enduring Ideal you cast every upkeep? Between three or four other players, a counterspell each turn isn't that hard to manage.
Along the same lines, it seems like Enduring Ideal should be cast with at least some counter backup. I understand that the original vision of the deck wants to minimise non-enchantment spells in the deck to make Replenish and such more potent, but still. Once people know your strategy, they know precisely which two spells they need to counter (and precisely which land to Wasteland, in Boseiju). Has this been an issue?
Along the same lines, it seems like Enduring Ideal should be cast with at least some counter backup. I understand that the original vision of the deck wants to minimise non-enchantment spells in the deck to make Replenish and such more potent, but still. Once people know your strategy, they know precisely which two spells they need to counter (and precisely which land to Wasteland, in Boseiju). Has this been an issue?
It's only slightly becoming an issue in the groups I regularly play against. Yes, everyone there knows my gameplan by now, but we all know each other's game plans. Our table always looks like a game of "Who's the Archenemy This Turn?" They don't worry about me until I look ready to cast my Ideal or if I've been dumping **** into my graveyard for a few turns.
I really think the Group Hug stuff has been doing a great job of keeping the emphasis off of me. Yes, it feeds people more answers to my crap, but it feeds the other people more threats to get answered. And yes, it has occasionally backfired and let the combo guy go off way too early (I've started to learn how much Hug is appropriate for each table).
So, do I need counter backup? I still don't think so, partly because Twincast and Reverberate are counter-counterspells. I've still got Boseiju, too. Yeah, they like to destroy it but they like to destroy other stuff as well. It's all about the timing.
What I think I do need is more tutors. I've been toying around with an entire tutor suite: Mystical, Enlightened, and Idyllic. They seem to make the deck much more consistent... and of course more threatening. I don't know if it's any more fun this way, though. I'm getting the deck to a point where it's definitely "above average" in my usual playgroup. It's hit or miss at the LGS where card pools are much larger, but I still feel like I'm winning more than my share of games.
I know I've been saying this for a while, but I really should be able to update the Primer this weekend. I'll be in Korea on a business trip with very little to do with my evenings otherwise.
Stay tuned, and I'm glad you've enjoyed the deck so far.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I realize but this is an enchantment deck, but I believe Taniwha has a place in any Zedruu list. He locks any opponent out of the game for a mere RWU per turn. Here's how it works:
1) Donate Taniwha.
2) Their lands phase out during their untap step.
3) Lands and Taniwha phase in. The lands are tapped/untapped as they were when they phased out.
4) When Taniwha phases in, he returns to your control.
5) Donate again. The cycle repeats, effectively neutering most decks as 1) they can't untap their lands 2) lands can't be used for 1/2 of their turns
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My Decks
Standard
:symr::symw::symu:Control:symr::symw::symu:
:symb::symw::symg:Midrange:symb::symw::symg:
Modern Decks
:symu::symr::symw:Delver:symu::symr::symw:
:symw::symg:Hatebears:symw::symg:
:symu::symr::symw:Breakfast at Urza's a.k.a. mEGGaTron:symu::symr::symw:
I realize but this is an enchantment deck, but I believe Taniwha has a place in any Zedruu list. He locks any opponent out of the game for a mere RWU per turn. Here's how it works:
1) Donate Taniwha.
2) Their lands phase out during their untap step.
3) Lands and Taniwha phase in. The lands are tapped/untapped as they were when they phased out.
4) When Taniwha phases in, he returns to your control.
5) Donate again. The cycle repeats, effectively neutering most decks as 1) they can't untap their lands 2) lands can't be used for 1/2 of their turns
That's not actually how it works. Two major problems.
First is that phasing won't change control of Taniwha. Also, when permanents phase in, they phase back in just before the untap step, so things will untap. Yeah, they won't have lands half the time, but they will have a 7/7 trample half the time. You're better off donating Celestial Dawn to someone who doesn't play white for locking them out of the game.
The second problem is that locking one player out doesn't actually win, and it's why I don't run Celestial Dawn. I'd rather drop something that locks the whole table or something that starts killing the whole table.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Just a real quick question here: Have you ever considered running Pentad Prism as a mana rock. It pays for itself if you use two different colors of mana, doesn't tap to add mana and is a great target to donate.
Just a real quick question here: Have you ever considered running Pentad Prism as a mana rock. It pays for itself if you use two different colors of mana, doesn't tap to add mana and is a great target to donate.
The only problem I see: Sphere can be reset with Venser, even after I have donated it. I don't know how relevant that ever will be. Probably not at all.
Let's say turn 2 I play Pentad with two charges. Then turn three is Coalition Relic. Turn four I would have access to 7 colored mana (eight if I made my fourth land drop). Either way I could conceivably go right into epic mode.
Yeah, that's going in.
EDIT:
And the update is official! See the updated list in the OP.
So, I finally broke and made room for some tutors and whatnot. I cut out some of my win conditions, so the deck will function more or less the same every game. I don't know how much that will appeal to me, but I'm going to try it anyway. I can always swap out win conditions packages between games if I really want to.
First, a couple actual replacements:
-Exotic Orchard
+Tithe - Tithe is as good as a land, so it took the spot of my least favorite.
-Font of Mythos
+Rhystic Study - Selfish card draw, and it's cheaper to boot.
-Confiscate
+Volition Reigns - More color intensive upgrade, but I never intend to hardcast this one.
-Decree of Silence
+Spell Crumple - Not usable after epic, but the ability to keep getting it back with Wild Research is worth trying.
Ok, then I took out all this stuff:
-Hive Mind
-Lucent Liminid
-Meishin, the Mind Cage
-Howling Mine
-Walking Archive
-Eldrazi Conscription
...for this stuff:
+Assemble the Legion
+Enlightened Tutor
+Idyllic Tutor
+Mystical Tutor
+Pentad Prism
+Torpor Orb
You will see that I took out the draw step draw stuff because Solitary Confinement shuts that off and I get Solitary Confinement online almost every game. Walking Archive also goes because he's too fragile and everyone else will draw before me. Hive Mind always feels like a Dick Move when I win with it (i.e. follow up with Enduring Ideal), and it backfires any time I don't. I have better ways to lock down a table than Meishin. Eldrazi Liminid seems to be my least reliable win condition, so to make room, those came out, too.
Last night I was playing a game on Trice and Otherworld Atlas did something for me that I never expected it would.
A guy running 5c Hermit Druid combo cast Final Fortune to be able to combo off and kill the table. He flipped his library, started doing his combo thing, and made it to the combat phase when I said "Everyone draw 3."
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Hey, I was going through the list by function and noticed Replenish on the list twice under Recursion and Wins, but I did the math and both lists are 99... but I can't figure out whats missing on the Function list that's on the main list. Now it's bugging me, heh..
Epic deck, trying to see what I have so I can make as close and I can to see how my playgroup handles it.
Hey, I was going through the list by function and noticed Replenish on the list twice under Recursion and Wins, but I did the math and both lists are 99... but I can't figure out whats missing on the Function list that's on the main list. Now it's bugging me, heh..
Dude, that took me way too long, but I figured it out. Thanks. I eventually just put the two lists into excel and alphabetized them. Turns out Mistveil Plains was missing from the function list. I'm still not sure whether Replenish belongs with Recursion or Winstuffs. I'm leaving it with Recursion for now, though.
I recently stumbled on Soul Snare. I'm not sure how I never saw it before, but it looks to be a fantastic rattlesnake and a great early turn play. It only exiles one thing, but in a four player game, it makes three players not want to be the first to attack you and lose a nice creature. It's not going to remove utility creatures, though. I want to fit it in, just what to take out?
Honden of Cleansing Fire has been on my radar for a while as something to take out. I'm finding myself all too often with it in hand and not needing it or having much better options to play. It really only exists to make the other Hondens stronger. That said, what else could be cut?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I recently stumbled on Soul Snare. I'm not sure how I never saw it before, but it looks to be a fantastic rattlesnake and a great early turn play. It only exiles one thing, but in a four player game, it makes three players not want to be the first to attack you and lose a nice creature. It's not going to remove utility creatures, though. I want to fit it in, just what to take out?
Honden of Cleansing Fire has been on my radar for a while as something to take out. I'm finding myself all too often with it in hand and not needing it or having much better options to play. It really only exists to make the other Hondens stronger. That said, what else could be cut?
As for Soul Snare, I'm kinda skeptical of enchantments that have a one-time effect. Something like Protective Sphere might get you more value. Sure, it can't help you to deal with mono-green or mono-black damage sources, but against RUW, it is a repeatable protection. Once they see how the card works, RUW players won't go for you because it will be a waste of their attack step.
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Currently Building:
WUBGR - Enchantment Realms - WUBGR
An all-enchantment EDH deck: 0 creatures, 0 artifacts, 0 instants and sorceries.
I finally got to test it out last week... and all i can say is wow. this deck is so much fun, consistent and powerful. both were against my grim-grin tribal which isnt competitive but i wouldnt say its completely casual either. it blew it out of the water one game without even going epic, paradox haze+ humility+ assemble the legion. not even getting up to 10+ zombies a turn with endless ranks could keep up. and those were 1v1s, i couldnt imagine how fun this will be with multiple players.
with that being said i never even got boros charm, and i do like how its tutorable,but so is a counter. quite honestly i feel i might scrap it but time will tell when i actually draw it. asfor tunnel vision im kicking that out for mystical tutor most likely. its frustrating not getting enduring ideal and not being able to use wild research to find it or an enchantment or spell that can get it.
that final fortune trick is neat, i may make a side-deck for swapping or an mtgo version that uses all the dick combos and see how that goes lol. if i did that id take out all group hug and replace with numot, which ive still been thinking of. i hate to say it but i just dont like the chick Minotaur. ive also considered getting one altered maybe or doing a simple picture swap with numots in place =). maybe using numot for looks+ defense and less 'friendly' spells would eliminate the need for zedruu. with enough ramp artifacts i might be able to run something cool like progenitus just for the odd chance to cast him some game.
in the end i like how this deck runs but i feel myself more inclined to lean towards solo-development cards. i always cringe letting my opponent draw a card thinking it can be my doom.
so far i was thinking of a few changes but i wouldnt know what to cut yet as everything seems useful
- tunnel vision
+mystical tutor-another chance to go epic, and u can tutor for this with wild research
+enlightened tutor- same as above but for any enchantment i may need at a given time
?+gisela, blade of goldnight- i feel like this is a great stax card especially if its out after going epic. doubles your dmg and halves incoming.
?+ensnaring bridge-i feel like having another pillowfort will be beneficial but honestly i had one or two both games and it was enough
?+land equilibrium/land tax-better than everyone getting land right?
?+blind obedience-sets them back that much more plus a neat little plus with extort
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
But just for those finishing move you have all my support. Awesome idea ^^
EDH Commanders:
Ridiculously Threatening Auras
Project Simic Experiment [№001384]
:symr::symw::symu:Zedruu, Candidate for Presidency:symr::symw::symu:
Trade Binder or Here
Words of Wind
Words of Worship
Planeswalker's Mischief
I saw that you were running Words of War and I immediately thought of the other cards in the cycle. I also figured that since you're using Enduring Ideal, Planeswalker's Mischief would be a good card to sink mana into.
+path to exile
+absorb
+sunforger
+mystical tutor
+enlightened tutor
+blind obedience
+land tax
+tithe?
+argivian find?
-tunnel vision
-boros charm
-oath to lieges
-meishin, the mind cage
-otherworld atlas
-star compass
-price of glory
so i just need to pull out one or two more but i feel some of these cards are direct replacements in a more threatening form (oath into land tax). i dont play to many people that hate on enchantments so i dont have to worry about spot removal for all my good ones. they also tend to play decent decks with great generals so they will catch more aggro than my good deck with a decent general. I also tossed in sunforger to be able to tutor for situations including more tutors, counters, and spot removal or recurrence. lemme know what ya think about the swaps?
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Winds of Rath - End game, and there's a lot of creatures out, just enchant Zedruu and wrath the board!
Flusterstorm
Sovereigns of Lost Alara -
Consecrated Sphinx
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Celestial Mantle
Daybreak Coronet
Muddle the Mixture
Reito Lantern
Diplomatic Immunity
Auratouched Mage
A lot of these are buff up zedruu just in case you are out of options. I love the deck and am looking at creating one myself. I love the impending disaster move as well if it goes through!
BSRKaalia 4-6 Player Multiplayer EDH Deck
USRRuhan 4-6 Multiplayer EDH Giant Deck
USBZur the Enchanter 4-6 Player Multiplayer EDH Deck
GSBDoran Tree Tribal 4-6 Multiplayer EDH Deck
Illusions is neat, but it doesn't win the game and it doesn't even kill anyone. Sure, you can get Venser out to blink it turn after turn and keep donating it, but this deck is capable of so much more!
That and I just dislike the whole strategy of giving people things that hurt them. It feels more like "dick move" than "that's cute."
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Form of the Dragon allows me to go infinite.
Like I said, though, my largest objection is the feeling of "dick move." It just feels wrong.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Funny how you link me this. It's one of the list I've checked the most when building my List. If you check my signature you'd see that you have your mark in my deck. ^^
EDH Commanders:
Ridiculously Threatening Auras
Project Simic Experiment [№001384]
:symr::symw::symu:Zedruu, Candidate for Presidency:symr::symw::symu:
Trade Binder or Here
-tunnel vision +mystical tutor (a way better way to find what i need without the replenish gimmick)
-oath of lieges +tithe (can fetch it with forger and its one sided. will probably swap with land tax however when i get one)
-price of glory +blind obedience (people dont like land destruction, even if it doesnt ever hit them. they dont mind stall, plus i get to extort=))
-meishin, the mind cage +sunforger (i never cast it from my hand, and when i go epic i look for dovescape and humility before form. sunforger is just all around useful. pumping tokens to chump block then searching for an answer: tutors/removal/counters)
Other cards i plan to cut:
1. rule of law?- i feel like casting this makes me a target, and as ive already said about meishin, when i go epic i look for other answers.
2.star compass- i think the ramp is okay where its at in a somewhat casual multiplayer setting. plus this doesnt help with mana im missing.
3.otherworld atlas- im moving away from the group draw, and more on the one sided. the exception is temple bell as it doesnt involve some time to work/its cheaper. have to keep in one activated draw for mind over matter.
4.twincast?-dobes has a point. im not gonna wait to cast enduring ideal just so i can find this and double it. reverberate however is the same spell, and its searchable by sunforger, a new theme in my deck =) so sunforger acts as the second reverb/twincast.
Cards ill probably add:
1.enlightened tutor- uhm.. duh. i can finish off combos with this and use forger/research to find it. i can also use this to find the forger.
2.absorb-more searchable stopping power.
3.path to exile-searchable removal.
4.argivian find?-searchable recursion.
*land tax-to go in place of tithe most likely but definitely in.
after these changes i feel the deck will be more streamlined to what im seeking. i just need a sweet altered zedruu now =).
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Overburden - This could be interesting since you'll be returning people lands
Price of Glory - Another land destruction agent but could draw a lot of hate
Insurrection - A win counter in case things go to crap!
Crescendo of War - Could help defensively and can donate
Cantivore - Cool flavor card!!!
Norn's Annex - Protection!
Knowledge Pool - This could just cause a crazy state of the board
Stuffy Doll - Good defensive mechanism!
Windborn Muse - Pillows!!!
BSRKaalia 4-6 Player Multiplayer EDH Deck
USRRuhan 4-6 Multiplayer EDH Giant Deck
USBZur the Enchanter 4-6 Player Multiplayer EDH Deck
GSBDoran Tree Tribal 4-6 Multiplayer EDH Deck
It seems like a pretty robust idea except for one detail, which is that after you go Epic, isn't it pretty easy for people to just hold their counterspells and counter copies of Enduring Ideal you cast every upkeep? Between three or four other players, a counterspell each turn isn't that hard to manage.
Along the same lines, it seems like Enduring Ideal should be cast with at least some counter backup. I understand that the original vision of the deck wants to minimise non-enchantment spells in the deck to make Replenish and such more potent, but still. Once people know your strategy, they know precisely which two spells they need to counter (and precisely which land to Wasteland, in Boseiju). Has this been an issue?
Legacy: UBRG Czech Pile, WWW Death & Taxes, many other things
Modern: UBR Grixis, RWG Burn, UR UR Storm, BBB 8 Rack, whatever other control deck I can force
Multiplayer EDH: RR Norin the Wary, UU Barrin, Master Wizard, UB Wrexial, the Risen Deep, GR Borborygmos, Enraged
It's only slightly becoming an issue in the groups I regularly play against. Yes, everyone there knows my gameplan by now, but we all know each other's game plans. Our table always looks like a game of "Who's the Archenemy This Turn?" They don't worry about me until I look ready to cast my Ideal or if I've been dumping **** into my graveyard for a few turns.
I really think the Group Hug stuff has been doing a great job of keeping the emphasis off of me. Yes, it feeds people more answers to my crap, but it feeds the other people more threats to get answered. And yes, it has occasionally backfired and let the combo guy go off way too early (I've started to learn how much Hug is appropriate for each table).
So, do I need counter backup? I still don't think so, partly because Twincast and Reverberate are counter-counterspells. I've still got Boseiju, too. Yeah, they like to destroy it but they like to destroy other stuff as well. It's all about the timing.
What I think I do need is more tutors. I've been toying around with an entire tutor suite: Mystical, Enlightened, and Idyllic. They seem to make the deck much more consistent... and of course more threatening. I don't know if it's any more fun this way, though. I'm getting the deck to a point where it's definitely "above average" in my usual playgroup. It's hit or miss at the LGS where card pools are much larger, but I still feel like I'm winning more than my share of games.
I know I've been saying this for a while, but I really should be able to update the Primer this weekend. I'll be in Korea on a business trip with very little to do with my evenings otherwise.
Stay tuned, and I'm glad you've enjoyed the deck so far.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
1) Donate Taniwha.
2) Their lands phase out during their untap step.
3) Lands and Taniwha phase in. The lands are tapped/untapped as they were when they phased out.
4) When Taniwha phases in, he returns to your control.
5) Donate again. The cycle repeats, effectively neutering most decks as 1) they can't untap their lands 2) lands can't be used for 1/2 of their turns
:symr::symw::symu:Control:symr::symw::symu:
:symb::symw::symg:Midrange:symb::symw::symg:
Modern Decks
:symu::symr::symw:Delver:symu::symr::symw:
:symw::symg:Hatebears:symw::symg:
:symu::symr::symw:Breakfast at Urza's a.k.a. mEGGaTron:symu::symr::symw:
Legacy Decks
:symu:Merfolk:symu:
:symr::symw:Goblins:symr::symw:
:symr::symu::symg:RUG Delver/Tempo Thresh:symr::symu::symg:
:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:Dredge:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:
That's not actually how it works. Two major problems.
First is that phasing won't change control of Taniwha. Also, when permanents phase in, they phase back in just before the untap step, so things will untap. Yeah, they won't have lands half the time, but they will have a 7/7 trample half the time. You're better off donating Celestial Dawn to someone who doesn't play white for locking them out of the game.
The second problem is that locking one player out doesn't actually win, and it's why I don't run Celestial Dawn. I'd rather drop something that locks the whole table or something that starts killing the whole table.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
You know, I'm pretty sure that should replace the Sphere of the Suns.
The only problem I see: Sphere can be reset with Venser, even after I have donated it. I don't know how relevant that ever will be. Probably not at all.
Let's say turn 2 I play Pentad with two charges. Then turn three is Coalition Relic. Turn four I would have access to 7 colored mana (eight if I made my fourth land drop). Either way I could conceivably go right into epic mode.
Yeah, that's going in.
EDIT:
And the update is official! See the updated list in the OP.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
A guy running 5c Hermit Druid combo cast Final Fortune to be able to combo off and kill the table. He flipped his library, started doing his combo thing, and made it to the combat phase when I said "Everyone draw 3."
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Epic deck, trying to see what I have so I can make as close and I can to see how my playgroup handles it.
Sig by Self
Dude, that took me way too long, but I figured it out. Thanks. I eventually just put the two lists into excel and alphabetized them. Turns out Mistveil Plains was missing from the function list. I'm still not sure whether Replenish belongs with Recursion or Winstuffs. I'm leaving it with Recursion for now, though.
Glad you like it. Let me know how it runs.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Honden of Cleansing Fire has been on my radar for a while as something to take out. I'm finding myself all too often with it in hand and not needing it or having much better options to play. It really only exists to make the other Hondens stronger. That said, what else could be cut?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
How is Assemble the Legion working for you? Isn't it a bit slow?
As for Soul Snare, I'm kinda skeptical of enchantments that have a one-time effect. Something like Protective Sphere might get you more value. Sure, it can't help you to deal with mono-green or mono-black damage sources, but against RUW, it is a repeatable protection. Once they see how the card works, RUW players won't go for you because it will be a waste of their attack step.
WUBGR - Enchantment Realms - WUBGR
An all-enchantment EDH deck: 0 creatures, 0 artifacts, 0 instants and sorceries.
GBUWR - The Necrotic Teenager and its 1,000,000 Combos - GBUWR
A deck built around Necrotic Ooze and its many friends.