Yeah, I totally had been misreading Shifting Borders. Derp. I still like it though.
On Steel Golem, I just like the fact that it's a card that you would never, ever see played if it weren't for Zedruu. Also, there are many times when a creature-heavy deck in Jund or mono-green looks like it's about to drop a load of fat on the board (without the assistance of T&N or G-Wave). It's then that the Golem donation would be good. Most people won't let the Golem suicide on their creatures to get rid of it when the mono-green guy just Worldly Tutored for Sylvan Primordial or Avenger of Zendikar.
I can see the objections, and especially for your Enduring Renewal plan it's probably not worth it, but it's still fun seeing plopped down on the creature deck's board.
By the way, the Taliban hates Santa. Bastards. :argh::crazy::D
These look good. Do I really need more card draw? Should I make room for them in the deck? What could I take out?
I was looking at my deck again, and out of the ten win condition packages I list, my deck runs seven of them. Maybe that's a little absurd. If I put more card draw in the place of win con pieces, I should more reliably draw into the win cons that are left, right? The same is true for loading the deck with tutor spells, too.
I think my problem is that I enjoy the variety and the versatility. If I want this thing to be competitive, I can crank up the reliability and work on always getting the same wincon. I just want to let you guys know that the option is there.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I see that. I guess what I'm asking is grabbing 2 duals once, better than an enchantment with the potential to grab 3 basics multiple times?
3 happens to be how many colors are in the deck so you still have access to all of your colors off of 1 trigger. The deck synergizes with enchantments more than spells as well as has ways to protect them.
I've never played the deck so I don't know how important mistveil is, especially if you aren't epic.
I'm just trying to reason for one or the other. I'm not actually sure which is better.
I'm not really sure either. Land Tax would be a great early turn play and could turn a one land opening hand into something playable, but its usefulness drops off late game. If nothing else, though, it's another enchantment for Serra's Sanctum and Sphere of Safety.
I like that Tithe works RITE NAO! It's also useful late game to find Mistveil, provided I haven't already gone epic. Not likely to be counterspelled, where Land Tax might actually eat removal.
I think the real question here is: Why not both?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I just thought that I would mention a few cards I came across in my own browsing. I'm in the process of building a deck somewhat similar to the one in the OP, and literally just got done looking at every single red, white, and/or blue enchantment. And I found some that made me raise an eyebrow, if nothing else.
Spirit Mirror - I find this card interesting because it always throws out a blocker each turn. And, you can donate the mirror. AND if the opponent does some shenanigans with it, you can destroy it at will. I'm going to mull it over a little more.
Ice Cave - So, one of the main problems I see with the Enduring Ideal plan is that you can't play spells after you throw it down. That is, if I understand how Epic works. Which is a pretty all-in strategy. So when I was paging through cards, I was looking for enchantments that allow you to put your mana to good use even after you put it down. Ice Cave seemed like a decent choice (if your meta tends toward the r/w/u spectrum of things), as you turn extra mana into counters.
Being so limited may be a problem, but hey! I thought I'd throw it out there.
Knollspine Invocation kind of follows my thinking here. If you have extra cards, make 'em into burn and removal?
Shapeshifter's Marrow - I found this card to be interesting, albeit not particularly competitive? Personally I think I'm going to run it, but that's just because I like how interactive it is. For a casual game, it's bound to be a good time.
Impending Disaster and Planar Collapse - So, I feel like a jerk for suggesting the first card. A lottttt of people hate LD. Tutorable mass LD (in a multiplayer game) is just asking to become public enemy number one.
Planar Collapse seems like an interesting choice, though. If I'm not mistaken, if you have played Enduring Ideal and have Paradox Haze out, you could do something like...
Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd probably attempt it otherwise.
Crucible of Fire and Where Ancients Tread - If you really really like the Dragon Roost gameplan, these two cards could probably go well with it. Pumps and direct damage for no extra mana? Yes please, all day erry day.
I also wanted to know your thoughts on In the Eye of Chaos and Invoke Prejudice. The former definitely seems playable, the latter maybe not so much. To me, at least.
And lastly, I stumbled across Energy Vortex, which to me seems pretty awesome. I am more than intrigued by it.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts, questions, concerns. I'd be glad to hear 'em.
EDIT: ALSO, I wanted to make a comment about Twincast and the like. The ability to get multiple EI triggers seems sooo powerful. What would you think about adding more cards akin to Twincast in the deck? I'm looking at stuff like Fork, Echo Mage, Increasing Vengeance, etc. etc.
With that being said...I do think some of the less absurd donate targets should be considered. Rust Elemental seems like a really good choice here. While probably not the nicest Group Hug card...it very efficiently punishes people for getting out of line.
Spirit Mirror - I find this card interesting because it always throws out a blocker each turn. And, you can donate the mirror. AND if the opponent does some shenanigans with it, you can destroy it at will. I'm going to mull it over a little more.
Neat, but I dunno if it's particularly powerful. So let's say I make the 2/2 and donate it. I can destroy it, so my opponent might be less likely to attack me with it. But, I draw a card from it, so his best option is actually to attack me with it anyway. Now I have to choose the damage or the card draw.
I have to say, this one I like. It works for all players, so it can easily set up a game where no one gets to do anything. Epic is a "copy this spell" kind of thing, too, so it doesn't even trigger the Ice Cave. I'd be the only guy casting spells that can't be countered. I really like this.
War Tax costs too much for "he might not even attack me this turn anyway." Also, it keeps the dude from attacking, not just attacking me. I think I prefer the hitting other people part. Caverns... meh. I've got Lightmine Field to fill that role. Dissipation Field is actually dangerous in a format where people like to abuse ETB creatures.
These were mentioned a few posts ago, I haven't put them into the card options yet. I love them both as options, but if I want to kill creatures, I already have Humility/Pyrohemia, and to kill lands I have Opalescence/Enchanted Evening.
I also wanted to know your thoughts on In the Eye of Chaos and Invoke Prejudice. The former definitely seems playable, the latter maybe not so much. To me, at least.
I'll add these in a "tax into submission" wincon. I'm really not sure which is the better card here.
I used to play this in a 1v1 60 card format, and I didn't like it then. Here in a multiplayer format, and huge mana sink for maybe 3 damage is not that great. Keep in mind this deck does tend to shut the game down, so they should have the mana to avoid the damage if they really need to.
Increasing Vengeance loses out on the versatility because it can only copy my own spells. Also, it's a very heavy on the mana cost for the flashback to try for Enduring Ideal. Echo Mage just screams shenanigans in the bad way. Opponents with half a brain will kill it. Plus Humility. You really have no idea how often that card comes out to screw people. Fork I just didn't have room for.
This guy is pretty hilarious, but I'm trying to stay away from the donate harmful stuff altogether. Also, 4 mana makes him not entirely easy to abuse. He would probably end up eating at least one of my rocks.
All that said, the current thing on my mind is taking out Howling Mine and Font of Mythos for the Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study. These trade hug for one sided draw, drop CMC, won't get shut off by Solitary Confinement, and are enchantments. They're not donatable and don't make friends. I require much more testing!
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I love how different this deck is yet it still seems very powerful. Id like to make a similar version of this. Two cards i intend to include that i didn't see in a list or the posts i read are jinxed choker and phyrexian unlife. The choker can just get annoying and you can always donate to avoid taking damage along with drawing more. I feel the unlife should come down after form, that way after taking more than the lethal 5 it will just go into your poison reservoir and at the end of each step your life will even go back to 5 to get that extra buffer. If your playgroup plays with more than 10 poison counters for edh that makes it even better.
I love how different this deck is yet it still seems very powerful. Id like to make a similar version of this. Two cards i intend to include that i didn't see in a list or the posts i read are jinxed choker and phyrexian unlife. The choker can just get annoying and you can always donate to avoid taking damage along with drawing more. I feel the unlife should come down after form, that way after taking more than the lethal 5 it will just go into your poison reservoir and at the end of each step your life will even go back to 5 to get that extra buffer. If your playgroup plays with more than 10 poison counters for edh that makes it even better.
Phyrexian Unlife will have a great interaction with Delaying Shield. That's been mentioned earlier in the thread, and I intend to put it in the card choices in my next update.
The choker is neat, but it's not winning games or saving my life. That's really what's been the deciding factor for deck slots. Does that make sense?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Phyrexian Unlife will have a great interaction with Delaying Shield. That's been mentioned earlier in the thread, and I intend to put it in the card choices in my next update.
The choker is neat, but it's not winning games or saving my life. That's really what's been the deciding factor for deck slots. Does that make sense?
yea i must have missed the unlife combo. and after my first revision of my mayble-list i took out the chocker too.
i cant for the life of me find my decklist i had written down either:flame:
but my last two orders will be here by monday so i should have it completed and tested.
its very similar to the original list you have shown but i made a few swaps for some of the group huggish stuff. its just not in my nature but my playgroups not competitive so i can probably get away for a few more turns not casting zedruu.
So... I learned a valuable lesson this weekend. Don't lose control of Karmic Justice when you have Lightmine Field on the board. Probably got greedy with Replenish but...I got crushed. BTW my play group has banned this deck. Very similar to my life gain stall deck. Not enough action. I maintain that this is an awesome list though.
got my deck assembled today finally. i cant wait to get together with some unknowing prey (friends). i have a good feeling they'll hate it after game one.
another card that i didnt see on the maybe's (and im not sure if it was already mentioned) is sneak attack. i put knollspine invocation in mine as i also used a few more wipes and a couple counters for some just in cases. but it seems useful to get dead creatures out of your hand without technically playing a spell right?
I picked up a copy of Zedruu today. It will be awhile before I get brewing on this, Angry Borbor is my current pet project, but I can't wait to do more stupid things with my EDH decks. Probably why I also have a Norin deck.
But seriously, they say it doesn't have enough action? I can see that, especially if you always go for total lockdown. Maybe you should take out Humility/Dovescape for your group and go with some of the more flashy finisher combos (Pyrohemia+tokens+Vicious Shadows is totally my favorite).
This is a pretty fun idea for sure. The problem I expect is that the list is very creature light. Sneak Attack Ulamog is pretty fun, but how reliably can I be pulling that off? Can I even do it more than one turn in a row? Probably not.
Could the deck be turned into something where Sneak Attack shines? Probably. Hell, just throw a bunch of Eldrazi into the deck and that might be enough. This would certainly appeal to the Timmy types. It's just not a direction I'll go with it.
I like this. The first turn with this combo out is three hasty tokens. The second turn is SEVEN. I really like this.
I already have Sacred Mesa, which is nice when I have Serra's Sanctum for sure and it lets me generate tokens without waiting until the next upkeep. I wouldn't swap these two. I'd want to add Assemble in on its own. I haven't been as impressed with Rule of Law as I had hoped, maybe it's time for something new.
I picked up a copy of Zedruu today. It will be awhile before I get brewing on this, Angry Borbor is my current pet project, but I can't wait to do more stupid things with my EDH decks. Probably why I also have a Norin deck.
Ha. Good luck brewing, I hope my deck gives you a few pointers. Norin is totally my second favorite commander right now. Love that little... where'd he go?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
i ended up not using sneak attack both for the cost($) and lack of creatures. but funny enough i also have assemble the legion in my list as i pulled an extra one and it seemed useful for token creation aside for mesa.
this is what i have come up with so far -testing:
i put in some counters so stop game enders before i can go off or to help some key spells pass. also added some board wipes as it seemed the fairest way to remove a bunch of stuff. i didnt take out all of the benefit-all cards, but i dont see myself donating a ton of my stuff aside from tokens maybe? i am also using the knollspine invocation so my extra spells dont become dead. i might toss in howling mine/ font of mythos, 2-3 upkeeps per turn coupled with extra draw and the ability to fling it all... sounds fun. id really like to add another tutor or two, i want to make sure i can copy my enduring ideal at least once to really maximize its epic value. i really cant wait to try this deck out, i might even have to test it against one of my own just to see how it goes.
i put in some counters so stop game enders before i can go off or to help some key spells pass. also added some board wipes as it seemed the fairest way to remove a bunch of stuff. i didnt take out all of the benefit-all cards, but i dont see myself donating a ton of my stuff aside from tokens maybe? i am also using the knollspine invocation so my extra spells dont become dead. i might toss in howling mine/ font of mythos, 2-3 upkeeps per turn coupled with extra draw and the ability to fling it all... sounds fun. id really like to add another tutor or two, i want to make sure i can copy my enduring ideal at least once to really maximize its epic value. i really cant wait to try this deck out, i might even have to test it against one of my own just to see how it goes.
I like how your deck looks. You're lighter on enchantments than I run, so things like Sphere of Safety might not work as well, but you'll have less eggs in one basket.
I'm curious to know how well the Sun Titan works out for you. It's definitely a strong card and there are a lot of things it can work on. I'm just not sure you'll see a ton of value out of it.
I've tested with Boros Charm, and I do like it a lot, but I think Counterspell is just better in its place for the versatility. Boros Charm might be used to give Eldrazi Zedruu Double Strike, but most often it's used in response to an enchantment wipe. Yes, Boros Charm will let the wipe go through and hurt everyone else, but Counterspell could also be used to disrupt someone else's combo if you need it or protect your Enduring Ideal or the hundred other things that Counterspell does. What I'm saying is I found Boros Charm to be a blowout when it works, if a bit narrow. Then again, I don't even run the Counterspell.
You're going to run into problems with Ulamog and Tunnel Vision being used in the same deck.
All that said, I like the list and I'm sure you'll have fun with it. Let me know how it goes!
Sometime this weekend I'm going to put together an honest update to the Primer and the list. I've made a few changes and had the chance to test them out, just no time to write about it.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I like how your deck looks. You're lighter on enchantments than I run, so things like Sphere of Safety might not work as well, but you'll have less eggs in one basket.
I'm curious to know how well the Sun Titan works out for you. It's definitely a strong card and there are a lot of things it can work on. I'm just not sure you'll see a ton of value out of it.
I've tested with Boros Charm, and I do like it a lot, but I think Counterspell is just better in its place for the versatility. Boros Charm might be used to give Eldrazi Zedruu Double Strike, but most often it's used in response to an enchantment wipe. Yes, Boros Charm will let the wipe go through and hurt everyone else, but Counterspell could also be used to disrupt someone else's combo if you need it or protect your Enduring Ideal or the hundred other things that Counterspell does. What I'm saying is I found Boros Charm to be a blowout when it works, if a bit narrow. Then again, I don't even run the Counterspell.
You're going to run into problems with Ulamog and Tunnel Vision being used in the same deck.
All that said, I like the list and I'm sure you'll have fun with it. Let me know how it goes!
Sun titan is one of those thing i just have to try if i'm running white, especially with so many targets. I've had too many good experiences with him. I also see what you mean about the boros charm. On one hand it can leave with an advantage, and on the other a counter could at least still save me and then some... Id also rather ditch the tunnel vision as its just a one-trick pony where as ulamog is a beast on his own as well as graveyard recursion.
So with - a boros charm and tunnel vision, im not really sure what id add? I don't feel the need for any more counters really, especially with bosieju. Maybe an wall of omens? I feel it would be another creature or two or at least more pillow-fort for protection. any suggestion would be cool;)
I also read about a neat trick when using the hivemind shenanigans. aside from making them go epic too, you can use it to make them copy your pact spells (mainly pact of negation). If they cant pay the colored mana cost or maybe just don't have enough sources they will auto-lose. A funny idea if your already running hivemind i guess but i feel like it falls in the unfair category.
So with - a boros charm and tunnel vision, im not really sure what id add? I don't feel the need for any more counters really, especially with bosieju. Maybe an wall of omens? I feel it would be another creature or two or at least more pillow-fort for protection. any suggestion would be cool;)
Try the Boros Charm before you cut it. Maybe your meta sees more Austere Command effects than mine. Like I said, it's an absolute blowout when you get to use it, and Wild Research does let you search for it. Just try it and let me know how your experience goes.
I also read about a neat trick when using the hivemind shenanigans. aside from making them go epic too, you can use it to make them copy your pact spells (mainly pact of negation). If they cant pay the colored mana cost or maybe just don't have enough sources they will auto-lose. A funny idea if your already running hivemind i guess but i feel like it falls in the unfair category.
Yes, Hive Mind into Pact does seem like a dick move, which is why I don't run it. Here's another one that you might find fun though: Final Fortune. From Gatherer:
"If multiple "extra turn" effects resolve in the same turn, take them in the reverse of the order that the effects resolved."
Everyone gets one turn to kill you.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
On Steel Golem, I just like the fact that it's a card that you would never, ever see played if it weren't for Zedruu. Also, there are many times when a creature-heavy deck in Jund or mono-green looks like it's about to drop a load of fat on the board (without the assistance of T&N or G-Wave). It's then that the Golem donation would be good. Most people won't let the Golem suicide on their creatures to get rid of it when the mono-green guy just Worldly Tutored for Sylvan Primordial or Avenger of Zendikar.
I can see the objections, and especially for your Enduring Renewal plan it's probably not worth it, but it's still fun seeing plopped down on the creature deck's board.
By the way, the Taliban hates Santa. Bastards. :argh::crazy::D
These look good. Do I really need more card draw? Should I make room for them in the deck? What could I take out?
I was looking at my deck again, and out of the ten win condition packages I list, my deck runs seven of them. Maybe that's a little absurd. If I put more card draw in the place of win con pieces, I should more reliably draw into the win cons that are left, right? The same is true for loading the deck with tutor spells, too.
I think my problem is that I enjoy the variety and the versatility. If I want this thing to be competitive, I can crank up the reliability and work on always getting the same wincon. I just want to let you guys know that the option is there.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Am I missing something about playing Tithe over Land Tax?
Land Tax only fetches basics, and has to make it to the upkeep before it does anything.
Tithe can be used to grab a dual and Mistveil Plains, then one of those could be played.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
3 happens to be how many colors are in the deck so you still have access to all of your colors off of 1 trigger. The deck synergizes with enchantments more than spells as well as has ways to protect them.
I've never played the deck so I don't know how important mistveil is, especially if you aren't epic.
I'm just trying to reason for one or the other. I'm not actually sure which is better.
I'm not really sure either. Land Tax would be a great early turn play and could turn a one land opening hand into something playable, but its usefulness drops off late game. If nothing else, though, it's another enchantment for Serra's Sanctum and Sphere of Safety.
I like that Tithe works RITE NAO! It's also useful late game to find Mistveil, provided I haven't already gone epic. Not likely to be counterspelled, where Land Tax might actually eat removal.
I think the real question here is: Why not both?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I could see some annoying combos with impending disaster and land tax.
First off, congrats on Primer status.
I just thought that I would mention a few cards I came across in my own browsing. I'm in the process of building a deck somewhat similar to the one in the OP, and literally just got done looking at every single red, white, and/or blue enchantment. And I found some that made me raise an eyebrow, if nothing else.
Spirit Mirror - I find this card interesting because it always throws out a blocker each turn. And, you can donate the mirror. AND if the opponent does some shenanigans with it, you can destroy it at will. I'm going to mull it over a little more.
Ice Cave - So, one of the main problems I see with the Enduring Ideal plan is that you can't play spells after you throw it down. That is, if I understand how Epic works. Which is a pretty all-in strategy. So when I was paging through cards, I was looking for enchantments that allow you to put your mana to good use even after you put it down. Ice Cave seemed like a decent choice (if your meta tends toward the r/w/u spectrum of things), as you turn extra mana into counters.
Being so limited may be a problem, but hey! I thought I'd throw it out there.
Knollspine Invocation kind of follows my thinking here. If you have extra cards, make 'em into burn and removal?
Shapeshifter's Marrow - I found this card to be interesting, albeit not particularly competitive? Personally I think I'm going to run it, but that's just because I like how interactive it is. For a casual game, it's bound to be a good time.
War Tax, Caverns of Despair, and Dissipation Field - MOAR PILLOWFORT!!
Impending Disaster and Planar Collapse - So, I feel like a jerk for suggesting the first card. A lottttt of people hate LD. Tutorable mass LD (in a multiplayer game) is just asking to become public enemy number one.
Planar Collapse seems like an interesting choice, though. If I'm not mistaken, if you have played Enduring Ideal and have Paradox Haze out, you could do something like...
First upkeep - 1st Enduring Ideal trigger --> Fetch Planar Collapse
Beginning of next upkeep -> Planar Collapse triggers (assuuming there's enough creatures), Wipe the board.
Enduring Ideal triggers -- > Lucent Liminid
And then next turn you can tutor for Eldrazi Consciption + Greater Auramancy?
Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd probably attempt it otherwise.
Crucible of Fire and Where Ancients Tread - If you really really like the Dragon Roost gameplan, these two cards could probably go well with it. Pumps and direct damage for no extra mana? Yes please, all day erry day.
I also wanted to know your thoughts on In the Eye of Chaos and Invoke Prejudice. The former definitely seems playable, the latter maybe not so much. To me, at least.
And lastly, I stumbled across Energy Vortex, which to me seems pretty awesome. I am more than intrigued by it.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts, questions, concerns. I'd be glad to hear 'em.
EDIT: ALSO, I wanted to make a comment about Twincast and the like. The ability to get multiple EI triggers seems sooo powerful. What would you think about adding more cards akin to Twincast in the deck? I'm looking at stuff like Fork, Echo Mage, Increasing Vengeance, etc. etc.
...faster clap.
...all out applause.
...standing ovation.
...:hifive:
I have tried so hard to make Zedruu playable without being a dick.
With that being said...I do think some of the less absurd donate targets should be considered. Rust Elemental seems like a really good choice here. While probably not the nicest Group Hug card...it very efficiently punishes people for getting out of line.
Overall...fantastic deck idea.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Spirit Mirror + Unnatural Selection is shenanigans. One of the local players runs that combo, and it is really good.
Neat, but I dunno if it's particularly powerful. So let's say I make the 2/2 and donate it. I can destroy it, so my opponent might be less likely to attack me with it. But, I draw a card from it, so his best option is actually to attack me with it anyway. Now I have to choose the damage or the card draw.
I have to say, this one I like. It works for all players, so it can easily set up a game where no one gets to do anything. Epic is a "copy this spell" kind of thing, too, so it doesn't even trigger the Ice Cave. I'd be the only guy casting spells that can't be countered. I really like this.
Ok, this is a solid option for mana sink. It's not my favorite, but it's worth looking into.
Eh. It's just too unreliable. Plus Humility.
War Tax costs too much for "he might not even attack me this turn anyway." Also, it keeps the dude from attacking, not just attacking me. I think I prefer the hitting other people part. Caverns... meh. I've got Lightmine Field to fill that role. Dissipation Field is actually dangerous in a format where people like to abuse ETB creatures.
These were mentioned a few posts ago, I haven't put them into the card options yet. I love them both as options, but if I want to kill creatures, I already have Humility/Pyrohemia, and to kill lands I have Opalescence/Enchanted Evening.
And I just took Dragon's Roost out... Honestly it's just an awkward mana payment. A 5/5 for 7 is great. A 5/5 because I only have 13 kinda sucks.
I'll add these in a "tax into submission" wincon. I'm really not sure which is the better card here.
I used to play this in a 1v1 60 card format, and I didn't like it then. Here in a multiplayer format, and huge mana sink for maybe 3 damage is not that great. Keep in mind this deck does tend to shut the game down, so they should have the mana to avoid the damage if they really need to.
Increasing Vengeance loses out on the versatility because it can only copy my own spells. Also, it's a very heavy on the mana cost for the flashback to try for Enduring Ideal. Echo Mage just screams shenanigans in the bad way. Opponents with half a brain will kill it. Plus Humility. You really have no idea how often that card comes out to screw people. Fork I just didn't have room for.
Glad you liked this, and I'm going to have to put Thought Lash in with the "Dick Move" wincons. Thanks.
This guy is pretty hilarious, but I'm trying to stay away from the donate harmful stuff altogether. Also, 4 mana makes him not entirely easy to abuse. He would probably end up eating at least one of my rocks.
All that said, the current thing on my mind is taking out Howling Mine and Font of Mythos for the Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study. These trade hug for one sided draw, drop CMC, won't get shut off by Solitary Confinement, and are enchantments. They're not donatable and don't make friends. I require much more testing!
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Phyrexian Unlife will have a great interaction with Delaying Shield. That's been mentioned earlier in the thread, and I intend to put it in the card choices in my next update.
The choker is neat, but it's not winning games or saving my life. That's really what's been the deciding factor for deck slots. Does that make sense?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
yea i must have missed the unlife combo. and after my first revision of my mayble-list i took out the chocker too.
i cant for the life of me find my decklist i had written down either:flame:
but my last two orders will be here by monday so i should have it completed and tested.
its very similar to the original list you have shown but i made a few swaps for some of the group huggish stuff. its just not in my nature but my playgroups not competitive so i can probably get away for a few more turns not casting zedruu.
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
another card that i didnt see on the maybe's (and im not sure if it was already mentioned) is sneak attack. i put knollspine invocation in mine as i also used a few more wipes and a couple counters for some just in cases. but it seems useful to get dead creatures out of your hand without technically playing a spell right?
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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Karmic Justice only triggers on non-creature permanents, so Lightmine Field shouldn't be killing anything that backfires in your face.
Mission accomplished.
But seriously, they say it doesn't have enough action? I can see that, especially if you always go for total lockdown. Maybe you should take out Humility/Dovescape for your group and go with some of the more flashy finisher combos (Pyrohemia+tokens+Vicious Shadows is totally my favorite).
This is a pretty fun idea for sure. The problem I expect is that the list is very creature light. Sneak Attack Ulamog is pretty fun, but how reliably can I be pulling that off? Can I even do it more than one turn in a row? Probably not.
Could the deck be turned into something where Sneak Attack shines? Probably. Hell, just throw a bunch of Eldrazi into the deck and that might be enough. This would certainly appeal to the Timmy types. It's just not a direction I'll go with it.
I like this. The first turn with this combo out is three hasty tokens. The second turn is SEVEN. I really like this.
I already have Sacred Mesa, which is nice when I have Serra's Sanctum for sure and it lets me generate tokens without waiting until the next upkeep. I wouldn't swap these two. I'd want to add Assemble in on its own. I haven't been as impressed with Rule of Law as I had hoped, maybe it's time for something new.
Ha. Good luck brewing, I hope my deck gives you a few pointers. Norin is totally my second favorite commander right now. Love that little... where'd he go?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
this is what i have come up with so far -testing:
1 zedruu the greathearted
PW
1 jace beleren
1 venser, the sojourner
Creatures
1 Ulamog, the infinite gyre
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 academy rector
1 hanna, ship's navigator
1 auramancer
1 lucent luminid
1 fog bank
1 sun titan
1 jace's archivist
Enchantments
1 greater auramancy
1 sphere of safety
1 assemble the legion
1 parallax wave
1 collective restraint
1 rhystic study
1 enchanted evening
1 sacred mesa
1 ghostly prison
1 confiscate
1 oath of lieges
1 mind over matter
1 wild research
1 aura of silence
1 planar collapse
1 propaganda
1 opalescense
1 humility
1 solitary confinement
1 karmic justice
1 copy enchantment
1 eldrazi conscription
1 mystic remora
1 meishin, the mind cage (might use norn's annex)
1 knollspine invocation
1 second chance
1 dovescape
1 paradox haze
1 vicious shadows
1 form of the dragon
1 detention sphere
1 rule of law
1 price of glory
1 counterflux
1 boros charm (can save my enchants from a wipe)
1 day of judgement
1 supreme verdict
1 trickbind
1 tunnel vision (may use mystical tutor instead)
1 replenish
1 enduring ideal
1 twincast
1 reverberate
Artifacts
1 temple bell
1 otherworld atlas
1 darksteel ingot
1 expedition map
1 chromatic lantern
1 coalition relic
1 gilded lotus
1 talisman of progress
1 sol ring
1 star compass
Lands
1 command tower
1 shimmering grotto
1 hallowed fountain
1 sacred foundry
1 steam vents
1 glacial fortress
1 sulfur falls
1 serra sanctum
1 tolaria west
1 boseiju, who shelters all
1 mistveil plains
1 terramorphic expanse
9 plains
5 mountain
9 island
i put in some counters so stop game enders before i can go off or to help some key spells pass. also added some board wipes as it seemed the fairest way to remove a bunch of stuff. i didnt take out all of the benefit-all cards, but i dont see myself donating a ton of my stuff aside from tokens maybe? i am also using the knollspine invocation so my extra spells dont become dead. i might toss in howling mine/ font of mythos, 2-3 upkeeps per turn coupled with extra draw and the ability to fling it all... sounds fun. id really like to add another tutor or two, i want to make sure i can copy my enduring ideal at least once to really maximize its epic value. i really cant wait to try this deck out, i might even have to test it against one of my own just to see how it goes.
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
I like how your deck looks. You're lighter on enchantments than I run, so things like Sphere of Safety might not work as well, but you'll have less eggs in one basket.
I'm curious to know how well the Sun Titan works out for you. It's definitely a strong card and there are a lot of things it can work on. I'm just not sure you'll see a ton of value out of it.
I've tested with Boros Charm, and I do like it a lot, but I think Counterspell is just better in its place for the versatility. Boros Charm might be used to give Eldrazi Zedruu Double Strike, but most often it's used in response to an enchantment wipe. Yes, Boros Charm will let the wipe go through and hurt everyone else, but Counterspell could also be used to disrupt someone else's combo if you need it or protect your Enduring Ideal or the hundred other things that Counterspell does. What I'm saying is I found Boros Charm to be a blowout when it works, if a bit narrow. Then again, I don't even run the Counterspell.
You're going to run into problems with Ulamog and Tunnel Vision being used in the same deck.
All that said, I like the list and I'm sure you'll have fun with it. Let me know how it goes!
Sometime this weekend I'm going to put together an honest update to the Primer and the list. I've made a few changes and had the chance to test them out, just no time to write about it.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Sun titan is one of those thing i just have to try if i'm running white, especially with so many targets. I've had too many good experiences with him. I also see what you mean about the boros charm. On one hand it can leave with an advantage, and on the other a counter could at least still save me and then some... Id also rather ditch the tunnel vision as its just a one-trick pony where as ulamog is a beast on his own as well as graveyard recursion.
So with - a boros charm and tunnel vision, im not really sure what id add? I don't feel the need for any more counters really, especially with bosieju. Maybe an wall of omens? I feel it would be another creature or two or at least more pillow-fort for protection. any suggestion would be cool;)
I also read about a neat trick when using the hivemind shenanigans. aside from making them go epic too, you can use it to make them copy your pact spells (mainly pact of negation). If they cant pay the colored mana cost or maybe just don't have enough sources they will auto-lose. A funny idea if your already running hivemind i guess but i feel like it falls in the unfair category.
EDH:
:symgu:Momir Vig:symug:, :symgw::symug::symwu:Jenara:symwu::symug::symwg:
current paper:
EDH:
:symub:Grim-grin tribal:symbu:, :symrb:olivia ramp and double:symbr:, :azorius::boros::izzet:zedruu's ideal:azorius::boros::izzet:
Try the Boros Charm before you cut it. Maybe your meta sees more Austere Command effects than mine. Like I said, it's an absolute blowout when you get to use it, and Wild Research does let you search for it. Just try it and let me know how your experience goes.
Yes, Hive Mind into Pact does seem like a dick move, which is why I don't run it. Here's another one that you might find fun though: Final Fortune. From Gatherer:
"If multiple "extra turn" effects resolve in the same turn, take them in the reverse of the order that the effects resolved."
Everyone gets one turn to kill you.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!