Pristaxcontrombmodruu! The deck formerly known as Zedruu's Enduring Ideal.
Which is the deck formerly known as Zedruu Sucks.
Which is the deck formerly known as America Enchantment Tribal.
Which is the deck formerly known as Let's Do Something Epic!
Hey again everyone. I've found somewhere else to host my primer. I don't know if it will be the permanent home of my primer, but I'll figure that out as I go. This is the last time I will edit this thread here. This is also the last I will be logging in to MTGS. If you would like to stay in touch with me, please use the email address listed in my signature.
Thanks again for everything,
-Dechs
Hey everyone. It's been great and all, but I'm not going to be around the site anymore to maintain this list like I have been. I'm going to leave the latest version of the decklist, of course, but I wouldn't feel right leaving a Primer untouched until it became obsolete.
I appreciate all the help you've given me in making the list tighter. Some of the best cards in my deck were things I was made aware of in the thread. I can't thank you enough.
I am extremely glad that you've all been able to pilot lists similar to mine and enjoy them. Any time I impart helpful knowledge or entertain people, I get a little rush. Again, I can't thank you enough.
Anyone who wants to carry the torch and create their own version of my primer is welcome do to so. Anyone who wants to keep in touch with me after I've left may also do so. I'll be leaving my email address in my signature.
So, I finally broke and made room for some tutors and whatnot. I cut out some of my win conditions, so the deck will function more or less the same every game. I don't know how much that will appeal to me, but I'm going to try it anyway. I can always swap out win conditions packages between games if I really want to.
First, a couple actual replacements:
-Exotic Orchard
+Tithe - Tithe is as good as a land, so it took the spot of my least favorite.
You will see that I took out the draw step draw stuff because Solitary Confinement shuts that off and I get Solitary Confinement online almost every game. Walking Archive also goes because he's too fragile and everyone else will draw before me. Hive Mind always feels like a Dick Move when I win with it (i.e. follow up with Enduring Ideal), and it backfires any time I don't. I have better ways to lock down a table than Meishin. Eldrazi Liminid seems to be my least reliable win condition, so to make room, those came out, too.
Overhaul of the Card Choices section of the Primer. Sections are now divided by function.
Changes to the list:
-Runed Halo
+Izzet Signet - I needed another mana rock and Runed Halo wasn’t pulling enough weight.
-Darksteel Ingot
+Boros Signet - I think it’s more important to cost 2 than to be indestructible and give me any color.
-Hanna, Ship’s Navigator
+Akroan Horse - I wasn’t willing to add more creatures to the deck, so one had to go for this. Hanna was actually getting the least use.
I think that I played a 5 color version of this at some point. Either way the loss of two colors shouldn't change much, and should be very reliable and strong. Also, I don't know if this is intended to be budget or not, but moat
I think that I played a 5 color version of this at some point. Either way the loss of two colors shouldn't change much, and should be very reliable and strong.
I imagine your general wasn't particularly synergistic in a 5c version of something like this. I ran a lot of global enchantments and artifacts specifically so Zedruu could pawn them off without changing their effectiveness at all. That said, I'm glad you like the list.
Also, I don't know if this is intended to be budget or not, but moat
Budget isn't a concern. I just don't like Moat for this deck. It wants to play a game of politics and let opponents attack each other. This deck likes other people killing each other, because we're in it for the long game. Moat will also be answered right away, where a Propaganda or Sphere of Safety really won't.
I did just notice I'm missing Academy Rector. I'll have to find a spot for that.
I mainly used moat for once they've caught on to what I was doing to not die. But yeah, the general wasn't too synergistic, just a good blocker/plan b to keep me going.
I also just realized Reiterate really doesn't fit the plan either. The whole reason I have those is to copy Enduring Ideal when I play it, and Reiterate isn't going to be bought back and played again.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I feel really bad saying this, but one part of the deck doesn't work. If your War child puts a token onto the battlefield under my control, I am the owner of the token. You don't get to draw cards off Zedruu.
I feel really bad saying this, but one part of the deck doesn't work. If your War child puts a token onto the battlefield under my control, I am the owner of the token. You don't get to draw cards off Zedruu.
Sorry man.
That's not how I read this:
Quote from "Comprehensive Rules" »
216. Tokens
216.1. Some effects put tokens into play. A token is controlled by whoever put it into play and owned by the controller of the spell or ability that created it. (If no player controlled the effect that created it, the token is owned by whoever put it into play.) The spell or ability may define any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristics defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristics that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
Or does it not count because the War Riders put it in as a cost?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
That and if you want to add Gisela, she makes it stupid funny. You take a quarter of the damage that is initially dealt and they take 4 times it. Pyrohemia becomes:
R: Each opponent takes 2 damage plus 4 damage for each creature they control, you take 1 damage plus 1 for each creature you control.
I'm not a huge fan of Form of the Dragon combo'd with Transcendence. Form fixes your health by loss of life so it'll start killing you pretty quick since it works at every end step and not just your own.
If you are above 5 life the life total reset is done through life loss. So for instance if you are in a 4 player game and you end your turn at 6 life Form will make you lose 1 life to bring you to 5. Transcendence makes you gain 2 life for every one lost so you would go up to 7 after that. On the next players endstep you would go to 5 transcendence would see that and set you to 9. Next player you will end up at 13 and they next you would be at 21 and lose. So if you are ever above 5 life with form and transcendence out you'll be dead pretty quick.
Thanks, genini1. Good catch. I wasn't thinking about how Transcendence would see Form of the Dragon's life setting as life loss.
I'm keeping Transcendence in the deck for now because, with Zedruu, it's still a way to take someone out of the game.
I've made another update to the OP, finding room for Second Chance, Wild Research, Academy Rector and High Market. I've also alphabetized everything but the lands.
Right now I'm debating the whole giving tokens away and Pyrohemia/Repercussion/Burning Sands/Vicious Shadows combo. If I take out Repercussion and Burning Sands, I can axe the give tokens away part and just add another cheap token producer for myself, like Sacred Mesa. I'll just have to test it more and see if it's really worth keeping.
Sometimes I feel like I need graveyard hate to deal with infinite combos or whatever, but then I realize most of those don't work on me anyway. What do I care if my opponent Lark's a horde of creatures into play? He can't pay the Propaganda for all of them. And a Mike/Trike-ing NecOoze can't target me. Both of these assume I didn't have Humility in play to begin with, either. So, I don't clog my deck with graveyard hate.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I play a Zedruu list as well- mine isn't one of my my most tuned decks though. I like the tokens + Pyrohemia + Viscious Shadows/et al combos you got here and might try them in my deck.
A couple cards of note: Psychosis Crawler
I also use Illusions of Grandeur, donate to an opponent via Zed, then Venser, the Sojourner/Capsize it back to my side for more life swings - admittedly, thats a fragile one. Pyromancer's Swath donated to an opponent, makes go into top deck mode Statecraft Wild Research was suggested before- for good reason.
Lastly, if you keep Dovescape, you can go infinite with that and Guile (plus any non-creature spell)
I like a lot of your choices though- I've been meaning to tweak my Zed deck for a while and I'll probably take some cues from you.
So, I've been playing this deck enough now to notice that I most often win via scoop. I don't know if that's a good thing.
Basically, I tend to get myself into a position where no one can actually do anything to me. One player will get knocked out by the other two before they realize this, though, and then they turn to each other and say "Can you deal with him?" When they both say no, the next question is "Does that Zedruu deck even have a win-con?" I nod, and they say "Well, I'm not sticking around until you find it. GG."
With her out, you take no damage from Pyrohemia, as are your creatures. Read her second ability again!
Yeah, I hadn't actually thought of it like that. I really like the interaction here, but I don't think it's worth putting Gisela into the deck. I'm sure there are Gisela decks out there that can put this idea to much better use. Pyroclasm, Earthquake, et al.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
The deck formerly known as Zedruu's Enduring Ideal.
Which is the deck formerly known as Zedruu Sucks.
Which is the deck formerly known as America Enchantment Tribal.
Which is the deck formerly known as Let's Do Something Epic!
Banner by Ace of Spades Studio
Hey again everyone. I've found somewhere else to host my primer. I don't know if it will be the permanent home of my primer, but I'll figure that out as I go. This is the last time I will edit this thread here. This is also the last I will be logging in to MTGS. If you would like to stay in touch with me, please use the email address listed in my signature.
Thanks again for everything,
-Dechs
I appreciate all the help you've given me in making the list tighter. Some of the best cards in my deck were things I was made aware of in the thread. I can't thank you enough.
I am extremely glad that you've all been able to pilot lists similar to mine and enjoy them. Any time I impart helpful knowledge or entertain people, I get a little rush. Again, I can't thank you enough.
Anyone who wants to carry the torch and create their own version of my primer is welcome do to so. Anyone who wants to keep in touch with me after I've left may also do so. I'll be leaving my email address in my signature.
Thanks again.
-Dechs
4 Zedruu the Greathearted
ARTIFACT (13)
1 Expedition Map
1 Sol Ring
2 Boros Signet
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Izzet Signet
2 Pentad Prism
2 Sphere of the Suns
2 Talisman of Progress
2 Torpor Orb
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Coalition Relic
3 Temple Bell
4 Otherworld Atlas
ENCHANTMENT (34)
2 Copy Artifact
2 Darksteel Mutation
2 Greater Auramancy
2 Mana Maze
2 Oath of Lieges
3 Aura of Silence
3 Copy Enchantment
3 Detention Sphere
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Karmic Justice
3 Paradox Haze
3 Propaganda
3 Rhystic Study
3 Sacred Mesa
3 Second Chance
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Wild Research
4 Humility
4 Lightmine Field
4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Puca’s Mischief
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Pyrohemia
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Enchanted Evening
5 Sphere of Safety
6 Dovescape
6 Mind Over Matter
6 Mind Unbound
6 Volition Reins
7 Form of the Dragon
7 Vicious Shadows
8 Eldrazi Conscription
2 Fog Bank
3 Auramancer
3 Jace's Archivist
3 Monk Idealist
4 Academy Rector
4 Akroan Horse
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
SORCERY (3)
3 Idyllic Tutor
4 Replenish
7 Enduring Ideal
INSTANT (6)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tithe
2 Reverberate
2 Twincast
3 Spell Crumple
PLANESWALKER (2)
3 Jace Beleren
5 Venser, the Sojourner
LAND (34)
0 Arid Mesa
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
0 Command Tower
0 Flooded Strand
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 High Market
0 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
0 Mistveil Plains
0 Petrified Field
0 Plateau
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Serra's Sanctum
0 Steam Vents
0 Tolaria West
0 Tundra
0 Volcanic Island
0 Wasteland
6x Plains
5x Island
5x Mountain
3 Rhystic Study
4 Puca’s Mischief
4 Zedruu the Greathearted
6 Mind Unbound
HUGS! (6)
0 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Oath of Lieges
3 Jace Beleren
3 Jace's Archivist
3 Temple Bell
4 Otherworld Atlas
LOCKDOWN (5)
2 Mana Maze
2 Torpor Orb
4 Humility
4 Lightmine Field
6 Dovescape
COVER MY ASS (12)
2 Darksteel Mutation
2 Fog Bank
2 Greater Auramancy
3 Aura of Silence
3 Detention Sphere
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Karmic Justice
3 Propaganda
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Spell Crumple
4 Parallax Wave
5 Sphere of Safety
RECURSION (5)
0 Mistveil Plains
0 Petrified Field
3 Auramancer
3 Monk Idealist
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 Paradox Haze
3 Sacred Mesa
3 Second Chance
4 Opalescence
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Pyrohemia
4 Replenish
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Enchanted Evening
6 Mind Over Matter
7 Form of the Dragon
7 Vicious Shadows
8 Eldrazi Conscription
TUTOR AND CHEAT (9)
0 Tolaria West
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Expedition Map
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tithe
3 Idyllic Tutor
3 Wild Research
4 Academy Rector
7 Enduring Ideal
VERSATILE (6)
2 Copy Artifact
2 Reverberate
2 Twincast
3 Copy Enchantment
4 Akroan Horse
5 Venser, the Sojourner
6 Volition Reins
1 Sol Ring
2 Boros Signet
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Izzet Signet
2 Pentad Prism
2 Sphere of the Suns
2 Talisman of Progress
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Coalition Relic
0 Arid Mesa
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
0 Command Tower
0 Flooded Strand
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 High Market
0 Plateau
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Serra's Sanctum
0 Steam Vents
0 Tundra
0 Volcanic Island
0 Wasteland
6x Plains
5x Island
5x Mountain
-Aura Thief
-Lost Auramancers
-Varchild's War-Riders
-Wall of Frost
-Windborn Muse
-Aurification
-Burning Sands
-Curse of Exhaustion
-Leyline of Anticipation
-Mana Flare
-Moat
-Parallax Tide
-Psychic Battle
-Repercussion
-Transcendence
-Words of Wind
-Reiterate
-Forbidden Orchard
-Solemn Simulacrum
-Gilded Lotus
These cards are notable additions which are being tested:
+Rule of Law
+Arcane Laboratory
+Jace Beleren
+Jace's Archivist
+Coalition Relic
-Arcane Laboratory (Redundancy not needed)
-Oblivion Ring
-Plains
+Tolaria West
+Detention Sphere (obvious upgrade)
+Serra's Sanctum (obvious upgrade)
+Sphere of the Suns
-Wall of Denial
+Venser, the Sojourner
-Rainbow Vale
+Mistveil Plains
-Kami of the Crescent Moon
+Karmic Justice
-Dragon Roost
+Copy Artifact
First, a couple actual replacements:
-Exotic Orchard
+Tithe - Tithe is as good as a land, so it took the spot of my least favorite.
-Font of Mythos
+Rhystic Study - Selfish card draw, and it's cheaper to boot.
-Confiscate
+Volition Reigns - More color intensive upgrade, but I never intend to hardcast this one.
-Decree of Silence
+Spell Crumple - Not usable after epic, but the ability to keep getting it back with Wild Research is worth trying.
Ok, then I took out all this stuff:
-Hive Mind
-Lucent Liminid
-Meishin, the Mind Cage
-Howling Mine
-Walking Archive
-Eldrazi Conscription
...for this stuff:
+Assemble the Legion
+Enlightened Tutor
+Idyllic Tutor
+Mystical Tutor
+Pentad Prism
+Torpor Orb
You will see that I took out the draw step draw stuff because Solitary Confinement shuts that off and I get Solitary Confinement online almost every game. Walking Archive also goes because he's too fragile and everyone else will draw before me. Hive Mind always feels like a Dick Move when I win with it (i.e. follow up with Enduring Ideal), and it backfires any time I don't. I have better ways to lock down a table than Meishin. Eldrazi Liminid seems to be my least reliable win condition, so to make room, those came out, too.
Changes to the list:
-Runed Halo
+Izzet Signet - I needed another mana rock and Runed Halo wasn’t pulling enough weight.
-Darksteel Ingot
+Boros Signet - I think it’s more important to cost 2 than to be indestructible and give me any color.
-Hanna, Ship’s Navigator
+Akroan Horse - I wasn’t willing to add more creatures to the deck, so one had to go for this. Hanna was actually getting the least use.
-Rule of Law
+Mana Maze - Same function, easier to play around.
-Honden of Seeing Winds
-Honden of Cleansing Fire
-Honden of Infinite Rage
+Mind Unbound
+Darksteel Mutation
+Purphoros, God of the Forge - Taking out Seeing Winds for Mind Unbound basically left the other shrines dead in the water. I was happy to have room for more removal and a new win condition.
-Collective Restraint
+Puca’s Mischief - I think two Propagandas and Sphere of Safety is enough, and I need Puca’s.
-Words of War
+Eldrazi Conscription - I really missed it. Sometimes it just feels too good to win with commander damage.
-Island
+Petrified Field - Neat new recursion tool for lands that get destroyed.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
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I imagine your general wasn't particularly synergistic in a 5c version of something like this. I ran a lot of global enchantments and artifacts specifically so Zedruu could pawn them off without changing their effectiveness at all. That said, I'm glad you like the list.
Budget isn't a concern. I just don't like Moat for this deck. It wants to play a game of politics and let opponents attack each other. This deck likes other people killing each other, because we're in it for the long game. Moat will also be answered right away, where a Propaganda or Sphere of Safety really won't.
I did just notice I'm missing Academy Rector. I'll have to find a spot for that.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
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StaffBecause I can't find room?
What would you cut for it? What about for an Academy Rector?
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StaffI also just realized Reiterate really doesn't fit the plan either. The whole reason I have those is to copy Enduring Ideal when I play it, and Reiterate isn't going to be bought back and played again.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Sorry man.
That's not how I read this:
Or does it not count because the War Riders put it in as a cost?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
It was changed there. Are you going off crystal keep?
http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/resources/rules/MagicCompRules_20121001.pdf
110.5a A token is both owned and controlled by the player under whose control it entered the battlefield.
Damn, I was going off the MTGS wiki.
Thanks for the clarification. At least it clears up a few slots in the deck.
Then again, I might just leave it. The Pyrohemia/Repercussion combo is too much fun.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
R: Each opponent takes 2 damage plus 4 damage for each creature they control, you take 1 damage plus 1 for each creature you control.
Very good call. I'm looking at making a few changes, and I'll reorganize the decklist. Just need a little more time.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
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I'm keeping Transcendence in the deck for now because, with Zedruu, it's still a way to take someone out of the game.
I've made another update to the OP, finding room for Second Chance, Wild Research, Academy Rector and High Market. I've also alphabetized everything but the lands.
I need to find room for War's Toll and Burning Sands. Other things I'm considering: Curse of Stalked Prey and Powerstone Minefield. Thoughts?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Second decklist added that's sorted by function.
Right now I'm debating the whole giving tokens away and Pyrohemia/Repercussion/Burning Sands/Vicious Shadows combo. If I take out Repercussion and Burning Sands, I can axe the give tokens away part and just add another cheap token producer for myself, like Sacred Mesa. I'll just have to test it more and see if it's really worth keeping.
Sometimes I feel like I need graveyard hate to deal with infinite combos or whatever, but then I realize most of those don't work on me anyway. What do I care if my opponent Lark's a horde of creatures into play? He can't pay the Propaganda for all of them. And a Mike/Trike-ing NecOoze can't target me. Both of these assume I didn't have Humility in play to begin with, either. So, I don't clog my deck with graveyard hate.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Because of Replenish. I actually want stuff in my graveyard.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
A couple cards of note:
Psychosis Crawler
I also use Illusions of Grandeur, donate to an opponent via Zed, then Venser, the Sojourner/Capsize it back to my side for more life swings - admittedly, thats a fragile one.
Pyromancer's Swath donated to an opponent, makes go into top deck mode
Statecraft
Wild Research was suggested before- for good reason.
Lastly, if you keep Dovescape, you can go infinite with that and Guile (plus any non-creature spell)
I like a lot of your choices though- I've been meaning to tweak my Zed deck for a while and I'll probably take some cues from you.
Basically, I tend to get myself into a position where no one can actually do anything to me. One player will get knocked out by the other two before they realize this, though, and then they turn to each other and say "Can you deal with him?" When they both say no, the next question is "Does that Zedruu deck even have a win-con?" I nod, and they say "Well, I'm not sticking around until you find it. GG."
Thanks much, and thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into it.
Yeah, I hadn't actually thought of it like that. I really like the interaction here, but I don't think it's worth putting Gisela into the deck. I'm sure there are Gisela decks out there that can put this idea to much better use. Pyroclasm, Earthquake, et al.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!