Currently have Riptide on sideboard for Chrome mox. Really enjoyed the kind of power it brought to the games I played so highly considering Mox Diamond as well.
I put riptide on the side since I had no idea what else would be a good cut and everyone says he's dumb so just went for it for now.
So current changes
Edit:
Anyone else getting this weird page error on this thread? If you click on the final page offered on the multiplayer commander decklist list of decks it will currently send you to page 114 when page 115 is the last one. Been having this for a few weeks now.
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
0 cmc rocks are the way to go. I think your next cut should def be for the second. Fast mana is just too good, especially here since we can do so much w/ 3 mana.
Should talisman be the next cut? I like it fine but with diamond and chrome entering it's easily the worst rock in the deck. It's not really under preforming or anything but it's clearly replaceable
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I'd say try it, but 4 mana turn three is kind of pivotal. At this point, you may be looking at Flusterstorm as a good add. ! cmc counters are pretty awesome, and now that I've been playing that for a while I can safely say its always a hard counter when you really need.
edit: I meant cut rock for rock, but I think both staying in is viable. However, theyre pretty dangerous without wheels imo. Until I have my timetwister I still feel like theyre a tad risky. The three decks I run them in have a redundant way to make up for the card lost dropping them. Wheels for Sharuum and Mizz, and now Monarch for Marchesa.
I was actually considering dispel, duress, and thoughtseize as a clear the way into faster wins.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Idk about discard. I considered it, but counters are just better options. I personally run Dispel in addition to Flusterstorm, as well as Spell Pierce. I did a rehaul to get greedier with the AN Sharuum build, heavily inspired by Skuloc's AN Doomsday Zur list. Early on everyone taps out. Between these and Mental Misstep it's been pretty great to actually counter early, pulling out those FoWs or just being a hard counter since everyone taps out or leaves a floating mana to use their own Swan Song or w/e. Then when youre on the other end, you only ever need one mana to counter since they're in the same position. It's made a far greater difference than I thought it could.
edit: I suppose, if it picks up, then everyone runs them and its just a tight battle like that. But I'm yet to see Dispel or Spell Pierce at any of my tables
I liked Spell Pierce as well. Storm seems interesting and something I would like to run. Did you try it here or only in your other decks?
I'm intrigued by discard since I saw moxnix running it and it seems good in his videos, but in those he faces a random meta in mtgo. I think they could underperform in certain defined metas.
But yeah, another reason why I don't see myself completely sold on discard is that it is proactive. Sure, you get rid of the answer, but it is guaranteed that whoever didn't expend or lose resources is going to win out on the exchange assuming all decks are equal power level or equally fast.
With counterspells, being reactive means that someone might just try and go for it first and then get stopped by that answer without you needing to expend resources.
Currently have Riptide on sideboard for Chrome mox. Really enjoyed the kind of power it brought to the games I played so highly considering Mox Diamond as well.
I put riptide on the side since I had no idea what else would be a good cut and everyone says he's dumb so just went for it for now.
So current changes
Edit:
Anyone else getting this weird page error on this thread? If you click on the final page offered on the multiplayer commander decklist list of decks it will currently send you to page 114 when page 115 is the last one. Been having this for a few weeks now.
So, I've been playing with Riptide for like 4 years and have found him to be fantastic. Thing is, I play him in a Mono-U Teferi build that relies heavily on devotion w/Nykthos, so Shifting him into Palinchron typically wins me the game on the spot (infinite mana, infinite archeomancer bounces+turn spells). Additionally, having him necessitates having different creature types in the deck or else you can whiff. For example, getting a clone specifically you can choose Sakashima, as he has subtype "rogue," rather than the typical "shapeshifter." Additionally, because Teferi gives creatures flash, I can EoT Riptide and combo off on my turn without disruption as well as split the 9 mana required to play him and activate over two turns vs one.
Riptide is a pretty sweet creature, but requires more constrained deckbuilding and is likely not as great in a reanimator shell. Just figured I'd give my 2c.
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I would appreciate the convincing. I have a foil Thoughtsieze and have always wanted to let it find a home in EDH. I'll swing on over to Mox's Grixis page and see what I can find.
When playing against zur or oloro ad naseum I often see duress, gitiaxan probe, and thoughtseize effects because knowledge of opponents hands is valueable since certain spells can screw you over. I was playing storm last night and played timetwister and cracked LED to gain mana. I didn't like the play since a counter on twister leaves me without a hand but it worked out
In here we sometimes have risky plays but probably not of that level. Our plan of cheating out out 10 mana 2nd general is kinda similar since we're using multiple resources for a win the game effect. I however am not a storm expert so I wouldn't know.
I do enjoy the idea of more cheap counters.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I can see talisman returning in the future so it's back on the testing board.
Also adding a few for potential adds so this is where I'm currently at:
Imperial seal (Sigh...)
Merfolk Looter
Thought Courier
Demon of Shadowy Schemes (I'm thinking this may not make the cut after all)
Morbid Cuiriousity (I'm thinking this will make the cut more and more)
Riptide shapeshifter (May not return, super good when good though)
Talisman of domiance (May return)
Dispel (Moar counters)
Spell peirce (MOAR)
Flusterstorm (MOAR!!!!!)
Thoughtseize and duress I'm not super sold on but highly considering as well, I'd like opinions on people, especially storm pilots
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Have you went against a decent Leovold deck? If so how does this fair?
Played against two different builds at my LGS.
One was pretty bad while one was optimized.
The optimized one actually did fairly bad in the group which makes me wonder if he truly is tier 1.
Abrupt decay, gilded drake, tons of early counters, toxic deluge, and being able to reanimate much bigger threats than Leo could ever be makes this a fairly favorable match up.
Then again I haven't had too many games against him quite yet
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
So glad to see this primer is alive and well, I love this list and what has become over time. You answered a bunch of questions for me on this thread back in April and I'm still getting all the cards together after some modern events distracted me this summer.
This might be an annoying question since your list is so finely tuned (and I'm going to build pretty close to this for competitive situations) but my main store isnt as fast/competitive as the one your deck is built for. If I were to add some land, some more controlling elements, and maybe pull back on the explosiveness for when I'm at this shop, do you have any advice for what that might look like?
Alternatively, if anyone who posts here has a more blended version of this deck on tappedout and wants to post a link that would be sweet.
All that said, I have a playgroup with faster decks that I want the most competitive build for, just curious how I should possibly approach it for when I'm at my shop.
Putting it more towards reanimator control without the combo is still pretty strong.
Cutting Palinchron, deadeye, riftsweeper, lab man, and tainted pact gives you 5 slots for more lands if you feel like those would work better and other decent reanimation targets like sire of stagnation or woodfall primus. Really it's more of what you feel like your meta needs answers to. 5 extra counters is well enough too. Is Jin too strong as well?
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I feel you are better off keeping the combo and cutting Jin (or cutting both). I don't know if your play group would like playing without a hand and you not having a win condition. It could make some really miserable games.
Putting out an early Jin without a way to end the game quickly is kind of hilarious, I can imagine that being pretty frustrating for a table of people to stare at. I suppose I'll need to feel it out and see what level the players at my shop can handle. There are several people there that have competitive builds that often play there so I know it isn't just a causal jank party, just unsure because I've read enough of this primer to understand what this deck is capable of if the table isn't prepared for it. I suppose I'll have to find a middle ground of Tasigur politics-control and a Reanimater package that can end the game without being too oppressive towards the budget decks or casual players.
I'm so used to 60 card constructed formats, the idea of removing optimal and competitive pieces seems so weird but EDH is such a unique format. I want to be able to play in both groups without having to change much about the deck.
What is the main function of Riftsweeper, does it facilitate part of the combo with lab man or is it just for the utility of getting back an exiled card?
Thanks for the quick response! I can't wait to finally sleeve this up.
What is the main function of Riftsweeper, does it facilitate part of the combo with lab man or is it just for the utility of getting back an exiled card?
He's in there for protection. If combo pieces get exiled or reanimation targets eat removal then he's a good way to get them back. Plus you can delve away cards willy nilly if you have a riftsweeper somewhere in the build
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
That's what I assumed, just wasn't sure if I was missing an interaction.
As far as my original question goes, I think Im just going to play the best version of this deck and not try to dilute it or take out Jin. If I'm at a slower table I don't have to go for the early kill just because my hand might allow for it. I'll just play to the level of the people I'm with and play the cards I want to play.
I'd rather have a 100% deck and play it at 75% if need be. Like tutoring for value plays rather than the combo kill for instance.
Compeletly makes sense to me. When I'm at a new place trying to gage the level of the group the first few games are always tuned down to see how the other decks fair. On occasion it's bad. Recently went to a group where they were playing proxys of super high powered cards so I figured let's go all out
Turns out it wasn't the case at all
Oops
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Offloaded one of my extra modern decks today and traded in to a pile of pieces for the deck, about halfway there now. Starting off with non foils of most of it, hopefully make it prettier later down the line.
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I put riptide on the side since I had no idea what else would be a good cut and everyone says he's dumb so just went for it for now.
So current changes
-Riptide shapeshifter
+Chrome mox
Edit:
Anyone else getting this weird page error on this thread? If you click on the final page offered on the multiplayer commander decklist list of decks it will currently send you to page 114 when page 115 is the last one. Been having this for a few weeks now.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
edit: I meant cut rock for rock, but I think both staying in is viable. However, theyre pretty dangerous without wheels imo. Until I have my timetwister I still feel like theyre a tad risky. The three decks I run them in have a redundant way to make up for the card lost dropping them. Wheels for Sharuum and Mizz, and now Monarch for Marchesa.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
edit: I suppose, if it picks up, then everyone runs them and its just a tight battle like that. But I'm yet to see Dispel or Spell Pierce at any of my tables
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I'm intrigued by discard since I saw moxnix running it and it seems good in his videos, but in those he faces a random meta in mtgo. I think they could underperform in certain defined metas.
But yeah, another reason why I don't see myself completely sold on discard is that it is proactive. Sure, you get rid of the answer, but it is guaranteed that whoever didn't expend or lose resources is going to win out on the exchange assuming all decks are equal power level or equally fast.
With counterspells, being reactive means that someone might just try and go for it first and then get stopped by that answer without you needing to expend resources.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
So, I've been playing with Riptide for like 4 years and have found him to be fantastic. Thing is, I play him in a Mono-U Teferi build that relies heavily on devotion w/Nykthos, so Shifting him into Palinchron typically wins me the game on the spot (infinite mana, infinite archeomancer bounces+turn spells). Additionally, having him necessitates having different creature types in the deck or else you can whiff. For example, getting a clone specifically you can choose Sakashima, as he has subtype "rogue," rather than the typical "shapeshifter." Additionally, because Teferi gives creatures flash, I can EoT Riptide and combo off on my turn without disruption as well as split the 9 mana required to play him and activate over two turns vs one.
Riptide is a pretty sweet creature, but requires more constrained deckbuilding and is likely not as great in a reanimator shell. Just figured I'd give my 2c.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
In here we sometimes have risky plays but probably not of that level. Our plan of cheating out out 10 mana 2nd general is kinda similar since we're using multiple resources for a win the game effect. I however am not a storm expert so I wouldn't know.
I do enjoy the idea of more cheap counters.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
+Mox Diamond
-Talisman of dominance
I can see talisman returning in the future so it's back on the testing board.
Also adding a few for potential adds so this is where I'm currently at:
Imperial seal (Sigh...)
Merfolk Looter
Thought Courier
Demon of Shadowy Schemes (I'm thinking this may not make the cut after all)
Morbid Cuiriousity (I'm thinking this will make the cut more and more)
Riptide shapeshifter (May not return, super good when good though)
Talisman of domiance (May return)
Dispel (Moar counters)
Spell peirce (MOAR)
Flusterstorm (MOAR!!!!!)
Thoughtseize and duress I'm not super sold on but highly considering as well, I'd like opinions on people, especially storm pilots
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Played against two different builds at my LGS.
One was pretty bad while one was optimized.
The optimized one actually did fairly bad in the group which makes me wonder if he truly is tier 1.
Abrupt decay, gilded drake, tons of early counters, toxic deluge, and being able to reanimate much bigger threats than Leo could ever be makes this a fairly favorable match up.
Then again I haven't had too many games against him quite yet
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Alternatively, if anyone who posts here has a more blended version of this deck on tappedout and wants to post a link that would be sweet.
All that said, I have a playgroup with faster decks that I want the most competitive build for, just curious how I should possibly approach it for when I'm at my shop.
Cutting Palinchron, deadeye, riftsweeper, lab man, and tainted pact gives you 5 slots for more lands if you feel like those would work better and other decent reanimation targets like sire of stagnation or woodfall primus. Really it's more of what you feel like your meta needs answers to. 5 extra counters is well enough too. Is Jin too strong as well?
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
I'm so used to 60 card constructed formats, the idea of removing optimal and competitive pieces seems so weird but EDH is such a unique format. I want to be able to play in both groups without having to change much about the deck.
What is the main function of Riftsweeper, does it facilitate part of the combo with lab man or is it just for the utility of getting back an exiled card?
Thanks for the quick response! I can't wait to finally sleeve this up.
He's in there for protection. If combo pieces get exiled or reanimation targets eat removal then he's a good way to get them back. Plus you can delve away cards willy nilly if you have a riftsweeper somewhere in the build
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
As far as my original question goes, I think Im just going to play the best version of this deck and not try to dilute it or take out Jin. If I'm at a slower table I don't have to go for the early kill just because my hand might allow for it. I'll just play to the level of the people I'm with and play the cards I want to play.
I'd rather have a 100% deck and play it at 75% if need be. Like tutoring for value plays rather than the combo kill for instance.
Turns out it wasn't the case at all
Oops
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake