@Tjornan Thought Scour isn't going to get you there. Yes, you'll mill your opponents. But you will also draw yourself out because it requires you to draw a card upon resolution. You can't do that infinitely without losing yourself, but you've got the right idea. The beauty of the Reality Shift win is that Reality shift is already really good as a removal piece in addition to functioning as a win condition.
I still really like Eternal Witness. The functionality with Deadeye is too good to pass, as it can create a counter lock with Prophet on board. Also being able to reanimate it has been relevant once or twice to get what I needed to win.
@Dies
Fair enough. I find my games going long enough that having land drops every turn is important. I don't like to spend mana to recur lands when I can do it for an initial investment of 3 mana and then never worry about it again.
Having Deadeye, Ewit, and Prophet out is a bit of a rare case, to be frank. Heck, I almost never want Ewit and Deadeye out at the same time; it takes a lot of mana and setup, and it risks a combo piece getting exiled.
Yes, Ewit recurs stuff in late game. However, I'd like to throw in more things that actually get me to late game. I'll find space for the 3 cantrips for this reason, among others.
Witness is tutorable with Survival and loops Living Death, and that's opens some powerful lines of play.
I for one don't run Reality Shift or any other way to kill with infinite mana (besides Nephalia). Whenever I assemble the combo I just go for the old fashioned way, Terastodon their boards, bounce it with Leviathan.
I was asked to demonstrate a kill twice, and I just activated Tasigur until I got a reanimation spell/tutor/draw or something that's not removal basically and won from there. I was never asked to do it again ahah.
Not that you're "wrong", but the a huge key of optimized singleton formats is the average Rate of Return per card.
having cantrips is one thing (although the value of cantrips drops hard in a multiplayer game) But there is absolutely no way a card that that scrys 2 and replaces itself at sorcery speed is going to be better on average than the creature with allows you to recur whatever you want and has obvious, easy to create synergies with the rest of the deck.
if you had a scale of 1 to 10, and play 100 games, there is no way in hell preordain every rates higher than E-Wit in this deck.
Werekill has had good results with Sign in Blood in our meta. In the early game it's +1 card, in the late game you can kill the table with it.
Seems like a solid plan b in the deck with reality shift.
I wouldn't play it over shift but I'd play with both of them for sure
Preordain is mostly used as a turn one play to make sure that mulligans are better off.
The issue with witness is double green isn't reached often in early turns, so she's often used as a value reanimation or combo
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Not that you're "wrong", but the a huge key of optimized singleton formats is the average Rate of Return per card.
having cantrips is one thing (although the value of cantrips drops hard in a multiplayer game) But there is absolutely no way a card that that scrys 2 and replaces itself at sorcery speed is going to be better on average than the creature with allows you to recur whatever you want and has obvious, easy to create synergies with the rest of the deck.
if you had a scale of 1 to 10, and play 100 games, there is no way in hell preordain every rates higher than E-Wit in this deck.
While I don't play any cantrips except Brainstorm, I think cantrips are pretty useful depending on how you want to build the deck. I don't run cantrips because I want my cards to have more impact in the late game and I've skewed my deck more towards control. Cantrips ensure early game consistency which make it more probable to effectively "combo" faster. Cantrips allow you to see more cards over the course of a game than E. Witness might, but I agree that E. Witness provides better overall synergy with the deck and allows more lines of play in the late game than cantrips do.
I still like Praetor's Grasp as my backup. It references the best Reanimatable minion that is in the deck!
I still like Praetor's Grasp as my backup. It references the best Reanimatable minion that is in the deck!
Sheoldred?
She sucks
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Hey, just wanted to say that I love this deck list. I've been playing a "95%" version* of it for awhile and nothing has been so consistent or fun. I've gotten a small number of people asking for a list or my inspiration, and I send them your way.
I've nothing to add the conversation; just wanted to give props. Wish I could find other lists or archetypes that run this smoothly.
Thanks for the kind words. Ever since this thread got popular I've run into people in real life talking bout it and a few who try their own decks. I personally can't wait til I 100 percent this deck myself.
If you're looking for consistant decks though there are quite a few out there that are better than this one too. Granted I don't think any of them are reanimator.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I still like Praetor's Grasp as my backup. It references the best Reanimatable minion that is in the deck!
Sheoldred?
She sucks
No, no, it references Praetor, which Jin-Git is. Duh
I think Reanimator/Control is actually a really consistent archetype. The mana investment to pull off your "combo" is so small that you can easily and more consistently pull it off in the late game and due to the nature of Tasigur and the Reanimator package we run, our cards are always viable in the late game. I think the top-tier deck type to beat are Deveri Stax and Storm variants, particularly Moxnix's Jeleva storm list. Those decks have more redundancy in their lists because each card is particularly chosen to maximize the mana to card ratio and each piece HAS to be effective in the combo. But, that's also their weakness too. If you can counter or deal with the specific cards that they need to go off, the rest of their decklist lacks the versatility and control elements that make our list shine in the late game. Landing an early Terastodon to target their mana sources basically causes them to be irrelevant for the rest of the game. Countering High Tide and forcing them to spend more mana to protect their mana-doubler causes them to lose more mana access. Strip Mine their first mana source and they severely stumble to get set up. In short, finding ways to limit their mana causes them to fizzle or take longer to set up their board. Basically, I think that Reanimator "combo" is always viable at any stage in the game whereas Storm variants lose some late game consistency. And let's face it, the politics at the table would usually hate out the Storm list much faster than Reanimator.
Yup. Reanimator is fun. I wish there was a cool EDH Dredge list that was super consistent and similar to Legacy Dredge, as that was the archetype that initially got me interested in 'yard mechanics in the first place. Dredge was fun to play at Legacy events when the meta wasn't prepared for it, and a very challenging game if the opponent was a skilled pilot and drew the right 'yard hate. Good stuff.
I don't run cantrips because I want my cards to have more impact in the late game and I've skewed my deck more towards control. Cantrips ensure early game consistency which make it more probable to effectively "combo" faster. Cantrips allow you to see more cards over the course of a game than E. Witness might, but I agree that E. Witness provides better overall synergy with the deck and allows more lines of play in the late game than cantrips do.
You have the luxury of skewing your list towards the late game expensive stuff because you run Titan. Without the ability to get a engine that advance our mana resources it's harder to justify cutting cantrips and the consistency that they provide for me. I've been getting the feeling lately that banning Primeval and Primordial affected us more than Griselbrand.
I had on of those days when the deck loved me today. My objective was to test more in depth Tasigur and I wasn't able to cast him in any of the three games because I won them early.
Game 1 - Ponder, setting up t2 Entomb with Song backup, t3 Jin, t4 Intuition for combo pieces/looters with Force, Misdirection and Song backup, t5 Living Death. On opponent had Vexing Susher which he used on somenones counterspell, too bad Misdirection doesn't care ahah.
Game 2 - Preordain, t2 Vampiric, t3 Buried Alive for Delver+combo, t4 reanimate with backup ftw
Game 3 - t1 Entomb, t2 Jin and the table concedes.
With Prime time and Primordial we ran a lot more copy effects and Flash to benefit from the land advantage and shortly after we often win the game.
With griselbrand we get him out early and opponents try to kill him or whatever, if they do we draw 30+ cards and win next turn, if they don't we draw 30+ cards and win the game. Griselbrand was miles ahead of Jin as far as best reanimation target while he was legal.
I think Prime time and Sylvan are on the same level as Jin with primordial maybe being a little ahead
Opponents often put Griselbrand in hand over Palinchron/Deadeye with intuition piles and I think that was right actually.
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Yeaaaah benjameenbear, I don't think your build is quite like ours. Prime time is just insane by himself, as is Recurring Nightmare. They both take the deck to insane heights and let you focus on late game cards since you'll have so much mana.
Anyway on my build: Ewit came out for Sakura elder, mostly for color fixing but it also feeds Tasigur's cost. I'll likely swap it for Spellskite when I get one.
Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm are in, taking the spots of Murderous Cut (which was in Maelstrom Pulse's slot), Arcane Denial (which replaced Stifle for a bit), and a land. So far I haven't actually seen them in game, so no comment on their effectiveness.
Song of the Dryads is amazing. Holy crap. It stops every single general, problem lands, anything. Heck in a 1v1 game it hit Crucible once, which was amazing.
Tonight was two headed giant with ajacobik's Vendilion Clique... Heheheheheheh. We won. My favorite game was when we baited out a Pact of Negation and blew up the lands the guy needed.
So enough about that, let's talk about why Ewit should be cut.
1. It is a mostly dead card in early game. In a build with so many already dead cards early (all our reanimation targets), we need to focus hard on our early game. Ewit costs 3 mana, two of which is a non-focused color in our build, and it requires you to have already played something relevant before casting it, so it's nearly completely useless until turn 4, if not more. And turn 4 is only if you want to reuse something that is 1 mana.
2. Most of the things we want back are creatures, and hey... Our build has a lot of rez power. Recurring Instants and Sorceries is strong, but we already have snapcaster for that for less mana AND with flash attached, not to mention our multiple slots for similar instant and sorcery effects. Our only other targets are enchantments and artifacts, and none of those (barring Survival) are worth recurring minus worst case scenarios. I'd rather have redundancies in my non-creature slots instead.
3. Ewit is expensive as helllll to use then cast what you recurred, unless you recur something like Entomb. That's 4 mana mininum, and it only climbs from there.
4. The synergy with Living Death is strong, but you shouldn't have to cast Living Death twice except for the worst case scenarios. Plus that relies on you having Ewit in your grave already, which is rare outside of Survival or a discard effect, and you'll rarely if ever want to discard Ewit to begin with. Same argument goes for Victimize.
5. Ewit with Deadeye+Prophet is cute, but why would you ever cast Deadeye before you combo? Not to mention how this is a three card combo that ALSO relies on you having things in your grave to recur and reuse. I suppose it's easier if you have Prophet out, flash in Ewit next turn, flash in Deadeye next turn, but that's risky as hell unless you have 8 mana ready to protect that Deadeye after casting it.
6. Yes it's tutorable with Survival... But why would you want to tutor for Ewit when you can set up your combo or get a piece of protection (spellskite) for the Jin you just threw in the grave?
I truly believe that in this build, it is just not a good card. Please think again on the slot, it took me a while to get past the idea of auto-including it in any deck with green.
I don't run cantrips because I want my cards to have more impact in the late game and I've skewed my deck more towards control. Cantrips ensure early game consistency which make it more probable to effectively "combo" faster. Cantrips allow you to see more cards over the course of a game than E. Witness might, but I agree that E. Witness provides better overall synergy with the deck and allows more lines of play in the late game than cantrips do.
You have the luxury of skewing your list towards the late game expensive stuff because you run Titan. Without the ability to get a engine that advance our mana resources it's harder to justify cutting cantrips and the consistency that they provide for me. I've been getting the feeling lately that banning Primeval and Primordial affected us more than Griselbrand.
I had on of those days when the deck loved me today. My objective was to test more in depth Tasigur and I wasn't able to cast him in any of the three games because I won them early.
Game 1 - Ponder, setting up t2 Entomb with Song backup, t3 Jin, t4 Intuition for combo pieces/looters with Force, Misdirection and Song backup, t5 Living Death. On opponent had Vexing Susher which he used on somenones counterspell, too bad Misdirection doesn't care ahah.
Game 2 - Preordain, t2 Vampiric, t3 Buried Alive for Delver+combo, t4 reanimate with backup ftw
Game 3 - t1 Entomb, t2 Jin and the table concedes.
You definitely have a fair point that being able to Reanimate Prime Time allows me to accelerate way more rapidly into the late game than your sanctioned, ban-observing lists. I can't deny that Prime Time is frequently my first Reanimatable target, depending on what I'm playing against. Jin-Gitaxias is still the bomb on T2 or T3. I had some interesting games and Tooth and Nail was the way I won each in the game that I won. Feldon got the other win with Tasigur due to a pretty cool combo I'll describe in my game report. It was pretty vicious. The other game I played I never wanted Prime Time, but that was because I had one of the fastest starts I've ever seen with this deck.
In my defense, since I've been testing a proper ban-observing list for an upcoming tourney, my list still seems to run pretty well even without the banned cards that my playgroup allows. I kinda miss Primeval Titan but Recurring Nightmare is a card I don't miss at all. Frequently, it's the worst reanimate in my hand because it requires dudes to sac. Tasigur makes this less of a liability, but in those early game turns where I don't have a dork and I'm playing control, Recurring Nightmare sits in hand. I personally don't see why it's banned, but it's been banned since I started playing. I guess you can just start recurring creature loops pretty easily, but that's been easily disrupted with 'yard hate as of late. I definitely think that my list is more of a control list with a Reanimator combo whereas the majority of the lists here that are ban-observing are Reanimator Combo first with a control backup. I definitely have some perks for being in my playgroup with their ban-list decisions.
Anyways, a few game reports:
5 Man with Feldon of the Third Path, Tasigur(me), Liliana, Brago, and Glissa the Traitor
So the first game of the night was glorious. I opened with Mana Crypt, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Verdant Catacombs, Island, Notion Thief, Eternal Witness, and another card I never play and don't remember. My first draw? Sol Ring. Dumb, dumb, super fast mana start. I play all my fast mana by Crypt and fetch land, tap Crypt for the Tribe Elder and sac it at my opponent's EOT, and with the floating 1 mana play Sol Ring. I untap on T2 with 6 mana in play. I play a land on my turn and pass the turn. I play Notion Thief during my opponent's turn to secure any future card draw. T3 I play a land I drew and play Tasigur. I activate Tasigur and flip over Consecrated Sphinx and Brainstorm. I get the Brainstorm and play it at the EOT of my opponent and draw into Tooth and Nail, land, Delay. All my opponents are tapped out and Brago had already expended a his Force of Will, so on my T4 I play Tooth and Nail entwined with my 9 mana. The end.
Another 5 man with Sliver Overlord, Brago, Glissa, Feldon, Tasigur(me)
This game was a little slower and less memorable to me since I didn't have too much going on. Since I won I go last and I'm keeping an eye on Sliver Overlord because Slivers can be a really broken Tribe if built correctly. I needn't have worried; the player and the decklist didn't warrant my concern. I decide to keep a hand with no early game Reanimation and no real mana dorks. Turns out I shouldn't have kept that, as I should have tried for a faster start. Brago has the stronger start and had Sol Ring and another one with Copy Artifact and was building a board presence quickly. Feldon plays Aether Flash and I was having a slow start. I don't remember all the details of this game, but I know that I had enough mana to Sultai Charm Brago's Blade of Selves on his T5 as he equipped it. Unbeknownst to us, Feldon had quietly assembled an infinite combo with Goblin Welder, Thornbite Staff, and Wurmcoil Engine and the red-mana Myr. I'm tapped out with no free counterspells in hand because I had just handled Brago's play to equip the Blade, and Glissa had just played Necropotence. At Glissa's EOT, Feldon taps a looter he had in play to pitch Wurmcoil to his 'yard. Thornbite Staff was attached to Goblin Welder. Goblin Welder welds the Red generating myr to get Wurmcoil to play, Thornbite staff untaps the Welder. He taps the Welder to sac the Wurmcoil, Wurmcoil generates 2 dudes and the Myr hops out of the 'yard and the Welder untaps. Welder sacs the Myr, Wurmcoil hops out of the 'yard, Thornbite untaps Welder. Rinse and repeat for infinite wurmcoil engine tokens. He untaps with an arbitrary amount of wurm tokens and we die. It was pretty cool to see mono-Red get there with combo, especially since no one was expecting it, and I know now to look for it in the future.
It was good to play Magic again, since it had definitely been a while and I was really pleased with my deck performance and the way it played out. Happy BUG-ing.
EDIT: Werekill, you have some really strong arguments for Eternal Witness being cut. I will definitely consider them, as I've not really considered it before. And my E. Wit is an FNM foil and looks SO pretty.
Eternal witness is probably one of the more weaker cards in the deck...probably by far.
My main hesitation with cutting it is real stupid.
Also I can't think of something good enough to cut for it.
Unless I get an Imperial seal....which I will...eventually
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Thoughts on Sign in Blood as a potential switch for E-wit? I personally would appreciate the extra win con, and I don't think I've ever wanted to cast E-wit...
But then again E-wit has long game potential and it's kind of nice for it to be a 4-5 mama reanimate late game if you cast and get back any of our reanimate spells.
Also double black could be a little rough on the mama base early game I suppose.
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My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I'm sure there has to be something better than Sign in blood here.
I like the card fine but Night's Whisper is almost always better unless we're going for that infinite kill.
If shift is exiled for whatever reason becomes a problem then maybe I can see this but I've yet to have it happen.
I almost feel like Oona, queen of the fae would be a good choice here as well since it's a decent card by itself, kills with infinite, and can mess with top of deck tutors as well. I doubt she's good enough here but it's just a thought
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I don't mean that Griselbrand isn't more powerful, just that losing the ability to produce mana resources affects us more as we don't have any other decent options.
We have some redundancy in card draw targets, and miss a lot the ability to outresource the table as it even helps us get back into the game after a bad start.
I do agree Witness is probably card number 98 or 99, but I still think it's worth it.
I don't think we need extra wincons, and due to the nature of the deck I feel that assemble an engine is much more important than getting a random 2 for 1. And don't forget that Witness is also a wincon and a random 2 for 1, that draws you a card from your grave and protects you from edicts.
I agree on Niht's Whisper. If anything maybe Compulsive Research can be decent as it has a better mana cost colorwise, digs deeper and loots.
I think you already tested Oona in the past, Doom, but maybe I'm misremembering.
Sign in Blood has been neat in my build so far, but it hasn't been an all star. It's just another good piece of early game fuel with some great utility if Reality Shift is exiled.
Although since I run Scroll Rack, I can just draw my deck with Tasigur, use Terastodon+Leviathan then play every creature in my deck, then use scroll rack to keep myself from ever milling myself out. So Sign in Blood might not be worth keeping in, minus the easier kill. May make the swap to Night's Whisper.
Necropotence has been another all star for sure, but that may be just my build compared to yours.
How about testing Dark Petition in that slot for a bit? It trades a mostly late game slot for a mid-late game Demonic Tutor. Either that or Delver.
Compulsive Research would be a lot better than sign in blood here. Also helps that it was already in the deck before and it was pretty good. I cut it because it's not an instant so that hurt it but it's still not bad.
I don't remember testing Oona but who knows. I considered her when I had Pestilence demon as a kill condition as well but decided that I probably don't need another one. That's likely still the case with the deck more polished than it was back then.
Would you guys want Shadow of doubt over eternal witness here? I can see it being useful espcially with Tasigur "Politics" by screwing over other people
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Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
C
Would you guys want Shadow of doubt over eternal witness here? I can see it being useful espcially with Tasigur "Politics" by screwing over other people
It's not the best, but I was using it a lot more than E wit. I think this would file under a "Plan C" card, but I think the deck can afford it if you dont want more digging power. That said, the card is bonkers. Its such a great niche, it stops tutoring, it can act as land destruction, stop tutoring that isn't a spell, and stop a tutor protected by "can't be countered" Then add on to that if you're playing out late game with tas when odds are everyone is aiming to win, there's a pretty good chance more than one player will tutor. I know I've had a soft lock with Tas, Prophet, and Shadow.
When you have the mana you can just win with the cards that we were already running anyway, no need to get fancy.
I'm still testing Necro, but it's been hard to evaluate as I rarely get it. I could tutor it more often just to see it but I doing that with the Eldrazi has lead to some mediocre games.
I wouldn't play Petition for the reasons I mentioned back when it was first brought up.
I don't see the point in Shadow of Doubt, doesn't further our gameplan in any way and it's only a minor set back for the opponents.
Actually, Shadow of Doubt may be the card to swap with Sign in Blood for me... Hmm. We'll see! Going ahead and putting Night's Whisper in that slot though. I would do Compulsive Research but I don't like the 3 cmc of it.
Seriously though, guys... Test Dark Petition. I keep saying it a lot, but the card has been amazing for me. Just put it in Ewit's slot and give it a shot.
On another note, Forbidden Alchemy has been kinda eh for me? Several friends have suggested Cryptic Command over it since my mana base can support it. I'm not quite sure, though. I'm strongly leaning towards just keeping it in.
Forbidden Alchemy is one of the better cards in the list. Allows us to semi dig through time and put the cards we want in the grave. I'm never sad to see it in my hand.
Cryptic is too slow, 4 cmc for a counter is too much and the other modes aren't relevant enough here.
I agree that I don't like research in the 3 cmc slot because all of the other ones (like forbidden alchemy) are just so much better but I think it's a better option than sign in blood
As far as shadow of a doubt being only a minor setback, keep in mind that my group uses maximum fetch lands and often in response to tutors or whatever. We run literally ever tutor possible (2/6 of us have the imperial seals too) so shadow of doubt would hit a lot and cantrips as well. Getting the land destruction or counter with a draw seems great. I wouldn't play it in a group without a ton of fetches or tutors but when it hits it's great.
I've seem it used on a boundless realms...it was beautiful.
Then again boundless realms sucks so it was mostly for humor
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Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
@Tjornan
Thought Scour isn't going to get you there. Yes, you'll mill your opponents. But you will also draw yourself out because it requires you to draw a card upon resolution. You can't do that infinitely without losing yourself, but you've got the right idea. The beauty of the Reality Shift win is that Reality shift is already really good as a removal piece in addition to functioning as a win condition.
I still really like Eternal Witness. The functionality with Deadeye is too good to pass, as it can create a counter lock with Prophet on board. Also being able to reanimate it has been relevant once or twice to get what I needed to win.
@Dies
Fair enough. I find my games going long enough that having land drops every turn is important. I don't like to spend mana to recur lands when I can do it for an initial investment of 3 mana and then never worry about it again.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Yes, Ewit recurs stuff in late game. However, I'd like to throw in more things that actually get me to late game. I'll find space for the 3 cantrips for this reason, among others.
I for one don't run Reality Shift or any other way to kill with infinite mana (besides Nephalia). Whenever I assemble the combo I just go for the old fashioned way, Terastodon their boards, bounce it with Leviathan.
I was asked to demonstrate a kill twice, and I just activated Tasigur until I got a reanimation spell/tutor/draw or something that's not removal basically and won from there. I was never asked to do it again ahah.
having cantrips is one thing (although the value of cantrips drops hard in a multiplayer game) But there is absolutely no way a card that that scrys 2 and replaces itself at sorcery speed is going to be better on average than the creature with allows you to recur whatever you want and has obvious, easy to create synergies with the rest of the deck.
if you had a scale of 1 to 10, and play 100 games, there is no way in hell preordain every rates higher than E-Wit in this deck.
Seems like a solid plan b in the deck with reality shift.
I wouldn't play it over shift but I'd play with both of them for sure
Preordain is mostly used as a turn one play to make sure that mulligans are better off.
The issue with witness is double green isn't reached often in early turns, so she's often used as a value reanimation or combo
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
While I don't play any cantrips except Brainstorm, I think cantrips are pretty useful depending on how you want to build the deck. I don't run cantrips because I want my cards to have more impact in the late game and I've skewed my deck more towards control. Cantrips ensure early game consistency which make it more probable to effectively "combo" faster. Cantrips allow you to see more cards over the course of a game than E. Witness might, but I agree that E. Witness provides better overall synergy with the deck and allows more lines of play in the late game than cantrips do.
I still like Praetor's Grasp as my backup. It references the best Reanimatable minion that is in the deck!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Sheoldred?
She sucks
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
I've nothing to add the conversation; just wanted to give props. Wish I could find other lists or archetypes that run this smoothly.
If you're looking for consistant decks though there are quite a few out there that are better than this one too. Granted I don't think any of them are reanimator.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
No, no, it references Praetor, which Jin-Git is. Duh
I think Reanimator/Control is actually a really consistent archetype. The mana investment to pull off your "combo" is so small that you can easily and more consistently pull it off in the late game and due to the nature of Tasigur and the Reanimator package we run, our cards are always viable in the late game. I think the top-tier deck type to beat are Deveri Stax and Storm variants, particularly Moxnix's Jeleva storm list. Those decks have more redundancy in their lists because each card is particularly chosen to maximize the mana to card ratio and each piece HAS to be effective in the combo. But, that's also their weakness too. If you can counter or deal with the specific cards that they need to go off, the rest of their decklist lacks the versatility and control elements that make our list shine in the late game. Landing an early Terastodon to target their mana sources basically causes them to be irrelevant for the rest of the game. Countering High Tide and forcing them to spend more mana to protect their mana-doubler causes them to lose more mana access. Strip Mine their first mana source and they severely stumble to get set up. In short, finding ways to limit their mana causes them to fizzle or take longer to set up their board. Basically, I think that Reanimator "combo" is always viable at any stage in the game whereas Storm variants lose some late game consistency. And let's face it, the politics at the table would usually hate out the Storm list much faster than Reanimator.
Yup. Reanimator is fun. I wish there was a cool EDH Dredge list that was super consistent and similar to Legacy Dredge, as that was the archetype that initially got me interested in 'yard mechanics in the first place. Dredge was fun to play at Legacy events when the meta wasn't prepared for it, and a very challenging game if the opponent was a skilled pilot and drew the right 'yard hate. Good stuff.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
You have the luxury of skewing your list towards the late game expensive stuff because you run Titan. Without the ability to get a engine that advance our mana resources it's harder to justify cutting cantrips and the consistency that they provide for me. I've been getting the feeling lately that banning Primeval and Primordial affected us more than Griselbrand.
I had on of those days when the deck loved me today. My objective was to test more in depth Tasigur and I wasn't able to cast him in any of the three games because I won them early.
Game 1 - Ponder, setting up t2 Entomb with Song backup, t3 Jin, t4 Intuition for combo pieces/looters with Force, Misdirection and Song backup, t5 Living Death. On opponent had Vexing Susher which he used on somenones counterspell, too bad Misdirection doesn't care ahah.
Game 2 - Preordain, t2 Vampiric, t3 Buried Alive for Delver+combo, t4 reanimate with backup ftw
Game 3 - t1 Entomb, t2 Jin and the table concedes.
With griselbrand we get him out early and opponents try to kill him or whatever, if they do we draw 30+ cards and win next turn, if they don't we draw 30+ cards and win the game. Griselbrand was miles ahead of Jin as far as best reanimation target while he was legal.
I think Prime time and Sylvan are on the same level as Jin with primordial maybe being a little ahead
Opponents often put Griselbrand in hand over Palinchron/Deadeye with intuition piles and I think that was right actually.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Anyway on my build: Ewit came out for Sakura elder, mostly for color fixing but it also feeds Tasigur's cost. I'll likely swap it for Spellskite when I get one.
Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm are in, taking the spots of Murderous Cut (which was in Maelstrom Pulse's slot), Arcane Denial (which replaced Stifle for a bit), and a land. So far I haven't actually seen them in game, so no comment on their effectiveness.
Song of the Dryads is amazing. Holy crap. It stops every single general, problem lands, anything. Heck in a 1v1 game it hit Crucible once, which was amazing.
Tonight was two headed giant with ajacobik's Vendilion Clique... Heheheheheheh. We won. My favorite game was when we baited out a Pact of Negation and blew up the lands the guy needed.
So enough about that, let's talk about why Ewit should be cut.
1. It is a mostly dead card in early game. In a build with so many already dead cards early (all our reanimation targets), we need to focus hard on our early game. Ewit costs 3 mana, two of which is a non-focused color in our build, and it requires you to have already played something relevant before casting it, so it's nearly completely useless until turn 4, if not more. And turn 4 is only if you want to reuse something that is 1 mana.
2. Most of the things we want back are creatures, and hey... Our build has a lot of rez power. Recurring Instants and Sorceries is strong, but we already have snapcaster for that for less mana AND with flash attached, not to mention our multiple slots for similar instant and sorcery effects. Our only other targets are enchantments and artifacts, and none of those (barring Survival) are worth recurring minus worst case scenarios. I'd rather have redundancies in my non-creature slots instead.
3. Ewit is expensive as helllll to use then cast what you recurred, unless you recur something like Entomb. That's 4 mana mininum, and it only climbs from there.
4. The synergy with Living Death is strong, but you shouldn't have to cast Living Death twice except for the worst case scenarios. Plus that relies on you having Ewit in your grave already, which is rare outside of Survival or a discard effect, and you'll rarely if ever want to discard Ewit to begin with. Same argument goes for Victimize.
5. Ewit with Deadeye+Prophet is cute, but why would you ever cast Deadeye before you combo? Not to mention how this is a three card combo that ALSO relies on you having things in your grave to recur and reuse. I suppose it's easier if you have Prophet out, flash in Ewit next turn, flash in Deadeye next turn, but that's risky as hell unless you have 8 mana ready to protect that Deadeye after casting it.
6. Yes it's tutorable with Survival... But why would you want to tutor for Ewit when you can set up your combo or get a piece of protection (spellskite) for the Jin you just threw in the grave?
I truly believe that in this build, it is just not a good card. Please think again on the slot, it took me a while to get past the idea of auto-including it in any deck with green.
You definitely have a fair point that being able to Reanimate Prime Time allows me to accelerate way more rapidly into the late game than your sanctioned, ban-observing lists. I can't deny that Prime Time is frequently my first Reanimatable target, depending on what I'm playing against. Jin-Gitaxias is still the bomb on T2 or T3. I had some interesting games and Tooth and Nail was the way I won each in the game that I won. Feldon got the other win with Tasigur due to a pretty cool combo I'll describe in my game report. It was pretty vicious. The other game I played I never wanted Prime Time, but that was because I had one of the fastest starts I've ever seen with this deck.
In my defense, since I've been testing a proper ban-observing list for an upcoming tourney, my list still seems to run pretty well even without the banned cards that my playgroup allows. I kinda miss Primeval Titan but Recurring Nightmare is a card I don't miss at all. Frequently, it's the worst reanimate in my hand because it requires dudes to sac. Tasigur makes this less of a liability, but in those early game turns where I don't have a dork and I'm playing control, Recurring Nightmare sits in hand. I personally don't see why it's banned, but it's been banned since I started playing. I guess you can just start recurring creature loops pretty easily, but that's been easily disrupted with 'yard hate as of late. I definitely think that my list is more of a control list with a Reanimator combo whereas the majority of the lists here that are ban-observing are Reanimator Combo first with a control backup. I definitely have some perks for being in my playgroup with their ban-list decisions.
Anyways, a few game reports:
5 Man with Feldon of the Third Path, Tasigur(me), Liliana, Brago, and Glissa the Traitor
So the first game of the night was glorious. I opened with Mana Crypt, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Verdant Catacombs, Island, Notion Thief, Eternal Witness, and another card I never play and don't remember. My first draw? Sol Ring. Dumb, dumb, super fast mana start. I play all my fast mana by Crypt and fetch land, tap Crypt for the Tribe Elder and sac it at my opponent's EOT, and with the floating 1 mana play Sol Ring. I untap on T2 with 6 mana in play. I play a land on my turn and pass the turn. I play Notion Thief during my opponent's turn to secure any future card draw. T3 I play a land I drew and play Tasigur. I activate Tasigur and flip over Consecrated Sphinx and Brainstorm. I get the Brainstorm and play it at the EOT of my opponent and draw into Tooth and Nail, land, Delay. All my opponents are tapped out and Brago had already expended a his Force of Will, so on my T4 I play Tooth and Nail entwined with my 9 mana. The end.
This game was a little slower and less memorable to me since I didn't have too much going on. Since I won I go last and I'm keeping an eye on Sliver Overlord because Slivers can be a really broken Tribe if built correctly. I needn't have worried; the player and the decklist didn't warrant my concern. I decide to keep a hand with no early game Reanimation and no real mana dorks. Turns out I shouldn't have kept that, as I should have tried for a faster start. Brago has the stronger start and had Sol Ring and another one with Copy Artifact and was building a board presence quickly. Feldon plays Aether Flash and I was having a slow start. I don't remember all the details of this game, but I know that I had enough mana to Sultai Charm Brago's Blade of Selves on his T5 as he equipped it. Unbeknownst to us, Feldon had quietly assembled an infinite combo with Goblin Welder, Thornbite Staff, and Wurmcoil Engine and the red-mana Myr. I'm tapped out with no free counterspells in hand because I had just handled Brago's play to equip the Blade, and Glissa had just played Necropotence. At Glissa's EOT, Feldon taps a looter he had in play to pitch Wurmcoil to his 'yard. Thornbite Staff was attached to Goblin Welder. Goblin Welder welds the Red generating myr to get Wurmcoil to play, Thornbite staff untaps the Welder. He taps the Welder to sac the Wurmcoil, Wurmcoil generates 2 dudes and the Myr hops out of the 'yard and the Welder untaps. Welder sacs the Myr, Wurmcoil hops out of the 'yard, Thornbite untaps Welder. Rinse and repeat for infinite wurmcoil engine tokens. He untaps with an arbitrary amount of wurm tokens and we die. It was pretty cool to see mono-Red get there with combo, especially since no one was expecting it, and I know now to look for it in the future.
It was good to play Magic again, since it had definitely been a while and I was really pleased with my deck performance and the way it played out. Happy BUG-ing.
EDIT: Werekill, you have some really strong arguments for Eternal Witness being cut. I will definitely consider them, as I've not really considered it before. And my E. Wit is an FNM foil and looks SO pretty.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
My main hesitation with cutting it is real stupid.
Also I can't think of something good enough to cut for it.
Unless I get an Imperial seal....which I will...eventually
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
But then again E-wit has long game potential and it's kind of nice for it to be a 4-5 mama reanimate late game if you cast and get back any of our reanimate spells.
Also double black could be a little rough on the mama base early game I suppose.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
I like the card fine but Night's Whisper is almost always better unless we're going for that infinite kill.
If shift is exiled for whatever reason becomes a problem then maybe I can see this but I've yet to have it happen.
I almost feel like Oona, queen of the fae would be a good choice here as well since it's a decent card by itself, kills with infinite, and can mess with top of deck tutors as well. I doubt she's good enough here but it's just a thought
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
We have some redundancy in card draw targets, and miss a lot the ability to outresource the table as it even helps us get back into the game after a bad start.
I do agree Witness is probably card number 98 or 99, but I still think it's worth it.
I don't think we need extra wincons, and due to the nature of the deck I feel that assemble an engine is much more important than getting a random 2 for 1. And don't forget that Witness is also a wincon and a random 2 for 1, that draws you a card from your grave and protects you from edicts.
I agree on Niht's Whisper. If anything maybe Compulsive Research can be decent as it has a better mana cost colorwise, digs deeper and loots.
I think you already tested Oona in the past, Doom, but maybe I'm misremembering.
Although since I run Scroll Rack, I can just draw my deck with Tasigur, use Terastodon+Leviathan then play every creature in my deck, then use scroll rack to keep myself from ever milling myself out. So Sign in Blood might not be worth keeping in, minus the easier kill. May make the swap to Night's Whisper.
Necropotence has been another all star for sure, but that may be just my build compared to yours.
How about testing Dark Petition in that slot for a bit? It trades a mostly late game slot for a mid-late game Demonic Tutor. Either that or Delver.
I don't remember testing Oona but who knows. I considered her when I had Pestilence demon as a kill condition as well but decided that I probably don't need another one. That's likely still the case with the deck more polished than it was back then.
Would you guys want Shadow of doubt over eternal witness here? I can see it being useful espcially with Tasigur "Politics" by screwing over other people
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
It's not the best, but I was using it a lot more than E wit. I think this would file under a "Plan C" card, but I think the deck can afford it if you dont want more digging power. That said, the card is bonkers. Its such a great niche, it stops tutoring, it can act as land destruction, stop tutoring that isn't a spell, and stop a tutor protected by "can't be countered" Then add on to that if you're playing out late game with tas when odds are everyone is aiming to win, there's a pretty good chance more than one player will tutor. I know I've had a soft lock with Tas, Prophet, and Shadow.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I'm still testing Necro, but it's been hard to evaluate as I rarely get it. I could tutor it more often just to see it but I doing that with the Eldrazi has lead to some mediocre games.
I wouldn't play Petition for the reasons I mentioned back when it was first brought up.
I don't see the point in Shadow of Doubt, doesn't further our gameplan in any way and it's only a minor set back for the opponents.
Seriously though, guys... Test Dark Petition. I keep saying it a lot, but the card has been amazing for me. Just put it in Ewit's slot and give it a shot.
On another note, Forbidden Alchemy has been kinda eh for me? Several friends have suggested Cryptic Command over it since my mana base can support it. I'm not quite sure, though. I'm strongly leaning towards just keeping it in.
Cryptic is too slow, 4 cmc for a counter is too much and the other modes aren't relevant enough here.
I agree that I don't like research in the 3 cmc slot because all of the other ones (like forbidden alchemy) are just so much better but I think it's a better option than sign in blood
As far as shadow of a doubt being only a minor setback, keep in mind that my group uses maximum fetch lands and often in response to tutors or whatever. We run literally ever tutor possible (2/6 of us have the imperial seals too) so shadow of doubt would hit a lot and cantrips as well. Getting the land destruction or counter with a draw seems great. I wouldn't play it in a group without a ton of fetches or tutors but when it hits it's great.
I've seem it used on a boundless realms...it was beautiful.
Then again boundless realms sucks so it was mostly for humor
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake