Woohah - I've been interested in a Glissa Commander build for a while and read through your excellent Primer.
There's a couple artifact cards that I've been tempted to possibly use in my own Glissa build - Icy Manipulator and Pilgrim's Eye. The Manipulator is an oldie and even though it's value has diminished throughout the years w/ the introduction of variants like Tumble Magnet, I'm wondering if it can shine here. I know a Glissa Commander deck isn't exactly a controling deck, but the Manipulator does tap an opposing creature down while Glissa beats face and possibly taps down opposing artifact token destruction like Ratchet Bomb or Nevinyrral's Disk.
On the Eye, my thoughts were recurring chump bait and mana filtering. Outside of Wrath-like effects such as our own Disk, Plague Wind and minimal spot removal like Putrefy, there isn't a way to deal w/ opposing flying threats. The Eye serves as a chump to opposing Angels & Dragons while also grabbing a land and filtering our deck to improve the chances of topdecking a good late-game card. Again, not sure what exactly to take out; perhaps this could be a mini Solemn Simulacrum 2.0 w/o the card draw.
Just curious on your (or anyone else's) thoughts on these.
Just pointing out, you put down "Nezumi Graverobber - Getting this guy out early and pulling his trigger on an empty graveyard is pretty easy. Then, his flipside lets us start getting nice things from our opponents (*cough*Eternal Witness*cough*) and when they die, we just get them again!" in the creature cards choice but you cant target an empty graveyard with his ability. It seems tricky and there no ruling listed and they worded it awfully but since there no line break between the 2 parts of the ability its 1 ability and the first pat has to happen before you can flip him.
You might also running mind crank and Bloodchief Ascension in multi-player its cranks up fast then just insta kill someone when you ping them, or sac a creature like moriok replica with grave pact out and insta-kill everyone.
Woohah - I've been interested in a Glissa Commander build for a while and read through your excellent Primer.
There's a couple artifact cards that I've been tempted to possibly use in my own Glissa build - Icy Manipulator and Pilgrim's Eye. The Manipulator is an oldie and even though it's value has diminished throughout the years w/ the introduction of variants like Tumble Magnet, I'm wondering if it can shine here. I know a Glissa Commander deck isn't exactly a controling deck, but the Manipulator does tap an opposing creature down while Glissa beats face and possibly taps down opposing artifact token destruction like Ratchet Bomb or Nevinyrral's Disk.
On the Eye, my thoughts were recurring chump bait and mana filtering. Outside of Wrath-like effects such as our own Disk, Plague Wind and minimal spot removal like Putrefy, there isn't a way to deal w/ opposing flying threats. The Eye serves as a chump to opposing Angels & Dragons while also grabbing a land and filtering our deck to improve the chances of topdecking a good late-game card. Again, not sure what exactly to take out; perhaps this could be a mini Solemn Simulacrum 2.0 w/o the card draw.
Just curious on your (or anyone else's) thoughts on these.
Icy Manipulator...hmmm...not a bad idea, but the only issue is that with a Nev's disk, they can just respond to your tapping, by tapping the disk and letting it go off. It's good for ganking Ratchet Bomb or dudes though. Pilgrim's Eye is interesting for a budget option. I may consider adding one myself.
Just pointing out, you put down "Nezumi Graverobber - Getting this guy out early and pulling his trigger on an empty graveyard is pretty easy. Then, his flipside lets us start getting nice things from our opponents (*cough*Eternal Witness*cough*) and when they die, we just get them again!" in the creature cards choice but you cant target an empty graveyard with his ability. It seems tricky and there no ruling listed and they worded it awfully but since there no line break between the 2 parts of the ability its 1 ability and the first pat has to happen before you can flip him.
The wording here was bad, I meant near empty graveyard. There isn't a line break in the ruling, meaning the second ability follows the first, which can't resolve without a target. Generally, when you get Nezumi Graverobber out, it's either early enough to nuke one card and flip, or it comes down a turn or two after someone Bojuka Bog'd someone's yard.
Managed to trade for a Phyrexian Obliterator. Good thing they're in standard and easier to find.
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Have you considered Forbidden Orchard? It forces an opponent to have a creature which Viridian Longbow and Thornbite Staff can auto kill for artifact recursion. It also is a good way to color-fix. I really like it in my build.
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EDH
"The Six"
Patron of the Moon
Ghoulcaller Gisa
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Karametra, God of Harvests
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Have you considered Forbidden Orchard? It forces an opponent to have a creature which Viridian Longbow and Thornbite Staff can auto kill for artifact recursion. It also is a good way to color-fix. I really like it in my build.
I'd love to get a copy, except that I can't find a damn copy of it anywhere, just like Duplicant.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Updated for Dark Ascension! Check considered cards for the new stuff to add.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
What about tooth and nail / new mikaeous / triskelion
Or Leyline/helm combo. You're deck should really have one or two instant win buttons
I've been running Glissa as my main EDH deck for a while now and I feel that her optimal build maximizes artifacts and minimizes anything else that isn't necessary to her central strategy. Mikaeus and Tooth and Nail, while generally good cards, do not fit into Glissa as anything but combo pieces. I agree, combos are useful to have, but not at the expense of the overall build. I include the Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience combo in my deck because the Helm works in synergy with Glissa even without Leyline of the Void.
I've been running Glissa as my main EDH deck for a while now and I feel that her optimal build maximizes artifacts and minimizes anything else that isn't necessary to her central strategy. Mikaeus and Tooth and Nail, while generally good cards, do not fit into Glissa as anything but combo pieces. I agree, combos are useful to have, but not at the expense of the overall build. I include the Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience combo in my deck because the Helm works in synergy with Glissa even without Leyline of the Void.
With wraths running rampant in the format, Mike isn't so much a combo piece for me, as he is wrath protection. Getting all the artifacts back is nice, but keeping a full, increased board is worth the slot he takes. I will take the Helm into consideration though. I haven't decided about T&N yet, due to the fact that it's flat out good. I don't like combos myself unless they're hella useful or they recur artifacts (a good example being Thornbite Staff and Glissa.) I'm not a fan of the Black Leyline, due to the fact that it's a dead draw in a majority of situations, and I don't feel the one combo it gets is worth it. Besides, with the popularity of T&N, Bribery, and the other myriad tutors, you'd rarely hit anything good with the Helm.
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I seriously appreciate it. I'm currently planning on adding in Green Sun's Zenith, but I haven't decided what's getting the axe. Maybe Fangren Marauder?
Also, I have some pretty awesome news. Thanks to a random pack yielding a Huntmaster of The Fells, and Seachrome Coast (trade your Scars lands now! They're gonna dive when they rotate out!) taking a serious price spike, I now have a Volrath's Stronghold and Overgrown Tomb on the way! Also, I managed to cobble together some crap from my binder and trade for a Nirkana Revenant, which should help the mana reserves. Next stop, trying for Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth.
"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Thanks to that trade, I've also got an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on it's way here. I'll cut a swamp for it.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
The only other card I need for this deck from the new set is the awesome Soul of the Harvest, which will probably replace Wild Pair. I'm hoping the upgrades allow the deck to draw cards at an increased pace, allowing it to keep up with U/X decks.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
I did a diff between my deck and yours, and here's the important stuff:
-I'm curious why you said "if you like control" as a reason NOT to play glissa. I love control more than is legally allowed in some states, and i loooove glissa. she's a crazy CA-generating machine and big ol' rattlesnake - exactly what a control deck wants.
-skittles is awesome in this deck, especially with equipments. comes out of nowhere for a win.
-sorin markov is sort of a wincon. and hey, the pinging and lifegaining is pretty useful too for triggering glissa.
-instant-speed removal in general is mostly missing from the deck. Trading 1-for-1 is no downside when it's recurring an artifact from your grave, and it nails a lot of combo decks and works as a deterrent against all sorts of hate. I mean, the really good stuff like tragic slip and dismember seems like a no-brainer.
-liliana of the veil is all sorts of fun. pitch an artifact? who cares, I'll just recur it. sac a creature? great, I can recur an artifact. for 3 mana, seems like a deal.
-stinkweed imp mills your grave, kills stuff, rattlesnakes, etc.
-damnation is a pretty easy inclusion. better than decree imo, since you're already getting stupid card advantage with glissa, I'd rather have the low cost.
-fleshbag marauder is a massive trigger, plus easily recurrable.
-there's tons of great CA-generating artifacts, like mishra's bauble and such that are all sorts of snazzy with glissa's recursion. You don't need a 6-mana removal target like harvester of souls when your general can do the same thing for cheaper and more more reliably.
-krosan grip makes combo decks suck it. as does sudden death.
-scrabbling claws and phyrexian furnace are additional grave hate with CA stapled on.
-conjurer's bauble puts your non-recurrable stuff back into your deck to improve its consistency, and again CA with glissa.
-expedition map is just stupid, especially if you're going with a coffers package. glissa just keeps recurring it, you'd have to be trying hard to not get all your powerful utility lands.
-necrogen spellbomb is a lockdown in the right situation in 1v1, plus it's another CA-generator.
-nim deathmantle gets dudes through, protects creatures from the instant they hit the field (greaves fails vs instant-speed removal, and wipes).
-life from the loam is fantastic with cycling lands, strip mine, and fetch lands, and protects your coffers and urborg.
-entomb puts any artifact within reach for 1 mana at instant speed. or lftl or lands with lftl.
-vampiric tutor is equal to demonic imo.
-insidious dreams is a cool budget tutor, sets up combos and pitching artifacts doesn't really matter much.
-mana crypt is a card.
-bayou is a card.
-you mention strip mine but it's not actually in your list even though it's strictly better than edge. And it's like $4, so it's not really "out of budget".
-as mentioned, forbidden orchard is INSANE for triggering glissa. I would say without exaggeration that it's probably the best land in the deck.
-inkmoth nexus wins with the right equipment.
-phyrexian tower and high market protect against tuck and exile stuff.
-there's 4 other fetches you didn't mention, and they all hit bayou and tomb so they're all worth running, even aside from the whole lftl/crucible angle.
-bonehoard is huge, recurrable, and gets on glissa or an infector to win in a big hurry.
I'm guessing a big part of why you didn't include a lot of these is because they're outside your budget or you don't happen to have them, but if you're writing a primer you should give an unbiased view of the deck. You can always proxy them for a while to determine their strength.
frankly, if you're making a primer, you'd be better served by having your personal decklist be an "example decklist" imo, and listing out the reasoning of more than just the 100 cards you specifically run. Otherwise you're basically telling people to build only your exact decklist, instead of giving them an overview of glissa decks as a whole.
I did a diff between my deck and yours, and here's the important stuff:
-I'm curious why you said "if you like control" as a reason NOT to play glissa. I love control more than is legally allowed in some states, and i loooove glissa. she's a crazy CA-generating machine and big ol' rattlesnake - exactly what a control deck wants.
-skittles is awesome in this deck, especially with equipments. comes out of nowhere for a win.
-sorin markov is sort of a wincon. and hey, the pinging and lifegaining is pretty useful too for triggering glissa.
-instant-speed removal in general is mostly missing from the deck. Trading 1-for-1 is no downside when it's recurring an artifact from your grave, and it nails a lot of combo decks and works as a deterrent against all sorts of hate. I mean, the really good stuff like tragic slip and dismember seems like a no-brainer.
-liliana of the veil is all sorts of fun. pitch an artifact? who cares, I'll just recur it. sac a creature? great, I can recur an artifact. for 3 mana, seems like a deal.
-stinkweed imp mills your grave, kills stuff, rattlesnakes, etc.
-damnation is a pretty easy inclusion. better than decree imo, since you're already getting stupid card advantage with glissa, I'd rather have the low cost.
-fleshbag marauder is a massive trigger, plus easily recurrable.
-there's tons of great CA-generating artifacts, like mishra's bauble and such that are all sorts of snazzy with glissa's recursion. You don't need a 6-mana removal target like harvester of souls when your general can do the same thing for cheaper and more more reliably.
-krosan grip makes combo decks suck it. as does sudden death.
-scrabbling claws and phyrexian furnace are additional grave hate with CA stapled on.
-conjurer's bauble puts your non-recurrable stuff back into your deck to improve its consistency, and again CA with glissa.
-expedition map is just stupid, especially if you're going with a coffers package. glissa just keeps recurring it, you'd have to be trying hard to not get all your powerful utility lands.
-necrogen spellbomb is a lockdown in the right situation in 1v1, plus it's another CA-generator.
-nim deathmantle gets dudes through, protects creatures from the instant they hit the field (greaves fails vs instant-speed removal, and wipes).
-life from the loam is fantastic with cycling lands, strip mine, and fetch lands, and protects your coffers and urborg.
-entomb puts any artifact within reach for 1 mana at instant speed. or lftl or lands with lftl.
-vampiric tutor is equal to demonic imo.
-insidious dreams is a cool budget tutor, sets up combos and pitching artifacts doesn't really matter much.
-mana crypt is a card.
-bayou is a card.
-you mention strip mine but it's not actually in your list even though it's strictly better than edge. And it's like $4, so it's not really "out of budget".
-as mentioned, forbidden orchard is INSANE for triggering glissa. I would say without exaggeration that it's probably the best land in the deck.
-inkmoth nexus wins with the right equipment.
-phyrexian tower and high market protect against tuck and exile stuff.
-there's 4 other fetches you didn't mention, and they all hit bayou and tomb so they're all worth running, even aside from the whole lftl/crucible angle.
-bonehoard is huge, recurrable, and gets on glissa or an infector to win in a big hurry.
I'm guessing a big part of why you didn't include a lot of these is because they're outside your budget or you don't happen to have them, but if you're writing a primer you should give an unbiased view of the deck. You can always proxy them for a while to determine their strength.
frankly, if you're making a primer, you'd be better served by having your personal decklist be an "example decklist" imo, and listing out the reasoning of more than just the 100 cards you specifically run. Otherwise you're basically telling people to build only your exact decklist, instead of giving them an overview of glissa decks as a whole.
Pure control decks differ in that they tend to stall out the game. This is a bit more like Midrange, where the idea using artifacts to manage the board meets with ramping mana and CA to cast a big Genesis Wave or some other thing.
Mishra's Bauble is cheap, I will admit. Still, I don't think it's worth the slot, because the draw occurs on the next upkeep, and it can very easily be a dead draw.
Sorin Markov infuriates players. This deck can't play archenemy very well.
Stinkweed Imp is alright, but this isn't designed to dredge. In terms of removal, removal slots should almost always be dedicated to flexibility. Thus, Maelstrom Pulse and Putrefy I feel, deserve slots over Tragic Slip and Putrefy.
I've been wanting to put Liliana of the Veil in, but I don't know what I would cut for her. Same for Krosan Grip.
Conjurer's Bauble tucks a card, which is alright. Furnace and Scrabbling Claws are grave hate, but they only get one card at a time. Nihil gets them all and still draws for 1B.
In Multiplayer (which this is designed to be) single shot discard tends to be pretty terrible. Necrogen Spellbomb just isn't worth it.
People tend to hate Skittles and his infectious ilk because they end the game too quickly. This deck isn't competitive, but it's just fun to play.
Mana Crypt doesn't work in this deck because you would play it primarily to ramp into your general. Glissa has no colorless mana in her cost.
Strip Mine, Forbidden Orchard, and Diabolic Intent are pretty rare, and I can't find any of them.
Vampiric Tutor, Entomb, and the fetches are expensive. I will add this one to the Considered List though.
Bonehoard is equipment that's a strict P/T boost. These are almost never worth the slot, and I'd prefer the slot be taken by a Sword of F&F.
Damnation is a fine wrath, but that's all it does. Good wraths need to either serve some purpose in the deck (It comes with the bury effect, so Ezuri can't regenerate Glissa) or have flexibility or some advantage stapled on to them.
Finally, it's my firm belief that a Primer should focus on one decktype rather than cover everything. Write what you know, you know? In a relevant example, I don't know crap about Dredge as a strategy, or how it plays out. That's why Virtus's list is awesome, because he can make it work for Glissa. There's no way I'd be able to talk about it and give it justice.
I appreciate your comments.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Well, you've labeled your primer "glissa, the traitor recur primer" (which is a bit misleading since it really doesn't exploit that much recursion but w/e) so you're sort of committing yourself to talking about everything that falls within the purview of glissa-based recursion decks, which is a pretty broad topic. Maybe try coming up with a more specific name for your deck, so it doesn't sound like you're trying to give an overview of all glissa-based recursion. I know YOUR deck isn't especially focused on control, but glissa-based recursion decks can be GREAT at control. So when your primer is about glissa the traitor and recursion, I'd expect the variants to receive some sort of acknowledgement. So yeah, I'd make the title more specific. anyway playing control in no way prevents you from winning with bombs like genesis wave.
at worst, mishra's bauble delays your draw 1 turn with a minor side effect. At best, it draws you dozens of cards for absolutely free. it's worth a slot.
regardless of your meta, sorin is a strong card. he doesn't infuriate people I play against, so I run him. He's at least worth a mention, other people's metas might not be so reactionary.
if you're playing a RECUR archetype, then dredge is exactly the sort of thing you ought to like. if you don't think dredge will help your deck, you're probably not really playing a recursion-based deck.
necrogen spellbomb doesn't get used for discard up until the last few turns of the game. It gets used for draw mostly. but at the end, if you've got a forbidden orchard out, you can lock people down for a very long time by forcing them to discard immediately after drawing. it's situational, but it's a fine card anyway. the possibility for it to win you the game is gravy.
nihil is a great card, no disrepect for it. but redundancy never hurt when it comes to grave hate.
with ALL of these cheap artifacts, the point is that they synergize with glissa to create an insane CA-generating machine. the extra effects are just gravy.
skittle - see sorin.
mana crypt - she's a general who loves artifacts and you can't use colorless mana? so then why are you running sol ring? also, general tax.
strip mine, orchard, etc - ebay. go to there.
bonehoard - there's a difference between leonin scimitar and a card that gives +25/+25. this sucker takes folks out of the game FAST.
damnation - it DOES have advantage stapled on it. it says "recur an artifact for each creature your opponents control".
Well, you've labeled your primer "glissa, the traitor recur primer" (which is a bit misleading since it really doesn't exploit that much recursion but w/e) so you're sort of committing yourself to talking about everything that falls within the purview of glissa-based recursion decks, which is a pretty broad topic. Maybe try coming up with a more specific name for your deck, so it doesn't sound like you're trying to give an overview of all glissa-based recursion. I know YOUR deck isn't especially focused on control, but glissa-based recursion decks can be GREAT at control. So when your primer is about glissa the traitor and recursion, I'd expect the variants to receive some sort of acknowledgement. So yeah, I'd make the title more specific. anyway playing control in no way prevents you from winning with bombs like genesis wave.
at worst, mishra's bauble delays your draw 1 turn with a minor side effect. At best, it draws you dozens of cards for absolutely free. it's worth a slot.
regardless of your meta, sorin is a strong card. he doesn't infuriate people I play against, so I run him. He's at least worth a mention, other people's metas might not be so reactionary.
if you're playing a RECUR archetype, then dredge is exactly the sort of thing you ought to like. if you don't think dredge will help your deck, you're probably not really playing a recursion-based deck.
necrogen spellbomb doesn't get used for discard up until the last few turns of the game. It gets used for draw mostly. but at the end, if you've got a forbidden orchard out, you can lock people down for a very long time by forcing them to discard immediately after drawing. it's situational, but it's a fine card anyway. the possibility for it to win you the game is gravy.
nihil is a great card, no disrepect for it. but redundancy never hurt when it comes to grave hate.
with ALL of these cheap artifacts, the point is that they synergize with glissa to create an insane CA-generating machine. the extra effects are just gravy.
skittle - see sorin.
mana crypt - she's a general who loves artifacts and you can't use colorless mana? so then why are you running sol ring? also, general tax.
strip mine, orchard, etc - ebay. go to there.
bonehoard - there's a difference between leonin scimitar and a card that gives +25/+25. this sucker takes folks out of the game FAST.
damnation - it DOES have advantage stapled on it. it says "recur an artifact for each creature your opponents control".
I will concede that the title is a little broad. I plan on cleaning this up a little once I get through finals, and that's one of the things I planned on doing.
My meta (and, from what I see on MTGS a lot of metas) despise the likes of Sorin and his buddy Magister Sphinx. I'm not saying he isn't a terrific card, but it's like kicking the hornet's nest.
Damnation is a fine wrath spell, but the deck's already got plenty of them (between O-Stone, Disk, Plague Wind, and Decree.) If I was gonna add in a new one, it would probably be BSZ over Damnation. (This deck has issues with Darksteel Plate'd creatures)
Dredge indeed helps with a recursion deck, and I'm going to start using a bit of it (the applications of Buried Alive and Entomb went completely over my head in terms of this deck.) I don't think I'll invest in it too heavily, since it requires a lot of special cards to work. I am going to be mulling over Golgari Thug at least.
Getting back to Bonehoard, it's not a bad option for Glissa decks in general. When so many things are competing for slots though, I just don't feel it's worth running.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
I will concede that the title is a little broad. I plan on cleaning this up a little once I get through finals, and that's one of the things I planned on doing.
My meta (and, from what I see on MTGS a lot of metas) despise the likes of Sorin and his buddy Magister Sphinx. I'm not saying he isn't a terrific card, but it's like kicking the hornet's nest.
Damnation is a fine wrath spell, but the deck's already got plenty of them (between O-Stone, Disk, Plague Wind, and Decree.) If I was gonna add in a new one, it would probably be BSZ over Damnation. (This deck has issues with Darksteel Plate'd creatures)
Dredge indeed helps with a recursion deck, and I'm going to start using a bit of it (the applications of Buried Alive and Entomb went completely over my head in terms of this deck.) I don't think I'll invest in it too heavily, since it requires a lot of special cards to work. I am going to be mulling over Golgari Thug at least.
Getting back to Bonehoard, it's not a bad option for Glissa decks in general. When so many things are competing for slots though, I just don't feel it's worth running.
well the thing damnation provides, compared to the other ones, is the low cost. O-stone costs 8 to set off, all told. disk is only 5 but takes at least 2 turns. plague wind and decree cost just tons of mana. damnation only costs 4. Also, disk and o-stone are great with glissa because of the recursion, but being able to repeatedly wipe the field while gaining CA at the same time...teeeends to make you a target. Similarly, getting tons of draw or keeping your own field intact can draw plenty of hate too. Damnation doesn't really draw hate, it just does its job and does it cheaply. BSZ costs just stupid amounts of mana to kill strong creatures (what exactly is your out vs ulamog and BSC?). Indestructibles aren't that common, but having a tragic slip starts to look a lot better when a big one comes along. and it costs 1 mana instead of, um, 13 to kill a BSC.
need room for bonehoard? cut...elvish champion. Actually I'd cut the whole elf tribal thing, you really don't have enough in the deck for it to be terribly worth it, and cards like champion just force you to overcommit to the field in a format with tons of wipes. So I'd cut all your elf tribal stuff and replace it with cheap, cantripping artifacts so you can abuse glissa more than not-at-all. I'd also avoid artifacts like dreamstone hedron - the draw seems great, but paying 9 for it is a lot less great. most eggs will cost you 0-1 to draw, and you can use them over and over and over.
well the thing damnation provides, compared to the other ones, is the low cost. O-stone costs 8 to set off, all told. disk is only 5 but takes at least 2 turns. plague wind and decree cost just tons of mana. damnation only costs 4. Also, disk and o-stone are great with glissa because of the recursion, but being able to repeatedly wipe the field while gaining CA at the same time...teeeends to make you a target. Similarly, getting tons of draw or keeping your own field intact can draw plenty of hate too. Damnation doesn't really draw hate, it just does its job and does it cheaply. BSZ costs just stupid amounts of mana to kill strong creatures (what exactly is your out vs ulamog and BSC?). Indestructibles aren't that common, but having a tragic slip starts to look a lot better when a big one comes along. and it costs 1 mana instead of, um, 13 to kill a BSC.
need room for bonehoard? cut...elvish champion. Actually I'd cut the whole elf tribal thing, you really don't have enough in the deck for it to be terribly worth it, and cards like champion just force you to overcommit to the field in a format with tons of wipes. So I'd cut all your elf tribal stuff and replace it with cheap, cantripping artifacts so you can abuse glissa more than not-at-all. I'd also avoid artifacts like dreamstone hedron - the draw seems great, but paying 9 for it is a lot less great. most eggs will cost you 0-1 to draw, and you can use them over and over and over.
BSZ has all the same political applications as Damnation. It's more mana, sure, but that also gives it a level of flexibility. What if the opponent is playing tokens? Pay four mana, and slightly nerf my guys and wipe their board? It's also worth noting that it shuffles back into the deck, allowing it to be reusable. I'll probably switch Imperious Perfect out for it.
I probably will end up cutting the champion as well. Wirewood Herald and Elvish Harbinger will probably stay in though, because they give anti-tuck protection to Glissa. Same goes to Elvish Archdruid, because of being a sweet mana dork.
The idea with O-stone and Disk is just the fact that when you need a wrath, you have one. I wouldn't go setting them off repeatedly. That's just in bad taste.
Tragic Slip is an alright creature removal spell, but again, that's all it does. I will put this into consideration though.
Private Mod Note
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
BSZ has all the same political applications as Damnation. It's more mana, sure, but that also gives it a level of flexibility. What if the opponent is playing tokens? Pay four mana, and slightly nerf my guys and wipe their board? It's also worth noting that it shuffles back into the deck, allowing it to be reusable. I'll probably switch Imperious Perfect out for it.
I probably will end up cutting the champion as well. Wirewood Herald and Elvish Harbinger will probably stay in though, because they give anti-tuck protection to Glissa. Same goes to Elvish Archdruid, because of being a sweet mana dork.
The idea with O-stone and Disk is just the fact that when you need a wrath, you have one. I wouldn't go setting them off repeatedly. That's just in bad taste.
Tragic Slip is an alright creature removal spell, but again, that's all it does. I will put this into consideration though.
I guess this is a difference between our decks, but mine has very few fatties, so the advantage of using a low cost BSZ is pretty low. Nevertheless, I'd still say damnation is better for your deck too, just because of the low cost. If they've got out a ptitan do you really want to merely nerf it? Because otherwise you need 8 mana. that's sort of a lot for a board-wipe, which is what I think you'd want BSZ to do most of the time.
entomb is way better anti-tuck than the herald, but I guess you're putting that in anyway. Still, looking at your decklist you don't seem that reliant on your general, is it really worth it?
Maybe this is just my opinion, but intentionally pulling your punches and NOT abusing the interaction with o-stone/disk with glissa would be insulting to me if I was playing against you. Sure, if you need a field position to win then it might not be in your best interests to keep setting it off, but as long as it's in your best interests, you should do it. Otherwise winning is meaningless and the game is boring.
and tragic slip is a GREAT creature removal spell. it's the black stp. dare I say, best black removal spell ever printed? I dare. I run a lot of removal in my deck because I like removal, but even if you're not as committed, having a 1-mana out to any creature is fantastic and I highly recommend it.
I guess this is a difference between our decks, but mine has very few fatties, so the advantage of using a low cost BSZ is pretty low. Nevertheless, I'd still say damnation is better for your deck too, just because of the low cost. If they've got out a ptitan do you really want to merely nerf it? Because otherwise you need 8 mana. that's sort of a lot for a board-wipe, which is what I think you'd want BSZ to do most of the time.
entomb is way better anti-tuck than the herald, but I guess you're putting that in anyway. Still, looking at your decklist you don't seem that reliant on your general, is it really worth it?
Maybe this is just my opinion, but intentionally pulling your punches and NOT abusing the interaction with o-stone/disk with glissa would be insulting to me if I was playing against you. Sure, if you need a field position to win then it might not be in your best interests to keep setting it off, but as long as it's in your best interests, you should do it. Otherwise winning is meaningless and the game is boring.
and tragic slip is a GREAT creature removal spell. it's the black stp. dare I say, best black removal spell ever printed? I dare. I run a lot of removal in my deck because I like removal, but even if you're not as committed, having a 1-mana out to any creature is fantastic and I highly recommend it.
This deck is entirely reliant on the general, since we can't use the main recursion engine without her. Certain pieces require her to be useful, such as Thornbite Staff. Plus, it sucks to get tucked, and BG gets none of it.
I never intend to pull punches, and if I need to wrath the board to win/survive, I will. It's just that nuking the board repeatedly for no reason keeps the deck from building any kind of a field presence. Not to mention, pissing the table off.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
This deck is entirely reliant on the general, since we can't use the main recursion engine without her. Certain pieces require her to be useful, such as Thornbite Staff. Plus, it sucks to get tucked, and BG gets none of it.
I guess what I mean is, there's not a ton of stuff that's really set up to exploit her. For my deck, I've got 17 artifacts that are basically garbage without her, most of my 26 removal spells wouldn't be included if I couldn't use her to get me CA off of them, and voltronning with her is a way I often win, so she's behind almost all the cards in my deck, and absolutely crucial. You've got a few artifacts that synergize nicely with her, but mine is definitely a lot more general-focused.
I don't run herald either, though, because it's a bad tutor. For one thing, it's a lot less useful if she hasn't been tucked. For a second thing, it'll probably be really hard to get it killed without a sac outlet if everyone is determined to not let you get your general back.
Although whilst we're talking about it, some sac outlets would really help prevent glissa from getting tucked in the first place - phyrexian tower and high market being your best bets.
I made a Glissa deck, but it really is a Hybrid of Glissa and Mikaeus and is full of random interactions (makes Mindless Automaton look good when Mikaeus is out).
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I am looking for Date Stamped promos from Khans of Tarkir block so I can finish my set. Check my wants if you have any.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
There's a couple artifact cards that I've been tempted to possibly use in my own Glissa build - Icy Manipulator and Pilgrim's Eye. The Manipulator is an oldie and even though it's value has diminished throughout the years w/ the introduction of variants like Tumble Magnet, I'm wondering if it can shine here. I know a Glissa Commander deck isn't exactly a controling deck, but the Manipulator does tap an opposing creature down while Glissa beats face and possibly taps down opposing artifact token destruction like Ratchet Bomb or Nevinyrral's Disk.
On the Eye, my thoughts were recurring chump bait and mana filtering. Outside of Wrath-like effects such as our own Disk, Plague Wind and minimal spot removal like Putrefy, there isn't a way to deal w/ opposing flying threats. The Eye serves as a chump to opposing Angels & Dragons while also grabbing a land and filtering our deck to improve the chances of topdecking a good late-game card. Again, not sure what exactly to take out; perhaps this could be a mini Solemn Simulacrum 2.0 w/o the card draw.
Just curious on your (or anyone else's) thoughts on these.
on playing dos rakis
on playing dos rakis
Icy Manipulator...hmmm...not a bad idea, but the only issue is that with a Nev's disk, they can just respond to your tapping, by tapping the disk and letting it go off. It's good for ganking Ratchet Bomb or dudes though. Pilgrim's Eye is interesting for a budget option. I may consider adding one myself.
The wording here was bad, I meant near empty graveyard. There isn't a line break in the ruling, meaning the second ability follows the first, which can't resolve without a target. Generally, when you get Nezumi Graverobber out, it's either early enough to nuke one card and flip, or it comes down a turn or two after someone Bojuka Bog'd someone's yard.
Managed to trade for a Phyrexian Obliterator. Good thing they're in standard and easier to find.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
"The Six"
Patron of the Moon
Ghoulcaller Gisa
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Karametra, God of Harvests
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
Vorel of the Hull Clade
I'd love to get a copy, except that I can't find a damn copy of it anywhere, just like Duplicant.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
Or Leyline/helm combo. You're deck should really have one or two instant win buttons
I've been running Glissa as my main EDH deck for a while now and I feel that her optimal build maximizes artifacts and minimizes anything else that isn't necessary to her central strategy. Mikaeus and Tooth and Nail, while generally good cards, do not fit into Glissa as anything but combo pieces. I agree, combos are useful to have, but not at the expense of the overall build. I include the Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience combo in my deck because the Helm works in synergy with Glissa even without Leyline of the Void.
Altered Art Cards! | Commissions currently Closed
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
With wraths running rampant in the format, Mike isn't so much a combo piece for me, as he is wrath protection. Getting all the artifacts back is nice, but keeping a full, increased board is worth the slot he takes. I will take the Helm into consideration though. I haven't decided about T&N yet, due to the fact that it's flat out good. I don't like combos myself unless they're hella useful or they recur artifacts (a good example being Thornbite Staff and Glissa.) I'm not a fan of the Black Leyline, due to the fact that it's a dead draw in a majority of situations, and I don't feel the one combo it gets is worth it. Besides, with the popularity of T&N, Bribery, and the other myriad tutors, you'd rarely hit anything good with the Helm.
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I seriously appreciate it. I'm currently planning on adding in Green Sun's Zenith, but I haven't decided what's getting the axe. Maybe Fangren Marauder?
Also, I have some pretty awesome news. Thanks to a random pack yielding a Huntmaster of The Fells, and Seachrome Coast (trade your Scars lands now! They're gonna dive when they rotate out!) taking a serious price spike, I now have a Volrath's Stronghold and Overgrown Tomb on the way! Also, I managed to cobble together some crap from my binder and trade for a Nirkana Revenant, which should help the mana reserves. Next stop, trying for Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth.
Probable Cuts:
Bellowing Tanglewurm
Fangren Marauder
Forest
Swamp
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
Prismatic Omen (Strictly better than Blanket of Night)
Sol Ring (The previous takes care of colored mana concerns, thus making this better than Darksteel Ingot)
Oblivion Stone (I hear wraths are good. Especially ones you can recur. Replaces the less-than-superior Champion's Helm.)
Thanks to that trade, I've also got an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on it's way here. I'll cut a swamp for it.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
replacing
The only other card I need for this deck from the new set is the awesome Soul of the Harvest, which will probably replace Wild Pair. I'm hoping the upgrades allow the deck to draw cards at an increased pace, allowing it to keep up with U/X decks.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
-I'm curious why you said "if you like control" as a reason NOT to play glissa. I love control more than is legally allowed in some states, and i loooove glissa. she's a crazy CA-generating machine and big ol' rattlesnake - exactly what a control deck wants.
-skittles is awesome in this deck, especially with equipments. comes out of nowhere for a win.
-sorin markov is sort of a wincon. and hey, the pinging and lifegaining is pretty useful too for triggering glissa.
-instant-speed removal in general is mostly missing from the deck. Trading 1-for-1 is no downside when it's recurring an artifact from your grave, and it nails a lot of combo decks and works as a deterrent against all sorts of hate. I mean, the really good stuff like tragic slip and dismember seems like a no-brainer.
-liliana of the veil is all sorts of fun. pitch an artifact? who cares, I'll just recur it. sac a creature? great, I can recur an artifact. for 3 mana, seems like a deal.
-stinkweed imp mills your grave, kills stuff, rattlesnakes, etc.
-damnation is a pretty easy inclusion. better than decree imo, since you're already getting stupid card advantage with glissa, I'd rather have the low cost.
-fleshbag marauder is a massive trigger, plus easily recurrable.
-there's tons of great CA-generating artifacts, like mishra's bauble and such that are all sorts of snazzy with glissa's recursion. You don't need a 6-mana removal target like harvester of souls when your general can do the same thing for cheaper and more more reliably.
-krosan grip makes combo decks suck it. as does sudden death.
-scrabbling claws and phyrexian furnace are additional grave hate with CA stapled on.
-conjurer's bauble puts your non-recurrable stuff back into your deck to improve its consistency, and again CA with glissa.
-expedition map is just stupid, especially if you're going with a coffers package. glissa just keeps recurring it, you'd have to be trying hard to not get all your powerful utility lands.
-necrogen spellbomb is a lockdown in the right situation in 1v1, plus it's another CA-generator.
-nim deathmantle gets dudes through, protects creatures from the instant they hit the field (greaves fails vs instant-speed removal, and wipes).
-life from the loam is fantastic with cycling lands, strip mine, and fetch lands, and protects your coffers and urborg.
-entomb puts any artifact within reach for 1 mana at instant speed. or lftl or lands with lftl.
-vampiric tutor is equal to demonic imo.
-insidious dreams is a cool budget tutor, sets up combos and pitching artifacts doesn't really matter much.
-mana crypt is a card.
-bayou is a card.
-you mention strip mine but it's not actually in your list even though it's strictly better than edge. And it's like $4, so it's not really "out of budget".
-as mentioned, forbidden orchard is INSANE for triggering glissa. I would say without exaggeration that it's probably the best land in the deck.
-inkmoth nexus wins with the right equipment.
-phyrexian tower and high market protect against tuck and exile stuff.
-there's 4 other fetches you didn't mention, and they all hit bayou and tomb so they're all worth running, even aside from the whole lftl/crucible angle.
-bonehoard is huge, recurrable, and gets on glissa or an infector to win in a big hurry.
I'm guessing a big part of why you didn't include a lot of these is because they're outside your budget or you don't happen to have them, but if you're writing a primer you should give an unbiased view of the deck. You can always proxy them for a while to determine their strength.
frankly, if you're making a primer, you'd be better served by having your personal decklist be an "example decklist" imo, and listing out the reasoning of more than just the 100 cards you specifically run. Otherwise you're basically telling people to build only your exact decklist, instead of giving them an overview of glissa decks as a whole.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Pure control decks differ in that they tend to stall out the game. This is a bit more like Midrange, where the idea using artifacts to manage the board meets with ramping mana and CA to cast a big Genesis Wave or some other thing.
Mishra's Bauble is cheap, I will admit. Still, I don't think it's worth the slot, because the draw occurs on the next upkeep, and it can very easily be a dead draw.
Sorin Markov infuriates players. This deck can't play archenemy very well.
Stinkweed Imp is alright, but this isn't designed to dredge. In terms of removal, removal slots should almost always be dedicated to flexibility. Thus, Maelstrom Pulse and Putrefy I feel, deserve slots over Tragic Slip and Putrefy.
I've been wanting to put Liliana of the Veil in, but I don't know what I would cut for her. Same for Krosan Grip.
Conjurer's Bauble tucks a card, which is alright. Furnace and Scrabbling Claws are grave hate, but they only get one card at a time. Nihil gets them all and still draws for 1B.
In Multiplayer (which this is designed to be) single shot discard tends to be pretty terrible. Necrogen Spellbomb just isn't worth it.
People tend to hate Skittles and his infectious ilk because they end the game too quickly. This deck isn't competitive, but it's just fun to play.
Mana Crypt doesn't work in this deck because you would play it primarily to ramp into your general. Glissa has no colorless mana in her cost.
Strip Mine, Forbidden Orchard, and Diabolic Intent are pretty rare, and I can't find any of them.
Vampiric Tutor, Entomb, and the fetches are expensive. I will add this one to the Considered List though.
Bonehoard is equipment that's a strict P/T boost. These are almost never worth the slot, and I'd prefer the slot be taken by a Sword of F&F.
Damnation is a fine wrath, but that's all it does. Good wraths need to either serve some purpose in the deck (It comes with the bury effect, so Ezuri can't regenerate Glissa) or have flexibility or some advantage stapled on to them.
Finally, it's my firm belief that a Primer should focus on one decktype rather than cover everything. Write what you know, you know? In a relevant example, I don't know crap about Dredge as a strategy, or how it plays out. That's why Virtus's list is awesome, because he can make it work for Glissa. There's no way I'd be able to talk about it and give it justice.
I appreciate your comments.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
at worst, mishra's bauble delays your draw 1 turn with a minor side effect. At best, it draws you dozens of cards for absolutely free. it's worth a slot.
regardless of your meta, sorin is a strong card. he doesn't infuriate people I play against, so I run him. He's at least worth a mention, other people's metas might not be so reactionary.
if you're playing a RECUR archetype, then dredge is exactly the sort of thing you ought to like. if you don't think dredge will help your deck, you're probably not really playing a recursion-based deck.
necrogen spellbomb doesn't get used for discard up until the last few turns of the game. It gets used for draw mostly. but at the end, if you've got a forbidden orchard out, you can lock people down for a very long time by forcing them to discard immediately after drawing. it's situational, but it's a fine card anyway. the possibility for it to win you the game is gravy.
nihil is a great card, no disrepect for it. but redundancy never hurt when it comes to grave hate.
with ALL of these cheap artifacts, the point is that they synergize with glissa to create an insane CA-generating machine. the extra effects are just gravy.
skittle - see sorin.
mana crypt - she's a general who loves artifacts and you can't use colorless mana? so then why are you running sol ring? also, general tax.
strip mine, orchard, etc - ebay. go to there.
bonehoard - there's a difference between leonin scimitar and a card that gives +25/+25. this sucker takes folks out of the game FAST.
damnation - it DOES have advantage stapled on it. it says "recur an artifact for each creature your opponents control".
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I will concede that the title is a little broad. I plan on cleaning this up a little once I get through finals, and that's one of the things I planned on doing.
My meta (and, from what I see on MTGS a lot of metas) despise the likes of Sorin and his buddy Magister Sphinx. I'm not saying he isn't a terrific card, but it's like kicking the hornet's nest.
Damnation is a fine wrath spell, but the deck's already got plenty of them (between O-Stone, Disk, Plague Wind, and Decree.) If I was gonna add in a new one, it would probably be BSZ over Damnation. (This deck has issues with Darksteel Plate'd creatures)
Dredge indeed helps with a recursion deck, and I'm going to start using a bit of it (the applications of Buried Alive and Entomb went completely over my head in terms of this deck.) I don't think I'll invest in it too heavily, since it requires a lot of special cards to work. I am going to be mulling over Golgari Thug at least.
Getting back to Bonehoard, it's not a bad option for Glissa decks in general. When so many things are competing for slots though, I just don't feel it's worth running.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I've been mulling over this one for a while. Cards that will probably get switched:
Viridian Longbow - Kamahl.
Triangle of War - Ulvenwald Tracker
Urza's Bauble (I like it more compared to Mishra's version) - ???
Entomb - ???
Memory Jar - Hunter's Insight
Buried Alive - Dreamstone Hedron
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
well the thing damnation provides, compared to the other ones, is the low cost. O-stone costs 8 to set off, all told. disk is only 5 but takes at least 2 turns. plague wind and decree cost just tons of mana. damnation only costs 4. Also, disk and o-stone are great with glissa because of the recursion, but being able to repeatedly wipe the field while gaining CA at the same time...teeeends to make you a target. Similarly, getting tons of draw or keeping your own field intact can draw plenty of hate too. Damnation doesn't really draw hate, it just does its job and does it cheaply. BSZ costs just stupid amounts of mana to kill strong creatures (what exactly is your out vs ulamog and BSC?). Indestructibles aren't that common, but having a tragic slip starts to look a lot better when a big one comes along. and it costs 1 mana instead of, um, 13 to kill a BSC.
need room for bonehoard? cut...elvish champion. Actually I'd cut the whole elf tribal thing, you really don't have enough in the deck for it to be terribly worth it, and cards like champion just force you to overcommit to the field in a format with tons of wipes. So I'd cut all your elf tribal stuff and replace it with cheap, cantripping artifacts so you can abuse glissa more than not-at-all. I'd also avoid artifacts like dreamstone hedron - the draw seems great, but paying 9 for it is a lot less great. most eggs will cost you 0-1 to draw, and you can use them over and over and over.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
BSZ has all the same political applications as Damnation. It's more mana, sure, but that also gives it a level of flexibility. What if the opponent is playing tokens? Pay four mana, and slightly nerf my guys and wipe their board? It's also worth noting that it shuffles back into the deck, allowing it to be reusable. I'll probably switch Imperious Perfect out for it.
I probably will end up cutting the champion as well. Wirewood Herald and Elvish Harbinger will probably stay in though, because they give anti-tuck protection to Glissa. Same goes to Elvish Archdruid, because of being a sweet mana dork.
The idea with O-stone and Disk is just the fact that when you need a wrath, you have one. I wouldn't go setting them off repeatedly. That's just in bad taste.
Tragic Slip is an alright creature removal spell, but again, that's all it does. I will put this into consideration though.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
I guess this is a difference between our decks, but mine has very few fatties, so the advantage of using a low cost BSZ is pretty low. Nevertheless, I'd still say damnation is better for your deck too, just because of the low cost. If they've got out a ptitan do you really want to merely nerf it? Because otherwise you need 8 mana. that's sort of a lot for a board-wipe, which is what I think you'd want BSZ to do most of the time.
entomb is way better anti-tuck than the herald, but I guess you're putting that in anyway. Still, looking at your decklist you don't seem that reliant on your general, is it really worth it?
Maybe this is just my opinion, but intentionally pulling your punches and NOT abusing the interaction with o-stone/disk with glissa would be insulting to me if I was playing against you. Sure, if you need a field position to win then it might not be in your best interests to keep setting it off, but as long as it's in your best interests, you should do it. Otherwise winning is meaningless and the game is boring.
and tragic slip is a GREAT creature removal spell. it's the black stp. dare I say, best black removal spell ever printed? I dare. I run a lot of removal in my deck because I like removal, but even if you're not as committed, having a 1-mana out to any creature is fantastic and I highly recommend it.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
This deck is entirely reliant on the general, since we can't use the main recursion engine without her. Certain pieces require her to be useful, such as Thornbite Staff. Plus, it sucks to get tucked, and BG gets none of it.
I never intend to pull punches, and if I need to wrath the board to win/survive, I will. It's just that nuking the board repeatedly for no reason keeps the deck from building any kind of a field presence. Not to mention, pissing the table off.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
I guess what I mean is, there's not a ton of stuff that's really set up to exploit her. For my deck, I've got 17 artifacts that are basically garbage without her, most of my 26 removal spells wouldn't be included if I couldn't use her to get me CA off of them, and voltronning with her is a way I often win, so she's behind almost all the cards in my deck, and absolutely crucial. You've got a few artifacts that synergize nicely with her, but mine is definitely a lot more general-focused.
I don't run herald either, though, because it's a bad tutor. For one thing, it's a lot less useful if she hasn't been tucked. For a second thing, it'll probably be really hard to get it killed without a sac outlet if everyone is determined to not let you get your general back.
I'd replace it with a more flexible tutor, such as vampiric tutor, insidious dreams, beseech the queen, diabolic tutor, liliana vess, or dimir machinations. Those will all have solid utility at any part of the game, and be much more reliable ways to get back your general.
Although whilst we're talking about it, some sac outlets would really help prevent glissa from getting tucked in the first place - phyrexian tower and high market being your best bets.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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