6. Repeat step 5 for all remaining triggers except for the very last one. Each time, Yosei, the Morning Star will die and you will choose 5 permanents to tap, tap every permanent all your opponents have and they have to skip their untap step. When the last trigger resolves, Reveillark will come into play and trigger. Get back Mirror Entity & Saffi Ericksdotter. You can now repeat the combo for 0 mana at instant speed.
Excellent card. BTW Donald, your list and mine are very similar, so hope we can work closely to fine tune the details. I found a better card yet from M10 for the deck.
Acidic Slime.
Creeping Mold on a stick with Deathtouch, not to mention that it's one of the X-creatures with CiP to be abused with the infiLark engine in the deck. One-sided Armageddon+Fracturing Gust!
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I like designing decks and I am primarily a control player. Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
Excellent card. BTW Donald, your list and mine are very similar, so hope we can work closely to fine tune the details. I found a better card yet from M10 for the deck.
Acidic Slime.
Creeping Mold on a stick with Deathtouch, not to mention that it's one of the X-creatures with CiP to be abused with the infiLark engine in the deck. One-sided Armageddon+Fracturing Gust!
Looks excellent, should probably go in the slot being filled by Qasali Pridemage. I like that the Pridemage can sac himself but being able to hit lands and having deathtouch just put the Slime over the top.
This deck is also going to benefit with the removal of mana burn as Gaea's Cradle gets even more ridiculous.
I run both in my Rhys deck, along with a ton more artifact/enchantment removal, as my metagame is dominated by people playing SceptreChant, Zur, and Uril decks. I'm running my Rhys in a multiplayer tournament today, I talk about how it performed later tonight.
I run both in my Rhys deck, along with a ton more artifact/enchantment removal, as my metagame is dominated by people playing SceptreChant, Zur, and Uril decks. I'm running my Rhys in a multiplayer tournament today, I talk about how it performed later tonight.
How did the tournament go? Looks like I won't be able to play my deck until 4th of July weekend. You have a decklist to post?
I do, I do, just not the time to post it right now. I didn't win, but got close.
I had Mirari's Wake out, Doubling Season in my hand as well as a Path to Exile I was saving. Then I drew Ajani Goldmane. I smile, dropped Season, they dropped Ajani Goldmane and proceed to make two 42/42 Avatars. (I wasn't getting attacked a lot, plus I had Essence Warden out) We go around the table again, and the guy playing Zur happens to draw Mindslaver. He slavers me, and draws Neck Snap. He attacks with both, forgets that the player he is attacking has Mishra's Factory (as well as some other weenie), so he basically just gets chump blocked. He then proceeds to use my own removal pieces to kill my two avatars. I drew into a bunch of land, and was dead in about four turns from the Lizard tokens from a guy's predatory advantage.
:4mana::symw::symw: Sorcery Return all artifact and enchantment cards from all graveyards to the battlefield under their owners' control.
I'm running both Replenish and this in my deck. I've got a ton of powerful enchantments I think it's worth considering. And I've started work on my Ertai. I decided to make it unique i.e. not saccing creatures, but enchantments, and getting them back with Replenish, this card
I'll post my Ertai the Corrupted thread soon, meanwhile check out my Dagson thread when I'm done in the next hour writing it up.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like designing decks and I am primarily a control player. Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
:4mana::symw::symw: Sorcery Return all artifact and enchantment cards from all graveyards to the battlefield under their owners' control.
I'm running both Replenish and this in my deck. I've got a ton of powerful enchantments I think it's worth considering. And I've started work on my Ertai. I decided to make it unique i.e. not saccing creatures, but enchantments, and getting them back with Replenish, this card
I'll post my Ertai the Corrupted thread soon, meanwhile check out my Dagson thread when I'm done in the next hour writing it up.
Unfortunately Oblivion Stone is standard issue for virtually every deck in my group so I suspect that everything would just get blown up right after I cast this.
Pretty good upgrades. I may try to fit the Slime in without taking out Pridemage as I like to have an early source for artifact/enchantment destruction. But yep - Ant Queen is a great upgrade to the Guildmage. The +1/+1 effect is nice but twice the amount of tokens per turn is nicer.
@ Donald, you should consider taking out Eternal Dragon and Karmic Justice since they don't really DO anything. Add an Elvish Visionary and Squirrel Nest. Verdant Force sucks. Honestly, he might make you 2-3 tokens for your 7 mana investment, but he (and you) will also become a target. I even tried Symbiotic Wurm, a card which is strictly better than Verdant Force in multiplayer, and found out that Regal Force is wayyyyyy better.
Also take out some of the less useful non-basic lands like Urza's Factory, and Vitu Ghazi, the City Tree. Sure, they make tokens, but they simply cost too much to be of use. If you ever get to the point where you are making tokens with these lands, then you have already lost. I would MUCH RATHER have basic lands or cycling lands.
Finally, Martyr's Cause is another sac outlet and extremely good utility.
@ Donald, you should consider taking out Eternal Dragon and Karmic Justice since they don't really DO anything. Add an Elvish Visionary and Squirrel Nest. Verdant Force sucks. Honestly, he might make you 2-3 tokens for your 7 mana investment, but he (and you) will also become a target. I even tried Symbiotic Wurm, a card which is strictly better than Verdant Force in multiplayer, and found out that Regal Force is wayyyyyy better.
Also take out some of the less useful non-basic lands like Urza's Factory, and Vitu Ghazi, the City Tree. Sure, they make tokens, but they simply cost too much to be of use. If you ever get to the point where you are making tokens with these lands, then you have already lost. I would MUCH RATHER have basic lands or cycling lands.
Finally, Martyr's Cause is another sac outlet and extremely good utility.
Eternal Dragon - He is in a basic Plains slot & that is what I would replace him with if I took him out. I think he is better than a basic land plus he can be pitched to Survival of the Fittest. Karmic Justice - I've had good experience so far with this card but my meta has a reasonable amount of mass land destruction and it interacts very well with Privileged Position & Sterling Grove, especially with both in play. I'll keep my eye on it to see how it performs in the future. Just in case people don't know, this card triggers for each permanent, including itself so if someone blows Oblivion Stone and you lose 5 non-creature permanents you vindicate them 5 times. Elvish Visionary - I have no elf theme at all and this is not a token. Am I missing something here? Squirrel's Nest - Earthcraft is so broken I don't feel I need to include cards that make it better. Without Earthcraft this card is pretty bad IMO. Verdant Force - I haven't been tutoring for him very much recently, Regal Force may indeed be better. I'll make the switch and test him out.
Non-basics - We're just going to have to disagree here, I find that any land that makes tokens to be amazing. Urza's Factory is the worst but still well worth a slot.
Maybe I'm missing it, but what is the InfiLark combo?
Check the bottom of the second page, I gave a walkthrough though there are many interchangeable parts.
Eternal Dragon - He is in a basic Plains slot & that is what I would replace him with if I took him out. I think he is better than a basic land plus he can be pitched to Survival of the Fittest. Karmic Justice - I've had good experience so far with this card but my meta has a reasonable amount of mass land destruction and it interacts very well with Privileged Position & Sterling Grove, especially with both in play. I'll keep my eye on it to see how it performs in the future. Just in case people don't know, this card triggers for each permanent, including itself so if someone blows Oblivion Stone and you lose 5 non-creature permanents you vindicate them 5 times. Elvish Visionary - I have no elf theme at all and this is not a token. Am I missing something here? Squirrel's Nest - Earthcraft is so broken I don't feel I need to include cards that make it better. Without Earthcraft this card is pretty bad IMO. Verdant Force - I haven't been tutoring for him very much recently, Regal Force may indeed be better. I'll make the switch and test him out.
Non-basics - We're just going to have to disagree here, I find that any land that makes tokens to be amazing. Urza's Factory is the worst but still well worth a slot.
Check the bottom of the second page, I gave a walkthrough though there are many interchangeable parts.
Elvish Visionary is ALWAYS a good card. He's a cheap creature with 187 draw that can be clamped, sacked, convoked, or even pitched to Survival. He can also draw your library if you get the combo going.
Eternal Dragon AT BEST gets pitched for Savannah or Survival and never heard from again (because if you are forced to resurrect him, then you are already too far behind). Otherwise, he's just an overcosted 5/5 flyer.
Squirrel Nest isn't even that bad without the almighty Earthcraft, since if you draw one, just tutor for the other. Fast and easy way to go infinite. That said, it is one of the weaker cards in the deck. I will probably replace it with Ant Queen once M10 hits.
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"Psychologically, you have to have confidence in yourself and this confidence should be based on fact." -- Bobby Fischer
Elvish Visionary is ALWAYS a good card. He's a cheap creature with 187 draw that can be clamped, sacked, convoked, or even pitched to Survival. He can also draw your library if you get the combo going.
Something I found a long time ago: just because something doesn't 'cost' a card doesn't mean it's worth a deck slot. All the reasons you gave are nothing specific to Visionary (or any creature for that matter). Look at how many EDH lists run Opt (hint: none).
Eternal Dragon AT BEST gets pitched for Savannah or Survival and never heard from again (because if you are forced to resurrect him, then you are already too far behind). Otherwise, he's just an overcosted 5/5 flyer.
You're never 'forced' to ressurect him, but often you will have the mana and there will be nothing else pressing to do (e.g. you're holding a number of reactive cards or you have a comfortable board presence and don't want to overcommit). I honestly consider him one of the better EDH creatures ever printed. I have also, in the span of a turn, returned him from GY, cycled him, returned him again, and then played him (wanted a shuffle effect), and then he's a relevant board presence. Even aside from that, a colorless activation that fixes color is really good.
Squirrel Nest isn't even that bad without the almighty Earthcraft, since if you draw one, just tutor for the other. Fast and easy way to go infinite. That said, it is one of the weaker cards in the deck. I will probably replace it with Ant Queen once M10 hits.
I'd say it is rather bad without Earthcraft. It's slow, it's just asking for a LD or Bounce effect. When there's enough other possible unbound card interactions, you may as well go with the ones that stand best on their own. This isn't one of them.
You say Eternal Dragon and Karmic Justice don't do anything and then want to add Elvish Visionary? This is honestly rather perplexing. That said, I've had a lot of good luck with Martyr's Cause and would recommend it for any token-centric deck that can make use of sac outlets for combo (i.e. Reveillark).
You say Eternal Dragon and Karmic Justice don't do anything and then want to add Elvish Visionary? This is honestly rather perplexing. That said, I've had a lot of good luck with Martyr's Cause and would recommend it for any token-centric deck that can make use of sac outlets for combo (i.e. Reveillark).
Your response was well thought out and I agree with almost everything you said. Martyr's Cause is the only card I didn't answer on in my post so here goes.
My reasoning is that if I need an enchantment that is a sac outlet I would rather have Perilous Forays even though it has an activation cost. If I need an enchantment to protect myself nothing compares to Humility. That said I should at least playtest the card and make up my mind whether it should be included or not as most people have it in their lists. I've been thinking about Regal Force some more and there are just too many times when I either have 1-2 green creatures ( this includes Regal Force ) or I have 100+ green creatures and would deck myself if he entered play. Plus I really like Skullmulcher for the "creature that draws a ton of cards when he comes into play" slot. So the following changes have been made:
I will say my use of Martyr's Cause was in a Rhys deck that really liked to play Natural Order and Symbiotic Wurm. Sometimes I would sit on Karmig Guide/Reveillark or Saffi/Reveillark + Martyr's Cause and infini-fog until I drew/tutored something to net gain with it, then use it as an outlet to go infinite. Seems similar to the direction that you've taken your deck, but with a focus on a different set of combos. So put simply I was using it as a major defense for the deck, not simply a sac outlet (like Perilous Forays would be).
Thinking about it, another card I really liked in the deck was Slate of Ancestry, but with the permission it looks like you're meta has YMMV.
What is the Reveillark combo in this deck? I don't see it.
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
It's pretty complicated so I will tackle it in steps:
1. Use Survival of the Fittest to put Saffi Ericksdotter, Karmic Guide, Mirror Entity & Yosei, the Morning Star in the graveyard fetching Reveillark with the last one you pitch.
2. Evoke Reveillark getting back Mirror Entity & Karmic Guide with the trigger. Get back Reveillark with Karmic Guide.
3. Activate Mirror Entity for 0 a bunch of times, I'll use 100 for this example.
4. First trigger activates, kills your team & triggers Reveillark who gets back Saffi Ericksdotter & Karmic Guide. Karmic Guide gets back Reveillark. Sac Saffi Ericksdotter targeting Reveillark. 99 triggers on the stack, let the next one resolve.
5. Reveillark triggers then comes back from Saffi Ericksdotter, get back Saffi Ericksdotter & Karmic Guide. Karmic Guide gets back Yosei, the Morning Star. Sac Saffi Ericksdotter targeting Reveillark. 98 triggers on the stack, let the next one resolve.
6. Repeat step 5 for all remaining triggers except for the very last one. Each time, Yosei, the Morning Star will die and you will choose 5 permanents to tap, tap every permanent all your opponents have and they have to skip their untap step. When the last trigger resolves, Reveillark will come into play and trigger. Get back Mirror Entity & Saffi Ericksdotter. You can now repeat the combo for 0 mana at instant speed.
3GG
Ant Queen
Creature - Insect
1G: Put a 1/1 green Insect creature token onto the battlefield
5/5
If it is printed as spoiled I will add it in place of Selesnya Guildmage I think.
Acidic Slime.
Creeping Mold on a stick with Deathtouch, not to mention that it's one of the X-creatures with CiP to be abused with the infiLark engine in the deck. One-sided Armageddon+Fracturing Gust!
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
VERY CHEAP LEGACY SALE (priced to move before April 09!)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8172551#post8172551
Looks excellent, should probably go in the slot being filled by Qasali Pridemage. I like that the Pridemage can sac himself but being able to hit lands and having deathtouch just put the Slime over the top.
This deck is also going to benefit with the removal of mana burn as Gaea's Cradle gets even more ridiculous.
How did the tournament go? Looks like I won't be able to play my deck until 4th of July weekend. You have a decklist to post?
I had Mirari's Wake out, Doubling Season in my hand as well as a Path to Exile I was saving. Then I drew Ajani Goldmane. I smile, dropped Season, they dropped Ajani Goldmane and proceed to make two 42/42 Avatars. (I wasn't getting attacked a lot, plus I had Essence Warden out) We go around the table again, and the guy playing Zur happens to draw Mindslaver. He slavers me, and draws Neck Snap. He attacks with both, forgets that the player he is attacking has Mishra's Factory (as well as some other weenie), so he basically just gets chump blocked. He then proceeds to use my own removal pieces to kill my two avatars. I drew into a bunch of land, and was dead in about four turns from the Lizard tokens from a guy's predatory advantage.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...you aren't playing at Convergence, are you?
You mean the convention up in Minnesota? I'd definitely go if I lived close enough but I'm all the way down in Georgia.
phew! cause im basically copying a lot of your deck list lol
Hope it goes well for you, I'd be interested to find out how you did after the tournament.
Open the Vaults
:4mana::symw::symw: Sorcery Return all artifact and enchantment cards from all graveyards to the battlefield under their owners' control.
I'm running both Replenish and this in my deck. I've got a ton of powerful enchantments I think it's worth considering. And I've started work on my Ertai. I decided to make it unique i.e. not saccing creatures, but enchantments, and getting them back with Replenish, this card
I'll post my Ertai the Corrupted thread soon, meanwhile check out my Dagson thread when I'm done in the next hour writing it up.
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
VERY CHEAP LEGACY SALE (priced to move before April 09!)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8172551#post8172551
Unfortunately Oblivion Stone is standard issue for virtually every deck in my group so I suspect that everything would just get blown up right after I cast this.
-Qasali Pridemage
-Selesnya Guildmage
+Acidic Slime
+Ant Queen
Also take out some of the less useful non-basic lands like Urza's Factory, and Vitu Ghazi, the City Tree. Sure, they make tokens, but they simply cost too much to be of use. If you ever get to the point where you are making tokens with these lands, then you have already lost. I would MUCH RATHER have basic lands or cycling lands.
Finally, Martyr's Cause is another sac outlet and extremely good utility.
Eternal Dragon - He is in a basic Plains slot & that is what I would replace him with if I took him out. I think he is better than a basic land plus he can be pitched to Survival of the Fittest.
Karmic Justice - I've had good experience so far with this card but my meta has a reasonable amount of mass land destruction and it interacts very well with Privileged Position & Sterling Grove, especially with both in play. I'll keep my eye on it to see how it performs in the future. Just in case people don't know, this card triggers for each permanent, including itself so if someone blows Oblivion Stone and you lose 5 non-creature permanents you vindicate them 5 times.
Elvish Visionary - I have no elf theme at all and this is not a token. Am I missing something here?
Squirrel's Nest - Earthcraft is so broken I don't feel I need to include cards that make it better. Without Earthcraft this card is pretty bad IMO.
Verdant Force - I haven't been tutoring for him very much recently, Regal Force may indeed be better. I'll make the switch and test him out.
Non-basics - We're just going to have to disagree here, I find that any land that makes tokens to be amazing. Urza's Factory is the worst but still well worth a slot.
Check the bottom of the second page, I gave a walkthrough though there are many interchangeable parts.
Elvish Visionary is ALWAYS a good card. He's a cheap creature with 187 draw that can be clamped, sacked, convoked, or even pitched to Survival. He can also draw your library if you get the combo going.
Eternal Dragon AT BEST gets pitched for Savannah or Survival and never heard from again (because if you are forced to resurrect him, then you are already too far behind). Otherwise, he's just an overcosted 5/5 flyer.
Squirrel Nest isn't even that bad without the almighty Earthcraft, since if you draw one, just tutor for the other. Fast and easy way to go infinite. That said, it is one of the weaker cards in the deck. I will probably replace it with Ant Queen once M10 hits.
Something I found a long time ago: just because something doesn't 'cost' a card doesn't mean it's worth a deck slot. All the reasons you gave are nothing specific to Visionary (or any creature for that matter). Look at how many EDH lists run Opt (hint: none).
You're never 'forced' to ressurect him, but often you will have the mana and there will be nothing else pressing to do (e.g. you're holding a number of reactive cards or you have a comfortable board presence and don't want to overcommit). I honestly consider him one of the better EDH creatures ever printed. I have also, in the span of a turn, returned him from GY, cycled him, returned him again, and then played him (wanted a shuffle effect), and then he's a relevant board presence. Even aside from that, a colorless activation that fixes color is really good.
I'd say it is rather bad without Earthcraft. It's slow, it's just asking for a LD or Bounce effect. When there's enough other possible unbound card interactions, you may as well go with the ones that stand best on their own. This isn't one of them.
You say Eternal Dragon and Karmic Justice don't do anything and then want to add Elvish Visionary? This is honestly rather perplexing. That said, I've had a lot of good luck with Martyr's Cause and would recommend it for any token-centric deck that can make use of sac outlets for combo (i.e. Reveillark).
Your response was well thought out and I agree with almost everything you said. Martyr's Cause is the only card I didn't answer on in my post so here goes.
My reasoning is that if I need an enchantment that is a sac outlet I would rather have Perilous Forays even though it has an activation cost. If I need an enchantment to protect myself nothing compares to Humility. That said I should at least playtest the card and make up my mind whether it should be included or not as most people have it in their lists. I've been thinking about Regal Force some more and there are just too many times when I either have 1-2 green creatures ( this includes Regal Force ) or I have 100+ green creatures and would deck myself if he entered play. Plus I really like Skullmulcher for the "creature that draws a ton of cards when he comes into play" slot. So the following changes have been made:
-Regal Force
+Martyr's Cause
Thinking about it, another card I really liked in the deck was Slate of Ancestry, but with the permission it looks like you're meta has YMMV.