Gaea's Cradle + Fatestitcher + Life from the Loam + Cycle Land + Spitting Image + 5 creatures in play other than fatestitcher = Basically infinite mana and infinite fatestitchers with the ability to have an infinite number of every creature on the board, where Infinite is the number of cards in your deck/3, except for mana because you'll eventually acquire the ability to gain dozens of mana per tap of the cradle.
Since you're going to kill them with laboratory maniac anyways, you win instantly.
i don't agree with a single Null Rod here.
- it's an artifact, easy to destroy
- it's not consistent
I'd rather put in sol ring and mana crypt just to be more explosive during first turns, just my 2 cents.
Having access to that few colored mana might be nice in another deck, but here it is not only completely contrary to my plan, it would actually slow me down.
The first turn or two with this deck does not involve insane ramp into oblivion, and then suddenly I win through the tempo advantage that mana gives me. I instead want to set up a discard/self mill engine and then proceed to churn out exponentially greater advantages until I have the ability to win, without anyone having a say in the matter.
Turn one sol ring or mana crypt don't help. I don't actually have that many targets for that colorless mana (I want colored mana, not colorless) and I don't want to draw pointless attention by playing them turn one and suddenly seeming to be in the lead, and the target of all hate. This is bad.
I also do not need to be explosive, should I have a hand capable of abusing an early sol ring/crypt. I can easily churn my deck into my yard by turn 5 with an average hand. The best hand I've gotten handed me the win on turn 3. I don't need sol ring mana.
On the other flipper, Null Rod is a neccessary piece of hate for the deck. It stops a tremendous amount of hate against me and stops a tremendous percentage of other folk's decks. Your turn one sol ring, signet, go meets my turn 2 null rod and suddenly I just gained insane tempo without hurting my own game plan. Your turn 1 relic of progenitus is also ineffective against stopping my plan... though I can actually win with grave hate present, it doesnt hurt to deal with it for the entire game.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I agree with null rod shutting down opponent's artifacts, however based on playtesting yesterday, the rod does not always come up in every game when it is relevant, whilst my opponents artifacts almost always come up and being relevant, even when it does come up it is easily handled by 3 opponents or more.
IMO your deck once people know how it works will always be the target from the get go even if you don't start explosively so why not do it explosively anyways?
I think after the inclusion of mana crypt/sol ring, you can add more ramping mana dorks like wood elves/farheaven elf. after ramping they can draw you cards with edric, overextending the maximal hand limit of 7 and discard (hopefully dredgers) at the cleanup phase?
Also what do you think of stifle effect cards to protect us from gy hate effects?
Basically i just don't like doing nothing during my first turns with edric, llanowar/fyndhorn/green sun into dryad arbor/sol ring/mana crypt into wood elves.
I think I want to go back to the Zealot, as it's a two mana body when I need to draw cards, and It's a four mana disenchant when I want it, over the Elder's 5 cost.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
While break asunder is tempting, I think zealot is the right choice. You can even convince people not to play troublesome enchantments/artifacts by having it there. The real question is why did you ever consider the elder? Acidic slime, or Indrik Stomphowler seems better at the same cost.
The only catch is that zealot is a 1GGG disenchant, which is rather expensive in colour cost. Claim can be snapped back....
I can maybe see not running Sol Ring in this deck (though I think doing so is probably wrong) but Mana Crypt takes up a land slot (as does Sol Ring in most decks) making it a very painless add. Even if you only use 1 mana off it a turn it's still very good and nothing is forcing you to play it turn 1 if you don't have any use for it. Saying it's just not necessary is like saying mana isn't necessary.
Also, what do you think about Skaab Ruinator? I love that guy, and think he'd work fairly well.
At first I thought it was an auto-include, and had him in from the beginning. After several games, though, I realized it was completely useless. Over more than 50 games, I think It was advantageous to cast him maybe once. A 5/6 Beatstick is great and all.. but only if it does something useful.
What about thought scour? Cantrip and mill? Or the two drop skaab?
Thought Scour already exists in Mental Note. Mongoose players, rejoice. Since Mental Note was already discarded as being too weak, Thought Scour definitely doesn't go in.
...And the skaab is also too weak. If the significantly better Armored Skaab doesn't do enough, this one certainly doesn't. In EDH the effect just isn't enough. It needs to be massive, like Avenging Druid.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Easy change. Pedantic Learning is fantastic once it gets going... and you have a dredger... and you have open mana. Too many variables to control. Tracker's Insights is straight goodness, which makes it simple to slot in.
Thinking about Quiet Speculation, which seems like it could be fairly powerful here.
Primer:
I'll write more primer once classes and work have settled down a bit.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Also, what do you think about Skaab Ruinator? I love that guy, and think he'd work fairly well.
The exiling creatures from your graveyard is what really makes me hate him. You've got win cons that rely on creatures staying there and have a ton of ways to get creatures back from your graveyard to your hand or to play, why hamstring your strategy?
I also loved Tracker's Instinct, definitely an auto-include. Pedantic Learning always seemed like an expensive way to draw cards. I'd rather play something like Rhystic Study if I wanted to draw cards at random times. Its amazing how many people don't pay that extra 1.
Thinking about Quiet Speculation, which seems like it could be fairly powerful here.
This deck looks like a riot to pilot, terrific work. Speculation seems both very powerful and a natural fit for your deck. Three cards to your graveyard is just as good as drawing three cards (probably better) and when it only costs 1U you're getting a hell of a bargain. The only detriment I can see is that you've only got six potential targets onboard, but even using this to pull a single card is the same value as Demonic Tutor. No idea what to cut for it but I think your definitely on to something.
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Thoughts on : http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/94/521/635032496531405200.jpg for the deck?
Too slow, and requires a lot of mana to be useful. If this were an Oona infinite combo deck, I might run that, but not in this.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I don't see this as a combo unless you forgot to add Concordant Crossroads to this.
Yes, that too. There are so many pieces, see. However, it's actually really easy to acquire all of them. A single Nostalgic Dreams sets up the combo.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Thoughts?
If River Kelpie is too random and pointless, this isn't any better, as creatures are far easier to recur. It's a no.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
- it's an artifact, easy to destroy
- it's not consistent
I'd rather put in sol ring and mana crypt just to be more explosive during first turns, just my 2 cents.
Having access to that few colored mana might be nice in another deck, but here it is not only completely contrary to my plan, it would actually slow me down.
The first turn or two with this deck does not involve insane ramp into oblivion, and then suddenly I win through the tempo advantage that mana gives me. I instead want to set up a discard/self mill engine and then proceed to churn out exponentially greater advantages until I have the ability to win, without anyone having a say in the matter.
Turn one sol ring or mana crypt don't help. I don't actually have that many targets for that colorless mana (I want colored mana, not colorless) and I don't want to draw pointless attention by playing them turn one and suddenly seeming to be in the lead, and the target of all hate. This is bad.
I also do not need to be explosive, should I have a hand capable of abusing an early sol ring/crypt. I can easily churn my deck into my yard by turn 5 with an average hand. The best hand I've gotten handed me the win on turn 3. I don't need sol ring mana.
On the other flipper, Null Rod is a neccessary piece of hate for the deck. It stops a tremendous amount of hate against me and stops a tremendous percentage of other folk's decks. Your turn one sol ring, signet, go meets my turn 2 null rod and suddenly I just gained insane tempo without hurting my own game plan. Your turn 1 relic of progenitus is also ineffective against stopping my plan... though I can actually win with grave hate present, it doesnt hurt to deal with it for the entire game.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
IMO your deck once people know how it works will always be the target from the get go even if you don't start explosively so why not do it explosively anyways?
I think after the inclusion of mana crypt/sol ring, you can add more ramping mana dorks like wood elves/farheaven elf. after ramping they can draw you cards with edric, overextending the maximal hand limit of 7 and discard (hopefully dredgers) at the cleanup phase?
Also what do you think of stifle effect cards to protect us from gy hate effects?
Basically i just don't like doing nothing during my first turns with edric, llanowar/fyndhorn/green sun into dryad arbor/sol ring/mana crypt into wood elves.
It's crazy, this deck. Do you think you need some disenchant effects?
I think I just need better ones. Wickerbough Elder is just slow. Nature's Claim is an option, but I'd rather it was attached to a body.
Best Options:
Break Asunder - Cycles!
Nature's Claim - One Mana!
Viridian Zealot - Cheaper!
I think I want to go back to the Zealot, as it's a two mana body when I need to draw cards, and It's a four mana disenchant when I want it, over the Elder's 5 cost.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
The best answer is that they are just not necessary.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The only catch is that zealot is a 1GGG disenchant, which is rather expensive in colour cost. Claim can be snapped back....
It's bad, in my opinion.
However, Tracker's Instincts is going straight into this deck. That card is nuts for us.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
@*@*!!!!! noooooooooo was just on my way here to post that.
What about thought scour? Cantrip and mill? Or the two drop skaab?
At first I thought it was an auto-include, and had him in from the beginning. After several games, though, I realized it was completely useless. Over more than 50 games, I think It was advantageous to cast him maybe once. A 5/6 Beatstick is great and all.. but only if it does something useful.
Ruinator does not.
Thought Scour already exists in Mental Note. Mongoose players, rejoice. Since Mental Note was already discarded as being too weak, Thought Scour definitely doesn't go in.
...And the skaab is also too weak. If the significantly better Armored Skaab doesn't do enough, this one certainly doesn't. In EDH the effect just isn't enough. It needs to be massive, like Avenging Druid.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
- Pedantic Learning
+ Tracker's Insights
Easy change. Pedantic Learning is fantastic once it gets going... and you have a dredger... and you have open mana. Too many variables to control. Tracker's Insights is straight goodness, which makes it simple to slot in.
Thinking about Quiet Speculation, which seems like it could be fairly powerful here.
Primer:
I'll write more primer once classes and work have settled down a bit.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The exiling creatures from your graveyard is what really makes me hate him. You've got win cons that rely on creatures staying there and have a ton of ways to get creatures back from your graveyard to your hand or to play, why hamstring your strategy?
I also loved Tracker's Instinct, definitely an auto-include. Pedantic Learning always seemed like an expensive way to draw cards. I'd rather play something like Rhystic Study if I wanted to draw cards at random times. Its amazing how many people don't pay that extra 1.
This deck looks like a riot to pilot, terrific work. Speculation seems both very powerful and a natural fit for your deck. Three cards to your graveyard is just as good as drawing three cards (probably better) and when it only costs 1U you're getting a hell of a bargain. The only detriment I can see is that you've only got six potential targets onboard, but even using this to pull a single card is the same value as Demonic Tutor. No idea what to cut for it but I think your definitely on to something.