However, I have always loved Doran. (Walls happen to be my favorite creature type, and he's the closest to a "Lord" that I think they'll ever see.) Unfortunately, as you said, people tend to nuke Doran once your wall tries to swing. I like that you've found a way to utilize him while keeping the deck usable with him gone.
Now with the formalities outta the way, I think Aurification would be a good replacement for your Luminarch Ascention. Great rattlesnake card, almost on par with No Mercy.
However, I have always loved Doran. (Walls happen to be my favorite creature type, and he's the closest to a "Lord" that I think they'll ever see.) Unfortunately, as you said, people tend to nuke Doran once your wall tries to swing. I like that you've found a way to utilize him while keeping the deck usable with him gone.
Now with the formalities outta the way, I think Aurification would be a good replacement for your Luminarch Ascention. Great rattlesnake card, almost on par with No Mercy.
The only thing I don't like about Aurification is that once you remove it the counters go away. Well, I don't like the casting cost either, but mostly it's that for four mana it should stop attackers permanently. I agree though that it is a good rattlesnake card.
Did you ever get around to playing Elspeth, Sun's Champion in here? I saw your Theros review which made it sound like you were going to include her but don't see her in list.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Did you ever get around to playing Elspeth, Sun's Champion in here? I saw your Theros review which made it sound like you were going to include her but don't see her in list.
No. She was never high on my list of cards to get so I dont own one yet. I guess I should look for one though.
Edit: Well Puca didn't let me down. One is being sent to me so I'll test her out eventually.
Since I haven't really do any set reviews since BNG, I'm just going to do a quick rundown of the cards that I've liked from Journey on, with a little more focus on Khans. I'm also ignoring reprints. (Spoiler alert: not much has excited me.)
Journey into Nyx
Athreos, God of Passage - When this card was first spoiled I wasn't at all impressed and didn't expect it to see much play. One player at my LGS built a deck and my suspicions were confirmed because the deck was pretty weak (he's also a more casual builder, so this isn't meant as a slight against his deck or him). I recently built a deck around Athreos because I wanted a small creature grindy deck. It had a lot of elements of a Teysa deck, and it turned out to be a lot of fun to play. As a result, I think I'm going to find a home for it in Doran.
Eidolon of Rhetoric - Effectively a 4/4 for 3 (yay Sun Titan), and stops combo decks in their tracks. I tend to not cast a lot of stuff each turn, so this shouldn't hurt too much.
Godsend - Just a solid equipment, and cheap to cast.
Nessian Game Warden - I have mixed feelings about this. Being in three colors it probably won't dig very deep, and it cost 5 mana. Creature-heavy aggro builds might like it though.
Nyx-Fleece Ram - Not sure yet. A 5/5 for two mana is decent, and gaining a life during your upkeep can be relevant, especially if you have an active Phyrexian Arena. I got a copy, don't know if I'll use it.
Reprisal - Decent instant speed removal, but white and black have better, less restricting choices.
Conspiracy (There aren't many new cards, and I don't like the mechanics Will of the Counsel and Parley).
Deathreap Ritual - Not really steady card draw, but it's draw that an opponent won't waste removal on unless you start abusing it.
M15
Ajani Steadfast - Targets Doran mostly, but that +1 is really good.
Genesis Hydra - X doesn't have to be much, as least for me, because I typically run a lower curve in the deck. But it still has the benefit of being good later on in the game, and the more mana you dump into it the better.
Hushwing Gryff - Torpor Orb #2, if that is your sort of thing.
Kalonian Twingrove - I feel obliged to mention this. I don't like it because it is dependent upon my number of Forests. But it is a Treefolk, so it's at least worth considering in tribal builds. 6 mana is really the upper limit I want to pay, and it's a vanilla. Won't run it ever.
Abzan Charm - Meh. I like the first mode, but the other ones aren't that good (I don't like Sign in Blood for more restrictive mana).
Archers' Parapet - For a tribal defender deck, this won't be all that bad as an EOT mana sink.
Brave the Sands - In a big butt deck, this will be a great card to run. Even if it was just for the vigilance, I'd consider running it, but being able to block multiple creatures will make us less likely to get attacked.
Kheru Dreadmaw - Again, a decent card in a big butt deck because you can use it to respond to a wrath or save a creature from getting exiled.
Well I'm going to try out this deck list tomorrow night. I was hoping my Yawgmoth's Will came in the mail before tomorrow, but so far it hasn't. Maybe I'll get lucky. I also wanted to find room for Dark Confidant, but I feel like the curve is still too high.
I would like to build a solid Doran deck. Although he is usually considered to be an straight-forward aggro, I don't plan to play my deck this way or make dealing damage with Doran my win condition. So, do you think that building a strong defense, keeping my hand full and when the time is right, attacking with my 1,2,3/X's is a way to go? Of course I am a kinda afraid of wrath effects... But, hell, it's a game. Here's my WIP decklist, I would really appreciate some feedback on it. Thanks guys!
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-09-14-doran-edh/
edit: I know the manabase sucks... But lands tend to be expensive.
(Going through the list in order)
Well right off the bat you can cut Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, as you only have two cards that can trigger the heroic. Ornithopter is really weak, so it can go as well. Sylvan Primordial is banned (unless you're making a 1v1 list, in which case I would highly recommend looking at emether's list in the 1v1 subforum). Merciless Eviction and Thornling are both strong so you should find homes for them both. New Frontiers isn't a card I want to play unless I have Amulet of Vigor out, because you're tapping out to give your opponents a lot of mana so you get a major disadvantage. (Similar drawback to playing something like Howling Mine.)
My experience with playing a defensive build like this is that it's pretty slow, and you really need to ensure that Doran can come out and stay out. Thanks to Khans we have a lot more wedgeland options at the cost of speed. That really isn't a bad thing unless you're playing an aggressive deck such as my build, but a slower one can get away with more ETBT lands. You also want to be able to protect Doran with stuff like Greaves, Boots, Whispersilk Cloak, or Archetype of Endurance, for example. When he isn't out you're stuck with a ton of small creatures that don't pose any threat. You don't have much evasion either. Cards like Behemoth Sledge, Brawn, and Dauthi Embrace are all really solid adds that aren't too expensive. For more redundacy with your walls, there's Warmonger's Chariot as well. Kitsune Loreweaver is a fun pumper, especially if you plan on keeping a full grip. For longer games I would recommend some one-sided board wipes like Retribution of the Meek, Toxic Deluge, and Wave of Rekoning. Other defensive options are Ensnaring Bridge, Spidersilk Armor and No Mercy. Finally, I'd include something to make your alphastrike more effective, like Triumph of the Hordes, Overwhelming Stampede, or Overrun.
I've added Yoked Ox, Ornithopter and Laggona-Band Trailblazer all from the same reason - they are mana-friendly and potentional 4/4's (or flying 2/2). So, do you think they're too useless in the amount of cheap creatures in the deck?
Mana friendly is good, but I also like to evaluate the cards with a "if Doran isn't out do I want these?" slant. Take a creature like Indomitable Ancients. Super cool when Doran is in play, and a glorified wall when he isn't in play. He also gets stopped by a Goat token. This is really the heart of why I couldn't find enjoyment in this style of deck. Even without trying to rely on winning via general damage, it is still critical that he be in play. That's why I mentioned the ways to grant evasion, and the Overrun effects. It's also why cards like Skinshifter and Thornling are so cool.
New Frontiers seemed to be great combo with Avenger of Zendikar, but I suppose I will cut it for some Doran-protecting stuff, since I don't porbably need many ramp effects anyway.
That is a pretty cool combo, but like I said, I dislike the effect because it also helps the opponents. How about replacing it with Beastmaster Ascension? You'll get an even broader pump and it's one-sided.
There are some pretty decent Treefolk, so tribal is certainly an option. I like the big-butt approach over the wall approach simply because you can still attack and have a decent defense.
Kris told me to read your primer on Doran. I have learned a lot from it but I think Doran can be built like a midrange/aggro deck. I like adding Eidolon of Rhetoric considering I play with a lot of crazy combo players. What are your thoughts on Godsend in the Doran deck?
Kris told me to read your primer on Doran. I have learned a lot from it but I think Doran can be built like a midrange/aggro deck. I like adding Eidolon of Rhetoric considering I play with a lot of crazy combo players. What are your thoughts on Godsend in the Doran deck?
~M
Like I said last night, the build I had was going for more speed and focused on general damage aggro. Junk has a lot going for it with midrange, so you can certainly do that and treat Doran more as a 5/5 rather than a team booster. The list in the OP is more out of date. I was using MTGO a lot, but the new client sucks and I haven't logged on in months. Eventually I'll have to fix the list in the OP, but this was closer to the build I played a few weeks ago at Titan.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is a really good card. I don't know if I have any, but I would definitely run it. Similarly, I've used Godsend a few times now and I like it a lot. It's not quite as good as a sword, but if you have one I'd run it. Same with Batterskull in the deck you showed me.
If you need one I can bring one next week. I have extras of Eidolon. I'm going to build a list similar to your's but with more recursion and midrange. I also want to have the option to be an aggro deck. I'm sitting at home and determining what to go with based on my collection and what I own.
Trying something a little goofy here. I've been recently inspired by/enthralled with Legacy Lands, and I've been watching this guy with a goofy european accent on youtube play a few matches with a pretty well honed Lands deck on MTGO.
I've been a long time Doran player and I love how I can constantly evolve different play styles around him. I tried to throw together a deck that might/could play like an EDH version of Legacy lands, blending it together with aggro hatebears.
In true Legacy Lands fashion it's a very grindy deck that tries to hexproof your side of the board with enchantments, chip away with very cheat aggro beaters, while building up a recurring supply of lands to trigger our beefy landfall dudes, and maybe triggering a Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo once in a blue moon.
Surprised you're not running Emeria Angel or Crucible of Worlds. The cycle lands work really well with Life from the Loam to dredge and draw you cards, if that's your thing. I also notice you have some lands that want to be in the graveyard. Have you considered Infernal Tribute as a minor source of card draw?
Surprised you're not running Emeria Angel or Crucible of Worlds. The cycle lands work really well with Life from the Loam to dredge and draw you cards, if that's your thing. I also notice you have some lands that want to be in the graveyard. Have you considered Infernal Tribute as a minor source of card draw?
I am running Crucible, it was under the Ramp section for some reason, so I just moved it to Recursion. I didn't know Infernal Tribute was a card, but it looks like a pretty great choice for this deck, especially since it's so easy to get cards back (of any kind really).
I'm not running Emeria Angel cuz a) I didn't have a copy, and b) it seems like it's not quite as much bang per buck as the other landfall cards provide. It might be worth it if I swap in Skullclamp.
Sorry if I'm reanimating this thread but it is a Primer after all, so people will flock to it, regardless of the last post.
Dunno if anybody else has mentioned it or not, but a good life gain, big butts side plan is Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. The lifegain becomes ridiculous which is good if the game turns from aggro to midrange.
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Sorry if I'm reanimating this thread but it is a Primer after all, so people will flock to it, regardless of the last post.
Dunno if anybody else has mentioned it or not, but a good life gain, big butts side plan is Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. The lifegain becomes ridiculous which is good if the game turns from aggro to midrange.
That's a really good card for big butts Doran. I always overlook this card because I focus on the second ability and never really run tokens, but the first ability is sweet. Good catch!
I'm testing a build currently and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice has been too broken. As for not using the populate function of Trostani, you can make some pretty decent tokens with the deck as well. I run Kin-Tree Invocation to much success in the deck and populating it is super broken - not to mention populating Serra Avatar (well, the token made with Ajani Goldmane). Adding +1/+1 counters is also a nice sub-theme to the deck. Gavony Township is brutal. Making your creatures huge in both ways also makes their ass bigger which is also a plus. All in all, I have a lot of ideas for the deck but I'm still ironing out the kinks. Still, Trostani always makes a huge splash if I manage to cast it early game. Mid to late game usually makes me a target, but by then most players are either gone or they've already wasted their resources.
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Over the last few months I have been debating retiring my primer because I have not given it the attention it deserves. I keep telling myself that I'll come back and make updates and fix the broken formatting, but it has become apparent that this will not happen. I would like to thank everyone who has contributed. I still intend to fix the formatting, but with all that I have going on with my other deck projects, I know that I will not be giving Doran the attention he deserves.
However, I have always loved Doran. (Walls happen to be my favorite creature type, and he's the closest to a "Lord" that I think they'll ever see.) Unfortunately, as you said, people tend to nuke Doran once your wall tries to swing. I like that you've found a way to utilize him while keeping the deck usable with him gone.
Now with the formalities outta the way, I think Aurification would be a good replacement for your Luminarch Ascention. Great rattlesnake card, almost on par with No Mercy.
The only thing I don't like about Aurification is that once you remove it the counters go away. Well, I don't like the casting cost either, but mostly it's that for four mana it should stop attackers permanently. I agree though that it is a good rattlesnake card.
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[Modern] Allies
No. She was never high on my list of cards to get so I dont own one yet. I guess I should look for one though.
Edit: Well Puca didn't let me down. One is being sent to me so I'll test her out eventually.
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Journey into Nyx
Conspiracy (There aren't many new cards, and I don't like the mechanics Will of the Counsel and Parley).
M15
Khans of Tarkir
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1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
5 Forest
5 Swamp
5 Plains
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Opal Palace
1 Strip Mine
1 Winding Canyons
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Marsh Flats
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
Artifacts
1 Mana Vault
1 Slagwurm Armor
1 Sol Ring
2 Golgari Signet
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Selesnya Signet
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Behemoth Sledge
3 Ensouled Scimitar
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of War and Peace
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Serra Ascendant
2 Bloom Tender
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Skinshifter
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Wall of Omens
3 Eternal Witness
3 Hushwing Gryff
4 Graveborn Muse
5 Baneslayer Angel
5 Divinity of Pride
5 Reveillark
6 Sun Titan
6 Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantments
1 Exploration
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
2 Sylvan Library
3 Dauthi Embrace
3 Phyrexian Arena
5 Exquisite Blood
Instants
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Deglamer
2 Doom Blade
2 Eladamri's Call
2 Go for the Throat
3 Beast Within
3 Dismember
3 Mortify
3 Putrefy
1 Safewright Quest
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Unearth
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Explore
2 Farseek
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
2 Regrowth
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Vindicate
6 Merciless Eviction
Planeswalkers
6 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Edit: Just realized I forgot Worldly Tutor, so I have to find a spot for it.
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(Going through the list in order)
Well right off the bat you can cut Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, as you only have two cards that can trigger the heroic. Ornithopter is really weak, so it can go as well. Sylvan Primordial is banned (unless you're making a 1v1 list, in which case I would highly recommend looking at emether's list in the 1v1 subforum). Merciless Eviction and Thornling are both strong so you should find homes for them both. New Frontiers isn't a card I want to play unless I have Amulet of Vigor out, because you're tapping out to give your opponents a lot of mana so you get a major disadvantage. (Similar drawback to playing something like Howling Mine.)
My experience with playing a defensive build like this is that it's pretty slow, and you really need to ensure that Doran can come out and stay out. Thanks to Khans we have a lot more wedgeland options at the cost of speed. That really isn't a bad thing unless you're playing an aggressive deck such as my build, but a slower one can get away with more ETBT lands. You also want to be able to protect Doran with stuff like Greaves, Boots, Whispersilk Cloak, or Archetype of Endurance, for example. When he isn't out you're stuck with a ton of small creatures that don't pose any threat. You don't have much evasion either. Cards like Behemoth Sledge, Brawn, and Dauthi Embrace are all really solid adds that aren't too expensive. For more redundacy with your walls, there's Warmonger's Chariot as well. Kitsune Loreweaver is a fun pumper, especially if you plan on keeping a full grip. For longer games I would recommend some one-sided board wipes like Retribution of the Meek, Toxic Deluge, and Wave of Rekoning. Other defensive options are Ensnaring Bridge, Spidersilk Armor and No Mercy. Finally, I'd include something to make your alphastrike more effective, like Triumph of the Hordes, Overwhelming Stampede, or Overrun.
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Mana friendly is good, but I also like to evaluate the cards with a "if Doran isn't out do I want these?" slant. Take a creature like Indomitable Ancients. Super cool when Doran is in play, and a glorified wall when he isn't in play. He also gets stopped by a Goat token. This is really the heart of why I couldn't find enjoyment in this style of deck. Even without trying to rely on winning via general damage, it is still critical that he be in play. That's why I mentioned the ways to grant evasion, and the Overrun effects. It's also why cards like Skinshifter and Thornling are so cool.
That is a pretty cool combo, but like I said, I dislike the effect because it also helps the opponents. How about replacing it with Beastmaster Ascension? You'll get an even broader pump and it's one-sided.
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Kris told me to read your primer on Doran. I have learned a lot from it but I think Doran can be built like a midrange/aggro deck. I like adding Eidolon of Rhetoric considering I play with a lot of crazy combo players. What are your thoughts on Godsend in the Doran deck?
~M
Like I said last night, the build I had was going for more speed and focused on general damage aggro. Junk has a lot going for it with midrange, so you can certainly do that and treat Doran more as a 5/5 rather than a team booster. The list in the OP is more out of date. I was using MTGO a lot, but the new client sucks and I haven't logged on in months. Eventually I'll have to fix the list in the OP, but this was closer to the build I played a few weeks ago at Titan.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is a really good card. I don't know if I have any, but I would definitely run it. Similarly, I've used Godsend a few times now and I like it a lot. It's not quite as good as a sword, but if you have one I'd run it. Same with Batterskull in the deck you showed me.
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Just run Spidersilk Armor. It's a win/win, and you can grab it with Enlightened Tutor.
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I've been a long time Doran player and I love how I can constantly evolve different play styles around him. I tried to throw together a deck that might/could play like an EDH version of Legacy lands, blending it together with aggro hatebears.
In true Legacy Lands fashion it's a very grindy deck that tries to hexproof your side of the board with enchantments, chip away with very cheat aggro beaters, while building up a recurring supply of lands to trigger our beefy landfall dudes, and maybe triggering a Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo once in a blue moon.
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
Critters
0 Dryad Arbor
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Serra Ascendant
2 Joiner Adept
2 Vinelasher Kudzu
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Sakura-tribe Elder
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Skinshifter
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abzan Falconer
3 Stinkweed Imp
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Eternal Witness
3 Knight of the Reliquary
5 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
5 Archangel of Thune
5 Thornling
6 Sun Titan
6 Rampaging Baloths
7 Avenger of Zendikar
Enchantment Creatures
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Aegis of the Gods
3 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Nylea, God of the Hunt
8 Archetype of Endurance
2 Sterling grove
2 Greater Auramancy
3 Aura Shards
3 Underworld Connections
3 Karmic Justice
5 Privileged Position
6 Primeval Bounty
Tricks & Removal
1 Path to Exile
2x Unexpectedly Absent
3 Abzan Charm
4 Cataclysm
4 Armageddon
4 Wrath of God
4 Utter End
Garruk
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Equipment
3 Behemoth Sledge
Draw, Tutor, & Recursion
1 Enlightened Tutor
1x Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sign in Blood
2 Eladamri's call
2 Life from the Loam
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Read the Bones
4 Increasing Ambition
5 Living Death
5 Unburial Rites
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
1 Crop rotation
3 Harrow
4 Tempt With Discovery
Lands
0 Plains (4)
0 Forest (2)
0 Swamp (2)
0 Caves of Koilos
0 Tainted Field
0 Godless Shrine
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Murmuring Bosk
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Stirring Wildwood
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Undiscovered Paradise
0 Krosan Verge
0 Temple Garden
0 Riftstone Portal
0 Dakmor Salvage
0 Sandsteppe Citadel
0 Gemstone Mine
0 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
0 Command Tower
0 Thespian's Stage
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Treetop Village
0 Dark Depths
0 Forbidding Watchtower
0 Golgari Rot Farm
0 Windswept Heath
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Strip Mine
0 High market
0 Lotus vale
0 Flagstones of Trokair
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I am running Crucible, it was under the Ramp section for some reason, so I just moved it to Recursion. I didn't know Infernal Tribute was a card, but it looks like a pretty great choice for this deck, especially since it's so easy to get cards back (of any kind really).
I'm not running Emeria Angel cuz a) I didn't have a copy, and b) it seems like it's not quite as much bang per buck as the other landfall cards provide. It might be worth it if I swap in Skullclamp.
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Dunno if anybody else has mentioned it or not, but a good life gain, big butts side plan is Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. The lifegain becomes ridiculous which is good if the game turns from aggro to midrange.
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That's a really good card for big butts Doran. I always overlook this card because I focus on the second ability and never really run tokens, but the first ability is sweet. Good catch!
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BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
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