I built a budget Teysa list and Hallowed Spiritkeeper is definitely in. I may be able to clear enough budget to throw in Crux of Fate. Flesh Carver definitely deserves a spot.
If this new Liliana is not perfect for this deck I don't know what is She's on theme for just abour every aspect of what we're trying to accomplish, amazing!
3 cmc (Sun Titan)
2 power (Reveillark)
Human (Xathrid Necromancer)
Lifelink has synergy with gameplan
Black for Teysa tokens
Creates black token
Recursion at 3 cmc or less
Emblem has perfect synergy with the deck
If this new Liliana is not perfect for this deck I don't know what is She's on theme for just abour every aspect of what we're trying to accomplish, amazing!
3 cmc (Sun Titan)
2 power (Reveillark)
Human (Xathrid Necromancer)
Lifelink has synergy with gameplan
Black for Teysa tokens
Creates black token
Recursion at 3 cmc or less
Emblem has perfect synergy with the deck
I feel like there is some kind of hidden combo with this card some crazy thing idk lol defiantly going to give it a try. in love with the art and the aesthetic
If this new Liliana is not perfect for this deck I don't know what is She's on theme for just abour every aspect of what we're trying to accomplish, amazing!
3 cmc (Sun Titan)
2 power (Reveillark)
Human (Xathrid Necromancer)
Lifelink has synergy with gameplan
Black for Teysa tokens
Creates black token
Recursion at 3 cmc or less
Emblem has perfect synergy with the deck
I feel like there is some kind of hidden combo with this card some crazy thing idk lol defiantly going to give it a try. in love with the art and the aesthetic
She seems actually liek she could be very strong. The main interaction I like with her is Reveillark. In a loop you can go infinite bringing her out, saccing a creature, flipping and the -X=3 to get a 3CMC creature out of the yard, putting her back into the GY (as a creature) which lets you reanimate her with Reveillark and do it all again. Outside of going infinite, which I'm sure there are more ways to go infinite with her she has a lot of utility as a black creature which lets you generate a token at a 3 drop, not much different to Xathrid Necromancer in this regard. Her planeswalker form allows you to fill your yard with prime discard tagets if you need to, or alternatively just pick up any essential combo piece you need from your GY (most of which are 3CMC Or less anyway) and then go to town.
Has anyone updated this deck with the new FRF and Commander 2014 lists? Here Is what I have been thinking card wise from the new sets:
CMDR 2014:
Hallowed Spiritkeeper - YES! I've played with this guy and he is an amazing sac and reanimate target. Its too bad its printed with 3 power otherwise it would be broken with Revillark Containment Priest - I think its worth a shot, especially if your meta plays reanimator. It has potential to screw us over as well, but we can always sack it when we want to go off and bring reanimate it later. Flesh Carver - Creatures that die and leave a creature on the field are pretty good. This guy is also a sac outlet and an evasive beater? I think he replaces Rotlung Reanimator pretty easily. Arcane Lighthouse - Good utility land and I think deserves a spot in any deck Myriad Landscape - I'm not going to say no to a land that ramps and fixes
Thats all for the commander. I think Gissa is too expensive and the offering cards are a little lackluster for us
Fate Reforged:
Palace Siege - 5 mana is expensive, but getting a creature back from the yard is a damn strong effect for us. I'm on the fence about this one. Merciless Executioner - Fleshbag Marauder is good, two of them could be good. Orc Sureshot - I think this warrants some testing. With the ammount of tokens we make this could easily just snipe creatures off the board. its too bad they only last till end of turn. Qarsi High Priest - Sac's a creature and makes a new 2/2. I'm really not sure how good he is, but I loved playing him in a draft. Archfiend of Depravity - This guy keeps other people from having outrageous board states. Might be too high a casting cost though. Crux of Fate - Don't run many wraths personally but if I did I would consider this one a decent pick after Damnation and Wrath of God Harsh Sustenance - I could see this card getting out of hand pretty damn quickly with how many tokens we can make. Sandsteppe Outcast - This guy is ok, 2 white creatures for 1 spell is pretty decent imo. Valorous Stance - Protects Teysa and Kills big baddies, I like it. Mastery of the Unseen - Not sure how good manifest is in here since the creatures will be colorless, but it makes 2/2's and if you can flip them you will gain a ton of life.
Thats all i got for now let me know what you guys think, and what have you added to your decks recently?
I think none of these FRF cards are really worth putting into the deck. Palace Siege there are much better, cheaper effects which are the same or similar - Oversold Cemetery, Phyrexian Reclaimation, Decaying Soil Merciless Executioner okay this one I guess, I already got a Fleshbag Marauder in foil but this guy has marginal tribal upside. Orc Sureshot very expensive and there is better. If you want this effect you would be much better running Phyrexian Overlord Qarsi High Priest taps to sac, boo Archfiend of Depravity super expensive, I think ud be better off just running a wrath Crux of Fate a decent wrath but we have access to white, which has the decentest wraths Harsh Sustenance not bad but it is just a one shot thing which I'm not a fan of. We can't recur instants/sorceries and if you are making infinite tokens or enough to kill with, then you probably dont need this to help and it's just winmore Valorous Stance much better spot removal in white. Protection is marginal with how much recursion is run in the deck. Plus there will be many times where this is much less useful than you first imagine, people run lots of tuck and exile effects which negate a lot of usefulness of that half of the card Mastery of the Unseen too expensive for what it does imo, as you said the creatures are colourless making them much less useful. I think its better to just go Luminarch Ascension, Mobilization, Sacred Mesa if you need this kind of effect as those guys have colours and cheaper activation costs.
Yay new card time. Looks like there might be some actual cards to add this time around. Just the main ones which caught my eye at a glance
Dutiful Attendant 3cmc might just be low enough to have this kind of effect on an easily recurrable creature Vulturous Aven Of all the exploit cards, this is the one that is probably the best for this deck. Again its pretty much Sign in Blood but attached to a body with the magical 2 power needed for Reveillark fun Secure the Wastes personally won't be using this as it's a one shot spell but I can def see a world where it would be good Fate Forgotten Slightly more expensive Revoke Existence at instant speed but cheaper Return to Dust, just gives you more freedom when designing your removal suite
Yay new card time. Looks like there might be some actual cards to add this time around. Just the main ones which caught my eye at a glance
Dutiful Attendant 3cmc might just be low enough to have this kind of effect on an easily recurrable creature Vulturous Aven Of all the exploit cards, this is the one that is probably the best for this deck. Again its pretty much Sign in Blood but attached to a body with the magical 2 power needed for Reveillark fun Secure the Wastes personally won't be using this as it's a one shot spell but I can def see a world where it would be good Fate Forgotten Slightly more expensive Revoke Existence at instant speed but cheaper Return to Dust, just gives you more freedom when designing your removal suite
i still feel there overall underwhelming. The Aven dude is the only one i am actually going to try out. the last couple sets have just been meh. The deck is already so solid its hard for new card printings to hold a candle imo
Yay new card time. Looks like there might be some actual cards to add this time around. Just the main ones which caught my eye at a glance
Dutiful Attendant 3cmc might just be low enough to have this kind of effect on an easily recurrable creature Vulturous Aven Of all the exploit cards, this is the one that is probably the best for this deck. Again its pretty much Sign in Blood but attached to a body with the magical 2 power needed for Reveillark fun Secure the Wastes personally won't be using this as it's a one shot spell but I can def see a world where it would be good Fate Forgotten Slightly more expensive Revoke Existence at instant speed but cheaper Return to Dust, just gives you more freedom when designing your removal suite
i still feel there overall underwhelming. The Aven dude is the only one i am actually going to try out. the last couple sets have just been meh. The deck is already so solid its hard for new card printings to hold a candle imo
Yeah I agree overall at least my build of the deck is pretty tight so adding new cards requires a damn good reason to cut something, Vulturous Aven will probably slot in over Read the Bones though, the utility of having it on a creature is pretty cool. The others probably won't make the cut.
@DarthXX how could you list those cards from Dragons but forget about one of the best one? Sidisi, Undead Vizier
I would run her over Rune-Scarred Demon in this deck, given the lower cost thus not swinging the overall curve too much, and she's easier to recur then diabolic intent (which I also run in my version)
Anyway, love your primer Schondetta. Been viewing this thread for months without making an account but when I finally did I'd figure I'd post. I may not go by your "personal banlist" since my meta is fairly non-casual and my version evolved from trying to be like yours to pushing towards more dedicated combo. I saw the suggestion above about what to use for a combo version and will certainly take that into account. If I may add, I think that if I were to run Steelshaper's Gift in a deck with only 3 equipments, I might as well add a body to it and drop money for a stoneforge even though I didn't really want to at first.
My other question is how far to push it with the tutors. I run a Bob in my version because my curve is extremely low and I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible, so I'm doubtful on anything at or worse than diabolic tutor (both CMC wise or restriction-wise)
Idyllic is fine since a specific 1 drop black enchantment in particular is very useful (wink wink) but above that I'm not so sure on how to balance tutors with the meat of the deck.
I will post a decklist later if anyone cares, I'm not entirely sure how to do that on this site yet.
Yay new card time. Looks like there might be some actual cards to add this time around. Just the main ones which caught my eye at a glance
Dutiful Attendant 3cmc might just be low enough to have this kind of effect on an easily recurrable creature Vulturous Aven Of all the exploit cards, this is the one that is probably the best for this deck. Again its pretty much Sign in Blood but attached to a body with the magical 2 power needed for Reveillark fun Secure the Wastes personally won't be using this as it's a one shot spell but I can def see a world where it would be good Fate Forgotten Slightly more expensive Revoke Existence at instant speed but cheaper Return to Dust, just gives you more freedom when designing your removal suite
i still feel there overall underwhelming. The Aven dude is the only one i am actually going to try out. the last couple sets have just been meh. The deck is already so solid its hard for new card printings to hold a candle imo
Yeah I agree overall at least my build of the deck is pretty tight so adding new cards requires a damn good reason to cut something, Vulturous Aven will probably slot in over Read the Bones though, the utility of having it on a creature is pretty cool. The others probably won't make the cut.
yeah thats a actual a pretty good trade off. bones for the aven im going to go ahead and test with that. great suggestion
@DarthXX how could you list those cards from Dragons but forget about one of the best one? Sidisi, Undead Vizier
I would run her over Rune-Scarred Demon in this deck, given the lower cost thus not swinging the overall curve too much, and she's easier to recur then diabolic intent (which I also run in my version)
Anyway, love your primer Schondetta. Been viewing this thread for months without making an account but when I finally did I'd figure I'd post. I may not go by your "personal banlist" since my meta is fairly non-casual and my version evolved from trying to be like yours to pushing towards more dedicated combo. I saw the suggestion above about what to use for a combo version and will certainly take that into account. If I may add, I think that if I were to run Steelshaper's Gift in a deck with only 3 equipments, I might as well add a body to it and drop money for a stoneforge even though I didn't really want to at first.
My other question is how far to push it with the tutors. I run a Bob in my version because my curve is extremely low and I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible, so I'm doubtful on anything at or worse than diabolic tutor (both CMC wise or restriction-wise)
Idyllic is fine since a specific 1 drop black enchantment in particular is very useful (wink wink) but above that I'm not so sure on how to balance tutors with the meat of the deck.
I will post a decklist later if anyone cares, I'm not entirely sure how to do that on this site yet.
thanks for stopping by glad you like it!
regarding your tutor question. of course demonic and vampiric are the best ones. diabolic intent is one that may not be on my list but i bring it in and out every once in awhile. i try to keep the hard tutors relatively low because they make the deck play too ummm monotonous like if i always open the game with one i always get the same thing. i guess it would be another one of my personal handicaps but i would say 4 hard tutors max is reasonable you know to maybe get that missing engine piece and get the rest of the deck going. But i dont judge people for running more since thats one of Blacks strongest qualities.
btw any reason why Volrath's Stronghold is not in your deck? Do you think its worth looking into for a combo focused deck?
didnt really work that great in testing. there is enough effects that put the creatures on the field why go through all the trouble of moving the permanent from the top of the library to the field. Also very hard to keep in colorless lands
I've been using a budgeted version of this deck, ever since I saw the TCC video on it.
A couple of things I was wondering about:
Is the Instant speed and cheaper cost, of Secure the Wastes not preferred to Martial Coup's wrath effect?
Also how have the tests of the new cards you mentioned trying out from the recent block gone? Anything that seems worth adding?
martial coup is primarily a wrath with the awesome side effect of making tokens, not the other way around. instant speed doesnt really mean too much in this deck when the rest of the deck is for the most part doing things at sorcery speed. its strength lies in the overwhelming synergies of the cards.
other than Vulturous Aven for read the bones there isnt really much to change from the lastcouple sets. like i have mentioned before the list is so welled oiled and tight its hard to make any cuts anymore, the standard is high . I occasionally cut a card here or there for something else just on a whim but nothing permanent not worth noting in the primer
Which other pieces would you consider the most important to get after (or before) these?
I have no issues with doing broken combo things considering one of the guys in my group plays a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed in it, and there are plenty of people who run blue to counter.
I do recall you said that the mana base is the first place to start with upgrading, but since I'm missing some extremely useful parts like the Altar, I'm unsure if that's still applicable since the mana base seems to be working OK for now.
Thanks for this primer, and the tips you give out throughout the comments.
This deck has become my baby now, and once I've got the rest of the pieces I'm wanting for it I'm going to be saving for my first altered card, Teysa, because I love it so much.
EDIT: Just noticed a small error in the number of lands in the list you have on the OP, there's 35 lands in there not 34 as the heading says
What's everyone's opinion on Elspeth and Sorin in this deck? I've cut them from my list because it doesn't seem like they do enough. I'd rather have Grand Abolisher in their place in order to keep the combo safe, or a crypt ghast for the extra mana from the swamps/urborg.
I run Elspeth, Sun's Champion in my Teysa build. She might as well read "+1: Exile target creature." And I run Sorin, Lord of Innistrad because I can always use more black tokens/chump blockers/sac fodder. But I run a comboless Teysa, so it might be different in a combo-based deck.
Please forgive me if this has already been clarified, I'm at work (digital slacking lol) and dont have time to comb through all of the comments. I notice that you are running 99 cards in your list including Teysa, Orzhov Scion. So eithor your using a different general like Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts or you're down a card. Im probably just not seeing something but whats goin on?
Im thinking knight errant becomes suns champion and lord of innistrad becomes solemn visitor for my version.
Suns Champ is overall better, in my deck and opinion, but I still run Lord of Innistrad. I like having a +1 that interacts positively with Teysa rather than Solemn Visitor's -2. But I rarely win through combat damage, so perhaps Solemn's +1 is better in combat-oriented builds.
I used to run a 1v1 Teysa back in the day. I ended up scraping her because I found she floureshed more in multiplayer then duals. Im now in the market for a multiplayer deck and am going to dust her off and bring her back. Maybe it was bacause it was duals but i found a 1/1 lifelink SO underwhelming. Considering your Sorin is most likely only going to stick around for 1 or 2 turns reliably, i would rather make a couple 2/2 flyers then a couple 1/1 lifelinkers. However I'm new to the multiplayer scene and maybe the logic that sorin will only stick around 1-2 turns doesnt apply here.
Please forgive me if this has already been clarified, I'm at work (digital slacking lol) and dont have time to comb through all of the comments. I notice that you are running 99 cards in your list including Teysa, Orzhov Scion. So eithor your using a different general like Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts or you're down a card. Im probably just not seeing something but whats goin on?
I used to run a 1v1 Teysa back in the day. I ended up scraping her because I found she floureshed more in multiplayer then duals. Im now in the market for a multiplayer deck and am going to dust her off and bring her back. Maybe it was bacause it was duals but i found a 1/1 lifelink SO underwhelming. Considering your Sorin is most likely only going to stick around for 1 or 2 turns reliably, i would rather make a couple 2/2 flyers then a couple 1/1 lifelinkers. However I'm new to the multiplayer scene and maybe the logic that sorin will only stick around 1-2 turns doesnt apply here.
your field is usually clumpy enough to where he doesn't die from combat and less threatening as a card to where at least my group doesnt care about it too much.
New card time! As said before the lists are mostly pretty tight. Unlike the last set though this has at some potential candidates for inclusion, although they are mostly side-grades
Despoiler of Souls - exiling creatures is not really where you wanna be, but it is a recursive creature that is somewhat aggro - would consider running this in a 1v1 list over more durdley versions that only have 1 power. Kothophed, Soul Hoarder - seems solid, would run it in a big mana version of the deck along with stuff like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite etc Liliana, Heretical Healer - the real consideration for inclusion in this set. She produces a token and then flips herself into the PW side, this is already good, like an alternate version of Xathrid Necromancer. The flipped side has great utility especially in the small version of this deck as it lets you recur prety much any creature in your GY. Or if you are in the staxing part of the game it keeps hand sizes down. I will definitely be giving this a shot, probably in the Xathrid Necromancer slot of the deck and see how it plays out. Priest of the Blood Rite - black card that makes black tokens always worth mentioning. This guy passes the Reveillark test so he has that going for him, though the large token size is not really that relevant in most situation but I can see him being good in a more budget version of this deck. Shadows of the Past - along with Liliana, Heretical Healer I think this card might just be good enough to make it. It a cheap enchantment that provides a large amount of deck control which is important if you are playing a heavilty combo version of the deck. It almost like a second copy of Viscera Seer but it does lack the sac outlet capability. On the other hand it is much harder to remove as an enchantment and it doubles as a kill condition with infinite mana or just a generic mana dump if the game goes long, giving a good amount of inevitability. Will try this one out also, but not sure what I will cut for it. Important thing to remember is that this triggers whenever any creature dies, not just yours
In terms of the above Sorin discussion, In the multiplayer list I would run Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, the 1/1 guys are black tokens which is mostly what you are after, size is less important, plus you can always drop out unremoveable anthems which might be relevant at a later time. I would run Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the 1v1 version of the deck since 1v1 is much more Aggro-Combo focused and the damage race can be a real thing, so the lifelink anthem effect is actually useful.
That's what I currently play. I'm fairly certain there are no infinite combos; if there are, they're unintentional. It is really difficult to avoid infinite combos with Teysa, she just works with so much. I know the deck could be tuned further, but this is what I have that is not being used in other decks. The land-base could be expanded on with some more W/B producing lands, as well as a Cabal Coffers for sure. If I had a spare Sadistic Hypnotist he would make it in as well. Pontiff of Blight is one I've been pondering its effectiveness, so that would be a good card to test out. I have a spare Stoneforge Mystic laying around that might make it in. I know the vast importance of skullclamp, but I don't like adding in 1 card just to tutor 1 specific card. For the most part, my meta isn't too terribly competitive, and I enjoy more fun/interesting playstyles over cutthroat ones, which is why my focus is aiming more towards my Barrin, Master Wizard deck right now. I think this Teysa deck will be turned into a Tiny Leaders variation.
Without combo to aim for, I would focus on the token producers to either swing in for damage (Cathars' Crusade), whittle your opponents down (Blood Artist), or control the board (everything else in the deck). My version is not a very quick-win deck, but there are a lot of synergies to play around with. I find that fun, and that's the reason I play.
I hope this helped a little bit towards your non-combo version. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!!
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LegacyUBRDelverRBU
If this new Liliana is not perfect for this deck I don't know what is She's on theme for just abour every aspect of what we're trying to accomplish, amazing!
3 cmc (Sun Titan)
2 power (Reveillark)
Human (Xathrid Necromancer)
Lifelink has synergy with gameplan
Black for Teysa tokens
Creates black token
Recursion at 3 cmc or less
Emblem has perfect synergy with the deck
Wow.
I'll get a foil one for sure.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
I feel like there is some kind of hidden combo with this card some crazy thing idk lol defiantly going to give it a try. in love with the art and the aesthetic
alsoa cleric for Rotlung Reanimator
She seems actually liek she could be very strong. The main interaction I like with her is Reveillark. In a loop you can go infinite bringing her out, saccing a creature, flipping and the -X=3 to get a 3CMC creature out of the yard, putting her back into the GY (as a creature) which lets you reanimate her with Reveillark and do it all again. Outside of going infinite, which I'm sure there are more ways to go infinite with her she has a lot of utility as a black creature which lets you generate a token at a 3 drop, not much different to Xathrid Necromancer in this regard. Her planeswalker form allows you to fill your yard with prime discard tagets if you need to, or alternatively just pick up any essential combo piece you need from your GY (most of which are 3CMC Or less anyway) and then go to town.
I think none of these FRF cards are really worth putting into the deck.
Palace Siege there are much better, cheaper effects which are the same or similar - Oversold Cemetery, Phyrexian Reclaimation, Decaying Soil
Merciless Executioner okay this one I guess, I already got a Fleshbag Marauder in foil but this guy has marginal tribal upside.
Orc Sureshot very expensive and there is better. If you want this effect you would be much better running Phyrexian Overlord
Qarsi High Priest taps to sac, boo
Archfiend of Depravity super expensive, I think ud be better off just running a wrath
Crux of Fate a decent wrath but we have access to white, which has the decentest wraths
Harsh Sustenance not bad but it is just a one shot thing which I'm not a fan of. We can't recur instants/sorceries and if you are making infinite tokens or enough to kill with, then you probably dont need this to help and it's just winmore
Valorous Stance much better spot removal in white. Protection is marginal with how much recursion is run in the deck. Plus there will be many times where this is much less useful than you first imagine, people run lots of tuck and exile effects which negate a lot of usefulness of that half of the card
Mastery of the Unseen too expensive for what it does imo, as you said the creatures are colourless making them much less useful. I think its better to just go Luminarch Ascension, Mobilization, Sacred Mesa if you need this kind of effect as those guys have colours and cheaper activation costs.
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Dutiful Attendant 3cmc might just be low enough to have this kind of effect on an easily recurrable creature
Vulturous Aven Of all the exploit cards, this is the one that is probably the best for this deck. Again its pretty much Sign in Blood but attached to a body with the magical 2 power needed for Reveillark fun
Secure the Wastes personally won't be using this as it's a one shot spell but I can def see a world where it would be good
Fate Forgotten Slightly more expensive Revoke Existence at instant speed but cheaper Return to Dust, just gives you more freedom when designing your removal suite
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
i still feel there overall underwhelming. The Aven dude is the only one i am actually going to try out. the last couple sets have just been meh. The deck is already so solid its hard for new card printings to hold a candle imo
Yeah I agree overall at least my build of the deck is pretty tight so adding new cards requires a damn good reason to cut something, Vulturous Aven will probably slot in over Read the Bones though, the utility of having it on a creature is pretty cool. The others probably won't make the cut.
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
I would run her over Rune-Scarred Demon in this deck, given the lower cost thus not swinging the overall curve too much, and she's easier to recur then diabolic intent (which I also run in my version)
Anyway, love your primer Schondetta. Been viewing this thread for months without making an account but when I finally did I'd figure I'd post. I may not go by your "personal banlist" since my meta is fairly non-casual and my version evolved from trying to be like yours to pushing towards more dedicated combo. I saw the suggestion above about what to use for a combo version and will certainly take that into account. If I may add, I think that if I were to run Steelshaper's Gift in a deck with only 3 equipments, I might as well add a body to it and drop money for a stoneforge even though I didn't really want to at first.
My other question is how far to push it with the tutors. I run a Bob in my version because my curve is extremely low and I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible, so I'm doubtful on anything at or worse than diabolic tutor (both CMC wise or restriction-wise)
Idyllic is fine since a specific 1 drop black enchantment in particular is very useful (wink wink) but above that I'm not so sure on how to balance tutors with the meat of the deck.
I will post a decklist later if anyone cares, I'm not entirely sure how to do that on this site yet.
yeah thats a actual a pretty good trade off. bones for the aven im going to go ahead and test with that. great suggestion
thanks for stopping by glad you like it!
regarding your tutor question. of course demonic and vampiric are the best ones. diabolic intent is one that may not be on my list but i bring it in and out every once in awhile. i try to keep the hard tutors relatively low because they make the deck play too ummm monotonous like if i always open the game with one i always get the same thing. i guess it would be another one of my personal handicaps but i would say 4 hard tutors max is reasonable you know to maybe get that missing engine piece and get the rest of the deck going. But i dont judge people for running more since thats one of Blacks strongest qualities.
1 Ancient Tomb
5 Swamp
7 Plains
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Strip Mine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Kor Haven
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Scrubland
1 Tainted Field
1 Godless Shrine
1 High Market
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Reveillark
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Reliquary Monk
1 Sengir Autocrat
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Nether Traitor
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Dark Confidant
1 Blood Artist
1 Mother of Runes
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Karmic Guide
1 Suture Priest
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Twilight Drover
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Viscera Seer
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Bloodghast
1 Thoughtpicker Witch
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Sun Titan
1 Academy Rector
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Expedition Map
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Sol Ring
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Skullclamp
1 Tragic Slip
1 Shred Memory
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Return to Dust
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Terminus
1 Reanimate
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Martial Coup
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Unearth
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Living Death
1 Damnation
1 Aura of Silence
1 Animate Dead
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Grave Pact
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Bitterblossom
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Darkest Hour
This is what I've considered adding in the past or just recently thought about adding. Haven't gone through the deck in earnest yet to see what I can cut for them, but if anyone has suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
Altar of Dementia
Dimir Machinations
Grand Abolisher
Buried Alive
Wake the Dead
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Entomb
Stoneforge Mystic
Bitter Ordeal
Also, Liliana from Magic Origins of course
btw any reason why Volrath's Stronghold is not in your deck? Do you think its worth looking into for a combo focused deck?
A couple of things I was wondering about:
Is the Instant speed and cheaper cost, of Secure the Wastes not preferred to Martial Coup's wrath effect?
Also how have the tests of the new cards you mentioned trying out from the recent block gone? Anything that seems worth adding?
didnt really work that great in testing. there is enough effects that put the creatures on the field why go through all the trouble of moving the permanent from the top of the library to the field. Also very hard to keep in colorless lands
martial coup is primarily a wrath with the awesome side effect of making tokens, not the other way around. instant speed doesnt really mean too much in this deck when the rest of the deck is for the most part doing things at sorcery speed. its strength lies in the overwhelming synergies of the cards.
other than Vulturous Aven for read the bones there isnt really much to change from the lastcouple sets. like i have mentioned before the list is so welled oiled and tight its hard to make any cuts anymore, the standard is high . I occasionally cut a card here or there for something else just on a whim but nothing permanent not worth noting in the primer
My current list is
Land (36)
1x Barren Moor
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Buried Ruin
1x Caves of Koilos
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Opal Palace
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Orzhov Guildgate
6x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Salt Flats
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Springjack Pasture
8x Swamp
1x Tainted Field
1x Temple of Silence
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Vault of the Archangel
Artifact (11)
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Blasting Station
1x Commander's Sphere
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Meekstone
1x Nim Deathmantle
1x Orzhov Keyrune
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Skullclamp
1x Smokestack
1x Sol Ring
1x Blood Artist
1x Bloodghast
1x Cartel Aristocrat
1x Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1x Grim Haruspex
1x Karmic Guide
1x Marsh Flitter
1x Mentor of the Meek
1x Necrotic Sliver
1x Nether Traitor
1x Ogre Slumlord
1x Ophiomancer
1x Pawn of Ulamog
1x Pontiff of Blight
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Reveillark
1x Rotlung Reanimator
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
1x Sengir Autocrat
1x Serra Ascendant
1x Skirsdag High Priest
1x Soul Warden
1x Suture Priest
1x Twilight Drover
1x Viscera Seer
1x Vizkopa Guildmage
1x Vulturous Aven
1x Xathrid Necromancer
Sorcery (11)
1x Buried Alive
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Lingering Souls
1x Martial Coup
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Read the Bones
1x Reanimate
1x Retribution of the Meek
1x Return to the Ranks
1x Unearth
1x Carnival of Souls
1x Dark Prophecy
1x Darkest Hour
1x Martyr's Bond
1x Spirit Bonds
1x Zombie Infestation
Instant (5)
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Faith's Reward
1x Plunge into Darkness
1x Return to Dust
1x Utter End
Planeswalker (2)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Due to budget limitations. What order would you consider the best way to go in terms of upgrading?
I'm planning to grab a Steelshaper's Gift to replace the Stoneforge Mystic, and get the following at some point:
Phyrexian Altar
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Grave Pact
Which other pieces would you consider the most important to get after (or before) these?
I have no issues with doing broken combo things considering one of the guys in my group plays a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed in it, and there are plenty of people who run blue to counter.
I do recall you said that the mana base is the first place to start with upgrading, but since I'm missing some extremely useful parts like the Altar, I'm unsure if that's still applicable since the mana base seems to be working OK for now.
Thanks for this primer, and the tips you give out throughout the comments.
This deck has become my baby now, and once I've got the rest of the pieces I'm wanting for it I'm going to be saving for my first altered card, Teysa, because I love it so much.
EDIT: Just noticed a small error in the number of lands in the list you have on the OP, there's 35 lands in there not 34 as the heading says
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Suns Champ is overall better, in my deck and opinion, but I still run Lord of Innistrad. I like having a +1 that interacts positively with Teysa rather than Solemn Visitor's -2. But I rarely win through combat damage, so perhaps Solemn's +1 is better in combat-oriented builds.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
theirs actually 35 lands the summation is wrong
your field is usually clumpy enough to where he doesn't die from combat and less threatening as a card to where at least my group doesnt care about it too much.
Despoiler of Souls - exiling creatures is not really where you wanna be, but it is a recursive creature that is somewhat aggro - would consider running this in a 1v1 list over more durdley versions that only have 1 power.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder - seems solid, would run it in a big mana version of the deck along with stuff like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite etc
Liliana, Heretical Healer - the real consideration for inclusion in this set. She produces a token and then flips herself into the PW side, this is already good, like an alternate version of Xathrid Necromancer. The flipped side has great utility especially in the small version of this deck as it lets you recur prety much any creature in your GY. Or if you are in the staxing part of the game it keeps hand sizes down. I will definitely be giving this a shot, probably in the Xathrid Necromancer slot of the deck and see how it plays out.
Priest of the Blood Rite - black card that makes black tokens always worth mentioning. This guy passes the Reveillark test so he has that going for him, though the large token size is not really that relevant in most situation but I can see him being good in a more budget version of this deck.
Shadows of the Past - along with Liliana, Heretical Healer I think this card might just be good enough to make it. It a cheap enchantment that provides a large amount of deck control which is important if you are playing a heavilty combo version of the deck. It almost like a second copy of Viscera Seer but it does lack the sac outlet capability. On the other hand it is much harder to remove as an enchantment and it doubles as a kill condition with infinite mana or just a generic mana dump if the game goes long, giving a good amount of inevitability. Will try this one out also, but not sure what I will cut for it. Important thing to remember is that this triggers whenever any creature dies, not just yours
In terms of the above Sorin discussion, In the multiplayer list I would run Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, the 1/1 guys are black tokens which is mostly what you are after, size is less important, plus you can always drop out unremoveable anthems which might be relevant at a later time. I would run Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the 1v1 version of the deck since 1v1 is much more Aggro-Combo focused and the damage race can be a real thing, so the lifelink anthem effect is actually useful.
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
In my duelcommander Marchesa deck i use Carrion Feeder and Flesh Carver as effective sac outlets. Bloodflow Connoisseur also finds its way in and out of the list.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Or if anyone else has one (I am thinking running a very similar list minus the artifact sac mana generators)
Deckbox tradelist/for sale
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3 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
Creatures (28)
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Soul Warden
1 Viscera Seer
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloodghast
2 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Nether Traitor
2 Reassembling Skeleton
2 Suture Priest
3 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Mentor of the Meek
3 Mirror Entity
3 Necrotic Sliver
3 Ophiomancer
3 Twilight Drover
3 Xathrid Necromancer
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Marsh Flitter
4 Sengir Autocrat
5 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
5 Ogre Slumlord
5 Phyrexian Plaguelord
5 Reveillark
6 Grave Titan
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Requiem Angel
6 Sun Titan
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Orzhov Signet
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Orzhov Keyrune
Sorceries (10)
1 Reanimate
1 Unearth
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Martial Coup
3 Buried Alive
3 Read the Bones
3 Victimize
4 Debt to the Deathless
4 Dread Return
5 Unburial Rites
Instants (6)
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Plunge Into Darkness
4 Faith's Reward
4 Return to Dust
4 Utter End
Enchantments (8)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
2 Spirit Bonds
3 Attrition
3 Fanatical Devotion
3 Martyr's Cause
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave Pact
5 Cathars' Crusade
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
6 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Lands (38)
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Scoured Barrens
1 Scrubland
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Verdant Catacombs
9 Plains
12 Swamp
That's what I currently play. I'm fairly certain there are no infinite combos; if there are, they're unintentional. It is really difficult to avoid infinite combos with Teysa, she just works with so much. I know the deck could be tuned further, but this is what I have that is not being used in other decks. The land-base could be expanded on with some more W/B producing lands, as well as a Cabal Coffers for sure. If I had a spare Sadistic Hypnotist he would make it in as well. Pontiff of Blight is one I've been pondering its effectiveness, so that would be a good card to test out. I have a spare Stoneforge Mystic laying around that might make it in. I know the vast importance of skullclamp, but I don't like adding in 1 card just to tutor 1 specific card. For the most part, my meta isn't too terribly competitive, and I enjoy more fun/interesting playstyles over cutthroat ones, which is why my focus is aiming more towards my Barrin, Master Wizard deck right now. I think this Teysa deck will be turned into a Tiny Leaders variation.
Without combo to aim for, I would focus on the token producers to either swing in for damage (Cathars' Crusade), whittle your opponents down (Blood Artist), or control the board (everything else in the deck). My version is not a very quick-win deck, but there are a lot of synergies to play around with. I find that fun, and that's the reason I play.
I hope this helped a little bit towards your non-combo version. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!!