gonna warn you abotu Carnival. I was running it for a little while and it's pretty good, but also super volatile. It sucks to drop it, do a bunch of stuff, not win, then have your opponent drop a Avenger of Zendikar or something else horrible and 20 you. It's an awesome card, but I ended up cutting it after losing several games to it's effects.
Another thought on the Ophiomancer: Viscera Seer. Sure, I'll scry 1 and put a 1/1 spirit into play each turn. That card has been an alstar in my deck. Works stupid well if you also happen to have a Twilight Drover out.
- leaving the deck Blistergrub ended up not doing too much .out-technologied by other cards Braids, Cabal Minion want to eventually stray from the stax package. however smokestack is way more brutal to other decks without hurting Teysa too much so that stays also Gods are dumb Crypt Ghast only really in for the extort not enough swamps are ran for his other effect. replaced with lower cost extort card/s Fleshbag Marauder running two pact effects now making him obsolete .still plenty of other ways to deal with creatures Kokusho, the Evening Star sad to cut this because hes so good with deathmantle might bring him back in but he keeps being used against me to often / meta call Obzedat's Aid too clunky dont need any permanents that badly Cathars' Crusade alt win con. want to cut on hybrid strategies like with braids and too much enchantments Wrath of God plenty of other ways to kll creatures . retribution of the meek and martial coupdo the deck better .dont need 3 wraths Orzhov Cluestone - clunky mana rock. replaced with better rocks Spawning Pit - might make it back in soon but i havent used it very much recently so w/e that means plains - replaced with temple of silence Marshal's Anthem - too clunky and mana heavy .dont care about the anthem part Oversold Cemetery - dont care enough for any of the creature to be brought back. too slow
- entering the deck Ophiomancer - 3 mana bitterblossom with drawback easily negated + black tokens Tithe Drinker - mainly here for the extort but has extreme upside of being both black and white Read the Bones - my original concern with the deck is the draw speed outside of skullclamp this smooths things out when you cant clamp + low cost Carnival of Souls - very explosive low cost free mana spell. plays nicely with deck . please see combo sections for more info Martyr's Bond - wanted to put this back in due to the meta and everyone playing indestructible 7/6 Gods Zombie Infestation - free black tokens with excess cards in hand.plays well with skullclamp .can also pitch stuff to yard to reanimte etc. Elspeth, Knight-Errant - wanted more systematic token production. and i also dont mind the target now Temple of Silence - better mana fixing for us poor enemy bi-colored decks Plunge into Darkness - umm awesome card draw plus use this with Vizkopa guildmage its essentially another win con for 2 + 3 mana Faith's Reward - deck needs more explosive plays so this went back in. makes deck more unpredictable and thus better Darksteel Ingot - i like the indestructible over the cluestones draw. i know that sounds weird but it works out somehow Everflowing Chalice - wanted to make the deck faster even with an already low curve Mana Vault - same as the chalice. deck just needs an initial early boost into the mid game. this helps with that advantage
i significantly lowered the curve of the deck to around 2.88 (lands included) and made it more explosive all-in-one-turn plays to keep the opponents on there feet.
there is a lot more pain for power(love it) in here i/e carnival of souls, mana vault, Dark Prophecy etc so i up'd the life gain with extort. plunge into darkness etc . this helps the fact that this is highly a player oriented deck that is really good with good players and really bad for bad players (not for new players etc) as stated in the primer. and i love the challenge that cards like carnival and Dark Prophecy bring
Schondetta, why do you use Rotlung Reanimator instead of Xathrid Necromancer? Sure, the zombies from the necromancer comes into play tapped, but you have only 3 clerics in your deck compared to 10 humans.
Schondetta, why do you use Rotlung Reanimator instead of Xathrid Necromancer? Sure, the zombies from the necromancer comes into play tapped, but you have only 3 clerics in your deck compared to 10 humans.
its actually supposed to be a Necromancer . i had one in there instead of the rotlung but i dropped the card in the toilet so rotlung is in there unitl i get a new another Necormander. i dont want to post a decklist that im not 100% running but you are right on him being better. i want to make room for both.
And Carnival of Souls has been very good in this deck? I'm thinking of run with it
tks
Ogre SLumlord is in the deck cuurently! hes great . well worth the 5 mana nad he is pretty much wrath insurance. oh and black creature tokens is a big plus.
i tried straying from creatures that cost more than 4 and unfortunately belfry spirit wasnt cutting it. Xathrid Necromancer should be where ROtlung REanimator is i havent come across one though but when i do i might just run both.
yea carnival of souls is amazing. very explosive and i wouldn't suggest playing it beyond your turn or too late in the game at least with an soul warden of sorts. you can essentially "go off" with Carnival, altar, skullclamp and Zombie infestation. i would suggest checking out the combo and synergy section where i note some of the craziness this 2 mana card entails
Nice set of removals, I've run most of the cards on that list at some time or other and have removed them from my deck too, with the exception of Cathars' Crusade. I've cut all the anthem effects from my deck except for this one simply because it is absurdly easy to make a few spirits into 10/10s and kill the table the turn this card comes down. Outside of that, I replaced Sun Titan with Twilight Shepherd, since they both get similar amounts of value but Twilight Shepherd has the added bonus of going infinite with Cathars' Crusade
As for the includes not a huge fan of a few. Tithe Drinker Does too little imo while it is nice that it is BW I think there are better creatures you can include, 1 extort trigger doesn't seem worth it esp with trying to keep a tight curve Zombie Infestation I used to run this card and while it was okay, most of the time if I had 20+cards to discard to this thing I was going to win anyway. Felt very winmore. Darksteel Ingot Not a fan of the 3 mana rocks in a low curve deck like this Plunge into Darkness Also tried this card in my deck, its pretty awkward, it lets you dig deep but only gets you 1 card you are looking for, gaining large amounts of life wasn't a big enough impact. As a sac engine I would always rather have Carrion Feeder or Viscera Seer, for card drawing I would rather run Skeletal Scrying and lifegain combos for Vizkopa Guildmage I'd rather have like Suture Priest, Soul Warden or Blood Artist and friends. It has nice versatility but I just ultimately found that the versatility made came at the cost of power just pushing it below playability, at least in my version of the deck.
I've been running Ophiomancer since it came out and it is an absolute house, well worth the inclusion. I replaced Xathrid Necromancer for it since my human count was significantly lower than it used to be due to deck changes. I've been keeping an eye out for Carnival of Souls and Martyr's Bond and plan to include them if I can ever find a copy
Since BNG I've been making some changes to my version of the deck.
I've been considering removing Ogre Slumlord from the deck, although its a tough call since he gives so much value making black tokens. However I'm not sure it's worth it as him being a creature means he dies extremely easy. I've been running him with Field of Souls and I think that the hit you take only getting white tokens is worth it being on a much harder to remove enchantment. But still not sure, might just keep both in.
I also replaced some of the higher cost sac engines with cheaper ones, most of the time the sac effect is not important, you just need to put things into the graveyard. Sadistic Hypnotist has a very powerful effect but I found the sorcery speed to be a significant hindrance more often than not. Maw of the Obzedat while a powerful effect I felt did not do enough for his mana cost. The problem I have with him is that a lot of the sac fodder comes from turning your creatures into other creatures so by the time you sac enough to pump up your token swarm, most of them probably have summoning sickness. There were also fringe cases where he made playing with Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder difficult since he is a Thrull.
I've added both Ethersworn Canonist and Spirit of the Labyrinth. It's very easy for me to sac them on my turn and play out my spells then recur them at the end to make life more difficult for other players. Although these are mostly a meta call, most decks around here are UGx decks with Prophet of Kruphix everywhere
I'm also trying out Phyrexian Delver as an alternate way to go infinite with Karmic Guide, although this requires a few more pieces of lifegain but so far he has been pretty good.
Other cards I'm considering adding are Gwyllion Hedge-Mage, seems strong in a Reveillark loop. Myr Retriever, mainly to recur Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar which are by far the best sac engines and also Skullclamp. There is Treasure Hunter but I think costing 1 is more significant than being a white creature. Reliquary Monk, I only recently discovered this card and it seems pretty easy to get value off of this, atm I've got Seal of Cleansing which can sometimes get value with Auramancer Mortify is getting replaced with Disenchant. Most of the time this was hitting enchantments anyway, I don't have issues dealing with creatures. I pack a fair bit of artifact/enchantment removal because of my meta Ad Nauseam, considering for extra card draw, plus you can occasionally draw your deck if you manage to go infinite on life but lack any wincons. Eldrazi Monument is def coming out, have not been impressed enough by this card each time I've played it.
I've also taken out Twilight Drover I found him just a bit too mana intensive, when he was good he was awesome but other times he was just a 1/1 for 3. Might add him back in the future though
I strongly urge you to play both the Doomed Necromancer and his Apprentice. They combo with Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Phyrexian Delver, Reveillark, and each other. With Teysa in play, they generate tokens each turn.
Additionally, have you seen Gift of Immortality? That card has insane value in this deck.
Try out a Ranger of Eos package with Carrion Feeder and Gravecrawler as well.
Here's a link to my list on tappedout. It is a French 1v1 list (that's why it runs Painter's servant and recurring nightmare). I don't have it built in paper yet but I think it is insanely quick and powerful. Cards that I would consider changing are Dimir House Guard, Insidious Dreams, Ogre Slumlord, Requiem Angel. You all can check the maybeboard for things I'm considering. I run a lot of combos that have been previously mentioned in the thread but I'd be happy to comment on any of my card choices or cards that I do not currently play.
I strongly urge you to play both the Doomed Necromancer and his Apprentice. They combo with Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Phyrexian Delver, Reveillark, and each other. With Teysa in play, they generate tokens each turn.
Additionally, have you seen Gift of Immortality? That card has insane value in this deck.
Try out a Ranger of Eos package with Carrion Feeder and Gravecrawler as well.
i actually play Gift of Immortality i dont know why its not on the list must have miss counted a land or something. but yeah i agree it does have insane value.Ranger of Eos might not be bad. the lsit is really tight but when i feel like changing things up ill keep him in mind
Nice set of removals, I've run most of the cards on that list at some time or other and have removed them from my deck too, with the exception of Cathars' Crusade. I've cut all the anthem effects from my deck except for this one simply because it is absurdly easy to make a few spirits into 10/10s and kill the table the turn this card comes down. Outside of that, I replaced Sun Titan with Twilight Shepherd, since they both get similar amounts of value but Twilight Shepherd has the added bonus of going infinite with Cathars' Crusade
As for the includes not a huge fan of a few. Tithe Drinker Does too little imo while it is nice that it is BW I think there are better creatures you can include, 1 extort trigger doesn't seem worth it esp with trying to keep a tight curve Zombie Infestation I used to run this card and while it was okay, most of the time if I had 20+cards to discard to this thing I was going to win anyway. Felt very winmore. Darksteel Ingot Not a fan of the 3 mana rocks in a low curve deck like this Plunge into Darkness Also tried this card in my deck, its pretty awkward, it lets you dig deep but only gets you 1 card you are looking for, gaining large amounts of life wasn't a big enough impact. As a sac engine I would always rather have Carrion Feeder or Viscera Seer, for card drawing I would rather run Skeletal Scrying and lifegain combos for Vizkopa Guildmage I'd rather have like Suture Priest, Soul Warden or Blood Artist and friends. It has nice versatility but I just ultimately found that the versatility made came at the cost of power just pushing it below playability, at least in my version of the deck.
I've been running Ophiomancer since it came out and it is an absolute house, well worth the inclusion. I replaced Xathrid Necromancer for it since my human count was significantly lower than it used to be due to deck changes. I've been keeping an eye out for Carnival of Souls and Martyr's Bond and plan to include them if I can ever find a copy
Since BNG I've been making some changes to my version of the deck.
I've been considering removing Ogre Slumlord from the deck, although its a tough call since he gives so much value making black tokens. However I'm not sure it's worth it as him being a creature means he dies extremely easy. I've been running him with Field of Souls and I think that the hit you take only getting white tokens is worth it being on a much harder to remove enchantment. But still not sure, might just keep both in.
I also replaced some of the higher cost sac engines with cheaper ones, most of the time the sac effect is not important, you just need to put things into the graveyard. Sadistic Hypnotist has a very powerful effect but I found the sorcery speed to be a significant hindrance more often than not. Maw of the Obzedat while a powerful effect I felt did not do enough for his mana cost. The problem I have with him is that a lot of the sac fodder comes from turning your creatures into other creatures so by the time you sac enough to pump up your token swarm, most of them probably have summoning sickness. There were also fringe cases where he made playing with Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder difficult since he is a Thrull.
I've added both Ethersworn Canonist and Spirit of the Labyrinth. It's very easy for me to sac them on my turn and play out my spells then recur them at the end to make life more difficult for other players. Although these are mostly a meta call, most decks around here are UGx decks with Prophet of Kruphix everywhere
I'm also trying out Phyrexian Delver as an alternate way to go infinite with Karmic Guide, although this requires a few more pieces of lifegain but so far he has been pretty good.
Other cards I'm considering adding are Gwyllion Hedge-Mage, seems strong in a Reveillark loop. Myr Retriever, mainly to recur Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar which are by far the best sac engines and also Skullclamp. There is Treasure Hunter but I think costing 1 is more significant than being a white creature. Reliquary Monk, I only recently discovered this card and it seems pretty easy to get value off of this, atm I've got Seal of Cleansing which can sometimes get value with Auramancer Mortify is getting replaced with Disenchant. Most of the time this was hitting enchantments anyway, I don't have issues dealing with creatures. I pack a fair bit of artifact/enchantment removal because of my meta Ad Nauseam, considering for extra card draw, plus you can occasionally draw your deck if you manage to go infinite on life but lack any wincons. Eldrazi Monument is def coming out, have not been impressed enough by this card each time I've played it.
I've also taken out Twilight Drover I found him just a bit too mana intensive, when he was good he was awesome but other times he was just a 1/1 for 3. Might add him back in the future though
i still love Ogre Slumlord. SPot removal is far and between in my meta and more than likely he is not the biggest threat .hes just always been good to me
Zombie Infestation is really explosive when you set it up with skullclamp and an altar. i would check out the combo section for more details on that but it does a lot of work for 2 mana
i still have respect for Cathar's Crusade. honestly i was jsut tired of keeping track of the +1 counters it was WAY to messy for me and unenjoyable plus like i stated above i wanted to take out alt win cons but still its powerful nonetheless
i agree on the 3 cost rocks. i would run the mox's, diamond / opal etc if they were not ridiculously overpriced Vizkopa guildmage and plunge although is a one trick pony. still wraps the game up extremely quickly. plunge provides an instant speed sac out let with an additional bonus. its been good and does lot of work for 2-3 mana. i did play around with your list and its got a good feel like mine. thanks for the feedback!
Here's a link to my list on tappedout. It is a French 1v1 list (that's why it runs Painter's servant and recurring nightmare). I don't have it built in paper yet but I think it is insanely quick and powerful. Cards that I would consider changing are Dimir House Guard, Insidious Dreams, Ogre Slumlord, Requiem Angel. You all can check the maybeboard for things I'm considering. I run a lot of combos that have been previously mentioned in the thread but I'd be happy to comment on any of my card choices or cards that I do not currently play.
Requiem angel i cut awhile ago it was too big and clumsy and didnt really need the effect that badly. win more i guess
the Hero fo blade hold and Knight-Captain of Eos feel a little out of place but i understand if you want to go a more swingy route. than there deal breakers.
i would also suggest Diabolic Intent as an additional low cost tutor since your list is more combo oriented and maybe even a Idyllic Tutor !
Been looking to make a rock deck work, and I am quite intrigued by this one. I was hoping to ask a few questions before I started picking up the parts.
1). Can the deck still work, if things like Blood Artist/ect get exiled? Exile/tuck is an unfortunate common thing in my group, primarily for MW with a genesis engines, I am curious how well the deck can do if the life engine get's disabled.
2). While there are certain upsides to DP over Necropotence, has the mandatory draw and life loss ended up biting you in the butt?
3). Have you considered running a few bigger end creatures like Ashen Rider to go along with some of the reanimation you are running?
Hey Schondetta, still playing this list, still love it, been a ton of fun ^.^
Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!
Hey Schondetta, still playing this list, still love it, been a ton of fun ^.^
Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!
hey thanks! glad your enjoying
ill certainly look into it. seems really good against combo decks. so worth trying out!
Hey Schondetta, still playing this list, still love it, been a ton of fun ^.^ Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!
Just curious, what differences are you running in regards to this list? I'm asking as I run a similiar list.
Another question to the OP, by the way love the list it feels so resilient, if you had to join a super competitive meta what changes might you make. Maybe for a tournament. Thanks!
Hey Schondetta, still playing this list, still love it, been a ton of fun ^.^ Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!
Just curious, what differences are you running in regards to this list? I'm asking as I run a similiar list.
Another question to the OP, by the way love the list it feels so resilient, if you had to join a super competitive meta what changes might you make. Maybe for a tournament. Thanks!
i would defiantly run more tutors. probably Diabolic Intent and Idyllic Tutor. throw in my mana crypt from my other deck . i would switch in Darkest Hour , that being he biggest one.hmmmm living death is pretty clutch. and probably a couple spot removal. Swords to plowshares . and i would NEVER run this card but if i wanted to be super competitive Sorin Markov would be in there as well
I've had this thread favorited for probably close to 6 months if not longer, and I always keep an eye on any changes you figure out. I enjoy using some of the recommendations for my own personal Teysa deck.
That being said, I always look at some other cards too. I try to keep my Teysa deck to a theme, that of my deck being a church. So I only try to use shamans, monks, clerics, and spirits. I do have the small exceptions if they are too good to exclude.
One such cleric that I think you might want to have a look-see at is Doomed Necromancer. It's amazing graveyard recursion, bringing something back to the battlefield. It's black which nets you a spirit. And it combos well with Reveillark. It is also pretty awesome with Sun Titan. But it's something to look towards. I run Rotlung so I have a pretty heavy cleric package, to get the most out of him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decklists currently employed: BUGrimgrin's 3-Ringed CircusUB "Which would you like first? The insult or the injury?" BWNope! Chuck Teysa.WB "By the time your knees have worn through your robe, you may have begun to learn your place..." BGSpoiled Rotten.GB "When something dies, all things benefit. Alright... just our things." UUPrepare for Trouble, And make it DoubleUU "One good mimic deserves another."
I've had this thread favorited for probably close to 6 months if not longer, and I always keep an eye on any changes you figure out. I enjoy using some of the recommendations for my own personal Teysa deck.
That being said, I always look at some other cards too. I try to keep my Teysa deck to a theme, that of my deck being a church. So I only try to use shamans, monks, clerics, and spirits. I do have the small exceptions if they are too good to exclude.
One such cleric that I think you might want to have a look-see at is Doomed Necromancer. It's amazing graveyard recursion, bringing something back to the battlefield. It's black which nets you a spirit. And it combos well with Reveillark. It is also pretty awesome with Sun Titan. But it's something to look towards. I run Rotlung so I have a pretty heavy cleric package, to get the most out of him.
hey thanks for stopping by !
ive played around with Doomed Necromancer before. he is always a possiblity but suall y ended up being a one trick pony. if only he didnt have to tap! yes rotlung i agree is amazing so much i run him and his counter part Xathrid Necromancer. both pull a lot of weight in this deck. thanks for the suggestion!
Very new to Commander/EDH, and I've been looking forward to playing Teysa since the days of (original) Ravnica, what with Orzhov being my favorite guild and BW being my favorite color combination.
Good news, everyone: I finally got around to slightly tweaking a stolen deck build creating my ... er, masterpiece!
Rather than post my incomplete and untested build, I thought I'd list a few cards I've included that I don't see in many other Teysa builds. (Keep in mind I'm very new to Commander, so it's very likely I'm simply wrong in my assessments---whether because I'm overestimating the value of certain mechanics (e.g. life gain, expensive bombs), or failing to appreciate other nuances of the format.)
Death Cloud -- A very powerful wipe that hits mana bases too, especially good (I'd think) in a deck with a low curve, recursion, and the means to benefit from sacrifice.
Devouring Greed -- A strong finisher, I'd think, if only we knew some way to make a lot of Spirits...
Heliod, God of the Sun -- Fetchable with Academy Rector, reasonably big & indestructible, vigilance across-the-board, and a token-generator to boot (albeit expensive, on that front).
Cataclysm -- With so much recursion, not to mention Teysa's own ability, I can't imagine any other commander coming out the other side of this in a better position than Teysa.
Diabolic Intent -- I know you mentioned including this, but why doesn't it rank more highly? From where I'm sitting, it's the next best thing to Demonic Tutor in this deck---with the potential to be even better. I'd think it's almost certainly superior to Grim Tutor/Imperial Seal, no?
Nightcreep -- Darkest Hour is great for setting up an infinite win combo, but it also shuts down Teysa's exile ability. With Nightcreep, I gain a turn's worth of infinite recursion that doesn't deprive me of Teysa's legion of spiritual assassins.
Desecration Elemental -- A cheap, serious threat that has to be dealt with, whose downside is heavily mitigated by almost everything else in the deck.
(I realize I'm getting higher in casting cost, which goes against your stated goal of keeping costs down, but would still love to hear if you or anyone else has opinions on some of these more expensive inclusions.)
Crovax, Ascendant Hero -- Well, yes, it kills all your X/1 black creatures. But consider the deck; that could be a good thing. And when it isn't, he's bouncible for 2 life. Meanwhile, he buffs your spirits and hurts most of your opponent's creatures.
Devout Invocation -- Interesting side note: the art accurately depicts how I'd look playing this card.
And then there are a few cards I tend to see in most Teysa decks; any special reason you excluded them?
Austere Command -- I've just heard so many good things about this card, I have to believe it's the greatest thing since Firefly (the show, not the insect... though they're ok too).
Mirror Entity -- This. Card. Is. A. Bomb. (Err, theoretically speaking.)
Corpse Dance -- The buyback on this, especially when combined with a sac outlet to save the creature, strikes me as very OP!
Okay, I have a bunch of other cards that I think are quite good for this deck, but I have gone on long enough (and Batman Origins just finished downloading, huzzah!). Would love to hear thoughts on the value of the above from more experienced EDH'ers! (And, if anyone happens to have a build that isn't so reliant on stack manipulation, I'd love to see it... this new MTGO client is a PITA when it comes to messing with the stack )
Amateur dinosaur hunter and extreme weather enthusiast, whose interests include spoken mime, armchair parkour, tactical gaslighting (for fun or for pay), conspicuous ninjutsu, and Schröedinger's pentameter—of which this sentence may or may not be an example.
To the above suggestions of Bitter Ordeal – I found that if I was going infinite sac I’m probably winning anyway. Outside of this combo I found it did too little on its own.
Been looking to make a rock deck work, and I am quite intrigued by this one. I was hoping to ask a few questions before I started picking up the parts.
1). Can the deck still work, if things like Blood Artist/ect get exiled? Exile/tuck is an unfortunate common thing in my group, primarily for MW with a genesis engines, I am curious how well the deck can do if the life engine get's disabled.
2). While there are certain upsides to DP over Necropotence, has the mandatory draw and life loss ended up biting you in the butt?
3). Have you considered running a few bigger end creatures like Ashen Rider to go along with some of the reanimation you are running?
1) Obviously since this is a combo based deck, if your combo pieces get exiled winning will be tougher. What type of exile is being run? Keep in mind this deck runs a lot of sac engines so any targeted or boardwipe removal exile/tuck (Hallowed Burial or Merciless Eviction) Is significantly less effective since you can just sac your board. The other thing to note is that there a lot of different paths to victory, Blood Artist, Vizkopa Guildmage, Reveillark + Karmic Guide,Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + ETB Creatures that make tokens, any infinite creature combos + Cathar's Crusade etc. The common theme to these combos is that things hit the bin but the actual pieces of each combo rarely overlap giving you a fair bit of redundancy if combo pieces from one get exiled.
2) Rarely, with a starting lifetotal of 40 you can usually find what you need to win the game. I have had to destroy my Dark Prophecy with a Necrotic Sliver before when I failed to hit any combo pieces, but in general with the lifegain in this deck the mandatory lifeloss is not a problem.
Very new to Commander/EDH, and I've been looking forward to playing Teysa since the days of (original) Ravnica, what with Orzhov being my favorite guild and BW being my favorite color combination.
Good news, everyone: I finally got around to slightly tweaking a stolen deck build creating my ... er, masterpiece!
Rather than post my incomplete and untested build, I thought I'd list a few cards I've included that I don't see in many other Teysa builds. (Keep in mind I'm very new to Commander, so it's very likely I'm simply wrong in my assessments---whether because I'm overestimating the value of certain mechanics (e.g. life gain, expensive bombs), or failing to appreciate other nuances of the format.)
Death Cloud -- A very powerful wipe that hits mana bases too, especially good (I'd think) in a deck with a low curve, recursion, and the means to benefit from sacrifice.
Devouring Greed -- A strong finisher, I'd think, if only we knew some way to make a lot of Spirits...
Heliod, God of the Sun -- Fetchable with Academy Rector, reasonably big & indestructible, vigilance across-the-board, and a token-generator to boot (albeit expensive, on that front).
Cataclysm -- With so much recursion, not to mention Teysa's own ability, I can't imagine any other commander coming out the other side of this in a better position than Teysa.
Diabolic Intent -- I know you mentioned including this, but why doesn't it rank more highly? From where I'm sitting, it's the next best thing to Demonic Tutor in this deck---with the potential to be even better. I'd think it's almost certainly superior to Grim Tutor/Imperial Seal, no?
Nightcreep -- Darkest Hour is great for setting up an infinite win combo, but it also shuts down Teysa's exile ability. With Nightcreep, I gain a turn's worth of infinite recursion that doesn't deprive me of Teysa's legion of spiritual assassins.
Desecration Elemental -- A cheap, serious threat that has to be dealt with, whose downside is heavily mitigated by almost everything else in the deck.
(I realize I'm getting higher in casting cost, which goes against your stated goal of keeping costs down, but would still love to hear if you or anyone else has opinions on some of these more expensive inclusions.)
Crovax, Ascendant Hero -- Well, yes, it kills all your X/1 black creatures. But consider the deck; that could be a good thing. And when it isn't, he's bouncible for 2 life. Meanwhile, he buffs your spirits and hurts most of your opponent's creatures.
Devout Invocation -- Interesting side note: the art accurately depicts how I'd look playing this card.
And then there are a few cards I tend to see in most Teysa decks; any special reason you excluded them?
Austere Command -- I've just heard so many good things about this card, I have to believe it's the greatest thing since Firefly (the show, not the insect... though they're ok too).
Mirror Entity -- This. Card. Is. A. Bomb. (Err, theoretically speaking.)
Corpse Dance -- The buyback on this, especially when combined with a sac outlet to save the creature, strikes me as very OP!
Okay, I have a bunch of other cards that I think are quite good for this deck, but I have gone on long enough (and Batman Origins just finished downloading, huzzah!). Would love to hear thoughts on the value of the above from more experienced EDH'ers! (And, if anyone happens to have a build that isn't so reliant on stack manipulation, I'd love to see it... this new MTGO client is a PITA when it comes to messing with the stack )
I dislike Death Cloud since my meta is full of UGx decks. You just end up putting yourself so far behind on lands and cards that it is usually worse for you than your opponents. Getting some 1/1 Spirits doesn't cut it.
Devouring Greed I tried this card for a bit a while ago. You will quickly find that while the deck makes a lot of spirits, it does not often have lots of spirits on the board at the same time as tokens are constantly being sacced to make other tokens. The flipside is if you make infinity spirits you have probably already won and this card is just win more.
Heliod, God of the Sun He's not that good, super expensive token generator, vigilance is not particularly useful since my deck is more combo orientated I don't actually attack with my tokens very often. If you are going for a more token strategy I would suggest Intangible Virtue, much cheaper and better effect than Heliod imo.
Exquisite Blood Problem here (at least for me) is that it is solely a combo piece with limited amounts of utility outside of that. So if you draw it without the Vizkopa Guildmage it is mostly a dead card. I try to limit such narrow 2 card combos in singleton 100 card decks.
Springjack Shepherd Not as good as other 4 drop token guys. In a Lark loop any creature that makes tokens on ETB will make inifite tokens so that point is irrelevant. 4 drops of choice are Sengir Autocrat and Marsh Flitter since these are black creatures that make black tokens. Theres no guarantee that you will get many tokens out of Springjack Shepherd
Cataclysm This is better than Death Cloud since it brings even to an even level. I would probably run Balance if it were legal so maybe I will give Cataclysm a shot
Thoughtpicker Witch Good effect, but whats important for Teysa is the ability to just have 'Sacrifice a creature:' the cost to sac kills this viability of this card.
Diabolic Intent Is pretty amazing in this deck, afaik Schondetta runs it along with Demonic Tutor. I personally don't run these sorts of tutors since it slows the game down significantly. With stuff like Stoneforge Mystic I know that 99% of the time im getting Skullclamp
Nightcreep Read it again It says become black not 'black in addition to their other colours' this works the same way as Darkest Hour. From the card rulings '5/1/2006 This effect overwrites all creatures' colors. Creatures will be black instead of any other color or colors.'
Desecration Elemental Never considered this guy tbh. Although he doesn't really fit into the token combo plan of my deck. In a more beatdown version I can see him being good.
Filth Again if the plan was beatdown instead of combo I would probably run this too
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Amazing effects unfortunately I think you will find that Planeswalkers are not so hot in multiplayer EDH. The turn cycles are so long so planeswalkers often die before being able to tick up that far. If you are more beatdown orientated I would recommend Sorin, Lord of Innistrad though, since he is able to make permanent anthem emblems right off the bat.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero Pretty nice anthem effect, though the -1/-1 to black creatures can be awkward at times. I think 95% of the time you will be happier to play Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in this slot.
Devout Invocation One of the cards I thought might get a slot. However as I said before, you make a lot of tokens, but they are not on the battlefield at the same time, making it hard to justify the high mana cost on this card. Side note 1 shot token making sorceries are often not as good as token producing creatures with ETB effects, creatures are much easier to recur in B/W than instants/sorceries.
Austere Command I love this card, never been sad when I've cast it
Mirror Entity Good in beatdowns, less good in combo since it will wipe your whole field if you are going the X=0 route.
Corpse Dance Considered, but 5 mana a pop is quite expensive
It seems pretty clear to me that you have approached building Teysa from a different angle, that being Token beatdown instead of combo. This is fine as there are lots of ways to build the deck. If you keep on with it just realise that the reason that card choices in this thread will differ will likely be because of this difference in playstyle.
Edit: Btw axed Bloodghast after multiple games, every time he came out he doesn't do much. Replaced with Tenacious Dead for the combo potential
Been looking to make a rock deck work, and I am quite intrigued by this one. I was hoping to ask a few questions before I started picking up the parts.
1). Can the deck still work, if things like Blood Artist/ect get exiled? Exile/tuck is an unfortunate common thing in my group, primarily for MW with a genesis engines, I am curious how well the deck can do if the life engine get's disabled.
2). While there are certain upsides to DP over Necropotence, has the mandatory draw and life loss ended up biting you in the butt?
3). Have you considered running a few bigger end creatures like Ashen Rider to go along with some of the reanimation you are running?
i do apologize as i missed this post! DarthXX answered the questions above to the T so i second what he wrote
To the above suggestions of Bitter Ordeal – I found that if I was going infinite sac I’m probably winning anyway. Outside of this combo I found it did too little on its own.
Been looking to make a rock deck work, and I am quite intrigued by this one. I was hoping to ask a few questions before I started picking up the parts.
1). Can the deck still work, if things like Blood Artist/ect get exiled? Exile/tuck is an unfortunate common thing in my group, primarily for MW with a genesis engines, I am curious how well the deck can do if the life engine get's disabled.
2). While there are certain upsides to DP over Necropotence, has the mandatory draw and life loss ended up biting you in the butt?
3). Have you considered running a few bigger end creatures like Ashen Rider to go along with some of the reanimation you are running?
1) Obviously since this is a combo based deck, if your combo pieces get exiled winning will be tougher. What type of exile is being run? Keep in mind this deck runs a lot of sac engines so any targeted or boardwipe removal exile/tuck (Hallowed Burial or Merciless Eviction) Is significantly less effective since you can just sac your board. The other thing to note is that there a lot of different paths to victory, Blood Artist, Vizkopa Guildmage, Reveillark + Karmic Guide,Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + ETB Creatures that make tokens, any infinite creature combos + Cathar's Crusade etc. The common theme to these combos is that things hit the bin but the actual pieces of each combo rarely overlap giving you a fair bit of redundancy if combo pieces from one get exiled.
2) Rarely, with a starting lifetotal of 40 you can usually find what you need to win the game. I have had to destroy my Dark Prophecy with a Necrotic Sliver before when I failed to hit any combo pieces, but in general with the lifegain in this deck the mandatory lifeloss is not a problem.
Very new to Commander/EDH, and I've been looking forward to playing Teysa since the days of (original) Ravnica, what with Orzhov being my favorite guild and BW being my favorite color combination.
Good news, everyone: I finally got around to slightly tweaking a stolen deck build creating my ... er, masterpiece!
Rather than post my incomplete and untested build, I thought I'd list a few cards I've included that I don't see in many other Teysa builds. (Keep in mind I'm very new to Commander, so it's very likely I'm simply wrong in my assessments---whether because I'm overestimating the value of certain mechanics (e.g. life gain, expensive bombs), or failing to appreciate other nuances of the format.)
Death Cloud -- A very powerful wipe that hits mana bases too, especially good (I'd think) in a deck with a low curve, recursion, and the means to benefit from sacrifice.
Devouring Greed -- A strong finisher, I'd think, if only we knew some way to make a lot of Spirits...
Heliod, God of the Sun -- Fetchable with Academy Rector, reasonably big & indestructible, vigilance across-the-board, and a token-generator to boot (albeit expensive, on that front).
Cataclysm -- With so much recursion, not to mention Teysa's own ability, I can't imagine any other commander coming out the other side of this in a better position than Teysa.
Diabolic Intent -- I know you mentioned including this, but why doesn't it rank more highly? From where I'm sitting, it's the next best thing to Demonic Tutor in this deck---with the potential to be even better. I'd think it's almost certainly superior to Grim Tutor/Imperial Seal, no?
Nightcreep -- Darkest Hour is great for setting up an infinite win combo, but it also shuts down Teysa's exile ability. With Nightcreep, I gain a turn's worth of infinite recursion that doesn't deprive me of Teysa's legion of spiritual assassins.
Desecration Elemental -- A cheap, serious threat that has to be dealt with, whose downside is heavily mitigated by almost everything else in the deck.
(I realize I'm getting higher in casting cost, which goes against your stated goal of keeping costs down, but would still love to hear if you or anyone else has opinions on some of these more expensive inclusions.)
Crovax, Ascendant Hero -- Well, yes, it kills all your X/1 black creatures. But consider the deck; that could be a good thing. And when it isn't, he's bouncible for 2 life. Meanwhile, he buffs your spirits and hurts most of your opponent's creatures.
Devout Invocation -- Interesting side note: the art accurately depicts how I'd look playing this card.
And then there are a few cards I tend to see in most Teysa decks; any special reason you excluded them?
Austere Command -- I've just heard so many good things about this card, I have to believe it's the greatest thing since Firefly (the show, not the insect... though they're ok too).
Mirror Entity -- This. Card. Is. A. Bomb. (Err, theoretically speaking.)
Corpse Dance -- The buyback on this, especially when combined with a sac outlet to save the creature, strikes me as very OP!
Okay, I have a bunch of other cards that I think are quite good for this deck, but I have gone on long enough (and Batman Origins just finished downloading, huzzah!). Would love to hear thoughts on the value of the above from more experienced EDH'ers! (And, if anyone happens to have a build that isn't so reliant on stack manipulation, I'd love to see it... this new MTGO client is a PITA when it comes to messing with the stack )
I dislike Death Cloud since my meta is full of UGx decks. You just end up putting yourself so far behind on lands and cards that it is usually worse for you than your opponents. Getting some 1/1 Spirits doesn't cut it.
Devouring Greed I tried this card for a bit a while ago. You will quickly find that while the deck makes a lot of spirits, it does not often have lots of spirits on the board at the same time as tokens are constantly being sacced to make other tokens. The flipside is if you make infinity spirits you have probably already won and this card is just win more.
Heliod, God of the Sun He's not that good, super expensive token generator, vigilance is not particularly useful since my deck is more combo orientated I don't actually attack with my tokens very often. If you are going for a more token strategy I would suggest Intangible Virtue, much cheaper and better effect than Heliod imo.
Exquisite Blood Problem here (at least for me) is that it is solely a combo piece with limited amounts of utility outside of that. So if you draw it without the Vizkopa Guildmage it is mostly a dead card. I try to limit such narrow 2 card combos in singleton 100 card decks.
Springjack Shepherd Not as good as other 4 drop token guys. In a Lark loop any creature that makes tokens on ETB will make inifite tokens so that point is irrelevant. 4 drops of choice are Sengir Autocrat and Marsh Flitter since these are black creatures that make black tokens. Theres no guarantee that you will get many tokens out of Springjack Shepherd
Cataclysm This is better than Death Cloud since it brings even to an even level. I would probably run Balance if it were legal so maybe I will give Cataclysm a shot
Thoughtpicker Witch Good effect, but whats important for Teysa is the ability to just have 'Sacrifice a creature:' the cost to sac kills this viability of this card.
Diabolic Intent Is pretty amazing in this deck, afaik Schondetta runs it along with Demonic Tutor. I personally don't run these sorts of tutors since it slows the game down significantly. With stuff like Stoneforge Mystic I know that 99% of the time im getting Skullclamp
Nightcreep Read it again It says become black not 'black in addition to their other colours' this works the same way as Darkest Hour. From the card rulings '5/1/2006 This effect overwrites all creatures' colors. Creatures will be black instead of any other color or colors.'
Desecration Elemental Never considered this guy tbh. Although he doesn't really fit into the token combo plan of my deck. In a more beatdown version I can see him being good.
Filth Again if the plan was beatdown instead of combo I would probably run this too
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Amazing effects unfortunately I think you will find that Planeswalkers are not so hot in multiplayer EDH. The turn cycles are so long so planeswalkers often die before being able to tick up that far. If you are more beatdown orientated I would recommend Sorin, Lord of Innistrad though, since he is able to make permanent anthem emblems right off the bat.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero Pretty nice anthem effect, though the -1/-1 to black creatures can be awkward at times. I think 95% of the time you will be happier to play Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in this slot.
Devout Invocation One of the cards I thought might get a slot. However as I said before, you make a lot of tokens, but they are not on the battlefield at the same time, making it hard to justify the high mana cost on this card. Side note 1 shot token making sorceries are often not as good as token producing creatures with ETB effects, creatures are much easier to recur in B/W than instants/sorceries.
Austere Command I love this card, never been sad when I've cast it
Mirror Entity Good in beatdowns, less good in combo since it will wipe your whole field if you are going the X=0 route.
Corpse Dance Considered, but 5 mana a pop is quite expensive
It seems pretty clear to me that you have approached building Teysa from a different angle, that being Token beatdown instead of combo. This is fine as there are lots of ways to build the deck. If you keep on with it just realise that the reason that card choices in this thread will differ will likely be because of this difference in playstyle.
Edit: Btw axed Bloodghast after multiple games, every time he came out he doesn't do much. Replaced with Tenacious Dead for the combo potential
A lot of this is spot on DarthXX very impressive
Cataclysm has actually a cool little synergy in this deck . if you have out one land skullclamp any 1/1 and w/e enchantment then the deck can pick back up in no time.
this deck can transform into a stax type deck very quickly. Braids, Cabal Minion, Restore Balance, Balancing Act, Smoke Stack, etc all fit in the deck very well ans is very effective against UGx ramp decks.I do play Smoke Stack main deck because its free sack outlet that Teysa can quickly overcome and its one of my fav cards
Diabolic Intet Probably should be in here. i just always forget about the card when i leave the computer.
Tenacious Deed needs to be back in here as well i tried him out when he first came anew but the deck was in a different place then. Its worth trying him out again i love me some 1 costs
one trick pony cards dont tickle my fancy especially in Multiplayer. usually enchantments are superior so cards like Devouring Greed are often not played. the deck needs to flow like butta so it needs more Mortar rather then Brick if you get the analogy
Most the cards Eunomiac posted above there seem perfectly fine in a combat oriented build but its really not what this deck wants to do. When my board gets as messy as it usually does turning cards physiaclly is almost impossible lol.
Very new to Commander/EDH, and I've been looking forward to playing Teysa since the days of (original) Ravnica, what with Orzhov being my favorite guild and BW being my favorite color combination.
Good news, everyone: I finally got around to slightly tweaking a stolen deck build creating my ... er, masterpiece!
Rather than post my incomplete and untested build, I thought I'd list a few cards I've included that I don't see in many other Teysa builds. (Keep in mind I'm very new to Commander, so it's very likely I'm simply wrong in my assessments---whether because I'm overestimating the value of certain mechanics (e.g. life gain, expensive bombs), or failing to appreciate other nuances of the format.)
Death Cloud -- A very powerful wipe that hits mana bases too, especially good (I'd think) in a deck with a low curve, recursion, and the means to benefit from sacrifice.
Devouring Greed -- A strong finisher, I'd think, if only we knew some way to make a lot of Spirits...
Heliod, God of the Sun -- Fetchable with Academy Rector, reasonably big & indestructible, vigilance across-the-board, and a token-generator to boot (albeit expensive, on that front).
Cataclysm -- With so much recursion, not to mention Teysa's own ability, I can't imagine any other commander coming out the other side of this in a better position than Teysa.
Diabolic Intent -- I know you mentioned including this, but why doesn't it rank more highly? From where I'm sitting, it's the next best thing to Demonic Tutor in this deck---with the potential to be even better. I'd think it's almost certainly superior to Grim Tutor/Imperial Seal, no?
Nightcreep -- Darkest Hour is great for setting up an infinite win combo, but it also shuts down Teysa's exile ability. With Nightcreep, I gain a turn's worth of infinite recursion that doesn't deprive me of Teysa's legion of spiritual assassins.
Desecration Elemental -- A cheap, serious threat that has to be dealt with, whose downside is heavily mitigated by almost everything else in the deck.
(I realize I'm getting higher in casting cost, which goes against your stated goal of keeping costs down, but would still love to hear if you or anyone else has opinions on some of these more expensive inclusions.)
Crovax, Ascendant Hero -- Well, yes, it kills all your X/1 black creatures. But consider the deck; that could be a good thing. And when it isn't, he's bouncible for 2 life. Meanwhile, he buffs your spirits and hurts most of your opponent's creatures.
Devout Invocation -- Interesting side note: the art accurately depicts how I'd look playing this card.
And then there are a few cards I tend to see in most Teysa decks; any special reason you excluded them?
Austere Command -- I've just heard so many good things about this card, I have to believe it's the greatest thing since Firefly (the show, not the insect... though they're ok too).
Mirror Entity -- This. Card. Is. A. Bomb. (Err, theoretically speaking.)
Corpse Dance -- The buyback on this, especially when combined with a sac outlet to save the creature, strikes me as very OP!
Okay, I have a bunch of other cards that I think are quite good for this deck, but I have gone on long enough (and Batman Origins just finished downloading, huzzah!). Would love to hear thoughts on the value of the above from more experienced EDH'ers! (And, if anyone happens to have a build that isn't so reliant on stack manipulation, I'd love to see it... this new MTGO client is a PITA when it comes to messing with the stack )
please see my above replies also DarthXX's as well . that should be prety helpful in your deck building saga. please if you have more specific questions dont hesitate to ask!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
turns out Carnival of souls is pretty explosive. especially with Zombie Infestation. oh man so many amazing synergies to post
the dets to follow soon...
Another thought on the Ophiomancer: Viscera Seer. Sure, I'll scry 1 and put a 1/1 spirit into play each turn. That card has been an alstar in my deck. Works stupid well if you also happen to have a Twilight Drover out.
Just my thoughts. ^.^
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics
[Primer]WIsamaru, the Howling BladeW[Primer]
[Primer]BGSkullbriar: From Life, Death Eternal (1v1)GB[Primer]
BGRbighaben and Feverous' Prossh, Skyraider of KherRGB
BGRProssh-Gro (1V1)RGB
- leaving the deck
Blistergrub ended up not doing too much .out-technologied by other cards
Braids, Cabal Minion want to eventually stray from the stax package. however smokestack is way more brutal to other decks without hurting Teysa too much so that stays also Gods are dumb
Crypt Ghast only really in for the extort not enough swamps are ran for his other effect. replaced with lower cost extort card/s
Fleshbag Marauder running two pact effects now making him obsolete .still plenty of other ways to deal with creatures
Kokusho, the Evening Star sad to cut this because hes so good with deathmantle might bring him back in but he keeps being used against me to often / meta call
Obzedat's Aid too clunky dont need any permanents that badly
Cathars' Crusade alt win con. want to cut on hybrid strategies like with braids and too much enchantments
Wrath of God plenty of other ways to kll creatures . retribution of the meek and martial coupdo the deck better .dont need 3 wraths
Orzhov Cluestone - clunky mana rock. replaced with better rocks
Spawning Pit - might make it back in soon but i havent used it very much recently so w/e that means
plains - replaced with temple of silence
Marshal's Anthem - too clunky and mana heavy .dont care about the anthem part
Oversold Cemetery - dont care enough for any of the creature to be brought back. too slow
- entering the deck
Ophiomancer - 3 mana bitterblossom with drawback easily negated + black tokens
Tithe Drinker - mainly here for the extort but has extreme upside of being both black and white
Read the Bones - my original concern with the deck is the draw speed outside of skullclamp this smooths things out when you cant clamp + low cost
Carnival of Souls - very explosive low cost free mana spell. plays nicely with deck . please see combo sections for more info
Martyr's Bond - wanted to put this back in due to the meta and everyone playing indestructible 7/6 Gods
Zombie Infestation - free black tokens with excess cards in hand.plays well with skullclamp .can also pitch stuff to yard to reanimte etc.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - wanted more systematic token production. and i also dont mind the target now
Temple of Silence - better mana fixing for us poor enemy bi-colored decks
Plunge into Darkness - umm awesome card draw plus use this with Vizkopa guildmage its essentially another win con for 2 + 3 mana
Faith's Reward - deck needs more explosive plays so this went back in. makes deck more unpredictable and thus better
Darksteel Ingot - i like the indestructible over the cluestones draw. i know that sounds weird but it works out somehow
Everflowing Chalice - wanted to make the deck faster even with an already low curve
Mana Vault - same as the chalice. deck just needs an initial early boost into the mid game. this helps with that advantage
i significantly lowered the curve of the deck to around 2.88 (lands included) and made it more explosive all-in-one-turn plays to keep the opponents on there feet.
there is a lot more pain for power(love it) in here i/e carnival of souls, mana vault, Dark Prophecy etc so i up'd the life gain with extort. plunge into darkness etc . this helps the fact that this is highly a player oriented deck that is really good with good players and really bad for bad players (not for new players etc) as stated in the primer. and i love the challenge that cards like carnival and Dark Prophecy bring
enjoy
its actually supposed to be a Necromancer . i had one in there instead of the rotlung but i dropped the card in the toilet so rotlung is in there unitl i get a new another Necormander. i dont want to post a decklist that im not 100% running but you are right on him being better. i want to make room for both.
GSelvala, Heart of the Wilds Inf Combo/FattiesG
GWSaffi Eriksdotter Inf ComboGW
BLiliana, Heretical Healer StaxB
RKiki-Jikki, Inf Combo/ETB AbuseR
hahaha thats awesome. glad you enjoy!
What do you think about Ogre Slumlord? He is really good in this deck? Because it seems to me that Belfry Spirit and Xathrid Necromancer ...
And Carnival of Souls has been very good in this deck? I'm thinking of run with it
tks
Ogre SLumlord is in the deck cuurently! hes great . well worth the 5 mana nad he is pretty much wrath insurance. oh and black creature tokens is a big plus.
i tried straying from creatures that cost more than 4 and unfortunately belfry spirit wasnt cutting it. Xathrid Necromancer should be where ROtlung REanimator is i havent come across one though but when i do i might just run both.
yea carnival of souls is amazing. very explosive and i wouldn't suggest playing it beyond your turn or too late in the game at least with an soul warden of sorts. you can essentially "go off" with Carnival, altar, skullclamp and Zombie infestation. i would suggest checking out the combo and synergy section where i note some of the craziness this 2 mana card entails
As for the includes not a huge fan of a few.
Tithe Drinker Does too little imo while it is nice that it is BW I think there are better creatures you can include, 1 extort trigger doesn't seem worth it esp with trying to keep a tight curve
Zombie Infestation I used to run this card and while it was okay, most of the time if I had 20+cards to discard to this thing I was going to win anyway. Felt very winmore.
Darksteel Ingot Not a fan of the 3 mana rocks in a low curve deck like this
Plunge into Darkness Also tried this card in my deck, its pretty awkward, it lets you dig deep but only gets you 1 card you are looking for, gaining large amounts of life wasn't a big enough impact. As a sac engine I would always rather have Carrion Feeder or Viscera Seer, for card drawing I would rather run Skeletal Scrying and lifegain combos for Vizkopa Guildmage I'd rather have like Suture Priest, Soul Warden or Blood Artist and friends. It has nice versatility but I just ultimately found that the versatility made came at the cost of power just pushing it below playability, at least in my version of the deck.
I've been running Ophiomancer since it came out and it is an absolute house, well worth the inclusion. I replaced Xathrid Necromancer for it since my human count was significantly lower than it used to be due to deck changes. I've been keeping an eye out for Carnival of Souls and Martyr's Bond and plan to include them if I can ever find a copy
Since BNG I've been making some changes to my version of the deck.
I've been considering removing Ogre Slumlord from the deck, although its a tough call since he gives so much value making black tokens. However I'm not sure it's worth it as him being a creature means he dies extremely easy. I've been running him with Field of Souls and I think that the hit you take only getting white tokens is worth it being on a much harder to remove enchantment. But still not sure, might just keep both in.
I also replaced some of the higher cost sac engines with cheaper ones, most of the time the sac effect is not important, you just need to put things into the graveyard. Sadistic Hypnotist has a very powerful effect but I found the sorcery speed to be a significant hindrance more often than not. Maw of the Obzedat while a powerful effect I felt did not do enough for his mana cost. The problem I have with him is that a lot of the sac fodder comes from turning your creatures into other creatures so by the time you sac enough to pump up your token swarm, most of them probably have summoning sickness. There were also fringe cases where he made playing with Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder difficult since he is a Thrull.
I've added both Ethersworn Canonist and Spirit of the Labyrinth. It's very easy for me to sac them on my turn and play out my spells then recur them at the end to make life more difficult for other players. Although these are mostly a meta call, most decks around here are UGx decks with Prophet of Kruphix everywhere
I'm also trying out Phyrexian Delver as an alternate way to go infinite with Karmic Guide, although this requires a few more pieces of lifegain but so far he has been pretty good.
Other cards I'm considering adding are
Gwyllion Hedge-Mage, seems strong in a Reveillark loop.
Myr Retriever, mainly to recur Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar which are by far the best sac engines and also Skullclamp. There is Treasure Hunter but I think costing 1 is more significant than being a white creature.
Reliquary Monk, I only recently discovered this card and it seems pretty easy to get value off of this, atm I've got Seal of Cleansing which can sometimes get value with Auramancer
Mortify is getting replaced with Disenchant. Most of the time this was hitting enchantments anyway, I don't have issues dealing with creatures. I pack a fair bit of artifact/enchantment removal because of my meta
Ad Nauseam, considering for extra card draw, plus you can occasionally draw your deck if you manage to go infinite on life but lack any wincons.
Eldrazi Monument is def coming out, have not been impressed enough by this card each time I've played it.
I've also taken out Twilight Drover I found him just a bit too mana intensive, when he was good he was awesome but other times he was just a 1/1 for 3. Might add him back in the future though
Mostly up to date decklist is here http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/teysa-orzhov-scion-22-05-13-1/
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Additionally, have you seen Gift of Immortality? That card has insane value in this deck.
Try out a Ranger of Eos package with Carrion Feeder and Gravecrawler as well.
i actually play Gift of Immortality i dont know why its not on the list must have miss counted a land or something. but yeah i agree it does have insane value.Ranger of Eos might not be bad. the lsit is really tight but when i feel like changing things up ill keep him in mind
i still love Ogre Slumlord. SPot removal is far and between in my meta and more than likely he is not the biggest threat .hes just always been good to me
Zombie Infestation is really explosive when you set it up with skullclamp and an altar. i would check out the combo section for more details on that but it does a lot of work for 2 mana
i still have respect for Cathar's Crusade. honestly i was jsut tired of keeping track of the +1 counters it was WAY to messy for me and unenjoyable plus like i stated above i wanted to take out alt win cons but still its powerful nonetheless
i agree on the 3 cost rocks. i would run the mox's, diamond / opal etc if they were not ridiculously overpriced
Vizkopa guildmage and plunge although is a one trick pony. still wraps the game up extremely quickly. plunge provides an instant speed sac out let with an additional bonus. its been good and does lot of work for 2-3 mana. i did play around with your list and its got a good feel like mine. thanks for the feedback!
Requiem angel i cut awhile ago it was too big and clumsy and didnt really need the effect that badly. win more i guess
the Hero fo blade hold and Knight-Captain of Eos feel a little out of place but i understand if you want to go a more swingy route. than there deal breakers.
i would also suggest Diabolic Intent as an additional low cost tutor since your list is more combo oriented and maybe even a Idyllic Tutor !
Been looking to make a rock deck work, and I am quite intrigued by this one. I was hoping to ask a few questions before I started picking up the parts.
1). Can the deck still work, if things like Blood Artist/ect get exiled? Exile/tuck is an unfortunate common thing in my group, primarily for MW with a genesis engines, I am curious how well the deck can do if the life engine get's disabled.
2). While there are certain upsides to DP over Necropotence, has the mandatory draw and life loss ended up biting you in the butt?
3). Have you considered running a few bigger end creatures like Ashen Rider to go along with some of the reanimation you are running?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics
[Primer]WIsamaru, the Howling BladeW[Primer]
[Primer]BGSkullbriar: From Life, Death Eternal (1v1)GB[Primer]
BGRbighaben and Feverous' Prossh, Skyraider of KherRGB
BGRProssh-Gro (1V1)RGB
hey thanks! glad your enjoying
ill certainly look into it. seems really good against combo decks. so worth trying out!
Just curious, what differences are you running in regards to this list? I'm asking as I run a similiar list.
Another question to the OP, by the way love the list it feels so resilient, if you had to join a super competitive meta what changes might you make. Maybe for a tournament. Thanks!
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
i would defiantly run more tutors. probably Diabolic Intent and Idyllic Tutor. throw in my mana crypt from my other deck . i would switch in Darkest Hour , that being he biggest one.hmmmm living death is pretty clutch. and probably a couple spot removal. Swords to plowshares . and i would NEVER run this card but if i wanted to be super competitive Sorin Markov would be in there as well
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
i am. i have to update the list again. basically its -Dimir house guard + suture priest
That being said, I always look at some other cards too. I try to keep my Teysa deck to a theme, that of my deck being a church. So I only try to use shamans, monks, clerics, and spirits. I do have the small exceptions if they are too good to exclude.
One such cleric that I think you might want to have a look-see at is Doomed Necromancer. It's amazing graveyard recursion, bringing something back to the battlefield. It's black which nets you a spirit. And it combos well with Reveillark. It is also pretty awesome with Sun Titan. But it's something to look towards. I run Rotlung so I have a pretty heavy cleric package, to get the most out of him.
BUGrimgrin's 3-Ringed CircusUB
"Which would you like first? The insult or the injury?"
BWNope! Chuck Teysa.WB
"By the time your knees have worn through your robe, you may have begun to learn your place..."
BGSpoiled Rotten.GB
"When something dies, all things benefit. Alright... just our things."
UUPrepare for Trouble, And make it DoubleUU
"One good mimic deserves another."
hey thanks for stopping by !
ive played around with Doomed Necromancer before. he is always a possiblity but suall y ended up being a one trick pony. if only he didnt have to tap! yes rotlung i agree is amazing so much i run him and his counter part Xathrid Necromancer. both pull a lot of weight in this deck. thanks for the suggestion!
Good news, everyone: I finally got around to
slightly tweaking a stolen deck buildcreating my ... er, masterpiece!Rather than post my incomplete and untested build, I thought I'd list a few cards I've included that I don't see in many other Teysa builds. (Keep in mind I'm very new to Commander, so it's very likely I'm simply wrong in my assessments---whether because I'm overestimating the value of certain mechanics (e.g. life gain, expensive bombs), or failing to appreciate other nuances of the format.)
(I realize I'm getting higher in casting cost, which goes against your stated goal of keeping costs down, but would still love to hear if you or anyone else has opinions on some of these more expensive inclusions.)
And then there are a few cards I tend to see in most Teysa decks; any special reason you excluded them?
Okay, I have a bunch of other cards that I think are quite good for this deck, but I have gone on long enough (and Batman Origins just finished downloading, huzzah!). Would love to hear thoughts on the value of the above from more experienced EDH'ers! (And, if anyone happens to have a build that isn't so reliant on stack manipulation, I'd love to see it... this new MTGO client is a PITA when it comes to messing with the stack )
To the above suggestions of Bitter Ordeal – I found that if I was going infinite sac I’m probably winning anyway. Outside of this combo I found it did too little on its own.
Doomed Necromancer is way too slow with the tap ability
1) Obviously since this is a combo based deck, if your combo pieces get exiled winning will be tougher. What type of exile is being run? Keep in mind this deck runs a lot of sac engines so any targeted or boardwipe removal exile/tuck (Hallowed Burial or Merciless Eviction) Is significantly less effective since you can just sac your board. The other thing to note is that there a lot of different paths to victory, Blood Artist, Vizkopa Guildmage, Reveillark + Karmic Guide,Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + ETB Creatures that make tokens, any infinite creature combos + Cathar's Crusade etc. The common theme to these combos is that things hit the bin but the actual pieces of each combo rarely overlap giving you a fair bit of redundancy if combo pieces from one get exiled.
2) Rarely, with a starting lifetotal of 40 you can usually find what you need to win the game. I have had to destroy my Dark Prophecy with a Necrotic Sliver before when I failed to hit any combo pieces, but in general with the lifegain in this deck the mandatory lifeloss is not a problem.
3) Not worth it, this deck wants to run as low a curve as possible. Most of the reanimation is focused around Reveillark and to a lesser extent Sun Titan (my iteration runs Twilight Shepherd), Phyrexian Reclamation, Volrath's Stronghold etc. High cost fatties do not fit well with these. For example compare Angel of Despair / Ashen Rider to Necrotic Sliver. Necrotic Sliver is cheap, fulfills the same role as the other two cards for comparable cost. But it is also a 2 power creature that can be hit with Reveillark and thus fits into a Reveillark loop destroying everyone's permanents with either Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar, additionally it is a Sun Titan target
I dislike Death Cloud since my meta is full of UGx decks. You just end up putting yourself so far behind on lands and cards that it is usually worse for you than your opponents. Getting some 1/1 Spirits doesn't cut it.
Devouring Greed I tried this card for a bit a while ago. You will quickly find that while the deck makes a lot of spirits, it does not often have lots of spirits on the board at the same time as tokens are constantly being sacced to make other tokens. The flipside is if you make infinity spirits you have probably already won and this card is just win more.
Heliod, God of the Sun He's not that good, super expensive token generator, vigilance is not particularly useful since my deck is more combo orientated I don't actually attack with my tokens very often. If you are going for a more token strategy I would suggest Intangible Virtue, much cheaper and better effect than Heliod imo.
Exquisite Blood Problem here (at least for me) is that it is solely a combo piece with limited amounts of utility outside of that. So if you draw it without the Vizkopa Guildmage it is mostly a dead card. I try to limit such narrow 2 card combos in singleton 100 card decks.
Springjack Shepherd Not as good as other 4 drop token guys. In a Lark loop any creature that makes tokens on ETB will make inifite tokens so that point is irrelevant. 4 drops of choice are Sengir Autocrat and Marsh Flitter since these are black creatures that make black tokens. Theres no guarantee that you will get many tokens out of Springjack Shepherd
Cataclysm This is better than Death Cloud since it brings even to an even level. I would probably run Balance if it were legal so maybe I will give Cataclysm a shot
Thoughtpicker Witch Good effect, but whats important for Teysa is the ability to just have 'Sacrifice a creature:' the cost to sac kills this viability of this card.
Diabolic Intent Is pretty amazing in this deck, afaik Schondetta runs it along with Demonic Tutor. I personally don't run these sorts of tutors since it slows the game down significantly. With stuff like Stoneforge Mystic I know that 99% of the time im getting Skullclamp
Nightcreep Read it again It says become black not 'black in addition to their other colours' this works the same way as Darkest Hour. From the card rulings '5/1/2006 This effect overwrites all creatures' colors. Creatures will be black instead of any other color or colors.'
Desecration Elemental Never considered this guy tbh. Although he doesn't really fit into the token combo plan of my deck. In a more beatdown version I can see him being good.
Filth Again if the plan was beatdown instead of combo I would probably run this too
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Amazing effects unfortunately I think you will find that Planeswalkers are not so hot in multiplayer EDH. The turn cycles are so long so planeswalkers often die before being able to tick up that far. If you are more beatdown orientated I would recommend Sorin, Lord of Innistrad though, since he is able to make permanent anthem emblems right off the bat.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero Pretty nice anthem effect, though the -1/-1 to black creatures can be awkward at times. I think 95% of the time you will be happier to play Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in this slot.
Devout Invocation One of the cards I thought might get a slot. However as I said before, you make a lot of tokens, but they are not on the battlefield at the same time, making it hard to justify the high mana cost on this card. Side note 1 shot token making sorceries are often not as good as token producing creatures with ETB effects, creatures are much easier to recur in B/W than instants/sorceries.
Austere Command I love this card, never been sad when I've cast it
Mirror Entity Good in beatdowns, less good in combo since it will wipe your whole field if you are going the X=0 route.
Corpse Dance Considered, but 5 mana a pop is quite expensive
High Market + Phyrexian Tower Both of these lands are amazing in this deck.
It seems pretty clear to me that you have approached building Teysa from a different angle, that being Token beatdown instead of combo. This is fine as there are lots of ways to build the deck. If you keep on with it just realise that the reason that card choices in this thread will differ will likely be because of this difference in playstyle.
Edit: Btw axed Bloodghast after multiple games, every time he came out he doesn't do much. Replaced with Tenacious Dead for the combo potential
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion 1v1 French
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
i do apologize as i missed this post! DarthXX answered the questions above to the T so i second what he wrote
A lot of this is spot on DarthXX very impressive
Cataclysm has actually a cool little synergy in this deck . if you have out one land skullclamp any 1/1 and w/e enchantment then the deck can pick back up in no time.
this deck can transform into a stax type deck very quickly. Braids, Cabal Minion, Restore Balance, Balancing Act, Smoke Stack, etc all fit in the deck very well ans is very effective against UGx ramp decks.I do play Smoke Stack main deck because its free sack outlet that Teysa can quickly overcome and its one of my fav cards
Diabolic Intet Probably should be in here. i just always forget about the card when i leave the computer.
Tenacious Deed needs to be back in here as well i tried him out when he first came anew but the deck was in a different place then. Its worth trying him out again i love me some 1 costs
one trick pony cards dont tickle my fancy especially in Multiplayer. usually enchantments are superior so cards like Devouring Greed are often not played. the deck needs to flow like butta so it needs more Mortar rather then Brick if you get the analogy
Most the cards Eunomiac posted above there seem perfectly fine in a combat oriented build but its really not what this deck wants to do. When my board gets as messy as it usually does turning cards physiaclly is almost impossible lol.
dont like Exquisite blood or its cousin Sanguine Bond. there only good for winning and i hate 2 card combos
Austere command is a house i definitely agree there
please see my above replies also DarthXX's as well . that should be prety helpful in your deck building saga. please if you have more specific questions dont hesitate to ask!