Hello I've been reading this primer for a while now and am very impressed with the overall quality of your karn build, and to be honest it did have rather a lot of influence in my build, I believe it has been mentioned before but have you considered jester's cap ? It has really helped me avoid stony silence,ruination, null rod, and other major threats to our plan.
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My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
Welcome to the thread and thanks for your feedback!
I have given the Jester's cap a shot before - and it's easily swappable with the Pyxis of Pandemonium in my current setup - and it's likely that I might return to it sometime soon. Recently, I've struggled to reduce the average casting cost of my deck. I've really worked to get most of my other decks to have lower aCMC's across the board - and it's overwhelmingly yielded positive results.
But I suppose the main reason I don't have a cap in my current build is an issue core to EDH itself - and that's playgroup variation. In a regular 4-man pod of friends, I feel like you're going to get a lot more mileage out of it than you would in my regular experience of larger (6 - 10 player) pods - unless, of course we're talking about recurring it. And my personal experience (and preference) for larger groups has probably affected my deck construction and playlist greatly over time.
However, bringing the subject up I'm reconsidering it- once cast, I never really activate the pyxis without otherwise having the win on the board, since exiling one of my own combo pieces is usually too risky, so having something that actually has a purpose could be helpful, even if I'll need another card (Hrmm...Nim Deathmantle) to win with it once I go infinite.
I want to get some deck updates on here this week (With the list I've been playing recently).
Initial update -
It's late, so it'll take a bit to update both versions of the list on the main page, but here's the changes I've been running for weeks now:
Quick note: I've gotten (and added) Chaos Orb to my deck. I tried to hold out, really - but it was my favorite card for such a long time, that I felt it'd be disingenuous not to play it. So, knowing full well that it is currently banned by current EDH rules, I allow the group to vote when I cast the card (I generally tap 4 for it) if they'd prefer for it to be a perilous vault instead.
Other than that, most of my card choices are new acquisitions, and attempts to reduce my average CMC throughout the deck.
I will poplulate the main list soon as time permits.
I have also been rather curious about what myr turbine does for your deck outside of producing fodder for kark clan iron works or clock of omens can it do anything important ?
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My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
With clock of omens or unwinding clock it can generate such a large amount of artifacts that -in turn- can easily translate into a lot of finite mana/actions that going infinite can be unnecessary. That's particularly important for those that frown on combo. Also, when people feel that you can poop out twenty dorks in one go, you can dissuade all but the most confident attackers.
Additionally, in a total pinch - it can give you Shimmer Myr or Myr Battlesphere - and both of those are gamewinning in the right circumstances.
and while I'm bothering you what do you think of my karn build
Coercive Portal has seemed like a risky bet at best to me. I'd be hard pressed to find a group of players that wouldn't blow it up on me at the worst possible moment.
I think I'd play a Serum Tank or Font of Mythos over the portal - but I've never even tried the portal to be honest.
I would suggest temple bell over howling mine, the bell is totally controllable, you can choose not to activate it until it is most beneficial to you, you also benefit from it right away unlike howling mine where every one benefits from it before you.
Memnite also seems really weak, especially in this format. Sundroplets as well, I would suggest ring of gix, since you're already running icy, and voltaic key, cause that card is nuts in karn.
I would also cut chalice of life, and maybe run a seer's sundial or something.
Coercive Portal has actually been really good for me because i will play 1v1 occasionally, but I like to keep the most important combo pieces either ,off the board or indestructible. So I'll usually combo off before I have to worry about it's next trigger, or throw it to krark-clan ironworks, phyrexia's core, trading post, erratic portal( via Karn), and in a pinch there is also ratchet bomb. But honesty I've found it can actually be nice to let the table have that option, then start dumping combo pieces I've been holding and go infinite while people are recovering from it. It's been solid for me, it might just be my meta, but I'd recommended it if you wanted to try it. As for the soul I'd love to play it I'm thinking of maybe cut soul conduit for it? Also I'm replacing rath's edge with Scorched Ruins , and unstable frontier with homeward path. At some point I'd like to get a maze of ith and a vesuva in there.
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My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
LOL I knew someone would beat me to it!!! This is very exciting for me cuz the list I use already optimizes prototype portal for lodestone golems and other prison stax. Burntgerbil gotta see this...
I would seriously consider prototype portal I did a little count and a good 10/60 of your non-lands would work insanely well with the portal and there is the aforementioned infinite turns combo as well. the only real downside with the portal I have noticed is that it tempts me to lock players out of the game with a large number of lodestone golems. That aside I'm thinking of running smokestack in my deck and wondered, how it played when you ran it. Did it combo with anything, and how did you max out it's potential in your build ?
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My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
I had run the portal before and cut it for two reasons:
1) Tempting Target Syndrome - everything being equal, a player with spot removal often goes for the Portal - just to 2-for-1 me.
2) Too often a dead card - Karn does combo pretty well. Where it could help is getting back on its feet after a blowout. A couple of times while trying to rebuild I had drawn this - and was frustrated that it does nothing on it's own. That was a precept I was going for with the deck - I want every card I include to have some amount of utility on it's own.
That said, I'm not averse to reconsidering it - but Ugin's Nexus alone isn't a compelling argument.
RE: Smokestack - My crew hates tax/prison effects. It was never enjoyable for me to run cards like smokestack.
I cut Prototype Portal out of my build for the same reason. However I don't think you need to run it to go infinite, I think Mimic Vat can cover it even with exile. Karn + Mimic Vat + the Nexus + any sac outlet. With the Vat out you have two replacement effects for the same thing so by the rules I believe you choose one. Assuming you've turned it into a creature you choose mimic vat the first time then choose an extra turn for the token each turn. This works best if your sac outlet is Krark-Clan Ironworks because you can do this all in one turn, could be tough otherwise.
I'll probably roll this card but it does concern me a bit that it naturally doesn't do much. It's entirely possible for it to be just a dead card, without a sac outlet it could easily just be a 5 mana nothing. But the extra turn effect and the possibility of warping it in off Shimmer Myr to stop a combo seem worth trying.
EDIT: Nope, I lied too. Mimic Vat is a triggered ability, bummer.
The portal can be great but no prison effects really limit it as they are often it's best targets. Personally I run it for lodestone golem, duplicant, jester's cap, sculpting steel, blightsteel colossus, and sol ring(portal ring and volt construct make as many sol rings as you can pay for.)
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Working toward level one judge certification
My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
Yeah, when I ran prototype portal, voltaic key and Darksteel citadel were some of my favorite things to imprint.
Try imprinting a pyxis of pandemonium with a Sol ring and unwinding clock in play - for maximum pyxus hijinx every turn!
(Each one in play will have its own pile with a different number of cards in each pile)
Liking the deck man it can ramp fast Vesuva---> Workshop please! Deal broker is just I win with enough infinte untap which probably means infinite mana. Deck is insane!
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Yeah, there are times where it can really explode - other times a board wipe will make it slow to rebuild - but it's always a unique experience every time.
Thanks to everyone involved -
It's cool that everyone keeps an eye out on stuff for me. I had hoped that the 'worker would be coming off the list sometime soon - All my years of testing and post-game notes hopefully played some part in that.
It's worth noting that now the once-dreaded Worker + Staff of Domination combo is legal in the game again. But it's up to us to use the Metalworker responsibly - it's capable of quite a few broken things - and while I feel that perhaps his most powerful interactions are in colored artifact-abuse decks, he's going to be the most reliable in colorless decks.
I wouldn't be surprised if he helps generate a lot more interest in decks like this one - and that's always fine by me!
Notably, we also got a few good possibilities for inclusion from KTK today - so I'd say we've done alright.
how would you feel about swapping out springjack pasture for tomb of the spirit dragon? I think it would be a nice upgrade and makes a handy mana sink with karn when the board is locked up, glad to see a nice colorless land in Kahns.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Working toward level one judge certification
My EDH decks: xKarn, silver golemx & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks: GUInfectGU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
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1. Tap for 4
2. Pay 1 to untap with Candelabra.
3. Pay 1 to untap Candelabra with Voltaic Key and 2 for Rings
It's a loop but I just think it gets you back to where you started unless I'm missing something.
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
I have given the Jester's cap a shot before - and it's easily swappable with the Pyxis of Pandemonium in my current setup - and it's likely that I might return to it sometime soon. Recently, I've struggled to reduce the average casting cost of my deck. I've really worked to get most of my other decks to have lower aCMC's across the board - and it's overwhelmingly yielded positive results.
But I suppose the main reason I don't have a cap in my current build is an issue core to EDH itself - and that's playgroup variation. In a regular 4-man pod of friends, I feel like you're going to get a lot more mileage out of it than you would in my regular experience of larger (6 - 10 player) pods - unless, of course we're talking about recurring it. And my personal experience (and preference) for larger groups has probably affected my deck construction and playlist greatly over time.
However, bringing the subject up I'm reconsidering it- once cast, I never really activate the pyxis without otherwise having the win on the board, since exiling one of my own combo pieces is usually too risky, so having something that actually has a purpose could be helpful, even if I'll need another card (Hrmm...Nim Deathmantle) to win with it once I go infinite.
I want to get some deck updates on here this week (With the list I've been playing recently).
Stay tuned
It's late, so it'll take a bit to update both versions of the list on the main page, but here's the changes I've been running for weeks now:
+
-
Quick note: I've gotten (and added) Chaos Orb to my deck. I tried to hold out, really - but it was my favorite card for such a long time, that I felt it'd be disingenuous not to play it. So, knowing full well that it is currently banned by current EDH rules, I allow the group to vote when I cast the card (I generally tap 4 for it) if they'd prefer for it to be a perilous vault instead.
Other than that, most of my card choices are new acquisitions, and attempts to reduce my average CMC throughout the deck.
I will poplulate the main list soon as time permits.
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
Additionally, in a total pinch - it can give you Shimmer Myr or Myr Battlesphere - and both of those are gamewinning in the right circumstances.
1 Karn, Silver Golem
mana rocks/ acceleration
1 thran dynamo
1 palladium myr
1 blinkmoth urn
1 sol ring
1 pristine talisman
1 krark-clan ironworks
1 gilded lotus
1 shimmer myr
Draw/sift/tutor
1 crystal ball
1 mind's eye
1 coercive portal
1 staff of nin
1 memory jar
1 otherworld atlas
1 skullclamp
1 howling Mine
1 kuldotha forgemaster
1 citanul flute
1 skyship weatherlight
1 expedition map
protection/barriers
1 erratic portal
1 icy manipulator
1 null brooch
1 soul conduit
1 nova pentacle
1 darksteel forge
1 venser's journal
1 elixir of immortality
1 sun droplet
1 chalice of life
1 scarecrone
1 etched champion
1 trading post
1 myr turbine
1 swiftfoot boots
1 lightning greaves
1 nim deathmantle
1 buried ruin
1 Glacial chasm
1 Mystifying maze
1 lodestone golem
1 torpor orb
1 platinum angel
1 meekstone
1 witchbane orb
1 platinum emperion
1 crawlspace
1 nevinyrral's disk
1 spine of ish sah
1 duplicant
1 ratchet bomb
1 jester's cap
1 steel hellkite
1 liquimetal coating
finishers
1 myr battlesphere
1 blightsteel colossus
1 voltaic construct
1 staff of domination
personal choice/ other
1 memnite
1 prototype portal
1 mirrorworks
1 rings of brighthearth
1 unwinding clock
1 clock of omens
lands
1 mishra's factory
1 tectonic edge
1 glimmerpost
1 encroaching wastes
1 zoetic cavern
1 rogue's passage
1 reliquary tower
1 ghost quarter
1 petrified field
1 strip mine
1 darksteel citadel
1 phyrexia's core
1 Thespian's stage
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 crystal vein
1 temple of the false god
1 radiant fountain
1 blasted landscape
1 deserted temple
1 haunted fengraf
1 cloudpost
1 blinkmoth well
1 desert
1 quicksand
1 stalking stones
1 dread statuary
1 gods' eye, gate to the reikai
1 urza's tower
1 urza's power plant
1 urza's mine
1 urza's factory
1 seraph sanctuary
1 unstable frontier
1 rath's edge
1 maze of shadows
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
Coercive Portal has seemed like a risky bet at best to me. I'd be hard pressed to find a group of players that wouldn't blow it up on me at the worst possible moment.
I think I'd play a Serum Tank or Font of Mythos over the portal - but I've never even tried the portal to be honest.
What do you think about adding the Soul of New Phyrexia to your deck?
Memnite also seems really weak, especially in this format. Sundroplets as well, I would suggest ring of gix, since you're already running icy, and voltaic key, cause that card is nuts in karn.
I would also cut chalice of life, and maybe run a seer's sundial or something.
RIP Karn EDH
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
5
Legendary Artifact
If a player would begin an extra turn, that player skips that turn instead.
If Ugin's Nexus would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, instead exile it and take an extra turn after this one.
Ugin's nexus was just spoiled and I would say it has a place for Karn's build prototype portal+krark-clan ironworks+ nexus is infinite turns
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
LOL I knew someone would beat me to it!!! This is very exciting for me cuz the list I use already optimizes prototype portal for lodestone golems and other prison stax. Burntgerbil gotta see this...
I like this. This + Karn + Nim Deathmantle is infinite turns for us - as long as you have a sac outlet online.
Edit: womp-womp ! I missed the exile part.
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
1) Tempting Target Syndrome - everything being equal, a player with spot removal often goes for the Portal - just to 2-for-1 me.
2) Too often a dead card - Karn does combo pretty well. Where it could help is getting back on its feet after a blowout. A couple of times while trying to rebuild I had drawn this - and was frustrated that it does nothing on it's own. That was a precept I was going for with the deck - I want every card I include to have some amount of utility on it's own.
That said, I'm not averse to reconsidering it - but Ugin's Nexus alone isn't a compelling argument.
RE: Smokestack - My crew hates tax/prison effects. It was never enjoyable for me to run cards like smokestack.
I'll probably roll this card but it does concern me a bit that it naturally doesn't do much. It's entirely possible for it to be just a dead card, without a sac outlet it could easily just be a 5 mana nothing. But the extra turn effect and the possibility of warping it in off Shimmer Myr to stop a combo seem worth trying.
EDIT: Nope, I lied too. Mimic Vat is a triggered ability, bummer.
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh
Try imprinting a pyxis of pandemonium with a Sol ring and unwinding clock in play - for maximum pyxus hijinx every turn!
(Each one in play will have its own pile with a different number of cards in each pile)
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
Update Here
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
It's cool that everyone keeps an eye out on stuff for me. I had hoped that the 'worker would be coming off the list sometime soon - All my years of testing and post-game notes hopefully played some part in that.
It's worth noting that now the once-dreaded Worker + Staff of Domination combo is legal in the game again. But it's up to us to use the Metalworker responsibly - it's capable of quite a few broken things - and while I feel that perhaps his most powerful interactions are in colored artifact-abuse decks, he's going to be the most reliable in colorless decks.
I wouldn't be surprised if he helps generate a lot more interest in decks like this one - and that's always fine by me!
Notably, we also got a few good possibilities for inclusion from KTK today - so I'd say we've done alright.
x Karn, silver golem x & RKrenko, mob bossR
My modern decks:
GUInfect GU
under construction
modern affinity & phelddagrif edh