Yes, I still think it may be worth it, but i never tested it actually. I'm not playing the deck in this period but if I did I'd love to put it in the list. Considering there are 5 wizards as of now (and all of them pretty good with the land) and a bunch of tutors, it's easy for it to have a big impact on a game. Probably ISB is right when he says that 5 is not quite enough wizards and that the land by itself is useless (also colorless lands should stay at a minimum), but the opportunity cost of adding it doesn't seem really too high to me, and the gain can win you games. Not 100% sold of course, and that's why I thought adding another target (Azami, wich also needs to be protected) could seal the deal. Hasn't anyone tried it already?
Actually, I have. The above wasn't just theory, rather from experience. Snapcaster was re-cocked several times last night and later Magus of the Future ripped out before a Supreme Verdict and then later still there beside Glen Elendra was Archaeomancer with Cyclonic Rift in the graveyard. It was Magic-Christmasland!
And then we ran out of time. . .
Flicker effects are usually better for ETB creatures, but Riptide works at instant speed and sometimes - as in the case of Snapcaster or perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant - you really want a bounce.
The OP has fewer Wizards than I do, so perhaps he's right to avoid it, but I'm just out for fun and - to me at least - Riptide is a hoot! And it's pretty cheap at $5 or less on eBay.
In fact, I have enough Wizards that I run Cavern of Souls for them and I'm even thinking of trying Diviner's Wand - it's fun to draw cards!
If you want to gain life there's the new Resolute Archangel. A bit costly though.
Yea, that's a little more mana than I want to spend on it. Its not a bad effect I guess but for the mana its a little questionable. The wall has been working for me alright so far in testing and it does good at just turning swords other directions too so far.
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Pros:
One more power
Not as much of an issue against opposing clones
Vs sliver decks could be an issue
Cons:
We can potentially clone the sliver for better value
Its really a pros and con sort of game. I think we are light enough on artifact / enchantments that even if you are worried about opponents cloning the sliver we dont have nearly as many targets as opponents so its probably still a good thing. I think overall they feel about the same as I generally see no difference in performance between a 1/1 and a 2/1 but the cloning thing is also relatively minimal since I only run two clones as is. Its possible that if you run more clones or see more clones in your meta this call could be a bigger one. I might end up running both of them as I think they are both excellent but I dont really see any pro or con to sell me on one or the other offhand.
If I had to name one that is better all the time... Its probably the new Sage because I could see an issue with playing against a sliver deck coming up. I think its mostly minor either way but given the option to run one or the other the new Sage might be a little better all around but not by much and a lot of that is sort of situational drawbacks.
could you clarify your comments on clones? does the wording of Harmonic Sliver prevent the ability from working with clones?
I was more or less saying that harmonic sliver interacts with clones in odd ways. If you have a Harmonic Sliver in play and then play a clone as a Harmonic Sliver, each copy of Harmonic Sliver has "When this permanent enters the battlefield, destroy target artifact or enchantment." This stacks and so you actually get two triggers of Harmonic if you already had one in play and cloned it. Its a good thing usually assuming you are the one cloning the sliver but it can be a bad thing if someone else plays a clone of it.
I dont know if that clarifies that much at all but slivers give all slivers abilities. This ability stacks when you have two of the same sliver so when a second Harmonic comes in it triggers its ability twice. If a third copy comes in you would get three copies of the ETB and so forth. Its usually an asset to me in this deck and I have seen relatively few backfires of this stacking process.
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You don't consider the simpler mana requirement a pro, or for that matter, a con? One would expect the elf to be less expensive and easier to acquire for someone building anew. Not that the Sliver is expensive, but someone would probably give a fellow an uncommon from a core set.
There's certainly nothing wrong with running both, but one would have to replace something else then.
The white avatar seems like a great fit to the deck. My list is pretty much the same as ISBs but I have mirrior entity and cyolonic rift instead of the 2 3cc counter spells. the only weakness to this deck i find is the lack of lifesteal. its rare but some decks i come across that have drain or pings can really steal a game that it has no business of winning. the avatar provides enough lifesteal where you dont need it but comes in handy when you do. i also run prophet of kruphix instead of ephara (which btw, ISB you need to try because just having her out + jenera is enough to win and changes the dynamic of how the table has to respond to you) so the avatar is another great mana sink thats amazing on both defense and offense. the avatar allows you to take over like you would if you had prophet and jenara out.
i havent tested but it seems like a sound idea. any thoughts?
Avacyn, Guardian Angel cool creature but its not really good enough for EDH play. No ETB and sub optimal for most white decks so moving on...
Ephemeral Shields I like the idea of a no mana up situation where you cast this but this is ETB so we dont really care about our creatures...
Heliod's Pilgrim from a budget friendly build, I really like this creature. Adding in a few Arrest type cards and using this as a cheap tutor for them could be really nice.
Hushwing Gryff owch this is going to hurt this deck. Still, this sort of thing is why we have robust answers in the deck. Just remove it and move on as soon as you can. Obviously it has no place in this type of deck unless you were to cut back on the ETB stuff and run it more of a general control build.
Resolute Archangel its a means to gain life. I don't think its good enough to run normally speaking but if you encounter a lot of aggro decks that focus on dropping your life total I suppose looking into some lifegain means is something to consider. My issue here though is that I don't think this is anywhere near the top of the list of things I would consider adding in that sort of a situation.
Return to the Ranks I am really sad that this couldnt have scaled to the 3 or less mark. Its interesting but its so limited I just dont see any room for this type of card. Its cool but its lack of scalability hurts its EDH playability.
Soul of Theros its super expensive to drop and use this guy in one shot. He has potential to be a nice buff but if you are looking for lifegain, I think there are better and if you are looking for an anthem I think there are better. This deck does pick up a lot of incidental ETB guys in play but the likelihood of swarming with this guy just isnt that good. Mirror Entity will be far superior to this guy if you are looking for a creature anthem effect.
Spirit Bonds kind of interesting as a card. Its possible to use this as a means of protecting Jenara though if you want to try some tech. I think its interesting but we arent really a token build. I also assume that the enchantment itself would get targeted and removed assuming you were using it to protect things.
BLUE:
Ætherspouts I think this is a very powerful effect, that said, I think it belongs in a deck more designed to play draw / go like Derevi or Teferi. This is a really cool toy but it costs a lot of mana to keep up as an option. It is also a lot more situational than Cyclonic Rift so... ehh.
Jace, the Living Guildpact when I first read his first ability I thought he drew a card as well and I was looking forward to him. He is a value over time walker and worse than JTMS who I also don't run because of the fact that he is a value over time walker. I wouldn't bother with this flavor but I could see situations where he could be interesting in some sort of UB re-animator or something like it.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist its a slower, creature based Proteus Staff that sacrifices instead of tucks. I think its honestly worse than Proteus Staff due to the fact that tucking opponents commanders was an option with the staff. That being said, you can sacrifice at instant speed and sacrifice puts your own creatures in a potentially better access position for abuse. Still... I think there are a lot of issues with her in general. If she had cost one less I might have given her a little more consideration due to Sun Titan's ability to rez but I just don't see it right now. I think its more likely that I would bring the Proteus Staff back in or go back to Lurking Predators for random value.
Mercurial Pretender a more expensive clone with an immediate return to hand effect. Its interesting but I don't like keeping 4 mana up for this type of ability in this deck. I could possibly see it in a draw go deck but overall I think its more of an interesting flavor card than one that will be strong in this format.
Polymorphist's Jest amusing effect. I like that it can turn a Craterhoof Behemoth charge around. I think its a really cool sort of blue fog but thats just not something I really see as being useful here. I think its got cool flavor but I don't see myself using it.
Quickling a blue Whitemane Lion! Its bounce ability isn't quite as good but it flies. I think its really cool that blue got this. I think its really cool that blue got this but don't know offhand where I would run this in EDH.
Soul of Ravnica really wizards... this mythic just seems like its a really bad miss as far as things go. The cost to activate is just so high and so restrictive.... I will just move on but... really?
GREEN:
Genesis Hydra I have spent more time griping about this than I care to. Its really bad Genesis Wave. Just don't bother...
Hornet Nest amusing design but it doesn't fit this deck.
Invasive Species interesting design for green but its just a bad Æther Adept in the end. Crystal Shard and so many others greatly outclass this guy but its interesting to see on a green creature I suppose.
Life's Legacy depending on how much you like dropping Jenara into things. I think this could be a solid draw option. As usual though I regret that this couldn't have been an instant but I understand the issue with making it as cheap as it is plus an instant. I think 3-4 mana is where an instant speed version of this needs to stay which is too much mana for it in my opinion.
Nissa, Worldwaker she really only fits in some sort of a stasis style of build in my opinion. That isn't what this is so I will just move on.
Phytotitan he seems really good in a sac to do things based build. The idea of throwing him into a Greater Good a few times really seems extremely painful. Again though, that isnt what this deck is though.
Reclamation Sage its another Harmonic Sliver for all useful purposes. There are pros and cons between both of them. If you are new or on a budget get this new guy as he will cost a lot less to obtain. I think its something to consider to run both of them but I don't feel like there is really one or the other between these guys that is a "better" for all general purposes.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard the fact that he has the title of "the Wandering Bard" and then they tagged rogue as his creature type bothers me more than it should... I think he is interesting but he is slow and very durdle. I think he resembles Jalira, Master Polymorphist in some ways but I think that she is stronger than he is. The fact that he has to crawl up the creature ladder starting at one mana really hurts him. He is like a really funky bad Birthing Pod.
ARTIFACTS:
Perilous Vault it might resemble Oblviion Stone at first glance but its really inferior in here for sure. Oblivion Stone destroys which allows us to reanimate and recover which this does not allow. We can Sun Titan O Stone back which we cannot with vault. Tezzeret can also fetch up a stone and still be alive which the vault cannot do. Then there is the whole fact that we can slow roll the stone and protect things which is not an option with the Vault. In the end, I think vault is more of an option in colors that have issues dealing with types of permenents and or gods. I think its cool that its going to be a thing but I dont think its worth consideration here. I think it is more of a card you consider when you are having a very specific sort of problem already that it helps fix.
Soul of New Phyrexia ehhh its interesting. Its not something I would play in a deck like this though.
And there you have my review of M15 for Jenara. I think Reclamation Sage and Hushwing Gryff are probably the best cards coming out in this set so sadly one of them hurts us quite a bit. Reclamation Sage is probably worth putting some consideration into but I don't know if I need both him and Harmonic Sliver in deck at the same time. I will give it some thought though but its always a pain to make cuts. Life's Legacy might be something I take a bit more of a look at as well just because of the potential to draw whole new hands for 2 mana but most of the big fatties in deck I would have some hesitation in dropping at sorcery speed. Its an interesting set for being a core though so I like that.
Phytotitan and Life's Legacy look like the sort of thing that would put a smile on one's face.
I'd still want some other good creature targets before I included Life's Legacy. I run even fewer fatties than the primer deck does and I want them to stay on the board and do work.
There are doubtless infinite nasty combinations for Life's Legacy in BG.
Hey can I get some feedback on my tentative deck list? It's intended to be a 1v1 deck that I can also play in a group. I'm kind of broke, so I left out expensive cards that I won't be able to use in other formats (sylvan library, etc.)
1v1 isn't really my game so my feedback might be a little off base due to that but I will try to gear my feedback for that angle.
You are running a very low mana curve with a good number of mana dorks. Have you considered adding mass land destruction effects like Armageddon to your list? I dont know how productive these effects are in 1v1 in relation to how effective they are in multiplayer but with your low curve and high dork count it feels like the type of list that might consider blowing up lands.
I feel like you could possibly use a few more solid threats or enablers in your list. Sadly a lot of the ones that come to mind arent extremely cheap to get. Rafiq of the Many, Finest Hour, and Silverblade Paladin.
If I were looking at this list from a perspective of multiplayer I would say that you might need more card draw but 1v1 is sort of an odd format in comparison as 1 for 1 removal gets you a lot further than it does in multiplayer. For multiplayer I also think you are too heavy on the mana dorks but I get thrown off when it comes to 1v1 and what they need.
All in all, my only real concern for this as a 1v1 deck is I guess the amount of dependance on Jenara as I see it. Outside of Jenara you have only a handful of creatures that actually seem like they would be threats. Like I said though, 1v1 isn't my strong area by any means though so I don't know how relevant my feedback is going to be offhand.
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Hey guys, I'm very happy with my updated listed that i've been working on. Just looking for opinions on what else might be able to make an impact.
I'm considering taking out Bribery and counterspell for idk what. It's a great card but everybody I play with uses Homeward path, so its always on the field making Bribery less good. Am I just being silly and over cautious, should I just keep it in? Are there any other changes you would make?
I personally would not advocate cutting Bribery even in a homeward path heavy meta. You can always still target ETB creatures and its just very versatile for the mana. Even with a Homeward Path out I think a lot of times you can still play around it and just target another player. Often if you do not provoke a player who has homeward path they would prefer you to still have it as they can then take it away at will giving them the power so long as it stays in your control. This is assuming you arent running away with the game though as if you appear to be winning they will often do it just to put you back a bit. Overall though I would say play it more for the ETB triggers especially if you are having issues with having good targets.
Counterspell - I might suggest Arcane Denial. In my mind though its incredibly important to keep counters as cheap as possible and as easy to cast as possible. Arcane Denial has some negative card advantage to it but with normal multiplayer games a turn rotation brings you one card and opponents three cards so countering a key thing and resulting in a card for you and 2 cards for opponents is still less negative card advantage than just a turn rotation. Its a solid counter to consider in the two mana spot.
Overall looking at your list I notice a few things:
Your overall amount of draw looks quite low. I see Consecrated Sphinx, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Sylvan Library as sort of the sustainable draws with minimal one shot effects that do more than just replace themselves. I feel like more could be added to the list as you have a bit of spot removal too but without some sustainable draw it feels like you can run out of cards in hand fairly easily.
Genesis has always been a bit awkward in my mind without a sac based deck or a heavy discard basis to it. Birthing Pod and Survival are more or less the ways to control him going to the graveyard in these colors but playing him out leaves him vulnerable to exile and tuck wraths / spot removal which can be awkward.
The amount of equipment and lack of Stoneforge Mystic sort of surprises me.
Detention Sphere looses quite a bit in this format due to the multiple players. If you regularly see sweepers which catch enchantments it can result in awkward situations where something bad just happens to come back into play. I would personally suggest a different card like Unexpectedly Absent, Oblation, or just something else. Its true that it can be nice against tokens but too often these things do end up poping and bringing bad things back which is why I tend to avoid using them in this format.
Garruk Wildspeaker feels a bit out of place here. Normally there are a lot of types of decks he can go into but the areas I would expect to see him tend to be: stax, stasis, MLD metas, and token decks. I think he can be solid but the rest of your list doesn't really reflect any of these things present in your meta. If you are just using him as two mana a turn I think there are more reliable ways of doing that. He can be really solid but most of my experience leads me to think that this isnt one of the situations where I would expect much from him.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Edit: Found your building on a budget section. My bad
I made that section quite a while back so if its a little dated I apologize. Really there is no one correct way to build this deck from the ground up on a budget so whatever direction you want to take is fine. When I was building this deck the total price of the deck fell into the range of something like $1,300.00 or so for everything but these days the last I checked the cost of things is at least 1.5 times what I spent putting it together. The reprinting of the fetchalnds and shocklands helps though as that's a lot of pressure off of the landbase.
I cant bump my thread for another day yet so I will just do it here for now.
OMNICLONE!!!!!!!! I am looking forward to this bugger coming out as I would love another metamorph. I dont know what I am moving arround for now but the option to copy equipment, gods, and everything else as well as the fact that its super tutorable and easy to retrieve. This guy is going to be a great addition!!!!
I am building this deck almost exclusively based on your list. The one exception is Prophet of Kruphix. I have read and understand your objections. That being understood, if I was determined to include it what would you remove?
I am building this deck almost exclusively based on your list. The one exception is Prophet of Kruphix. I have read and understand your objections. That being understood, if I was determined to include it what would you remove?
Offhand, I haven't felt that Duplicant has been as needed since the inclusion of Ixidron. There is always the option of Gilded Drake answering in more or less the same way that Duplicant would as well so in a lot of ways he is expensive to drop and sort of redundant by several other cards. I have been testing Wall of Reverence in place of Duplicant for a little bit now due to a few pressure decks in my meta being a bit difficult to deal with long term. Its inclusion is a bit of a meta call but it does good work vs Purphoros, God of the Forge type decks. Ephara, God of the Polis also has not been doing as well as I had originally expected her to. She isn't bad by any means but I was sort of thinking I might be replacing her with Clever Impersonator when it comes out.
I ended up stealing someone else's Prophet of Kruphix via a Bribery last night and while I did win the game off of the back of it it was not my intention to get it but the thing I wanted was in his hand and at any point if I had been wrathed it would have been a no value Bribery. In my mind, that situation was an all or nothing situation where I win the game off of it or get like zero value from it which happened to work out for me but it was a winmore situation for me where I already was in the lead but sort of read that they did not have the answers for it offhand.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I was reading through this thread and I didn't really find anything about this even with the search function so forgive me if I am making you repeat yourself. Moving to the main question: I was wondering your opinion of Progenitor Mimic is? (He's not mentioned under creatures portion of the 1st post)
Based off what I've read and what you've stated as desired elements of this deck (e.g. ETB,Control,& goodstuff) I feel that Progenitor Mimic would be great addition to your deck. He's a bit expensive being 6 cost, but:
1) He's multicolor w/ green creature which you mentioned you'd like Green Sun's Zenith to have more targets so that he kinda fits the bill.(yes you'd have to pay 7 mana to get him, but he hits the field and can potentially answer threats.)
2) If using Green Sun's Zenith isn't your thing he can also be easily be tutored by Survival of the fittest, and your favorite card Fierce Empath so tutoring is available.
3) He plays well with the ETB creatures you have since he basically puts a token copy in every turn. (somewhere in this thread someone mentioned something about bouncing him to copy his own token so you have double token generation by copying his rule text and I believe you can bounce him again to clone his future tokens again to keep +1 the rule text). So he works well with Venser, Shaper Savant and to a lesser extent Venser, the Sojourner
5) He can also soft-fix Ephara, God of the Polis for you by getting in that generating tokens each turn to provide the draw trigger.
Potential plays I can see:
Progenitor Mimic + any of our ETB guys = more ETB... what more do you need?
Progenitor Mimic + Duplicant (or even cooler clone cards like Clever Impersonator) = "Sup man!, I heard you like clone! So I put some clone in your clone so you can clone while you clone"
Progenitor Mimic + Eternal Witness + Time Warp (and friends) = for Inf turns, I know your deck doesn't pursue combos specifically, but I just wanted to point it out.
I don't know what card to suggest to take out.. however based off what I've play tested and read, maybe Brainstorm? (because if you follow your change log brainstorm conjurer's closet then Sylvan Primordial then Akroma, Angel of Wrath, I believe so putting a big creature back in might be an option) or Ephara, God of the Polis since she's not performing well, lastly maybe Skullclamp since its never really out when I do have the x/1's and when I do have it on the field it either sits unused and I forget about it but that might be a personal beef.
I'm interested in what your opinion on the matter is. I look forward to seeing your response.
It's a neat card, but is a very expensive clone and has to stay on the table for a whole rotation in order to get the real value out of it. If your meta is light on removal, go for it, but it also needs to be able to clone a good creature for you to get consistent value, although a repeatable ETB isn't that bad.
Regarding cloning clones, you can clone a Duplicant, but you can't clone a clever impersonator, phantasmal image, phyrexian metamorph, or any of those sorts of clones because they have base power/toughness of 0 and become the creature/permanent they copied upon entry meaning that you wouldn't be cloning the clone, but rather what it had become.
Kyusurugi - It definitely has its merits. It is a Green Sun's Zenith target and it does rez off of lark nicely. My biggest concern which has kept me away from running it is that its sort of expensive as a creature and draws a lot of attention to itself. I think it could come down to a matter of how often you can kick out one or more token from it. If you can even get a token half of the time I think its worth running but it strikes me as a card that is better vs aggro metas where as I feel like my own meta is more control oriented not to mention I tend to be a very big target myself at games making me feel a bit conflicted about utilizing it myself. I think there are much worse things you could run though so I guess I would say its a card worth testing if you see it as something you want to run. It has potential to run away with games if left alone but that can be said about a lot of things to be honest.
koji_m - I see you are running the lark infinite. You could utilize Enlightened Tutor / Idyllic Tutor / Mystical Tutor / Intuition depending on how much you want to focus on executing it. Overall it looks like you worked hard to get the list together and you have most everything I myself run. You might look into grabbing a Krosan Verge perhaps for the list as I think it falls in more or less with the Evolving Wilds type of lands. It does allow you to fetch your shocks though which is nice. It looks like a great list though there really isn't anything I saw that looks like its unplayable or inferior to something else. The landbase still has a few holes in it but for the most part you have like 70% of what I would suggest getting for the landbase.
Grasslands and Flood Plain are probably superior to the Evolving Wilds lands due to their ability to fetch up shocks. They have the same one turn sort of unusable issue but the lands they fetch come in untapped so you can still get the basic in for an untapped or shock yourself. Probably a decent and cheap way to work off of your shocklands a bit more. I guess you could always run them together with the Evolving Wilds lands as well but they are probably worth looking into.
Abzan Battle Priest it can work in a budget list as a means of giving lifelink to Jenara. This is the sort of stuff you add to a budget list where you are using more or less what you have on hand though. I don't really suggest it overall but I guess in some ways its more robust than using lifelink. Budget decks often need to prioritize Jenara as their wincon though and he works as a cheap on hand sort of anthem for her to give a nice life cushion for attacking out.
Brave the Sands vigilance plus double blocking is a REALLY nice budget anthem for this deck. Jenara easily pumps up to the point where she is bigger than many attackers so the option to attack and defend PLUS double block is really nice. This seems like a really great budget card and to some degrees I see some merit in just playing around with this card. It makes your creatures a lot more efficient in combat.
End Hostilities its a 5 mana wrath effect. It has some merit vs heavy equipment decks but seeing as how I run equipment myself plus have plenty of access to removal for everything that this provides I dont really see it as anything special.
Feat of Resistance it could see some budget play as a means to protect Jenara. Keep in mind though that Counterspells will generally protect better but this one does come with a free +1/+1 counter and it can be used for evasion purposes if you would like. It is really nothing new as far as what it does but possibly combines the two in a more attractive way for those looking for a little bump up with their protection. Personally I feel like it makes more sense in a deck where the commander does not pump on its own though which makes me think that a different source of protection will likely better serve you in this deck.
Timely Hordemate while I find this guy really interesting and cool, I am really disappointed that they cut him off at 2 mana instead of three. There are still some great 2 mana targets in this deck but its limiting enough that I don't see a lot of point in using him in this list. He dodges lark and Sun Titan as far as being a target as well which makes me sort of all around frown.
Wingmate Roc the big issue here is that the token just doesn't really matter here. If the token also copied the ability to gain life it might be a different story but it means that even if you do manage to flicker him a bunch you still aren't really doing much. Size wise they are a bit odd for fliers as well but not strong enough to really be something that is menacing and when it comes to being blocked / blocking they make for odd sized creatures for this format.
BLUE:
Clever Impersonator this guy is really strong for a number of reasons. He is a creature which means we can tutor for and recover him much easier and he falls into the same mana range as most clones of 4 mana. He has the 0/0 size which lets us lark rez him as well. He copies anything and he fits the normal clone size and mana!!!!! This guy is going to be incredibly strongly so I recommend picking up a copy if you can.
Dig Through Time many might not pay that much attention to this card in this format but delve is part of the mana cost of this card so it cannot be responded to when it comes to consuming your graveyard for mana to pay this. We do unfortunately use our graveyard quite a bit but I think this is a really solid draw effect as it reaches deep and grabs you a few good cards from the top 7 while pushing the rest of the stuff away. I don't think this is one to underestimate to be honest but I am still sort of feeling it out as it stands. Don't under estimate this one I guess is where I am on it right now.
Quiet Contemplation really a cool effect. I think this has some potential in a creature light control heavy build. It gives very interesting tricks but it would be really cool to do a cheap draw / cantrip effect and control the board at the same time with something like this. It would not likely fit my own build that well as the creatures often act as my defenses and the deck is not aggressive enough to use this sort of thing offensively.
Stubborn Denial an interesting cheap counterspell option. Jenara easily gets to the size that allows this to just outright counter things. I think it might have more relivance vs fast combo decks but I think its a legitimate counter option.
Hardened Scales really solid effect for those looking to cheaply buff Jenara. This makes it so that for every 1W you can pay you get 2 counters on her. You could also look into the Doubling Season effects but assuming you don't have something that interacts more powerfully with it the new Scales is much easier to drop into play and recur. It can be rezed off of Sun Titan as well which is always a plus.
Hooded Hydra assuming someone is doing a +1/+1 counter build he could be interesting. He isn't that impressive on his own but when you get to doubling counters or adding more counters outside of his own abilities it gets a bit more impressive.
See the Unwritten similar to Summoning Trap. It is sort of awkward though because it is a sorcery for the same mana and generally speaking even if you do get to pick three from the flip, how often are your second and third (assuming there are three creatures) as good? This seems a little lacking to me to be honest considering I have never really fealt that Summoning Trap has been any good.
Overall, Clever Impersonator seems like the easy addition and Dig Through Time has me still just sort of wondering at the moment. I think we ended up reasonably decent with this set considering it was a wedge based set its surprising to see something mono colored of the caliber of Clever Impersonator in here.
I have been sort of bad about keeping my own list up to date as I have not made the last set of changes to my list and they have just been sort of floating in no man's land for a while but I guess I will implement them now.
DECK CHANGES:
Path to Exile -> Unexpectedly Absent I have had some really good results in switching Path out for Unexpected to be honest. One game I was stringing together extra turns and I ended up using it on my own Snapcaster Mage to add another extra turn into the ones I was already taking. It has potential to set up your own creatures for another ETB trigger in some situations but its also really strong against the opposition as it can potentially tuck things in response to shuffle effects as well as just act as an emergency stall effect. Its relatively cheap to push around and its increased targeting capabilities have made me overall quite happy having it over Path. There is still something to be said about exile removal and ease of use of Path to Exile but I love having increased targeting and have so far enjoyed having it over Path to Exile.
Duplicant -> Wall of Reverence it might seem like an odd change but time and again siphoning and overly aggressive decks have proven to be an issue for this deck. There isn't a lot of sustaining lifegain effects in this deck as it stands and in trying to be a toolbox deck I have found I don't use Duplicant as much as I used to in general. The wall acts as an amazing blocker and dodges the protections that a lot of the common swords use (Sword of Fire and Ice / Sword of Feast and Famine). Its an odd move but I have found it gives me a great ongoing sustaining buffer against decks that push hard on life and or if I get low its a means to get back into a safe range. Its an amazing defensive tool and so far I have enjoyed having access to it. There are games where it is not needed for sure but there are some games where its a high priority tutor as well. Its ability to block is quite strong though in general paired with its lifegain it grants some great sustainability. With even just Jenara + the wall in play you can often control combat entirely.
Ephara, God of the Polis -> Clever Impersonator of the two gods, Karametra, God of Harvests seems to continue to do work for me where as Ephara seems to not quite have the same effect. I find myself tutoring for Karametra fairly normally but almost never for Ephara. I don't think that Ephara is bad but I need to make room for Clever Impersonator and my continued lack of interest in Ephara leads me to think I should cut her.
Actually, I have. The above wasn't just theory, rather from experience. Snapcaster was re-cocked several times last night and later Magus of the Future ripped out before a Supreme Verdict and then later still there beside Glen Elendra was Archaeomancer with Cyclonic Rift in the graveyard. It was Magic-Christmasland!
And then we ran out of time. . .
Flicker effects are usually better for ETB creatures, but Riptide works at instant speed and sometimes - as in the case of Snapcaster or perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant - you really want a bounce.
The OP has fewer Wizards than I do, so perhaps he's right to avoid it, but I'm just out for fun and - to me at least - Riptide is a hoot! And it's pretty cheap at $5 or less on eBay.
In fact, I have enough Wizards that I run Cavern of Souls for them and I'm even thinking of trying Diviner's Wand - it's fun to draw cards!
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Yea, that's a little more mana than I want to spend on it. Its not a bad effect I guess but for the mana its a little questionable. The wall has been working for me alright so far in testing and it does good at just turning swords other directions too so far.
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[Modern] Allies
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
why not both?
As it is, Reclamation Sage has a few pros and cons with Harmonic Sliver:
Pros:
One more power
Not as much of an issue against opposing clones
Vs sliver decks could be an issue
Cons:
We can potentially clone the sliver for better value
Its really a pros and con sort of game. I think we are light enough on artifact / enchantments that even if you are worried about opponents cloning the sliver we dont have nearly as many targets as opponents so its probably still a good thing. I think overall they feel about the same as I generally see no difference in performance between a 1/1 and a 2/1 but the cloning thing is also relatively minimal since I only run two clones as is. Its possible that if you run more clones or see more clones in your meta this call could be a bigger one. I might end up running both of them as I think they are both excellent but I dont really see any pro or con to sell me on one or the other offhand.
If I had to name one that is better all the time... Its probably the new Sage because I could see an issue with playing against a sliver deck coming up. I think its mostly minor either way but given the option to run one or the other the new Sage might be a little better all around but not by much and a lot of that is sort of situational drawbacks.
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[Modern] Allies
I was more or less saying that harmonic sliver interacts with clones in odd ways. If you have a Harmonic Sliver in play and then play a clone as a Harmonic Sliver, each copy of Harmonic Sliver has "When this permanent enters the battlefield, destroy target artifact or enchantment." This stacks and so you actually get two triggers of Harmonic if you already had one in play and cloned it. Its a good thing usually assuming you are the one cloning the sliver but it can be a bad thing if someone else plays a clone of it.
I dont know if that clarifies that much at all but slivers give all slivers abilities. This ability stacks when you have two of the same sliver so when a second Harmonic comes in it triggers its ability twice. If a third copy comes in you would get three copies of the ETB and so forth. Its usually an asset to me in this deck and I have seen relatively few backfires of this stacking process.
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[Modern] Allies
You don't consider the simpler mana requirement a pro, or for that matter, a con? One would expect the elf to be less expensive and easier to acquire for someone building anew. Not that the Sliver is expensive, but someone would probably give a fellow an uncommon from a core set.
There's certainly nothing wrong with running both, but one would have to replace something else then.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
i havent tested but it seems like a sound idea. any thoughts?
M15 Set Review:
WHITE:
Ajani Steadfast meh, he reminds me of a little bit of a cross between Ajani Goldmane and Elspeth, Knight-Errant but not in good ways you would want him to. This feels like a big step back in Ajani's design. He reminds me of Gideon, Champion of Justice in the just being bad.
Avacyn, Guardian Angel cool creature but its not really good enough for EDH play. No ETB and sub optimal for most white decks so moving on...
Ephemeral Shields I like the idea of a no mana up situation where you cast this but this is ETB so we dont really care about our creatures...
Heliod's Pilgrim from a budget friendly build, I really like this creature. Adding in a few Arrest type cards and using this as a cheap tutor for them could be really nice.
Hushwing Gryff owch this is going to hurt this deck. Still, this sort of thing is why we have robust answers in the deck. Just remove it and move on as soon as you can. Obviously it has no place in this type of deck unless you were to cut back on the ETB stuff and run it more of a general control build.
Resolute Archangel its a means to gain life. I don't think its good enough to run normally speaking but if you encounter a lot of aggro decks that focus on dropping your life total I suppose looking into some lifegain means is something to consider. My issue here though is that I don't think this is anywhere near the top of the list of things I would consider adding in that sort of a situation.
Return to the Ranks I am really sad that this couldnt have scaled to the 3 or less mark. Its interesting but its so limited I just dont see any room for this type of card. Its cool but its lack of scalability hurts its EDH playability.
Soul of Theros its super expensive to drop and use this guy in one shot. He has potential to be a nice buff but if you are looking for lifegain, I think there are better and if you are looking for an anthem I think there are better. This deck does pick up a lot of incidental ETB guys in play but the likelihood of swarming with this guy just isnt that good. Mirror Entity will be far superior to this guy if you are looking for a creature anthem effect.
Spirit Bonds kind of interesting as a card. Its possible to use this as a means of protecting Jenara though if you want to try some tech. I think its interesting but we arent really a token build. I also assume that the enchantment itself would get targeted and removed assuming you were using it to protect things.
BLUE:
Ætherspouts I think this is a very powerful effect, that said, I think it belongs in a deck more designed to play draw / go like Derevi or Teferi. This is a really cool toy but it costs a lot of mana to keep up as an option. It is also a lot more situational than Cyclonic Rift so... ehh.
Jace, the Living Guildpact when I first read his first ability I thought he drew a card as well and I was looking forward to him. He is a value over time walker and worse than JTMS who I also don't run because of the fact that he is a value over time walker. I wouldn't bother with this flavor but I could see situations where he could be interesting in some sort of UB re-animator or something like it.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist its a slower, creature based Proteus Staff that sacrifices instead of tucks. I think its honestly worse than Proteus Staff due to the fact that tucking opponents commanders was an option with the staff. That being said, you can sacrifice at instant speed and sacrifice puts your own creatures in a potentially better access position for abuse. Still... I think there are a lot of issues with her in general. If she had cost one less I might have given her a little more consideration due to Sun Titan's ability to rez but I just don't see it right now. I think its more likely that I would bring the Proteus Staff back in or go back to Lurking Predators for random value.
Mercurial Pretender a more expensive clone with an immediate return to hand effect. Its interesting but I don't like keeping 4 mana up for this type of ability in this deck. I could possibly see it in a draw go deck but overall I think its more of an interesting flavor card than one that will be strong in this format.
Polymorphist's Jest amusing effect. I like that it can turn a Craterhoof Behemoth charge around. I think its a really cool sort of blue fog but thats just not something I really see as being useful here. I think its got cool flavor but I don't see myself using it.
Quickling a blue Whitemane Lion! Its bounce ability isn't quite as good but it flies. I think its really cool that blue got this. I think its really cool that blue got this but don't know offhand where I would run this in EDH.
Soul of Ravnica really wizards... this mythic just seems like its a really bad miss as far as things go. The cost to activate is just so high and so restrictive.... I will just move on but... really?
GREEN:
Genesis Hydra I have spent more time griping about this than I care to. Its really bad Genesis Wave. Just don't bother...
Hornet Nest amusing design but it doesn't fit this deck.
Invasive Species interesting design for green but its just a bad Æther Adept in the end. Crystal Shard and so many others greatly outclass this guy but its interesting to see on a green creature I suppose.
Life's Legacy depending on how much you like dropping Jenara into things. I think this could be a solid draw option. As usual though I regret that this couldn't have been an instant but I understand the issue with making it as cheap as it is plus an instant. I think 3-4 mana is where an instant speed version of this needs to stay which is too much mana for it in my opinion.
Nissa, Worldwaker she really only fits in some sort of a stasis style of build in my opinion. That isn't what this is so I will just move on.
Phytotitan he seems really good in a sac to do things based build. The idea of throwing him into a Greater Good a few times really seems extremely painful. Again though, that isnt what this deck is though.
Reclamation Sage its another Harmonic Sliver for all useful purposes. There are pros and cons between both of them. If you are new or on a budget get this new guy as he will cost a lot less to obtain. I think its something to consider to run both of them but I don't feel like there is really one or the other between these guys that is a "better" for all general purposes.
Soul of Zendikar overpriced tokens.... pass
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard the fact that he has the title of "the Wandering Bard" and then they tagged rogue as his creature type bothers me more than it should... I think he is interesting but he is slow and very durdle. I think he resembles Jalira, Master Polymorphist in some ways but I think that she is stronger than he is. The fact that he has to crawl up the creature ladder starting at one mana really hurts him. He is like a really funky bad Birthing Pod.
ARTIFACTS:
Perilous Vault it might resemble Oblviion Stone at first glance but its really inferior in here for sure. Oblivion Stone destroys which allows us to reanimate and recover which this does not allow. We can Sun Titan O Stone back which we cannot with vault. Tezzeret can also fetch up a stone and still be alive which the vault cannot do. Then there is the whole fact that we can slow roll the stone and protect things which is not an option with the Vault. In the end, I think vault is more of an option in colors that have issues dealing with types of permenents and or gods. I think its cool that its going to be a thing but I dont think its worth consideration here. I think it is more of a card you consider when you are having a very specific sort of problem already that it helps fix.
Soul of New Phyrexia ehhh its interesting. Its not something I would play in a deck like this though.
And there you have my review of M15 for Jenara. I think Reclamation Sage and Hushwing Gryff are probably the best cards coming out in this set so sadly one of them hurts us quite a bit. Reclamation Sage is probably worth putting some consideration into but I don't know if I need both him and Harmonic Sliver in deck at the same time. I will give it some thought though but its always a pain to make cuts. Life's Legacy might be something I take a bit more of a look at as well just because of the potential to draw whole new hands for 2 mana but most of the big fatties in deck I would have some hesitation in dropping at sorcery speed. Its an interesting set for being a core though so I like that.
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[Modern] Allies
I'd still want some other good creature targets before I included Life's Legacy. I run even fewer fatties than the primer deck does and I want them to stay on the board and do work.
There are doubtless infinite nasty combinations for Life's Legacy in BG.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
1x Jenara, Asura of War
Land (38)
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Bant Panorama
1x Breeding Pool
1x Brushland
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds
5x Forest
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Hinterland Harbor
4x Island
1x Krosan Verge
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Nimbus Maze
1x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Aven Riftwatcher
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Body Double
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Farhaven Elf
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Meddling Mage
1x Mirror Entity
1x Mother of Runes
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Restoration Angel
1x Reveillark
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Sun Titan
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
Instant (16)
1x Bant Charm
1x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
1x Daze
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Force Spike
1x Mana Leak
1x Mana Tithe
1x Memory Lapse
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Nature's Claim
1x Negate
1x Remand
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Unexpectedly Absent
1x Birthing Pod
1x Skullclamp
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantment (5)
1x Aura Shards
1x Detention Sphere
1x Future Sight
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Oblivion Ring
Sorcery (5)
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Steelshaper's Gift
1v1 isn't really my game so my feedback might be a little off base due to that but I will try to gear my feedback for that angle.
You are running a very low mana curve with a good number of mana dorks. Have you considered adding mass land destruction effects like Armageddon to your list? I dont know how productive these effects are in 1v1 in relation to how effective they are in multiplayer but with your low curve and high dork count it feels like the type of list that might consider blowing up lands.
I feel like you could possibly use a few more solid threats or enablers in your list. Sadly a lot of the ones that come to mind arent extremely cheap to get. Rafiq of the Many, Finest Hour, and Silverblade Paladin.
If I were looking at this list from a perspective of multiplayer I would say that you might need more card draw but 1v1 is sort of an odd format in comparison as 1 for 1 removal gets you a lot further than it does in multiplayer. For multiplayer I also think you are too heavy on the mana dorks but I get thrown off when it comes to 1v1 and what they need.
All in all, my only real concern for this as a 1v1 deck is I guess the amount of dependance on Jenara as I see it. Outside of Jenara you have only a handful of creatures that actually seem like they would be threats. Like I said though, 1v1 isn't my strong area by any means though so I don't know how relevant my feedback is going to be offhand.
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[Modern] Allies
I'm considering taking out Bribery and counterspell for idk what. It's a great card but everybody I play with uses Homeward path, so its always on the field making Bribery less good. Am I just being silly and over cautious, should I just keep it in? Are there any other changes you would make?
1 Jenara, Asura of War
CREATURES (26):
1 Noble Hierarch (Judge Promo)
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Phantasmal Image (*)
1 Scavenging Ooze (promo)
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eternal Witness (*)
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phyrexian Metamorph (*)
1 Solemn Simulacrum (*)
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Restoration Angel
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Mystic Snake
1 Acidic Slime (*)
1 Genesis
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Deadeye Navigator (*)
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Sun Titan (*)
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Vorinclex, Voice of hunger
1 Craterhoof Behemoth (* + signed by Brad Nelson)
1 Terastodon
ARTIFACTS (12):
1 Relic of Progenitus (*)
1 Sensei's Divining Top (*)
1 Sol Ring
1 Darksteel Ingot (*)
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Lightning Greaves (*)
1 Swiftfoot Boots (*)
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Birthing Pod (*)
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Detention Sphere (*)
INSTANT (11):
1 Cyclonic Rift (*)
1 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Hinder (FULL ART)
1 Cryptic Command
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Chord of Calling
1 Krosan Grip (*)
1 Voidslim
SORCERY (9):
1 Ponder (FULL ART)
1 Farseek (*)
1 Kodama's Reach (*)
1 Cultivate (*)
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Green Sun's Zenith (*)
1 Natural Order
1 Austere Command
1 Bribery
PLANESWALKERS (1):
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
LAND (37):
All 3 colors
1 Command Tower
1 Seaside Citadel (*)
1 Reflecting Pool
1 City of Brass
Basic
3 Forest (unhinged)
3 Pains (unhinged)
3 Island (Unhinged)
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Temple Garden
1 Hollowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hinterland Harbor
Fetches
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
Utility
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Kor Haven
1 Homeward Path
1 Reliquary Tower (*)
Land Destruction
1 Strip Mine (*)
1 Wasteland
GW ELVES GW
UG INFECT UG
------- LEGACY -------
G ELVES G
UG INFECT UG
------- EDH Multi-Player -------
GWU Jenar, Asura of War GWU
I personally would not advocate cutting Bribery even in a homeward path heavy meta. You can always still target ETB creatures and its just very versatile for the mana. Even with a Homeward Path out I think a lot of times you can still play around it and just target another player. Often if you do not provoke a player who has homeward path they would prefer you to still have it as they can then take it away at will giving them the power so long as it stays in your control. This is assuming you arent running away with the game though as if you appear to be winning they will often do it just to put you back a bit. Overall though I would say play it more for the ETB triggers especially if you are having issues with having good targets.
Counterspell - I might suggest Arcane Denial. In my mind though its incredibly important to keep counters as cheap as possible and as easy to cast as possible. Arcane Denial has some negative card advantage to it but with normal multiplayer games a turn rotation brings you one card and opponents three cards so countering a key thing and resulting in a card for you and 2 cards for opponents is still less negative card advantage than just a turn rotation. Its a solid counter to consider in the two mana spot.
Overall looking at your list I notice a few things:
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[Modern] Allies
I made that section quite a while back so if its a little dated I apologize. Really there is no one correct way to build this deck from the ground up on a budget so whatever direction you want to take is fine. When I was building this deck the total price of the deck fell into the range of something like $1,300.00 or so for everything but these days the last I checked the cost of things is at least 1.5 times what I spent putting it together. The reprinting of the fetchalnds and shocklands helps though as that's a lot of pressure off of the landbase.
I cant bump my thread for another day yet so I will just do it here for now.
OMNICLONE!!!!!!!! I am looking forward to this bugger coming out as I would love another metamorph. I dont know what I am moving arround for now but the option to copy equipment, gods, and everything else as well as the fact that its super tutorable and easy to retrieve. This guy is going to be a great addition!!!!
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[Modern] Allies
Offhand, I haven't felt that Duplicant has been as needed since the inclusion of Ixidron. There is always the option of Gilded Drake answering in more or less the same way that Duplicant would as well so in a lot of ways he is expensive to drop and sort of redundant by several other cards. I have been testing Wall of Reverence in place of Duplicant for a little bit now due to a few pressure decks in my meta being a bit difficult to deal with long term. Its inclusion is a bit of a meta call but it does good work vs Purphoros, God of the Forge type decks. Ephara, God of the Polis also has not been doing as well as I had originally expected her to. She isn't bad by any means but I was sort of thinking I might be replacing her with Clever Impersonator when it comes out.
I ended up stealing someone else's Prophet of Kruphix via a Bribery last night and while I did win the game off of the back of it it was not my intention to get it but the thing I wanted was in his hand and at any point if I had been wrathed it would have been a no value Bribery. In my mind, that situation was an all or nothing situation where I win the game off of it or get like zero value from it which happened to work out for me but it was a winmore situation for me where I already was in the lead but sort of read that they did not have the answers for it offhand.
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[Modern] Allies
I was reading through this thread and I didn't really find anything about this even with the search function so forgive me if I am making you repeat yourself. Moving to the main question: I was wondering your opinion of Progenitor Mimic is? (He's not mentioned under creatures portion of the 1st post)
Based off what I've read and what you've stated as desired elements of this deck (e.g. ETB,Control,& goodstuff) I feel that Progenitor Mimic would be great addition to your deck. He's a bit expensive being 6 cost, but:
1) He's multicolor w/ green creature which you mentioned you'd like Green Sun's Zenith to have more targets so that he kinda fits the bill.(yes you'd have to pay 7 mana to get him, but he hits the field and can potentially answer threats.)
2) If using Green Sun's Zenith isn't your thing he can also be easily be tutored by Survival of the fittest, and your favorite card Fierce Empath so tutoring is available.
3) He plays well with the ETB creatures you have since he basically puts a token copy in every turn. (somewhere in this thread someone mentioned something about bouncing him to copy his own token so you have double token generation by copying his rule text and I believe you can bounce him again to clone his future tokens again to keep +1 the rule text). So he works well with Venser, Shaper Savant and to a lesser extent Venser, the Sojourner
4) He's 0/0 so he'll play well with Reveillark although not with Sun Titan
5) He can also soft-fix Ephara, God of the Polis for you by getting in that generating tokens each turn to provide the draw trigger.
Potential plays I can see:
Progenitor Mimic + any of our ETB guys = more ETB... what more do you need?
Progenitor Mimic + Duplicant (or even cooler clone cards like Clever Impersonator) = "Sup man!, I heard you like clone! So I put some clone in your clone so you can clone while you clone"
Progenitor Mimic + Eternal Witness + Time Warp (and friends) = for Inf turns, I know your deck doesn't pursue combos specifically, but I just wanted to point it out.
I don't know what card to suggest to take out.. however based off what I've play tested and read, maybe Brainstorm? (because if you follow your change log brainstorm conjurer's closet then Sylvan Primordial then Akroma, Angel of Wrath, I believe so putting a big creature back in might be an option) or Ephara, God of the Polis since she's not performing well, lastly maybe Skullclamp since its never really out when I do have the x/1's and when I do have it on the field it either sits unused and I forget about it but that might be a personal beef.
I'm interested in what your opinion on the matter is. I look forward to seeing your response.
It's a neat card, but is a very expensive clone and has to stay on the table for a whole rotation in order to get the real value out of it. If your meta is light on removal, go for it, but it also needs to be able to clone a good creature for you to get consistent value, although a repeatable ETB isn't that bad.
Regarding cloning clones, you can clone a Duplicant, but you can't clone a clever impersonator, phantasmal image, phyrexian metamorph, or any of those sorts of clones because they have base power/toughness of 0 and become the creature/permanent they copied upon entry meaning that you wouldn't be cloning the clone, but rather what it had become.
At 6 mana, it also has to compete with cards like Sun Titan, Consecrated Sphinx, Prime Speaker Zegana, Duplicant etc. on the curve, making it a really tough inclusion. It's CMC is too much to overcome, imo.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
koji_m - I see you are running the lark infinite. You could utilize Enlightened Tutor / Idyllic Tutor / Mystical Tutor / Intuition depending on how much you want to focus on executing it. Overall it looks like you worked hard to get the list together and you have most everything I myself run. You might look into grabbing a Krosan Verge perhaps for the list as I think it falls in more or less with the Evolving Wilds type of lands. It does allow you to fetch your shocks though which is nice. It looks like a great list though there really isn't anything I saw that looks like its unplayable or inferior to something else. The landbase still has a few holes in it but for the most part you have like 70% of what I would suggest getting for the landbase.
Grasslands and Flood Plain are probably superior to the Evolving Wilds lands due to their ability to fetch up shocks. They have the same one turn sort of unusable issue but the lands they fetch come in untapped so you can still get the basic in for an untapped or shock yourself. Probably a decent and cheap way to work off of your shocklands a bit more. I guess you could always run them together with the Evolving Wilds lands as well but they are probably worth looking into.
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[Modern] Allies
WHITE:
Abzan Battle Priest it can work in a budget list as a means of giving lifelink to Jenara. This is the sort of stuff you add to a budget list where you are using more or less what you have on hand though. I don't really suggest it overall but I guess in some ways its more robust than using lifelink. Budget decks often need to prioritize Jenara as their wincon though and he works as a cheap on hand sort of anthem for her to give a nice life cushion for attacking out.
Brave the Sands vigilance plus double blocking is a REALLY nice budget anthem for this deck. Jenara easily pumps up to the point where she is bigger than many attackers so the option to attack and defend PLUS double block is really nice. This seems like a really great budget card and to some degrees I see some merit in just playing around with this card. It makes your creatures a lot more efficient in combat.
End Hostilities its a 5 mana wrath effect. It has some merit vs heavy equipment decks but seeing as how I run equipment myself plus have plenty of access to removal for everything that this provides I dont really see it as anything special.
Feat of Resistance it could see some budget play as a means to protect Jenara. Keep in mind though that Counterspells will generally protect better but this one does come with a free +1/+1 counter and it can be used for evasion purposes if you would like. It is really nothing new as far as what it does but possibly combines the two in a more attractive way for those looking for a little bump up with their protection. Personally I feel like it makes more sense in a deck where the commander does not pump on its own though which makes me think that a different source of protection will likely better serve you in this deck.
Timely Hordemate while I find this guy really interesting and cool, I am really disappointed that they cut him off at 2 mana instead of three. There are still some great 2 mana targets in this deck but its limiting enough that I don't see a lot of point in using him in this list. He dodges lark and Sun Titan as far as being a target as well which makes me sort of all around frown.
Wingmate Roc the big issue here is that the token just doesn't really matter here. If the token also copied the ability to gain life it might be a different story but it means that even if you do manage to flicker him a bunch you still aren't really doing much. Size wise they are a bit odd for fliers as well but not strong enough to really be something that is menacing and when it comes to being blocked / blocking they make for odd sized creatures for this format.
BLUE:
Clever Impersonator this guy is really strong for a number of reasons. He is a creature which means we can tutor for and recover him much easier and he falls into the same mana range as most clones of 4 mana. He has the 0/0 size which lets us lark rez him as well. He copies anything and he fits the normal clone size and mana!!!!! This guy is going to be incredibly strongly so I recommend picking up a copy if you can.
Dig Through Time many might not pay that much attention to this card in this format but delve is part of the mana cost of this card so it cannot be responded to when it comes to consuming your graveyard for mana to pay this. We do unfortunately use our graveyard quite a bit but I think this is a really solid draw effect as it reaches deep and grabs you a few good cards from the top 7 while pushing the rest of the stuff away. I don't think this is one to underestimate to be honest but I am still sort of feeling it out as it stands. Don't under estimate this one I guess is where I am on it right now.
Quiet Contemplation really a cool effect. I think this has some potential in a creature light control heavy build. It gives very interesting tricks but it would be really cool to do a cheap draw / cantrip effect and control the board at the same time with something like this. It would not likely fit my own build that well as the creatures often act as my defenses and the deck is not aggressive enough to use this sort of thing offensively.
Stubborn Denial an interesting cheap counterspell option. Jenara easily gets to the size that allows this to just outright counter things. I think it might have more relivance vs fast combo decks but I think its a legitimate counter option.
Treasure Cruise interesting but I think in any case I would run Dig Through Time over it.
GREEN:
Hardened Scales really solid effect for those looking to cheaply buff Jenara. This makes it so that for every 1W you can pay you get 2 counters on her. You could also look into the Doubling Season effects but assuming you don't have something that interacts more powerfully with it the new Scales is much easier to drop into play and recur. It can be rezed off of Sun Titan as well which is always a plus.
Hooded Hydra assuming someone is doing a +1/+1 counter build he could be interesting. He isn't that impressive on his own but when you get to doubling counters or adding more counters outside of his own abilities it gets a bit more impressive.
See the Unwritten similar to Summoning Trap. It is sort of awkward though because it is a sorcery for the same mana and generally speaking even if you do get to pick three from the flip, how often are your second and third (assuming there are three creatures) as good? This seems a little lacking to me to be honest considering I have never really fealt that Summoning Trap has been any good.
Overall, Clever Impersonator seems like the easy addition and Dig Through Time has me still just sort of wondering at the moment. I think we ended up reasonably decent with this set considering it was a wedge based set its surprising to see something mono colored of the caliber of Clever Impersonator in here.
I have been sort of bad about keeping my own list up to date as I have not made the last set of changes to my list and they have just been sort of floating in no man's land for a while but I guess I will implement them now.
DECK CHANGES:
Path to Exile -> Unexpectedly Absent I have had some really good results in switching Path out for Unexpected to be honest. One game I was stringing together extra turns and I ended up using it on my own Snapcaster Mage to add another extra turn into the ones I was already taking. It has potential to set up your own creatures for another ETB trigger in some situations but its also really strong against the opposition as it can potentially tuck things in response to shuffle effects as well as just act as an emergency stall effect. Its relatively cheap to push around and its increased targeting capabilities have made me overall quite happy having it over Path. There is still something to be said about exile removal and ease of use of Path to Exile but I love having increased targeting and have so far enjoyed having it over Path to Exile.
Duplicant -> Wall of Reverence it might seem like an odd change but time and again siphoning and overly aggressive decks have proven to be an issue for this deck. There isn't a lot of sustaining lifegain effects in this deck as it stands and in trying to be a toolbox deck I have found I don't use Duplicant as much as I used to in general. The wall acts as an amazing blocker and dodges the protections that a lot of the common swords use (Sword of Fire and Ice / Sword of Feast and Famine). Its an odd move but I have found it gives me a great ongoing sustaining buffer against decks that push hard on life and or if I get low its a means to get back into a safe range. Its an amazing defensive tool and so far I have enjoyed having access to it. There are games where it is not needed for sure but there are some games where its a high priority tutor as well. Its ability to block is quite strong though in general paired with its lifegain it grants some great sustainability. With even just Jenara + the wall in play you can often control combat entirely.
Ephara, God of the Polis -> Clever Impersonator of the two gods, Karametra, God of Harvests seems to continue to do work for me where as Ephara seems to not quite have the same effect. I find myself tutoring for Karametra fairly normally but almost never for Ephara. I don't think that Ephara is bad but I need to make room for Clever Impersonator and my continued lack of interest in Ephara leads me to think I should cut her.
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[Modern] Allies