That's not just ramping. It's ramping an utility land, and untapped too! Plus all the extra things with more than 3 mana. I've played it today and it was great both time I had it and 1 time i topdecked it with an empty board where the closet would have been quite useless. And it seems so much better than oracle to me.
Good lord, when I saw "Oracle" in that hyper link I thought you meant Mul Daya, and I was ready to show you the door.
I am personally torn on Wargate. It is extremely versatile, but it is very slow/inefficient as a ramp spell, and we are already playing a deck that, in my opinion, spends too much time ramping for three mana with utility already. Wargate at instant speed is very playable, but as a sorcery... I mean, what is it? Is it a poor man's ramp spell, a poor man's Chord of Calling, or a poor man's Stroke of Genius? It is all types of versatile, but none of the function are even average for their cost. And at sorcery speed? This makes it poor as a toolbox card, because answers tend to matter more if they can utilize the stack. Where Wargate really shines is when we cast if for big mana, but at that point it is largely win-more, because it means we've stopped the combo decks from comboing (I mean, seriously, but the time we get to eight mana or so, the UGx combo ramp decks have been there for 4+ turns), we've stopped the aggro decks from swarming (again, if they haven't killed us by the time we hit eight mana, our card advantage engines and toolbox precision become overwhelming), and if we are somehow forcing a large X spell sorcery through the control decks, they must be on their heels as well. It just doesn't strike me as a card that adds to our win percentages in almost any scenario, despite looking shiny on the surface. This is a card hit hard by the banning of Primeval Titan, because we just don't hit that critical mass of mana the way we used to (Karametra can get us there, but are a fraction of the speed). The banning also means we have to cut the number of utility lands we used to run, making Wargate worse as a land tutor. Sigh, if only Dryad Arbor triggered Karametra, I would suggest the Arbor/GSZ connection, but what can ya do?
Edit: For ramping on three or fewer mana, perhaps the likes of Copy Artifact and Sculpting Steel could use consideration? I know I love when my opponents turbo into that turn two Gilded Lotus when I can follow with either of those
So.... spoilers so far have not really been for this deck Ajani is in color but his ability is designed more for standard / limited so I wont bother doing a review for him. Ajani's Presence is also sort of cool but since we are ETB based it seems sort of like it doesnt matter most of the time.
Back to the issue of Conurer's Closet. The card hasn't been working out for me so I wanted to kick some things around and see if anyone had any input on them. I was just going to sort of mention the cards I was considering and why and I figured I would see if anyone had input on it.
Brainstorm its a good solid filter and I have a TON of shuffle effects so its a nice fast way to filter the hand. It seems like a safe card to add and while I dont think I would really be abusing it I can reliably shuffle so its a cheap filter style of card.
Ghostway it gives potential to dodge a wrath and allows over extension into a bunch of extra ETB triggers. Its a solid card and its cost to use is fairly reasonable. I sort of feel like if I wasnt getting at least three creatures to flicker with it though I would be sort of disappointed.
Coiling Oracle I haven't ever encountered a situation where I was disappointed to see it and that's something useful but at the same time its a small effect and when you are topdecking and hoping for something big it can be less impressive. When things are going bad its ok but its primarily only good when things are going good.
Arcane Denial its probably the next counter I would consider. If I am using a creature tutor I already have access to two different counter sticks so its not really that much of a plus to consider Mystic Snake and I would rather the cheap and ease of use over the potential for abuse.
Unexpectedly Absent I have enjoyed the versatility of the spell in other decks but I have mainly played it in draw / go style of decks so far. I like how its versatile in what it can target and you can tuck any permanent on someone for two mana if you catch them with a search on the stack. Its been really solid in my other decks so far.
Wargate I have some concerns with its use in early games. If I was running more utility lands it wouldn't be as much of an issue but in an opening hand its mostly a 3 mana farseek.
I was sort of leaning towards the idea of Ghostway or Unexpectedly Absent offhand to be honest in part because I haven't ever tried either in here before. I see Ghostway having a bit more synergy with the deck offhand so I guess as I stand, I am sort of taking a look at that. Thoughts?
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Ghostway is pretty awesome with Eternal Witness but it also removes the counters from Jenara. It's also really bad if people play Stifle cards in your meta. Anyways that's my vote (I think I've brought it up before at some point).
You can also exile all your creatures EOT, untap and cast a sweeper which is nice.
Coiling Oracle is at the top of my list among the cards you listed. It sets up our board for bigger plays next turn, plays such as: Venser, the Sojourner, Skullclamp with Sun Titan, Natural Order into something bigger, pitchable to Survival or Fauna Shaman, there's just a lot of things we can do with it and at worse Coiling Oracle gets us another card. Similarly I'm pretty high on Elvish Visionary.
Ghostway is pretty awesome with Eternal Witness but it also removes the counters from Jenara. It's also really bad if people play Stifle cards in your meta. Anyways that's my vote (I think I've brought it up before at some point).
You can also exile all your creatures EOT, untap and cast a sweeper which is nice.
I am likely to give it some playtesting if for no other reason because I haven't played it in here yet and many of the cards I am considering I have before. I will probably wait until the set finishes spoiling though just for convenience in case there is something that needs to be added more though.
Coiling Oracle is at the top of my list among the cards you listed. It sets up our board for bigger plays next turn, plays such as: Venser, the Sojourner, Skullclamp with Sun Titan, Natural Order into something bigger, pitchable to Survival or Fauna Shaman, there's just a lot of things we can do with it and at worse Coiling Oracle gets us another card. Similarly I'm pretty high on Elvish Visionary.
I know what you mean and its a solid card, I sort of want to get some testing with new cards in though just so I am not theorycrafting on some of these cards. Oracle / Visionary effects are very nice though and I have liked it in the past. I will probably give Ghostway a shot though assuming something better doesn't get spoiled instead.
what about restoration angel? it's a creature, can counter a removal and reuse a etb effect.
I have played Restoration Angel when it was in standard, in modern, and in this list before. My issue with it is that a lot of the value behind the card is behind blinking a spot removal and then behind the value of the 3/4 flash body. In EDH, I had a hard time making the 3/4 flyer feel like it mattered was my issue. If I want a flicker effect, its just not where I want to be as I had a hard time abusing a 3/4 and flickering it only achieves flickering another creature so it was hard to really abuse. My end consensus was that the 3/4 just didn't do enough damage to the high life totals that makes it a decent cards in the formats it does see play in. Increased life totals and reduced spot removal in this format hurt it. Our creatures are primarily ETB as well so most of them dont draw spot removal anyways. Jenara, Consecrated Sphinx, and Sun Titan are probably the only real targets in my own list that are likely to draw spot removal and it cant even flicker Jenara. In the end, I ended up cutting it for a counterspell as outside of flickering an ETB trigger, it just didn't measure up for me.
I like it as a card, it just didn't do enough and in too many situations it did not function how I needed it to for this deck.
Yes, I am boring. I vote for brainstorm. It is the most versatile card of them all. It is NEVER bad. It protects your hand. It extends your hand, if you are really desperate and need an answer, ASAP! It sets up coiling oracle(oops) and Oracle of Mul Daya. With that many shuffle-effects it ups the quality of each card in your deck. Getting rid of extra-land, looking for needed lands.... Stoneforge Mystic ETB-Trigger, but the equipment is in your hand? Brainstorm for an extra-card and fetch that equipment again!
I even cut a land to include the poor man's brainstorm: Ponder. Summary: Brainstorm is not the most interesting choice here. But there are so many uses and such a little drawback, if you have to play it suboptimal. This card doesn't win the game, it just make's the deck better.
Brainstorm really sort of makes the most sense just because it always does a great job at any point in the game. The deck functions well on its own already so really just anyway to increase consistency is what I should be looking for and while Oracle could be measured on a similar basis, I think Brainstorm does a better job of setting my hand up where as oracle is more about incremental value brainstorm sets up my hand for cheap. I will probably just go that direction for now as it increases consistency and is incredibly easy to multi task in a turn.
DECK CHANGES:
Conjurer's Closet -> Brainstorm closet has been very awkward in most every situation I have seen it. It lacks the ability to theft back Gilded Drake like Venser does and has no crazy ult that takes over the game. As much as I wanted it to be Venser PW #2 it just wasn't. Brainstorm isn't anything huge but it very cheaply increases my hand quality. It is very useful with shuffle effects as well as topdeck matters effects like Oracle of Mul Daya. I dont feel like I am really missing anything in the deck currently though so I feel like just a cheap hand improvement effect like Brianstorm will work just fine.
I am going to start getting the cards together to make this deck. I'm completely sold, and the fact that the "research" for this deck has gone on for almost 4 years, is awesome. The landbase is going to kill me though (but I did make note of the budget options you made in your original post)
I am going to start getting the cards together to make this deck. I'm completely sold, and the fact that the "research" for this deck has gone on for almost 4 years, is awesome. The landbase is going to kill me though (but I did make note of the budget options you made in your original post)
There is some great testing done by a lot of people here. Feel free to shoot any questions you might have our way and I am sure someone will answer them. Some of the budget stuff might be a little dated at this point as I think when I wrote that the Zendikar fetchlands were still reasonably costed and now the old ones that might be offcolor might be more reasonable to obtain depending on which ones you look at.
Lightning Greaves / Swiftfoot Boots in my opinion are more of cards to be utilized for their haste portion rather than the hexproof. When it comes down to it, applying shroud / hexproof at sorcery speed really only stops sorcery speed removal and maze effects from hitting you of which its sort of a narrow protection. In response to the equip cost, you will likely see the spot removal effect if its something worth protecting and you still have to worry about wraths. In my opinion, the benefit of haste isnt that much and Jenara is cheap enough to cast that I can easily repeat cast her several times so I dont worry about defending her. Its honestly easier to just do other things than it is to try to worry about protecting her as a commander as the protection they give, is sort of minimal in my own opinion of the cards. The reason to pack the boots is generally to piggyback on a cheap haste outlet and I just dont value haste enough in this list to justify their additions.
Lifegain - I dont pack all that much lifegain in here but there are a lot of cards that could be considered if you need some sustain from aggro:
Batterskull its not bad in that its a fairly decent card. I dont see much additional synergy in here other than possibly a vigilant beater on Jenara but its a good card.
Loxodon Warhammer it doesnt really fit well in here other than having a few tutors for equipment / artifacts in here. It seems ok in general but not great.
Umezawa's Jitte its got some versatility and gaining life is an option here.
True Conviction it scales combat up quickly and adds a lot of extra output + lifegain.
Courser of Kruphix some small lifegain but it also helps with some card advantage.
Momentous Fall draw and life. Its one shot though which is unfortunate.
Primeval Bounty versatile card that offers a lot of different utility. It seems like it would work well with the GW god too.
Pulse of the Fields I wouldn't suggest this unless it proves to be a continuous issue. This card is decent as just a mana dump to recover life loss and it usually works since the red decks dont tend to take much damage in the early game.
Wall of Reverence I run this in my Obzedat deck and it can gain a TON of life especially with the fact that Jenara can scale her power. Its on a stick as well so it blocks well and its tutorable / easily rezed.
Of the options, I would probably toy with Wall of Reverence / Primeval Bounty as some of the ones I would look at. I am not as keen on the lifegain equipment offhand but it wouldn't be terrible to include one of them just for options but it really depends on how hard the red decks are hitting you for life.
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Hey ISB you got a set review for the primer yet? I'm wondering if Kruphix looks cool for you. I'm on the fence so far.
It takes a bit more time to do since this is a multi colored deck but here you go:
WHITE:
Ajani's Presence being that we are ETB based, protecting a lot of the creatures in here is sort of meh. This also only protects from specific type of wraths. Utilize Counterspells or Ghostway instead is sort of my opinion here because it just doesn't fit the deck well and is too conditional for this list.
Banishing Light its essentially Oblivion Ring with less versatility. I dont think much of Oblivion Ring in multiplayer EDH so by default I dont care much for this card. I can delve further into my thoughts if anyone wants them but in general O Ring doesn't work well in multiplayer EDH.
Deicide too situational in my mind. I would rather run Return to Dust, Revoke Existence, and possibly even Altar's Light if it came to it over this card. Its wayyyyyyyy too narrow in use. If you are having issues with opposing gods, consider some theft effects, tuck answers, and Return to Dust.
Godsend lifetotals are bigger and so taking 3 + creature damage in life isnt that hard. It really needed to do something on connecting to players as well for it to be something worth considering in EDH. Its really cool flavor wise but inflated lifetotals make this really meh here. Run a sword instead is sort of going to be my answer here.
Quarry Colossus oddly I like the flavor of this card. Its obviously not strong enough to include but if it had cost a little less mana, I would probably throw it a consideration. If it had cost one less mana it would function a bit more like Duplicant which is sort of interesting. Its hard to get a high plains count though in a three color deck even with good duals though so.... no but its a cool card in my mind.
Skybind its an interesting card that reminds me a lot of Astral Slide with a more manageable trigger to it. Outside of randomly being ETB with a bunch of enchantments though I dont see it working. Its a cool card but I would have a hard time seeing a deck it could really work with in EDH offhand. Still, I love Astral Slide so bravo if anyone makes it work. It does trigger a flicker when it comes in though so it could be used by budget players especially if they happen to have a few more enchantments than I do in their lists.
BLUE:
Dictate of Kruphix we aren't running hug or manipulation through draw so I dont plan to say much here.
Hour of Need its a really cool instant. When it comes to using it for removal of threats though, it costs a lot of mana. It can be used to turn your creatures into 4/4 beaters at instant speed but it exiles them and costs a ton of mana to really make it scale. Overall, its just too much mana and too much downside to be used as reasonable removal outside of possibly mono blue or given a reason to run it. Super cool uncommon though, I dig the flavor.
Interpret the Signs kind of a cool flavor card but Recurring Insight blows this thing out of the water every time still. Its something that could be considered in a budget deck but... Recurring Insight is cheap too so its unlikely that I would play it at all outside of having a budget list and just happening to own one.
Polymorphous Rush I think its an interesting card. Its one of those situationally really cool cards. Imagine your opponent has a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and you strive this on your creatures to be copies of it and make a bunch of copies of Sun Titan for a turn. The biggest problem is that its a multi variable type of card where it takes a lot of correct setup for it to ever work. Its a cool card to pipe dream about the perfect setup for it but in all reality its too impractical to really use. Its a fun what if sort of card though.
Pull from the Deep cool card but we can abuse creatures so its more likely to just run Archaeomancer and plan on being able to abuse, tutor, and rez him.
Scourge of Fleets it feels like a really bad Ixidron to me. It costs a ton of mana and they get their creatures back to hand to re-trigger ETB effects. Perhaps... if they had given it flash and made it cost less I would consider it but its just way too situational as it stands. Its probably stronger to consider Kederekt Leviathan in here considering we run ETB guys ourselves.
Thassa's Ire its a cool mana dump effect but not strong enough to get any sort of consideration from me.
GREEN:
Consign to Dust its a cool card but its unreasonable to expect to get more than 2 things with this. There are just more effecient means to get two art / enchantments than this so thats my issue here.
Eidolon of Blossoms draw a card on ETB and it draws cards in the future as well. I dont run enough enchantments to really consider it since its essentially Elvish Visionary for 4 mana which isn't very good on its own. It really depends on how many enchants you run as to if it can be decent but if you have some expectation of drawing 3+ cards with it I think its really solid as its easy to tutor and can be recurred off of lark. My own consensus is that it doesn't fit in my list but I dont think its out of the realm of possibilities in a deck similar to my own but with more enchantments.
Heroes' Bane mostly a bad Kalonian Hydra since it lacks trample and its unlikely you would want to be paying its ability more than once a turn. Strict beaters are usually bad anyways.
Nessian Game Warden its a cool card with a cool ETB effect. Its price isn't totally unreasonable and it comes on a reasonably large stick. I think its a cool card but for the mana you can get a lot in EDH so I probably wouldn't run it outside of a budget deck looking to fill slots but its still a cool card. The downside is that a budget deck wont have the landbase to maximize how far it can dig down so.... it sort of cuts into its potential there too. Still, cool card.
Setessan Tactics its a deck of mostly 1/1 creatures so... its hard to really justify this card. We also have access to Swords / Path so... no.
MULTICOLORED:
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes hes... ok but hes a value over time walker and I dont care much for those in multiplayer EDH. The ability to draw additional cards is still just too unpredictable for this format in my mind. He is a bit like Garruk, Caller of Beasts but I think Garruk, Caller of Beasts is stronger of the two. In this format, I would only want to be using his search for cards option and Garruk does that better.
Kruphix, God of Horizons my big question is what are you trying to do with the mana you are saving? This ability is really only useful for big X mana spells and on a whole, I dont much care for them as I feel like they take away from a synergistic deck. I run Sphinx's Revelation in here but its nothing nearly enough for me to feel this god would be useful to me.
OTHERS:
Mana Confluence I dont feel that City of Brass is that strong of a card in general. If you are looking to run alternative options for your landbase, city of brass effects are ok but with the price tag of this card currently, I would sell it and go get other lands to put in the deck if you have one sitting around.
As it stands, I dont have intentions of including anything from Journey in this deck at this time. There were a lot of flavorful cards that I think are really cool and I enjoy playing with them in limited but I dont feel like the set as a whole really went with a strong creature ETB presence. The 5 gods that came out in Journey were a bit of a let down for me from an EDH perspective as well. There are a few gems in journey but I sort of feel like they belong in very specific decks offhand and I just couldn't justify any of the cards to be included here currently. Here is to hoping for something from Conspiracy / M15. I really like the flavor of some of the Journey cards but that's more from a limited perspective than anything.
Thanks for the effort, I suppose I could have just asked, you gonna use anything new? lol appreciate it still.
No problem. I try to do set reviews regardless of if I have changes or not though so it was just me being a little lazy because Jenara takes longer to do set reviews for than my mono colored decks. Sometimes doing the reviews helps me put some cards in perspective as well as it makes me weight a lot of cards I might have overlooked for additional possible uses.
He is. One of the bigger downsides though is that he is a bit slow to go active so he really wants haste or to be flashed into play. I cant easily dismiss him since he is essentially a ghostway effect on connect which is strong but the fact that he is slow out of the gates and maze effects hit him also hurt. He does work well with extra turns though and could establish an infinite loop easily with witness. He will likely need some testing but his biggest downside right now is that he really wants haste.
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Yea sorry, I was in a hurry ^^. If I undestand right what you mean you can't do it because when you can flash the angel you have alredy chosen the targets for Brago; and even if it was not a targetting ability it would still not work because if you flash the angel in response of Brago's trigger the angel ability resolves first, exiling 3 targets, then brago's ability resolves and flickers the angel which would return the exiled creatures to the owner's hand. So you can't exile the creatures forever. Sorry for the fast answer, hope this clarifies. I'll come back later to discuss.
You bring up a good point about the when targeting a happens for Brago, King Eternal's ability. Since you run Crystal Shard I thought I'd explain the Angel of Serenity interaction. When Angel of Serenity resolves both triggers are put on the stack. The leave trigger should be placed on the stack first. Next add the exile trigger. Let the exile trigger resolve. Before the leave trigger resolves add a Crystal Shard ability targeting Angel of Serenity. After that resolves the leave trigger is all that is left on the stack which fizzles due to Angel of Serenity no longer in play. The creatures are exiled permanently. This also works with Fiend Hunter and others with two abilities that resolve. I also suspect it is the reason Banisher Priest has one ability.
Naethyn, the issue with that setup is you would have to get Angel of Serenity's trigger under Brago's triggered ability and since its an ability that triggers on doing combat damage to an opponent there just isn't a way to get under it on the stack. Angel will resolve fully before Brago's ability can resolve so Angel will return all the targets to hand. You specifically need to flicker, bounce, sac, or exile the angel with its own ability still on the stack and without an ability that you can trigger at will at instant speed it wont do the exile portion.
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Yes, unfortunately that interaction is too situational and that's why I'm not running the angel, and I think it's the same for ISBPathfinder. It's definitely better in a list with many blink effects or sac outlets. As for Brago, King Eternal, well, i don't think it makes the cut in the deck as it is now, for the reasons ISB has alredy mentioned: it needs haste, flash or protection, and we don't have those things, except for Alchemist's Refuge and some counterspells that may keep him alive for the turn. However, combining him with the extra turns is very nice but it's also quite situational. I think if one wants to add him should make some changes for the deck, something like Lightning Greaves or the likes are good with him, or maybe also Prophet of Kruphix.
Angel of Serenity is super easy to play in this deck. It replaced Akroma, Angel of Wrath for me. The interaction with Birthing Pod is great. When I get to 7cmc it is a choice between Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Angel of Serenity. If I choose Angel of Serenity with Birthing Pod it means I don't need removal and I'll usually exile 3 creatures from my own yard. When the angel leaves I get everything back. The leave trigger becomes something other players don't want to see resolve. When Crystal Shard is online the game is all but over. I have yet to find a card with such versatility that also has game finishing power.
Naethyn, the issue with that setup is you would have to get Angel of Serenity's trigger under Brago's triggered ability and since its an ability that triggers on doing combat damage to an opponent there just isn't a way to get under it on the stack. Angel will resolve fully before Brago's ability can resolve so Angel will return all the targets to hand. You specifically need to flicker, bounce, sac, or exile the angel with its own ability still on the stack and without an ability that you can trigger at will at instant speed it wont do the exile portion.
I agree. I should have posted this in my last post detailing Crystal Shard. When I worked it out it became apparent.
Good lord, when I saw "Oracle" in that hyper link I thought you meant Mul Daya, and I was ready to show you the door.
I am personally torn on Wargate. It is extremely versatile, but it is very slow/inefficient as a ramp spell, and we are already playing a deck that, in my opinion, spends too much time ramping for three mana with utility already. Wargate at instant speed is very playable, but as a sorcery... I mean, what is it? Is it a poor man's ramp spell, a poor man's Chord of Calling, or a poor man's Stroke of Genius? It is all types of versatile, but none of the function are even average for their cost. And at sorcery speed? This makes it poor as a toolbox card, because answers tend to matter more if they can utilize the stack. Where Wargate really shines is when we cast if for big mana, but at that point it is largely win-more, because it means we've stopped the combo decks from comboing (I mean, seriously, but the time we get to eight mana or so, the UGx combo ramp decks have been there for 4+ turns), we've stopped the aggro decks from swarming (again, if they haven't killed us by the time we hit eight mana, our card advantage engines and toolbox precision become overwhelming), and if we are somehow forcing a large X spell sorcery through the control decks, they must be on their heels as well. It just doesn't strike me as a card that adds to our win percentages in almost any scenario, despite looking shiny on the surface. This is a card hit hard by the banning of Primeval Titan, because we just don't hit that critical mass of mana the way we used to (Karametra can get us there, but are a fraction of the speed). The banning also means we have to cut the number of utility lands we used to run, making Wargate worse as a land tutor. Sigh, if only Dryad Arbor triggered Karametra, I would suggest the Arbor/GSZ connection, but what can ya do?
Edit: For ramping on three or fewer mana, perhaps the likes of Copy Artifact and Sculpting Steel could use consideration? I know I love when my opponents turbo into that turn two Gilded Lotus when I can follow with either of those
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Back to the issue of Conurer's Closet. The card hasn't been working out for me so I wanted to kick some things around and see if anyone had any input on them. I was just going to sort of mention the cards I was considering and why and I figured I would see if anyone had input on it.
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[Modern] Allies
You can also exile all your creatures EOT, untap and cast a sweeper which is nice.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I am likely to give it some playtesting if for no other reason because I haven't played it in here yet and many of the cards I am considering I have before. I will probably wait until the set finishes spoiling though just for convenience in case there is something that needs to be added more though.
I know what you mean and its a solid card, I sort of want to get some testing with new cards in though just so I am not theorycrafting on some of these cards. Oracle / Visionary effects are very nice though and I have liked it in the past. I will probably give Ghostway a shot though assuming something better doesn't get spoiled instead.
I have played Restoration Angel when it was in standard, in modern, and in this list before. My issue with it is that a lot of the value behind the card is behind blinking a spot removal and then behind the value of the 3/4 flash body. In EDH, I had a hard time making the 3/4 flyer feel like it mattered was my issue. If I want a flicker effect, its just not where I want to be as I had a hard time abusing a 3/4 and flickering it only achieves flickering another creature so it was hard to really abuse. My end consensus was that the 3/4 just didn't do enough damage to the high life totals that makes it a decent cards in the formats it does see play in. Increased life totals and reduced spot removal in this format hurt it. Our creatures are primarily ETB as well so most of them dont draw spot removal anyways. Jenara, Consecrated Sphinx, and Sun Titan are probably the only real targets in my own list that are likely to draw spot removal and it cant even flicker Jenara. In the end, I ended up cutting it for a counterspell as outside of flickering an ETB trigger, it just didn't measure up for me.
I like it as a card, it just didn't do enough and in too many situations it did not function how I needed it to for this deck.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Conjurer's Closet -> Brainstorm closet has been very awkward in most every situation I have seen it. It lacks the ability to theft back Gilded Drake like Venser does and has no crazy ult that takes over the game. As much as I wanted it to be Venser PW #2 it just wasn't. Brainstorm isn't anything huge but it very cheaply increases my hand quality. It is very useful with shuffle effects as well as topdeck matters effects like Oracle of Mul Daya. I dont feel like I am really missing anything in the deck currently though so I feel like just a cheap hand improvement effect like Brianstorm will work just fine.
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[Modern] Allies
There is some great testing done by a lot of people here. Feel free to shoot any questions you might have our way and I am sure someone will answer them. Some of the budget stuff might be a little dated at this point as I think when I wrote that the Zendikar fetchlands were still reasonably costed and now the old ones that might be offcolor might be more reasonable to obtain depending on which ones you look at.
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[Modern] Allies
Lightning Greaves / Swiftfoot Boots in my opinion are more of cards to be utilized for their haste portion rather than the hexproof. When it comes down to it, applying shroud / hexproof at sorcery speed really only stops sorcery speed removal and maze effects from hitting you of which its sort of a narrow protection. In response to the equip cost, you will likely see the spot removal effect if its something worth protecting and you still have to worry about wraths. In my opinion, the benefit of haste isnt that much and Jenara is cheap enough to cast that I can easily repeat cast her several times so I dont worry about defending her. Its honestly easier to just do other things than it is to try to worry about protecting her as a commander as the protection they give, is sort of minimal in my own opinion of the cards. The reason to pack the boots is generally to piggyback on a cheap haste outlet and I just dont value haste enough in this list to justify their additions.
Lifegain - I dont pack all that much lifegain in here but there are a lot of cards that could be considered if you need some sustain from aggro:
Batterskull its not bad in that its a fairly decent card. I dont see much additional synergy in here other than possibly a vigilant beater on Jenara but its a good card.
Loxodon Warhammer it doesnt really fit well in here other than having a few tutors for equipment / artifacts in here. It seems ok in general but not great.
Umezawa's Jitte its got some versatility and gaining life is an option here.
True Conviction it scales combat up quickly and adds a lot of extra output + lifegain.
Courser of Kruphix some small lifegain but it also helps with some card advantage.
Momentous Fall draw and life. Its one shot though which is unfortunate.
Primeval Bounty versatile card that offers a lot of different utility. It seems like it would work well with the GW god too.
Pulse of the Fields I wouldn't suggest this unless it proves to be a continuous issue. This card is decent as just a mana dump to recover life loss and it usually works since the red decks dont tend to take much damage in the early game.
Wall of Reverence I run this in my Obzedat deck and it can gain a TON of life especially with the fact that Jenara can scale her power. Its on a stick as well so it blocks well and its tutorable / easily rezed.
Of the options, I would probably toy with Wall of Reverence / Primeval Bounty as some of the ones I would look at. I am not as keen on the lifegain equipment offhand but it wouldn't be terrible to include one of them just for options but it really depends on how hard the red decks are hitting you for life.
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[Modern] Allies
It takes a bit more time to do since this is a multi colored deck but here you go:
WHITE:
Ajani's Presence being that we are ETB based, protecting a lot of the creatures in here is sort of meh. This also only protects from specific type of wraths. Utilize Counterspells or Ghostway instead is sort of my opinion here because it just doesn't fit the deck well and is too conditional for this list.
Banishing Light its essentially Oblivion Ring with less versatility. I dont think much of Oblivion Ring in multiplayer EDH so by default I dont care much for this card. I can delve further into my thoughts if anyone wants them but in general O Ring doesn't work well in multiplayer EDH.
Deicide too situational in my mind. I would rather run Return to Dust, Revoke Existence, and possibly even Altar's Light if it came to it over this card. Its wayyyyyyyy too narrow in use. If you are having issues with opposing gods, consider some theft effects, tuck answers, and Return to Dust.
Dictate of Heliod meh. If this matters on average, you are better off with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or considering Craterhoof Behemoth. Its not a terrible card on whole but its definitely not for this deck.
Godsend lifetotals are bigger and so taking 3 + creature damage in life isnt that hard. It really needed to do something on connecting to players as well for it to be something worth considering in EDH. Its really cool flavor wise but inflated lifetotals make this really meh here. Run a sword instead is sort of going to be my answer here.
Quarry Colossus oddly I like the flavor of this card. Its obviously not strong enough to include but if it had cost a little less mana, I would probably throw it a consideration. If it had cost one less mana it would function a bit more like Duplicant which is sort of interesting. Its hard to get a high plains count though in a three color deck even with good duals though so.... no but its a cool card in my mind.
Skybind its an interesting card that reminds me a lot of Astral Slide with a more manageable trigger to it. Outside of randomly being ETB with a bunch of enchantments though I dont see it working. Its a cool card but I would have a hard time seeing a deck it could really work with in EDH offhand. Still, I love Astral Slide so bravo if anyone makes it work. It does trigger a flicker when it comes in though so it could be used by budget players especially if they happen to have a few more enchantments than I do in their lists.
BLUE:
Dictate of Kruphix we aren't running hug or manipulation through draw so I dont plan to say much here.
Hour of Need its a really cool instant. When it comes to using it for removal of threats though, it costs a lot of mana. It can be used to turn your creatures into 4/4 beaters at instant speed but it exiles them and costs a ton of mana to really make it scale. Overall, its just too much mana and too much downside to be used as reasonable removal outside of possibly mono blue or given a reason to run it. Super cool uncommon though, I dig the flavor.
Interpret the Signs kind of a cool flavor card but Recurring Insight blows this thing out of the water every time still. Its something that could be considered in a budget deck but... Recurring Insight is cheap too so its unlikely that I would play it at all outside of having a budget list and just happening to own one.
Polymorphous Rush I think its an interesting card. Its one of those situationally really cool cards. Imagine your opponent has a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and you strive this on your creatures to be copies of it and make a bunch of copies of Sun Titan for a turn. The biggest problem is that its a multi variable type of card where it takes a lot of correct setup for it to ever work. Its a cool card to pipe dream about the perfect setup for it but in all reality its too impractical to really use. Its a fun what if sort of card though.
Pull from the Deep cool card but we can abuse creatures so its more likely to just run Archaeomancer and plan on being able to abuse, tutor, and rez him.
Scourge of Fleets it feels like a really bad Ixidron to me. It costs a ton of mana and they get their creatures back to hand to re-trigger ETB effects. Perhaps... if they had given it flash and made it cost less I would consider it but its just way too situational as it stands. Its probably stronger to consider Kederekt Leviathan in here considering we run ETB guys ourselves.
Thassa's Ire its a cool mana dump effect but not strong enough to get any sort of consideration from me.
GREEN:
Consign to Dust its a cool card but its unreasonable to expect to get more than 2 things with this. There are just more effecient means to get two art / enchantments than this so thats my issue here.
Eidolon of Blossoms draw a card on ETB and it draws cards in the future as well. I dont run enough enchantments to really consider it since its essentially Elvish Visionary for 4 mana which isn't very good on its own. It really depends on how many enchants you run as to if it can be decent but if you have some expectation of drawing 3+ cards with it I think its really solid as its easy to tutor and can be recurred off of lark. My own consensus is that it doesn't fit in my list but I dont think its out of the realm of possibilities in a deck similar to my own but with more enchantments.
Heroes' Bane mostly a bad Kalonian Hydra since it lacks trample and its unlikely you would want to be paying its ability more than once a turn. Strict beaters are usually bad anyways.
Nessian Game Warden its a cool card with a cool ETB effect. Its price isn't totally unreasonable and it comes on a reasonably large stick. I think its a cool card but for the mana you can get a lot in EDH so I probably wouldn't run it outside of a budget deck looking to fill slots but its still a cool card. The downside is that a budget deck wont have the landbase to maximize how far it can dig down so.... it sort of cuts into its potential there too. Still, cool card.
Reviving Melody bad regrowth... I wont bother saying much more than that.
Setessan Tactics its a deck of mostly 1/1 creatures so... its hard to really justify this card. We also have access to Swords / Path so... no.
MULTICOLORED:
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes hes... ok but hes a value over time walker and I dont care much for those in multiplayer EDH. The ability to draw additional cards is still just too unpredictable for this format in my mind. He is a bit like Garruk, Caller of Beasts but I think Garruk, Caller of Beasts is stronger of the two. In this format, I would only want to be using his search for cards option and Garruk does that better.
Kruphix, God of Horizons my big question is what are you trying to do with the mana you are saving? This ability is really only useful for big X mana spells and on a whole, I dont much care for them as I feel like they take away from a synergistic deck. I run Sphinx's Revelation in here but its nothing nearly enough for me to feel this god would be useful to me.
OTHERS:
Mana Confluence I dont feel that City of Brass is that strong of a card in general. If you are looking to run alternative options for your landbase, city of brass effects are ok but with the price tag of this card currently, I would sell it and go get other lands to put in the deck if you have one sitting around.
As it stands, I dont have intentions of including anything from Journey in this deck at this time. There were a lot of flavorful cards that I think are really cool and I enjoy playing with them in limited but I dont feel like the set as a whole really went with a strong creature ETB presence. The 5 gods that came out in Journey were a bit of a let down for me from an EDH perspective as well. There are a few gems in journey but I sort of feel like they belong in very specific decks offhand and I just couldn't justify any of the cards to be included here currently. Here is to hoping for something from Conspiracy / M15. I really like the flavor of some of the Journey cards but that's more from a limited perspective than anything.
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[Modern] Allies
No problem. I try to do set reviews regardless of if I have changes or not though so it was just me being a little lazy because Jenara takes longer to do set reviews for than my mono colored decks. Sometimes doing the reviews helps me put some cards in perspective as well as it makes me weight a lot of cards I might have overlooked for additional possible uses.
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[Modern] Allies
just popping here to say thank you for your set review.
Pretty disappointing for our Jenara deck unfortunately...
Haven't had much time to play with the deck recently, so no new card questions/suggestions for now.
I hope to have some soon
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1482
He is. One of the bigger downsides though is that he is a bit slow to go active so he really wants haste or to be flashed into play. I cant easily dismiss him since he is essentially a ghostway effect on connect which is strong but the fact that he is slow out of the gates and maze effects hit him also hurt. He does work well with extra turns though and could establish an infinite loop easily with witness. He will likely need some testing but his biggest downside right now is that he really wants haste.
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[Modern] Allies
Edit: Alchemist Refuge casting Angel of Serenity at instant speed in response to the exile trigger on Brago, King Eternal targeting Angel of Serenity to remove 3 creatures permanently. Angel of Serenity keeps getting better and better.
An explanation of why not would add to this thread. Just saying you can't doesn't add anything.
You bring up a good point about the when targeting a happens for Brago, King Eternal's ability. Since you run Crystal Shard I thought I'd explain the Angel of Serenity interaction. When Angel of Serenity resolves both triggers are put on the stack. The leave trigger should be placed on the stack first. Next add the exile trigger. Let the exile trigger resolve. Before the leave trigger resolves add a Crystal Shard ability targeting Angel of Serenity. After that resolves the leave trigger is all that is left on the stack which fizzles due to Angel of Serenity no longer in play. The creatures are exiled permanently. This also works with Fiend Hunter and others with two abilities that resolve. I also suspect it is the reason Banisher Priest has one ability.
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[Modern] Allies
Angel of Serenity is super easy to play in this deck. It replaced Akroma, Angel of Wrath for me. The interaction with Birthing Pod is great. When I get to 7cmc it is a choice between Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Angel of Serenity. If I choose Angel of Serenity with Birthing Pod it means I don't need removal and I'll usually exile 3 creatures from my own yard. When the angel leaves I get everything back. The leave trigger becomes something other players don't want to see resolve. When Crystal Shard is online the game is all but over. I have yet to find a card with such versatility that also has game finishing power.
I agree. I should have posted this in my last post detailing Crystal Shard. When I worked it out it became apparent.