just a quick message from a long-time reader that never really posted in this thread :-p
I really wanted to thank you ISBPathfinder for keeping your awesome primer up-to-date.
I think that the biggest challenge isn't always to make a very nice primer (though you did), but to keep it accurate regularly.
So thanks a lot again for this !
On a personal note, my list is directly yours, adjusted to both Multiplayer and 1vs1 banlists (because I play both and want to avoid changing cards), as well as some cards still missing (Gilded Drake for instance, not to mention Capture of Ginzhu).
If someone is interested, I can post it.
@Pakito glad to hear from you. I try my best to keep things up to date but I have myself stretched over a lot of projects so it can be hard sometimes. Feel free to try replacements and swapping things out. Sometimes I just poke something in the list into something else to see how things go so dont feel like your list has to be mine exactly. Also, there are a few cheap options to replace Capture such as Walk the Aeons which I would generally suggest as a cheap replacement.
Feel free to ask any questions or give commentary anytime you want.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Thanks for your warm welcome
I'll post my list very soon, in order to get some tips from you and the other readers on the changes I've made (mainly due to banlists/budget/card availability).
Don't worry, I don't feel compelled to mimic exactly your list but I really have to say that it's one of the most beautiful "engines" that I've played until now. Everything feels so smooth and synergistic, it is truly impressive. It even seems a bit "unfair" from my opponents' view, with the ability to tutor almost every right card at the right moment
Not to mention all the ETB triggers that add up without drawing much hate on the table.
I'd be eager to hear how Ephara and Karametra fare in your list. I haven't made the move yet (especially because I don't own them for now...).
I must admit that I'm a bit dubious, particularly for Karametra. The upsides are definitely there, but they seem bad topdecks when behind.
The only games that did not perform well with this list was when I was low on lands in my starting hand, as the list is still quite expensive to get "rolling", and due to her 5 mana cost, Karametra will not help there.
I just played Magic for the last 4 days straight. Mostly cubing, commander cubing & reassembing my decks for constructed commander but for one of the games I decided to build your deck instead of one of my own. Made the following changes due to card availability (I tried to keep the list as close as possible)
I didn't have another Time Walk available or I'd have run something like Walk the Aeons instead but I never drew Recurring Insight so things probably played out about the same. Early game I drop a Sylvan Library which I'm counting on to hit land drops but it lets me down for a turn so to be safe I Worldly Tutor for STE to make sure I don't miss another land drop. I'm able to drop an Oracle of Mul Daya that lasts a couple turns and combined with Sylvan Library am able to build up some land. About mid game the monoblue deck starts to control the board (or stack more accurately) and has a Tormod's Crypt in play so I can't drop bombs due to counters and graveyard abuse is very limited due to Crypt. Fortunately there is a Karador player as well in a similar situation so we kind of durdle around hoping we don't get Crypt'd. I grab a Wood Elves instead of a Phantasmal Image with my Sun Titan for example so I can get value without getting my GY eaten. Late game we're finally able to power through the counters and I'm able to stick Elesh Norn. This isn't enough to finish however (and there's still a Tormod's Crypt in play) and I'm concered about losing my board as it's going to take me a good 3-4 turns to finish everyone. Going through the deck with a tutor I see that infinite turn combo is my safest route to a quick victory since I've copied a Crystal Shard with Phyrexian Metamorph and have Eternal Witness in hand (and Survival on the field). The Crypt makes this rather tricky however as both my Time Warp and Temporal Manipulation are in my GY. So I pitch Eternal Witness for something, and make a play that forces the monoblue player to Tormod's Crypt me (I think I tried to destroy it). In response I Chord of Calling for Karmic Guide fetching Eternal Witness, getting back Time Warp, go infinite turns and win.
So despite having to play around counters and GY hate all game I thought the deck was fun to play. I just really with there was a Craterhoof Behemoth to save me from all the hassle.
I just played Magic for the last 4 days straight. Mostly cubing, commander cubing & reassembing my decks for constructed commander but for one of the games I decided to build your deck instead of one of my own. Made the following changes due to card availability (I tried to keep the list as close as possible)
I didn't have another Time Walk available or I'd have run something like Walk the Aeons instead but I never drew Recurring Insight so things probably played out about the same. Early game I drop a Sylvan Library which I'm counting on to hit land drops but it lets me down for a turn so to be safe I Worldly Tutor for STE to make sure I don't miss another land drop. I'm able to drop an Oracle of Mul Daya that lasts a couple turns and combined with Sylvan Library am able to build up some land. About mid game the monoblue deck starts to control the board (or stack more accurately) and has a Tormod's Crypt in play so I can't drop bombs due to counters and graveyard abuse is very limited due to Crypt. Fortunately there is a Karador player as well in a similar situation so we kind of durdle around hoping we don't get Crypt'd. I grab a Wood Elves instead of a Phantasmal Image with my Sun Titan for example so I can get value without getting my GY eaten. Late game we're finally able to power through the counters and I'm able to stick Elesh Norn. This isn't enough to finish however (and there's still a Tormod's Crypt in play) and I'm concered about losing my board as it's going to take me a good 3-4 turns to finish everyone. Going through the deck with a tutor I see that infinite turn combo is my safest route to a quick victory since I've copied a Crystal Shard with Phyrexian Metamorph and have Eternal Witness in hand (and Survival on the field). The Crypt makes this rather tricky however as both my Time Warp and Temporal Manipulation are in my GY. So I pitch Eternal Witness for something, and make a play that forces the monoblue player to Tormod's Crypt me (I think I tried to destroy it). In response I Chord of Calling for Karmic Guide fetching Eternal Witness, getting back Time Warp, go infinite turns and win.
So despite having to play around counters and GY hate all game I thought the deck was fun to play. I just really with there was a Craterhoof Behemoth to save me from all the hassle.
I own a force of will and honestly I am not that impressed with it in 3 color decks that dont play draw / go. I find it a lot harder to have the blue card to exile for its alt cost in a 3 color that isn't blue heavy. I am more keen on the pact but I also dont see a lot of mass LD so take that with a grain of salt I guess. I run force in my Derevi list but that plans to play draw / go more so thats the sort of place I like force more since the option of paying 5 right then is usually preferred over paying 5 on my turn.
It sounds like it was a fun game all in all. I have in the past considered craterhoof but you really want to have like 3-5 creatures in play as a minimum to justify him in my thinking. I could see it being something that could be considered as an addition but I honestly kill a lot of people with just Jenara beats and random swords / extra turns. It sounded like a fun game though
I also managed to pick up like 3 foils for my deck. The dang project will never be done at the rate I am going with it lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I just played Magic for the last 4 days straight. Mostly cubing, commander cubing & reassembing my decks for constructed commander but for one of the games I decided to build your deck instead of one of my own. Made the following changes due to card availability (I tried to keep the list as close as possible)
I didn't have another Time Walk available or I'd have run something like Walk the Aeons instead but I never drew Recurring Insight so things probably played out about the same. Early game I drop a Sylvan Library which I'm counting on to hit land drops but it lets me down for a turn so to be safe I Worldly Tutor for STE to make sure I don't miss another land drop. I'm able to drop an Oracle of Mul Daya that lasts a couple turns and combined with Sylvan Library am able to build up some land. About mid game the monoblue deck starts to control the board (or stack more accurately) and has a Tormod's Crypt in play so I can't drop bombs due to counters and graveyard abuse is very limited due to Crypt. Fortunately there is a Karador player as well in a similar situation so we kind of durdle around hoping we don't get Crypt'd. I grab a Wood Elves instead of a Phantasmal Image with my Sun Titan for example so I can get value without getting my GY eaten. Late game we're finally able to power through the counters and I'm able to stick Elesh Norn. This isn't enough to finish however (and there's still a Tormod's Crypt in play) and I'm concered about losing my board as it's going to take me a good 3-4 turns to finish everyone. Going through the deck with a tutor I see that infinite turn combo is my safest route to a quick victory since I've copied a Crystal Shard with Phyrexian Metamorph and have Eternal Witness in hand (and Survival on the field). The Crypt makes this rather tricky however as both my Time Warp and Temporal Manipulation are in my GY. So I pitch Eternal Witness for something, and make a play that forces the monoblue player to Tormod's Crypt me (I think I tried to destroy it). In response I Chord of Calling for Karmic Guide fetching Eternal Witness, getting back Time Warp, go infinite turns and win.
So despite having to play around counters and GY hate all game I thought the deck was fun to play. I just really with there was a Craterhoof Behemoth to save me from all the hassle.
I own a force of will and honestly I am not that impressed with it in 3 color decks that dont play draw / go. I find it a lot harder to have the blue card to exile for its alt cost in a 3 color that isn't blue heavy. I am more keen on the pact but I also dont see a lot of mass LD so take that with a grain of salt I guess. I run force in my Derevi list but that plans to play draw / go more so thats the sort of place I like force more since the option of paying 5 right then is usually preferred over paying 5 on my turn.
It sounds like it was a fun game all in all. I have in the past considered craterhoof but you really want to have like 3-5 creatures in play as a minimum to justify him in my thinking. I could see it being something that could be considered as an addition but I honestly kill a lot of people with just Jenara beats and random swords / extra turns. It sounded like a fun game though
I also managed to pick up like 3 foils for my deck. The dang project will never be done at the rate I am going with it lol.
I agree on the Pact of Negation but I don't have one so FoW seemed like a reasonable fill in. It was in my hand at the end of the game and either would have been fine at least in that game.
It doesn't necessarily need to be Craterhoof Behemoth but I was hoping for a little clearer path to a quick victory. I was able to find it eventually but my meta is not one where you want to be trying to kill people with creature beats over the course of several turns. Jenara would have been really helpful but I had mana issues early and once those were resolved it just felt like I always had stronger plays to make. I was also really wanting to see a Stifle effect (for the Crypt) but I can understand not running one, it just would have been really nice to have that particular game.
I'm trying to foil out both my cubes and I started from scratch...no sympathy from me
I managed to get three games in with Jenara over the course of the last week. Its nice to have her back up and running as I had been sort of lazy about pushing the cards all back in one place after my Roon testing a while back.
Ephara, God of the Polis I got her in play one of the three games and I was very pleased by the draw she gave to me. It is a little bit awkward though just in the fact that you are always trying to hit a creature ETB on all of your turns but trying to space them out so you have creatures next turn too so it can get a bit wonky in that means. It did end up feeling sort of like a Phyrexian Arena though as I was fairly consistently hitting cards each turn. It is a little bit awkward because it doesnt care about hitting more than one creature a turn though so it was hard to really abuse but I enjoyed her so far.
Karametra, God of Harvests between the trigger here and the trigger for Ephara I think Karametra's triggers were a lot easier to manage as I could dump a few critters in one shot when I got her. I also really enjoyed having Top when I had Karametra in play as I was using her as a means to hit lots of lands and just grab the best of my topdeck each turn. I managed to get her into play around like turn 7 one game and I think I probably hit 7 - 10 lands with her. There were several turns that involved just chaining a few cheap creatures and clamping them off and what not to just power through my deck. I can still see some concerns about seeing her as a topdeck when the game isnt going so well but she adds a lot of synergy to the deck and was doing great things for me so far in my testing.
Conjurer's Closet - its been a little clunky so far. I still like Venser Planeswalker far more because of his deadly emblem option but I probably need to test more still.
Of the three cards so far, I have had the best results from Karametra, God of Harvests just because I can attempt to power through all of my creatures essentially as fast as I want and hit extra value from each of them. I dont have a lot of results from them yet though so I just have to get more results and see how things work out.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
To me Karametra looks extra sexy as a pod target off of a robot or something. Go get Karametra for one mana, abuse that turn, have tons of mana forever. So saucy I'll need some bread to mop it up afterward. I just picked up a copy for my Jenara list the other day but have not gotten to test it just yet. Glad to hear the good results. Gotta nab an Ephara, too. They are decently cheap right now, too.
Well, there are pros and cons to closet in comparison to the shard. One of the things I did not like about the shard was that it was harder to use in the early game. It has a pro that it can be Sun Titaned back and that Tezzeret can fetch it from the get go but it is also a lot more mana intensive to use. Closet picks up fast value and has less of an ongoing mana commitment. Shard is also better at protecting creatures and harassing opponents creatures but as I mentioned it has a higher mana commitment to it.
I am not really sold one way or another but I would be interested to know why you like shard more. I dont really see Vedalken Mastermind working out since its on a stick and thus would be more fragile + have summoning sickness.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have very limited experience with the deck (1 game so far) but I guess the biggest thing for me is that Crystal Shard protects my creatures at instant speed and I find the ability to bounce your opponents creatures to be very nice since you just have to leave the Shard untapped and have a blue mana and then they have to play around it even if you don't bounce their stuff. I'm often able to keep someone off 2 mana simply by having it active.
I also feel that were I to pilot this deck a lot I would definitely gravitate towards infinite turn combo as my main path to victory and the Shard is better at setting you up during your main phase instead of getting your walk EOT with the Closet.
Mastermind you are probably correct about but I like to keep him in mind for creature heavy builds as a tutor target.
Another notable interaction with Crystal Shard is responding to the leave trigger on Angel of Serenity. With 8 mana you can exile 3 creatures permanently on each of your turns.
Got another good game in last night with Jenara. I saw some gametime with both gods in the game. I ramped something like 8-10 lands with Karametra, God of Harvests in that game and absolutely ran away with the game due to it. At one point, someone took her out with an All is Dust but I managed to Karmic Guide her back in. I had her with top the whole time and it was kinda nuts. Ephara, God of the Polis was alright when I got her but it was much much later and I was sort of out of a hand when I managed to get her so it was harder to do much but I was just trying to pod off of Jenara for some value. The most I payed for Jenara in that game was like 13 mana lol. I sort of ran out of things to do at several points but Jenara was triggering the gods making her still relevant. I ended the game by hitting someone with a Sword of Feast and Famine floating my mana through combat, tapping a few more after untapping and Sphinxing for 19 (Purphoros had gotten me to like 6 life), and then proceeding to cast 2x extra turns and Jenara (from hand) post combat lol.
My results with Karametra, God of Harvests have been better than those with Ephara, God of the Polis so far but thats in part just because it is difficult to break Ephara outside of having a Sacred Mesa or something. I saw Conjurer's Closet at one point with a top peek and just shuffled it away.... I probably need to find a replacement as I just haven't been very excited for it so far.
Got another good game in last night with Jenara. I saw some gametime with both gods in the game. I ramped something like 8-10 lands with Karametra, God of Harvests in that game and absolutely ran away with the game due to it. At one point, someone took her out with an All is Dust but I managed to Karmic Guide her back in. I had her with top the whole time and it was kinda nuts. Ephara, God of the Polis was alright when I got her but it was much much later and I was sort of out of a hand when I managed to get her so it was harder to do much but I was just trying to pod off of Jenara for some value. The most I payed for Jenara in that game was like 13 mana lol. I sort of ran out of things to do at several points but Jenara was triggering the gods making her still relevant. I ended the game by hitting someone with a Sword of Feast and Famine floating my mana through combat, tapping a few more after untapping and Sphinxing for 19 (Purphoros had gotten me to like 6 life), and then proceeding to cast 2x extra turns and Jenara (from hand) post combat lol.
My results with Karametra, God of Harvests have been better than those with Ephara, God of the Polis so far but thats in part just because it is difficult to break Ephara outside of having a Sacred Mesa or something. I saw Conjurer's Closet at one point with a top peek and just shuffled it away.... I probably need to find a replacement as I just haven't been very excited for it so far.
you might want to consider Venser, the Sojourner not only is is first ability good for Ephara, but you can always ultimate or make jenara unblockable.
Do you think you need more ways to handle opponents' gods in the list? If they resolve and are not creatures i think there's just Venser which can do something. Maybe Oblation can be reconsidered? I guess it's more a meta-dependent thing but having another answer for them could be nice.
Gods and answers to them - its a little bit of a meta call I think. So far I haven't had too much of an issue with them but I suppose of them Purphoros would likely be the most concerning of them to me. It is possible to add Return to Dust, Oblation, and or Unexpectedly Absent as answers to them but the big thing to ask is which are being issues for you. Opponents getting extra value out of their gods is annoying and can make the attrition game harder to do but I think its still a little bit of a meta call as to how much of a problem they are. For me currently, I haven't had too much of an issue with the gods but occasionally a really solid hand on a Purphoros will become an issue for me as I dont run a lot of lifegain in here.
you might want to consider Venser, the Sojourner not only is is first ability good for Ephara, but you can always ultimate or make jenara unblockable.
He is in the list already. He does good work as I like his flicker and his ult is amazing.
So.... Conjurer's Closet is something I haven't been too happy with. I am contemplating its replacement right now but dont have anything nailed down. I could see myself going with some sort of vague answer like Oblation or another vague tutor like Wargate but I could also see myself just rolling Coiling Oracle back into the list and seeing where that goes. I dont really have anything nailed down but would be interested in input.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
oh, i haven't checked in a while. then @ISB why not more gods, like Heliod, god of the Sun
Heliod just doesn't have enough value in his abilities generally speaking for my own like. Vigilance + tokens is something that I dont really value much in this list although it would make it easier to attack and defend with Jenara generally speaking I can out clock anyone who might want to swing back at me and if I am not already attacking them with Jenara they usually dont want to give me a reason to turn her their way. I really like Heliod in my Derevi list but that's because vigilance plays a different role as does the commander there.
I have toyed with the idea of all of the Theros gods in here and none of the mono color gods fit well enough that I would want to include them. They are resilient and I will give you that but I dont get enough value out of them often enough.
EDIT: really offtopic but I had a game last night where I spent most of the game ramping up lands with Karametra. I then had a turn where I got to untap with just Jenara, a persisted Glen Elendra, and lands and I proceeded to kill 4 opponents outright from there chaining extra turns with lolz mana and a Sword of Feast and Famine lol. I brought Jenara up to one turn hitting opponents then tutored Prime Speaker Zegana in to draw me like 30 cards and chained extra turns FTW lol. Karametra has ended up providing far better ramp for me than Sylvan Primordial ever did for me in here.
Karametra is really good, my problem is I keep running out of land to fast, I have her in my hippo deck and she's fun and a much needed green creature for my combos ( combo into a combo into a combo, repeat) , how much are you netting?
I tutored her early last night and rode her through the entirety of the game so... it was like 5-7 lands probably in all since I wasn't very creature heavy in that game but it was really solid as I started with top in my opening hand. If I run out of targets, I think thats a good problem as it probably means I rode it out to the point that everyone is dying from the extra value.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This question may seem unanswerable, but give me your best opinion:
If you were to reduce this list, or make a list similar to it, that is just blue and white, who would you make the general? I was thinking Ephara, God of the Polis.
The reason I ask is because I have been playing your deck list for quite a long time now, and really appreciate how awesome it is, but my brother and I, who share a collection, are breaking down are other commander decks and making a deck for each of the ten dual colors.
Thank you, for your assistance and for the awesome list I have been able to appreciate over such a long time!
Well... its sort of a hard question because I hadn't really ever considered trying to do it. If I were to break the deck down into any 2 color legend within the colors though it would be more likely to be Prime Speaker Zegana. As for within UW though as you asked, I would probably consider Grand Arbiter Augustin IV as well as a commander. I have considered building an Ephara, God of the Polis deck and to be honest, when building around her its more practical to build around tokens than ETB creatures just because its easier to hit more triggers for draw. Based on that, I might push it more towards Grand Arbiter Augustin IV just for the constant ramp / disruption element but its hard to say since I hadn't really put much thought into it.
EDIT: Just bought several pimp alters off of gals from his Kamahl deck. I am looking forward to more pimp soon
In one of Sheldon's recent articles he suggested using Fleetfoot Panther with Karametra. your thoughts? I put him in my Bant build but have yet to really take advantage... people don't really care for a deck thats nothing but answers
In one of Sheldon's recent articles he suggested using Fleetfoot Panther with Karametra. your thoughts? I put him in my Bant build but have yet to really take advantage... people don't really care for a deck thats nothing but answers
It is possible to use it as a means to protect a creature from removal or repeatedly flicker itself for a god but I think Stonecloaker would be a more reasonable addition in either case since it costs the same mana, has less restriction on bounce, and has graveyard hate attached. It might push Stonecloaker as something more viable than Scavenging Ooze though potentially since I added two gods though. Its something I would need to give some thought.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well, my list varies a bit from OP, but I feel that this is a deck where you have to understand that even though you are tapping for , this is not a green ramp deck. This is a grindy, attritiony, toolbox deck. So you will often fall behind in the initial sprint for resources. But that isn't the game we are playing. Now, that said, I run at least Skyshroud Claim, and maybe a couple other ramp spells that aren't in OP, but I still don't expect to ramp with the comboish decks.
I agree with MrCoupon that this isn't normally what I would classify as a ramp deck so while there is still quite a bit of ramp, being the one with the most land in play isn't really the objective of what I was building. If you were to be wanting to push harder on your ramp package it would be an option. I also like the idea of wargate to be honest as I might be swapping my own Closet back out for it just for the nice versatility of it.
Animar can be annoying but like you said. His biggest advantages in this matchup are his speed and protection from a lot of our spot removal. Just do what you have to to slow him down until you can stabilize generally. I would say you can probably get away with chump blocking him and racing him with Jenara too as a possibility.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
just a quick message from a long-time reader that never really posted in this thread :-p
I really wanted to thank you ISBPathfinder for keeping your awesome primer up-to-date.
I think that the biggest challenge isn't always to make a very nice primer (though you did), but to keep it accurate regularly.
So thanks a lot again for this !
On a personal note, my list is directly yours, adjusted to both Multiplayer and 1vs1 banlists (because I play both and want to avoid changing cards), as well as some cards still missing (Gilded Drake for instance, not to mention Capture of Ginzhu).
If someone is interested, I can post it.
See ya all !
Feel free to ask any questions or give commentary anytime you want.
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[Modern] Allies
Thanks for your warm welcome
I'll post my list very soon, in order to get some tips from you and the other readers on the changes I've made (mainly due to banlists/budget/card availability).
Don't worry, I don't feel compelled to mimic exactly your list but I really have to say that it's one of the most beautiful "engines" that I've played until now. Everything feels so smooth and synergistic, it is truly impressive. It even seems a bit "unfair" from my opponents' view, with the ability to tutor almost every right card at the right moment
Not to mention all the ETB triggers that add up without drawing much hate on the table.
I'd be eager to hear how Ephara and Karametra fare in your list. I haven't made the move yet (especially because I don't own them for now...).
I must admit that I'm a bit dubious, particularly for Karametra. The upsides are definitely there, but they seem bad topdecks when behind.
The only games that did not perform well with this list was when I was low on lands in my starting hand, as the list is still quite expensive to get "rolling", and due to her 5 mana cost, Karametra will not help there.
Anyway, thank you again
-Fierce Empath
+Worldly Tutor
-Pact of Negation
+Force of Will
-Capture of Jingzhou
+Recurring Insight
I didn't have another Time Walk available or I'd have run something like Walk the Aeons instead but I never drew Recurring Insight so things probably played out about the same. Early game I drop a Sylvan Library which I'm counting on to hit land drops but it lets me down for a turn so to be safe I Worldly Tutor for STE to make sure I don't miss another land drop. I'm able to drop an Oracle of Mul Daya that lasts a couple turns and combined with Sylvan Library am able to build up some land. About mid game the monoblue deck starts to control the board (or stack more accurately) and has a Tormod's Crypt in play so I can't drop bombs due to counters and graveyard abuse is very limited due to Crypt. Fortunately there is a Karador player as well in a similar situation so we kind of durdle around hoping we don't get Crypt'd. I grab a Wood Elves instead of a Phantasmal Image with my Sun Titan for example so I can get value without getting my GY eaten. Late game we're finally able to power through the counters and I'm able to stick Elesh Norn. This isn't enough to finish however (and there's still a Tormod's Crypt in play) and I'm concered about losing my board as it's going to take me a good 3-4 turns to finish everyone. Going through the deck with a tutor I see that infinite turn combo is my safest route to a quick victory since I've copied a Crystal Shard with Phyrexian Metamorph and have Eternal Witness in hand (and Survival on the field). The Crypt makes this rather tricky however as both my Time Warp and Temporal Manipulation are in my GY. So I pitch Eternal Witness for something, and make a play that forces the monoblue player to Tormod's Crypt me (I think I tried to destroy it). In response I Chord of Calling for Karmic Guide fetching Eternal Witness, getting back Time Warp, go infinite turns and win.
So despite having to play around counters and GY hate all game I thought the deck was fun to play. I just really with there was a Craterhoof Behemoth to save me from all the hassle.
I own a force of will and honestly I am not that impressed with it in 3 color decks that dont play draw / go. I find it a lot harder to have the blue card to exile for its alt cost in a 3 color that isn't blue heavy. I am more keen on the pact but I also dont see a lot of mass LD so take that with a grain of salt I guess. I run force in my Derevi list but that plans to play draw / go more so thats the sort of place I like force more since the option of paying 5 right then is usually preferred over paying 5 on my turn.
It sounds like it was a fun game all in all. I have in the past considered craterhoof but you really want to have like 3-5 creatures in play as a minimum to justify him in my thinking. I could see it being something that could be considered as an addition but I honestly kill a lot of people with just Jenara beats and random swords / extra turns. It sounded like a fun game though
I also managed to pick up like 3 foils for my deck. The dang project will never be done at the rate I am going with it lol.
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[Modern] Allies
I agree on the Pact of Negation but I don't have one so FoW seemed like a reasonable fill in. It was in my hand at the end of the game and either would have been fine at least in that game.
It doesn't necessarily need to be Craterhoof Behemoth but I was hoping for a little clearer path to a quick victory. I was able to find it eventually but my meta is not one where you want to be trying to kill people with creature beats over the course of several turns. Jenara would have been really helpful but I had mana issues early and once those were resolved it just felt like I always had stronger plays to make. I was also really wanting to see a Stifle effect (for the Crypt) but I can understand not running one, it just would have been really nice to have that particular game.
I'm trying to foil out both my cubes and I started from scratch...no sympathy from me
Ephara, God of the Polis I got her in play one of the three games and I was very pleased by the draw she gave to me. It is a little bit awkward though just in the fact that you are always trying to hit a creature ETB on all of your turns but trying to space them out so you have creatures next turn too so it can get a bit wonky in that means. It did end up feeling sort of like a Phyrexian Arena though as I was fairly consistently hitting cards each turn. It is a little bit awkward because it doesnt care about hitting more than one creature a turn though so it was hard to really abuse but I enjoyed her so far.
Karametra, God of Harvests between the trigger here and the trigger for Ephara I think Karametra's triggers were a lot easier to manage as I could dump a few critters in one shot when I got her. I also really enjoyed having Top when I had Karametra in play as I was using her as a means to hit lots of lands and just grab the best of my topdeck each turn. I managed to get her into play around like turn 7 one game and I think I probably hit 7 - 10 lands with her. There were several turns that involved just chaining a few cheap creatures and clamping them off and what not to just power through my deck. I can still see some concerns about seeing her as a topdeck when the game isnt going so well but she adds a lot of synergy to the deck and was doing great things for me so far in my testing.
Conjurer's Closet - its been a little clunky so far. I still like Venser Planeswalker far more because of his deadly emblem option but I probably need to test more still.
Of the three cards so far, I have had the best results from Karametra, God of Harvests just because I can attempt to power through all of my creatures essentially as fast as I want and hit extra value from each of them. I dont have a lot of results from them yet though so I just have to get more results and see how things work out.
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[Modern] Allies
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
I am not really sold one way or another but I would be interested to know why you like shard more. I dont really see Vedalken Mastermind working out since its on a stick and thus would be more fragile + have summoning sickness.
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[Modern] Allies
I also feel that were I to pilot this deck a lot I would definitely gravitate towards infinite turn combo as my main path to victory and the Shard is better at setting you up during your main phase instead of getting your walk EOT with the Closet.
Mastermind you are probably correct about but I like to keep him in mind for creature heavy builds as a tutor target.
My results with Karametra, God of Harvests have been better than those with Ephara, God of the Polis so far but thats in part just because it is difficult to break Ephara outside of having a Sacred Mesa or something. I saw Conjurer's Closet at one point with a top peek and just shuffled it away.... I probably need to find a replacement as I just haven't been very excited for it so far.
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[Modern] Allies
you might want to consider Venser, the Sojourner not only is is first ability good for Ephara, but you can always ultimate or make jenara unblockable.
Gods and answers to them - its a little bit of a meta call I think. So far I haven't had too much of an issue with them but I suppose of them Purphoros would likely be the most concerning of them to me. It is possible to add Return to Dust, Oblation, and or Unexpectedly Absent as answers to them but the big thing to ask is which are being issues for you. Opponents getting extra value out of their gods is annoying and can make the attrition game harder to do but I think its still a little bit of a meta call as to how much of a problem they are. For me currently, I haven't had too much of an issue with the gods but occasionally a really solid hand on a Purphoros will become an issue for me as I dont run a lot of lifegain in here.
He is in the list already. He does good work as I like his flicker and his ult is amazing.
So.... Conjurer's Closet is something I haven't been too happy with. I am contemplating its replacement right now but dont have anything nailed down. I could see myself going with some sort of vague answer like Oblation or another vague tutor like Wargate but I could also see myself just rolling Coiling Oracle back into the list and seeing where that goes. I dont really have anything nailed down but would be interested in input.
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[Modern] Allies
oh, i haven't checked in a while. then @ISB why not more gods, like Heliod, god of the Sun
Heliod just doesn't have enough value in his abilities generally speaking for my own like. Vigilance + tokens is something that I dont really value much in this list although it would make it easier to attack and defend with Jenara generally speaking I can out clock anyone who might want to swing back at me and if I am not already attacking them with Jenara they usually dont want to give me a reason to turn her their way. I really like Heliod in my Derevi list but that's because vigilance plays a different role as does the commander there.
I have toyed with the idea of all of the Theros gods in here and none of the mono color gods fit well enough that I would want to include them. They are resilient and I will give you that but I dont get enough value out of them often enough.
EDIT: really offtopic but I had a game last night where I spent most of the game ramping up lands with Karametra. I then had a turn where I got to untap with just Jenara, a persisted Glen Elendra, and lands and I proceeded to kill 4 opponents outright from there chaining extra turns with lolz mana and a Sword of Feast and Famine lol. I brought Jenara up to one turn hitting opponents then tutored Prime Speaker Zegana in to draw me like 30 cards and chained extra turns FTW lol. Karametra has ended up providing far better ramp for me than Sylvan Primordial ever did for me in here.
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[Modern] Allies
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[Modern] Allies
If you were to reduce this list, or make a list similar to it, that is just blue and white, who would you make the general? I was thinking Ephara, God of the Polis.
The reason I ask is because I have been playing your deck list for quite a long time now, and really appreciate how awesome it is, but my brother and I, who share a collection, are breaking down are other commander decks and making a deck for each of the ten dual colors.
Thank you, for your assistance and for the awesome list I have been able to appreciate over such a long time!
EDIT: Just bought several pimp alters off of gals from his Kamahl deck. I am looking forward to more pimp soon
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[Modern] Allies
It is possible to use it as a means to protect a creature from removal or repeatedly flicker itself for a god but I think Stonecloaker would be a more reasonable addition in either case since it costs the same mana, has less restriction on bounce, and has graveyard hate attached. It might push Stonecloaker as something more viable than Scavenging Ooze though potentially since I added two gods though. Its something I would need to give some thought.
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[Modern] Allies
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Animar can be annoying but like you said. His biggest advantages in this matchup are his speed and protection from a lot of our spot removal. Just do what you have to to slow him down until you can stabilize generally. I would say you can probably get away with chump blocking him and racing him with Jenara too as a possibility.
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[Modern] Allies