Hey, so I've made some changes to the deck and it's been running extremely smoothly. Honestly the only things I can think of to really get it going perfect would be Demonic, Vampiric, Enlightened, and, maybe, Mystic tutor just to really ensure I'm never not doing something unfair
Here's the list so far. I'm really enjoying Muddle the Mixture with Grim Monolith, and Power Artifact. Really closing out so many games.
So really, cut the eggs, cut a few of the "cuter" interactions. So far I've really liked the Mishra's Bauble/Salvaging Station. I've been able to draw upwards of 7 cards off of a Wrath for each of the Station triggers. Grim Monolith is working really well, as is Power Artifact. I find Staff of Domination is terrible when you've got infinite mana to drop your entire deck to. Haven't gotten a ton of testing out of unstable Obelisk/Commander's Sphere, but from what I've seen they're doing alright so far.
I cannot recommend enough that you run Sun Titan in this sort of list. He recurs things that you'll usually have a tough time getting back like Necropotence, Animate Dead and Detention Sphere was well as half the other pieces your deck abuses. I'd test him over Blightsteel, who, in my experience, doesn't perform well in multiplayer as he's rarely the most threatening creature on the table.
Okay, I'll definitely give him a try. Right now I really enjoy having something that shuffles back into my library when I lose it. I'll start testing Sun Titan, though.
I really like Reality Shift but that's a meta choice because I deal with pro-white. Could be cool to mess with stuff like Mystical Tutor. The extra mana is a drag and I've been cutting mana costs everywhere I can so we'll see. I am also back to being a little more glass jaw and its workinng well again. How many run Mind's Eye or Rhystic Study? I kind of want one more permanent that gives me more draw value than a cantrip.
Ability one: Nice, can't complain about this one, except that unless you get Ugin out early, it's reach is going to get significantly smaller.
Ability two: Not bad. Nice sweeper, and being scalable is wonderful. Could potentially backfire against our own mana rocks though.
Ability three: in a more PW focused build, one in which you're capable of manipulating the number of loyalty counters via proliferate or other means, this ability is going to be wonderful. However, it's rare we see PW abilities fire in most games, so this is a creamscicle dream at best.
Cost: 8 mana is to be expected for something like this. Being colorless is super nice.
Compared to Karn Liberated: I feel like Karn puts you farther by denying your opponent valuable resources. Karn's ability to target lands also makes him more powerful IMHO. Their final abilities are irrelevant, but Karn's is going to cause much bigger headaches and tilt, whereas Ugin can put you father ahead in the game.
Between the two, I recommend playing both if you can, but Karn is still the superior choice as of right now.
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I've played sharuum without any form of counter magic for roughly 3 years.
Sharuum doesn't need it if you've enough redundant recursion engines. Doing that actually enables you to bait their counters, which is preferable to facing them when trying to resolve Open the Vaults or something similar.
I've been running Silence, Orim's Chant in their place. I find them to be more effective, as it makes counter-mages have to A) Have two spells in hand, one for Silence/Chant and another for what's coming, or B) not counter Silence/Chant and pray I'm not bluffing.
Counter magic is a great linear problem solver in a format without a lot of linear problems.
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Maybe I'll try Silence over Swan Song but Pact of Negation, Force of Will and Mana Drain seem irreplaceable. However, this conversation made me slot in Gitaxian Probe over Arcane Denial. The peek effect has been very relevant against control players and has helped me in guiding my tutors or if I need to draw out a opponent's counter or grab my own. 98 cards and 38 life has always worked for me as it seems I'm one of the only players here who doesn't have that late game top. I really want to try it, but Dark Confidant and Ad Nauseam have been such houses I can never bring myself to taking them out. Plus they're both foil...
I dropped counter magic within the first year of my playing the deck. The recursive engines allow you the ability to play through counter magic as opponed to playing around it. When your engines overlap such that a mana rock can threaten to go infinite, even the smallest spells become must-counter/ must answer cards, allowing you to outgrind everyone.
I kid you not: when I pilot my deck at a table and resolve mulligans, It's like playing poker except that I'm always opening with pocket aces. I've already won, and I'm playing to not give up the win as opposed to trying to earn one.
Many years ago, when I had there divulges combo draw engines, like ad Nauseum and Necrologia, there were too many choke-points in the cabin of me trying to combo off. Not anymore.
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I've been an avid fan of artifacts ever since I came back to magic about a year ago (played from unlimited until Mirage/Visions and then took a break). That being said once I discovered the commander/EDH format, I knew I wanted to play an artifact deck! I initially toyed with a Daretti deck, but it just doesn't have the punch I was hoping for (particularly in multiplayer). That's when I stumbled upon this thread. I would like to ask the wise and varied brain trust here:
Assuming price/possession of cards was no option, what would the most competitive Sharuum deck look like?
From reading this long thread it seems that the combo deck kills the quickest and can go the distance, as long as you have enough redundancies built in. If that's the case that is the one I would build. Your advice to a novice Sharuum fan/player (though certainly not a novice magic player) would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. Is there a good thread on Daretti out there? I still haven't given up on that little guy!
I'd say Jostin's list which is in the first post is one of the most tuned lists out there. I believe at this point the Sharuum community has decided that the grindy combo/engine deck is better than speed combo because of it's resilience.
My advice to any Sharuum player is just to play the deck a bunch. The deck has SO many interactions and engines that it's impossible to list them all.
I believe at this point the Sharuum community has decided that the grindy combo/engine deck is better than speed combo because of it's resilience.
Probably depends a lot on your meta and whether you're playing more 1v1 or multiplayer. Speed combo has can pull of a win once in a large multiplayer game, but often afterwards will get hated off the table again and again. I also like the engine/control style deck because of it plays differently every game, which is more entertaining to play/build over a long time, not necessarily because it's more successful at generating wins
I believe at this point the Sharuum community has decided that the grindy combo/engine deck is better than speed combo because of it's resilience.
Probably depends a lot on your meta and whether you're playing more 1v1 or multiplayer. Speed combo has can pull of a win once in a large multiplayer game, but often afterwards will get hated off the table again and again. I also like the engine/control style deck because of it plays differently every game, which is more entertaining to play/build over a long time, not necessarily because it's more successful at generating wins
Winning because you didn't get auto-hated off the table for being speed combo is a thing, right?
I wouldn't say that the engine version of the deck would be any better than speed combo/control. Both have their advantages which play to or against certain styles of play and meta. I would say that the speed/combo deck would be easier to learn and master since it is much more linear, but at that point you may as well just play Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Yeah I missed being combo centric. I'm moving back towards that to try it out now that I have my higher end cards like the counterspells, Mana Crypt, and Mishra's Workshop. Thopter Assembly doesn't seem as bad of a combo piece now that I can potentially have 5 mana turn one.
hey jostin. do you tend to use transmute artifact as a way to find a last combo piece or do you find yopurself using it as a way to find a way to not die/get value (finding ensnaring bridge or salvaging station)?
Generally speaking, I'll use it to further my board position without compromising other things it if goes. An example would be string an Ensnaring Bridge when I have 2 or more planeswalkers on the table. To get to them, they have to go through bridge. If they hit bridge, my planeswalkers are still intact, and I've ticked up my planeswalkers another notch. Sometimes the best use it to pop Sword for Thopter foundry, to sac an artifact land and start the army. Sometimes it's just a UU entomb, to get Sphinx or my tucked general in the yard, and sometimes, I just use it to reset sculpting steel so I can combo off. It's very aquamorphous, and is usually one of the deck's catch-all solutions, as a tutor should be.
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I've really love Transmute Artifact for the same reason. It does so much work in the deck. Recently I used it as a UU entomb for Sphinx, to bring it back with Sharuum.
Jostin, not sure if this has been asked before, but what's your take on Engine Sharuum vs Speed combo Sharuum?
Great advice, guys. Anyone get some testing in with Ugin yet? Card is so dang cool, but not sure I wanna drop 30 on it just yet. Rather see if it tanks a bit. Btw, i play exactly jostin's deck except without the mishra's workshop, though i'm gonna drop a chunk of my tax return on getting one.
I've really love Transmute Artifact for the same reason. It does so much work in the deck. Recently I used it as a UU entomb for Sphinx, to bring it back with Sharuum.
Jostin, not sure if this has been asked before, but what's your take on Engine Sharuum vs Speed combo Sharuum?
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he has mentioned several times that he much prefers engine Sharuum. It literally always has inevitability, to the point where you can safely say that the deck doesn't lose to anything other than not having enough time. I much prefer the engine myself. Its also worth noting that engine Sharuum is by no means a slow deck! When you start cranking your gears on turn three, there isn't much that can be done by anyone else other than sit around and wait to lose.
I think I'm the only one who runs combo but it is a meta choice. I enjoy the filtering and cantripping too much to leave the variant. It still works great and I'll be taking it to PAX east to see how it fairs competitively
Avvina, your Tasugir deck is great and exactly where mine will head once its done its time as a "spirit of edh" deck. The doomsday package was inspiring.
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Oh, man. Apparently I forgot to add that to the list. I do have Intuition and it's been so sick.
Okay, I'll definitely give him a try. Right now I really enjoy having something that shuffles back into my library when I lose it. I'll start testing Sun Titan, though.
I tried it, and honestly wasn't impressed. Doesn't really do enough in combination with the rest of our deck.
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Really we're looking for the next Trading Post or Salvaging Station to really shake the deck up.
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On Ugin:
Ability one: Nice, can't complain about this one, except that unless you get Ugin out early, it's reach is going to get significantly smaller.
Ability two: Not bad. Nice sweeper, and being scalable is wonderful. Could potentially backfire against our own mana rocks though.
Ability three: in a more PW focused build, one in which you're capable of manipulating the number of loyalty counters via proliferate or other means, this ability is going to be wonderful. However, it's rare we see PW abilities fire in most games, so this is a creamscicle dream at best.
Cost: 8 mana is to be expected for something like this. Being colorless is super nice.
Compared to Karn Liberated: I feel like Karn puts you farther by denying your opponent valuable resources. Karn's ability to target lands also makes him more powerful IMHO. Their final abilities are irrelevant, but Karn's is going to cause much bigger headaches and tilt, whereas Ugin can put you father ahead in the game.
Between the two, I recommend playing both if you can, but Karn is still the superior choice as of right now.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
Sharuum doesn't need it if you've enough redundant recursion engines. Doing that actually enables you to bait their counters, which is preferable to facing them when trying to resolve Open the Vaults or something similar.
I've been running Silence, Orim's Chant in their place. I find them to be more effective, as it makes counter-mages have to A) Have two spells in hand, one for Silence/Chant and another for what's coming, or B) not counter Silence/Chant and pray I'm not bluffing.
Counter magic is a great linear problem solver in a format without a lot of linear problems.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I kid you not: when I pilot my deck at a table and resolve mulligans, It's like playing poker except that I'm always opening with pocket aces. I've already won, and I'm playing to not give up the win as opposed to trying to earn one.
Many years ago, when I had there divulges combo draw engines, like ad Nauseum and Necrologia, there were too many choke-points in the cabin of me trying to combo off. Not anymore.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I've been an avid fan of artifacts ever since I came back to magic about a year ago (played from unlimited until Mirage/Visions and then took a break). That being said once I discovered the commander/EDH format, I knew I wanted to play an artifact deck! I initially toyed with a Daretti deck, but it just doesn't have the punch I was hoping for (particularly in multiplayer). That's when I stumbled upon this thread. I would like to ask the wise and varied brain trust here:
Assuming price/possession of cards was no option, what would the most competitive Sharuum deck look like?
From reading this long thread it seems that the combo deck kills the quickest and can go the distance, as long as you have enough redundancies built in. If that's the case that is the one I would build. Your advice to a novice Sharuum fan/player (though certainly not a novice magic player) would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. Is there a good thread on Daretti out there? I still haven't given up on that little guy!
My advice to any Sharuum player is just to play the deck a bunch. The deck has SO many interactions and engines that it's impossible to list them all.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Probably depends a lot on your meta and whether you're playing more 1v1 or multiplayer. Speed combo has can pull of a win once in a large multiplayer game, but often afterwards will get hated off the table again and again. I also like the engine/control style deck because of it plays differently every game, which is more entertaining to play/build over a long time, not necessarily because it's more successful at generating wins
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Jostin, not sure if this has been asked before, but what's your take on Engine Sharuum vs Speed combo Sharuum?
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he has mentioned several times that he much prefers engine Sharuum. It literally always has inevitability, to the point where you can safely say that the deck doesn't lose to anything other than not having enough time. I much prefer the engine myself. Its also worth noting that engine Sharuum is by no means a slow deck! When you start cranking your gears on turn three, there isn't much that can be done by anyone else other than sit around and wait to lose.
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Avvina, your Tasugir deck is great and exactly where mine will head once its done its time as a "spirit of edh" deck. The doomsday package was inspiring.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU